From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #325 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, August 17 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 325 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shine Lyrics..My take ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take [Catherine McKay ] Re: Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Cheney prophecy, njc & Dick Don't Know Dick ["Patti Parlette" ] Issue #251 ["P Bear" ] Re: Shine Lyrics..My take [jeannie ] Re: Shine lyrics my take part 2, now Magic njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Shine Lyrics..My take [FMYFL@aol.com] Now THIS looks a little more interesting... ["P. Henry" ] Shine Lyrics..My take ===>hope or hopelessness? ["Patti Parlette" hope or hopelessness? now njc [Catherine Mc] njc, TV alert: Stephen Stills on Leno (re-run) ["Patti Parlette" Subject: Shine Lyrics..My take Kevin wrote: "Were people really expecting Joni to come out with an album an different than these amazing lyrics present? I feel the need to defend our lady simply because this is exactly what I expected the album to be...." Right on, brother! "Papa says leave the girl alone, mother She's looking like a moooooOOOOOOooooovie queen." And nobody ever said "Hey, paint a starry night again, man!" Play what you want, Joni. All righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht. I'm just diggin' it all. First we get the album cover, then we get the lyrics, then we get the music. Joni is coming home. She's coming home! It won't be long yeh, yeh, yeh It won't be long yeh, yeh, yeh It won't be long yeh, till SHINE belongs to you Joni, Since you left me, I'm so alone Now you're coming, you're coming on home I'll be good like I know I should You're coming home, you're coming home! She could sing "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" and I'd buy it. Or maybe nobody buys it and it sits up in a loft somewhere. Or we all buy it and argue over which bottle is better, the 83rd or the 24th. I could drink all 99 bottles of her and I would still be on my feet. Sorry, that was silly. Now I get serious. Kevin again: "These are the first lyrics I have read in forever that actually spit in the face of the maniacs who run this planet..I am proud to the point of tears..thank you Joni ..thank you for every album past but most importantly for this upcoming one..This "cromudgeon" thing I guess refers to her age well for my money a nearly 64 year old woman has the voice of a loud as hell 29 year old jersey boy..I will play this album..full blast as close to the white house as I can get.. Viva Joni!!" Roar like forest fire, brother! However, the sad fact is they just don't listen. They're just stumbling, deaf dumb and blind on a highway to hell. "Shine" won't be out in time for the September 15th demonstration in DC, so let's bring Neil's "Living With War" and blast that one all through the dirty town. The powers-that-be won't listen, but the choir will like it, and maybe more will join in. The more voices on it the better, ya know? Just chippin' in my shiny two pennies, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:51:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take - --- Bryan wrote: > Well, based on reading the lyrics alone, I would > venture to say that they are among Joni's least > poetic, least imaginative, and least engaging songs. > A couple of them are just pretty bad. That doesn't > necessarily mean they will be unlistenable when the > entire package is presented...too early to tell. But > so far, I'm not impressed. For me, it's not the > critical or negative perspective that bugs me, it's > the lack of literary beauty. But, honestly, it's > very close to what I was expecting. > > Now, part of me would honor Joni's courage for > producing a largely political work. But more of me > would ask why we need Joni to tell us that war sucks > or that mother nature is in trouble. We know that. > It is far more powerful (and enjoyable to the > listener), I believe, to slip political observations > and references into songs as asides or metaphors > than it is to write entire songs on political > subjects. We have so much evidence supporting that > already. > > As for BYT 2007, aren't there additional, new > lyrics? What's the point of recording the song again > unless there's an update...a verse on global warming > and SUVs maybe? > Bryan, you've summed up very nicely what I've been thinking. The lyrics certainly aren't the complex lyrical ones we remember from Joni's younger works. They are pretty darn stripped down and, when read out, come off as fairly Hallmark-greeting-cardish, if greeting cards weren't warm and fuzzy, that is. It's more like the anti-Hallmark feeling, I guess! Some of them come off sounding a big like doggerel or bad rap. I think, I hope, they will sound better when set to music. Part of me wishes she would use more metaphor and less in-your-face statements. Maybe Joni is getting all Picasso on us and going back to basic line drawings. But we live in the age of short attention spans and competing sound bites, interspersed with BS "messaging" that politicians think we will buy, so maybe what's needed is a short, sharp chop. We don't live in lyric poetical times. Still, what could come across as grouchy or curmudgeonly, ain't necessary so. It could