From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #328 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, August 19 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 328 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: Shine lyrics, my take ["Marion Leffler" ] SV: Shine lyrics, njc ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: Shine lyrics, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Shine [Gary Z ] Re: Okay!!!! Now it really ism Saturday!! [Peep Richman ] njc, TV alert: The U.S. vs John Lennon ["Patti Parlette" ] Re:SJC Hotel California (long) ["Kate Bennett" ] Ignored for almost 14 years? ["Les Irvin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:24:33 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Shine lyrics, my take I've been thinking that maybe she did IF for her grandchildren? Of course that does not mean she is not also referring to experiences of her own. Maybe she has found the poem useful for herself and wants to pass it on. (I imagine Kipling wrote the poem thinking of a young person). Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr David Sapp Skickat: den 17 augusti 2007 18:39 Till: joni list Dmne: Re: Shine lyrics, my take Yes I think the lyrics on Shine are more direct than some of Joni's other work... but I believe that was her intention. I remember on the Amanda Ghost interview Joni made a passing comment that Shine was "Joni for dummies" and then she chuckled... going on to say that she was dealing with major themes supported by major chords. My initial impression after reading the lyrics was that these were probably going to be perfectly crafted "pop" songs and reflective of Joni's lifelong songwriting education. These lyrics from If really jumped out at me (yes I know it's an adaptation): If you can bear to hear The truth you've spoken Twisted and misconstrued By some smug fool Or watch your life''s work Torn apart and broken down And still stoop to build again With worn out tools. I felt as if Joni could be describing her own career and what some have done to her life work in the name of criticism rather than appreciating the tremendous gift she has given the world. And reading the last two lines I imagined that was how Joni must have felt as she stooped to record again... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:11:07 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Shine lyrics, njc Hm, Laura, Im not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. Do you propose that women should have the right to induce abortions in their homes without the aid of either doctor or midwife? What if they start haemorrhaging and cannot get to a hospital in time? (This happened to the mother of a friend of mine in the 50s, she died). Same with having your baby at home  many things can go wrong that nobody could foresee. I have had two children and if they hadnt been born at a hospital, both of them would probably have died. (One had the umbilical cord around his neck and was choking, the other one was premature). I think I understand you in part  you dont approve of doctors having the power to decide, and I can see your point but I still think there is no real alternative to abortions induced under the medical care of a hospital, with the proper aftercare of course. There is no point in leaving the hospital too soon and facing the same risks of haemorrhage as if the abortion had been done at home. About the God-given right  well, inducing abortion at home is not always successful  far from it  many women have tried and not been able to end the pregnancy. Is it then Gods will that some women succeed and others not? I know your answer will be affirmative but I am not convinced that God is the judge and the jury here. Again, our views are different but it is always interesting to learn what other people think and why. I respect your views and try to understand them. Love and peace, Marion _____ Fren: LCStanley7@aol.com [mailto:LCStanley7@aol.com] Skickat: den 17 augusti 2007 23:27 Till: marionleffler@telia.com; joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: Shine lyrics, njc In a message dated 8/17/07 9:32:40 AM, marionleffler@telia.com writes: Given those circumstances, Id prefer abortion to be legal and done in hospitals, and up to women themselves to decide on. Hi Marion, Isn't it nice to be at peace together with differing opinions. I love that. As for abortion and hospitals, women die there too or after leaving without the necessary aftercare, but yes it is safer than some methods done outside of hospitals. Safe methods of abortion at home tends to be overlooked although it has been done probably as long as women got pregnant. My grandmother had inducing a spontaneous abortions down to a science of her own and didn't need a doctor nor a hospital. She did what pregnant women are prenatally counciled not to do that puts them at risk for spontaneous abortion. Maintaining a pregnancy is a more delicate process than it is sometimes made out to be. Spontaneous abortions at home whether induced intentionally or for unknown reasons are more common than the general public might think. I've had 2 myself. Only one caused hemorrhaging that landed me in the hospital. But, it might not have been any safer if I had gone to the hospital in the first place. I might have had the abortion at the hospital and gone home and started to hemorrhage hours afterwards. As for the legality of abortion, it is a non-issue in my opinion. I see it as a political lever for either the right or the left. I don't consider it when I vote. Obviously, just because Bush claims to be pro-life doesn't mean he respects human life. He got votes of people who favor pro-life candidates and look at how many human deaths have resulted. As for pro-choice, that too in my opinion doesn't really mean people are for women to have choices. Only one choice is promoted, abortion, rather than promotion of all choices of possibilities for dealing with being pregnant. Nobody can really take away the God given choice women have to abort or not abort their babies. Even when abortion was illegal, people who were against it rarely called the police to come and arrest a woman who had an abortion. The police were called on the doctors instead. So, it isn't a woman's issue at all in my opinion but a doctor's issue. Legalization of abortion rather than giving women the right to abort, gave doctors the right to abort. The outcome has been that more women started believing to abort their babies they need to go to a doctor... similar to the way women tend to think they need doctors to deliver their babies rather than to have them at home. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:37:56 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: Shine lyrics, njc In a message dated 8/18/07 6:12:45 AM, marionleffler@telia.com writes: > > Hm, Laura, Ibm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. > Hi Marion. > Do you propose that women should have the right to induce abortions in > their homes without the aid of either doctor or midwife? > > > I was saying they have the choice now and always will regardless of the law. It goes on more than the statistics show. A doctor or a midwife is a good idea, but the choice to use either or neither belongs to the woman. > What if they start haemorrhaging and cannot get to a hospital in time? > (This happened to the mother of a friend of mine in the 50bs, she died). > Yes, that is a risk. They didn't have 911 in the 50's, but they had the operator; I hope your friend's mother called. It is hard to make that call though because that means people will know. It is a very private thing to end a pregnancy. I hemorrhaged at home after losing a pregnancy, soaked towel after towel. I talked with my primary care doctor who said he thought it would quit and I didn't need to go to the hospital. It wasn't until I called a friend of mine who had all her kids at home that I was convinced to go to the emergency room despite what my primary care doctor thought. I didn't want to go, but she convinced me to go. I almost passed out walking in to the hospital and had to do so with a towel between my legs because I was losing so much blood so fast. I had to have an emergency D&C without anesthesia. It was very painful. I'm sure I would have died too from the hemorrhaging if I hadn't gotten to the hospital. > Same with having your baby at home b many things can go wrong that nobody > could foresee. > Yes, this is the argument against using midwives. > I have had two children and if they hadnbt been born at a hospital, both > of them would probably have died. > I've had 3 successful births, two by emergency c-section and one by scheduled c-section... at the hospital of course. > I think I understand you in part b you donbt approve of doctors having the > power to decide, and I can see your point but I still think there is no real > alternative to abortions induced under the medical care of a hospital, with > the proper aftercare of course. There is no point in leaving the hospital too > soon and facing the same risks of haemorrhage as if the abortion had been > done at home. > Doctors don't have the power to decide anything for their patients without the patients' consent under usual circumstances. They offer a service. Abortion legalization gives doctors the right to do the abortion procedure. It doesn't give women the choice to have an abortion - something women will always have based on their biology and something women have always been able to choose regardless of the law or the views of other people. Successful, safe abortions done by women throughout the ages in the privacy of their own homes isn't something well publicized. By it's private nature, it has been kept quiet. Women could chose to make it public knowledge even now, but with it being frowned upon by many in society, it is kept in the closet. Women do share privately with other women about how to successful induce and safely have home spontaneous abortions using herbs, hot baths, etc. > About the God-given right b well, inducing abortion at home is not always > successful b far from it b many women have tried and not been able to end > the pregnancy. > I said a God-give choice, not right. I would wager that many more have been successful. > Is it then Godbs will that some women succeed and others not? I know > your answer will be affirmative but I am not convinced that God is the judge and > the jury here. > Have to wonder if the unsuccessful ones had sought out information from other women who had successfully done it? My guess is they didn't. I don't know God's will. > > Again, our views are different but it is always interesting to learn what > other people think and why. I respect your views and try to understand them. > Yes, and I respect yours and enjoy hearing them. Our society has gotten locked into believing health care is dependent on hospitals and standard medical procedures. I don't discount all standard medicine of course... I couldn't and teach medical school. However, in my opinion there is something good about the rise of popularity in alternative medicine and more and more doctors studying it, drawing from Eastern medicine, and increasely practicing it. I used to be very closed minded toward things outside of the normal way medicine is practice until I became friends with somebody who does homeopathic medicine. In researching it myself, I found that we have nitroglycerin to treat angina because of homeopathy. In my experience, knowledge grows better in an open-minded environment. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:16:22 -0400 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: Shine And it's already listed as a pre-order on cduniverse.com as well. Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit Bob Muller wrote: > > > I'm planning on swinging by Earshot on the 25th and getting Joni & Herbie. > > Like Richard said, it's available wherever you typically shop. I'm sure it will be on itunes too, and if Macca's CD was on emusic I'm certain that Joni's will be too. > > Bob > > NP: Dave Blackburn, Robin Adler & The Joni Band, "Woodstock" > > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:08:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: Okay!!!! Now it really ism Saturday!! Hello everyone! I know what day it is...aha! Christian, thank you for your lovely words about my last posting. Today I want to share a quote I discovered. I know Joni would probably enjoy it. "The most beautiful discovery true friends make are that they can grow separately without growing apart." -Anonymous Beautiful and so true, don't you think? I find that I think of Joni so often during the day. I wonder what she may be doing....I know there's a three hour time difference so I think about that too....I think about certain lyrics that seem to just pop, without specific motivation, into my head...I wonder if Joni is