From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #414 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 14 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 414 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Comparisons [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Comparisons [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: the meaning of history [Bobsart48@aol.com] The way I see it, Shine... [Monika Bogdanowicz ] How does "Shine" fit into the catalog? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Subject: another stereo question NJC [Em ] Re: SV: dog eat dog [rian afriadi ] the great Joni Mitchell ["mike pritchard" ] Re: oh my ["Rachel Avery" ] Another English lesson : A Case of You [rian afriadi ] for listees w/ little kids, now Joni on PBS [Patti Parlette ] I just noticed something really interesting! ["Owen Duff" Subject: The way I see it, Shine... It seems some of the critics/people out there who basically dismiss Shine, do so because of the nature of the lyrics. Because Shine is more a statement on society and its disintegration, the way it looks in my opinion, the lyrics are the problem for some of these people. Would you agree? But then when you think about it, it's really sort of funny that lyrics of a political nature or with social implications are thrown away so easily. There are millions of lyrics written that are not political or anything like that but you still may not agree with them. However, just because you may not agree with whatever the songwriter is saying about "love" or "life" doesn't mean you don't give it a chance and decide you don't like the song. It's the complete opposite as soon as you make any sort of statement on society or politics in lyrics! My point is that a song can still be a good song despite what you relate to the lyrics. Does that make sense? My second point is how funny it is that as soon as anything political/about society enters the picture, it is dismissed by those who don't agree with it. But I suppose this has nothing to do with music at all. What are the topics you aren't supposed to discuss because of the heated arguments that can ensue? Politics. Religion. Abortion. - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:03:56 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: How does "Shine" fit into the catalog? There have been some great moments after WTRF... 82 WTRF 85 DED 88 Chalk Mark 91 Night Ride 94 TI 96 hits & misses 98 TTT 00 BSN 02 T'log 03 Geffen box 04 TBoS & Dreamland 05 SoaPG 07 Shine "Urge For Going" finally made it onto an album. "Harlem in Havana" is a latter day favorite. I like Vince Mendoza's Copeland-flavored take on "Judgement of the Moon and Stars". I can hear what she put into DED because of the Geffen box. There's the remix of "Paprika Plains" too. That said, "Shine" is my favorite Joni Mitchell album since WTRF, 25 years ago. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:21:28 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: re: for listees w/ little kids..... Patti wrote: > Dear Friend Barbara: > Thank you so much for sharing this information. Das ist ganz wunderbar! (German for "That is totally awesome!") (I hope that is correct, Moni und Marion!) This takes care of three out of ten breakdowns of this century that were outlined recently by Ela Gandhi in her lecture at UConn on October 4th. ("The Crises of the 21st Century - Some Gandhian Solutions") (clipped) > More non-violence programs for children. Yes! This is our ticket to ride! "Promoting mutual respect and understanding." The children will be exposed to other languages and cultures (preventing xenophobia) and will see that there is more that unites us than divides us. Children are like sponges at this age, empty little vases/beakers/teapots/whatever that get filled up with whatever we put in them. This is good stuff! (clipped) Thank you, Patti. I was somewhat concerned that some on the list might take offense at my 'promotion' of a workplace project. I can think of nothing more in the spirit of JM's sensibilities than this project we've been working on for 5-6 years - finally launching it out into the world. And yes, you 'get' it - it is precisely these concerns that gave birth to Panwapa - the cultre imbued with violence, war, intolerance, discrimination, isolation, incapacity to put oneself in the other's shoes - and a desire to inculcate in children the capacity for open-mindedness and wonder at the diversity of the world around them. Love of self and others. Extend the 'Street' to the entire globe. Proselytise, yes - but only for the best that is in and for children. > But alas: I'm trying to think of 4-7 year olds I know and I'm coming up pretty blank. .... (clipped) > Okay, I'm off to the races here. On your mark red ribbon runners.... Don't balk at putting that 2 year old in front of Panwapa. It is a colourful graphical environment. And like everything we do, it is meant to delight children, make them laugh, inspire their creativity. And encourage parents to share an experience with their child, teaching through the interaction, but also learning *about* their child. The first step is to create your own image - hair, clothing, house - from a variety of multicultural images available for drop'n'click. > Seriously though, thank you again Barbara. This is a great thing and I will spread the word. And you got my painted ponies going up and down this morning. My kids grew up watching Sesame Street. We can't return, we can only look, behind from where we came, and now I am returning to myself sprinkling Cheerios on their little play tables and singing Sesame Street with them again. Peace, Patti P. (clipped) You remember the words to the theme song!!! :-))) How lovely! Hmmm ... wouldn't it be great to have Joni return to perform .... on Sesame Street, with our marvelous Muppets???? To have kids sing along with her and their 'pals'???? And have a sharp upswing in adults tuning in to watch as well...... ;-) B ****** Hello to