be just world-weariness. I find at my age I'm a bit tired of the same old history repeating itself, years of watching things getting worse while hoping they will one day get better, wondering WTF the world will be like for my kids and their kids. There's a tiny part that still refuses to give up hope, of course, because otherwise, I'd just go to sleep and not wake up again. There's always the joy of hearing children laughing, or seeing a beautiful sunset or someone's lovely garden, or feeling a cool breeze on a scorching hot day that dispels the gloom, and it's hard to be pissed off all the time. It takes too much energy. I guess that's the little light. Song lyrics don't generally make good poetry, and good poems are hard to make into decent songs. As for BYT, I think the only thing she changed was the price, from a dollar and a half to an arm and a leg. Maybe she's hoping to get airplay with this as a single. After all, everyone and his dog has recorded this song and a few have had a hit with it. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Shine lyrics my take part 2 First off i love all of you..I love that I actually have people in my life to debate Joni lyrics with..I am a happy camper..Maybe I defended her apparent crabbyness because i have become quite crabby myself.. then when i woke up this morning and turned to my leo and watched him sleep..the world wasnt such a bad place then and of course it sometimes is the shinyest place in the universe..As far as my "majority" comment It seemed that every post I read had the same opinion so I dont think there is need for a poll..lol..i take that back..I do feel the need to clarify one thing..Since there is no tone of voice on here I need people to know that i am never ever mean spirited or mean to offend anyone..rosie and laura and a few others "know" me and I am sure can attest..but in case anyone felt bad i am sorry..(former catholic guilt NEVER leaves) lol.. much love from the only jersey boy who doesnt love bruce(ducks book thrown by Ro from south jersey) But I looove joni.. ;) xoxox Kev - --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:17:54 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take On U2's "Rattle & Hum", Bono introduces their cover of "Helter Skelter" by saying..."This is a song that Charles Manson stole from the Beatles...we're stealing it back." I get the feeling that Joni is subliminally making the same statement. (I wonder how many people will now think that Joni is doing a Counting Crows cover?) On the other hand, part of her re-recording it seems to imply that 37 years has passed since she released it originally and in many ways we're in a worse mess ecologically than we were back then - almost as if she's offering it up as proof of the "we're strangling the planet" lyrics she puts forth in the new songs. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Bodhisattva" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:29:26 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Cheney prophecy, njc & Dick Don't Know Dick Thank you, Laura. You beat me to it. I was looking for a version w/out the organization's info on it so that the people who don't like that organization would not miss the message. I received the message & video yesterday and it blew my mind. I went into ORBIT. Jon Stewart had it on last night. Did you see that? If not, I think it is repeated at 8 p.m. EST tonight. "Even Dick Don't Know Dick" Oh, wait. I know! Let me google it! You can watch it right away. http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/index.jhtml Oh, and watch the first video, where Sarkozy, the new French President, visits Bush. SORT OF A SPOILER ALERT: OMG. Watch as La Grande Dame Grandmere Barbara Bush enters the picture and listen up. IT IS HYSTERICAL! OMG....I *screamed* out laughing, the neighbors must have heard with the summertime windows wide open......and then the comment about Laura's undergarment.....too funeeeee! And the menu...... Laughing and crying, all in one post. Back to Cheney. Down down down the dark ladder to the dark side darkness darkness..... He has just-ice water in his veins. Running all through his circuits and his pacemaker battery like a fake heartbeat. If he had a heart, he'd cry. Is there now any question that this man is evil, and that he's got to go? They say as a flower child I appeared a little bit wild With all my crazy ideas But I knew what was happening I knew Bush was no genius What's so strange when you know That the real wizard's Cheney I knew his war was meant to be. Let's have another round of birdshot for the dark red devil who keeps us in this quagmire. Roaring like forest fire today, Patti P. ***** Stonewall Cheney knew all along, but he chose to eat the young alive to have tens of thousands of Hum-Vee carcasses in the drive. This man is a stone commission from hell and the epitome of just-ice. normajean - - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >Don't have to join this organization to watch this >video: > > http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2879&id=10983-2795904-cAlFkt&t=2 > _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:04:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take I too like Joni when her lyrics tend to understate, be minimalist and use figures of speech to state the obvious. That