From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #395 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 30 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 395 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TV Alert: HUGE JONI CONTENT [Moni Kellermann ] Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #394 [Blithe60@wmconnect.com] Good morning sjc [Garret ] Bjork's boho dance [Garret ] Re: Good morning sjc [Michael Paz ] Joni on Sunday Morning [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] NJC: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Bjork's boho dance [Bob Muller ] MEMO, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni on Sunday Morning [] Re: Joni on Sunday Morning [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] Re: Joni on Sunday Morning [] phrase in SHINE ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: TV Alert: HUGE now down to small JONI CONTENT [Patti Parlette ] Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' NJC [ajfashion@att.net] Some Joni on YouTube to check out... [motitan@aol.com] TV Alert: HUGE now down to small JONI CONTENT ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case ["Richard Flynn" ] Joni on CBS & other Press ["Lindsay Moon" ] Re: Frida Kahlo, njc [jeannie ] Re: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case [Bob Muller Subject: Re: TV Alert: HUGE JONI CONTENT Wie Patti Parlette so vortrefflich formulierte: > Joni is supposed to be on the CBS Sunday Morning Show tomorrow, 9 > a.m. EST. The website http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/09/sunday/main13562.shtml does not mention Joni Mitchell but lists Annie Lennox. moni ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 04:40:11 EDT From: Blithe60@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #394 I am learning them now. Piano with slight clarinet. Beautiful Joni, beautiful work. Viva La Joni, she comes again. I think the critics should understand something about the test of time, they seem to evacuate all the right words but with little real understanding. Their loss. Evil thought: Like Islam, who keeps woman from speaking publicly, CRITICS: Paper stuffed, well...........less harsh: Don't write about what you don't understand. Some minds can't compute a great masterpiece, Ellington, Greig. Would Joni be any different? Good day to all, JiTh t > , > So I was wondering if anyone hoere is going to learn to play any of the > songs > from Shine whether it be on guitar or piano? I heard so many wonderful S > performances of Joni songs (and non Joni songs for that matter) at Jonifest > it > makes me wonder if anyone will choose songs from this album. What song > would > you/will you cover? > - -Monika > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:45:25 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Good morning sjc Good morning, i hope people are having good days. I have been having difficulty getting involved in discussion threads recently as i am so very far behind on digest. There have been many very interesting threads recently. Just wanted to say that. Some random thoughts to mark "Joni Month": Have listened to Shine twice through now. I am surprised. Musically, i quite like it. In fact. there were moments that left me very surprised. I was prepared to be underwhelmed. I doubted whether Joni could maintain my interest. This is a lot easier to listen to and, in my opinion, more memorable than TTT, which, let's face it, would not be all that difficult. So, on the surface, i am pleased. I'm still digesting and don't want to tie myself down to anything just yet, but i think it is a fairly mixed bag. I'm loving Shine, Night of the Iguana, and Bad Dreams. The opening track is interesting. I have always wanted Joni to make an instrumental album. I find it far too long though. BYT is pointless and uninteresting. It has none of the spark of the original. My view will inevitably change a number of times in the next while. I have been listening to a lot of Joni lately. The Herbie Hancock album has not yet arrived, but i am looking forward to it. GARRET NP- Fujiya & Miyagi, Photocopier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:57:17 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Bjork's boho dance I have been rediscovering my love for Bjork's music as much as my love for Joni. I can't find my copy of the tribute album right now and really want to hear Boho dance by Bjork. Would anyone be kind enough to send me an mp3 of this inspired version of an amazing song? I saw Bjork play at a festival recently. It was great. I was worried that, after so many years of being a fan, i would inevitably be disappointed. So wrong. Cirque de Bjork was a great experience. GARRET NP- Fujiya & Miyagi, In one ear & out the other ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:33:00 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Good morning sjc Hi Garret- My tribute album is packed away in my suitcase and I am on the road to the airport in Nashville. I will get it out and try to email that to you before I get on the plane if we have time before the plane leaves if no one else can help you out. I too have been enjoying reading everyones reactions to the new music. I quite like TTT so I can identify with most people that have problems with it or the VG-8 (which I love and have just ordered a VG-99 the latest greatest from Roland with improves acoustic sounds and much more programability) I am particularly fond of Love Puts On A New Face, which since I have been playing that song my wife says it sounds like such a sad song. I think it is joyful song so I guess it's just what makes us all different. I also LOVE Stay In Touch and Loves Cries. The only one I really don't are for is No Apologies on that album. On the new album I like it all except for Hana which I find annoying cause of the incessant drum loop. Elsewise I think it is terrific and can't wait till the new one which I hear is in her contract. We are riding to Nashvegas right now to catch a plane and listening to the new Herbie which all my jazz boys are enjoying. Best Paz NP-Amelia-Herbie Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Sep 30, 