From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #179 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 2 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 179 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- House concerts and folk festivals ["Martin Giles" ] SV: hello, for the 1st time.... ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: "don't interrupt the sorrow"-instrumental????-Darned wrong!!! [Bob.] Re: My generation ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: It MAY be time for more Joni Covers! (Or...more Joni Covers? May Day, May Day!!) [Bob.Mu] Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC [Em ] Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: My Generation [Catherine McKay ] Re Various/"Cactus Tree" on MOA [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: My generation njc [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: My Generation [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: NJC 'BRANDO' on TCM ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC [BlueForThe] Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation [Em ] Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC ["Gerald A.] Re: JONI: A Dog or a Goddess? [Wtking59@cs.com] John Michael Talbot on sound, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation [Michael Flaherty ] Re: My generation ["AJ" ] Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC ["AJ" ] Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation ["rflynn@frontiernet.net" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:17:50 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: House concerts and folk festivals Hi folks Martin in London here (longtime lurker and occasional Jonifest attendee). To some of the jmdlers who are longer in the tooth, you'll know that I'm the guitarist in the UK band 'Stryngs'. For the shorter toothed, I very rarely post, but you may know Chris Marshall (our illustrious bass player) who posts more often :0) I'm putting out an inquiry to anybody in the US or Canada who puts on House Concerts, or knows anybody who does. My singer and I are intending to tour North America next year and are trying to put together a few gigs. Our band came together through the inspiration of Joni Mitchell, although I like to think we are not copyists in any way. I guess you might say we play contemporary acoustic/folk music; and we would love to do a house concert for you when we come over. You can listen to some of the band's music at www.myspace.com/stryngs and we will be making a DVD of a house concert that we will be playing later on this year in the UK, to use as a demo, so that you can get a good idea of our style. Anybody who might be interested, please email me off-list. Also - if anyone is involved with any folk festivals in the US or Canada next year, we would love to play there too. Thanks for the bandwidth. Martin Giles. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:16:55 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: hello, for the 1st time.... Hi Christian, welcome to the list, I'm glad to hear another European voice! (No offense to you lovely, friendly Americans, Canadians, Australians and maybe more). I wonder how many people on this list are from/live in European countries? Marion in Sweden - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Christian MACKOWSKI Skickat: den 1 maj 2007 23:25 Till: jmdl Dmne: hello, for the 1st time.... I'm coming into this JMDL for the first time and it's such a great moment...I've been waitin' for this moment for almost 35 ys,admiring all the Artwork of Joni, which I never saw in concert....I'm living in France, and got all the "masterpieces" in music albums,discs & DVD....first of all, I want to congratulate her because all she did is exceptionnal of beauty, it's enormous..really...and more, she's a painter too!!! does anybody knows if a "manifestation" in anyway is possible ?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 06:37:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: SV: My Generation - NJC - --- Marion Leffler wrote: > Thank you, thank you, Cassie, for that wonderful > link! It made my morning, > and I am now confident again that both my feet are > still outside the grave! > (You know, in Sweden we talk about the > fiftyfive-plus people - which > includes me - as if they were a problem. Mind you, > the retirement age is 65 > for both men and women, and the government is > planning to prolong it to 67, > even 70 has been mentioned. So where is the logic?). > Marion, smiling happily > I loved the video! They've already raised mandatory retirement age from 65 to 67 here in the province of Ontario. It doesn't mean you have to work that long but that you don't have to retire at 65. Which is great for people who would like to keep working, but may put pressure on others to stay longer than they'd really like to. Catherine Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:00:00 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: "don't interrupt the sorrow"-instrumental????-Darned wrong!!! There's ALWAYS Joni vinyl available on ebay - sometimes you can even get still-sealed copies. Bob NP: Joni, "She's The One" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: My generation Marion Leffler wrote: > I am 57 (am I the oldest one on the list?) Thank God. I thought I was. I'm 56. Actually is has pretty much been a given that Murphey will always be the oldest on the list no matter who joins :) My first hearing Joni: We had a summer home in Canada in Crystal Beach, Ontario (Does that bring back any memories for any Canadians on the list?) Being from Buffalo, NY I was aware of Canadian television and radio, but listened to it more in the summer since the reception was so good there. I first heard Joni on a Toronto radio station playing Night In the City. That voice just lept out of the speakers. I had a stereo, one piece, dual speaker GE radio, $29 that I listened to "FM radio" constantly. As I became a budding young hippie (and ultimately gay) boy I visited the very exciting haunt in Toronto called Yorkville. It was exotic and cosmopolitan compared to Buffalo, even though in previous decades the opposite had been true. I got to see Joni around Toronto, especially at Mariposa Folk Festivals. Joni seemed to me to represent everything I was seeking in my young life: freedom, intelligence, morality, truth, intimacy, and of course that gorgeous voice and talent. All these years later, she still does. