From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #398 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 1 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 398 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: All this talk about Shine... [J Kendel Johnson ] Re: Joni on NPR's "All Things Considered" TODAY, 9/28 [Victor Johnson ] Re:correction [Victor Johnson ] Re: when you get shine ["Cassy" ] Re: Joni on NPR's "All Things Considered" TODAY, 9/28 [Mark-Leon Thorne <] Now that I have Shine... ["Cassy" ] Re: Bjork's boho dance [Garret ] radiohead fans NJC [Mags ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest DVD's ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Now that I have Shine... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Now that I have Shine... ["Cassy" ] Re: A strange combination [M C ] Re: Now that I have Shine... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC [jeannie ] Re: MEMO about sexy slingback shoes, njc [jeannie ] Bo writes [Peep Richman ] Re: radiohead fans NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC [jeannie Subject: Re: All this talk about Shine... I was pleasantly surprised to see a commercial for Shine, featuring the song "If", during the first commercial break on CBS Sunday Morning yesterday, too. Helps to have a record company with the advertising budget and regular buying channels already in place like Starbucks! J Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: And I was pleasantly surprised to see Shine being advertised on one of the most popular liberal blogsites, Daily Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/ Scroll down a little and there it is - cool! Bob NP: ELP, "The Endless Enigma, Pt.1" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:01:25 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: SJC - basically about the wonders of being a jmdlista... Hey Jeannie, the Yeats discussion is between you and Aleda so I won't go there again. I want to say that I share your frustration over the way some critics receive Joni's work. With Shine, it is so obvious that the bad reviews are generally by reviewers who have never really been into Joni and who did not bother to listen carefully. It's just frustrating, not just for Joni, but for the world as such, that this kind of superficiality gets any kind of prominent voice. As for critical voices on this list, to me it's an entirely different story. I trust that people are here because at some moment in their lives they have been touched by Joni's music in a way that still has them searching for what she is all about. I don't really know how to put it any better. I take it for understood in every post that we are here because we share that experience. We want to explore it, we want to stay in it and we want to share it or find it in other people. When Catherine says she loathes the way Joni sings the word 'if', when Aleda says she doesn't like what Joni did to Yeat's poem, and when someone else said he has listened to Shine over and over again but finds it soulless, I'm curious to know why they think so because I don't for one moment suspect that they never really 'got' Joni or that they haven't bothered to listen carefully and with an open mind. On top of this, so many people here are extremely gifted and passionate about all sorts of things (you are among them for sure), so when you ask a question you are sure to get really qualified answers. I just think it's such a privilege! There are people I disagree with, but not without respecting their opinion. Like when some people don't like BSN, the CD, and it's my top 2. I accept that some of the criticism against BSN is valid, but it doesn't upset me because the CD just fills me with awe over and over again. It doesn't have that effect on them, and so what? If Joni's music lifts me to some higher spiritual place I don't want it to be some place from which I can condescend on others. Man, there are so many things in this world I don't get so who am I to condescend? OK sorry this email is getting very long. And I am not too clear about what I am trying to say, sorry sorry! Have a good day - I'm about to go out here. Best Bene Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: NJC: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Hey there, Bene! I'll reply to your post when I get back home after getting Herbie's latest and Frida's book of letters. These little lyrical/poetic details concerning Yeats and the disaster Joni did to Yeats' peom, 'The Second Coming,' Aleda refers to, seem so petty and tiring to discuss any longer, but I must respond just to whatever, keep the peace, maybe, and to be able to debate in a friendly fashion? Joni sure has to endure extremely harsh critical judgements after her works get released, huh? I don't get this too well, just yet, and please understand, Bene, I don't get upset, just frustrated at this point, but never does the world exalt without putting down, and that's all part of the deal that comes with fame and fortunes just really get in the way, maybe because of jealousies or what? I'll figure this out, somehow. Too many earthly business issues with outdated rules of the game to deal with when I know Joni from a place that's much higher and greater than the commotions of the crowds of many crazy crows down below. I'll soon