under-7 children around the world, from Polkadot-shoes in New York City!!!! I have something new for you to try! Sesame Workshop, not-for-profit producer of Sesame Street, is celebrating the launch of one of its latest initiatives, Panwapa. (clipped) from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:59:00 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: another stereo question NJC Short version: Set "Loudness" to zero and ignore it. Details: As you turn down the volume, your ears do not hear bass as well. A "Loudness control" adds bass when you listen at lower levels. It should be called a "Quietness control". Most amps have a switch, and Loudness compensation is either on or off. But you have a rotary knob for Loudness on your receiver, and they usually work like this: When you listen to Pearl Jam at full volume, you don't need loudness compensation, so keep it at "0". When you want quieter sound, use the Loudness control to turn it down. As you turn it counter clockwise, it does 2 things 1.) It reduces the sound level overall and 2.) Boosts the bass Jim >was wondering if someone could explain (briefly) the difference between the "loudness" knob and the regular volume knob?> >The "loudness" knob goes from "flat" (0) and turns counter clockwise to "-10" which also says in little letters "-30 decibels". The it has a big knob which is the regular "volume" knob.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:14:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Subject: another stereo question NJC Great advice, Jim. Always turn it off, or set to zero for best listening. Jerry Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Short version: Set "Loudness" to zero and ignore it. > > Details: As you turn down the volume, your ears do not hear bass as > well. A > "Loudness control" adds bass when you listen at lower levels. It should > be > called a "Quietness control". > > Most amps have a switch, and Loudness compensation is either on or off. > > But you have a rotary knob for Loudness on your receiver, and they usually > work like this: When you listen to Pearl Jam at full volume, you don't > need > loudness compensation, so keep it at "0". When you want quieter sound, > use > the Loudness control to turn it down. As you turn it counter clockwise, > it > does 2 things > > 1.) It reduces the sound level overall and > 2.) Boosts the bass > > Jim > >>was wondering if someone could explain (briefly) the difference > between the "loudness" knob and the regular volume knob?> > >>The "loudness" knob goes from "flat" (0) and turns counter clockwise to >> "-10" > which also says in little letters "-30 decibels". The it has a big knob > which > is the regular "volume" knob.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:18:25 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Re: The way I see it, Shine... I'm one of those who never cared for Joni's social/political lyrics. Not necessarily because I disagree with what she's saying, but because I don't think she has enough insight. It just sounds like ranting and raving to me. My wish is that she would stick to writing about what she knows best: herself. That said, I do like this album. I love to hear her at the piano, a big improvement over that god-awful synth guitar. And despite her more limited vocal range, she has created some beautiful melodies that are hard to forget. The production, by which I mean the sound quality, could have been better, and the piano more prominent. However, I would much rather have a slightly flawed album that was created mostly by Joni than a perfect one by a Big-Name Producer. I believe Joni said something like that herself back around the time of Clouds. For the record, I'm in the Don't Care For BYT camp. She could have updated it by dropping the DDT reference and include GM crops, terminator seeds, frankenfoods etc. I would have suggested it, but she never called. Doug Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > It seems some of the critics/people out there who basically dismiss Shine, do so because of the nature of the lyrics. Because Shine is more a statement on society and its disintegration, the way it looks in my opinion, the lyrics are the problem for some of these people. Would you agree? But then when you think about it, it's really sort of funny that lyrics of a political nature or with social implications are thrown away so easily. There are millions of lyrics written that are not political or anything like that but you still may not agree with them. However, just because you may not agree with whatever the songwriter is saying about "love" or "life" doesn't mean you don't give it a chance and decide you don't like the song. It's the complete opposite as soon as you make any sort of statement on society or politics in lyrics! > My point is that a song can still be a good song despite what you relate to the lyrics. Does that make sense? My second point is how funny it is that as soon as anything political/about society enters the picture, it is dismissed by those who don't agree with it. > But I suppose this has nothing to do with music at all. What are the topics you aren't supposed to discuss because of the heated arguments that can ensue? Politics. Religion. Abortion. > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:52:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Subject: another stereo question NJC you are a brilliant , brilliant man!!!!!!!!! :) thanks Lama, for the explanation. Em - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Short version: Set "Loudness" to zero and ignore it. > > Details: As you turn down the volume, your ears do not hear bass as > well. A "Loudness control" adds bass when you listen at lower > levels. It should be called a "Quietness control". > > Most amps have a switch, and Loudness compensation is either on or > off. > > But you have a rotary knob for Loudness on your receiver, and they > usually work like this: When you listen to Pearl Jam at full volume, > you don't need loudness compensation, so keep it at "0". When you > want quieter sound, use the Loudness control to turn it down. As you > turn it counter clockwise, it does 2 things > > 1.) It reduces the sound level overall and > 2.) Boosts the bass > > Jim > > >was wondering if someone could explain (briefly) the difference > between the "loudness" knob and the regular volume knob?