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:20:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: It MAY be time for more Joni Covers! (Or...more Joni Covers? May Day, May Day!!) 'Preciate that, Mark - I had forgotten just how good that Pamela Shane track was as I had not heard it in a while. Sometimes I dread sitting down and working on my 'reviews' but I find when I do that I always hear things that I had not and as I'm focusing on the song I typically always find something to like about it. While I do love the reinventions (like Little Green), I also enjoy it when an artist sticks to Joni's original recipe but adds some extra spice to it, much like Shane does with hers. Bob NP: Drive-By Truckers, "Cassie's Brother" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 05:20:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC I wanted you guys here on the JMDL to know of this as well, if you didn't already. I am saddened to know that some of the troops reject the notion that one can support THEM and NOT support the war. That unless we support the violence and blind fighting, we do not support them at all. I am sad. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101572_pf.html *Why I Wanted to Sing at Walter Reed* Wednesday, May 2, 2007; A14 Regarding the April 28 Style article "At Walter Reed, Mellencamp Shuts His Mouth and Sings": Recently, John Mellencamp invited me to be his guest at a concert for recovering soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. I said yes immediately. Only later did I realize how the passage of time had informed my decision to join him. I have always been an advocate for nonviolence, and I have stood as firmly against the Iraq war as I did the Vietnam War 40 years ago. During that war, I could not, in good conscience, have "sung for the troops." Doing so would have meant condoning a war that was tearing soldiers, civilians, this country, Vietnam and, in some senses, the world, apart. I do not regret that decision. What I do regret is having ignored the needs of the men and women who returned from Vietnam. For some who were relatively unscathed, it seemed possible to get on with life, with or without all of their limbs intact. But it's clear that, for many, returning was hell. I realize now that I might have contributed to a better welcome home for those soldiers fresh from Vietnam. Maybe that's why I didn't hesitate to accept the invitation to sing for those returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. In the end, four days before the concert, I was not "approved" by the Army to take part. Strange irony. JOAN BAEZ Menlo Park, Calif. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101999_pf.html *Joan Baez Unwelcome At Concert For Troops* Singer Was to Perform With Mellencamp at Walter Reed By Teresa Wiltz Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, May 2, 2007; C01 When rocker John Mellencamp performed for the recovering soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center on Friday night, a couple of things were missing. He squelched his typically blistering rhetoric against the war in Iraq. Also MIA, as it turned out, was folkie and antiwar activist Joan Baez, who says she was disinvited from the event by Army officials. In a letter that appears today in The Washington Post, Baez says Mellencamp had wanted her to perform with him and that she had accepted his invitation. "I have always been an advocate for nonviolence," she writes, "and I have stood as firmly against the Iraq war as I did the Vietnam War 40 years ago. . . . I realize now that I might have contributed to a better welcome home for those soldiers fresh from Vietnam. Maybe that's why I didn't hesitate to accept the invitation to sing for those returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. "In the end, four days before the concert, I was not 'approved' by the Army to take part. Strange irony." Reached by telephone yesterday at her home in Menlo Park, Calif., Baez, 66, said she wasn't told why she was given the boot, but speculated, "There might have been one, there might have been 50 [soldiers] that thought I was a traitor." Baez, who said Mellencamp had asked her to sing two songs with him, has been an avowed anti-violence activist ever since she refused to participate in an air raid drill at her Southern California high school. In the '60s, her name became synonymous with the antiwar movement, though many of the protest songs she was famous for performing, such as "Blowin' in the Wind," were covers of Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger songs. In 1964 she protested the Vietnam War by refusing to pay 60 percent of her income taxes. In 1968, she married activist David Harris -- the two met in jail following a protest -- and moved with him into his draft resistance commune. Walter Reed officials did not respond to several requests for comment yesterday. But in an e-mailed statement published Monday on RollingStone.com, spokesman Steve Sanderson said the medical center received the requests for participation by Baez and broadcaster Dan Rather just two days before the concert. (Rather now works for HDNet, which broadcast the Mellencamp concert.) "These additional requirements were not in the agreement/contract and would have required a modification," Sanderson told the magazine's Web site. Not so, says Baez's manager, Mark Spector; Mellencamp's management invited Baez to perform in March with the understanding that things could take a while "because of the red tape of Army bureaucracy." Mellencamp's management handled all the arrangements, according to Spector. And up until April 23, when Baez was turned down, everything was "still inching forward," he said: "They'd booked her flight; they'd booked her hotel." Mellencamp's manager, Randy Hoffman, did not return calls requesting comment, and Mellencamp was ill and unavailable yesterday, according to his publicist. But Mellencamp told RollingStone.com: "They didn't give me a reason why she couldn't come. We asked why and they said, 'She can't fit here, period.' " "One of my more cynical friends said, 'They let the rats in, why not you?' " Baez said, laughing, referring to a recent exposi of living conditions at Walter Reed. It wasn't the first time that a performer has been blocked from Walter Reed. In 2004, Oscar-winning actress Patty Duke was refused permission to tour the wards. She'd been scheduled to visit troops as part of an Arts Advocacy Day in Washington. USO officials later said they didn't have enough time to let the patients know that a celebrity would be visiting -- although Michael Jackson was spotted in the ward the same night that Duke would have popped in for a visit. An HDNet spokeswoman said Rather had planned to interview Mellencamp at the hospital, but "schedule-wise we couldn't make it happen." After the concert, Baez said, Mellencamp left her a message to say, "I hope you're not mad at me." Her response: " 'Of course not. It's an honor to be turned down by the Army.' . . . But I would have been happier getting in . . . I thought times had changed enough." So what exactly happened? The answer -- since Walter Reed's officials aren't talking -- is blowin' in the wind. (Sorry, we couldn't resist.