return to reply! Best to you, Bene, Bye, Jeannie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:14:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : NJC Bob Wiseman now Feist You're sure to enjoy Leslie Feist. She is a good singer (I like the honeyed edges around her voice, and the deeper alto her voice can go to) and she is also an entertainer. I saw her in concert here in Chapel Hill last year and enjoyed it/her/the band. She has a new album out which I don't own yet. I have her "Let it Die" album (terrific songs, great job at sequencing the songs, and quite refreshing to see her dipping into Blossom Dearie territory). Then her "Open Season" album of rarities, remixes and b-sides are also enjoyable, if not really cohesive. Her duet with transplanted French actress/singer "The Simple Story" is a 'delicious' tune to soak in. Their voices melding beautifully like arias. Enjoy and do write a review of it too. Joseph np: Little Wings - Saturday missblux@googlemail.com a icrit : I'm going to a concert with Canadian singer Feist tonight. Another Canadian, Bob Wiseman, is opening for her. My friend's got the tickets and she can't make it until after the opening act is over. Am I going to be missing out on something big? Bene - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:18:25 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Joni on NPR's "All Things Considered" TODAY, 9/28 On Oct 1, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Michael Flaherty wrote: > waytoblue@comcast.net wrote: >>>> No you don't. You speak for yourself only. Everyone's welcome to >>>> their own opinion but don't presume to speak for other people. > > Victor > > > > Oh, come on, Victor. So there's no evidence that > Hancock rates Joni above the other songwriters from her era? How > about Charles Mingus? Do you think he really considered anyone else? From an interview with Herbie Hancock, 1995 IGN: You're one of the very few jazz artists who have continued to succeed over several decades not as a nostalgia act but by creating new and different music. What do you think is the key to continued success in an industry that feeds off of youth and novelty? Hancock: Well, the strongest thing that any human being has going is their own integrity and their own heart. As soon as you start veering away from that, the solidity that you need in order to be able to stand up for what you believe in and deliver what's really inside, it's just not going to be there. So that's one thing. The other thing is to - and this is the advice I try to give to anyone - is forget about trying to copy someone else. Forget about trying to compete with someone else. Create your own pathway. Create your own new vision. There's an infinite number of ways to look at things, so find one that hasn't been done. Or find a way that something hasn't been done. I made a collaborative record. A lot of collaborative records have been done before, but I don't think they've been done like this. - ------------------------- This is along the lines of what I'm getting at. Everybody has a unique vision...Joni MItchell, Stevie Wonder, Tom Waits, Jerry Garcia, Neil Young, Van Morrison, or who ever...one is not better than the other, they're just different. But as Herbie says, there's an infinite number of ways to look at things, so there you go.. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: film about Joni's ballet - --- Kate Johnson wrote: > Joni Mitchell-inspired ballet caught on film > > article here: http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/arts_life/story.html?id=6120435c-307d-4dca-acbf-d51ca2d56ccf Thanks Kate! And as I said before, I'm ready to burn 50 copies on dvd is someone can seed it with a clean dvd of the Bravo Canada broadcast later this month. Anyone?? Brian in south jersey np: the hum of the vibratory brass tumbler - ----------------------------------------------------------- Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. And usually for the same reasons. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:25:20 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re:correction should read from an interview with Herbie Hancock 2006...sorry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:07:09 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: when you get shine Sweet Marianne made a request: <<< ON THE DAY. . . . thE SPeciAL dAY that you get SHINE, LOG in and tell us WHERE and EXACTLY WHEN you GET IT! >>> I was beginning to despair over ever getting my copy of Shine. I had a little set-to with Amazon over their taking pre-orders then not shipping on the day of the release. I confronted them about the email I received stating that the release date had been changed! Knowing the JMDL members already had Shine in their CD players I could not believe the audacity of such a claim. As it turned out, it was the Herbie Hancock release which had delayed my shipment, Amazon did not have it to ship and they were combining my two CDs into one package. I don't know if all Amazon locations had the same problem or not, or if it was, perhaps, related to the additional Amazon-exclusive tracks. (they state that ACOY and All I Want are both exclusive tracks). I was on my way out to a dinner party on Saturday evening about 5:30 P.M. PST and stopped by my mailbox on the way out. There I sat, all