From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #327 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, August 18 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 327 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Shine lyrics, my take [Bob Muller ] Re: Shine lyrics, my take [David Sapp ] Re: Shine Lyrics..My take NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #326 [Peep Richman ] Shine ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: dave matthews and tim reynolds NJC [Michael Paz ] RE: Shine ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Shine [Bob Muller ] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination ["AJ" ] Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! ["Christian MACKOWSKI"] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] LONG Both sides, please ! ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Shine lyrics, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, my take That's a great observation, David - and I would say you're spot on. I really think that there's a lot more going on here lyrically than people can see. Of course, when we get the musical foundation for these new words maybe things will fall into place. And how about "Night Of The Iguana"? That's kind of an oddity...coming straight from the Tennessee Williams text - I haven't read it but I've seen the film two or three times. Also odd, but starring Sue Lyon so I love it by default. Joni must be a Williams fan as she's referenced his work previously. Bob NP: REM, "Find The River" - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, my take ///Joni must be a Williams fan as she's referenced his work previously./// Yes she must be... "she dodges the light like Blanche Dubois"... but I'm really optimistic about the new release and really like the sounds I am hearing on the snippets that are going around... If has really caught my fancy... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:26:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take NJC OMG. Hysterical. Bombastic. As in bomb. What were these people thinking? >Hey, let's count our blessings here...instead of covering Kipling's poem "If", she could have covered Bread's song "If", and it might be something like this....worst.video.ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J94-_w9ARX0 Bob< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:24:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #326 Whoops!!! I posted this morning as Sunny Saturday...it's Sunny Friday!!!!!!!!!! Just a little confused with the days of the week.... Love to you... Bo - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:55:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Shine Bo wrote "about the unexpected gift of "Shine". I'm so thankful" That is how I feel, thankful & rather amazed that she has written & recorded new material. I briefly glanced at the lyrics. The writing that most grabbed me was the beautiful piece written about the instrumental song. I will wait to really hear the lyrics when they are part of the music. Personally, I don't understand the desire to rewrite parts of someone else's poem. My preference would be to use it for inspiration & make it unrecognizable (creative plagiarism) or just put music to it straight. But that is just me. Also, I prefer 'topical' songs to be delivered within a story (like my favorite anti war song 'Rich Man's War' by Steve Earl who btw references, to my ear, an older antiwar song in his bridge) for a greater emotional impact. But I hear Kevin who is saying she is speaking to him & his generation & I relate to that because my son feels much the same. Actually I feel much the same about what is happening to our world & our culture yet the flower power that still is alive & well within me marvels at so much natural beauty that surrounds us (like Joni's intro). So many worry about terrorist attacks yet it was the winds & tides of mother nature who did the most damage to our country within the last few years (okay maybe that is not true considering the multi pronged damage created by this administration over the past 7 years but that is another subject entirely). Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:57:10 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: dave matthews and tim reynolds NJC you are so right the center one I zoned HEHHEE Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band cell-504-382-0343 http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 17, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Gerald A. Notaro wrote: Actually Michael it is three front speakers. Jerry Michael Paz wrote: > 2 front speakers 2 rear speakers and a subwoofer processed in digital > glory. It's slamming baby. Got my whole system for about $250 books > from Panasonic. > > Paz > > Michael Paz > michael@thepazgroup.com > > > > > > On Aug 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Mags wrote: > > hi Mikey, > > what the heck is a 5.1 system? i dont even own a stereo! i use my > computer . :-/ > > and yes, M. I know that you've met Dave and Im more than a little > green about that....i live vicariously through your stories :--) > > > dave's music, such drive, such passion . that's what gets to me, > and i hear he's an all round nice guy, no ego in the band whatsoever. > shares the stage, it's not all about him. that sort of thing. > > Mags. > > Michael Paz wrote: > I picked this show up day before yesterday and finished watching > it last night. What a great show and the sound is wonderful. I have a > 5.1 system (finally after all these years) and it really sounds > terrific. I just love Dave and Tim. > > Best > > > Paz > > Michael Paz > michael@thepazgroup.com > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Mags wrote: > > Victor wrote: > > > Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Music Hall DVD at > Target for $11.98 > > > > > Killer audio...Dave sounds great on this. Includes a song by > Daniel > Lanois "The