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:35:40 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: NJC 'BRANDO' on TCM Anybody else here catch part 1 of a brand-new 2-part documentary titled 'BRANDO' last night on TCM (my favorite channel, Turner Classic Movies)? I have a feeling Joni woulda LOVED it! ;-) Equal to any of the 'American Masters' specials, it's directed by the same man who did 'Steve McQUEEN: The Essence of Cool' doc a short while back. VERY well-made, very intense, with a virtual plethora of interview participants--everyone from Al Pacino to Johnny Depp (just to name 2 of MANY...no Joni sighting YET--LOL). Part 2 is tonight at 8 p.m. eastern (they're a FULL 90 minutes each, and in widescreen). ENJOY! XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Big Judy: How Far This Music Goes (1962-2004)' (2007) by Judy Henske ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:36:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Thoughts and question June 5, 1993 - Troubadours of Folk concert, Drake Stadium/UCLA; Westwood, CA It's a great show. Although the entire performance is not available on video, it is completely available in audio. Bob NP: Sufjan Stevens, "Chicago (Multiple Personality Disorder Version)" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:40:36 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: My generation That was really moving, Jerry! I wish Joni would read these posts occasionally. Maybe she wouldn't care so much about being unappreciated by the music business then, seeing how much she has meant and still means to us "ordinary" people, how she has touched our lives with her art. - On second thoughts, I guess it could be scary knowing you are a part of thousands of people's lives that you have never met and have no knowledge about. So maybe it would just give her the creeps. Complicated, fame is... Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: Gerald A. Notaro [mailto:notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Skickat: den 2 maj 2007 14:14 Till: Marion Leffler Kopia: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: My generation Marion Leffler wrote: > I am 57 (am I the oldest one on the list?) Thank God. I thought I was. I'm 56. Actually is has pretty much been a given that Murphey will always be the oldest on the list no matter who joins :) My first hearing Joni: We had a summer home in Canada in Crystal Beach, Ontario (Does that bring back any memories for any Canadians on the list?) Being from Buffalo, NY I was aware of Canadian television and radio, but listened to it more in the summer since the reception was so good there. I first heard Joni on a Toronto radio station playing Night In the City. That voice just lept out of the speakers. I had a stereo, one piece, dual speaker GE radio, $29 that I listened to "FM radio" constantly. As I became a budding young hippie (and ultimately gay) boy I visited the very exciting haunt in Toronto called Yorkville. It was exotic and cosmopolitan compared to Buffalo, even though in previous decades the opposite had been true. I got to see Joni around Toronto, especially at Mariposa Folk Festivals. Joni seemed to me to represent everything I was seeking in my young life: freedom, intelligence, morality, truth, intimacy, and of course that gorgeous voice and talent. All these years later, she still does. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:00:02 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation HEY, Stewart. Just turned 48 here (in March). My first Joni album was C&S (as I mentioned before, I would have been 14 or 15-years-old at the time), followed in quick succession by FTR, BLUE, LOTC, then MOA and the pre-BLUE era... ...and THEN came THOSL (!?!?!) ;-) XXXOOO, Billy ================================= Stewart (Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com) wrote: >>> I wonder what the average age group is of this discussion list. I am thinking that the majority that post are between 45 - 55. Like so many of you, I first stumbled upon Joni when she released C&S. I think that the reason I love the period from STAS - C&S as my favorite is because Joni just seemed to hit my buttons with everything she wrote. It was as personal, as self confessional, as introspective, as honest and as pure music as I had ever heard. But it was even more than that. Nobody had ever gotten inside my head and made me think and feel the way those songs did. The pureness and honesty of her words, the delicate melodies, her beautiful voice, it was like a drug. <<< >>>I really enjoy hearing everyone's differing opinion out here but I have this theory that many of us who are partial to C&S, FTR and Blue were actually introduced to her music in the C&S period when we were teenagers. <<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:02:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My Generation > Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com > > << discussion list. I am > thinking that the majority that post are between 45 > - 55. >>> I'm 54 (a full deck plus a couple of jokers). First Joni album was "Clouds" and I got that shortly after it was released, I think. From the opening notes of "tin angel" to the closing chords of "Both Sides Now", I was hooked. Promptly went and bought "song to a seagull" and then followed her chronologically. Lost sight of her some time in the late 70s, picked up again in the early 80s, lost sight of her again until about the time "Turbulent Indigo" came out. I was one of those kids who wrote poetry in her room. Joni was an inspiration, but a tough act to follow! Catherine Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:12:23 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re Various/"Cactus Tree" on MOA srobe444@aol.com wrote: >>> On the MOA front, I think the version of "Cactus Tree" there is incredibly beautiful and rich and