2007, at 6:45 AM, Garret wrote: Good morning, i hope people are having good days. I have been having difficulty getting involved in discussion threads recently as i am so very far behind on digest. There have been many very interesting threads recently. Just wanted to say that. Some random thoughts to mark "Joni Month": Have listened to Shine twice through now. I am surprised. Musically, i quite like it. In fact. there were moments that left me very surprised. I was prepared to be underwhelmed. I doubted whether Joni could maintain my interest. This is a lot easier to listen to and, in my opinion, more memorable than TTT, which, let's face it, would not be all that difficult. So, on the surface, i am pleased. I'm still digesting and don't want to tie myself down to anything just yet, but i think it is a fairly mixed bag. I'm loving Shine, Night of the Iguana, and Bad Dreams. The opening track is interesting. I have always wanted Joni to make an instrumental album. I find it far too long though. BYT is pointless and uninteresting. It has none of the spark of the original. My view will inevitably change a number of times in the next while. I have been listening to a lot of Joni lately. The Herbie Hancock album has not yet arrived, but i am looking forward to it. GARRET NP- Fujiya & Miyagi, Photocopier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 08:35:39 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Joni on Sunday Morning Hi all...sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the Sunday morning site at CBS.com list Annie Lennox as this weeks guest. Jonily yours, Warren Keith ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:40:00 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Hi Jeannie, you know I don't think what Aleda said is hard to understand, even though I'm not really into poetry - I like (I guess I 'get') lyrics much better. I thought of this when Laura (or was it somebody else, I'm not sure if I misunderstood that) asked which of four texts were poetry, and which ones lyric. Three of them struck me as having a particular kind of silent room around them, I can't explain what it was but as if the way the words connected to each other or stood alone created a space of their own. I felt that space would be likely to be drowned if put to music. The one I felt was lyric felt as if something was missing - something was going on but the words needed something to lean on: I guessed that might be the music. I lost track of the thread, or maybe I just misunderstood what was going on - maybe the result was that all were poems, none lyrics. However, I think most people agreed on which pieces were likely to be poetry and which ones lyric. I'm no expert in poetry, and for all I know what Aleda says may be wrong but I think it makes sense to think that very good poetry can be drowned by being put to music, but that bad poetry can be lifted up and enhanced by being put to music. I think Jeff put this very well in his email earlier on. This is a general statement, and the truth if there is one is surely more complex than that. I feel that very often arguments arise over general statements like this - because they provoke statements to the contrary. Such as: oh but this or that excellent poem was put to music... and so on. I'm not saying there isn't a wider truth out there, just that this makes sense. Does this seem outrageous to you....? I'm curious, because I sometimes don't understand the things people get upset about here. Of all places... Best Bene Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Aleda, Whadda'ya tryin' to say? That Joni's version of Yeats' poem, 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem,' in song, fails because it's a first rate poem? Joni's adaptation of Kipling's 'If,' is okay by you because it's only a fifth rate poem? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:35:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Bjork's boho dance Garret - your Bjork is attached. I accidentally called it "The Bobo Dance" which gave me a pretty good chuckle. Also, here's a link where you (and anyone else for that matter) can get Herbie's cover of "A fCase Of You". It's not included on the US domestic release, nor on the Amazon issue, nor the I-tunes download. (Warning - it's an instrumental, so if those soprts of things make you angry - be forewarned. I will not be responsible for any acts of terrorism caused by exposure to this track). http://tinyurl.com/3ydeq8 Bob NP: Karrin Allyson, "Blue Motel Room" PS: Get off digest - you'll have an earier time of keeping up. Really. - --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type audio/mpeg which had a name of Bjork - The Bobo Dance.mp3] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:43:57 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: MEMO, njc Le Le wrote: > I'd appreciate being included in whatever memo > goes out telling list members they aren't allowed to say anything > even remotely critical about Mitchell's work without being > deemed some kind of pariah. Or that we all have to don > pleated skirts and lead the chorus of "Gimme a J, gimme an O, > gimme an N, gimme an I! What's that spell--JONI!" > MEMO No booing Joni on the list. No using the remote to kill sacred cows. All must wear pleated skirt, especially if their name is Bob and they are from Boston. The inner circle password chorus must be chanted before skinny dipping at the Full Moon. You must love to dance to be here. The Mismanagement ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 9:29:53 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Joni on Sunday Morning BUT a story on one of Joni's childhood heroes, Gene Autrey! Jerry - ---- Warrenkeith91354@aol.com wrote: > Hi all...sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the Sunday morning site at > CBS.com list Annie Lennox as this weeks guest. Jonily yours, Warren Keith > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:43:03 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Sunday Morning wasn't Joni at the dedication of a museum or some such event awhile back...could it be? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:20:46 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Joni on Sunday Morning And performed one her best live concerts ever. Jerry - ---- Warrenkeith91354@aol.com wrote: > wasn't Joni at the dedication of a museum or some such event awhile > back...could it be? > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:40:15 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: phrase in SHINE LCStanley7@aol.com writes: Is there a phrase in SHINE that particularly jumps out and grooves you? g rooves you? grooves you? grooves you? GReat question. "they paved paradise and they put up a parking lot." "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone." THIS is the first thing I thought of when I read the question .. I will never tire of this song. . never, ever. "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone." even tho I think of this all the time. . all the time, all the time. . it still hits my heart when something is lost. . . that even tho I have this loving warning, . . that I am still caught by surprise when something is gone.. . and that I feel that I did not know what I had. tho I try I try to appreciate and cherrish what 'I got. There is no pill for me tho I search. lOve Marianne ps. I will think of this question with the new music too Laura. XOXO _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:44:04 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: RE: TV Alert: HUGE now down to small JONI CONTENT Oh, Dears. I couldn't sleep at all last night I was tossing and turning turnin' and tossin, tossin' and turnin'all night I slept on the strange pillows of my Jonilust I dreamed of Joni on CBS Over censors' bleeping warns Dreams JMDLAmelias - dreams and false alarms. Kind of a portrait of a disappointment. Sweet dreams are made of these, as Annie now tells us. Everybody's lookin' for something... And I was looking for Joni. But instead, we got: Gene Autrey for Hillybilly Bob, and you know... And Annie Lennox. Annie is very good -- great even -- but she ain't Joni. Although there are similarities: The thinking person's rock star... Artistic bent in school... Dropped out of music school, too restrictive... Ignoring record companies looking for more commercial success...(behind the popular song) "Like people that paint paintings, and they tell you they want more blue..." (TIC: Blue!)....("A painter paints a painting"....."paint a Starry Night again, man!") Songs of mass destruction.... (Shine on mass destruction....) We live in tenuous times...(Holy war Genocide Suicide) If I could dream and not let Joni dreams be my master I'd be alright I know You'll be alright You'll be alright. I just need another sleep song. Graham/Willy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDT8_bXJZXQ "While the song that he sang her To soothe her to sleep Runs all through her circuits Like a heartbeat..." Bed peace, Patti P. ________________________________ I'll be at work but I already made sure my sister knows to throw a tape in the vcr at 9! I told her it was of the utmost importance--life or death.> -Monika> ________________________________> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:08:07 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Frida Kahlo, njc I heard you taliking about Frida (Jeanne . . and Aleda.) ANd I just happend to have this sweet little book sitting on my desk. . I recommend it. It is called: The letters of Frida Kahlo Carta Apasionadas compiled by Martha Zamora I love to underline things in my books in pencil .. so here are a few thing I have underlined, from the book: all are written by Frida Kahlo: "I need you to tell me somehting new because truly I was born to be a flower pot and never leave the dining room." ( I don't think she wanted to be the flower pot) "Mexico is, as always disorganized and mixed up. The only thing it has left is the great beauty of the land and of the indians. Every day, the ugly part of the United States steals a piece; it is a shame, but people have to eat and it is inevitable that the big fish eats the small one." "I don't have the least ambition to become anybody. I don't care for people's pretentiousness, and I am in no way interested in becomming a 'big shit.' " ". . . the imperative need to destroy the false foundations of the current world." "your buddy who never forgets you." fRIEDA I have seen her name spelled both ways. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:29:30 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' NJC - -------------- Original message from jeannie : -------------- [several snips] > You don't get me, Aleda. I'm looking beyond all old rules of an ancient game. > > Maybe one day you'll hear clear-headedly beyond all the cheapening sounds you > hear through Kipling's fifth rate sappiness, or through Ayn Rand's pathology, or > Joni's STB, and all of the negative things you hear through my cheapening > stupidities, I imagine, being the poetic critic you are and the dwelling in it > that comes with the critic's package deal. ??????? I have no idea what you're saying in the paragraph above. One day I'll "hear clear-headedly beyond all the cheapening sounds [I] hear through Kipling fifth-rate sappiness". . . . This sentence is incomprehensible. Let me say one thing though: I am not a poetic critic. I am not a "justafiable" [???] critic. Or a poetry critic. Or a critic of poetry. Or a critic of anything. I am merely a human being who likes to think about things deeply, and to try to express those thoughts as clearly and articulately as I can. > > If I could think like you, the justafiable critic, I could also learn how to > listen to Joni in a sleezy like style as she destructs Slouching Towards > Bethlehem in disgust. "Sleezy?" "Sleazy?" Are you suggesting that because I don't like that song that I am listening to it in a sleazy style? That makes no sense. Does not liking a work of art mean one is perceiving it in a sleasy like style? What _is_ a sleazy like style? > > But, I can't Aleda. I can't help but love the way Joni sings that song. That's fine. I don't have any problem with anyone liking that song. I don't have any problem with anyone liking any Joni Mitchell song. Why do you have a problem