From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #363 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 16 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 363 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Subject: for the record NJC ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) [Bruce Eggleston ] Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) [ajfashion@att.net] sjc, Sometimes we do [Patti Parlette ] Re: using Shine lyrics already NJC now bumperstickers [Patti Parlette ] njc, Wesley Clark endorses Hillary Clinton [Patti Parlette ] Re: njc, Wesley Clark endorses Hillary Clinton ["gene" ] the name game, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Prince Gig last night njc [missblux@googlemail.com] the name game 2, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] poem and lyric, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) ["Randy Remote" ] RE: the name game 2, njc ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: the name game, njc [Bob Muller ] Re: poem and lyric, njc [ajfashion@att.net] Tolerance, tolerance, tol... njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Subject: for the record NJC I'm a poet I know it Hope I don't blow it - -Bob Dylan '64 > I remember someone put the question to the English > teacher: Is Bob Dylan a poet? > The teacher shrugged. Of course Bob Dylan > is a poet, he said. Hes a bad poet. > ------------------------------------------------ > Mark L. Levinson - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:28:35 -0600 From: Bruce Eggleston Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) I have always tracked Steveland Morris like a kinsman I have never met. We are the same age and his "Fingertips, Pt. 2" was one my first introductions to R 'n' B, so I have followed his career from nearly the beginning. I have never seen Stevie, and this ranks on top of my list of people I'd like to see before it is too late. I consider him one of the great musical geniuses of my generation, clearly up there with Joni, John and Paul, Bob, Van, Frank Zappa and Brian Wilson. I'm also certain that those other artists have a deep appreciation for Mr. Wonder's art. Stevie has made at least three albums that would each qualify him for immortality on their own, had he made no others, and they are "Talking Book", "Innervisions", and "Fullfillingness' First Finale"; O.K., a fourth, "Songs In the Key of Life", as well. His vision/art has been focused, expansive and fully realized over many great works. He was also astute enough to gain control of his own intellectual property early on and realized great freedom to create on his own terms. Mr. Wonder is one of the most potently talented artists of our time, as he excels in song-writing, singing, many instruments and record production. I am at a loss to name another at his level in all these pursuits. The two who approach this degree of accomplishment are Van Morrison and Brian Wilson, but Mr. Wonder's talents in each category are deep and many faceted. Joni is close, but she has not solely produced many of her records, co- producing most in the later years, and having others produce in the early years. Stevie's art will endure to inspire many generations of musicians and artists interested in great musical ideas, truth, justice and freedom. Bonneville Bruce P.S. I have always used "Talking Book" as my sonic benchmark for testing speakers and stereo equipment, because all you need to know about recorded sound is on that record. > Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:06:10 -0400 > From: Victor Johnson > Subject: Stevie Wonder (njc) > > He played everything...over two hours. Just one of the most amazing > experiences I have ever had. Such a great speaker as well as a > phenomenal performer. > > Love's in need of love today........ > > Stop all the hate from going around. > > blissfully, > > Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:32:18 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) To misquote Clinton "ah feel your joy", having seen Stevie in the 80's (John Lee Hooker joined him for a song). Glad you had a good one, and... From: "Victor Johnson" > I will post soon about making this recording available to the list. Okay, you said it, you gotta do it! ps and self promotion : I will be musical guest between 1 and 3 pm pacific for the return of the famous no-name band on http://www.kmud.org ...using my stage name, of course ; ) they have live streaming or if you miss it you can find it in their audio archives. pps Lyricist Sheila Davis has a great book called "The Craft of Lyric Writing" (which, by the way is a great read even for seasoned songwriters)-that was where I first encountered the notion that lyrics are not poetry, and poems are not lyrics. I'm sure there is some spillover, though, and that some of Dylan's stuff (Bob, that is) are GOOD poetry. I knew a man, his brain so