deep and soulful "...with his facts and figures scrawled..." <<< Oooh, yesssssss--ME TOO (surprise, surprise)!!! ;-) XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Broken English' (1979) by Marianne Faithfull ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:15:01 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: My generation njc Children, children, calm your foolish fears. DAVID LAHM dob 12 12 40 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:20:24 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: My Generation Happy the Man (cactustreemotel@hotmail.com) wrote: >>> MOA followed quickly by C&S. <<< YES--my kinda man !!! XXXOOO, Billy (doin' his "happy man" dance) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:22:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: NJC 'BRANDO' on TCM Wtking59@cs.com wrote: > Anybody else here catch part 1 of a brand-new 2-part documentary titled > 'BRANDO' last night on TCM (my favorite channel, Turner Classic Movies)? I > have a > feeling Joni woulda LOVED it! ;-) Loved it. I'm sure they will repeat it so anyone who missed part one look for it. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:18:19 EDT From: BlueForTheRoses@aol.com Subject: Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:41:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, emzdogz@yahoo.com writes: I wanted you guys here on the JMDL to know of this as well, if you didn't already. I am saddened to know that some of the troops reject the notion that one can support THEM and NOT support the war. That unless we support the violence and blind fighting, we do not support them at all. I am sad. This saddens me as well....This is one of the biggest lies foisted on our troops, and on America, by the Bush administration. They want everyone to believe that if you are against the war, you are also against the troops. It's very frustrating when one encounters soldiers who actually support this view, but there are those out there that are very gung-ho republican, and fall into that category of breast-beating, super-patriots, that expect us all to support every military action that is taken by the US, PERIOD. That's why some people JOIN the military, in all actuality. But there are others in the military who know that we support them, but not necessarily the war. I met three different returning soldiers on my previous job, who had all just returned from Iraq...Two men and one woman. All three of them said to me that they couldn't understand why we were even there in the first place, and what they were really accomplishing. So there ARE soldiers out there who aren't necessarily behind the president, but simply doing their jobs. It's just too bad that the only ones we ever see on television seem to be the ones who are HUGE Bush supporters, of course thanks to his PR machine. Rick ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 06:24:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation will be 48 in about 6 weeks. Yikes! 1st Joni album was STAS, which I took with me to Europe in '78, and listened to ALOT during my couple years over there playing art student. Used to play NITC alot. (I mean play it myself, not just the record, lol) Was familar with MOA from before, though. Em - --- Wtking59@cs.com wrote: > HEY, Stewart. > > Just turned 48 here (in March). My first Joni album was C&S (as I > mentioned > before, I would have been 14 or 15-years-old at the time), followed > in quick > succession by FTR, BLUE, LOTC, then MOA and the pre-BLUE era... > > ...and THEN came THOSL (!?!?!) ;-) > > > XXXOOO, > Billy > > > ================================= > Stewart (Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com) wrote: > > >>> I wonder what the average age group is of this discussion list. I > am > thinking that the majority that post are between 45 - 55. Like so > many of you, I > first stumbled upon Joni when she released C&S. I think that the > reason I love > the period from STAS - C&S as my favorite is because Joni just seemed > to hit > my buttons with everything she wrote. It was as personal, as self > confessional, > as introspective, as > honest and as pure music as I had ever heard. But it was even more > than that. > Nobody had ever gotten inside my head and made me think and feel the > way > those songs did. The pureness and honesty of her words, the delicate > melodies, her > beautiful voice, it was like a drug. <<< > > >>>I really enjoy hearing everyone's differing opinion out here but I > have > this theory that many of us who are partial to C&S, FTR and Blue were > actually > introduced to her music in the C&S period when we were teenagers. <<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:48:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC Maybe it is because Baez admitted she and others made a mistake with the soldiers during the Vietnam War. I guess this administration is right. Never admit to any mistakes. BlueForTheRoses@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:41:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > emzdogz@yahoo.com writes: > > I wanted you guys here on the JMDL to know of this as well, if you > didn't already. > I am saddened to know that some of the troops reject the notion that > one can support THEM and NOT support the war. That unless we support > the violence and blind fighting, we do not support them at all. > I am sad. > > > This saddens me as well....This is one of the biggest lies foisted on our > troops, and on America, by the Bush administration. They want everyone to > believe that if you are against the war, you are also against the troops. > It's > very frustrating when one encounters soldiers who actually support this > view, > but there are those out there that are very gung-ho republican, and fall > into > that category of breast-beating, super-patriots, that expect us all to > support every military action that is taken by the US, PERIOD. That's why > some > people JOIN the military, in all actuality. But there are others in the > military who know that we support them, but not necessarily the war. I > met three > different returning soldiers on my previous job, who had all just > returned > from Iraq...Two men and one woman. All three of them said to me that > they > couldn't understand why we were even there in the first place, and what > they were > really accomplishing. So there ARE soldiers out there who aren't > necessarily > behind the president, but simply doing their jobs. It's just too bad > that > the only ones we ever see on television seem to be the ones who are HUGE > Bush > supporters, of course thanks to his PR machine. Rick > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:44:30 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: JONI: A Dog or a Goddess? I always thought Joni was GORGEOUS--especially back in the day. The big, beautiful smile, the high, pronounced cheekbones, the long blonde hair...the whole package! The 'Hejira' cover portrait was the main photo of Joni that my Dad (who always thought Cher was hot!