From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #170 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 26 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 170 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Testimony (njc) [] Re: Tribute (imho) ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] Backstabbing..? No my mistake! [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Backstabbing..? No my mistake! [Catherine McKay ] Tribute [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tribute [Catherine McKay ] Re: Tribute [Jerry Notaro ] NJC Sound Alikes [Wtking59@cs.com] Borders Rewards Members & Joni Tribute CD [est86mlm@ameritech.net] NJC Spreading the "Les" ;-) [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Hiroshima ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Testimony (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Testimony (njc) ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Hiroshima ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE : Re: Tribute (imho) [Joseph Palis ] tribute [SMC1254@aol.com] Re: Testimony (njc) [] SV: Hiroshima ["Marion Leffler" ] RE: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Testimony (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Hiroshima - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Testimony (njc) [] Miles Beyond [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: NJC Spreading the "Les" ;-) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Backstabbing..? No my mistake! [missblux@googlemail.com] RE: Hiroshima ["Rob Argento" ] Re: Testimony (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: SV: Hiroshima NJC [Michael Flaherty ] RE: Hiroshima NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: RE: DJRD soon to come [AMARY559@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:52:51 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) Why not read Jessica Lynch's actual testimony at the hearing? Here it is: http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070424110022.pdf I have followed a lot of these stories all along in real time. Who was it that maybe embelished the tales? The media, not always the military. Come on, you know that is true. It made good copy. The truth is somewhere in between. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:43:21 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Tribute (imho) He has a beautiful version of 'Cucurucucu Paloma' (might actually just be called 'Paloma') which was featured in a film about two gay chinese travellers in South America. The sequence where the song is used is one fo the most beautiful committed to celluloid. It think it's called 'Together' or 'Happy Together'. Wong Kar Wai? Maybe? The tribute is astounding. I'd kinda hoped that Annie Lennox's version would be different to the b-side of No More I Love You's mainly cuz of the arrangements but hey, it's different to anything else on there... no reverential guitars, she just takes it and runs... Jamie On 26/04/07, Randy Remote wrote: > From: "Brian Gross" > > 3. Caetano Veloso (unknown to me) - The vision that popped into my head > > was the > > film Borat. This version of Dreamland would have worked perfectly there. > > He's one of the most revered songwriter/singers in Brazil, > with an international following. He's credited as one of the > originators of the Tropicalia movement in the sixties, that > blended psychedelia, bossa nova, and Brazilian rhythms. > When Brazil's government went fascist, he took refuge > in England briefly, then was jailed in Brazil for his political > views. (Luckily, the government changed for the better). > I had the chance to see him a few years ago in San > Francisco, and it was a wonderful experience. Lovely > voices in the audience sang along in Portugese (a language > I don't understand) like I'd never heard before-harmonies > and all- > I can't quite get my head around the Borat idea-although > rhythmic, the soundtrack to that movie sounds very > different to me from the Brazilian sound (then again, I > haven't heard Veloso's "Dreamland" yet). > RR > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:28:59 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Backstabbing..? No my mistake! Hey, I told Gus off yesterday for backstabbing our goddess.... not realizing that he was joking. Uhm. Apologies all around, I guess I was having a humourless day. At least it gives me something to laugh about today! Sorry Gus! Bn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:13:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Backstabbing..? No my mistake! I thought you both were joking - it just goes to show you... - --- missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > Hey, > > I told Gus off yesterday for backstabbing our > goddess.... not > realizing that he was joking. Uhm. Apologies all > around, I guess I > was having a humourless day. At least it gives me > something to laugh > about today! > > Sorry Gus! > > Bn > Catherine Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:35:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) I9m not relying on the media to protect my life. I don9t pay the media9s salary with my tax money. And it was the military who ORDERED Tillman9s fellow Army Rangers to lie about the incident. Let9s not cloud the issue. The media reported what the military told them. And yes, I9ve always blamed the media for believing Pentagon propaganda. Jerry > Why not read Jessica Lynch's actual testimony at the hearing? Here it is: > > http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070424110022.pdf > > I have followed a lot of these stories all along in real time. Who was it > that maybe embelished the tales? The media, not always the military. Come > one, you know that is true. It made good copy. The truth is somewhere in > between. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:33:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Tribute WMNF still raving and raving about the Tribute cd today and especially liking Sarah and Annie. Did anyone else see Annie last night on Idol Gives Back? An honest and revealing Bridge Over Troubled Water. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Tribute - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Did anyone else see Annie > last night on Idol Gives > Back? An honest and revealing Bridge Over Troubled > Water. > > Jerry > Just to show you how we all interpret things differently, I wasn't that impressed with it. I love Annie Lennox but it sounded to me as if either she has lost a lot of her vocal ability, or maybe the sound on the vocals wasn't turned up enough - maybe the over-the-topness of a lot of the idol-type singers deafens some of us to subtlety - or maybe I should've turned the TV up. I'm still trying to figure out how they made it look as if Elvis were really on stage with Celine Dion and if the audience in the venue could "see" him. It was very 3D in any case. Maybe people never really did land on the moon... Catherine Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:55:45 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Tribute I said honest and revealing. She let her 50 year old voice onstage with no reverb, trills, backup dancers, orchestra, or flames leaping from an LCD screen. That is what impressed me. Of course her voice isn't what it was 25 years ago. Integrity on the stage is rare nowadays. Jerry > --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> Did anyone else see Annie >> last night on Idol Gives >> Back? An honest and revealing Bridge Over Troubled >> Water. >> >> Jerry >> > > Just to show you how we all interpret things > differently, I wasn't that impressed with it. I love > Annie Lennox but it sounded to me as if either she has > lost a lot of her vocal ability, or maybe the sound on > the vocals wasn't turned up enough - maybe the > over-the-topness of a lot of the idol-type singers > deafens some of us to subtlety - or maybe I should've > turned the TV up. > > I'm still trying to figure out how they made it look > as if Elvis were really on stage with Celine Dion and > if the audience in the venue could "see" him. It was > very 3D in any case. > > Maybe people never really did land on the moon... > > Catherine > Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:10:25 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: NJC Sound Alikes While we're on the subject of "sound alikes" (i.e., the new Dylan track sounding like "Red Sails In the Sunset"): every time I hear the theme to 'Big Valley'--the old western TV series w/Barbara Stanwyck (currently airing on the Encore channel)--I think the melody sounds exactly like Joan Armatrading's "I'm Lucky." ;-) XXXOOO, Billy ==================================== Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >>>NP: Joan Armatrading, "I'm Lucky"<<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:25:34 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Borders Rewards Members & Joni Tribute CD FYI: Check your email for your Borders email. Under "Shortlist Index Click to View" Click on Joni Mitchell or scroll down to her picture. Click on Borders Rewards Coupon $12.99 (List Price $18.99) this will take you to an in-store coupon you can print. BORDERS REWARDS EXCLUSIVE OFFER VALID 4/24/07 THROUGH 4/30/07 Valid only in US Borders stores. or click here: http://www.bordersmedia.com/coup/mitchell.htm Here's an additional 20% off coupon http://www.visitborders.com/index.php?c=A&o= Laura ********************FREEBIES****************************** Get a FREE 12-song CD from Take It To The Max Tour! (Must enter sweepstakes) Go To: http://www.takeittothemaxtour.com/ Click on 'Register for Prizes' @ top left of page. Click on 'Register to Win & Get a Free 12 song CD'....lower right of page. Fill out form and make sure you check the 'Yes, send me the free Send it to the Max CD' . Free Advance Screening Passes to see Shrek the Third (Select Cities) Go To: http://www.ew.com/ew/static/freescreening/shrek3/ Free Computer Screen Cleaning Wipes http://www.edigitex.com/promo.php (FYI: I didn't leave my phone # and it took my information anyway) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:37:57 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: NJC Spreading the "Les" ;-) Spreading the "Les," Bree (LOL)? That's a whole new visual! :-D Of course, you meant to write "lies." Anyhoo...I won't even bother to argue and/or discuss this latest (of sooooooo many IMPORTANT) bit of political controversy, because I'm absolutely convinced you'd never consider my opinion valid ("geeez" is right!) to begin with. Obviously, your mind is made up. This current administration is embarrassing and downright frightening--and doesn't compare to the so-called "controversy" that swirled around Clinton (and Monica Lewinsky) during his time in office. THAT nonsense was his own personal business, and (under the circumstances) no one else--except for maybe Hillary--needed to know the first thing about it. Bottom line: George W. Bush is our worst President EVER--hands down! XXXOOO, Billy NP: "16 Words." GREAT new protest/anti-war song by the great Margo Guryan. Check out the song at: http://www.pure-mint.com/artists/c_15.html ...and (especially) the video at: http://www.pure-mint.com/video/margo.html ================================== bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>I'm just asking the question...geez...does she (Jessica Lynch) have some culpability in spreading the les.