> > > >The "loudness" knob goes from "flat" (0) and turns counter clockwise > to "-10" which also says in little letters "-30 decibels". The it has > a big knob which is the regular "volume" knob.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re: SV: dog eat dog No, Catherine, The dancer does not know the answer. Really. NP. The Pirate of Penance "she knows the answeeeeer..." "i don't knooooooow...." "she knows the answeeeeer..." "i don't knoooooow...." - ----- Original Message ---- From: Catherine McKay To: Marion Leffler ; Jerry Notaro ; rian afriadi ; Joni List Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:47:20 AM Subject: Re: SV: dog eat dog Don't ever be afraid to ask. Someone always knows the answer. Whether it's what kind of headphones to buy, or the meaning of a word or expression. I didn't know about the origin of the word "cynic" until Bene explained. It's so cool that there is always at least ONE person who has the answer. (Go ask the dancer.) Catherine - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:08:39 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: the great Joni Mitchell I was just looking up a reference to Peter Wood(s), co-composer, with Al Stewart, of 'The Year of the Cat'. One reference includes the following paragraph. http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/Diner/2674/wood_peter_a.htm >>The list of guest artists appearing is (taken from my videotape): Rundfunkorchester Berlin, Rundfunkchor Berlin, The Hooters, Scorpions, Ute Lemper, Cyndi Lauper, Thomas Dolby, Sinnead O'Connor, The Band, Marianne Faithfull, Rupert Everett, the great Joni Mitchell, James Galway, Bryan Adams, Jerry Hall, Paul Carrack, The Marching Band of the combined soviet forces in Germany, Van Morrison, Tim Curry, Albert Finney. The conductor was Michael Kamen.<< Interesting that the only one musician (guess who) has an adjective before the name, and it's 'great'. mike in barcelona np Where the streets have no name' - U2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:20:54 -0400 From: "Rachel Avery" Subject: Re: oh my Alright, someone who's been absent from the list longer than i has posted...so i figure i should just get on with it and post at least once before returning to lurkdom. It would be nice to join in regularly, but time is an issue - i'm away at university for music this year and very busy, it seems almost as much with an anti-war club as with practising and coursework. I've really enjoyed reading what everyone has had to say about Shine, and found myself agreeing with the majority. I picked my copy up the morning it came out, and listened right away. The starbucks nearby (that alone is something i'm not used to!) did do lunch and listen, and even though no one else seemed to be listening, i enjoyed what i could hear over the roar of latte machines. Of course i was apprehensive before pressing play the first time...but couldn't have been happier with what i heard. One Week Last Summer is so wonderful - sort of meditative but with intensity...it brought me to the piano that night. And then This Place...*so* *good* to hear. Her voice does sound wonderful. If I Had a Heart didn't grab me as much on the first listen, but it's really grown on me. The chords are really beautiful and intriguing - i especially love the bit around "we set our lovely sky, our lovely sky...on fire". There isn't a track i'd skip. I like the new BYT too - as far as updated lyrics, the new price of the tree museum won't have to be adjusted for inflation (just unprecedented changes to body plan) :P and leaving DDT might make people curious, perhaps enough to do some looking and find out that it's still used. I haven't been able to read everything, so sorry if everything has already been said...but her delivery just kills me. Reading the lyrics beforehand didn't really help get my hopes up, but lines like "where have all the songbirds gone" that has been discussed, and "my head is in my hands" make you drop whatever you're doing to just sit and listen. I also really like If, which was the one i was most unsure of before hearing, and she's right - she did make it better (of course). That week, i listened to it probably at least twice a day, and the only other album i listened to was Blue, once. That may be the longest i've gone without Randy Newman in a year, but when you have Shine, what else could you want? It was really nice that, the week after it came out, i walked into my skills class where there's always something playing beforehand (usually classical) to hear Shine. There's never time to chat with profs really but i did get a chance to briefly comment to him how good it was to hear, and it was evident he loves the album. Now i want to get some speakers up here so i'm not just listening on average headphones! ===== rachel "Seeing, contrary to popular wisdom, isn't believing. It's where belief stops, because it isn't needed any more." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:17:50 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Another English lesson : A Case of You OK. A case of you may be Joni's best song. I like the song. But still i don't understand the sentence "i could drink a case of you" what does joni mean with drinking a case of someone? All i understand is a case is 1. a container 2. something that is under investigation 3. issue if a case is a container or number 2 or number 3,,, then how could someone drink it? i know it's a shame. it's a HUGE shame singing this song more than thousand times while i can't understand the sentence "i could drink a case of you" oh God... someone help me..... _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:20:52 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: oh my SHINE!!! ET wrote: > It took 10 listens of Shine for me to conclude that this is my favorite > Joni Mitchell album EVER. > Hi ET, SHINE is home for me. It brings all of Joni's other albums together some how. The more I listen to it, the more I am moved by it... sometimes to tears. I have been listening to HOSL and Hejira in my car because I gave my car-copy of SHINE to a monk at a monastery. He told me he was a body gatherer in Vietnam and how some of the other American soldiers got hardened hearts and were cruel to the Vietnamese civilians... and how he confronted them by asking them if they felt strong for doing so and how wrong they were. When he said that, I immediately thought about "Strong and Wrong" and after our conversation I asked him if he knew of Joni Mitchell and sang him some of "Circle Game" to which he said something like, "yes, I remember her, she always had a lot to say in her songs and wasn't afraid to say it." I told him about SHINE and then gave him my copy. Anyway, listening now in the light of SHINE to HOSL and Hejira, I hear them differently. I don't know what it is exactly. Hard to explain. I feel closer to Joni than ever before because of SHINE. I hear her in a new light. She has made herself transparent on a whole new level in SHINE. Love, Laura ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:01:26 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Another English lesson : A Case of You On Oct 14, 2007, at 1:17 PM, rian afriadi wrote: > OK. > A case of you may be Joni's best song. > I like the song. > > But still i > don't understand the sentence > "i could drink a case of you" > > what does joni > mean with drinking a case of someone? A case of wine is generally 12 bottles of wine as opposed to just one or two. Joni says, "you are in my blood like holy wine, you taste so bitter and so sweet." as if the person she is singing about was actually wine. And so she is essentially saying she could drink 12 bottles of this "wine" and she would still be on her feet, which is open to interpretation but in essence, is pretty remarkable as most anyone who drank 12 bottles of wine would be passed out or possibly dead. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: oh my SHINE!!! Geez-Louise, Laura, and Others! That's so nice how you feel about Joni! Very touching, to me, especially all around my heart area. jeannie LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: ET wrote: > It took 10 listens of Shine for me to conclude that this is my favorite > Joni Mitchell album EVER. > Hi ET, SHINE is home for me. It brings all of Joni's other albums together some how. The more I listen to it, the more I am moved by it... sometimes to tears. I have been listening to HOSL and Hejira in my car because I gave my car-copy of SHINE to a monk at a monastery. He told me he was a body gatherer in Vietnam and how some of the other American soldiers got hardened hearts and were cruel to the Vietnamese civilians... and how he confronted them by asking them if they felt strong for doing so and how wrong they were. When he said that, I immediately thought about "Strong and Wrong" and after our conversation I asked him if he knew of Joni Mitchell and sang him some of "Circle Game" to which he said something like, "yes, I remember her, she always had a lot to say in her songs and wasn't afraid to say it." I told him about SHINE and then gave him my copy. Anyway, listening now in the light of SHINE to HOSL and Hejira, I hear them differently. I don't know what it is exactly. Hard to explain. I feel closer to Joni than ever before because of SHINE. I hear her in a new light. She has made herself transparent on a whole new level in SHINE. Love, Laura ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com - --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:56:39 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: for listees w/ little kids, now Joni on PBS Barbara wrote in part: "I can think of nothing more in the spirit of JM's sensibilities than this project we've been working on for 5-6 years - finally launching it out into the world. And yes, you 'get' it - it is precisely these concerns that gave birth to Panwapa - the cultre imbued with violence, war, intolerance, discrimination, isolation, incapacity to put oneself in the other's shoes - and a desire to inculcate in children the capacity for open-mindedness and wonder at the diversity of the world around them. Love of self and others. Extend the 'Street' to the entire globe. Proselytise, yes - but only for the best that is in and for children." I like it. I like it! Barbara again: "You remember the words to the theme song!!! :-))) How lovely!" Like Joni and GW, I cannot tell a lie. I remember most of them, but I googled to get them exactly right. Barbara again: "Hmmm ... wouldn't it be great to have Joni return to perform .... on Sesame Street, with our marvelous Muppets???? To have kids sing along with her and their 'pals'???? And have a sharp upswing in adults tuning in to watch as well...... ;-) " YES!!!! That is a "scathingly brilliant idea"! She could bring Marlin and Daisy to the Big Apple. Big Mama meets Big Bird! Maybe she and Marlin and Daisy could sing Circle Game or BYT or something. Chelsea Morning! The children could wear butterfly wings (wearing wings, they'd look so grand, wearing wings... ") and sing "We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden...." (My JMOCDed mind runneth over with ideas....) Oddmund just played Joni for children and it worked. The children would love her on Sesame Street! They've got the touch so gentle and sweet, and they wouldn't be critical. And Marlin and Daisy would have a ball. Night in the City would look pretty to them, and to Kilauren, too. A happy ending for Little Green. Yes, call her agent! You may say I'm a dreamer, but I think Joni would go for