From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #400 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 2 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 400 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shiny Love Songs ["William Elliott" ] Too Much Land, Too Few People ["William Elliott" ] Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine [missblux@googlemail.com] The Anticlimactic Shine [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: radiohead fans NJC now artists we don't like [Em ] Re: The Anticlimactic Shine - njc [J Kendel Johnson ] Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni [RoseMJoy] Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc [Garret ] Re: Shiny Love Songs [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni [Bob.Mull] Re: NJC New Chanel Commercial ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Shiny Love Songs [ajfashion@att.net] Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor] Re: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni [Em ] Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc [motitan@aol.com] Re: Shiny Love Songs [motitan@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine [Michael Flaherty ] Shine-first impression [Dave Blackburn ] Re: radiohead fans NJC now artists we don't like [Catherine McKay ] one week last summer ["Marianne Rizzo" ] analogies, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] A couple Herbie comments [David Sapp ] Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc [Garret Subject: Shiny Love Songs RE: OK, here's a question (probably naive): do you all think we miss the love songs? I mean, her songs about love, in its many forms, have not only marked many milestones in my life, but probably shaped the way I, in restrospect, perceive some of my own relationships. Would Shine have been a very different CD had JM written a song that, perhaps restropectively, looked back on a relationship or a complicated romantic life? I'm sure those of us who have aged with her would probably have related to such a song. - - --Aleda Well, sadly it probably would have ultimately increased sales as most people would sooner listen to topics of love than to the dire state of the orb. A thematic masterpiece on romantic love in late middle-age: JM may still have that in her. But, let us face it, the romance of romantic love wanes with age; at least for most. The sheer wonder of it really does lie within the territory of the young (and the real young, not the young at heart). But, from within the crumbling confines of my graffiti ruins, I digress. Love songs on SHINE? No, I think not. However disappointed I am by SHINE, I will still listen to it - -- or even TTT or TL -- sooner than I will listen to WTRF (Chinese Cafe being the exception as well as, ironically enough, LOVE). I barely missed a step when JM turned her critical eye to the outside world in the mid-80s; loved DED and still do. Beat of Black Wings, Passion Play, Sex Kills, et al: these are masterpieces as effective as, say, My Old Man, A Case of You, or Help Me. And much more interesting. I really find her later work -- HISSING and beyond -- so much more compelling than what came before it. Whatever its problems may be, SHINE is not hindered by an absence of love songs. Click now and find the high paying trucking career you've been looking for!

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Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 01:56:57 -0700 From: "William Elliott" Subject: Too Much Land, Too Few People "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine ` RE: And lyrics like "There's just too many people now/tool little land" are simply embarrassing -- human beings might be engaged in gross abuse, mismanagement and poor distribution of resources and destruction of the environment, but is there solid scientific evidence that there are actually too many people on Earth?!!< KATE: EVER HEAR OF A PLACE CALLED CHINA? IF THERE ARE NOT YET TOO MANY PEOPLE ON EARTH, THERE SOON WILL BE. Physical Therapy Certification Training - Save online. Click now.

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Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:05:26 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine Yes! We miss the love songs! I was wondering if that guy (sorry I can't remember who it was) who was complaining about this CD being soulless is just missing the love songs. Sometimes you hear people saying that they find the songs where she sings about other people like Harry's House, less interesting. I think it's because when they are personal they are mostly about emotional crises and help you get over your own. It's as simple as that... Is what I think! She touched my heart and helped me get out of emotional misery - so when she says 'now let's take a look at other people's problems' I go 'oh no we were just having such a good time looking at MY heart...!' hehe... Bn Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:48:36 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine OK, here's a question (probably naive): do you all think we miss the love songs? I mean, her songs about love, in its many forms, have not only marked many milestones in my life, but probably shaped the way I, in restrospect, perceive some of my own relationships. Would