From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #263 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 263 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Judgement of the moon and stars; Joni's songs as life themes ["Marion Lef] Politics NJC ["Marianne Rizzo" ] politics. . drugs, sex and war njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] re: Politics and fall guys (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc [Bob Muller ] Rolling Stone ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:38:58 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Judgement of the moon and stars; Joni's songs as life themes Hi all, back from a computer-free two week vacation in Germany and just finished reading my jmdl-mail. There were some great threads I really enjoyed, particularly For the roses. I never realised the connection with horse races, this insight gave me a completely new perspective! And the Mingus thread made me want to listen to Mingus again. I haven't heard it in years. Unfortunately I only have the album and don't own a record player anymore. Got to get the cd. As for Judgement I feel the other way round, Monika. I used to like the song when I first heard it but nowadays it doesn't do much for me and I tend to skip it. It feels a little pretentious to me, a little overloaded. Though "you got to shake your fists at lightning now, you got to roar like forest fire" is a great line to remember whenever you feel discouraged. Monika, you also asked for "life theme" songs of Joni's. I tried and tried but I cannot for the life of me pick any. Instead, lots of lines from Joni's lyrics run through my life like threads in tapestry. To mention a few that come to mind right now: "I am on a lonely road and I am travelling, looking for something, what can it be" "but you're bound to lose if you let the blues get you scared to feel" "fly, silly seagull, no dreams can possess you, no voices can blame you for sun on your wings" And lots more. Joni's songs pop up in my mind nearly every day, sometimes when I wake up in the morning and sometimes later, and I am always wondering which one it will be today! It can be triggered by memory, mood or things happening around me. I know Patti has this kind of experience, does anybody else? I love this list! Marion in Sweden ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:36:10 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Politics NJC I dislike him very much. (Rush Limbaugh) From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com If I'm not mistaken, Rush is the guy who gave us the term "Feminazi" to pretty much label any woman who disagrees with him (strong or not). Of course, you can always debate as to how much of him is sincere and how much is created to generate publicity and sell his products to those who buy into his schtick. Bob _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:02:41 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc I really don't care what Rush or anybody does with their pills. . It is not my business. . people should be able to do what ever pills they want. . and I don't care what anybody does sexually. . this is not my business. . invading countries. . it's all of our business _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:10:23 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Judgement of the moon and stars; Joni's songs as life themes Welcome back, Marion - and I can appreciate your "unplugging" for two weeks since I did the same when I was on vacation. And this was a bit ironic because in years past I used a laptop and the beachhouse dial-up connection to check email and ebay and such. This year the beach house added a broadband connection and some of us had laptops but I just decided to take a week off, it just seems especially crazy to be doing that when the sand & surf are a 2-minute walk away. And as far as 'Joni life themes', I'll repeat that my top choice would be "today I am not prey to dark uncertainty". Bob NP: XTC, "Holly Up On Poppy" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:30:43 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Judgement of the moon and stars; Joni's songs as life themes Hello there and welcome back! How was Germany? It seems like such an interesting country especially with its extensive history. Some say they think the German language is the ugliest sounding language but I've always liked it. It's so raw and harsh. Anyhow, in answer to your question, "It can be triggered by memory, mood or things happening around me. I know Patti has this kind of experience, does anybody else?" Sometimes I wake up with lyrics going 'round my head. I'll wake up and the first thing I think are of those lyrics. It has happened with Joni songs and other songs as well. The funniest are the times when songs are in my head upon waking that I didn't even realize I knew the words to (songs I don't listen to much or whatever the case may be) but I suppose subconsciously I do. But often I'll be talking to someone and a lyric or quote will pop into my head as a response to them and usually I respond with that lyric or quote. I do this with Joni songs all the time as well as quoting Nietzsche or sometimes even Shakespeare. Nobody ever knows what I'm talking about or more or less they don't realize I'm quoting something (it is particularly funny when doing so with Shakespeare and people don't realize its Shakespeare or maybe they just don't really listen??). A few times (with my brother) I quoted some Joni lyrics and he atleast realized I was quoting something. He just rolled his eyes and said, "what are you quoting now? Neil Young right? Or no, Joni Mitchell? Some more Nietzsche?" It's fun to confuse people.... - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Judgement of the moon and stars; Joni's songs as