dressed up in my finest silver while Brad ran over to the box and came back with his hands behind his back, his face was shining with happiness knowing he was about to make my week. He handed the package to me with my mail and I decided to wait to open it until after the party so I wouldn't become a sniveling mess and ruin my makeup. I am wondering whether crying is a gender reaction to new Joni? I know when the first strains of BSN strings began to play when I had finally opened my stupid chocolate box copy of BSN tears slid down my cheeks out of nowhere and as I've followed the emails of people's reactions to Shine, I've noted that many of the ladies have similar emotional reactions, I don't recall any of the men saying they were emotionally moved - then again it could be that men just don't want to say they're moved to tears, or that I missed those posts. I felt on the edge of tears knowing I finally had the CD in my possession but stuffed it down until I could let myself absorb it more thoroughly. Hope that feeds your curiosity Marianne. love, love, love, Cassy NP: Herbie Hancock - A Case of You (listening to the European import and the Amazon "exclusive" back to back/back and forth to see if they are exactly the same recording. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:41:25 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni on NPR's "All Things Considered" TODAY, 9/28 I totally agree with you, Jim. I find that I am playing this album more and more. It seems to be addictive. And you're right, it's not just because it's Joni's songs. Herbie is a genius. Mark in Sydney On 01/10/2007, at 5:00 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > RE: Joni on NPR's "All Things Considered" TODAY, 9/28 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:23:44 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Now that I have Shine... I have completely surprised myself by not even opening Shine yet to listen to it. I have read the posts with reviews both positive and negative and can't bring myself to listen to it in it's entirety yet. I'm not sure why. I have been living on nerves and feelings for a little while now, having a bit of an emotional meltdown after moving so far away from my family and friends. I HAVE listened to Herbie Hancock's latest release several times... In my opinion it's a masterpiece. Each of the Diva's has her own contribution to the project and I refuse to make comparisons because I'm enjoying each of them in their own right. It's difficult not to think of the way Joni turns a phrase or colours the lyrics but these women (and Leonard Cohen) are talented and brave beyond words to take on this project in the company of brilliant jazz musicians; I raise my glass to them regardless of popular opinion. (I do believe the absolute wretchedness of some of the covers has prepared me well for this CD - Thank you Bob) I am unsure as to whether I will share my personal opinions about Shine with the group because they are exactly that... personal opinions. Warmly, Cassy NP: Bryan Thomas - Untitled ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:27:22 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Bjork's boho dance Hi Bob, thanks for the tracks (and to all the others that offered to send it along too). You know sometimes when you feel that you must hear a certain song? That's how i was about that song yesterday. I still have not located my copy of tribute, but not surprising given how hectic and crazy things have been since early august. GARRET NP- Devendra Banhart, The Spirit Is Near On 9/30/07, Bob Muller wrote: > Garret - your Bjork is attached. I accidentally called it "The Bobo Dance" > which gave me a pretty good chuckle. > > Also, here's a link where you (and anyone else for that matter) can get > Herbie's cover of "A fCase Of You". It's not included on the US domestic > release, nor on the Amazon issue, nor the I-tunes download. (Warning - it's > an instrumental, so if those soprts of things make you angry - be > forewarned. I will not be responsible for any acts of terrorism caused by > exposure to this track). > > http://tinyurl.com/3ydeq8 > > Bob > > NP: Karrin Allyson, "Blue Motel Room" > > PS: Get off digest - you'll have an earier time of keeping up. Really. > > > > > ________________________________ > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: radiohead fans NJC http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/entertainment_radiohead_col what do yall think of this? - --------------------------------- Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:01:51 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest DVD's Could someone please tell me how to get copies? I've asked the list several times but haven't gotten any response, please help!! Thanks, db >>> 9/29/2007 9:43 PM >>> I've gotten my copy of the performances from Jonifest and have been watching them this weekend. They bring me back great memories and remind me how talented Joni's fans are! Thanks guys! - -Monika See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Beauty & Fashion on Yahoo! Groups Share style tips and advice. Yoga Resources on Yahoo! Groups Take the stress out of your life. Yahoo! Groups Endurance Zone A Yahoo! Group for better endurance.. __,_._,___ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:01:18 +0100 From: "Azeem Ali Khan" Subject: Test njc please ignore Sorry folks, struggling to get resubbed, third attempt. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:23:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Now that I have Shine... <(I do believe the absolute wretchedness of some of the covers has prepared me well for this CD - Thank you Bob)> Um...you're welcome. I guess. I do know what you mean. Bob NP: Son Volt, "Circadian Rhythm" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:37:15 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Now that I have Shine... Of course, not all of them are wretched! It's just that having listened to covers from David Devaney Jr's "Big Yellow Taxi" to Roine Stolt's "Sex Kills" and everything in between, one learns to appreciate the quality contributions to the covers world. Just out of curiosity, Bob, have you ever run across a cover that was so bad you wouldn't include it? :) Cas If Iraq's biggest export was broccoli, would we still be there ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com To: Cassy Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Now that I have Shine... <(I do believe the absolute wretchedness of some of the covers has prepared me well for this CD - Thank you Bob)> Um...you're welcome. I guess. I do know what you mean. Bob NP: Son Volt, "Circadian Rhythm" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) From: M C Subject: Re: A strange combination I could see the kids' cd combined with "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"; the cover includes images of Mickey Mouse balloons. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:44:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Now that I have Shine... If it's been officially released on LP, CD, cassette or whatever - I'll release it regardless. After all, as we hear everyday - who am *I* to judge and someone else may really dig it. I heard a live soundboard recording of a performer doing "Come In From The Cold" once, and was excited because no one has covered that one as yet, at least as far as I know. BUT it was sooooooo awful and unlistenable (and it's a LONG song so that is a LOT of misery) I took a pass on it. Had it been better I would have gladly added it. Bob NP: MJohn Doe, "Lean Out Yr Window" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:45:48 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC Madame Superior Aleda: What's would be so wrong with sharing wisdom in a woodshed? I had no idea enlightenment that comes from sharing sophisticated musical knowledge with your intellectual colleagues depended on the physical architechtural design of the building y'all would be hanging out in. Sounds sorta shallow, imho. I see Ayn Rand's influence on you. I do, Aleda! Have you read Thomas Merton? He worked wonders with words in his little hermitage or woodshed or barnyard or stable or whatever. And often, Merton invited his friends from all over the world, especially during the growing unrest of the 1960's, which he was witnessing in solitude, in that little woodshed, up in the mountains of Kentucky, when he knew the times were 'a changing. Tragically he died in 1968, right as coming out of his cloister, and he was playing Bob Dylan for all of his friends on an old turntable full blast, those last months of his life, because he could relate and he was so enthusiastic with the changing music scene. I hope he had a little chance to listen to Joni. I imagine he would have been enchanted with her. But, of course, Madame Superior, I'm sorry you cannot enter into this woodshed. Here's to you, Thomas Merton: For Aleda: Imprisonment "You are so proud of your intelliegence," said the Master to the disciple. "You are like the condemned man who is proud of the vastness of his prison cell." ~Anthony DeMello~ Aleda said: **I certainly wouldn't take that person to the woodshed for sharing sophisticated musical knowledge about a song I'm crazy about.** Aleda, would you hang out in Neil Young's barnyard? Is Neil sophisticated enough for you or not? He's no Sondheim, that's for sure! Norma Jean - --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:47:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC Should be interesting - I doubt they would take the risk if they hadn't already made their respective fortunes. I would guess that your average radiohead fan has grown up in the time of free illegal downloading and doesn't feel a sense of obligation to pay an artist for their work if they can get it free. Time will tell. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Nighthawk Postcards" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:58:24 -0500 From: Cindy Vickery Subject: RE: radiohead fans NJC Intriguing! I'll be really interested to know how this works out for them, in terms of this release and for later. Talk about just stepping out of the ring of the star-maker machinery - they have no "credible" (to the industry, at least) way to measure sales on this release, and they're sure to have p*ssed off all sorts of folks. Surely that's their death knell, if they find themselves needing a label again? Wouldn't it be interesting if they gross more than typical?Thanks, Mags... c > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:28:46 -0400> From: margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca> Subject: radiohead fans NJC > To: joni@smoe.org> > http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/entertainment_radiohead_col> > what do yall think of this? > > > ---------------------------------> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl mailtagline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:04:51 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: MEMO about sexy slingback shoes, njc ajfashion@att.net wrote: Listen real quick? Hahahahahahaa. It's clear you just don't want me at the nekkid swimming parties on the night of the full moon. But I'd still appreciate knowing which days we're supposed to wear the cheerleader outfits, since I have a thing about being properly attired for any given situation. Unfortunately the only pleated skirt I have is a leopard print (which, BTW, I have never worn). Do you think it would be OK, what with the Taming-the-Tiger tie-in? And can I wear bronze slingbacks rather than saddle shoes? TIA, Aleda Aleda, May I suggest some beautiful slingback shoes from the Carlos Santana shoe line for you? A very sexy line of pretty high-heeled shoes for women. I don't know if they're made in China, but I think they would be high-class enough for you and I've had a couple of pairs and they are comfortable enough to wear those highheel stilts as needed, to get where you have to get, and then run to the car and sling 'em off to get back into your sandals and not feel any major discomfort in your feet. Jean - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:44:30 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' - -------------- Original message from Catherine McKay : -------------- > > Here's a great reaction to the critic issue from > Philip Pullman's website > (http://www.philip-pullman.com/about_the_writing.asp) > > Q: How does it feel to receive a good review or an > award? > > PP: I feel pleased to live in a world where there are > such good critics. > > A: And how does it feel to receive a bad review? > > PP: I feel sad to live in a world where there are such > poor critics. That is very funny. Sounds like something Mark Twain or Wilde would have said! Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:48:36 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: The Anticlimactic Shine OK, here's a question (probably naive): do you all think we miss the love songs? I mean, her songs about love, in its many forms, have not only marked many milestones in my life, but probably shaped the way I, in restrospect, perceive some of my own relationships. Would Shine have been a very different CD had JM written a song that, perhaps restropectively, looked back on a relationship or a complicated romantic life? I'm sure those of us who have aged with her would probably have related to such a song. - --Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: SJC - basically about the wonders of being a jmdlista... Bene, You're the one I've been aiming to reach since yesterday afternoon. I need quiet time to devote my thoughts into, without so many distractions, since I have high maintenence distractions here at home, galore!! Animal rescue is extremely demanding of my time. I usually have an animal, or a human or a phone on one arm and reaching for the keyboard with the other. I'm so relieved you're bring out those points of our much needed in-house critiques. I'm so ready to hear what others feel and think, especially now about Shine. And Shine has the sounds that can take us backwards in time and forwards to the future, too. By no means, in any way, form, or fashion, do I even remotely think that Joni is this perfect musician that can make no mistakes musically, lyrically, or in her public or private life. I'm dying to ask Bob and Victor and so many other highly regarded members here on the JMDL so, so many questions concerning Joni's work and so many other of life's issues, because of their tremendous insights with so many things. I don't even know where to start, Bene! And my questions are not about ice cream castles in the air... I want to learn as much as I can here, from all sides, now, Bene! That's why it's taking me time to get passed step one into our castle of knowledge. I hope I can soon be understood by those who love Joni's work, no matter if they're on day 1 or going on 40 years, so we can all share that which matters in our lives. Love, Norma Jean PS to Every One: I thank every single person on this list. missblux@googlemail.com wrote: Hey Jeannie, the Yeats discussion is between you and Aleda so I won't go there again. I want to say that I share your frustration over the way some critics receive Joni's work. With Shine, it is so obvious that the bad reviews are generally by reviewers who have never really been into Joni and who did not bother to listen carefully. It's just frustrating, not just for Joni, but for the world as such, that this kind of superficiality gets any kind of prominent voice. As for critical voices on this list, to me it's an entirely different story. I trust that people are here because at some moment in their lives they have been touched by Joni's music in a way that still has them searching for what she is all about. I don't really know how to put it any better. I take it for understood in every post that we are here because we share that experience. We want to