From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #337 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 28 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 337 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC reindeer [missblux@googlemail.com] woooooooooow! ["Pamela" ] All We Are Saying - A Rosanna Arquette Exoerience [simon@icu.com] Joni meets Jimi [simon@icu.com] Joni, Jimi & The Generation Club [simon@icu.com] Re: woooooooooow! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: All We Are Saying - A Rosanna Arquette Exoerience [Bob.Muller@Fluor.c] Re: Joni images [Motitan@aol.com] Re: Allman Bros/Black Crowes (njc) [Victor Johnson ] Joni & Leonard Cohen [simon@icu.com] with a mouth like yours [simon@icu.com] Re: with a mouth like yours ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Joni SongBook [simon@icu.com] Apologies to Gerald A. Notaro [simon@icu.com] Nathan ? [simon@icu.com] Joni's "Song To A Seagull" [simon@icu.com] A mouth like yours [KEVIN DOHENY ] 'Death Grip' from The New Republic [Jordy ] Joni Remixed [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Joni Remixed [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: 'Death Grip' from The New Republic (NJC) [Victor Johnson ] Auction's end: Joni signed print. VOICES show [Kerry ] Let's hear it for Miss South Carolina! -- njc ["Patti Parlette" Subject: woooooooooow! I don' t know exactly which are my 3 best moments about joni, but this is surely one of them! her new album!!! I listen to joni since about 2 years ago, and i've fallen in love....i'm a singer, and i sing her songs around my place because here (italy) nobody knows her! (only a few fond of music) and i want to bring her message to everybody (that can understand...) i've never thought i have the opportunity to live this moment, because i knew that he left the music scene....but she did !! and i'm here waiting! maybe she's going to perform again! i wanted to share this beautiful moment with you, thank you. i love her and i love you all!! i hope i didn't do too much mistakes, sorry 'cause i'm italian and i'm very excited, too. pamela luccarelli ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:07:07 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: All We Are Saying - A Rosanna Arquette Exoerience Re: a post from Randy Remote > Subject: Joni Mitchell in "All We Are Saying"] > > Great film-don't know if you noticed, Pat, this post is from 2005 > the movie has been on cable numerous times-I'm sure it's on DVD, > too. Randy says check it out. sorry but, No this program has not yet been issued on DVD. i doubt it will. Rosanna Arquette interviewed Joni at home in Los Angeles on May 3, 2004. the program debuted on the Showtime cable channel on March 8, 2006. it's been shown a number of times since. here's the program description: Nearly 55 of the biggest names in music deliberate on the current state of the industry, work/life balance, and their personal inspirations in the revealing new documentary ALL WE ARE SAYING. you can read more about the film, view a video clip, photos and access other interviews at: http://www.allwearesaying.net/ andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsabout.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsfeaturing.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:10:05 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni meets Jimi RE: Joni meets Jimi > "I met Jimi Hendrix at the Capitol Theatre in Ottawa, and after > his set, he came down, and he brought a big reel-to reel tape > recorder. He introduced himself very shyly and said, "Would you > mind if I taped your show?" I said, not at all. > > Joni Mitchell as i point out in "Joni Mitchell: A Chronology Of Appearances" Jimi's recorder AND tapes were stolen several days later along with the other contents in his equipment truck. the recordings are not in the vaults at Experience Hendrix and they weren't purchased privately by Paul Allen (of Microsoft). they would have had no value to the thieves and in all likelihood ended up in a dumpster. Joni's 2-Week engagement at Le Hibou is interesting for a number of reasons. she on opened March 12, 1968 shortly after completion of recording sessions for her first album "Song To A Seagull" i'd seen Joni earlier that year at the Club 47 in Cambridge, MA. when she informed the audience that she'd recently signed a recording contract with Reprise Records and would soon begin recording her first album. that was welcome news. some of us had been waiting almost a year for news of a recording contract. it's interesting to note, in this day and age when musicians often take up to a year (or more) to complete an album, here we have Joni beginning sometime in January and by Marth 12th, she's finished. but then that first album was a long time comin'. first albums usually are. in event ... during Joni's stay at Le Hibou, The Hollies were also in town. it was during THIS engagement that Joni met Graham Nash. he looked her up on the recommendation of his friend David Crosby who'd met Joni the previous Oct. the rest as they say ... andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsabout.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsfeaturing.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:11:10 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni, Jimi & The Generation Club Richard Flynn writes > There is also footage out there in trading circles from the unreleased > Pennebaker film when they both played the Generation Club about > 3 weeks later for the Wake for Martin Luther King, Jr. poorly lit and poorly shot, the film does contain one song by Joni, "Sisotowbell Lane" (Somehow In Spite Of Trouble, Ours Will Be EverLasting Love) footage of Janis Joplin, from the Generation Club, was used in the 1991 film "Janis Joplin: Comin' Home" (28 min. color) located at 52 West 8th Street, NYC, the Generation Club was later purchased by Jimi Hendrix and his manager Michael Jeffery. after cancelling their original plans to reopen the club, extensive renovations were undertaken, recording equipment was installed, and the club was renamed "Electric Lady Studio". it's still in operation today. one of the premier recording studios in NYC. portions of Joni's "Mingus" album were recorded at Electric Lady. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Lady_Studios http://www.electricladystudios.com/ andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsabout.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsfeaturing.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:42:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: woooooooooow! Your English is wonderful, Pamela - as is your excitement. I'm pretty excited myself. And there are plenty of Joni fans in Italia, so keep singing and looking. There used to be a Joni cover band called "Shadows & Light", I'm not sure if they are still working though. Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "The Battle of Evermore" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:02:18 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: All We Are Saying - A Rosanna Arquette Exoerience Not commercially, but a DVD was created for distribution to Emmy voters. It is easily obtained on ebay. http://tinyurl.com/2q456b Bob NP: The Allman Bros, "Les Brer in A Minor" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:14:53 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni images Hey, thanks for the link to those images. It was all very interesting to see but I have to admit, like some people on this list, I'm not so sure what to make of the Joni one. - -monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:08:32 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Allman Bros/Black Crowes (njc) On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > NP: The Allman Bros, "Les Brer in A Minor" Saw the Black Crowes at Chastain last night and they were smoking! Jimmy Herring sat in near the end and they did a nice version of "Dreams". Just a great band to see live if you want to hear some really good rock'n roll. They also did "Good Morning Little School Girl" which reminded me of Pigpen from the early Dead. The Black Crowes capture a similar kind of energy...Chris Robinson can really belt it out. A nice double encore too of "She Talks to Angels" and "Shapes of Things" (Yardbirds) which surprised me but was cool. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:41:42 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni meets Jimi Hi Simon Thanks for responding on this topic. I found a plethora of Hendrix recordings from that era and have been going thru them. When I think of all the tapes that might have ended up in the dumpster it makes me sick. Damn thieves! Anyway with the internet being so vast I always hold a glimmer of hope to be able to find something new from the past. I use to like to dig in the ruins on my dads farm in Honduras to look for arrow heads and pottery etc from the Mayan civilization. Oh well, at least we have the new new stuff to look forward to. Have you heard anything about the corrections to the Joni Songbook that was pulled and if it is going to be released again?? Be well. Best Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:10 AM, simon@icu.com wrote: RE: Joni meets Jimi > "I met Jimi Hendrix at the Capitol Theatre in Ottawa, and after > his set, he came down, and he brought a big reel-to reel tape > recorder. He introduced himself very shyly and said, "Would you > mind if I taped your show?" I said, not at all. > > Joni Mitchell as i point out in "Joni Mitchell: A Chronology Of Appearances" Jimi's recorder AND tapes were stolen several days later along with the other contents in his equipment truck. the recordings are not in the vaults at Experience Hendrix and they weren't purchased privately by Paul Allen (of Microsoft). they would have had no value to the thieves and in all likelihood ended up in a dumpster. Joni's 2-Week engagement at Le Hibou is interesting for a number of reasons. she on opened March 12, 1968 shortly after completion of recording sessions for her first album "Song To A Seagull" i'd seen Joni earlier that year at the Club 47 in Cambridge, MA. when she informed the audience that she'd recently signed a recording contract with Reprise Records and would soon begin recording her first album. that was welcome news. some of us had been waiting almost a year for news of a recording contract. it's interesting to note, in this day and age when musicians often take up to a year (or more) to complete an album, here we have Joni beginning sometime in January and by Marth 12th, she's finished. but then that first album was a long time comin'. first albums usually are. in event ... during Joni's stay at Le Hibou, The Hollies were also in town. it was during THIS engagement that Joni met Graham Nash. he looked her up on the recommendation of his friend David Crosby who'd met Joni the previous Oct. the rest as they say ... andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsabout.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsfeaturing.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:17:15 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni & Leonard Cohen Oddmund wrote inquiring about 2-Songs > JONI - RAINY NIGHT HOUSE: > > So you packed your tent and you went > to live out in the Arizona sand > You are a refugee > From a wealthy family > You gave up all the golden factories > To see who in the world you might be > > ----- > > COHEN - FAMOUS BLUE RAINCOAT: > > I hear your building your house deep in the desert > Your living for nothing now > I hope you're keeping some kind of record ... > >Listening to the ipod I suddenly traced a resembllence with these >two texts. Both Joni and Cohen sing about some person who has >retreated to his/her secret place - - - I started wondering if this >could be the same person. Most likey not > > > >and I've also heard from great my Joni scholar and friend Karen Marie, >that Cohen's Rainy Night House might have a connection with Joni. >So who in the world might help me with this one, if any? No they're not the same person. From: VARIOUS POSITIONS: A Life Of Leonard Cohen by Ira B. Nadel, (c) 1996 concerning events in 1959, the author writes: On the day he arrived in London, Cohen bought a typewriter, a green Olivetti 22, for #40, which would remain with him for years. He also acquired his "famous blue raincoat," a Burberry with epaulets. That too, remained with him until it was stolen from a New York loft in 1968. (pg.73) Also: The coat itself appears in the 1965 NFB Film, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN . . . Mr. Leonard Cohen. (pg.73) as for RAINY NIGHT HOUSE? here's a little something from the JMDL Archives >Date: Mon. Feb. 23, 1998 > >From: > >VARIOUS POSITIONS: A Life Of Leonard Cohen >by Ira B. Nadel, (c) 1996 > > Following his father's death, Cohen won a significant dispute with > his mother over custody of Nathan's pistol, a military souvenir. > Cohen had been fascinated by his father's military exploits and at > one time Nathan had spoken of sending Cohen to a military college, > an idea Cohen eagerly accepted. THE FAVORITE GAME describes the > dispute over the gun, presented as an important talisman: > a "huge .38 in a thick leather case ... Lethal, angular, precise, > it smoldered in the dark drawer with dangerous potential. > The metal was always cold." > > Cohen has always been fascinated by weapons, reflected in his novel > BEAUTIFUL LOSERS. "I loved the magic of guns," the character F. > declares. For several years Cohen himself kept a gun. In her lyric > to "Rainy Night House," Joni Mitchell describes how she and Cohen > took a taxi to his mother's house in Westmount during her absence: > "she went to Florida and left you with your father's gun alone." (pg.17) > ----- > > RAINY NIGHT HOUSE > > It was a rainy night > We took a taxi to your mother's home > She went to Florida and left you > With your father's gun, alone > Upon her small white bed > I fell into a dream > You sat up all the night and watched me > To see, who in the world I might be. > > I am from the Sunday school > I sing soprano in the upstairs choir > You are a holy man > On the F.M. radio > I sat up all the night and watched thee > To see, who in the world you might be. > > You called me beautiful > You called your mother--she was very tanned > So you packed your tent and went > To live out in the Arizona sand > You are a refugee > From a wealthy family > You gave up all the golden factories > To see, who in the world you might be. > >simon >------- hopefully that answers your question. still thinking 'bout the Joni/Leonard connection? check out "The Priest" on LOTC andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsabout.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsfeaturing.cfm "Now we rise, and we are everywhere" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:51:46 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: with a mouth like yours Kevin wrote > I had not really considered the religious overtones of the > "devil and deeds" whilst "be prepared to bleed" does indicate that > nothing short of a saint's patience and forebearance is required. > What is not clear is who the woman "with a mouth like yours" > is ... a real person or perhaps some imaginery creation of Joni's > torment as she struggles with the decision - should I stay or > should I go? > > I have always assumed that she did go as the opening line is > "Just before our love got lost ..." > > - is there any room for ambiguity on this point? No! not really. Joni was just not prepared to remain with with a junkie. "Constantly in the darkness? Where's that at?" Jerry Notaro wrote > It has been speculated on the list before that it is James Taylor's > sister. But as Joni has said so many times in interviews, the specifics > of who these people are of little consequence to her lyrics, as they > may or may not have existed. "I met a woman She had a mouth like yours She knew your Life She knew your