Shine have been a very different CD had JM written a song that, perhaps restropectively, looked back on a relationship or a complicated romantic life? I'm sure those of us who have aged with her would probably have related to such a song. - - --Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:25:57 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: The Anticlimactic Shine It is a fact that we do not have the resources to feed and provide health care for everyone on this earth; I thought that was generally looked upon as the result of over-population. Combined with very bad allocation of resources, of course. But maybe this is not really a scientific statement, just the kind of thought that comes into your mind when you hear that the Mount Everest has been climbed by more than a thousand people. It's beginning to feel like there isn't a quiet space left here. When you find one you are surprised not to hear someone else's mobile phone going off. Bene Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:13:58 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine This isn't a comment on the record as I don't have it yet. Just a thought on one part of what you wrote. I imagine, that where Joni lives, it does appear as if there are too many people & not enough land. I don't think its meant as a scientific comment. I don't think Joni is a factual songwriter, she is an impressionistic one. > And lyrics like "There's just too many people now/tool little land" are simply embarrassing -- human beings might be engaged in gross abuse, mismanagement and poor distribution of resources and destruction of the environment, but is there solid scientific evidence that there are actually too many people on Earth?!!< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 04:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC now artists we don't like a friend of mine has latched onto the Issa phenomenon in a big way. Just a few months ago she'd heard of Jane Siberry but had no real connection. Now she is more or less addicted to watching Issa vids on YouTube. I don't get the attraction, but it seems to make her real happy. To me its like being an earth eater. Em - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Bob Muller wrote: > > > > lets > > people download from her website and choose what, if > > anything, they will pay.> > > > > I've heard her stuff. She'd have to pay ME. > > > > To each his own. I like her stuff and so do a bunch of > other people on this list. I guess she's not as > popular as Radiohead (as if!) and I haven't heard any > of her stuff as "Issa", but I liked her as Jane > Siberry. > > In for a penny, in for a pound. Just to stir up the > pot a bit, here's a list of people I never really > cared much for that everyone (OK, not everyone, but > you know what I mean - sometimes it sure seems like > it) seems to love: > - CSN (I tried, but I just couldn't do it) > - James Taylor (I like some of his stuff, but > generally find him too mellow boring for my taste. I > think I own a greatest hits CD but that's about it) > - Prince (like some of his songs, but can't stand > looking at him, so I can't listen to him without > seeing his leering face) > There are probably more, but that might be enough to > invoke a flame war if we weren't all so darn mature > around here, don't you think? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine - njc I'm really feeling curious now and eager to find some definitive source -- or at least a general scientific consensus -- on whether we and planet Earth are suffering because: a) we have reached a stage where there are literally, verifiably too many people for the resources "on board" to sustain human life or b) there appear to be adequate resources, but choosing to burn fossil fuels is polluting the planet, there's adequate food production but it's not being distributed to all who need it, and adequate health care professionals, training, technology and medicine are not being made available to all who need them because it doesn't appear to be financially profitable. Can anybody point me to solid sources of info on this? J missblux@googlemail.com wrote: It is a fact that we do not have the resources to feed and provide health care for everyone on this earth; I thought that was generally looked upon as the result of over-population. Combined with very bad allocation of resources, of course. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 04:17:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni hope no one is mortally offended that Joni is stuck with the folkies here. http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/video/2007/folkportfolio_video200711 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 07:26:18 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Too Much Land, Too Few People On Oct 2, 2007, at 4:56 AM, William Elliott wrote: > > RE: And lyrics like "There's just too many people now/tool little > land" > are > simply embarrassing -- human beings might be engaged in gross abuse, > mismanagement and poor distribution of resources and destruction of > the > environment, but is there solid scientific evidence that there are > actually > too many people on Earth?!!< > KATE: EVER HEAR OF A PLACE CALLED CHINA? IF THERE ARE NOT YET TOO > MANY PEOPLE ON EARTH, THERE SOON WILL BE. > The above statement was not written by Kate. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 07:37:41 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni I Love it! Thank you Em r. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:47:38 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc What have you been listenting to? I can see that a lot of people are listening to Shine, giving it a lot of attention, to the Herbie album and to Chaka Khan. What else are you spinning these days? I have been listening a lot to My Brightest Diamond. She was amazing live. Also Devendra Banhart, Fesit, Cat Power, Final Fantasy, Bjork, Joan as Policewoman, Jens Lekman, Sufjan Stevens, Joni, Tom Waits, Patti Smith, Nina Simone (oki, no surprises the last few i guess). And CSS and Fujiya and Miyagi are great too. Lots of others, but i'd say those are the biggies the last while. I deliberately marked this njc, thought it best GARRET NP - well, just the clicking and hammering of keyboards in a college computer room ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:06:41 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' Ok, so a 'mondegreen' is a misunderstood song lyric where the mind fills in some nonsense substitute lyric, when actual hearing fails. As in most of 'Louis, Louis. (If you don't know the origin of the term, you haven't been paying attention.) So I have always admitted to my Joni mondegreens. I thought I had been finished with them, but...I was listening this morning to the HOSL demo this morning (thanks tape tree!) and realized another one. In Dreamland, I had always transformed 'talking over a glass of rum' to 'talking over a glass sarong'. Silly? You bet! Ever see a glass sarong? anyway, in Connapen (NJ) Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:28:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: telling singers to sing Joni - cassandra wilson content NJC I saw Cassandra a couple years back at The Handlebar. VERY intense performance, and very subtle. I almost felt like I had to hold my breath while she was singing. And her albums are equally as good, at least every one that I have. Most folks will also recall that besides her cover of 'Black Crow' she did a nice version of Dry Cleaner on the TNT Tribute. Bob NP: Jefferson Airplane, "In The Morning" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:35:44 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' NJC - -------------- Original message from Chuck Eisenhardt : -------------- > Ok, so a 'mondegreen' is a misunderstood song lyric where the mind > fills in some nonsense substitute lyric, when actual hearing fails. As > in most of 'Louis, Louis. (If you don't know the origin of the term, > you haven't > been paying attention.) > > So I have always admitted to my Joni mondegreens. I thought I had been > finished with them, but...I was listening this morning to the HOSL > demo this > morning (thanks tape tree!) and realized another one. Mine isn't Mitchell; it's the Stones. For most of my life I thoiught the refrain in "Gimme Shelter" was "it's just a shadow world," rather than "it's just a shout away." I was mildy devastated when I learned the real phrase. I love "it's just a shadow world." Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:46:57 +0100 From: "Azeem Ali Khan" Subject: Another take on Shine Hi folks, I thought it was high time I resubbed, especially given that there's finally some new JC to talk about. Funnily enough, my first post didn't get through, and as I HATED Shine on first listen, perhaps that was a message to give it another try before posting again (though I think first impressions are often the ones that last). All IMO of course... Anyway, after 3 and a half listens, my impressions can be summed up as: Overall, not a great addition to her back catalogue - though as I'm of the opinion that she hasn't made a truly GREAT record since Mingus in 1979, that's not a surprise. Her voice is definitely sounding stronger and better than on the ghastly Travelogue, though to my ears it's still but a shadow of the lovely instrument it was. The lyrics? Very weak, for the most part. There's a good verse here, a couple of good lines there, but there's a lot of chaff too, and I can't bring myself to be satisfied with a few crumbs. Not one but two moans about cell phones; some very heavy-handed finger-pointing; a lift of a line from Ethiopia; and that painful "history - his story - do you see what I did there?" business. Her reading of If has divided opinion, which is no bad thing of course. My take is that, while I'm neither a lover of nor expert on Kipling, If is a fine piece, which says what it says very well. Joni's tinkerings bugged me on two counts: first, the extra verses sound like vain flailing at her critics, and enforces a sense of solipsism which I find unattractive. It's the flip-side of the self-examination which yielded such brilliant songs in her golden period. And second (and I realise this is a point particularly open to debate), I think the end of Kipling's poem is wonderful: "If you can fill the unforgiving minute/with 60 seconds worth of distance run/Yours is the Earth and all that's in it/And - which is more - you'll be a man, my son." I can't be the only one who finds Joni's ending woefully bathetic! Musically, there's