small, He couldn't think of nothin' at all. He's not the same as you and me. He doesn't dig poetry. He's so unhip that When you say Dylan, he thinks you're talkin' about Dylan Thomas, Whoever he was. The man ain't got no culture, But its alright, ma, Everybody must get stoned.RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:46:01 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) - -------------- Original message from Bruce Eggleston : -------------- > > Stevie's art will endure to inspire many generations of musicians and > artists interested in great musical ideas, truth, justice and freedom. Couldn't agree more. I love love love Stevie Wonder. I'm especially fond--for personal associations--with the love songs on "Hotter than July." - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:15:33 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: sjc, Sometimes we do "Up over the hill Jovial neighbors come down when they will": Salutations, Queen Lulu! You wrote, in part: "I would imagine that those of us who quote Joni daily do not SING the lyrics as they are being said..good God that would be tooo really strange, especially if you dont have Joni's phraseology or pitch." Ummmmmmmmmm, well...... Sometimes they do Yes sometimes we do! ("tooo really strange", LOL, guilty as charged!) Not most of the time, of course. But sometimes, suddenly, it just happens. Like one time when mean ole Boopsie came into my office and said, looking puzzled and forgetful: "Hmmm, I'm looking for something..." and I rose from my desk and broke into song: "Looking for something, what can it be Oh I hate you some, I hate you some, I love you some Oh I love you when I forget about me I want to be strong I want to laugh along I want to belong to the living Alive, alive, I want to get up and jive I want to wreck my stockings in some juke box dive Do you want - do you want - do you want to dance with me baby..." As I went to grab her hands to dance, she fled from the office screaming, hands over her ears: "OMG! Now she's SINGING Joni!" Hey, you'd sing, too, if it happened to you! It's my office and I'll sing if I want to, sing if I want to, sing if I want to..... (Lesley Gore) Yes sometimes we do We have a rocking chair Each of us rocks his share Eating muffin buns and berries By the steamy kitchen window Sometimes we do Our tongues turn blue Sisotowbell Lane Anywhere else now would seem very strange The seasons are changing Everyday in everyway Sometimes it is spring Sometimes it is not anything A poet can sing Sometimes we try Yes we always try Good vibrations to everyone, Patti P. JFPOMTV: Huskies 22, Temple 17. Yay, Huskies! Now 3-0....we haven't had that 3-0 spirit here since 1999. Good luck to your Gators now, Jimmy, and sorry about your Tar Heels loss, Bob and Joseph. Patti P. NPOMTV: _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:43:05 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Re: using Shine lyrics already NJC now bumperstickers Hi AJ and all: Pardon me for being late with this....I half-wrote it the other day and then got interrupted and never sent it. AJ had written: This is one reason I don't do bumper stickers, political or otherwise (my husband would have an Auburn sticker on the cars if I'd let him but since SEC football is religion in the deep south you never know). Not only do I fear hostility of the kind you experienced, but I also think it might well make the difference in whether or not I could talk a policeman out of giving me a ticket (something I'm very good at). I have made an exception for my best friend's husband, who is running for state senate. Glad you weren't hurt by this pyscho. ------- I haven't done bumperstickers much either in the past 30 years. Not since that "Let's Impeach the President. Now more than ever." one that was on the Volvo we rode in to see Jon"i so many times in 1974. I bought it from an ad in Rolling Stone for a dollar. (Wish I could say "a dollar and half" but that would be a lie, and Joni and I never lie!) ("Joni Mitchell never lies" is a great bumper sticker that Em had done.) I even refused to put on the "My child made the honor student at Mansfield Middle School" ones, much to my boys' disappointment. (I let them know in other ways that I was feeling proud: to say I love you, right out loud.) And, LOL, the counter ones to those cracked me up: "My kid can beat the crap out of your honor student." "My kid sold 7 candy bars for the band fundraiser." Heck, I didn't even put a Lamont sticker on my car last year! And I worked really hard for him. (I thought the two big LAMONT signs in the backseat windows were enough. ) I think Dennis Kucinich's (sp?) bumpersticker is the only one with the word "peace" on it this season. In 2003 I relented and stuck on "Another Mother For Peace". Desperate times call for desperate measures. I thought it was pretty benign, though. Kind of mom and apple pie