--LOL) always hated so much...and which I've always felt was one of her all-time greatest pics. But then (as I said before)--goooooo figure... :-o XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Love Is a Dog From Hell' (1997) by Maggie Estep ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:54:28 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: John Michael Talbot on sound, njc http://www.stagedirections.com/JMTFiles/FAQ4%20Music%20Focus.mov ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 06:51:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation 47. I started listening to Joni in the late 70s. I read a lot about her before I started, and I THINK C&S was the first album I actually bought, although a friend had MoA, and I'm sure that's the first one I heard (full album). Hearing "Woodstock" from LotC on the radio one Sunday morning wass a major epiphany for me. I know that by the time WTRF was released I had everything she had recorded, knew them all well, and treated the release as an event. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:03:35 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: My generation Thanks for all the birthday wishes! Woke up this morning to a shiny red bag and in it the Joni Tribute album (yes, I am old--I mean CD), which I've been too busy to order or go buy. So I've listened, though not carefully, to most of it. And so far I like it. It's wonderful to hear these beloved songs with such new takes (other than Blue and Ladies of the Canyon, I hadn't heard any of them). Thanks again. AJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:16:39 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: Baez not allowed to sing for soldiers at Walter Reed NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" >I wanted you guys here on the JMDL to know of this as well, if you > didn't already. > I am saddened to know that some of the troops reject the notion that > one can support THEM and NOT support the war. That unless we support > the violence and blind fighting, we do not support them at all. > I am sad. This is a very hard concept for an astonishing number of Americans to understand: That one can be passionately against the war and fully and passionately support the troops. I faced this dilemma early on: my father--career Air Force-- was in Viet Nam my freshman year of college (1973). It was a difficult position to be in, when I was seventeen. I have friends whose son, a Marine, just returned from Iraq. His little sister, who attends the fairly progressive Episcopal Day School here in Jackson, wrote an article for her school newspaper about this very situation--how you can be against the war and that in no way should be confused with being against the men and women fighting that war. She also pointed out how few surgeon's--or other affluent Americans'--children are serving in the military. What I find especially heartbreaking is that I spent my childhood and adolescence with my country involved in a long ultimately pointless war, a war whose consequences will be with us a long time [my father was admitted to a nursing home this past week, and the major reason for that is profound nerve and muscular damage to his legs and feet from Agent Orange], and now I'm spending my middle years, as Henry James would say, watching my country make a similar, and in my opinion, more profound mistake. (Ironic that McNamara and Wolfowitz (sp) both planned pointless wars, and then both hightailed it to head the World Bank.) Santatana was right yet again: forget the past (or ignore it) and you're bound to repeat it. Oh well. AJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:19:14 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Miles Beyond Thank you SO MUCH, Mark--and sorry for the delay. I really appreciated your comments and feedback. I admire--and can even enjoy--S&L myself, but no amount of instrumental virtuosity and "gymnastics" can completely compensate for true artistic (in this case, musical) brilliance. After all, Joni's greatest work was always more about the compositions themselves--and her own performance, of course--rather than how cutting-edge her backup musicians could be. For example, Jaco Pastorius may very well indeed have been the most innovative bass player she ever worked with, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the best fit for Joni. Max Bennett, on the other hand, was more traditional--providing a perfect bed of sublime subtlety (not to mention a gracious sense of modesty). And in doing so, it allowed the spotlight to shine brightly--and solely--on Joni. But I believe she was too young (about 30)--and perhaps arrogant--to realize and/or appreciate it at the time, and they had a bit of a falling-out, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, I'm sure she was under a great deal of pressure and insecurity--mostly from herself--to top the impossibly high standards of 'Court and Spark' (which was--and remains to this day--an impossible task). Not to mention the extreme and sudden distractions due to massive stardom, a major tour, and maybe even drug and romantic problems--all resulting in a significant amount of neglect for her creative muse. And when she discovered, for the first time in her career, that she wouldn't be able to progress/expand/improve upon her most profound--yet universal and popular--work ("Jericho" and "Love or Money" were the first signs of trouble), she chose to completely change direction rather than create a second-rate C&S. To quote Joni herself: "nothing lasts for long..." At least, that's MY take--and I'm stickin' to it. ;-) But yeah, Mark--I DO have the HDCD remastered edition of 'Miles of Aisles' (of course! LOL). Just as you state, it sounds excellent. And I don't think it sounds particularly dated either. I truly wish they'd "expand" it one day, with perhaps some additional songs from C&S. And I USED to own that Tom Scott & the L.A. Express album from the mid-70's (the one that includes Joni's "guest" vocal--I've forgotten the title) on