devils and your deeds" sisters often Do! and James certainly had his demons. Jerry, it's not that "these people are of little consequence to her lyric" after all, they're often the inspiration. HER point is that the prurient interest of some listeners MISSES! the point. From: HOTEL CALIFORNIA, by Barney Hoskins "Assumptions were made in interpreting the lyrics, as they always are," Mitchell says. "All of that nonsense destroyed the ability of the listener to identify with songs." (pg.144) in an interview broadcast May 28, 1995 by NPR Weekend Edition, Joni told Liane Hansen: "But I think the point of the songs, I object to a certain degree that the public is more fascinated by the artist than the art form itself, and I think that the people who get the most out of my music see themselves in it." she also said: "Well, you know, I think the danger is confusing art with the artist. The songs are really designed, and some are autobiographical and some are portraits. Even if they're sung in the first person frequently they're portraits. So, a lot is written from identification, much of this historically." you can read the entire transcript at the following URL: http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1019 it is an interesting interview. she also performed three songs. it was the last time she performed using an acoustic guitar. 1. Sunny Sunday, 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. The Three Great Stimulants i think i've gone on long enough. later andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: with a mouth like yours Simon, Simon, Your editing of my quote is a bit of a misrepresentation. I did not infer that the people were of little consequence. What I said was "WHO" these people are is of little consequence. Big difference. Jerry simon@icu.com wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote > >> It has been speculated on the list before that it is James Taylor's >> sister. But as Joni has said so many times in interviews, the >> specifics >> of who these people are of little consequence to her lyrics, as >> they >> may or may not have existed. > > > "I met a woman > She had a mouth like yours > She knew your Life > She knew your devils and your deeds" > > sisters often Do! and James certainly had his demons. > > > Jerry, > > it's not that "these people are of little consequence to her lyric" > after all, they're often the inspiration. HER point is that the prurient > interest of some listeners MISSES! the point. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:07:17 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni SongBook Michael Paz writes > Have you heard anything about the corrections to the Joni Songbook > that was pulled and if it is going to be released again?? Be well. > > Best > Paz Michael, it just so happens that i had a long conversation with Joel last night. although the SongBook didn't come up, i do know that it won't be released this year (2007). it's a shame it was released, prematurely and without approval, in the first place. there are a number of other projects and only so many hours in the day. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:02:20 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Apologies to Gerald A. Notaro Jerry wrote > Simon, > > Your editing of my quote is a bit of a misrepresentation. > I did not infer that the people were of little consequence. > What I said was "WHO" these people are is of little consequence. > Big difference. > > Jerry Hey Jerry, sorry 'bout that. i did NOT intentionally edit your quote. i often cut 'n' paste text when writing these posts. the "WHO" evidently didn't make the cut and I didn't catch the mistake when i proof-read my own text. c'mon YOU know me better than that, don't you? BTW: my personal eMail messages to you have bounced since July. any idea why? andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:21:38 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Nathan ? J Kendel Johnson writes > Do you know if Le Hibou night manager Pierre-Paul Lafreniere > may have been the inspiration for the name of the song's title > character in "Nathan La Franeer"? although Joni's first appearances at Le Hibou (June 1967) pre-date the recording of her first album, i don't think it likely that Pierre-Paul Lafreniere was the inspiration. although i don't like to quote Joni without giving specific citations, I DO remember two statements from seperate interviews. 1. there was an individual, a girl child i think, (named Betty?) who was a childhood friend of Joni's. last name? LaFraneer. 2. Joni does mention being inspired by the name of a taxi driver in NYC. as best i can recall, HIS name was Nathan. i think she conflated the two. i'll get back to you and the JMDL whenever i have specific details. I DO remember that both interviews are spoken recordings. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simon http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:22:33 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni's "Song To A Seagull" J Kendel Johnson also wrote > Also, just as a point of accuracy -- I'm sure you were just > using the common, casual reference to Joni's first album -- > but it's actual title is, of course, "Joni Mitchell".) well ... as a matter of fact, i did use the actual title of Joni's first album. the confusion over the title has come up a number of times over the years. i put some information together back in 1997 it's been been posted a few times since and perhaps it's time to post it once again. here goes - it's long, perhaps too long. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - simon From: simon@icu.com Subject: (it IS!) SONG TO A SEAGULL! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:17:50 -0500 yesterday, David Marine wrote with an inquiry > ---------- > Subject: ... and the name of her first album ? > > Hey List: > > > > Also, at the end of the article cited, Joni talks about her first album: > > "Joni Mitchell was released in March 1968, and the first thing to >say about it > is to confirm that the title was Joni Mitchell. The album's cover, a painting > by Mitchell surrounding a tiny photograph of her, features a >grouping of birds > that spell out the words "Song To A Seagull," the title of one of the songs. > Not only has this led many people to call the album Song To A Seagull, but > several reputable rock'n' roll history books (one example being The Rolling > Stone Rock & Roll Encyclopedia, edited by Jon Pareles and Patricia Romanowski > [Rolling Stone Press/ Summit Books, 1983]) list two different >albums, one called > Joni Mitchell, the other Song To A Seagull. > > Mitchell, when informed of this, expressed surprise. "People can't see them," > she said of the birds, "and the 'L' [of Seagull] is cut off, 'cause even the > graphic department, they didn't see it either. It's called Joni Mitchell." > ---------- David then commented > Well, this is news to me. > I always thought it had been decided that the title was STAS. > Now I am, again, confused. David, you are correct. it has been established as 'a matter of fact' that the title of Joni Mitchell's 1st Album is SONG TO A SEAGULL. Always Has Been. as i'm sure you recall, this subject has come up before on a number of occasions. here's the information i posted last time around. To: joni@smoe.org From: simon@icu.com Subject: Song To A Seagull Date: late 1999 recently while catching up on a 2-month backlog of JMDL Digests, i noticed that the subject of Joni's 1st Album Title (#RS-6293) had come up again. this is inevitable as our JMDL community continues to grow and expand with the addition of new members. so, once again from the Archives ... Re: Joni Mitchell's 1st Album, titled!: "SONG TO A SEAGULL" Subject: SONG TO A SEAGULL Date: Fri. Aug. 15, 1997 previously, this past May, there was a thread dealing with questions and the confusion surrounding the title of Joni Mitchell's first album. on Fri. May 2, 1997 - DM posted ... > ---------- > Joni has said the first album is called "JONI MITCHELL". In his > interview with Wally, David Crosby says she was originally going > to call it SONG TO A SEAGULL but changed her mind. > ---------- "changed her mind?" NOT really, but i guess that's what Crosby thinks. later that day ... Bradley Fors posted ... > ---------- > Lastly, It doesn't say "SONG TO A SEAGULL" on the spine of the record. > Thus perhaps the confusion. But lets attempt to put the raging debate > to rest. The LP is called "SONG TO A SEAGULL". > ---------- Bradley is correct here, but it didn't end the debate. on Sun. May 4, 1997 DM posted ... > ---------- > I'll dig up the article where Joni says flatly "It was called Joni > Mitchell." In any case, whatever she was originally going to call > it, it IS called 'Joni Mitchell'. The authoritative source would > be the Library of Congress, and that's what it's called there. > > If you go by the LP cover, it should be called 'Soni to a Seagui' > because at least on my copy, the G and the LL's are cut off. > ---------- also on May 4, 1997 ... > ---------- > Title mystery solved > > The following is from the incredible 1995 Goldmine article, > "Joni Mitchell A-Gogh-Gogh." > > 'Joni Mitchell' was released in March 1968, and the first thing to say > about it is to confirm that the title was JONI MITCHELL. The album's > cover, a painting by Mitchell surrounding a tiny photograph of her, > features a grouping of birds that spell out the words SONG TO A SEAGULL > the title of one of the songs ... this led many people to call > the album SONG TO A SEAGULL. > > Mitchell, when informed of this, expressed surprise. "People can't > see them," she said of the birds, "and the L is cut off, cause even > the graphics department, they didn't see it either. > It's called 'Joni Mitchell'. > ---------- the Goldmine article is a cover-story, with a fantastic photo of Joni. although it does say Joni Mitchell A-Gogh-Gogh on the cover, the article is actually titled; "Joni Mitchell: From Blue To Indigo". though they may be authoritative in a number of areas, the Library of Congress is NOT the final authority on LP/CD titles. frankly i doubt whether they do anything more than list the title from the spine of an album or compact disc. NO, the authoritative source of an LP/CD title is the musician whose name is on the cover and/or the record company issuing the recording in the first place. in the case of Joni Mitchell's first album, the record company screwed up. the correct title SONG TO A SEAGULL never appeared on any vinyl edition. it also wasn't included on the first CD versions issued, although this oversight/mistake has finally been corrected. the remastered CD version is clearly identified as