is why I thought that among her albums, HOSL offers a rich terrain for a reading and re-reading of her lyrics to discover newer nuances we have not seen/known before. In "Shine", the lyrics come across as biting because it does touch on timely topics we have heard and read about. Mostly the underside of the faith that is supposed to be spreading the good word. But the lyrics are not without its beauty. As was pointed out already, 'prisons' in the lyrics can mean enslavement to ideologies of any stripe one clings on desperately. But there have been real prisons too for novices training to be nuns and runaways. "The Magdalene Sisters" did not just show us this atrocity in Ireland but even inthe Philippines where I grew up -- so many documented cases of abuses and cruelties. I guess it dates back to the times of the friars and clergy people who lorded the archipelago for 300 years. If Joni's lyrics were no longer 'poetic' (broadly defined) as it was before, I respect that. Her maturation may have yielded a woman who'd rather state things her way in a more direct manner than before. I don't know if it is bitterness necessarily, or age. Or spitefulness for wars and global concerns. Maybe all of the above. Joseph in Auckland np: language of early birds - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:08:19 +1000 From: "P Bear" Subject: Issue #251 Mark , how much of that atmosphere was it due to the influence of Mary Jane , Mick Jagger and Dangerfield ? Is there anyone on the list who had any involvement ? I'm very interested in this > Jeannie , Church and State , those Pillars of Establishment run by the Rightist's . Yes it is written in stone isn't it ?! Politics _ Please don't get me started !! Gerald , very informative ! I love your in depth academic information . Thank You ! > Re:SJC Hotel California (long) [Mark-Leon Thorne mark-leon@iinet.net.au] > Re: Joni's lyrics on Shine [jeannie dreamin1957jeannie@yahoo.com] > Re: Joni's lyrics on Shine ["Gerald A. Notaro" notaro@stpt.usf.edu] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make shopping exciting. Find what you want @ www.eBay.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:20:13 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take I'm not even touching the lyrics yet. I'll wait on hearing the words alongside the music. To me, that's the best!! Jean ~~~ wrote: I too like Joni when her lyrics tend to understate, be minimalist and use figures of speech to state the obvious. That is why I thought that among her albums, HOSL offers a rich terrain for a reading and re-reading of her lyrics to discover newer nuances we have not seen/known before. In "Shine", the lyrics come across as biting because it does touch on timely topics we have heard and read about. Mostly the underside of the faith that is supposed to be spreading the good word. But the lyrics are not without its beauty. As was pointed out already, 'prisons' in the lyrics can mean enslavement to ideologies of any stripe one clings on desperately. But there have been real prisons too for novices training to be nuns and runaways. "The Magdalene Sisters" did not just show us this atrocity in Ireland but even inthe Philippines where I grew up -- so many documented cases of abuses and cruelties. I guess it dates back to the times of the friars and clergy people who lorded the archipelago for 300 years. If Joni's lyrics were no longer 'poetic' (broadly defined) as it was before, I respect that. Her maturation may have yielded a woman who'd rather state things her way in a more direct manner than before. I don't know if it is bitterness necessarily, or age. Or spitefulness for wars and global concerns. Maybe all of the above. Joseph in Auckland np: language of early birds - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:23:27 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics my take part 2, now Magic njc In a message dated 8/16/2007 1:12:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cactustree1978@yahoo.com writes: much love from the only jersey boy who doesnt love bruce(ducks book thrown by Ro from south jersey) But I looove joni.. ;) xoxox Kev Rosie in Central Jersey throwing another new album atcha ;`) xxoo New album: Magic Due October 2 It's official. Springsteen's first album with the E Street Band since 2002's The Rising drops in less than seven weeks, and it's called Magic. In case that title makes you, like us, think of Doug Henning... click the Mark Seliger photo at right for a first peek at Bruce's 2007 look. No rainbows or unicorns to be found. (And that guitar... that's magic.) According to manager Jon Landau, quoted in today's press release from Shore Fire Media, this one's a rocker: "Magic is a high energy rock CD. It's light on its feet, incredibly well played by Bruce and the members of the E Street Band, and, as always, has plenty to say. It's also immensely entertaining. Magic is the third collaboration between Bruce and Brendan O'Brien and is a culmination of their very productive creative relationship." O'Brien produced and mixed the album at his home base in Atlanta, Southern Tracks Recording Studio. Ready for 11 new Springsteen song titles? 