life themes Hello, Marion. You spoke so pretty, like FTR, on your message. Germany sounds nice around this time of the year. I hope you added nice memories to your travelogue. I, too, feel the same way, concerning Joni quotes. If Joni hadn't poured out her lines from time to time, her words wouldn't be flowing from me all of the time. Sometimes, I think Joni may have used less known words and/or created pretty phrases that eventually get used by the media and masses. I've wondered if she came out with, "Adding insult to injury." Or, "Just-Ice." Or, "You can lie, and cheat, and scheme and scam. Beat 'em any way you can. The phrase, "Big-Whig Financiers," I hadn't heard other than in my history books during the 'robber-baron' times when greed monopolized the rail-road system. And history repeats itself. This administration and corporate CEOs and big whig financiers are monopolizing the world economy these present times, these troubled times. And China is free-wheeling and dealing without many regulations. I can't stand, nor trust products from China. I get disgusted when I have seen how they (Chinese) brutalize the creatures. Even the pope recently stated that the way a culture treats its animals, is the same way it views and treats its citizens. They're barbaric with the poor animals and I can't imagine the prisons and orphanages and their social services.. Germans treat their pets with much love and lots of respect. Sincerely, jean Marion Leffler wrote: Hi all, back from a computer-free two week vacation in Germany and just finished reading my jmdl-mail. There were some great threads I really enjoyed, particularly For the roses. I never realised the connection with horse races, this insight gave me a completely new perspective! And the Mingus thread made me want to listen to Mingus again. I haven't heard it in years. Unfortunately I only have the album and don't own a record player anymore. Got to get the cd. As for Judgement I feel the other way round, Monika. I used to like the song when I first heard it but nowadays it doesn't do much for me and I tend to skip it. It feels a little pretentious to me, a little overloaded. Though "you got to shake your fists at lightning now, you got to roar like forest fire" is a great line to remember whenever you feel discouraged. Monika, you also asked for "life theme" songs of Joni's. I tried and tried but I cannot for the life of me pick any. Instead, lots of lines from Joni's lyrics run through my life like threads in tapestry. To mention a few that come to mind right now: "I am on a lonely road and I am travelling, looking for something, what can it be" "but you're bound to lose if you let the blues get you scared to feel" "fly, silly seagull, no dreams can possess you, no voices can blame you for sun on your wings" And lots more. Joni's songs pop up in my mind nearly every day, sometimes when I wake up in the morning and sometimes later, and I am always wondering which one it will be today! It can be triggered by memory, mood or things happening around me. I know Patti has this kind of experience, does anybody else? I love this list! Marion in Sweden - --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:59:59 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, impeachment broadcasting tower waving for you Warning: political content Driving into work this morning (on a black road, double yellow line) I was tuned into WHUS, our college station. I was very surprised to hear Chevy Chase (a.k.a. Clark W. Griswold) on my radio, talking about impeachment. Oh honey, you turn me on! I'm a wildwood flower Waving for you Broadcasting tower Waving for you He said the ad was sponsored by: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q= So when I had time on my hands, I went there, and got to hear the ad again. I was also pleased to hear Pete Seeger, and my favorite childhood actress, Hayley Mills, who had ads of their own. (The ads are on the right side of your screen.) And you know, there may be more: "AfterDowningStreet.org would like to thank The People Speak radio, Pacifica radio, Ed Asner, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Tim Robbins, Cindy Sheehan, Ann Wright, Chevy Chase, Tim Goodrich, Nadir, Medea Benjamin, Cynthia McKinney, Hayley Mills, Immortal Technique, Thom Hartmann, Steve Bhaerman, Pete Seeger, William Rodriguez, Randi Rhodes, Gore Vidal", Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter. Ha ha ha! Just kidding on those last two! These Public Service Announcements are available for download and play on the radio. Simply right-click on an image and choose "Save Target As." " I'm just chicken scratching for impeachmentality, looking for fertile ground and throwing out seeds here, there, and everywhere, Patti P. "Oh, that's just George W. Bush burning down the world. All my paintings lately have been Bush bonfires. It's the same as the forest fire in Bambi, with the hideous white hunger." -- J.M. Let's aim the hoses on him! _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc I don't give a damn what both Rush and Bush have got to say. Dubya's giving a speech right now concerning the long-term strategy of this war with Iraq. I cannot believe these Fellini circuses and ugly, ugly lies happening right in front of my eyes. It's absurd, really. Truly, jeannie Marianne Rizzo wrote: I really don't care what Rush or anybody does with their pills. . It is not my business. . people should be able to do what ever pills they want. . and I don't care what anybody does sexually. . this is not my business. . invading countries. . it's all of our business _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:26:41 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc Bush, in his speech right now, is saying that terrorists thrive in chaos and they like the turmoil. Duh, Dubya, it's part of their culture since pre-Biblical times--the desert teaches people many, many things. Well, he should have known this and should have learned some of Daddy's lessons from the first invasion of Iraq, 'Desert Storm' (ohhh, brother) and Afghanistan and not talk and live so arrogantly and provacatively. Remember that country singer I can't remember his name) who came out with this stupid, idiotic, tacky song, where he belches out something like, "I'll stick my American boot up your ass."