Maker" which I kind of liked. Looking forward even > more > to seeing them live in September, which is looking to be a great > > > now me: > > > Hi there, Victor, > > > this grabbed my attention straight away because I'm a huge fan > (read: am in love with ;-) lol! (understatement) Dave , and Dave > with Tim. (acoustic album at Luther College). An amazing energy . I > love their passion. yum lol! I tried to convince Mikey to introduce > me to Dave, but he wouldnt go for it ;-) > > > I just saw the CD on itunes for $16.99, so you've got yourself a > great deal. > > > Mags > > > np: some new Beth Gibbons (tx to meic in barc ) ... Mysteries > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go > to Yahoo! Answers. > > > --------------------------------- > All new Yahoo! Mail - > --------------------------------- > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > All new Yahoo! Mail > --------------------------------- > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:05:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Shine so where are we supposed to get the album? Do I have to actually GO to a Starbucks? or order online? :) I'm looking forward to it and will go into it as devoid of cynicism as possible. eMusic.com offered the lastest McCartney album. Wondering if there's any chance "Shine" will appear there as well. happy Friday folks, Em " We need an El Camino" "Some things I know, and some things I don't." ... John From Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:50:08 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Shine You can get it from the usual places. I "pre-ordered" one from Amazon. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Em Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:05 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Shine so where are we supposed to get the album? Do I have to actually GO to a Starbucks? or order online? :) I'm looking forward to it and will go into it as devoid of cynicism as possible. eMusic.com offered the lastest McCartney album. Wondering if there's any chance "Shine" will appear there as well. happy Friday folks, Em " We need an El Camino" "Some things I know, and some things I don't." ... John From Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:27:15 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc In a message dated 8/17/07 9:32:40 AM, marionleffler@telia.com writes: > Given those circumstances, Ibd prefer abortion to be legal and done in > hospitals, and up to women themselves to decide on. > Hi Marion, Isn't it nice to be at peace together with differing opinions. I love that. As for abortion and hospitals, women die there too or after leaving without the necessary aftercare, but yes it is safer than some methods done outside of hospitals. Safe methods of abortion at home tends to be overlooked although it has been done probably as long as women got pregnant. My grandmother had inducing a spontaneous abortions down to a science of her own and didn't need a doctor nor a hospital. She did what pregnant women are prenatally counciled not to do that puts them at risk for spontaneous abortion. Maintaining a pregnancy is a more delicate process than it is sometimes made out to be. Spontaneous abortions at home whether induced intentionally or for unknown reasons are more common than the general public might think. I've had 2 myself. Only one caused hemorrhaging that landed me in the hospital. But, it might not have been any safer if I had gone to the hospital in the first place. I might have had the abortion at the hospital and gone home and started to hemorrhage hours afterwards. As for the legality of abortion, it is a non-issue in my opinion. I see it as a political lever for either the right or the left. I don't consider it when I vote. Obviously, just because Bush claims to be pro-life doesn't mean he respects human life. He got votes of people who favor pro-life candidates and look at how many human deaths have resulted. As for pro-choice, that too in my opinion doesn't really mean people are for women to have choices. Only one choice is promoted, abortion, rather than promotion of all choices of possibilities for dealing with being pregnant. Nobody can really take away the God given choice women have to abort or not abort their babies. Even when abortion was illegal, people who were against it rarely called the police to come and arrest a woman who had an abortion. The police were called on the doctors instead. So, it isn't a woman's issue at all in my opinion but a doctor's issue. Legalization of abortion rather than giving women the right to abort, gave doctors the right to abort. The outcome has been that more women started believing to abort their babies they need to go to a doctor... similar to the way women tend to think they need doctors to deliver their babies rather than to have them at home. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:57:33 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc In a message dated 8/17/07 9:46:53 AM, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > Sorry, Laura. I have to call you on the tolerance of the Catholic Church, > as I have before. You like to portray the Catholic Church as touchy feel-y in > these matters, but there condemnation is direct and clear. This is direct > from Catholic.net with citations: > > > Contraception > B B B Contraception is actively aimed at preventing conception. The Church > teaches that bevery action that intends to impede procreation must be repudiated > . . . whether it is done in anticipation of marital intercourse, or during > it, or while it is having its natural consequences.b16 The Catechism of the > Catholic Church declares all forms of contraception to be bintrinsically evil.b > > > Hi Jerry, B B B B Condemnation of souls is a far cry from saying what they do is intrinsically evil or presents grave danger to their souls as mortal sin.B B B B B "Touchy feel-y"... I'm smiling at your description.B B Touchy feel-y