vinyl, but I haven't heard it in years. Which reminds me--she also does a gorgeous duet with Joan Baez on "Dida" (the 1975 version from 'Diamonds and Rust'). THAT particular track DOES sound a tad bit dated now--and it's awfully light and airy--but Joni still sounds amazing, utilizing her most beautiful MOA-era voice (in fact, it would make an excellent "bonus track" on a reissue of C&S someday). Still, I admire everything Joni's ever done and I imagine I always will. And while the first 6 studio discs (along with MOA) have had the greatest impact on my life--and remain my personal favorites (since THOSL I've bought them all on the days they were released)--each successive disc is a unique journey unto itself. Joni's music (along with the great Laura Nyro's) was always completely original and unlike anything else in popular music. They were BOTH phenomenal, and for that I'm eternally grateful! XXXOOO, Billy P.S. By the way, Mark--just wanted to let you know how much I LOVE the many beautiful Joni wallpapers you've designed for us here. Great work, Matey! ==================================== Mark (mark-leon@iinet.net.au) wrote (late last week): >>>Billy, you got down my feelings about MOA precisely. I love S&L very much. Joni's enthusiasm and a killer line up of musicians that inspired me to delve more deeply into jazz is a landmark album but, MOA should go to the top of the list of underrated Joni albums.<<< >>>I don't believe Tom Scott's music is in the least dated. For me, it stands up well today and is the kind of well crafted music I look for in bands now. Scott was innovative and was the perfect backing for Joni. The interplay there was special. It was Joni's early foray into jazz and it gave her an opportunity to be a bit experimental. The LA Express shifted easily between jazz, rock and blues. Listen to the flip side - Tom Scott's, "Love Poem" with Joni doing some very subtle vocals.<<< >>>The mid 70s was my favourite Joni period. I feel that she was at her height as far as her enthusiasm for music and her musical curiosity. She was at the cross roads of her taste for jazz yet, still revered a good rock song. Her lyrics were even varied enough to touch the many with personal experience of her battles in love and her urge to warn the world of impending social disasters.< << >>>Joni will always make me sit up and take notice but, it was this period that took hold of me first and stick around for the long haul.<<< >>>Her voice was strong enough then to take on her most challenging vocal arrangements. I strongly recommend listening to Dave Blackburn's remaster or the HDCD version of MOA to really experience the clarity of Joni's voice.<<< My 2". NP Blue (MOA) - Joni= ========================================== I (wtking59@cs.com) previously wrote: >>>NO way, Bob--I completely disagree.<<< >>>'Miles of Aisles' is, well, MILES beyond what you've stated (see below). Her swooping, soaring vocals were never more gorgeous than they are here. And--most noteworthy--the majority of classics from 'Blue' ("A Case of You," "The Last Time I Saw Richard," "All I Want" and "Blue") completely transcend their original versions (the sole exception being "Carey").<<< >>>And unlike the completely unsuitable, often bombastic accompaniment on 'Shadows and Light' (courtesy of Pat and Jaco's over-the-top guitar and bass virtuosity, which--on S&L--were nearly the instrumental equivalent of hearing Whitney's and/or Mariah's often histrionic approach to singing), on 'Miles of Aisles' the focus is squarely on Joni and her uniquely profound "earlier" compositions (and the songs she'll always be best remembered--and most acclaimed--for), as opposed to the post-'74 stuff. In short, MOA is mostly "unfettered and alive" so-to-speak, compared to the flashier, more desperate sounding S&L.<<< >>>So, no question about it--'Miles of Aisles' showcases Joni's artistic (not to mention, performing) brilliance at it's absolute--and most appropriate--zenith.<<< >>>Promptly thereafter, she was sadly replaced with a "pod-person" (LOL) ...straight outta 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers.'<<< XXXOOO, Billy ... on a roll today ;-) ====================================== The Mullerman (scjoniguy@yahoo.com) wrote: >>>It's ('Miles of Aisles') very dated. The sound of the band has not held up very well over time. And almost every one of the songs are better in their studio incarnations, "Rainy Night House" being the one big exception. And in that case, the studio version is pretty damn excellent as well.<<< Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:17:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Miles Beyond Wtking59@cs.com wrote: >>>>>I admire--and can even enjoy--S&L myself, but no amount of instrumental virtuosity and "gymnastics" can completely compensate for true artistic (in this case, musical) brilliance. After all, Joni's greatest work was always more about the compositions themselves--and her own performance, of course--rather than how cutting-edge her backup musicians could be. I guess my response here, Billy, is that you're making some assumptions. (Btw, do you mean to say Jaco and Wayne et al aren't true artists?) I agree with you in general regarding the compositions being important, but would disagree with the implication that pre-HOSL compositions are by any objective standard "better" or "more artisitic". I fact, for me the late 70s are her most "artistic" period. I would agree that more being complex doesn't automatically make something "better", but neither does being less complex. Certainly on an objective level the S&L band was her best, but I do understand that many would prefer Joni with session players who stick to the script or alone with her guitar. (With the notable exception of RNH, I prefer Joni solo to Joni with the band on MOA.) >>> Plus, I'm sure she was under a great deal of pressure and insecurity--mostly from herself--to top the impossibly high standards of 'Court and Spark' (which was--and remains to this day--an impossible task). Why are you sure of that? Can you find any instance of Joni even hinting that she felt that why? She seems to intentionally turned her back on the sales that "another" C&S would have surely provided (even if it wasn't nearly as good). For HER, the late 70s was a period of artistic growth in which she did what she wanted to do. That many didn't care for it is far from surprising. Popular music is, by its very nature, more popular. Again, you seem to me to assume that your reaction is "right" and that even Joni must know that. >>>>At least, that's MY take--and I'm stickin' to it. ;-) Now THAT we can agree on. ;) Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 11:19:49 -0400 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Miles Beyond/My Generation I'm 52. First heard of Joni in 1966, bought STAS on the day of its release, saw her live between STAS and Clouds. Saw her live again in 1974 and again in 1979. Her music has been meaningful to me for most of my life, then. I've written in more detail about this before here. Richard Quoting Em : > will be 48 in about 6 weeks. Yikes! 