and all. But that car died and went to Terry's Transmissions. But the two I have now, I am proud of. My youngest son was freaked out when he saw them, however. He said: "MOM! You're not going to be one of those "bumper sticker" people, are you?" I have a University of Connecticut Alumni/Go Huskies license plate frame. And funny synchronicity. This morning as I was driving into work, I passed a philosophy professor riding in on his bike. In the rear view mirror, smack dab in the middle of those two anti-war bumperstickers taped to my back window, I saw him in his bright yellow wind jacket giving an enthusiastic "thumbs up" against the background of a blue blue sky. A Kodak moment! And any reason to resume. Peace, Patti P. P.S. My vote for the worst bumpersticker EVER? The one Muller saw once. "Give war a chance." _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Listen to Joni's "Night Of The Iguana" http://tinyurl.com/3bcdnw I, for one, love it - especially that snaky electric guitar... Bob NP: Duh! - --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:05:46 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Wesley Clark endorses Hillary Clinton Wow. I just got an email from my "freakin' general" friend Wesley Clark: "Dear Patti, Today, I am proud to announce my endorsement of Senator Hillary Clinton as President of the United States." If anyone wants the whole letter, let me know off-list. I don't want to take up too much space, especially w/ politics. Peace, Patti P., who hasn't "endorsed" anyone yet (ha ha....Who do you think you are? Kitty Wells?) P.S. Has Joni ever endorsed/supported anyone, besides George McGovern? _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:02:43 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: Prince Gig last night njc yeah, i went with a small posse of people who all know of my joni 'affiliation' and there was a collective 'oh my god, it's joni. someone get a glass of water for mr ross!' prince really burnt the place down. the man knows how to put on a show (two hours worth of well known hits plus 'guitar' from his latest) and then after the lights had been up and the place emptying, fifteen minutes later he comes back on and did another encore. THEN he repaired to O2 Indigo a much smaller venue though part of the main arena complex where he treated the audience (the ticket-buying public) to two further hours of jamming and tunes from Led Zep and The Beatles. of course, it being a 'school night' i'd headed off home missing all the extra partying. oh well. one of the tunes played during the main event has to be the most 'covered' tune in the last couple of years. gnarls berkely's 'crazy'. at the last shawn colvin gig i went to, she played it too. corrine bailey rae covered it when i saw her at the V festival a month or so ago. never liked the tune and have no idea what the fuss is about that one. anyhoo. later les (london) - -----Original Message----- From: missblux@googlemail.com To: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk; Joni LIST Sent: 9/15/2007 8:59 AM Subject: Prince Gig last night sjc Hi Les! Just how cool is that! I didn't know about the Prince gigs, but then I don't live in the UK any longer... I jsut read about how he wanted his London hotel room all in black, including an M&M machine and an oxygen bar. How weird to be such a health freak that you want an oxygen bar, and still you eat M&M's. The Joni clip sounds like one we've seen before where she was wearing lots of make-up and looked really startling; she says he throws the best parties and that she is in fact missing one right now, doesn't she. I think he won an award last year, and various artists sent their greetings. Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:29:31 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: njc, Wesley Clark endorses Hillary Clinton Hot Damn!!! Is this for real? Obama or Hillary , just so one of them make it there-----it would be a great ticket if they both went as a team. gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Parlette" To: Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: njc, Wesley Clark endorses Hillary Clinton > Wow. I just got an email from my "freakin' general" friend Wesley Clark: > > "Dear Patti, > > Today, I am proud to announce my endorsement of Senator Hillary Clinton as > President of the United States." > > If anyone wants the whole letter, let me know off-list. I don't want to > take up too much space, especially w/ politics. > > Peace, > > Patti P., who hasn't "endorsed" anyone yet (ha ha....Who do you think you > are? Kitty Wells?) > > P.S. Has Joni ever endorsed/supported anyone, besides George McGovern? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Capture your memories in an online journal! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > !DSPAM:144,46ec4ac8286821208317035! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:59:47 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: the name game, njc She wrote: > By the way, Marion is usually a female name, despite the fact that you > think > you know better even on that subject. So much for formalism. > Have a good life, > Marion > MARION (1) Gender: Feminine Usage: English Pronounced: MER-ee-un [key] Medieval French pet form of MARY. This name was borne in legend by Maid Marion, Robin Hood's love. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:38:45 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Prince Gig last night njc That is not just cool that is amazingly cool! I need to get out more...! Bene On 9/16/07, Ross, Les wrote: > > > > yeah, i went with a small posse of people who all know of my joni > 'affiliation' and there was a collective 'oh my god, it's joni. someone get > a glass of water for mr ross!' > > prince really burnt the place down. the man knows how to put on a show (two > hours worth of well known hits plus 'guitar' from his latest) and then after > the lights had been up and the place emptying, fifteen minutes later he > comes back on and did another encore. THEN he repaired to O2 Indigo a much > smaller venue though part of the main arena complex where he treated the > audience (the ticket-buying public) to two further hours of jamming and > tunes from Led Zep and The Beatles. of course, it being a 'school night' > i'd headed off home missing all the extra partying. oh well. > > one of the tunes played during the main event has to be the most 'covered' > tune in the last couple of years. gnarls berkely's 'crazy'. at the last > shawn colvin gig i went to, she played it too. corrine bailey rae covered it > when i saw her at the V festival a month or so ago. never liked the tune and > have no idea what the fuss is about that one. > > anyhoo. > > later > les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:02:38 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: the name game 2, njc He wrote: > My gender assumption came from the spelling of your first name. Like > Francis > and Frances Marion is ordinarily male and Marian is ordinarily female . > MARIAN (2) Gender: Masculine Usage: Polish, Czech, Romanian Pronounced: MAHR-yahn (Polish) [key] Polish, Czech and Romanian form of MARIANUS ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:26:09 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: poem and lyric, njc po7em (pm) n. 1. A verbal composition designed to convey experiences, ideas, or emotions in a vivid and imaginative way, characterized by the use of language chosen for its sound and suggestive power and by the use of literary techniques such as meter, metaphor, and rhyme. 2. A composition in verse rather than in prose. 3. A literary composition written with an intensity or beauty of language more characteristic of poetry than of prose. 4. A creation, object, or experience having beauty suggestive of poetry. [French pohme, from Old French, from Latin poma, from Greek poima, from poiein, to create; see kwei-2 in Indo-European roots.] lyr7ic (lrk) adj. 1. a. Of or relating to a category of poetry that expresses subjective thoughts and feelings, often in a songlike style or form. b. Relating to or constituting a poem in this category, such as a sonnet or an ode. c. Of or relating to a writer of poems in this category. 2. Lyrical. 3. Music a. Having a singing voice of light volume and modest range. b. Of, relating to, or being musical drama, especially opera: the lyric stage. c. Having a pleasing succession of sounds; melodious. d. Of or relating to the lyre or harp. e. Appropriate for accompaniment by the lyre. n. 1. A lyric poem. 2. Music The words of a song. Often used in the plural. [French lyrique, of a lyre, from Old French, from Latin lyricus, from Greek lurikos, from lura, lyre.] ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:49:16 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (njc) Forgot to attribute: Paul Simon (not the one with the bowtie who looks like Orville Reddinbacker) > I knew a man, his brain so small, > He couldn't think of nothin' at all. > He's not the same as you and me. > He doesn't dig poetry. He's so unhip that > When you say Dylan, he thinks you're talkin' about Dylan Thomas, > Whoever he was. > The man ain't got no culture, > But its alright, ma, > Everybody must get stoned. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:04:57 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: the name game 2, njc Except in the United States, where MARION--the real first name of John Wayne, Pat Robertson, the infamous former mayor of Washington DC is distinguished from Maid Marian, or Marian----madame librarian. The reason for MariOn as masculine in the US is possibly related to male children being named after Francis Marion, the "Swamp Fox" from the land of Muller. Francis Marion has two gender ambiguous names! It was an honest mistake, though I may justly be accused of being an Ugly American. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of LCStanley7@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: the name game 2, njc He wrote: > My gender assumption came from the spelling of your first name. Like > Francis > and Frances Marion is ordinarily male and Marian is ordinarily female . > MARIAN (2) Gender: Masculine Usage: Polish, Czech, Romanian Pronounced: MAHR-yahn (Polish) [key] Polish, Czech and Romanian form of MARIANUS ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:10:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: the name game, njc John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison, prompting these Stan Ridgway lyrics: "John Wayne was always bald And he had a woman's name" Bob NP: Gail Martin, "I Had A King" - --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 02:42:33 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: poem and lyric, njc I imagine I'm not the only person on this list who is now looking forward to the 25th for reasons other than getting to hear "Shine." Maybe then we can let this thread die (and, yes, I know I am more guilty than anyone in keeping it going). Dictionary definitions don't really prove anything. There's a great passage, maybe by Mark Twain, about the difference between a description of an elephant and an elephant itself. Some of us believe lyrics aren't poems, and feel pretty passionately about it. Some of us believe they are the same thing. It's all fine with me--I mean I can disagree with people and still remain amicable about most things. I'd probably feel a little more comfortable about this entire discussion if one person who thinks lyrics and poems are the same thing would discuss, convincingly, how "Bad Dreams" is a good poem. At any rate, I'm glad to be here, and will be gladder still when we have the new CD to discuss. Actual Joni content: I was out to dinner tonight with my husband and a consultant from Austin who's an expert in green architecture and when I snuck to the bar for a smoke (yeah, I know, but Joni still smokes), I ran into a friend of mine. I said something about Shine coming out and he immediately said the Hancock tribute was coming out the same day! I was happy to tell him I already had both pre-ordered. (This guy is the only person I've ever known, except for myself, who has owned the Gato Barbieri music from Last Tango in album, cassette, and CD, so we have a few odd things in common.) - --AJ - -------------- Original message from LCStanley7@aol.com: -------------- > po7em (pm) > n. > 1. A verbal composition designed to convey experiences, ideas, or emotions in > a vivid and imaginative way, characterized by the use of language chosen for > its sound and suggestive power and by the use of literary techniques such as > meter, metaphor, and rhyme. > 2. A composition in verse rather than in prose. > 3. A literary composition written with an intensity or beauty of language > more characteristic of poetry than of prose. > 4. A creation, object, or experience having beauty suggestive of poetry. > > > [French pohme, from Old French, from Latin poma, from Greek poima, from > poiein, to create; see kwei-2 in Indo-European roots.] > > > > > lyr7ic (lrk) > adj. > 1. > a. Of or relating to a category of poetry that expresses subjective thoughts > and feelings, often in a songlike style or form. > b. Relating to or constituting a poem in this category, such as a sonnet or > an ode. > c. Of or relating to a writer of poems in this category. > > 2. Lyrical. > 3. Music > a. Having a singing voice of light volume and modest range. > b. Of, relating to, or being musical drama, especially opera: the lyric > stage. > c. Having a pleasing succession of sounds; melodious. > d. Of or relating to the lyre or harp. > e. Appropriate for accompaniment by the lyre. > > > n. > 1. A lyric poem. > 2. Music The words of a song. Often used in the plural. > > [French lyrique, of a lyre, from Old French, from Latin lyricus, from Greek > lurikos, from lura, lyre.] > > > > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:32:01 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Tolerance, tolerance, tol... njc I agree with AJ. I was close to getting thrown off the JMDL one time so I know how it feels to get over-involved in a conversation. I'm not the list admin but here's some friendly advice: No one ever got thrown off for taking a break. I think everyone who's still around has taken breaks now and again. Jim AJ, the wise said, >I find it pretty incredible that this discussion is being dismissed as something that should be discussed in a classroom. What I really don't understand is the level of hostility, albeit civil and polite, about this discussion.> ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #363 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------