1. Radio Nowhere 2. You'll Be Comin' Down 3. Livin' in the Future 4. Your Own Worst Enemy 5. Gypsy Biker 6. Girls in Their Summer Clothes 7. I'll Work for Your Love 8. Magic 9. Last to Die 10. Long Walk Home 11. Devil's Arcade Of these, only "Long Walk Home" has been heard before; Springsteen debuted the song with the Sessions Band and played it live exactly once, in London on November 11, 2006 (reportedly the day after he wrote it). Bet on "Radio Nowhere" as the first of these tracks we'll get to hear. When, exactly, remains to be seen -- stay tuned. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:31:06 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take That's the same way I feel, Jeannie! I'll wait to read the lyrics when I hear the CD, but I'm terrible at lyrics anyway. I'm still learning the words to BSN. LOL Jimmy In a message dated 8/16/2007 6:23:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dreamin1957jeannie@yahoo.com writes: > I'm not even touching the lyrics yet. I'll wait on hearing the words > alongside the music. To me, that's the best!! > > Jean > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:57:32 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Now THIS looks a little more interesting... Very Nice Mendel poster... Signed!: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230162138282 Best Regards, Pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 01:23:17 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Shine Lyrics..My take ===>hope or hopelessness? Monika wrote: Well, it seems anything Joni does is controversial, for lack of a better word. In this day in age, I think the lyrics fit perfectly with what is going on in the world. A good number of people recognize the atrocities of today and aren't happy with it. Joni is voicing this so eloquently as she does. I know the world is not a shiny, happy place overall. I do however think good exists behind the veils of tragedy, dishonesty, and lack of courtesy though. I also think the lyrics reflect hope. Though people are constantly complaining about things that seem like they will never change (or end as far as the war is concerned) there is still hope among us. I think Joni sees that too. I don't see the lyrics as bitter or resentful or anything like that. Just as honest. **** Honest. Exactement! We hold this truth to be self-evident: Joni Mitchell Never Lies! I've got Em's bumpersticker on my fridge to prove it! ; ) She holds out a candle and she shines it in on the problems of the world. Illumination of corruption. The truth hurts, but it can also set you free. And to me, she sounds ultimately hopeful amid all of the hopelessness she's witnessed in all her years. "I stepped outside of my little house and stood barefoot on a rock. The pacific ocean rolled towards me. Across the bay, a family of seals sprawled on the kelp uncovered by the low tide. A blue heron honked overhead. All around the house the wild roses were blooming. The air smelled sweet and salty and loud with crows and bees. My house was clean. I had food in the fridge for a week. I sat outside 'til the sun went down." You can almost hear the arbutus rustling, and the bumping of the logs. It also reminds me of: But I know my needs My sweet tumbleweed I need more quiet times By a river flowing You and me Deep kisses And the sun going down Sounds like kind of a portrait of contentment to me. She doesn't need the deep kisses and the ensuant tears anymore, though. It sounds like all her needs are being met. Like the psychologists say: You have to put on your own oxygen mask first, before you can help someone else. You have to be whole. I like knowing that she feels this peacefulness. If she feels that, then she can help spread it to others. Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - -- Martin Luther King, Jr. Ah, my favorite things: Peace & Joni! And to throw a little lightness on these things, my new daugher-in-law told me that my son was afraid for me to give the welcoming speech at the rehearsal dinner because he thought I'd start going on and on about peace and Joni Mitchell! (LOL....I did not!) Peace & Joni, Patti P. P.S. Thank you, Kevin and Monika, for the hope you give us for your generation. It warms the cockles of my heart to see young people getting Joni like you do. So here's to you May your dreams come true May old father time Never be unkind And through the years Save your smiles and your tears They're just souvenirs They'll make music in your heart Remember this Each new day is a kiss Sent from up above With an angel's love So here's to you May your skies be blue And your love blessed That's my best to you _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 01:40:21 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Grandma Carly & Grampa James Bon soir encore une fois: Carly Simon and James Taylor are going to be grandparents. Sally is having a baby! The years sure do spin by. I learned that here, where Carly fans can take a lovely tour of Martha's Vineyard: http://www.explorenewengland.com/travel?article=massachusetts/articles/2007/07/22/greenery_to_gallery_to_dockside_in_carly_simons_comfort_zones/&page=1 The pictures are nice, too. Enjoy! Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take ===>hope or hopelessness? now njc - --- Patti Parlette wrote: > And to throw a little lightness on these things, my > new daugher-in-law told > me that my son was afraid for me to give the > welcoming speech at the > rehearsal dinner because he thought I'd start going > on and on about peace > and Joni Mitchell! (LOL....I did not!) Wow. Imagine that. Can't think of why she might think that... Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:29:08 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, TV alert: Stephen Stills on Leno (re-run) For those who missed it last time around, Stephen Stills is going to be on Leno tonight. Which reminds me: Happy belated birthday to David Crosby who was 66 on August 14th. I got to sing "Happy Birthday" to him last year on the 15th which was a great thrill. He gave Graham the finger for mentioning his birthday. xo, pp _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:37:13 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: njc, TV alert: Stephen Stills on Leno (re-run) In a message dated 8/16/2007 10:33:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, loveuconn@hotmail.com writes: Which reminds me: Happy belated birthday to David Crosby who was 66 on August 14th. I got to sing "Happy Birthday" to him last year on the 15th which was a great thrill. He gave Graham the finger for mentioning his birthday. - ----------------------------------------------------- I listened to "If I Could Only Remember My Name" on his birthday which I have from the library.... - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:37:36 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, John Lennon available on iTunes John Lennon Goes Digital August 16, 2007 John Lennon's solo catalog has been made available on iTunes for the first time. Sixteen of Lennon's solo works were launched online on Tuesday, with the Lennon Legend and Acoustic compilations making their worldwide digital debuts. Exclusive video content will also be included with the albums "John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band," "Sometime in New York City," "Walls And Bridges," "Milk and Honey" and the collections "Anthology" and "Working Class Hero." "John would have loved the fact that his music will now be available in a format suited to a new generation of listeners," says Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono. Lennon's fellow Beatles, Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney, have both signed deals to allow fans to download their music from the Internet. Lennon was shot to death Dec. 8, 1980, by Mark David Chapman. Source: Hartford Courant See, Sister Catherine? I can talk about things other than Joni and peace! xo, pp _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:15:46 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics Michel asked: > Can anyone shed light on the > bizarre reference to the prisons of the Catholic Church?... > Here is one reference for you that Joni might be drawing from about St. John of the Cross, a monk who was a beautiful mystic poet, being held captive in a monatery prison. There is always corruption in the Catholic Church, but out of it the truth shines eventually and with it, reformation... like the Discalced Carmelites: On the night of December 2, 1577, a group of Carmelites, lay people, and men-at-arms broke into the chaplain's quarters, seized Fray John, and took him away. By a secret journey, with orders from Tostado, they carted him off, handcuffed and often blindfolded, to the monastery in Toledo, the order's finest in Castile, where nearly 85 friars lived. The acts of the chapter in Piacenza were read aloud to John by which he stood accused of being rebellious and contumacious. He would have to submit, or undergo severe punishment. But the accused friar reasoned that the chapter acts did not apply to him because he was at the Incarnation by order of legitimate authority, and he certainly was not obliged to renounce the way of life he had embraced along with Teresa. The punishment he received was imprisonment, according to the constitutions. His accusers locked him first in the monastery prison, but at the end of two months, for fear of an escape, they moved him to another spot, a room narrow and dark, without air or light except for whatever filtered through a small slit high up in the wall. The room was six feet wide and ten feet long. There John remained alone, without anything but his breviary, through the terribly cold winter months and the suffocating heat of summer. Added to all this were the floggings, fasting on bread and water, wearing the same bedraggled clothes month after month without being washed - and the lice. Teresa wrote to the king and pleaded that for the love of God he order Fray John set free at once. In the midst of this deprivation, Fray John was seeking relief by composing poetry in his mind, leaving to posterity some of the greatest lyric stanzas in Spanish literature - among them a major portion of The Spiritual Canticle. These verses suggest that in that cramped prison, stripped of all earthly comfort, he was touched with some rays of divine light. The cramped conditions faded, the friar's awareness expanded. "My beloved, the mountains. " Here too, in the dark emptiness, a spiritual synthesis began to flower. "Faith and love will lead you along a path unknown to you, to the place where God is hidden. Everything else gone, no one could divest him of these, and they gave him God. Taking advantage of a new jailer who was kinder and more lenient, John managed to get paper and ink so as to write down