this. Especially if she is going to NYC anyway to be on Charlie Rose....ask his people when she is coming and then she'd only have to make one trip. We know she doesn't like those long flights. Charlie Rose says on his website: "I believe there is a place in the spectrum of television for really good *conversation* if is informed, spirited, soulful." She's all that. And how both sides now....shadows and light... Darkness Wonder makes it easy Darkness With a joyful mask Darkness She could be serious against the Charlies Rose's dark background, and then put on her joyful mask for the Sesame Street gang. She could fill the journey Of an hour With sixty minutes worth of wonder and delight. I can just hear her laughing with the children. She has such a great laugh! (NPIMH: her finest silver peals of laughter after that "Joni, you've got more class than Gomer Pyle and Richard Nixon combined" comment on MOA). Yes, bring Joni to PBS. Governing day day and night. That would be the best broadcasting tower for her, waving for us. Vive la Joan! Love, Patti P. P.S. If she comes, can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street? ; ) _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:17:29 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Another English lesson : A Case of You Hello Victor and Rian. I don't like adding religious tones to Joni's works, but here, when Joni sings, 'Oh, I could drink a case of you, darlin'. And I would still be on my feet I would still be on my feet...' (that's soooo beautiful) it conjures up of blood-red, purple and blue hues and lilac for a light contrast, in my mind, when Jesus told his disciples at the Last Supper to drink his blood, (meaning that since his blood was to be shed in about 48 hours,) as he raised the cup of wine in his hand, and from then on they were to drink the wine, in remembrance of him. Now, that's what I feel, of course, because I was brought up a Christian. My sister doesn't see it that way, and she's more Catholic than the pope. And to Rian, a few days ago, I recall reading one of your postings, wishing your friend, a presume, a Muslim, a good day to celebrate a holy day, I'm sure in remembrance of something that means very special, and I thought that was really awesome of you, rian. Any way, back in the late 70's and through the mid-80's, my best friend in the whole, wide world, was Persian (Iranian,) and he found this concept of drinking the blood of Jesus in wine, very unusual. He politely expressed that he found the idea cannibalistic. I understood where he was coming from. He eventually came to understand with time, the significance of drinking the dark-red wine in remembrance of Jesus, for all the blood he shed, during the Sabbath (Sunday) celebrations. If one is not exposed to the teachings of the New Testament, then it's incomprehensible. Anyway, that's just coming from my perspective. Joni's perspective, I do not know. Cheers, jeannie Victor Johnson wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 1:17 PM, rian afriadi wrote: > OK. > A case of you may be Joni's best song. > I like the song. > > But still i > don't understand the sentence > "i could drink a case of you" > > what does joni > mean with drinking a case of someone? A case of wine is generally 12 bottles of wine as opposed to just one or two. Joni says, "you are in my blood like holy wine, you taste so bitter and so sweet." as if the person she is singing about was actually wine. And so she is essentially saying she could drink 12 bottles of this "wine" and she would still be on her feet, which is open to interpretation but in essence, is pretty remarkable as most anyone who drank 12 bottles of wine would be passed out or possibly dead. Victor - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: for listees w/ little kids, now Joni on PBS You know, that Keb 'Mo and his little boy, do this most beautifulful, lively version of Big Yellow Taxi, I would assume mostly for kids? It's full of youthful joy and energies, I'm sure arising from his litlle boy's joy, as him and his papa, Keb 'Mo jam out to Joni. My nephews and nieces have all derived so much pleasure from that simple, yet profound message in youthful, energetic song, as they were/are growing up, with both Joni's and Keb 'Mo's and his little boys versions. jeannie Patti Parlette wrote: Barbara wrote in part: "I can think of nothing more in the spirit of JM's sensibilities than this project we've been working on for 5-6 years - finally launching it out into the world. And yes, you 'get' it - it is precisely these concerns that gave birth to Panwapa - the cultre imbued with violence, war, intolerance, discrimination, isolation, incapacity to put oneself in the other's shoes - and a desire to inculcate in children the capacity for open-mindedness and wonder at the diversity of the world around them. Love of self and others. Extend the 'Street' to the entire globe. Proselytise, yes - but only for the best that is in and for children." I like it. I like it! Barbara again: "You remember the words to the theme song!!! :-))) How lovely!" Like Joni and GW, I cannot tell a lie. I remember most of them, but I googled to get them exactly right. Barbara again: "Hmmm ... wouldn't it be great to have Joni return to perform .... on Sesame Street, with our marvelous Muppets???? To have kids sing along with her and their 'pals'???? And have a sharp upswing in adults tuning in to watch as well...... ;-) " YES!!!! That is a "scathingly brilliant idea"! She could bring Marlin and Daisy to the Big Apple. Big Mama meets Big Bird! Maybe she and Marlin and Daisy could sing Circle Game or BYT or something. Chelsea Morning! The children could wear butterfly wings (wearing wings, they'd look so grand, wearing wings... ") and sing "We are stardust, we are golden, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden...." (My JMOCDed mind runneth over with ideas....) Oddmund just played Joni for children and it worked. The children would love her on Sesame