with my not liking it? > And, maybe you can use a signature stating your disapproval with Joni's > meddling into Yeats' masterpiece and destroying it, and that way you know your > Yeats stands clearly separated from Joni causing the poem any more harm and you > won't have to dwell in defense of your mean ol' daddy, W.B. Yeats any longer. Look, the subject comes up on the list and I respond to it. It's by no means the center of my life. Neither is Yeats or Mitchell for that matter. (And I don't "do" sigs.) > > You were reading Ayn Rand at thirteen? > I can't imagine any 13 year old kid interested in Ayn Rand. > Now, that sounds strange. > I'm interested to know why you find Ayn Rand pathological and as of when into > her studies and after what work of hers you were exposed to, made you come to > the conclusion of a pathological Ayn Rand. I first read Anthem, then We the Living, then The Fountainhead, then Atlas Shrugged. Then her nonfiction books (The Virtue of Selfishness and others whose titles have, mercifully, been lost to the mists of time.) I also read Anna Karenina when I was thirteen. And Romeo and Juliet and Julius Caesar and I tried to read Hamlet. I also read Nancy Drew. What can I say?--I was a kid who liked to read. This is neither the time nor the place to go into why I think Rand is pathological. You might want to check into the memoirs of Nathaniel Branden and Barbara Branden if you're interested in this topic. I'm not exactly going out on a limb in this conclusion; Rand was, as it were, pretty bent in many, many ways. Not sure why it's important to you, but as I recall I came to the conclusion Rand's philosophy was 'disturbing' by the time I was 16. Details of her personal life only came to light much later (thus my from-a-distance diagnosis of her pathology). > > And now, how did, "poor Frida" get into my post? > I put her there, Aleda! > That is how la pobresita de Frida got there. > > Three decades with Frida and three with Joni, too? > Now that sounds cool! > > The book you mentioned, 'Frida-A Biography of Frida Kahlo' by Hayden Herrera > is far from my favorite reference. And, a couple nights ago, even my son > mentioned the tackiness of the book cover with Salma Hayak's picture on it and > not Frida's. That a major turn-off though I can appreciate Hayden Herrera's > total immersion into Frida's world and the time it took for her her to research > so many, many minor details that makes the book feel not all that inviting. My copy of this book is copyrighted in 1983, so it came out before (what I like to call) the Madonna-ization of Kahlo. There's a Kahlo self-portrait on the cover of mine. I'm sure Herrara's publisher decided to cash in on the people whose first exposure to Kahlo was from the Julie Taymor film. So don't blame Herrara for the Salma Hayak picture. Herrara's is, for now, the definitive biography of Kahlo. I'm sure as time goes by there will be others. I, too, have many other books on Kahlo, including a cookbook! I guess what I find bewildering is how a couple of people who post on this list display what comes off as a rather anti- intellectual stand. When I love an artist (whether it be Joni Mitchell or Frida Kahlo or Dante--whom I'm currently immersed in), I like to find out as much I can about that person and his or her work. I like to be exposed to opinions that are in concert with mine and opinions that are not-- because that's how I learn. I am incredibly ignorant about some of the finer points of music--the use of instruments, the more complex aspects of Mitchell's compositions and arrangements--and yet I'm thrilled to read posts on the list by people who know about these things, especially those by musicians or music critics. Those posts widen and enrich my appreciation of Mitchell. If someone wrote about the use of piano, as opposed to guitar, in a Mitchell song I loved, I certainly wouldn't take that person to the woodshed for sharing sophisticated musical knowledge about a song I'm crazy about. I'd be--and have been--grateful to learn something. Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:32:51 -0400 From: motitan@aol.com Subject: Some Joni on YouTube to check out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsz9uh_BuI?(Hejira live in Japan) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ggfs2kgfY?(Slouching Towards Bethleham in NY) (There's actually quite a bit of footage from these two concerts if you care to look....) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPoG2pMBAOQ?(Music video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG9K6Zoa7FY?(Joni on Rosie O'Donnell doing Harry's House) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rl5nSkpqc?(Help Me live in '74) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_qzTpoqpo?(Joni in '86 with some booing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pALSKcWcVEk? (Joni with Johnny Cash) A little fun for your Sunday..... - -Monika ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:37:45 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: TV Alert: HUGE now down to small JONI CONTENT >Dreams JMDLAmelias - dreams and false alarms. good try baby. .. _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:41:07 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' NJC - -------------- Original message from "Mark Scott" : -------------- > > Isn't the Yeats poem titled 'The Second Coming'? Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I get over here in Joni-world and, well, lose my grip on small (lol) details like the actual title of Yeats's poem. > [snip] > Somewhere Joni aired her views on the poem and, as I recall, she > actually said she thought it needed some work! I believe she said > something to the effect that the first part of it is good but that it > sort of comes unravelled in the second half. So humble, our Siquomb > can be sometimes! What can I say? I think she was dead wrong. The movement between the first and second stanzas is one of the great transitions in English poetry. > > She went on to say that she did some rearranging of Yeats' language > and added some of her own to create the lyric. So this was not > strictly a 'setting it to music' scenario. I look at it more as > adapting one artistic medium to another. Like adapting a novel into a > film, to use your analogy. This is certainly a valid take on this subject. I don't happen to agree, but I appreciate your explaining to me your understanding of what she was after in the song. > > Joni did have to ask permission from Yeats' estate to record and > publish the song and that permission was granted. If Yeats himself has given permission, I'd still think it was a bad idea for Yeats and for Mitchell. (Vis a vis film adaptions: In fact I don't think Lean was a great filmmaker, although he made some classic movies. I really dislike Merchant/Ivory. But let's not even go there.) > I'm glad you respect her work. I think we can disagree here and > respect one another as well. Everybody has their own opinion and > their own way of expressing it. In view of the fact that email is an > imperfect medium and that content can be easily mis-construed, I think > we should all give each other the benefit of the doubt. Well said, Mark. Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case - --- Bob Muller wrote: > here's a link where you (and anyone else for > that matter) can get Herbie's cover of "A fCase Of > You". It's not included on the US domestic release, > nor on the Amazon issue, nor the I-tunes download. > (Warning - it's an instrumental, so if those soprts > of things make you angry - be forewarned. I will not > be responsible for any acts of terrorism caused by > exposure to this track). > > http://tinyurl.com/3ydeq8 > I'm listening to it now and I'm absolutely livid. Where are the fecking words? But seriously, what pisses me off is that they release different versions of the same album. Why do they leave things off the North American version? This is a very pretty arrangement, by the way. Too bad about the lyrics though. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:24:18 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, After the rush: new books After the rush (of disappointment after we knew that Joni had never been our TVs this morning) When you come back down You're not *always* disappointed There's something else to keep you high: New books! Because you know, life is for learning. I read about this one and immediately thought of Sherelle and Dr. Laura in particular, and you know there may be more: "Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain" OLIVER W. SACKS, Knopf, $26. October. The neurologist who writes about medical science as though crafting elegant mystery novels here examines how music affects the emotions and our perception of the world. Among other phenomena, he writes about "brainworms," those tunes that get into our heads and won't stop playing; synasthesia, which links notes to colors or tastes; and how music can help stroke or Parkinson's patients communicate, or calm those with Alzheimer's disease. "Sacks is as good a guide to this mysterious and barely understood world as one could ask for, mixing serious case studies with personal takes on music and what its ultimate uses could possibly be," says Kirkus Reviews. **** And then there is this one (thinking of Bene, our resident linguist, and Emiliano, our resident -- thought sadly absent -- philosopher, as well as our resident English professors): "The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window to Human Nature" STEVEN PINKER, Viking, $29.95. September. Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker, who has the rare gift of being able to write about abstruse, difficult concepts in an accessible way, here takes on a few brain twisters: how we think and how language may affect thought. He explores such concepts as naming, swearing, expressing politeness and the uses of metaphor. This is slippery stuff to get your mind around, but with Pinker as your guide, it can be done, and rewardingly. Kirkus Reviews approaches it this way: "Call it continuing education for brain owners, an instruction manual on how thought works - and how to think better." ***** Is it all books and words Or do you really feel it? Do you really laugh? Do you really care? Do you really smile When you smile? Hey, maybe if these two authors put their heads together (because you know two heads are better than one) they could write about JMOCD. They'd have lots of (a) case (TIC! of you) studies here on this list. Like Oddmund, who started all this crazy ooby shooby. Not me, though. There's even a new book for all those who participated in the "Joni instrumentals get me angry!!!" thread: "Songs Without Words" by Ann Packer. I momentarily confused her with Ann Patchett (who also has a new one, "Run"). I bought her book "Truth & Beauty: A Friendship" a few years ago simply because the title seemed Joni-ish. (I told you when I met you I was crazy.) Has anyone read "Wonderful Tonight: George Harrison, Eric Clapton, and Me" by Pattie Boyd and Penny Junor? Pattie was on the CBS Sunday Morning Show a few weeks ago talking about it. Ha! Now it occurs to me that they often have people on the show who are coming out with something new in the upcoming week. Hence Annie (TIC! bakes her cakes and her breads) today, and Queen Latifah (I think?) last week. I wonder if Joni's last chance is lost. Although it really is hard to (TIC! talk sense to you) imagine her on that show. They'd have to bleep a lot of her out! She's more suited to smoking on Charlie Rose, imo. Here's the whole "Autumn's Literary Harvest" article if anyone wants more: http://www.courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-fallintro0930.artsep30,0,3260997.story Okay, okay. Enough from me. I'll go back to the Sunday paper....until the Jonidiomatic logic that goes on my brain reads something that reminds me of Joni and love sucks me back this way. That should take about three minutes! Love, Patti P. P.S. Thank you, Jody, for tethering me to a ringing telephone this morning to make sure I was awake for the show. Now *that's* Joni Sisterhood! As Joni would say: "Good on you!" Good on all of you. Shine on goodwill. _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:36:45 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case Shame on you for disseminating this, Mr. Muller. The very thought that people might listen to this make me feel like I'm going to blow a gasket. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 1:56 PM To: Bob Muller; Garret; Joni LIST Subject: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case - --- Bob Muller wrote: > here's a link where you (and anyone else for > that matter) can get Herbie's cover of "A fCase Of > You". It's not included on the US domestic release, > nor on the Amazon issue, nor the I-tunes download. > (Warning - it's an instrumental, so if those soprts > of things make you angry - be forewarned. I will not > be responsible for any acts of terrorism caused by > exposure to this track). > > http://tinyurl.com/3ydeq8 > I'm listening to it now and I'm absolutely livid. Where are the fecking words? But seriously, what pisses me off is that they release different versions of the same album. Why do they leave things off the North American version? This is a very pretty arrangement, by the way. Too bad about the lyrics though. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:20:34 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: JM on CBS Darn! Missed it! The curse of being in digest mode! Did it get recorded? Is anyone planning a tree? B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:24:21 -0700 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: Joni on CBS & other Press I taped the show but when they went through the segments at the beginning, it was Annie Lenox they were going to feature so I figured it was unlikely they'd feature Joni as well. So I erased it. Maybe next week. I also got my People this week and in Albums, they had a small photo and blurb on Herbie's album but no Joni. But another big feature on Annie. Hmmm. Who's her PR agent?? (Oh, unrelated to Joni, there's a feature on Heather Locklear and when she is asked how she has kept up her looks, the standard Hollywood response: "Oh, good diet and lots of sleep!" Yeah, right.) I'm having a hard time liking "Shine" but am giving it a few more chances because I often react badly to the first few listens of a Joni album. Needless to say, my kids hated it right out of the gate. Sigh. I'm not fond of all the synth sound and found a direct opposite when Stevie Wonder's Superstition came on the radio. The horn section just gives that song so much life whereas I think it would have livened up Joni's arrangements on Shine to have musicians instead of keyboard imitations. I also find too many similarities to what she's done before, the "Sex Kills" similarity as we've mentioned. I also hear a repeat of "Job's Sad Song" in "If." So far I don't find the lyrics especially inspired, sort of seems like a bunch of throwaway lines she scribbled down on a piece of paper. I know "Fiction" from DED was a similar circumstance of pages and pages of opposites but it seems a better crafted song. And I find too much repetitious notes in songs, for instance "If." The opening instrumental seems unshapen to me, not quite a fully formed composed piece. Just kind of meanders and meanders, never really having a beginning, middle and end, never building up to anything. "Paprika Plains" did a fair amount of meandering, but I think it had more cohesiveness. I'll probably regret saying any of this in a few more days, but that's my feeling for the time being. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:30:54 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Frida Kahlo, njc I can't believe you happen to have that little book of love letters to Frida's 'querido doctorcito.' My mom's been begging me to get her that book with post-it notes on the fridge, my desk, the dining room table, etc, etc. It's correspondence between Frida and her doctor with whom she had a long love affair with. She painted him a picture, too! Isn't Frida just so pure with her emotions? She was so cool. My mom says my grandfather had a major crush on her and he was really against my mom even thinking of plucking her eyebrows or waxing her female fuzz moustache! :) I think that's hilarious The painting Frida made for her doctor must have been bursting with emotions, probably full of secret storms and private passions, since Diego Rivera was always somewhere in the picture with some of his off night back street models and his fancy, fashionable fans. You know, Marianne, thanks for reminding me. I am going to go get Mother her the Frida-Doctorcito Love Letter book and it'll be the chance for me to go get Herbie Hancock's new album. I'm a happy gal, today! What more can I ask for? I got me a new Joni album. Herbie's coming on. Frida's here with me through her love letters. And I have me the JMDL where people understand my love, respect and admiration for our dearest, Ms. Joni Mitchell. Love, Jeannie PS: I saw Annie Lennox on CBS Morning and thought I missed Joni, but thanks to someone here on the JMDL, I stopped fretting missing Joni's appearance over my LCD TV set. I've always liked Annie Lennox, very much! Her voice is powerful and her her sensitive soul roars through that voice. She's one of the girls! Marianne Rizzo wrote: I heard you taliking about Frida (Jeanne . . and Aleda.) ANd I just happend to have this sweet little book sitting on my desk. . I recommend it. It is called: The letters of Frida Kahlo Carta Apasionadas compiled by Martha Zamora I love to underline things in my books in pencil .. so here are a few thing I have underlined, from the book: all are written by Frida Kahlo: "I need you to tell me somehting new because truly I was born to be a flower pot and never leave the dining room." ( I don't think she wanted to be the flower pot) "Mexico is, as always disorganized and mixed up. The only thing it has left is the great beauty of the land and of the indians. Every day, the ugly part of the United States steals a piece; it is a shame, but people have to eat and it is inevitable that the big fish eats the small one." "I don't have the least ambition to become anybody. I don't care for people's pretentiousness, and I am in no way interested in becomming a 'big shit.' " ". . . the imperative need to destroy the false foundations of the current world." "your buddy who never forgets you." fRIEDA I have seen her name spelled both ways. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 - --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:39:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: was Bjork's boho dance now Herbie's missing Case And in the case of this project, as I've stated before, it's highly confusing. The itunes release adds the dangerous "Harlem In Havana" & "I Had A King" (both worth having and clocking in at over 8 minutes apiece), the Amazon release adds Sonya Kitchell's vocal on "All I Want", and the import version adds the riot-inducing "A Case Of You". I'm with you, Catherine - if you weren't paying close attention and wanted to have it all you would potentially have to buy this album 4 times! Madness, I say. Bob NP: Joni, "Electricity" - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: NJC: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Hey there, Bene! I'll reply to your post when I get back home after getting Herbie's latest and Frida's book of letters. These little lyrical/poetic details concerning Yeats and the disaster Joni did to Yeats' peom, 'The Second Coming,' Aleda refers to, seem so petty and tiring to discuss any longer, but I must respond just to whatever, keep the peace, maybe, and to be able to debate in a friendly fashion? Joni sure has to endure extremely harsh critical judgements after her works get released, huh? I don't get this too well, just yet, and please understand, Bene, I don't get upset, just frustrated at this point, but never does the world exalt without putting down, and that's all part of the deal that comes with fame and fortunes just really get in the way, maybe because of jealousies or what? I'll figure this out, somehow. Too many earthly business issues with outdated rules of the game to deal with when I know Joni from a place that's much higher and greater than the commotions of the crowds of many crazy crows down below. I'll soon return to reply! Best to you, Bene, Bye, Jeannie missblux@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Jeannie, you know I don't think what Aleda said is hard to understand, even though I'm not really into poetry - I like (I guess I 'get') lyrics much better. I thought of this when Laura (or was it somebody else, I'm not sure if I misunderstood that) asked which of four texts were poetry, and which ones lyric. Three of them struck me as having a particular kind of silent room around them, I can't explain what it was but as if the way the words connected to each other or stood alone created a space of their own. I felt that space would be likely to be drowned if put to music. The one I felt was lyric felt as if something was missing - something was going on but the words needed something to lean on: I guessed that might be the music. I lost track of the thread, or maybe I just misunderstood what was going on - maybe the result was that all were poems, none lyrics. However, I think most people agreed on which pieces were likely to be poetry and which ones lyric. I'm no expert in poetry, and for all I know what Aleda says may be wrong but I think it makes sense to think that very good poetry can be drowned by being put to music, but that bad poetry can be lifted up and enhanced by being put to music. I think Jeff put this very well in his email earlier on. This is a general statement, and the truth if there is one is surely more complex than that. I feel that very often arguments arise over general statements like this - because they provoke statements to the contrary. Such as: oh but this or that excellent poem was put to music... and so on. I'm not saying there isn't a wider truth out there, just that this makes sense. Does this seem outrageous to you....? I'm curious, because I sometimes don't understand the things people get upset about here. Of all places... Best Bene Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' Aleda, Whadda'ya tryin' to say? That Joni's version of Yeats' poem, 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem,' in song, fails because it's a first rate poem? Joni's adaptation of Kipling's 'If,' is okay by you because it's only a fifth rate poem? - --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:13:23 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Frida Kahlo, njc One really amazing book that I picked up ten or fifteen years ago is a facsimile of Kahlo's notebooks. Lots of drawings and collage and some text, all of it amazingly beautiful. Not sure if it's still in print, but definitely worth pursuing. Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:20:05 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: If, and all the 'adaptations' NJC Okay, Aleda, again, before I go, let's just say you are perfectly correct in everything you do and say, okay? You're a sophisticated intellectual and I'm the ignorant dumb-ass, satisfied? You're not the critic but I'm the hypocrite, how's that? You win with Yeats and I lose with Joni. Besides, I'm just major negative nag-hag who practices a religion out of hating anything I don't agree with like Ayn Rand. And, yes, Ayn Rand was also a strange one and I just find it even weirder that you were getting off to her at thirteen!?! You talk in statistics for this and that concerning the disapproval by first rate poetic critics, who would be appalled over Joni's dishonorable manhandling and destruction of Yeats' sacred poem. I'd like to know how many thirteen year olds there are out there in the whole wide world who would be getting off to Ayn Rand? Even if they're the sons and daughters of great intellects such as yourself, how many thirteen year olds would actually want to grasp what Ayn Rand was all about? Help me understand, Aleda! This little ignoramous wants to know. Peace and More Peace, Jean PS: And Hayden's last name is Herrera's, not Herrara, just to keep everything exact, perfect and precise like you like it, okay? My book was reprinted in Perennial 2002. I quit now, Aleda. You're absolutely right and much to intelligent and I gotta go and not respond to this thread anymore, besides, I do stay clear from those who leech the light out of any room