some good stuff. I like Night of the Iguana a lot, and I dare say it's even better if you've read the novel. If I Had a Heart is nice (sorry to damn with faint praise), with that lovely chord change in the chorus. Some of the arrangements are very pleasing, although I find a little pedal steel can go a looooong way; and I agree with those who've objected to some of the synth washes. My main gripe is with the actual tunes. There's not one great melody here to these ears, and on a lot of the songs, she seems to be singing little riffs rather than a sustained melody. I remember a TV interview with Betty Wright many years ago where she gleefully 'fessed up that this was what she'd done with "Clean Up Woman" - there wasn't a tune as such, she just busked it. I'll listen to Shine again, but I will certainly skip through Hana, which I think is tripe, a horrible mishmash of sounds that just don't work together; the remake of BYT, which is utterly pointless, and replaces the original's vim and zest with artificial HRT - and I'll swear the strummed acoustic is sampled! And I'll skip If. The title song I'm in two minds about: it has a certain beauty (the resignation which several people have written about), but boy is it a long haul, with not much musical interest to sustain it. Joni was taking something of a risk by announcing that she was making a comeback in order to vouchsafe to us her thoughts on the state of the world - - it would have to have been pretty spectacular to live up to that! Then again, I've always found that her most profound songs are the most personal - - and the personal is political. Most of the reviews I've seen in the press have been positive. I wonder if she'll appreciate that... Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:48:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs That doesn't make much sense to me. I've NEVER bought an album based on what topic a songwriter was singing about and I doubt that people do that...pick up a CD, try and figure out the subject matter, and then decide whether or not to buy it. If any of you do engage in that kind of behavior I'd like to hear it. Besides, TTT's sales were not very impressive I'm sure, and she included lots of "Middle-age love songs" on it; Love Puts On A New Face, Crazy Cries, Stay In Touch, Man From Mars, and (sort of) Face Lift. I will be interested to see how the sales go for Shine, it seems to be getting much better exposure and reviews than TTT did. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Bride of Rain Dog" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:52:53 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni That was cool - VF has long been a solid supporter of Joni's work. I'm anxious to see the photos, the video shots were pretty dark. I guess people will always refer to Joni as a folksinger becasue it's easier to do that. Bob NP: Elvis C, "Everyday I Write The Book" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: NJC New Chanel Commercial Seems to be the thing right now to use indie folk and rock chicks sell in commercials, Ingrid Michaelson, Feist, Kitchell. I like the attention it has given their music. Now if they would only use the "original!" Jerry Cassy wrote: > Has anyone seen the new Coco Chanel Mademoiselle commercial? The one with > the > lady getting ready to go out in a red dress? The music in the background > is > "L is for the way you look at me" (not sure if that's the right name of > the > song) and it sounds a whole lot like Sonya Kitchell singing. It's not bad > for > a commercial. > > Want to see it too? It can be viewed from the following link: > > http://uma.chanel.com/home.php > > Warmly, > Cassy > > NP: Death Cab For Cutie - Prove My Hypothesis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:58:27 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs - -------------- Original message from "William Elliott" : -------------- > - --Aleda Well, sadly it probably would have ultimately increased > sales as most people would sooner listen to topics of love than to the > dire state of the orb. A thematic masterpiece on romantic love in late > middle-age: JM may still have that in her. But, let us face it, the > romance of romantic love wanes with age; at least for most. The sheer > wonder of it really does lie within the territory of the young (and the > real young, not the young at heart). But, from within the crumbling > confines of my graffiti ruins, I digress. Love songs on SHINE? No, I > think not. However disappointed I am by SHINE, I will still listen to it > -- or even TTT or TL -- sooner than I will listen to WTRF (Chinese Cafe > being the exception as well as, ironically enough, LOVE). I barely > missed a step when JM turned her critical eye to the outside world in > the mid-80s; loved DED and still do. Beat of Black Wings, Passion Play, > Sex Kills, et al: these are masterpieces as effective as, say, My Old > Man, A Case of You, or Help Me. And much more interesting. I really > find her later work -- HISSING and beyond -- so much more compelling > than what came before it. Whatever its problems may be, SHINE is not > hindered by an absence of love songs. I really wasn't suggesting Shine be filled with love songs, or even with conventional love songs, but I was curious if people who'd found it somewhat "flat" would have found it, well, less flat, had there been a song that addressed in some ways the complexities of the human heart in a dark time (not to sound too Matthew Arnold or anything). I should have clarified that by "love song" I meant something broader than her early work--as someone posted, I'd count Harry's House (as well as Edith and the Kingpin and Shades of Scarlet Conquering) as songs dealing with the complexities of the human heart. I still haven't listened to Shine enough to know how I feel about it--it often takes me a long time with JM. I am utterly in love with the Hancock album though. - --Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:01:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc Garret - glad you got intoxicated by My Brightest Diamond, one of my favorite CD's of last year. In a similar vein, I've been loving Feist's CD since it came out, and Amy Winehouse doesn't seem to want to come out of the player either. The new Joe Henry (his first since 2003) has also been getting lots of play and I'm loving the new CD by Prince, smarmy face & all. Me'Shell's latest is also smokin' hot. Spoon, Dinosaur Jr, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, Jason Isbell - all great. Nellie McKay's new one, not so much. I think I'm done with her. Shine continues to be mixed in with all of it and continues to delight me with each listen. Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "The Line" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:01:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' And that's OK, as long as you sing "I wrapped that flag around me, like a Dorothy Lamour glass of rum" to offset it. Bob NP: Ani, "You Each Time" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 06:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: neat little Vanity Fair vid, Annie Lebowitz - includes Joni - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > I guess people will always refer to Joni as a folksinger becasue it's > easier to do that. I think you're right about that. But in this instance, it does put her in fine company. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:24:31 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' I always thought that Richard had "tubes" in his eyes, while the songs he punched were dreaming. It's amazing how mondegreeens happen even when the lyrics are printed inside the record jacket. My favorite all time mondegreens are Creedence Clearwater's "There's a bathroom on the right" and Elton John's "Hold me closer, Tony Danza." I'm sure these are apocryphal, but they amuse me nevertheless. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:01 AM To: Chuck Eisenhardt Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: admits to another Joni 'Mondegreen' And that's OK, as long as you sing "I wrapped that flag around me, like a Dorothy Lamour glass of rum" to offset it. Bob NP: Ani, "You Each Time" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:43:19 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: failure notice/Richard NJC Curiouser and curiouser, the notice you reproduce below is not the same one you sent to the list earlier, wherein there is the faulty e-mail address: - --- MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com wrote: > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at yahoo.com. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following > addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > > : > 12.102.252.75 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 551 not our customer Giving up on 12.102.252.75. This is where I got that you were typing the wrong e-mail address. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of jeannie Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:36 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: failure notice/Richard Richard, I'm not paranoid. Where do you get I was typing in the wrong address? On the only private reply I ever sent Aleda, after one of her off-list e-mails to me, I just clicked "Send" and it came back, like this. I never typed in her address. I don't know it. This is not paranoia, it's just the way it is! Jean - --- MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com wrote: > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at yahoo.com. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to > the following addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it > didn't work out. > > : > Connected to 204.127.208.75 but sender was rejected. > Remote host said: 550-69.147.96.242 blocked by > ldap:ou=rblmx,dc=worldnet,dc=att,dc=net > 550 Blocked for abuse. See > http://www.att.net/general-info/rblinquiry.html > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > > Return-Path: > Received: (qmail 49785 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Sep > 2007 22:13:26 -0000 > DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; > s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; > > h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content - -Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; > > b=LncYcdnP52tX6/8mgv1vDxRK63U9/SJn1n6f4kTE58gZKNb40S8MGr9rAwDHlfrPLMMgruh8ud vqzG7H3mlXv4jy8fMcMQWtYFlHwxC3/E6qjz8rbxkHeNqECGEQvvx57J+9SRw2XsZ2pHyvLJhZT+ utZ9QMaCQxtv8kv/lhlc8=; > X-YMail-OSG: > dsC01tsVM1lR6LPXWC03wouPd2kTRVwJlES8KBGxI9_Ye3yl111wlamBDDV8QJbx4f9iaxdjl9X. 26pE.eQ8O0Q78bf2Z622235RbWJpovasxfUuUwHSvA-- > Received: from [24.174.180.95] by > web63015.