explore it, we want to stay in it and we want to share it or find it in other people. When Catherine says she loathes the way Joni sings the word 'if', when Aleda says she doesn't like what Joni did to Yeat's poem, and when someone else said he has listened to Shine over and over again but finds it soulless, I'm curious to know why they think so because I don't for one moment suspect that they never really 'got' Joni or that they haven't bothered to listen carefully and with an open mind. On top of this, so many people here are extremely gifted and passionate about all sorts of things (you are among them for sure), so when you ask a question you are sure to get really qualified answers. I just think it's such a privilege! There are people I disagree with, but not without respecting their opinion. Like when some people don't like BSN, the CD, and it's my top 2. I accept that some of the criticism against BSN is valid, but it doesn't upset me because the CD just fills me with awe over and over again. It doesn't have that effect on them, and so what? If Joni's music lifts me to some higher spiritual place I don't want it to be some place from which I can condescend on others. Man, there are so many things in this world I don't get so who am I to condescend? OK sorry this email is getting very long. And I am not too clear about what I am trying to say, sorry sorry! Have a good day - I'm about to go out here. Best Bene Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: NJC: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Hey there, Bene! I'll reply to your post when I get back home after getting Herbie's latest and Frida's book of letters. These little lyrical/poetic details concerning Yeats and the disaster Joni did to Yeats' peom, 'The Second Coming,' Aleda refers to, seem so petty and tiring to discuss any longer, but I must respond just to whatever, keep the peace, maybe, and to be able to debate in a friendly fashion? Joni sure has to endure extremely harsh critical judgements after her works get released, huh? I don't get this too well, just yet, and please understand, Bene, I don't get upset, just frustrated at this point, but never does the world exalt without putting down, and that's all part of the deal that comes with fame and fortunes just really get in the way, maybe because of jealousies or what? I'll figure this out, somehow. Too many earthly business issues with outdated rules of the game to deal with when I know Joni from a place that's much higher and greater than the commotions of the crowds of many crazy crows down below. I'll soon return to reply! Best to you, Bene, Bye, Jeannie - --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC - --- jeannie wrote: > Madame Superior Aleda: > > What's would be so wrong with sharing wisdom in a > woodshed? > > I had no idea enlightenment that comes from > sharing sophisticated musical knowledge with your > intellectual colleagues depended on the physical > architechtural design of the building y'all would be > hanging out in. > Jeannie, I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to this particular thread, and I usually just let the people involved work these things out among them, so maybe I should just stay out of it, but I am completely at a loss to understand why you are attacking Aleda in this way. Is it because she thinks that poems such as Yeats' "The Second Coming" should be left intact? That's her opinion, to which she is entitled, and a few other people on this list have said they share that opinion. A few others have said that they like what Joni did with it in "Slouching..." Also their opinion, and they are equally entitled to it. Is it because Aleda said she read books by Ayn Rand when she was 13? Is that so very unusual? I was reading Victorian novels and "adult" books at that age as well, (no Ayn Rand though - never had any interest) and I'm sure lots of people would say the same. I was also reading Nancy Drew and comic books and cereal packages as well. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what is meant, on your part, to be some kind of joke, a joke that I just don't get, but it all comes across to me as an attack on Aleda - an attack that she doesn't, in my opinion, (N.B. opinion), deserve. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:43:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > > Should be interesting - I doubt they would take the > risk if they hadn't > already made their respective fortunes. I would > guess that your average > radiohead fan has grown up in the time of free > illegal downloading and > doesn't feel a sense of obligation to pay an artist > for their work if they > can get it free. > > Time will tell. > > Bob Issa, the artist formerly known as Jane Siberry, lets people download from her website and choose what, if anything, they will pay. (You can choose "gift from artist", standard price of .99, or name your own price.) http://www.sheeba.ca/store/index.php?cPath=21 Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Bo writes Hi JoniListers! I enjoy history....on page 219 from the book"Joni Mitchell...both sides now (Brian Hinton). "What does she think of Dave Crosby's quote that she is "about as modest as Mussolini"? Joni smiles and shakes her head. " I like to work myself up to a state of enthusiasm about anything I