SONG TO A SEAGULL on both the spine of the jewel box and the face of the CD. [remastered *artwork* only]. OK: so that's where the thread ended. let's see if this can be cleared up once-and-for-all, to everyone's satisfaction. first off, DM does quote the Goldmine article accurately. it appeared in Issue #380 ~ Vol.21, No.4 ~ Feb. 17, 1995. now i've read Goldmine for years. their articles are well researched and well written. they also correct mistakes. that brings me to the first of six sources of information. - ---------- 1. GOLDMINE MAGAZINE ~ April 14, 1995 ~ LETTERS TO THE EDITOR. the following letter from William Ruhlmann, author of "Joni Mitchell: From Blue To Indigo", was printed with the boldface header ... BOTH SIDES NOW: MITCHELL and GEFFEN CLARIFY POINTS IN ARTICLE Two of the more careful readers of my article, "Joni Mitchell: From Blue To Indigo" (issue 380), were Joni Mitchell and David Geffen. Both of them have contacted me subsequently, and with their help i am able to clarify a few points made in the article. The article contained a description of the confusion surrounding the title of Mitchell's 1968 debut album. I pointed out that JONI MITCHELL is the 'official' title. Mitchell, however, wishes to note that SONG TO A SEAGULL was the title she intended for the album, though somehow that intention got lost when the album was being pressed, and the error has never been corrected. ----------------------------- 2. ICE MAGAZINE ~ September 1996 ~ The CD WATCHDOG Column We received a postcard mailed by Ben Testa of Brooklyn, NY, stating simply. "Some of the early Joni Mitchell catalog titles have stickers on them, saying they're repackaged with original artwork. Are they worth buying, and are they remastered as well?" But first things first. To find out about the new artwork, we contacted Robbie Cavolina, a freelance art director who works closely with Mitchell and who recently won a Grammy Award for designing her TURBULENT INDIDO CD. Robbie then says ..... "One important note to make, which isn't widely known: her first album is not called JONI MITCHELL, it's called SONG TO A SEAGULL, and it's correctly titled now. It's so nice to see these looking like they're supposed to." ------------------------- 3. CALIFORNIA ROCK - CALIFORNIA SOUND, (c) 1978 by Anthony Fawcett ~ Photographs by Henry Diltz In addition to an interesting Joni Chapter "Searching For Clarity", this book also contains a discography listing Joni Mitchell's albums thru 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'. it starts off with ... SONG TO A SEAGULL, 1967 (Reprise) --------------------------------- 4. CLUB 47 ~ CAMBRIDGE, MA. ~ Jan. 4, 1968 JONI: Introducing the song 'The Pirate Of Penance' says ... "I'm finally going to make -- I uh. I just signed my contract with Reprise, that's Repreese not Reprize, i learned how to say it right too, and uh -- it should be coming out some time this spring. and it should be kind of fun too, because it's -- well it's sort of a story. it's going to be called SONG TO A SEAGULL, which is a story, and all of the songs that make up the record repeat that story. and in the part where we take you down to the seaside -- it's called out of the city and down to the seaside section of the record -- some very strange stories of the sea happen and among them is a song that i wrote about -- well i don't really know what it's about. it's sort of, it's almost like suddenly in the song a character appeared to me that should be a dominate character some day in an operetta -- and so because it was sort of like a lead character in an operetta -- i took liberty with Gilbert & Sullivan and -- stole part of their title. i call this The Pirate Of Penance. i hope you like bad puns too." ------------------------------ 5. BILLBOARD MAGAZINE ~ December 9, 1995 "A Portrait Of The Artist" by Timothy White "Few musicians of her stature have undergone more private and public trials. At the beginning, she had to fend off imitators and detractors of both sexes, plus the persistent jealousy of an early '60s folk school whose post-Dylan commercial/artistic strides she almost singlehandedly eclipsed with three hugely influential Reprise albums (Joni Mitchell: SONG TO A SEAGULL, 1968; CLOUDS, 1969; LADIES OF THE CANYON, 1970)" ------------------------------------------- Last but *not* Least 6. THE 1969 WARNER-REPRISE RECORD SHOW Reprise #PRO-336 (2 LP Sampler - released 1970) this was the first in a series of 2-LP samplers sold by mail-order. it contained one song and two short (0:40) song introductions. the liner notes say ... "The Fiddle And The Drum." A song about wars fought by men and nations, sung without accompaniment for the very simple reason that Joni offered to her sold-out Carnegie Hall audience before she begins to. From her CLOUDS LP (Reprise 6341), which was preceded by SONG TO A SEAGULL (Reprise 6293) and followed by LADIES OF THE CANYON (6376). -------------- seems to me this last paragraph settles the issue *BY Itself*. here we have Warner-Reprise Records clearly identifying Reprise #RS-6293 _as_ SONG TO A SEAGULL _in_ 1970! i rest my case, thank-you. - ------- simon - ------- 1998 Update ~ Additions: 7. HITS & MISSES CD Inserts lists all Joni's Albums w/cover photos. 1st album (Reprise #6293) listed *as* Song To A Seagull. 