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Sep > 2007 15:13:26 PDT > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:13:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: jeannie > Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: If, and all the > 'adaptations' NJC > To: ajfashion@att.net > In-Reply-To: > <093020072150.11149.47001A0A000C8FE600002B8D2160280651020107089C0E00060E@att .net> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="0-433773978-1191190406=:46507" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Message-ID: > <136038.46507.qm@web63015.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > > --0-433773978-1191190406=:46507 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > What does your mispelling of Hayden Herrera's last > name have to do with her stealing one of your > friend's boyfriends away? > > That's some sort of deflective device of yours, it > seems to me. > > You, as a human, do not disturb me, other than > your better than thou preachiness and persistence to > prove you are right without giving room to move > around. Too much rigidity for me! > > Let's just call it a day. I'm tired of this > nonsense. It's not fun to discuss with you these > issues concerning the lyrics and poetry and all that > other petty stuff that means absolutely nothing to > me. > > Enough annoyance for a week. > > I've got to go now! I am gonna go find Herbie > Hancock's album. Hopefully I can find a copy at > Target because it got late. Besides, there's still > so much for me to do before I can free myself into > my music and books. > > I heard an awesome, private recording of Herbie > and Carlos jamming together. It was incredible. > That's what I'd love to hear right now! > > Okay, bye, Aleda!! > > Jeannie > > Please let's just try to understand one another. > > > > > > > > ajfashion@att.net wrote: ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&c s=bz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:48:08 -0400 From: motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc What else are you spinning these days? - ------------------------------------------------------- ? Well there's always Joni.? This weekend I listened to DJRD quite a bit.? I really had an urge to listen to it and honestly just put it down the other day.? I also always listen to Neil Young.? That's a given.? You'll also see a lot of the Who and the Beatles going into my cd player as of late.? And of course there's Shine.? Honestly though, I've been playing a lot of my varied, mixed cds with artists ranging from Oasis to Roger Daltrey to Radiohead to CSNY to Pearl Jam to Stephen Stills to Jefferson Airplane.? I've been in a mixed mood lately.? Normally, you'd see a lot of Floyd being played as well but I haven't been in a Floyd mood lately.? - -Monika ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:53:52 -0400 From: motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs I think there will always be those people who will remember Joni for "Blue" and such confessional, painful songwriting as that. You know, the people who ONLY use Joni for their own therapy and treatment to sadness or whatever the case is. That is fine I suppose. It's better for Joni to be remembered for something than nothing at all. I'm sure if there were love songs on the album, the critics would have to find something else to bitch about. And you know, there will always be these people who just want Joni to write love songs and stay in that frame. Sadly, they will be missing out I think. There are some beautiful moments on Shine and songs like Harry's House are top notch in my opinion. There is some very vivid description in that song as well as beauty, intrigue, and insight. - -Monika ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 07:15:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine missblux@googlemail.com wrote: >>>Yes! We miss the love songs! I was wondering if that guy (sorry I can't remember who it was) who was complaining about this CD being soulless is just missing the love songs. Hmmm ... As I just told someone, I certainly like this album, but it's not one of my very favorites. I think the lyrics are good in themselves, but yeah, a "Man from Mars" (or whatever) would be nice. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:44:10 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Shine on mixed feelings Hi everybody, I think I'm well enough now to phrase some of my impressions of Shine - although so much has been said already I'm not sure I have anything new to add. (And thank you Bob, Jeannie, Bo and I hope I haven't forgotten anyone who wished me well. It's so good to know you care!). It has been very interesting to read everybody's take on Shine, and what a buzz it's been! Thank God I was sick, how would I have been able to keep up otherwise?:-) Before I put in my five cents I have to clear a few things: I'm not a musician and I haven't a clue about composing music. I can't even make out every single instrument played. All I hear is the sound of it all together. I would say that lyrics are more important to me than the music but on the other hand, if the music doesn't sound