Street! They've got the touch so gentle and sweet, and they wouldn't be critical. And Marlin and Daisy would have a ball. Night in the City would look pretty to them, and to Kilauren, too. A happy ending for Little Green. Yes, call her agent! You may say I'm a dreamer, but I think Joni would go for this. Especially if she is going to NYC anyway to be on Charlie Rose....ask his people when she is coming and then she'd only have to make one trip. We know she doesn't like those long flights. Charlie Rose says on his website: "I believe there is a place in the spectrum of television for really good *conversation* if is informed, spirited, soulful." She's all that. And how both sides now....shadows and light... Darkness Wonder makes it easy Darkness With a joyful mask Darkness She could be serious against the Charlies Rose's dark background, and then put on her joyful mask for the Sesame Street gang. She could fill the journey Of an hour With sixty minutes worth of wonder and delight. I can just hear her laughing with the children. She has such a great laugh! (NPIMH: her finest silver peals of laughter after that "Joni, you've got more class than Gomer Pyle and Richard Nixon combined" comment on MOA). Yes, bring Joni to PBS. Governing day day and night. That would be the best broadcasting tower for her, waving for us. Vive la Joan! Love, Patti P. P.S. If she comes, can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street? ; ) _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct - --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: English lesson\A Case of You\a couple corrections\NJC I failed to mention, where I feel, listeners could question drinking all that wine notion, with, "How could anyone possibly drink a whole case of wine and still be on their feet and not be inebriated?," because I have been asked that question many times before, over the years. Be it a man or woman somebody loves and cherishes relates Joni's words with, or in my case, Jesus, is that I feel as if I could drink so much of their their love and goodness, that I can keep drinking and drinking that special holy wine, without the physical, staggering your feet drunk, but, in my case, spritually drinking all that wonderful wine from the vine, that I reach a spiritual ecstacy, the kind Teresa of Avila describes in her writings, which when I read was astonished with so many similarities in our feelings, like Joni's feelings, too. But, when I was young and fell in love, the significance of the song for me, was about some boy that I thought was really cool, kind, real, with a good heart and mind. Oh, and more thing, about my lop-sided grammar, which I apologize for, is that I realized that I write in English, with a great influence of the Spanish grammar style. I studied Spanish in Monterrey, MX and it was intense, and then I taught there, and I think I'm still there grammatically. I didn't realize I was doing that until we had a lister from Buenos Aires, talk about Joni and that was was waiting for Shine's release way down in that country I love. I saw the similarities. Thanks to our Argentine lister here. I was thinking I had something related to dyslexia or something. What's happening to me now, is that when I talk to the dogs\cats\animals, or joking around with my sisters or friends, I start talking in rhyme and it's just coming out from me without me wanting it to and it's getting bothersome because it's happening now in serious conversation!? One of my sisters answers me with these little jingles and ditties she's always been so good at, since she was a toddler, when we're fooling around with language. Oh, well, I'll figure something out to make myself clearer here on the JMDL. Thanks for listening. jean jeannie wrote: Hello Victor and Rian. I don't like adding religious tones to Joni's works, but here, when Joni sings, 'Oh, I could drink a case of you, darlin'. And I would still be on my feet I would still be on my feet...' (that's soooo beautiful) it conjures up of blood-red, purple and blue hues and lilac for a light contrast, in my mind, when Jesus told his disciples at the Last Supper to drink his blood, (meaning that since his blood was to be shed in about 48 hours,) as he raised the cup of wine in his hand, and from then on they were to drink the wine, in remembrance of him. Now, that's what I feel, of course, because I was brought up a Christian. My sister doesn't see it that way, and she's more Catholic than the pope. And to Rian, a few days ago, I recall reading one of your postings, wishing your friend, a presume, a Muslim, a good day to celebrate a holy day, I'm sure in remembrance of something that means very special, and I thought that was really awesome of you, rian. Any way, back in the late 70's and through the mid-80's, my best friend in the whole, wide world, was Persian (Iranian,) and he found this concept of drinking the blood of Jesus in wine, very unusual. He politely expressed that he found the idea cannibalistic. I understood where he was coming from. He eventually came to understand with time, the significance of drinking the dark-red wine in remembrance of Jesus, for all the blood he shed, during the Sabbath (Sunday) celebrations. If one is not exposed to the teachings of the New Testament, then it's incomprehensible. Anyway, that's just coming from my perspective. Joni's perspective, I do not know. Cheers, jeannie Victor Johnson wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 1:17 PM, rian afriadi wrote: > OK. > A case of you may be Joni's best song. > I like the song. > > But still i > don't understand the sentence > "i could drink a case of you" > > what does joni > mean with drinking a case of someone? A case of wine is generally 12 bottles of wine as opposed to just one or two. Joni says, "you are in my blood like holy wine, you taste so bitter and so sweet." as if the person she is singing about was actually wine. And so she is essentially saying she could drink 12 bottles of this "wine" and she