me a little more toward the center of my back please. B B B B Replace the words "the Catholic Church" above in your paragraph to me with the word "Gays" and you have words similar to what Christian fundamentalists say to liberals.B Watch out for the conservative Catholic net; it will catch you every time.B B B B Love, LauraB ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shine I'm planning on swinging by Earshot on the 25th and getting Joni & Herbie. Like Richard said, it's available wherever you typically shop. I'm sure it will be on itunes too, and if Macca's CD was on emusic I'm certain that Joni's will be too. Bob NP: Dave Blackburn, Robin Adler & The Joni Band, "Woodstock" - --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:19:12 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc Laura, Did you read it all? This is a direct quote from what I sent you: Engaging in contracepted intercourse is regarded as seriously wrong—as constituting objectively grave matter, and thus is grounds for mortal sin. That is as direct as you can get. Jerry > In a message dated 8/17/07 9:46:53 AM, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > Hi Jerry, > > B B B B Condemnation of souls is a far cry from saying what they do is > intrinsically evil or presents grave danger to their souls as mortal sin. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:37:17 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc In a message dated 8/17/07 5:19:17 PM, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > Did you read it all? This is a direct quote from what I sent you: > > Engaging in contracepted intercourse is > regarded as seriously wrong—as constituting objectively grave > matter, and thus is grounds for mortal sin. > > That is as direct as you can get. > Hi Jerry, Yes, I read it all which is why I said: "Condemnation of souls is a far cry from saying what they do is intrinsically evil or presents grave danger to their souls as mortal sin." By saying this, I was refering the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church (paragraph 1861 on mortal sin) which states, "However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgement of persons to the justice and mercy of God." I think sometimes people interpret the terms "mortal sin" to mean condemnation of the soul by the church. However, the church usage of the terms "mortal sin" is to indicate the soul is in grave danger not that the Church condemns the soul. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:42:56 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > For what it's worth, Joni did approach and receive permission from Yeats' > estate to rework Slouching towards Bethlehem. I think that demonstrates > commendable artistic integrity. > > Jerry I wouldn't argue that she didn't do it with integrity, and that it didn't have great meaning for her. And that she no doubt felt a profound artistic urge to do it. I just think it was a mistake. Does that make sense? It doesn't honor Yeats or Mitchell. - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:57:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: here's the page for Joni Mitchell a la CBC archives http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-68-2462/arts_entertainment/joni_mitchell/ that will take you directly to the Joni pages. All sides now, so they say ;-) Mags - --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: cbc archives Joni Mitchell http://archives.cbc.ca/IDT-1-68/arts_entertainment/ follow the link to some more Joni from the CBC archives. Mags - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:56:23 +0200 From: "Christian MACKOWSKI" Subject: Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! HI Bo, Please let me tell you that what you've written is a lake of Beauty and Wisdom.......Know that I will be waitin' with you ,till the 46th day to discover that "Album" Or should I say 45th....cause I'm in France Best Christian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peep Richman" To: Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:59 PM Subject: Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! > Hello to all our family members! > My computer is right next to my bedroom window that gives me the pleasure > of watching my little garden grow. I have a bird bath and to have the > chance to see different and new birds cool off with a bath and a drink of > clean water makes me so happy. > It's a HUMID and hot one today but here I am safely tucked away in my > little "canyon" (hardly...that's really my fantasy) and I have the > magnificent opportunity to write to people who are sensitive, oh so > bright, gifted in many ways, and, of course, we all share our love of > Joni. > I won't read the lyrics or see the cover until the actual day of the > release. My anticipation is HUGE and I'm so 'self-disciplined' I really > can't believe it...maybe it's the result from the process of growing > older...operative word...'growing'! > There always has been a controversial foundation to many of Joni's > lyrics. Personally, I doubt if she gives this a thought or cares. > The power of the unconscious, and Joni's natural gift of blending her > subconscious with her perceptions of her world and the many people who are > so blessed from the experience of knowing Joni, can't be, in my thinking, > over-stated. > Joni is magnificently honest...even raw with her myriad of thoughts and > emotions..."Shine", I can't imagine, will lack these qualities we love so > dearly about our Joni. > I've thought about this recently and, actually for many years, come to > think of it, but I've never analyzed Joni's lyrics....I react to > them...they so often evoke a super-strong personal reaction within me...I > wonder about what she writes and how she delivers her lyrics with the > musical instrument of her voice. > Please don't misunderstand my thinking and sharing this with you. I love > to read all of your postings and the marvelous interactions that may > follow, but today I just felt like writing about how I feel about the > release of "Shine". > I grew up in the 1960's and 1970's...gee, hope I'm still > growing...hitchhiked to Woodstock for my honeymoon with Ken...and the last > time I saw Richard was in 2002, after a 20 year loving (I thought) sharing > of our lives together...immediately after we were financially forced to > sell our beloved house that had been my dream for 17 previous years, he > moved 'with' me to an apartment and late that night he just said he > couldn't live there and walked out. There wasn't a > discussion...warning...nothing. I just told him I wished him the very > best of life...that I wish that this will include excellent health, and a > new love. That was it. We talked briefly two days later and that's that. > The point is, I have the values I held dearly to my heart that were such > a strong part of those previous decades, and after Richard left, and there > were so many overwhelming changes in my life, I remember arranging Joni's > albums, from her first to the last, all covering my floor, and listening > to every single word, note and thoughts she shared in each of her > priceless works. To say the very least, it was Joni...and maybe > exclusively Joni... who helped me through those vigorously emotionally > demanding days and months and years. > I feel I have no vocabulary to express to you how I feel about the > unexpected gift of "Shine". I'm so thankful. > I'm feel much like I felt in the 60's and 70's, consumed and > unimaginably saddened by the unmentionable situations in our country...in > so many countries on this planet. I remember going to Earth Day, and now > it's so difficult for me to process what has happened to our planet. > Disjointed thoughts...I know...but history tells us that our country, our > planet, has always, for whatever year it might have been, experienced > unspeakable horrors. And we've all heard that history repeats > itself...that isn't what's primary in my mind. What exactly are we going > to do about any of the many situations and unspeakable horror that is > happening...right this very second? > Maybe Joni is giving us a shove in a new direction with "Shine". That > remains to be seen, a mystery for the moment. > I'm praying...and my prayers include that Joni will really help me decide > precisely how and where I can be of the most help....I'm not THAT old (57 > end of this month)...I've remained in-shape...feel strong. I feel that > "Shine" will help to propel me to a new destiny....a very specific way to > be of some help wherever that may be. > Thank you for allowing me to ramble on. > Be well, be safe, my dear friends. > Bo > > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc You are playing with words. Not a very Catholic thing to do. Again, from Catholic.com on mortal sin: "mortal sinssins which kill the spiritual life of the soul and deprive a person of salvation, unless he repents." Maybe you are really a Protestant in disguise. What you claim is what John Calvin claimed before he was declared a heretic! Jerry, a well trained, but lapsed Catholic > By saying this, I was refering the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic > Church > (paragraph 1861 on mortal sin) which states, "However, although we can > judge > that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgement of > persons > to the justice and mercy of God." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:43:25 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: LONG Both sides, please ! Every time I've read a quote like this I've thought that the executive was saying something very different from what Joni "heard". To me he's saying, "You deserve better than what we can give you." I don't see how she can interpret "this is a work of genuis" as if he said something "ugly, screwed up, crooked... or selfish." I can see 'uncreative' in what he said b/c the company couldn't figure out how to promote it (that is, hold up their obligation). Jim "The record labels are criminally insane ... ugly, screwed up, crooked, uncreative, selfish," she told the Citizen. "After the last work that I did, the vice-president of the company (Reprise) came up to me and said, 'Joan, this is a work of genius, but we're just selling cars now. We've got cute cars, we've got fast cars, we've got ugly cars - and we just don't know what to do with your car.'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:20:25 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, njc Hi Jerry, Your "mortal sins -- sins which..." Catholic.com quote gives meaning to my "However, although... " Catechism quote and visa versa. Either quote of Catholic teaching can seem fundamentalist rather than Catholic when quoted without the other. Here's the whole paragraph from the Catechism which shows how beautifully your and my quotes balance each other: "Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgement of persons to the justice and mercy of God." (paragraph 1861) Thanks for playing with me. Balance is good. Love, Laura In a message dated 8/17/07 6:18:15 PM, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > You are playing with words. Not a very Catholic thing to do. Again, from > Catholic.com on mortal sin: > > "mortal sinsbsins which kill the spiritual life of the soul and deprive a > person of salvation, unless he repents." > > Maybe you are really a Protestant in disguise. What you claim is what John > Calvin claimed before he was declared a heretic! > > Jerry, a well trained, but lapsed Catholic > > > >B B B By saying this, I was refering the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic > > Church > > (paragraph 1861 on mortal sin) which states, "However, although we can > > judge > > that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgement of > > persons > > to the justice and mercy of God." > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #327 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------