good, then the lyrics can't save the song. That said, here's what I think about Shine: One week last summer - a perfect piece for daydreaming. It's about feeling happy and content and being where you want to be. I love it. Still waiting for the bear, though. This place - has a country sound to me that I can't really reconcile with the picture of British Columbia in my mind. I would imagine something more Griegian :-) Still not sure whether I like it or not. If I had a heart - I like the way Joni sings this song but I am not too impressed by the lyrics. The lines "too many people now, too little land " have already been discussed. Even though I do agree with Kate that Joni is impressionistic rather than realistic the lines still sound superficial to me, and what's more and worse, they could lead some people to the conclusion that reducing earth's population would be the answer to our problems. It gives me flashes of a certain A Hitler's cry for Lebensraum. Of course Joni did not intend this but it's there. If only she had complicated things a little by saying something about the distribution of resources at least. So, this song makes me feel uncomfortable in other ways than Joni probably imagined any listener would. Hana - If there had been a different melody, this would have been a great song! But the music sounds so harsh it doesn't really go with the lyrics. Sorry, they can't save the song. Bad dreams - too much preaching and fingerpointing for my taste but good music. I am not too fond of the idea of an Eden lost and the thought that we would have been better off without a "sense of self and other". Would our lives have any point in a state like that? BYT - could have done without. Night of the Iguana - now, there is the Joni that I know and love! Here she tells a story of a man torn between rational thinking and dark desire with a melody that fits the lyrics perfectly. And she doesn't moralize or take sides. I love this song! It doesn't really fit with the theme of Shine, though - or does it? Reminds me of songs like Harry's house, Shades of Scarlet, The Priest. Strong and Wrong - there have been discussions of her borrowing from Dylan for This place but what about the line "to hear a robin sing"? Compare that with Dylan's If not for you and the line "couldn't hear a robin sing". I quite like Strong and Wrong even though the lyrics aren't that great. Shine - yes! This is a song about acceptance and hope against hope, and it has a melody that conveys the mood. Definitely a song I will play often. If - was my immediate favourite and still is, along with Night of the Iguana. I must admit though that I do not like all the changes she made, like "not make intellect your game" and "cause you've got the fight etc". But I can live with that. The song has substance; the music underlines it as does Joni's singing. To my ears, Joni's voice sounds stronger than in a long time, and compared to DED. Shine is gentler and wiser. As for the absence of love songs - well, she said in an interview that romantic love was over for her, and you can't write about things that are not part of your life anymore. I think Night of the Iguana is still some sort of love song, anyway. All in all, my feelings about Shine are mixed but I am not willing to compare it to her previous work and decide whether Shine is better or worse or just up to standards. At least, not yet. I'm just happy to have a brandnew JM-cd in my possession, which is more than I ever expected. Shine on, Marion ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:06:05 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Shine-first impression Just finally received my Shine/River/Funk This set from Amazon and gave Joni the first listen. I've been reading all the commentaries this past week on the list and heard a few snippets prior to receiving it so I've been expecting an album that "ranks up there with her best" as several listers have claimed. I'm afraid it doesn't make it for me on any level. Lyrically I find it pretty facile, at least for Joni; For another lyricist it might be their finest work. Some of the paradoxes she employs "If I had a heart I'd cry" or "Bad dreams are good" make you ponder for a minute but leave you with nothing. The wagging finger at the corrupt world is fully justified of course as a true response and can work in a song as long as the music around it makes the message irresistable. Passion Play or For the Roses spring to mind as perfectly crafted songs combining harsh criticism with enveloping and powerful music. Shine, the album, (and remember this is after one listen) sounds like a record made my someone who A) just bought their first synthesizer workstation and went through all the presets saying to themself "I'll throw some of this in...it sounds just like a saxophone," or "who needs an electric guitarist, I've got a patch right here," and B) has not listened to any pop/rock music for 10-15 years and is completely unaware how dated and cheesy that approach is. I mean, here's Bob Sheppard on the album, but all the sax section parts are played on the dang keyboard by Joni; Brian Blade same deal...awful JM drum programming. I have nothing against electronic music, and in fact like it a lot (Chaka's album contains lots of synth programming work but it is handled by masters of the craft