his poems. He also had the opportunity, during a daily reprieve from his cell, to familiarize himself with the monastery surroundings. Then, one hot night in August, after being held prisoner for nine months, emaciated and close to death, John chose life and undertook a dangerous escape he had plotted during the short periods out of his cell. He had discovered a window that looked down on the Tajo river, and underneath the window was the top of a wall. But, of course, there was a lock on his prison door. He solved that problem by loosening the screws of the lock while his jailer was absent. When the friars seemed to be asleep and the house all still, he pushed hard on the door of his prison and the lock came loose. This enabled him to leave his prison and find his way in the dark to the window. By means of a kind of rope made out of strips torn from two old bed covers and attached to a lamp hook, he escaped through the window onto the top of the wall. The wall encircled the monastery and its garden, so he walked around the top of it until he came to what he thought was the street side. There he jumped from the wall, only to find himself in another bad predicament. He had landed inside the courtyard of the Franciscan nuns of the Conception monastery that was adjacent to that of the Carmelites. Fortunately, in one corner of the nuns' garden he found that the stones in the wall could be used as steps, allowing him to climb over the wall to the city street and to his freedom. Some claimed his escape was miraculous. At any rate he was able to find refuge first with Teresa's nuns in Toledo and then, through their intervention, at the nearby hospital of Santa Cruz, where he was cared for secretly. http://www.carmelite.com/saints/john/b3c.shtml ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:54:20 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine lyrics Marion wrote: > (no birth control, no abortions, sexual inhibition generally, no > divorces, bans on certain books etc). To be a good Catholic you have to > create a personal prison for yourself. > Hi Marion, If abortion would have meant freedom for Joni, she wouldn't have Kelly Green today. As for birth control, historically one could say it was a source of prison rather than a freedom considering how many women using chemical birth control died from breast cancer before the right amount of progesterone was added to the pill. Birth control was invented by men so men could have sex with women whenever men wanted without the consequences. If it wasn't so and men wanted sexual freedom through birth control, they would have looked at tampering with their own physiology rather than the woman's. Sexual inhibition... I would say instead the Catholic church is totally sexual. The whole thing is set up around eternal consummation between God and the Church. For example read St. John of the Cross' Spiritual Canticle or The Living Flame of Love. Both are very sexual like the Song of Songs. Concerning the banning of books, the Catholic church is the only Chri stian church I know of that has had the balls to ban members from reading the Bible to prevent fundamentalist interpretations leading to the harm of people. In my experience with Catholicism, to be a good Catholic means to love as Jesus exemplified not to be legalistic like the Pharisees. My guess is that Joni is pointing to corruption in the Catholic church rather than the Catholic church at heart. I could be wrong of course. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 01:39:30 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >I get it. Like if someone wanted to use Joni's songs as a soundtrack for a > movie, or as inspiration for a dance group. Or if a high school wanted to > present "Romeo & Juliet". Ahh, the rules have changed. > > Jim L. You've missed my point completely. If someone who has never read poetry aloud, and knows nothing about Yeats, wants to read SDB or any other poem as performance, I say go for it, please go for it. If a high school wants to present Romeo and Juliet or Lear or Hamlet, I'm all for it. If any dance group wants to use Mitchell or whoever as background music, go right ahead. Same goes for using it as a soundtrack (Good Bob, I'd love that). If Mitchell wants to try to sing a great opera aria, I'm right there, eager to hear it. Those are ENTIRELY different actvities that taking, and changing, and diminishing, one of the great poems of the 20th century by turning it into a song. Lyrics are not poetry and poems are not lyrics. They have many things in common, but they are not the same. (Andrew Lloyd Webber effectively proved this for all time in the 1970s.) (Don't get me started on ALW.) I'm not offended by great art performed poorly or imperfectly; I'm offended by great art being fiddled with, especially by a great artist in another field. I'd go on, but luckily for the list I'm back from a grueling and exhausting trip out of town--we were very very lucky to get out of Houston this afternoon, since several interstates, including one we needed, were closed and underwater for a long time. Then I get back, turn on the news, and find out more miners have been killed trying to save the missing miners. Too sad for words. - --AJ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #325 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------