From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #315 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, August 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 315 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Shine Cover Art [tejas4x4@aol.com] Re: NJC JMDL Digest V2007 #313 [Motitan@aol.com] SV: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 ["Marion Leffler" ] Jimmy Webb Sunday AM- Joni Mention [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Best CD since Modern Times [Smurf ] Re: Best CD since Modern Times ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Best CD since Modern Times [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 ["Randy Remote" ] RE: Shine Cover Art i like it ["WATTS, LESLI" ] Re: Best CD since Modern Times [RoseMJoy@aol.com] SV: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 ["Marion Leffler" ] Best cd since Modern times ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Best cd since Modern times [merk54@aol.com] SV: Best cd since Modern times ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Shine Cover Art [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Shine Art/Drug talk ["Christopher Treacy" ] Lama's JMDL profile ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] This evening's compositions... [jeannie ] Amelia ["Caleb Gee" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:59:40 -0400 From: tejas4x4@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art RR - Your not the only...you can only have so many self portraits. Im with you on this one! FG - -----Original Message----- From: Randy Remote To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 9:47 am Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art Am I the only one who is greatly relieved that the cover? is not yet another flat, one-dimensional self portrait?? I don't see what's so bad about this one.? RR, army of one? ? >I was just looking at the monstrosity reported to be the Shine cover art >again this morning, and I was struck with this guess about it...? > J? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:14:44 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC JMDL Digest V2007 #313 In a message dated 8/10/2007 1:56:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@hughes.net writes: The only thing I can compare to is alcohol, and it has similar > effects, it certainly does not help you create or think but rather dulls > you. - ----------------------------------------------- I actually had a conversation with someone about this very topic---drugs and creativity. Someone was adamant that taking drugs actually enhanced creativity. I was on the other side. Now I can't actually say anything personally about cocaine (other than from what I have read) but this is what I think. I think that taking certain mind altering substances may expand your consciousness IN THE BEGINNING. I don't think that is far off. However, since drugs are harmful to your brain afterall, the continual use will only deteriorate your creativity and more or less your focus/concentration. Anyone who is really, heavily into drugs (and has been so for a while) is not going to be some great thinker coming up with masterpiece after masterpiece. The drugs will take their toll. I don't think Joni was heavy enough into drugs to allow the drugs to really mess with her head. Any actual drug addict is not going to be sitting around writing songs. John Lennon said his least prolific period was when he was HEAVY, HEAVY into drugs. You'll notice he didn't have as much input on Sgt. Pepper as he was dropping acid daily at that time. Also near the end of the Beatles, Paul was more "in charge" while John was heavily using heroine at that time. To sum this all up, George Harrison once said this about drugs: (this is paraphrased as I don't remember what he said word for word) They'll take you from A to B but you've got to be straight to get to C. (something like that) - -Monika, forgive me if there were typos! I've been getting up at 4:30 AM the last few days for work and am still adjusting.....I've gotten a total of 9 hours of sleep the last three days....(it is tough to change your sleep schedule in just a few days) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 20:20:56 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 Yes Randy I don't doubt she used drugs, everybody in the pop business did so why should she be an exception. What I wonder about is if she could have written her lyrics/music under the direct influence of drugs. I know different drugs have different effects, some are uppers and some are downers, but as far as I have been able to observe, none of them makes you cleverer, more creative, more beautiful. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Randy Remote Skickat: den 10 augusti 2007 18:44 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 > Joni's use of drugs, like her smoking habits, are her own business > entirely, > imo, even if I find the idea disturbing, as I would with anybody. But - I > wonder if any of Joni's albums can have been created under the direct > influence of drugs? I don't know from personal experience how drugs work > but > I have seen people react to drugs, and they were either drowsy and > incomprehensible or they were very speeded and chatty but talking > nonsense, > really. The only thing I can compare to is alcohol, and it has similar > effects, it certainly does not help you create or think but rather dulls > you. Cocaine doesn't make you drowsy! Quite the opposite. There are lots of classifications of drugs; stimulants like coke, cigarettes, caffiene (yes, pepsi is a drug!), psychedelics, depressants like alcohol, pills, heroin, hypnotics like Prosac and television. Drugs are everywhere in various forms. It's funny that people have such a naive attitude about musicians and drugs, or have this virginal picture of Joni. Like you say, artists and writers have been using mind altering substances for centuries. Often alcohol (Hemingway, Oscar Wilde, etc), so if something better came along, (and most drugs are better than alcohol, don't ask me how I know), why wouldn't they try it? And she did. You can bank on it. RR So if Joni was using drugs I imagine she did it on her leisure time and > maybe worked through some of that experience later in her lyrics and > music. > > Then again, given my inexperience with drugs, I might be entirely wrong. > Anyhow, it seems to me that drugs have always been associated with artists > and writers and romanticized in a way they probably don't deserve. For as > far as I know, the average drug user is not a creative artist but suffers > from a prosaic addiction. > Marion > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Jerry > Notaro > Skickat: den 10 augusti 2007 13:58 > Till: Randy Johnson; Joni List > Dmne: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 > > Having listened again to HISL >> recently, does anyone else think it might be a drug-induced album? > > When I first heard it I certainly thought she had been on something! > Joni had always been honest about the drug use of that era but has also > played down their influence on her music. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:37:15 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Jimmy Webb Sunday AM- Joni Mention Hi, all, If anyone would like to check this out, WFUV is having an "interview with & performance by" songwriter Jimmy Webb, Sunday morning during the 8 to 11 AM "Sunday Morning Breakfast" show. Jimmy is supposed to be telling personal stories about him and people like Sinatra, Elvis and Joni. It's on WFUV 90.7 FM (out of the Bronx, NY) or streaming online (available through your computer) at WFUV.org. Kenny B ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Best CD since Modern Times Pierre Perrone wrote: "Mitchell's eagerly awaited comeback could also help put in perspective her unique achievements and demonstrate how much she has inspired and influenced everyone . . ." 'Comeback'! I hate that word! It's a 'return'! --Joni Desmond - --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:52:32 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Best CD since Modern Times Thanks for posting this, Jer... Intriguing to me is: > the most bare album she has made since the early Seventies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:53:35 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Best CD since Modern Times We can only hope! > Thanks for posting this, Jer... > Intriguing to me is: > >> the most bare album she has made since the early Seventies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:20:38 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: RE: Shine Cover Art i like it hi folks! back from oaxaca where i was studying---- i've been increasingly frustrated by the reductions of large paintings scanned down to fit the cd format. the pictures on dreamland were a good beginning, but i 'd rather buy a book of the paintings or go to an exhibit and feel the strokes. so, i too think it's wonderful that the cover doesn't have yet another miniscule exploration or her own face! Yes to exploring the changes but on every, every cover? i've been waiting for this. thanks guys for helping me verbalize what i've been kicking around in my mind. a bit like what joni does for us , don't cha think? the fact that joni is working in as a collaborator, even to the point of putting the dancers on the cover, in my mind, highlights another dimension of joni the artist, seeker and maturing soul. the whole concept behind green flag song-- the carnage of war is outward - helping a struggling company - outward! go joni! but, ( please forgive me), her never ceasing self promotion is not neglected - the ballet film is coming out is it not? AND and i like the image. it might be a clichi but it could also be called a classic pose. i love dance, many long years ago i danced and the tension in a movement like this was thrilling to me. we don't know or do we? that this photograph wasn't taken by joni. so it may indeed be her art. one can hope and i for one hope to see more. just my take , love to all lesli ________________________________ From: owner-joni@smoe.org on behalf of tejas4x4@aol.com Sent: Fri 8/10/2007 10:59 AM To: guitarzan@hughes.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art RR - Your not the only...you can only have so many self portraits. Im with you on this one! FG - -----Original Message----- From: Randy Remote To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 9:47 am Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art Am I the only one who is greatly relieved that the cover? is not yet another flat, one-dimensional self portrait?? I don't see what's so bad about this one.? RR, army of one? ? >I was just looking at the monstrosity reported to be the Shine cover art >again this morning, and I was struck with this guess about it...? > J? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:44:37 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best CD since Modern Times Wow and WOW, thanks Jerry for posting the review. I am really getting psyched. Speaking of Modern Times, I really miss this CD. I left it behind at Jonifest. rosie in thankfully drenched NJ ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:28:11 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 Okay, so what are you saying, Randy? That drugs have no negative effect on creativity? That good stories about drugs are valid? Well, they might be if you are a rich superstar who doesn't have to go to work at 8 in the morning but can sleep as along as she/he wants and have a doctor at your call if something should go wrong with this gorgeous trip anyhow. Thats a far cry from your average addict trying to get his/her fix and having to do all sorts of not so nice things to get it. And I still don't believe that drugs expand your mind - but I would have to try them to be sure, and I won't do that! Marion, fair and square - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Randy Remote Skickat: den 10 augusti 2007 21:21 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #313 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Best cd since Modern times Thank you Jerry! Can't wait - but was disturbed when reading that it won't be released in Europe until the end of September. So we will have to wait longer than you lucky ones in the US and Canada? And what about the proposed release party in the chat room? Does this mean it's going to have to be a North American exclusive? Boohoo. Marion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:59:19 -0400 From: merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Best cd since Modern times Marion, If I read this all correctly, it actually comes out in Europe a day earlier than the US.? The US release date is Sept. 25, while Europe is Sept. 24. Jack - -----Original Message----- From: Marion Leffler To: 'Jerry Notaro' ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 3:40 pm Subject: Best cd since Modern times Thank you Jerry! Can't wait - but was disturbed when reading that it won't be released in Europe until the end of September. So we will have to wait longer than you lucky ones in the US and Canada? And what about the proposed release party in the chat room? Does this mean it's going to have to be a North American exclusive? Boohoo. Marion ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 23:15:01 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Best cd since Modern times Thanks Jack! I dont know what made me read a later date  sheer apprehension maybe? Anyhow, Im relieved to be wrong! Marion _____ Fren: merk54@aol.com [mailto:merk54@aol.com] Skickat: den 10 augusti 2007 22:59 Till: marionleffler@telia.com; notaro@stpt.usf.edu; joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: Best cd since Modern times Marion, If I read this all correctly, it actually comes out in Europe a day earlier than the US. The US release date is Sept. 25, while Europe is Sept. 24. Jack - -----Original Message----- From: Marion Leffler To: 'Jerry Notaro' ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 3:40 pm Subject: Best cd since Modern times Thank you Jerry! Can't wait - but was disturbed when reading that it won't be released in Europe until the end of September. So we will have to wait longer than you lucky ones in the US and Canada? And what about the proposed release party in the chat room? Does this mean it's going to have to be a North American exclusive? Boohoo. Marion _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:44:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: passion, opinions and finding the cost of Shine Debra Shea raised some very good thoughts when she wrote: Joni fans sure are passionate! Another way Joni fans show their passion, Christian, is to look closely, really closely, at whatever she does and have an opinion about it. That opinion may not always be 100% favorable. Every artist knows that once the work goes out into the marketplace, it's up for grabs. Thank goodness that after decades in the marketplace, Joni still has fans that are paying such close attention. And, you're right, Christian, the music is her most important gift. Brace yourself, though. There will probably be less than 100% favorable reactions to that too. and now me: In the past, I, too, have taken the opines of others somewhat personally, when it comes to Joni and her muse-ic. For me, it was often a knee jerk reaction, as if *i* was being attacked. (oh silly woman~). Perhaps, similar to Joan, I'm a sensitive scorpion :-P. That said, I've mellowed out a lot over the years, (for the most part ;-). Agreed, when Joni brings us new work to the table, many of her fans will take out the magnifiying glass, as well as taking a look through the retrospectoscope, an opportunity to critique and compare to their hearts content. I don't know how I feel about the new cover. I look forward to seeing it in the palm of my hand, no matter what. nice find there Catherine, re: the left coast restaurant and Joni's painting. Tres cool. Having read through one of the many reviews posted of late, I couldn't help but giggle at the description of Joni going up to the Wilds of Canada ;--) Mags, one of the wild women. npimh: it doesn't matter what it means to me, what does it mean to you? ~JM p.s. as for the cost of Shine, I was in McNally Robinson bookstore this afternoon, and was told that Shine will be sold there for $14.99, (Canuckian), due to some deal with Universal Records. all that's all she wrote. - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:01:19 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art LOL @ Smurf. "backal"? That's hilarious. Let's toast to all the "coffee-drinking children" of the world. Bless them all. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:08:30 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Shine Cover Art I have to agree with you to an extent, RR. She has probably done enough self portraits to last a lifetime although, in Joni's defence, they have all been in quite different styles. I would still like to see her own art on the cover. It has been a theme Joni kept up since her first album. If she wanted to break with tradition, I would prefer to have one of her non self portrait paintings on the cover. Or, as I suggested before, some of the photography from her recent exhibition in LA. They would certainly go with the theme of some of the songs on this album. Mark in Sydney NP If I Has a Heart - JM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:37:17 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Shine Art/Drug talk I guess I'm slow on the uptake this week..just seeing this now (although this image isn't listed with the Shine entry on Amazon - did they take it down?) I have to say - it IS a nice change of pace. While I like the painting on the cover of T'Logue, it's an older likeness of Joni, not one she painted in her current image. Ditto Dreamland and .Survival. I think the blue bar is probably a paper band that slides off (as I think someone else said) and that it obscures bare ass (as yet another 'someone else' said). Shine. Heh. Kinda funny. Or maybe it's a slipcover and the same inage exists underneath, unadorned. I rather like it. It's not so fragile seeming. And there's probably more art on the interior. While I'm here - the drug thing. Joni told musician magazine a while back (in their 'drug' issue) that she felt like drugs produced a wild boost to creativity initially, then came back to bite you in the ass later. My feeling is this: Starting around the time of C&S, coinciding with her LA Express tours, Joni started using more and more cocaine. I think that drug fueled the entire Rolling Thunder tour, and I think it's one of the reasons she needed to regroup after and she used the need to get her car back acorss the country as an excuse to detach. Look at the pics of her at Mandolin Brothers - too thin. Pointy, in fact. I think the cocaine experiment worked well for Hejira, but by the time of DJRD, perhaps she felt it was muddying the waters of her mojo. I also have always felt that during this time, Joni started to lose her sense of humor a bit - something cocaine definitely does to you (I speak from unfortunate experience - I spent several years as a slave to the drug, eventually moving into the freebase realm - basically making my own crack.the 90's were a mess for me - I've now been sober for a number of years). You can even hear it in the different ways she adresses her audience between the 74 and the 76 tours - - she sounds cranky, malcontent - irritable and misunderstood-feeling during the latter performances. The Court and Spark shows still had some of the bubbly, pre-jazz Joni flavor to them, a playfulness that went missing for a while. I think the Guerin breakup happened somewhere in there as well, probably making her even more fussy. I've also always thought there was probably a fair bit of cocaine use during the Wild Things tour - young guys, early 80's.seems inevitable. But Joni was giddy and in love, so the personailty shift is less noticeable. I remember being on the phone with Wally Breese sometime in 1994, on the cusp of 'Indigo' coming out.I was telling him about this dream I'd had regarding the cover art for the "How Do You Stop" CD single - a photo of JM, seated before a huge pile of white powder, her fingers running up into her hair/over her ears on either side and a look of horror on her face with the song title underneath. I've mentioned that here before - the mind works in strange ways - in this case, telling me I'd ought to get out while I still can. Oh well - live and learn. Cheers, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:40:18 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Lama's JMDL profile The last time I edited my profile about 3 months ago, I closed with "... I'm glad the crops rotated again. Did ya hear that Starbucks is handling McCartney's new one?" Coincidence? Are FOJ lurking about? Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: This evening's compositions... ...seem as such warm arrangements. Jean - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:19:23 +0000 From: "Caleb Gee" Subject: Amelia Hello all, I am new. I just wanted to get some opinions on Joni's song "Amelia". I think this is one of the most beautiful songs I have ever heard, and when listening to it I get a rare emotional interaction with the artist that I have never felt before. I just want to get some responses about this amazing and touching masterpiece. _________________________________________________________________ Former Police Officer Paul Gillespies TAKE BACK THE INTERNET tips and tricks, watch the video now http://safety.sympatico.msn.ca/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #315 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------