and her voice has so much soul that it all makes sense). Joni's music is not about hip dance tracks; it is and has always been about heart and authenticity--one lister from England said it perfectly "Joni has always been a byword for authenticity"--that's why the fakeness of the sounds here is so disappointing. I also find there is a lack of strong melody and none of the unexpected chord movement that has always made her music stand up and be noticed. I really really wanted to believe in this one. So far I find little to hang my hat on. But then I'm a huge Travelogue fan, so what do I know? greetings all, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC now artists we don't like Ooooh, that's harsh - I think that's harsher than my comparing Neil Young's voice to Mickey Mouse's, but hey, that's just my opinion and that ain't worth squat! Earth eater? like a worm? I like her middle stuff (Speckless Sky, Bound by the beauty, The walking, No borders here) but not so much the more recent stuff. She does have some fans that seem a tad flakey, if you get my drift - at a higher percentage than we see here, that is. - --- Em wrote: > a friend of mine has latched onto the Issa > phenomenon in a big way. > Just a few months ago she'd heard of Jane Siberry > but had no real > connection. Now she is more or less addicted to > watching Issa vids on > YouTube. > I don't get the attraction, but it seems to make her > real happy. > To me its like being an earth eater. > Em > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC now artists we don't like - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > Ooooh, that's harsh - I think that's harsher than my > comparing Neil Young's voice to Mickey Mouse's, but > hey, that's just my opinion and that ain't worth > squat! > > Earth eater? like a worm? lol!!!!! like in that novel "100 Years of Solitude", that one character, the young woman who had the compulsion to put handfuls of earth in her mouth and eat it. Not sure I can put it down or say its bad - because I guess it filled her need...but it seems unattractive enough. But I ate a dog cookie the other day, so maybe next will be a handful of "earth". You notice I don't say "dirt". :P Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:51:05 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: one week last summer one week last summer I love it. brings out my emotions. . . yesterday my sister put on the stereo and my 6 year old twin neice (Connie) asked me to dance. maybe you can imagine the joy Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:58:02 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: analogies, njc "The descriptive analogy can be quite useful. We can describe an object, person, or situation which may be unfamiliar to readers by comparing it to a familiar one." I am looking for a good list of analogies for my class. I have been searching the internet. . .and it is taking me forever. . can anyone help me (provide a decent link?) I was teaching them about analogous colors and I want to go futher and teach them about analogies. leads to good metapghors and things joni need it for tomorrow's class. kind of quick thanks\Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: A couple Herbie comments BSN is beautiful... and yes it is musically almost unrecognizable but I believe it is a beautiful interpretation of the lyric, I get a very visual response to this song and feel like I am floating on cloud. Leonard's Jungle Line is simply astonishing and brings that lyric so sinisterly to life... damn that Joni is a good writer. Anyway this tune seems like a perfect marriage between vocalist and material. Shine on!!!... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:26:48 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Music today and yesterday and probably tomorrow njc I just can't get enough of my brightest diamond. If you get a chance to catch her live, don't miss it. Feist is great, i really was afraid that her star would fade, but she's awesome. Amy Wnehouse i like too, but have not really listened to her for a while. Of Monica's list, typically you will find Neil, Radiohead, and Beatles at my place. I've never really been exposed to much of the Who. They are on that ever expanding list of "bands i must listen to, books i must read, movies/theatre i must see" GARRET NP - Jens Lekman, Pocketful of Money (man, i just love this) On 10/2/07, Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > > > Garret - glad you got intoxicated by My Brightest Diamond, one of my > favorite CD's of last year. > > In a similar vein, I've been loving Feist's CD since it came out, and Amy > Winehouse doesn't seem to want to come out of the player either. The new Joe > Henry (his first since 2003) has also been getting lots of play and I'm > loving the new CD by Prince, smarmy face & all. Me'Shell's latest is also > smokin' hot. Spoon, Dinosaur Jr, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, Jason Isbell - > all great. Nellie McKay's new one, not so much. I think I'm done with her. > > Shine continues to be mixed in with all of it and continues to delight me > with each listen. > > Bob > > NP: Bruce Springsteen, "The > Line"------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #400 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------