8. The JONI MITCHELL SONGBOOK: Complete volume 1 (1966-1970) (c) 1974 Siquomb Publishing Corp. contains all songs from Joni's 1st -3- albums, listed as follows: SONG TO A SEAGULL CLOUDS LADIES OF THE CANYON 9. "JONI MITCHELL" by Leonore Fleischer (c) 1976 All references to Joni's 1st album are _as_ SONG TO A SEAGULL. (pg. #12,21,57,65) 10. Magazine Article, ZIGZAG 69 ~ feb. 1977: Joni Mitchell says, "The first album _was called_ SONG TO A SEAGUL and i used that as a continuity. i found that SONG TO A SEAGUL was a summary of all the songs i'd ever written." 11. ROLLING STONE Magazine, March 4, 1971: "New York gave her the inspiration to write the songs on her first album SONG TO A SEAGULL, produced by David Crosby. The cover had fine pen-and-ink drawings and Joni's picture was on the back, from a fisheye lens on a New York backstreet." 12. MELODY MAKER, Sept. 28, 1968: "JONI, The Seagull From Saskatoon" by Karl Dallas "And the first song in the album, "I Had A King" is about the breakup of my marriage." "The album is one of the few I can think of - the others that spring to mind are "Sgt. Pepper" and the Mothers of Invention LPs - which successfully hangs together as a complete whole." The title, written so subtly by the wings of flying seagulls on the cover that few people notice it; is SONG TO A SEAGULL. The first side is called "I Came To The City" and the second side is called "Out of the City and Down to the Seaside." Both are lines from songs on the second side. 1999 Update ~ Additions: 13. HIT PARADER Magazine, January 1970 "The Mitchell Mystique and Minnie Mouse" by Brigatta The other thing that mainly bothered me about SONG TO A SEAGULL, a kind of adolescent sentimentality and slick-magazine banality in some of the ideas -- is almost indescernible now -- In fact I am amazed at the amount of emotional growth evidenced by Joni Mitchell's songs in the relatively short period of one year. Joni still isn't exactly the meat and potatoes of pop, but a surprising amount of the content of "Clouds" stick to your ribs. 14. MANSION ON THE HILL, by Fred Goodman (p) April 1998 Settling into Hollywood's Sunset Studios to record SONG TO A SEAGULL while Buffalo Springfield was there working on what would prove to be their final album, Mitchell eagerly introduced Roberts and Crosby to Neil Young. 15. CRAWDADDY MAGAZINE, August 1968 "The Way We Are Today: Earth Opera and Joni Mitchell" by Paul Williams Joni Mitchell's album (which has a name "Song To A Seagull") is divided into two parts -- I Came To The City & Out Of The City and Down to The Seaside -- and ten parts -- her songs. this issue also featured a subscription ad with a free record offer. here's the text. Joni Mitchell's * free ... SONG TO A SEAGULL album * this offer is brought to you by Warner Bros. Records (who appreciate the publicity) and CRAWDADDY Magazine (who needs the bread). for now ~ take care, - -------- simon TODAY: January 15, 2004 i'd like to point out that i've come across a number of other references to SONG TO A SEAGULL as the 1st LP Title since 1999, in articles from the late 1960s and early 1970s. for a number of reasons, i just stopped taking note of them. Case Closed! andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simon NOTE: August 27, 2007 - i imagine some confusion will remain. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: A mouth like yours I've always thought the "woman who had a mouth like yours" was some kind of Psychic/fortune teller (in my head she looks like a typical "gypsy" like all fortune tellers do in movies). I think this because how else would she know his "likes" or "devils and deeds"..Possibly she is thesame gyspy Joan went to see on Bleeker street who lit a candle and wasted her money.. hmm.. Some part of me used to think it was his mother.explaining the mouth like his .. but that's kind of far fetched.. - --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:01:46 -0400 From: Jordy Subject: 'Death Grip' from The New Republic Death Grip: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707 Visit TNR Online: http://www.tnr.com/ Click here for four free issues of The New Republic: http://www.tnr.com/pt/emailthis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:08:32 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Joni Remixed Hello list. I've had a request for the Joni Mitchell Remixed CD that some of you helped me put together so, I've uploaded it again. Here is the link for part 1 Joni Mitchell Remixed Part 1.zip Mark in Sydney NP 88 - Level 42 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:27:15 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni Remixed Did it not come out as a link? Here it is again http:// send.arunalabs.com/download.html?h=TW1VelppNHdZVEpr Mark. On 28/08/2007, at 7:21 AM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Where's the link, Mark? :) > > hugs, > Jimmy > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/ > memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:25:31 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: 'Death Grip' from The New Republic (NJC) Please remember to mark posts that have nothing to do with Joni Mitchell, NJC in the subject line. On Aug 27, 2007, at 4:01 PM, Jordy wrote: > Death Grip: > http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707 > > > > Visit TNR Online: > http://www.tnr.com/ > > Click here for four free issues of The New Republic: > http://www.tnr.com/pt/emailthis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:47:48 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Nathan ? I'm sure I read somewhere that one of Joni's childhood neighbours was a Helen LaFraneer in Saskatoon, who's mother played an Edith Piaf song during Helen's birthday party and Joni was instantly struck by the music (I'm paraphrasing from the 'Music That Matters To Her CD form Starbucks) whether she just liked the name or whether Nathan is an actual person, I don't think makes any difference... It's a specific-non-specific name which conjures up a portrait of an grouchy immigrant trying to make a living. (My take of it anyway) Much Joni Jamie Zooby On 27/08/07, simon@icu.com wrote: > J Kendel Johnson writes > > > > Do you know if Le Hibou night manager Pierre-Paul Lafreniere > > may have been the inspiration for the name of the song's title > > character in "Nathan La Franeer"? > > > although Joni's first appearances at Le Hibou (June 1967) pre-date the > recording of her first album, i don't think it likely that > Pierre-Paul Lafreniere > was the inspiration. > > although i don't like to quote Joni without giving specific citations, > I DO remember two statements from seperate interviews. > > 1. there was an individual, a girl child i think, (named Betty?) > who was a childhood friend of Joni's. last name? LaFraneer. > > 2. Joni does mention being inspired by the name of a taxi driver in NYC. > as best i can recall, HIS name was Nathan. i think she conflated the two. > > > i'll get back to you and the JMDL whenever i have specific details. > > I DO remember that both interviews are spoken recordings. > > > > > andmoreagain, > - - - - - - - - - > simon > > http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Kerry Subject: Auction's end: Joni signed print. VOICES show Um, isn't the signature printed on the poster? How could he sell it as "signed" by her??? It sure looks exactly like the signature on mine. Hmmm. Kerry http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230162138282 - --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:36:41 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Auction's end: Joni signed print. VOICES show Could be... Joni's big, freeflowing signature appears printed on a few things... ...but then, on the other hand, Maybe Joni actually signed your poster as well as theirs... Cheers, Pat - ---------------- > Um, isn't the signature printed on the poster? How could he sell it as > "signed" by her??? It sure looks exactly like the signature on mine. > Hmmm. > > Kerry > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230162138282 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:03:51 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: White House will write Petraueus report, njc I'm late to the party. Did everyone already discuss this? The White House is going to write the long-anticipated Petraeus Report!? They've even tried to keep the General's testimony to Congress in private session, and requested that Condi have all of the face time in front of the news cameras. Lastly, the Administration wanted the testimony to take place on Sept 11, which would a.) reinforce the old, worn-out cliche that keeping the peace in Iraq has anything to do with the al-Queda attacks over here and b) attempt to bury the news under retrospectives about the 911 attacks. I heard about this from Le Show, a syndicated radio show from Judith Owen's husband... what's his name? Then I did some research of my own. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:20 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Bon anniversaire, Bo Peep! Happy birthday, Bo Peep! May you always keep learning, and be peaceful, with your good dogs and some trees. Thank you for the loving and kind spirit you bring to this list. I will always come when you whistle. I will bring you incense Owls by night By candlelight By jewel-light If only you will stay... Lots of love, Patti P. NP: a beautiful end-of-summer symphony of crickets and katydids outside my window _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Cafi  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:12:37 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Let's hear it for Miss South Carolina! -- njc Hey, SoB, good catch! It was just on Leno! Everything you need to know, you learn on the JMDL first. C'est vrai. Our best source for news, impossibly gentle hands down. Don't you just love it when the late night comedians pick up on something you already *knew* was outrageous? I get that feeling a lot when Jon Stewart talks about another BushCo betise (French for "a stupidity"; actually much too kind a word). Of course, that happens daily. Musik Meister Muller, how do you survive in that state? Surely you must stand out like a ruby! Keep SHINEing. By jewel-light, Patti P. LOL Bobbi! Is that one of Muller's relatives? I had to play it 4 times, and I still have no clue what she said. Jimmy In a message dated 8/26/2007 2:08:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smurfadelica@yahoo.com writes: >At the rate we're going, she'll probably be the next >president! > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww > >--SoB > _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #337 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------