1st Joni album was STAS, which I > took with me to Europe in '78, and listened to ALOT during my couple > years over there playing art student. Used to play NITC alot. (I mean > play it myself, not just the record, lol) > Was familar with MOA from before, though. > Em > > --- Wtking59@cs.com wrote: > >> HEY, Stewart. >> >> Just turned 48 here (in March). My first Joni album was C&S (as I >> mentioned >> before, I would have been 14 or 15-years-old at the time), followed >> in quick >> succession by FTR, BLUE, LOTC, then MOA and the pre-BLUE era... >> >> ...and THEN came THOSL (!?!?!) ;-) >> >> >> XXXOOO, >> Billy >> >> >> ================================= >> Stewart (Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com) wrote: >> >> >>> I wonder what the average age group is of this discussion list. I >> am >> thinking that the majority that post are between 45 - 55. Like so >> many of you, I >> first stumbled upon Joni when she released C&S. I think that the >> reason I love >> the period from STAS - C&S as my favorite is because Joni just seemed >> to hit >> my buttons with everything she wrote. It was as personal, as self >> confessional, >> as introspective, as >> honest and as pure music as I had ever heard. But it was even more >> than that. >> Nobody had ever gotten inside my head and made me think and feel the >> way >> those songs did. The pureness and honesty of her words, the delicate >> melodies, her >> beautiful voice, it was like a drug. <<< >> >> >>>I really enjoy hearing everyone's differing opinion out here but I >> have >> this theory that many of us who are partial to C&S, FTR and Blue were >> actually >> introduced to her music in the C&S period when we were teenagers. <<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:20:46 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC 'BRANDO' on TCM Hmm, this sounds interesting. I should learn more about him as he seemed like such an interesting character. But to be honest, I've always been more of a James Dean girl myself. - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 01:25:10 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Miles Beyond Oh Billy, you're so welcome. It's due to Les that I have a chance to display my designs but, it shouldn't be just about me. I was sure there would be lots of creativity in the JM community and have been disappointed by the lack of contributions to the wallpapers. Only three people have contributed their designs so far. I always try to make my designs as complex and thought provoking as the songs themselves. There are layers. Take a close look at Shades of Scarlet Conquering for example. There are four faces in there. I didn't even realise I had the HDCD version of MOA until Dave Blackburn did his wonderful job on remastering it and found there were pieces missing. We compared notes and found the differences. I originally had the album on vinyl and vividly remember the audience members calling out stuff until Joni replies. On the regular release there is Joni's reply but not the audience comments. People are shouting out requests for songs for several seconds while Joni is tuning her guitar or something until she finally says, "Alriiiight." then goes into her comparison of musicians to painters. There is also the comment from some guy in the audience that Joni has "more class than Gomer Pyle, Richard Nixon or..." (I can't remember the other name) and Joni cracks up with the audience. Priceless spontaneity. It's odd that I like the mid 70s period of Joni's music best since I was only 10 at the time. It's because I didn't get into her music until I was about 18 when it kept me company on the road while hitchhiking around Australia and North America. When you're in the middle of the outback it can seem like you're the only person on earth but I had Joni with me all the way. Now that's how to really get Joni into your head. Miles of Aisles was the choice because it was like a greatest hits and I could hear songs from several albums but also because it was live and I needed some life out there. S&L is a remarkable album, historic even and as I said before, it influenced me to delve into jazz more. It's just a matter of taste and what resonates with you. I only wish MOA got the same respect for the extraordinary music and performance of that time. I would be in heaven if they ever released a DVD of that concert too. I didn't pay too much attention to the other musicians until now so, I don't know much about Tom Scott or the others. I only have that one track, Love Poem but Joni's vocals are barely audible. Still, it's a lovely piece. I would include that as a bonus track on, say C&S rather than Dida. Joni sounds great on that track but, it is obviously a Joan Baez song and Joni takes a back seat. Apologies to everyone but I still don't get all the fuss about Laura Nyro. Admittedly, I have only heard one song so far and it was awful. Joni never got the recognition she deserved in Australia but Laura Nyro was practically non existent here. I had never heard of her until I joined the JMDL. Never even heard her name mentioned by anyone. Maybe I will give her a listen sometime. Mark in Sydney NP Domination - Way Out West On 03/05/2007, at 12:19 AM, Wtking59@cs.com wrote: > Thank you SO MUCH, Mark--and sorry for the delay. I really appreciated > your comments and feedback. > > I admire--and can even enjoy--S&L myself, but no amount of > instrumental virtuosity and "gymnastics" can completely compensate for > true artistic (in this case, musical) brilliance. After all, Joni's > greatest work was always more about the compositions themselves--and > her own performance, of course--rather than how cutting-edge her > backup musicians could be. > > For example, Jaco Pastorius may very well indeed have been the most > innovative bass player she ever worked with, but that doesn't > necessarily mean he was the best fit for Joni. Max Bennett, on the > other hand, was more traditional--providing a