? I wonder what tune he's singing now. No more, please, because this absurdity is way out of line--help me understand!! jean NP: Like A Rolling Stone--Bob Dylan How does it feel to be all alone With no direction at home nor abroad? Marianne Rizzo wrote: I really don't care what Rush or anybody does with their pills. . It is not my business. . people should be able to do what ever pills they want. . and I don't care what anybody does sexually. . this is not my business. . invading countries. . it's all of our business _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com - --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:09:29 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc That would be Toby Keith..a registered democrat. Mr.. Keith was interviewed by the late Ed Bradley.. and in this interview he told Bradley that he sang that song to lift the morale of the troops while during a U. S. O. tour. He supports the troops! Btw..TK was not for going into Iraq. Apparently.. one of the generals over there heard him sing the song.. I don't know the title.....and asked him when he got back to the states ....to please record it. And ..as they say..the rest is history. I called a friend and she gave me all this info. I had heard the song on several occasions..but not my cup tea. I am more selective when it comes to country music. So what tune is he singing now? He is probably whistling dixie...I'm sure he made a mega ton from that song. Bree > Remember that country singer I can't remember his name) who came out >with this stupid, idiotic, tacky song, where he belches out something like, >"I'll stick my American boot up your ass."? I wonder what tune he's singing >now. > > No more, please, because this absurdity > is way out of line--help me understand!! > > jean > > NP: Like A Rolling Stone--Bob Dylan > >I don't care what anybody does sexually. . >this is not my business. . > >invading countries. . >it's all of our business > >_________________________________________________________________ >http://newlivehotmail.com > > > >--------------------------------- >8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:49:24 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: VLJC: Top 10's from the JMDL library I was reading random articles from the JMDL library and came across "Maverick's Top 10 Lists" by Joel Selvin from the San Francisco Chronicle. If you haven't read it, here is the rather interesting part: "Record industry gadfly Bob Lefsetz puts out a bimonthly insiders newsletter, the Lefsetz Letter, that purports to track trends in the music business. It really is little more than his own crusty opinions, handed out at no small expense to an elite readership of record biz bigwigs. He didn't really expect to raise such a ruckus with his latest issue, but his list of Top 10's has been drawing insults and accolades from the top quarters of industry. Again, it is vintage Lefsetz, an opinionated smart-mouth with a mailing list, but if he didn't have some kind of special insight, would anybody care? Here's some of the things that has the moguls mumbling: Top 10 Most Respected Artists: 1) John Lennon, 2) Peter Gabriel, 3) Joni Mitchell, 4) Van Morrison, 5) Prince, 6) Neil Young, 7) Bob Dylan, 8) Jeff Beck, 9) Bob Marley, 10) Steve Winwood. Top 10 Least Respected Artists: 1) Milli Vanilli, 2) Samantha Fox, 3) Tiffany, 4) New Kids on the Block, 5) Poison, 6) MC Hammer, 7) Starship, 8) Martika, 9) Vixen, 10) Madonna. Top 10 Grudgingly Respected, But Hated Artists: 1) Richard Marx, 2) Phil Collins, 3) Bad English, 4) Crosby, Stills and Nash, 5) Billy Joel, 6) Kenn y G, 7) Terence Trent D'Arby, 8) Chicago, 9) Asia, 10) Madonna. Top 10 Albums Artists Will Probably Never Equal: 1) "Back in Black" by AC/DC, 2) "Blood on the Tracks" by Bob Dylan, 3) "Crosby, Stills and Nash" by Crosby, Stills and Nash, 4) "Colour by Numbers" by Culture Club, 5) ' 'Thriller" by Michael Jackson, 6) "Back In the High Life" by Winwood, 7) ' 'Band on the Run" by Paul McCartney, 8) "Pet Sounds" by the Beach Boys, 9) ' 'Layla" by Eric Clapton, 10) "Late for the Sky" by Jackson Browne. Top 10 Reasons Why Most Artists Never Come Back: 1) They never had any talent to begin with. 2) They're burned out. 3) Nobody believes in them. 4) The artist has lost his desire. 5) The artist has lost his confidence. 6) Everyone tells the artist he's a has-been. 7) Everyone believes musical styles have changed. 8) Record companies believe Americans are only interested in new artists (and it's easier to break new acts rather than has-beens). 9) Record companies believe recording artists have to be young. 10) Everyone believes if the artist hasn't had a hit in years, he's not capable of having another one. Top 10 Problems With Album Radio: 1) There aren't enough stations. 2) Refusal to play new music. 3) Insistence on playing old music. 4) Refusal to take risks. 5) Listening to consultants. 6) Research. 7) Pompous, slimy deejays. 8) Not respecting the audience. 9) Refusal to program more than one great track from a new album. 10) Programming with a national attitude instead of a local attitude. - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:24:03 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: A Joni question... I just have a quick question. Normally I don't ask these things (as its a private matter) but were Joni and Jaco Pastorius ever involved? I only ask due to something I read recently. - -Monika P.S. You can email offlist with the answer if you know as I don't want to make a discussion out of this. There are more important things to discuss but my curiosity always eats at me. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:41:10 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: NJC Harry Potter? Does anyone here read the Harry Potter books or see the films? I particularly like the books better than the films though I do enjoy the films. It is just that books are always more thorough than movies. I'm seeing the next HP installment tomorrow afternoon and will be reading the last book when it comes out. I remember when I was going to read the first Potter book. My sister had read it to see what all the fuss was about and recommended it to me. I recally being VERY skeptical. I mean, come on, wizards, wands, magic? I thought it sounded all a little silly. But I gave it a shot and was very pleased. I think the books are very well written, awfully clever, and all around entertaining/enticing. Anyone else? - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:53:21 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: re: Politics and fall guys (njc) <> She was indeed covert. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/ Maybe Rush is right. We could use unskilled Mexicans here to replace American jobs that require no knowledge - like Limbaugh's job! Shame on this administration (and the cowardly Dems) for making the US less safe and giving aid and comfort to the terrorists! The corruption just keeps getting worse each and every day....to the point where I almost feel the need to cover my eyes with my hands to avoid exposure to all this sickening crap! Okay, I'm done venting... thanks.... back to Joni.... Mia _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:28:04 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: re: Politics and fall guys (njc) Mia....not trying to be confrontational.. or sarcastic....I'm just trying to understand...but what corruption......getting worse by the day....every day? Would you mind expounding on your statement? Enlighten me a little? Thanks ... Bree >The corruption just keeps getting worse each and every day....to the point >where I almost feel the need to cover my eyes with my hands to avoid >exposure to all this sickening crap! > >Okay, I'm done venting... thanks.... back to Joni.... > >Mia > >_________________________________________________________________ >http://newlivehotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:49:00 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Judgement Of The Moon & Stars > From: Bob Muller > Subject: Re: Judgement Of The Moon And Stars > > JOTMAS was my hands-down fave the very first time I heard FTR. Like all of > her best songs, it succeeds on EVERY level; musically, lyrically, emotionally. > > It is a paean to Beethoven. > > I refer to it as "Joni Symphony #1", where Down To You is #2 and Paprika > Plains is #3. > I would probably say JOTMAS is my second favorite Joni tune after "Down To You" ;-) Kenny B ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:06:47 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: re:Judgement Of The Moon And Stars Hi Monika, JOTMAS is one of my favorite songs. It only took me three listenings and I was hooked. I also consider it as one of my favorite singing-(off-key, of course)-in-the-shower tunes. Love the part you mentioned, but beginning with "Draw yourself a bath..." Fun to sing A Capella, as is Lesson in Survival - -"Maybe it's paranoia, maybe it's sensitivity, your friends protect you, scrutinize me, I get so damn timid..," and Court and Spark -"His eyes were the color of the sand and the sea..." You asked "Are there some songs you didn't like from the start and then realized what you missed?" Yes - Paprika Plains. I can't say I hated it from the start, just that I used to skip it a lot because of all the other great songs on DJRD I was in a hurry to get to. Now I listen to it all the time in my car, and it literally makes me cry. It is so beautiful, an epic, a masterpiece! I can smell the wet grass and soap, and jungle gardenias, Pine Sol, and beer. Only Joni could make the word "galvanized" sound poetic. And channeling the both sides now of her people from childhood, "they would've cleared the floor just to watch that rain come down" So defining. Her fascination with the Native American culture, next her anger "But when the church got thru, they traded their beads for bottles..." - tragic, a culture utterly destroyed. But my favorite line of all is "I would beat the drum like war, I'd beat the drum, I'd beat the drum like war" - I feel just like a little kid again when I sing this. Joni even plays the piano like she's a little kid banging on the keys with lots of kiddie passion. And some of the piano chords have a Native American feel to them, or at least to me they do. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:15:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: politics. . drugs, sex and war njc And the song had nothing to do with patriotism, it's just that he was smart enough to realize that appealing to the jingoistic knuckledragging redneck mentality would sell LOTS of records. See also: Larry The Cable Guy Bob NP: Jonatha Brook & The Story, "And Our Faces, My Heart, Brief As Photos" - --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Rolling Stone The 40th Anniversary issue of Rolling Stone has some interesting Joni content. Mama Cass was definitely the founder of the Laurel Canyon "salon set" and Graham Nash has a nice piece called I Was There on the Laurel Canyon scene. Jerry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #263 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------