and who wilt the grass they walk on. PS2: You wanna discuss Carlos Santana, maybe? Later, possibly? ;) We may find some common ground where the grass don't wilt because it's astroturf and the light is just a fixture on the ceiling, that's all! I'm late over Yeats, again and again. ajfashion@att.net wrote: -------------- Original message from jeannie : -------------- [several snips] > You don't get me, Aleda. I'm looking beyond all old rules of an ancient game. > > Maybe one day you'll hear clear-headedly beyond all the cheapening sounds you > hear through Kipling's fifth rate sappiness, or through Ayn Rand's pathology, or > Joni's STB, and all of the negative things you hear through my cheapening > stupidities, I imagine, being the poetic critic you are and the dwelling in it > that comes with the critic's package deal. ??????? I have no idea what you're saying in the paragraph above. One day I'll "hear clear-headedly beyond all the cheapening sounds [I] hear through Kipling fifth-rate sappiness". . . . This sentence is incomprehensible. Let me say one thing though: I am not a poetic critic. I am not a "justafiable" [???] critic. Or a poetry critic. Or a critic of poetry. Or a critic of anything. I am merely a human being who likes to think about things deeply, and to try to express those thoughts as clearly and articulately as I can. > > If I could think like you, the justafiable critic, I could also learn how to > listen to Joni in a sleezy like style as she destructs Slouching Towards > Bethlehem in disgust. "Sleezy?" "Sleazy?" Are you suggesting that because I don't like that song that I am listening to it in a sleazy style? That makes no sense. Does not liking a work of art mean one is perceiving it in a sleasy like style? What _is_ a sleazy like style? > > But, I can't Aleda. I can't help but love the way Joni sings that song. That's fine. I don't have any problem with anyone liking that song. I don't have any problem with anyone liking any Joni Mitchell song. Why do you have a problem with my not liking it? > And, maybe you can use a signature stating your disapproval with Joni's > meddling into Yeats' masterpiece and destroying it, and that way you know your > Yeats stands clearly separated from Joni causing the poem any more harm and you > won't have to dwell in defense of your mean ol' daddy, W.B. Yeats any longer. Look, the subject comes up on the list and I respond to it. It's by no means the center of my life. Neither is Yeats or Mitchell for that matter. (And I don't "do" sigs.) > > You were reading Ayn Rand at thirteen? > I can't imagine any 13 year old kid interested in Ayn Rand. > Now, that sounds strange. > I'm interested to know why you find Ayn Rand pathological and as of when into > her studies and after what work of hers you were exposed to, made you come to > the conclusion of a pathological Ayn Rand. I first read Anthem, then We the Living, then The Fountainhead, then Atlas Shrugged. Then her nonfiction books (The Virtue of Selfishness and others whose titles have, mercifully, been lost to the mists of time.) I also read Anna Karenina when I was thirteen. And Romeo and Juliet and Julius Caesar and I tried to read Hamlet. I also read Nancy Drew. What can I say?--I was a kid who liked to read. This is neither the time nor the place to go into why I think Rand is pathological. You might want to check into the memoirs of Nathaniel Branden and Barbara Branden if you're interested in this topic. I'm not exactly going out on a limb in this conclusion; Rand was, as it were, pretty bent in many, many ways. Not sure why it's important to you, but as I recall I came to the conclusion Rand's philosophy was 'disturbing' by the time I was 16. Details of her personal life only came to light much later (thus my from-a-distance diagnosis of her pathology). > > And now, how did, "poor Frida" get into my post? > I put her there, Aleda! > That is how la pobresita de Frida got there. > > Three decades with Frida and three with Joni, too? > Now that sounds cool! > > The book you mentioned, 'Frida-A Biography of Frida Kahlo' by Hayden Herrera > is far from my favorite reference. And, a couple nights ago, even my son > mentioned the tackiness of the book cover with Salma Hayak's picture on it and > not Frida's. That a major turn-off though I can appreciate Hayden Herrera's > total immersion into Frida's world and the time it took for her her to research > so many, many minor details that makes the book feel not all that inviting. My copy of this book is copyrighted in 1983, so it came out before (what I like to call) the Madonna-ization of Kahlo. There's a Kahlo self-portrait on the cover of mine. I'm sure Herrara's publisher decided to cash in on the people whose first exposure to Kahlo was from the Julie Taymor film. So don't blame Herrara for the Salma Hayak picture. Herrara's is, for now, the definitive biography of Kahlo. I'm sure as time goes by there will be others. I, too, have many other books on Kahlo, including a cookbook! I guess what I find bewildering is how a couple of people who post on this list display what comes off as a rather anti- intellectual stand. When I love an artist (whether it be Joni Mitchell or Frida Kahlo or Dante--whom I'm currently immersed in), I like to find out as much I can about that person and his or her work. I like to be exposed to opinions that are in concert with mine and opinions that are not-- because that's how I learn. I am incredibly ignorant about some of the finer points of music--the use of instruments, the more complex aspects of Mitchell's compositions and arrangements--and yet I'm thrilled to read posts on the list by people who know about these things, especially those by musicians or music critics. Those posts widen and enrich my appreciation of Mitchell. If someone wrote about the use of piano, as opposed to guitar, in a Mitchell song I loved, I certainly wouldn't take that person to the woodshed for sharing sophisticated musical knowledge about a song I'm crazy about. I'd be--and have been--grateful to learn something. Aleda - --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #395 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------