do; otherwise, what's the point? I'm not talking about arrogance. That's probably where Crosby's quote comes from." Finally, then, what makes her happy? "It might be a beautiful face that would make me put the microphone down. I would just be thinking fondly of someone who I love. You can strive and strive and strive to be happy, but happiness will sneak up on you in the most peculiar ways. Some days the way the light strikes things. Or for some beautifully immature reason like finding myself running to the kitchen to make myself some toast. Happiness comes to me even on a bad day. In very, very strange ways. I'm very happy in my life right now." This was a quote from Joni when she was 36 years old. I'd venture a guess that Joni, of course, has the life wisdom (and so much more experiences) now that she's 63, but I betcha if she were questioned in similar ways, she just might say similar things. Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say....Joni has much more and different things in/on her mind now...her enormous capacity to gain continuous knowledge, and, I feel has equally capacity to interpret new knowledge, new wisdom right on target.....but, basically, I believe that Joni adopts this same attitude toward life...the excitement, her ability to perceive her world in such a comprehensive manner, noticing minute details. Two more days and I'll be buying my copy of "Shine"....I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!! Marion, how are you feeling? Fever gone? Patti, Happy Birthday to your mother!!! She is blessed having you for her daughter. Thank you to all of you for sharing so much and being a continuous teacher....I'm learning a lot!!!! Love from Bo - --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:41:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: radiohead fans NJC I've heard her stuff. She'd have to pay ME. Bob NP: The Brains, "No Tears Tonight" - --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:55:45 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC Catherine, I'm not attacking Aleda. I'm talking to her in a way she can understand where I'm coming from, Catherine. Are you the lister pal she wrote me about just a while ago? I don't appreciate negative insinuations about me thrown out there in a cowardly fashion and I have a right to speak what I feel, Catherine. How do you see me "attack" Aleda? With Anthony De Mello's one minute wisdoms? Look, from my vantage point here, it's a similar pattern I'm seeing with certain individuals who come on when I start expressing myself. I know these patterns are consistent because I'm watching from my side with an eagle's eye. And they always do the same thing. These similar patterns happen at no other time. They e-mail me privately like Aleda has a few times since yesterday and tell me whatever and they block my e-mails from being sent to their address and how can I respond to what they asking or telling me? I'm not going to go out and spill the beans in front of everybody. The rejected e-mail demon messages which are returned to me are weird. I've never seen such mailer deamons--they come with private messages in them. There more transparency coming in with computer technology, which may be a very good thing. I'm glad Aleda has someone to be there for her since I was sincerely worried she could be feeling alone and I didn't want that, especially since I couldn't express it to her. Thanks, from me. But, I must do what I have to do and I'm not on the attack..I'm just watching my back, baby, with a puppy and kitten in tow. And I'm making dinner while my mother's just in from work telling me I need to go to the post office first thing in the morning and I must bid farewell just for now. So, forgive any errors. I promise to try to edit my e-mail messages before sending them out but sometimes, I just have to let them go, mistakes and all, I'm sorry! Shine's going into my kitchen cd player right now! Ciao, Catherine! Jean Catherine McKay wrote: --- jeannie wrote: > Madame Superior Aleda: > > What's would be so wrong with sharing wisdom in a > woodshed? > > I had no idea enlightenment that comes from > sharing sophisticated musical knowledge with your > intellectual colleagues depended on the physical > architechtural design of the building y'all would be > hanging out in. > Jeannie, I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to this particular thread, and I usually just let the people involved work these things out among them, so maybe I should just stay out of it, but I am completely at a loss to understand why you are attacking Aleda in this way. Is it because she thinks that poems such as Yeats' "The Second Coming" should be left intact? That's her opinion, to which she is entitled, and a few other people on this list have said they share that opinion. A few others have said that they like what Joni did with it in "Slouching..." Also their opinion, and they are equally entitled to it. Is it because Aleda said she read books by Ayn Rand when she was 13? Is that so very unusual? I was reading Victorian novels and "adult" books at that age as well, (no Ayn Rand though - never had any interest) and I'm sure lots of people would say the same. I was also reading Nancy Drew and comic books and cereal packages as well. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what is meant, on your part, to be some kind of joke, a joke that I just don't get, but it all comes across to me as an attack on Aleda - an attack that she doesn't, in my opinion, (N.B. opinion), deserve. Catherine - --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:56:01 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' in a woodshed NJC Catherine, I'm not attacking Aleda. I'm talking to her in a way she can understand where I'm coming from, Catherine. Are you the lister pal she wrote me about just a while ago? I don't appreciate negative insinuations about me thrown out there in a cowardly fashion and I have a right to speak what I feel, Catherine. How do you see me "attack" Aleda? With Anthony De Mello's one minute wisdoms? Look, from my vantage point here, it's a similar pattern I'm seeing with certain individuals who come on when I start expressing myself. I know these patterns are consistent because I'm watching from my side with an eagle's eye. And they always do the same thing. These similar patterns happen at no other time. They e-mail me privately like Aleda has a few times since yesterday and tell me whatever and they block my e-mails from being sent to their address and how can I respond to what they asking or telling me? I'm not going to go out and spill the beans in front of everybody. The rejected e-mail demon messages which are returned to me are weird. I've never seen such mailer deamons--they come with private messages in them. There more transparency coming in with computer technology, which may be a very good thing. I'm glad Aleda has someone to be there for her since I was sincerely worried she could be feeling alone and I didn't want that, especially since I couldn't express it to her. Thanks, from me. But, I must do what I have to do and I'm not on the attack..I'm just watching my back, baby, with a puppy and kitten in tow. And I'm making dinner while my mother's just in from work telling me I need to go to the post office first thing in the morning and I must bid farewell just for now. So, forgive any errors. I promise to try to edit my e-mail messages before sending them out but sometimes, I just have to let them go, mistakes and all, I'm sorry! Shine's going into my kitchen cd player right now! Ciao, Catherine! Jean Catherine McKay wrote: --- jeannie wrote: > Madame Superior Aleda: > > What's would be so wrong with sharing wisdom in a > woodshed? > > I had no idea enlightenment that comes from > sharing sophisticated musical knowledge with your > intellectual colleagues depended on the physical > architechtural design of the building y'all would be > hanging out in. > Jeannie, I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to this particular thread, and I usually just let the people involved work these things out among them, so maybe I should just stay out of it, but I am completely at a loss to understand why you are attacking Aleda in this way. Is it because she thinks that poems such as Yeats' "The Second Coming" should be left intact? That's her opinion, to which she is entitled, and a few other people on this list have said they share that opinion. A few others have said that they like what Joni did with it in "Slouching..." Also their opinion, and they are equally entitled to it. Is it because Aleda said she read books by Ayn Rand when she was 13? Is that so very unusual? I was reading Victorian novels and "adult" books at that age as well, (no Ayn Rand though - never had any interest) and I'm sure lots of people would say the same. I was also reading Nancy Drew and comic books and cereal packages as well. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what is meant, on your part, to be some kind of joke, a joke that I just don't get, but it all comes across to me as an attack on Aleda - an attack that she doesn't, in my opinion, (N.B. opinion), deserve. Catherine - --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:15:12 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Bo writes In a message dated 10/1/2007 7:00:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ubehpy2003@yahoo.com writes: Joni has much more and different things in/on her mind now...her enormous capacity to gain continuous knowledge, and, I feel has equally capacity to interpret new knowledge, new wisdom right on target.....but, basically, I believe that Joni adopts this same attitude toward life...the excitement, her ability to perceive her world in such a comprehensive manner, noticing minute details. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---- That's one of the reasons why I like Joni. I LOVE her music. I wouldn't be on this list if I didn't of course! I also like her, how shall I put this? "Restless nature," I suppose. She always gone down new and different roads in her career and I respect her all the more for it. She also is very expressive, perceptive, and has always seemed to be seeking something (atleast that is how it seems from what I read as I don't know her personally). I love that she embraces change rather than fears it or even worse, rejects it. She always does what is in her heart despite what you or critics or I or anyone thinks about it. I applaud and admire her for that among many other things. - -Mon ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #398 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------