well and if her life is gentle...I wonder what she's reading and what music she is listening to...and I marvel at her multi-talents. Most of all, I feel so completely grateful that she is in my life. And, through our common love of Joni, I have found so many kindred spirits and wonderful people on our digest. Peace and real love to everyone, Bo - --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Bob! a cover question is this person's cover of "Carey" among your collection? http://www.saragazarek.com/ Nice! I was out back on the deck dipping/immersing myself nicely in jazz and I *thought* I was listening to a set of Max Roach related stuff, on our super duper community radio station WMNF. Not sure if that's the case or not - but this played, and it was pretty kick-ass. I called the station ( the lines were open) and got her name. :) Em < Subject: njc, TV alert: The U.S. vs John Lennon Bon soir! "The U.S. vs John Lennon" is on VHS1 right now (9 p.m. EST). Catch it if you can, if you are interested. I saw it once before and loved it. I am looking for some sweet inspiration by watching it again. Hair peace, bed peace, Patti P. P.S. Bon weekend! NPOMTV: Power to the People. Yeah! _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:29:00 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: njc, TV alert: The U.S. vs John Lennon In a message dated 8/18/2007 9:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, loveuconn@hotmail.com writes: "The U.S. vs John Lennon" is on VHS1 right now (9 p.m. EST). Catch it if you can, if you are interested. - -------------------------------- I'm going to have my brother tape the 1 AM showing of it that is broadcasting..... - -Mon ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:12:45 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay!!!! Now it really ism Saturday!! In a message dated 8/18/2007 1:19:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ubehpy2003@yahoo.com writes: "The most beautiful discovery true friends make are that they can grow separately without growing apart." - -Anonymous Beautiful and so true, don't you think? - ------------------------------------------------------ That is a lovely quote and very true. If all people could understand that....we'd be making progress. - -Mon ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:20:33 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, TV alert: The U.S. vs John Lennon > I'm going to have my brother tape the 1 AM showing of it that is >broadcasting..... >-Mon > Brava! Be prepared to be moved. Kevin, you too! I never give you my pillow I only send you my invitation And in the middle of the celebrations I break down Boy, you gotta carry that weight Carry that weight a long time Boy, you gotta carry that weight Carry that weight a long time "John Lennon and the Politics of Deportation, From Nixon to Bush http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060912_john_lennon_politics_deportation/ The documentary The U.S. vs. John Lennon, which opened Sept. 15, recounts President Richard Nixons campaign to deport the Beatle because of his antiwar activism. In this report, Jon Wiener, a Lennon historian who consulted on the film, writes that President Bush has gone much further than Nixon in using immigration law to get rid of noncitizens whom the White House doesnt like." This film brought me back to my freshman year in college, 1972. "For the Roses" always on the turntable, working for George McGovern (as did Joni and JT), the hope and the hopelessness I've witnessed all these years... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...n'est-ce pas, Christian? But hope springs eternal. I can't wait to SHINE with Joni again. And I'm so glad that Kevin and Monika are here with us. All the young dudes Carry the news Boogaloo dudes Carry the news Peace, Patti P., renewed again _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Cafi  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:52:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take Exactly- having a vehicle for anger allows us to NOT be angry all the time or even much of the time & remember what she said- she sings her pain kate Mark in Sydney>I totally relate to everything Joni has said, either in song or not. I'm sure Joni is not angry every day either but this is her vehicles for discussing the way she feels about things that are important to her.< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:32:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re:SJC Hotel California (long) Mark "whenever I play that game of, "if you could go back and live in any time period through history and in any place in the world, where/when would it be?" my choice is always Woodstock or Laurel Canyon in the early '70s." thank you for saying this, lately I've been reminiscing on some amazing experiences that I've had in my life one is that I got to experience a small part of the Woodstock era during the end of the 60s (& in her later years before she passed, my mom told me about some of her family who lived in in Woodstock decades earlier & even then it was quite bohemian) & although it wasn't laurel canyon, I got to be part of a wonderful 'back to the garden' lifestyle with music at the core- it wasn't laurel canyon but not that far away from there & for me, perhaps, a better choice at the time kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:27:10 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Ignored for almost 14 years? Joniphiles - A new article has just been added to the Library from an Australian newspaper published in April of 1983. Miguel Arrondo, who typed the article, pointed out an interesting fact contained therein: Joni admits to having a child and giving her up for adoption, even revealing the name given to her at birth. This is 1983, mind you. Am I the only one who missed this back then? Why was this such a surprise in December of 1996 when "the news" hit and Joni stated "the good news is that I'm clean now, and I have no skeletons." It's fascinating that the same news which created such a media frenzy in 1996 was completely ignored in 1983. Even Joni, 13 years later, implied it was a just-revealed fact. Read the article here: http://jonimitchell.com/Library/view.cfm?id=1629 Is my memory slipping or is this whole thing quite strange? Hmmmm.. Les (not London) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #328 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------