perfect bed of sublime > subtlety (not to mention a gracious sense of modesty). And in doing > so, it allowed the spotlight to shine brightly--and solely--on Joni. > But I believe she was too young (about 30)--and perhaps arrogant--to > realize and/or appreciate it at the time, and they had a bit of a > falling-out, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, I'm sure she was under a great > deal of pressure and insecurity--mostly from herself--to top the > impossibly high standards of 'Court and Spark' (which was--and remains > to this day--an impossible task). Not to mention the extreme and > sudden distractions due to massive stardom, a major tour, and maybe > even drug and romantic problems--all resulting in a significant amount > of neglect for her creative muse. > > And when she discovered, for the first time in her career, that she > wouldn't be able to progress/expand/improve upon her most > profound--yet universal and popular--work ("Jericho" and "Love or > Money" were the first signs of trouble), she chose to completely > change direction rather than create a second-rate C&S. To quote Joni > herself: "nothing lasts for long..." > > At least, that's MY take--and I'm stickin' to it. ;-) > > > But yeah, Mark--I DO have the HDCD remastered edition of 'Miles of > Aisles' (of course! LOL). Just as you state, it sounds excellent. And > I don't think it sounds particularly dated either. I truly wish they'd > "expand" it one day, with perhaps some additional songs from C&S. And > I USED to own that Tom Scott & the L.A. Express album from the > mid-70's (the one that includes Joni's "guest" vocal--I've forgotten > the title) on vinyl, but I haven't heard it in years. Which reminds > me--she also does a gorgeous duet with Joan Baez on "Dida" (the 1975 > version from 'Diamonds and Rust'). THAT particular track DOES sound a > tad bit dated now--and it's awfully light and airy--but Joni still > sounds amazing, utilizing her most beautiful MOA-era voice (in fact, > it would make an excellent "bonus track" on a reissue of C&S someday). > > Still, I admire everything Joni's ever done and I imagine I always > will. And while the first 6 studio discs (along with MOA) have had the > greatest impact on my life--and remain my personal favorites (since > THOSL I've bought them all on the days they were released)--each > successive disc is a unique journey unto itself. Joni's music (along > with the great Laura Nyro's) was always completely original and unlike > anything else in popular music. > > They were BOTH phenomenal, and for that I'm eternally grateful! > > > XXXOOO, > Billy > > P.S. By the way, Mark--just wanted to let you know how much I LOVE > the many beautiful Joni wallpapers you've designed for us here. Great > work, Matey! > > ==================================== > Mark (mark-leon@iinet.net.au) wrote (late last week): > > >>>Billy, you got down my feelings about MOA precisely. I love S&L > very much. Joni's enthusiasm and a killer line up of musicians that > inspired me to delve more deeply into jazz is a landmark album but, > MOA should go to the top of the list of underrated Joni albums.<<< > > >>>I don't believe Tom Scott's music is in the least dated. For me, > it stands up well today and is the kind of well crafted music I look > for in bands now. Scott was innovative and was the perfect backing for > Joni. The interplay there was special. It was Joni's early foray into > jazz and it gave her an opportunity to be a bit experimental. The LA > Express shifted easily between jazz, rock and blues. Listen to the > flip side - Tom Scott's, "Love Poem" with Joni doing some very subtle > vocals.<<< > > >>>The mid 70s was my favourite Joni period. I feel that she was at > her height as far as her enthusiasm for music and her musical > curiosity. She was at the cross roads of her taste for jazz yet, still > revered a good rock song. Her lyrics were even varied enough to touch > the many with personal experience of her battles in love and her urge > to warn the world of impending social disasters.<<< > > >>>Joni will always make me sit up and take notice but, it was this > period that took hold of me first and stick around for the long > haul.<<< > > >>>Her voice was strong enough then to take on her most challenging > vocal arrangements. I strongly recommend listening to Dave Blackburn's > remaster or the HDCD version of MOA to really experience the clarity > of Joni's voice.<<< > > My 2". > > NP Blue (MOA) - Joni= > > > ========================================== > I (wtking59@cs.com) previously wrote: > > > >>>NO way, Bob--I completely disagree.<<< > > >>>'Miles of Aisles' is, well, MILES beyond what you've stated (see > below). Her swooping, soaring vocals were never more gorgeous than > they are here. And--most noteworthy--the majority of classics from > 'Blue' ("A Case of You," "The Last Time I Saw Richard," "All I Want" > and "Blue") completely transcend their original versions (the sole > exception being "Carey").<<< > > >>>And unlike the completely unsuitable, often bombastic > accompaniment on 'Shadows and Light' (courtesy of Pat and Jaco's > over-the-top guitar and bass virtuosity, which--on S&L--were nearly > the instrumental equivalent of hearing Whitney's and/or Mariah's often > histrionic approach to singing), on 'Miles of Aisles' the focus is > squarely on Joni and her uniquely profound "earlier" compositions (and > the songs she'll always be best remembered--and most acclaimed--for), > as opposed to the post-'74 stuff. In short, MOA is mostly "unfettered > and alive" so-to-speak, compared to the flashier, more desperate > sounding S&L.<<< > > >>>So, no question about it--'Miles of Aisles' showcases Joni's > artistic (not to mention, performing) brilliance at it's absolute--and > most appropriate--zenith.<<< > > >>>Promptly thereafter, she was sadly replaced with a "pod-person" > (LOL) ...straight outta 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers.'<<< > > > XXXOOO, > Billy ... on a roll today ;-) > > > ====================================== > The Mullerman (scjoniguy@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > >>>It's ('Miles of Aisles') very dated. The sound of the band has not > held up very well over time. And almost every one of the songs are > better in their studio incarnations, "Rainy Night House" being the one > big exception. And in that case, the studio version is pretty damn > excellent as well.<<< > > Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #179 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------