would still be on her feet, which is open to interpretation but in essence, is pretty remarkable as most anyone who drank 12 bottles of wine would be passed out or possibly dead. Victor - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. - --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:06:23 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: The way I see it, Shine... My problem with the Shine lyrics are not that I don't agree with them (far from it!!), it's that I don't think they are as well crafted as some of her other lyrics. Although the more I listen, the more I realize that some of the lyrics are more complex than they appear at first blush. At 10:32 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote: > > My point is that a song can still be a good song despite what > you relate to the lyrics. Does that make sense? My second point > is how funny it is that as soon as anything political/about society > enters the picture, it is dismissed by those who don't agree with it. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:10:40 +0000 From: "Owen Duff" Subject: I just noticed something really interesting! I just was watching the 'Refuge of the Roads' DVD, and in the home movie about 20 minutes in, where Larry Klein is flicking through the channels in what I assume is a hotel room, he switches onto a channel that has a marching noise Joni uses in 'The Three Great Stimulants'. The noise in question comes in over the lines "Oh and deep in the night...", there's like a marching sound with an alarm bell ringing, and it must be from that home movie! Fascinating. Because I remember reading an interview where Joni bemoaned Thomas Dolby's presence on the album, and she mentioned that she wanted to use sounds from home movies she'd made. That's all! O Lycos email has 300 Megabytes of free storage... Get it now at mail.lycos.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:05:36 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Reading the news, and then along comes Joni! Reading the news, and then I turn the page and there is Joni! She's everywhere these day. Dontcha just love it? An article, and a picture of her hugging Herbie Hancock: http://www.courant.com/entertainment/music/hc-jonimitchell.artoct14,0,5426158.story So I run back to my computer to check our Library, and sure enough the article is already there. (Thanks, Les. You must be so busy these days!) BUT it's different than the one in my Hartford Courant. I hope you don't mind if I paste below the entire article from our Library. Hey, it's all Joni, plus I want to point out, fwiw, what was missing from the article in my Sunday paper. In my quick comparison (I may have missed more), I have surrounded with "*******" the sections that are not in my newspaper. Joni Mitchell's muse returns on 'Shine' Charles Gans [Associated Press] October 11, 2007 A few years ago, Joni Mitchell had rejected her musical muse, refusing to write or even play music as she devoted her life to painting, watching old movies on TV and reconnecting to the daughter she had given up for adoption in 1965. Now, at age 63, newly inspired by family, nature and anger at today's politics, Mitchell is enjoying an outburst of creativity. The iconic Canadian singer-songwriter, whose poetic verses on songs like "Both Sides, Now" have inspired countless musicians from Madonna to Wayne Shorter, has released "Shine," her first album of new songs in nearly a decade. On Sept. 25, Mitchell returned to the public eye as Starbucks' Hear Music label played her new 10-song album in 6,500 coffee houses. Later that evening, Mitchell found herself at the Manhattan premiere of the film "The Fiddle and the Drum" (scheduled for Oct. 22 broadcast on Bravo), an anti-war ballet based on her songs that she co-created with choreographer Jean Grand-Maitre of the Alberta Ballet. She then rushed to the gallery opening of an exhibition, entitled "Green Flag Song," of her triptychs. Focused on the themes "war, torture, revolution," they were created from ghostly green-and-white negative images photographed off her dying TV set from the History Channel, CNN and Turner Classic Movies. The next day, an ebullient Mitchell met up with jazz pianist Herbie Hancock, who shares her beliefs in Buddhism and bending music genres, for a free-flowing discussion over lunch with several writers. Hancock had just released "River: The Joni Letters," interpreting her songs through his jazz prism with the help of Norah Jones, Corinne Bailey Rae, Tina Turner and Mitchell herself. The Rock and Roll Hall of Famer says it wasn't difficult to put aside music for most of the past decade. She had her painting, which she could pursue without worrying about bean-counting record company executives trying to mold her image. "I was a painter first, but I got waylaid by the music - first as a hobby to make my smokes at art school," said Mitchell, speaking in a slightly husky voice as she chain-smoked American Spirit cigarettes, a habit she developed at age 9 after nearly dying from polio. "At the time, I just sang folk songs but then a tragedy occurred in my life. I had a daughter and I gave her up and that puts a big hole in a woman that's hard to explain. I was destitute ... and three years later I had a career and money," said Mitchell, whose first album, "Song to a Seagull," came out in 1968. "But I didn't like fame. ... I understood the price of it at an early age." Mitchell enjoyed her biggest commercial success in the early '70s as she exposed her emotional vulnerabilities on such albums as "Blue" and "Court and Spark," but she found the folk-pop sound too constraining for her complex lyrics. She turned to unorthodox harmonies, jazz and world music, and edgier social commentaries, starting with 1975's "The Hissing of Summer Lawns." *********"I did five albums, four with praise, and then for the rest of my career it was always unfavorable," said Mitchell, dressed elegantly in a black Issey Miyake outfit, her silvery blond hair down over her neck. "You're supposed to get a decade, the artist from the '60s, the artist from the '70s ... Then the industry tries to kill you off." Record company executives today, she said, "want clones ... They don't love music. They love golf and porno."********** Mitchell released her last album with new material, "Taming the Tiger," in 1998. Then she stopped writing new songs, or even playing piano and guitar. She also had become focused on building the fragile relationship with her newly found daughter and grandchildren. "I had gotten to hate music," Mitchell said. "I didn't listen to the radio ... for my own pleasure or put records on. I couldn't remember what I ever liked about it." *********Mitchell fulfilled her Warner Bros. contract with the orchestral albums "Both Sides Now" (2000) and "Travelogue" (2002) on which she sang jazz standards and her old songs like "Woodstock" and "A Case of You." Then she "slipped off" into retirement. "My life came down to being a granny and watching a lot of television," she said. "I thought, 'Oh, is this the rest of my life?'"********* Mitchell began to rethink her decision to quit music in 2005, after Starbucks Entertainment invited her to compile an Artist's Choice album of the recordings that most influenced her. She spent six months reviewing "everything that ever gave me a major buzz" - from classical (Debussy) to jazz (Miles Davis and Billie Holiday) to rock (Chuck Berry) and folk (Bob Dylan). Then, one summer's day in 2005, she found her muse again. She had spent the day outside her rustic stone home on her coastal property north of Vancouver, British Columbia, which she bought in 1969 as a refuge from the fast-paced Los Angeles scene. She could see the Pacific Ocean rolling in, a blue heron flying overhead, seals sprawled in the kelp, wild roses blooming. "I was going, 'This is so beautiful,'" she recalled. "That evening I went in and played this piece of music (on the piano) ... There was such a sense of well-being and gratitude." That piano melody ended up as the impressionistic, Debussy-inspired instrumental "One Night Last Summer," which opens "Shine." The lyrics and melodies began flowing. The song "Bad Dreams" developed out of a profound remark by her 3-year-old grandson, "Bad dreams are good in the great plan." "Night of the Iguana" and "Hana" reflect her passion for old movies. Other songs like "Strong and Wrong" grew out of the anger she felt over the current state of affairs: the war in Iraq, global warming, torture and illegal wiretapping. ********"I was mad at the government. Mad at Americans for not doing something about it," Mitchell said. "They were so quick to impeach Clinton for kinky sex and so slow to do something about ... the country turning into Nazi stormtroopers, and it's still smoggy. ... It was all that losing freedom and everybody just kind of oblivious, like what happened in Germany."********* But Mitchell's melodies on "Shine" are anything but angry. She updated her 1970 hit "Big Yellow Taxi" - her prescient environmental protest song - giving it a lighthearted French-circus music arrangement with some humorous accordion sounds. On "If I Had A Heart," she laments "Holy Earth/How can we heal you?/We cover you like a blight/Strange birds of appetite," but the tune itself is a gorgeous ballad. Mitchell created the music in the studio by herself with just her engineer, laying down synthesizer, piano and guitar tracks. She later brought in some guests including bassist and ex-husband Larry Klein; Bob Sheppard, who adds warm vibrato jazz saxophone solos; and James Taylor, whose guitar can be heard on the psalm-like title track. Mitchell's hiatus from music had allowed her to partially recover from the vocal nodules, compressed larynx and muscular degeneration of post-polio syndrome that she felt had limited her vocal range on her last albums. ******"I think she's singing better than ever myself," said Klein, her longtime musical partner, in a telephone interview. "Of course her voice has changed dramatically from her early records ... where she thinks she sounds like she was on helium." "This record was a very personal process for her," he said. "Something that she just had to do to pry open wherever the muse comes from inside her."******* Mitchell is particularly thrilled by her ballet, which premiered in Calgary in February, calling it "the most exciting thing I ever did." She served as artistic co-director, creating a video installation that included images of Earth shot from space and using slides of her politically charged green-hued triptychs in the set design. Mitchell feels the combination of dance, music and visual arts serve to make her complex lyrics more understandable. "It's a great visual aid," said Mitchell. "I'm a frustrated filmmaker. ... *********My songs are like little plays, you may have four or five emotional changes in the context of one lyric." Mitchell envisions more art exhibitions of the images from her dying TV set. She does not plan to perform publicly, but is optimistic about writing more music. "I've got some ideas ... It's up to the muse, right?"********** THE END I called my friend and neighbor Anne who is a writer/journalist to complain about the omissions and she patiently explained that a newspaper can edit out anything they want. I was especially perturbed at the omissions of the "I was mad at the government..." paragraph, thinking that the Courant cut that out because they endorsed GWB not once, but twice. (I believe that.) She also explained they they will cut out stuff to fit their space (to accomodate advertisements). I'll let it go, since there are much more egregious omissions in the media these days, and just be thankful that we have the JMDL, our best source for Joni news, and ALL the news that's fit to print. Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook  together at last. Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #414 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------