<<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Hiroshima And not a word about the U.S. occupation forces which continued the forced sexual slavery for the "comfort" of American soldiers? Jerry srobe444@aol.com wrote: > Can't really let this one go. > > Although it seems popular now to pretend the Japanese were really > interested in peace (I think Gore Vidal was urging this view in Why We > Fight) the reality is they wanted to end the war on their terms and > essentially pretend that they had never engaged in genocide, violations of > the rules of war, human experimentation, forced sexual slavery, etc. and > etc. They wanted to keep an army and navy, etc. > > Since they were not in any position to dictate terms, being defeated > militarily, as seems to be conceded, it really was a non-starter to speak > of a culturally acceptable surrender. > > Had they capitualted when unconditional surrender was demanded (nothing > vague about that) they could have spared themselves Nagasaki and > Hiroshima. > > Instead they decided to bluff Truman (talk about false and misguided > courage!) and dare him to take the mainland. > > I thank God for Harry Truman, who I believe hoped there was a way around > the A-bomb, but finally came to the reluctant conclusion there was not. > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:15:50 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH LOVE me some Patti Smith, but... ...(so far, anyway) I'm not exactly enthused w/this new set of covers. Listened twice yesterday, and once this morning. For me, "Gimme Shelter" is the absolute highlight, and a perfect fit for Patti. The Doors' "Soul Kitchen" is pretty cool, too (although not as rockin' as the cover by X), as well as her cover of The Allman Brothers' "Midnight Rider." However, the biggest disappointment is her lackluster attempt at Grace Slick's majestic anthem "White Rabbit" (Jefferson Airplane). Then again, that's a daunting choice to consider anyway. I mean, what WAS she thinking? :-o Oh, and I should mention that "coyote" Sam Shepard--and his son, Walker--contribute banjo to an acoustic take on Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Tom Verlaine (Television) and Flea (Red Hot Chili Peppers) appear on the disc as well, along with Smith's own son (Jackson) and daughter (Jesse). And I notice that she thanks Mary Weiss--formerly of The Shangri-Las (and whom I mentioned here yesterday)--in the liner notes. Hmmmm... So not bad over all, but neither is it Patti's finest hour IMO. XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Judee Sill' (1971) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:34:51 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) Jerry....while trying to go to sleep last night I kept revisiting this ...although..yes...wrong...was it such a horrible thing what the Pentagon did? It certainly wasn't a malicious or sinister act. I'm not excusing the lying..but I sort of understand it...more in the case of Tilman. >I9m not relying on the media to protect my life. I don9t pay the media9s >salary with my tax money. And it was the military who ORDERED Tillman9s >fellow Army Rangers to lie about the incident. Let9s not cloud the issue. >The media reported what the military told them. And yes, I9ve always blamed >the media for believing Pentagon propaganda. > >Jerry > > > > Why not read Jessica Lynch's actual testimony at the hearing? Here it >is: > > > > http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070424110022.pdf > > > > I have followed a lot of these stories all along in real time. Who was >it > > that maybe embelished the tales? The media, not always the military. >Come > > one, you know that is true. It made good copy. The truth is somewhere >in > > between. > > > > Kakki _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) It is horrible, Bree. They even lied to the President about it. How can we rely on his decisions to use the Military when they themselves will lie to a President cover their mistakes? Jerry Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Jerry....while trying to go to sleep last night I kept revisiting this > ...although..yes...wrong...was it such a horrible thing what the Pentagon > did? It certainly wasn't a malicious or sinister act. I'm not > excusing > the lying..but I sort of understand it...more in the case of Tilman. > > >>I9m not relying on the media to protect my life. I don9t pay the media9s >>salary with my tax money. And it was the military who ORDERED Tillman9s >>fellow Army Rangers to lie about the incident. Let9s not cloud the issue. >>The media reported what the military told them. And yes, I9ve always >> blamed >>the media for believing Pentagon propaganda. >> >>Jerry >> >> >> > Why not read Jessica Lynch's actual testimony at the hearing? Here it >>is: >> > >> > http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070424110022.pdf >> > >> > I have followed a lot of these stories all along in real time. Who >> was >>it >> > that maybe embelished the tales? The media, not always the military. >>Come >> > one, you know that is true. It made good copy. The truth is >> somewhere >>in >> > between. >> > >> > Kakki > > _________________________________________________________________ > Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today. > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:21:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH I love Patti as well, but the reviews I read were so mixed I'm holding off, at least for now. I have heard "Gimme Shelter" which sounded great, but I'm just not sure if it's going to be something I'll want to go back to in the long term. Bob NP: Margriet Sjoerdsma, "Help Me" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:39 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Hiroshima Jerry..you many times give a good argument...and a lot of good material for me to chew... but this is one of the lamest statements you have ever made on the JMDL. Wow..talk about deflecting from the salient points and undeniable truths that srobe has made. You being a Librarian..I don't know what all your job duties are in a day..but if your particular job is ordering books..I would encourage you to order...AND READ....the last book...the brilliant..(a word way over-used today because it cheapens it when using it in a description of someone who truly is)........ Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote.."Making War To Keep Peace". I don't particularly like Donald Trump..he sort of bugs me... but when I heard him yesterday... when referring to Rosie O'Donnell ...."Sometimes you have to hit a bully right between the eyes" ...I thought..yes...there is some truth in that..and one could apply that from a individual to a nation...Japan was once such a bully. Once a foe ..now a friend... there is a lesson in this. Bree >And not a word about the U.S. occupation forces which continued the forced >sexual slavery for the "comfort" of American soldiers? > >Jerry > >srobe444@aol.com wrote: > > Can't really let this one go. > > > > Although it seems popular now to pretend the Japanese were really > > interested in peace (I think Gore Vidal was urging this view in Why We > > Fight) the reality is they wanted to end the war on their terms and > > essentially pretend that they had never engaged in genocide, violations >of > > the rules of war, human experimentation, forced sexual slavery, etc. and > > etc. They wanted to keep an army and navy, etc. > > > > Since they were not in any position to dictate terms, being defeated > > militarily, as seems to be conceded, it really was a non-starter to >speak > > of a culturally acceptable surrender. > > > > Had they capitualted when unconditional surrender was demanded (nothing > > vague about that) they could have spared themselves Nagasaki and > > Hiroshima. > > > > Instead they decided to bluff Truman (talk about false and misguided > > courage!) and dare him to take the mainland. > > > > I thank God for Harry Truman, who I believe hoped there was a way around > > the A-bomb, but finally came to the reluctant conclusion there was not. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > > from AOL at AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:25:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: Tribute (imho) I am excited about this Tribute CD based on some of the favorable responses from many of you. I think part of the interest and the excitement spring from the specific artist/s covering a Joni song. Being one of the few who haven't heard of Bjork's version of The Boho Dance all I can say is that I am wild with anticipation. And even those versions I already heard of like James Taylor's River and Sarah McLachlan's Blue I am still curious how segues and transitions from one song to the other flow and cohere. Randy mentioned Caetano Veloso and I agree that more than a singer, he is also one of the prefects of the so-called Tropicalia or Tropicalismo movement that swept not just Brazil but much of Latin America in the late-50s early-60s. Along with Chico Buarque, Maria Bethania and Tom Ze, Veloso has this voice that I heard some people label as unschooled and untrained. Without resorting to reductionism, I took 'untrained/unschooled' to mean as being not classically trained. I like my classically trained singers alright but give me 'untrained' anytime. Caetano Veloso's voice is certainly an acquired habit that I had the pleasure of acquiring. Much like Astrud Gilberto, Nara Leao, Gal Costa, Elis Regina, Tom Ze, etc., there is a plaintiveness to it that works well in the context of the bossa beat. Maybe because I am socialized to associate this summer-in-Ibiza type of music with cool and tropical conditions, I just respond to it, to (mis)use Neruda, without knowing why where when what. Jamie, the song that you mentioned is called Cucurucucu Paloma just like you said. I love this song very much especially when sung ultra-slow just like what Caetano did in his album called Fina Estampa en Vivo in 1995-96. And yes it was used in Kar Wai Wong's Happy Together. I kinda liked Annie Lennox's version of Bridge Over Troubled Water last night in AI but the exquisite bloom in her voice seems to be slowly disappearing. But more than anything in the Tribute album, the one piece I'd like to hear is pianist Brad Mehldau's Don't Interrupt the Sorrow. Obviously schooled in the impressionistic style of pianism, he evokes Bill Evans, Ahmad Jamal and Fred Hersch and still possesses a highly individual sound or voice. His album Places places me in spaces of ecstasy when I hear it. Somehow I see Places as a musical parallel to Joni's hejira via Hejira where the loneliness of travel, the ennui, the angst informs much of the music that was incorporated in the album. A musical bildungsroman if you please. Joseph (back) in Chapel Hill np: Les Georges Leningrad - "Didi Extra" Jamie's Box of Paints a icrit : He has a beautiful version of 'Cucurucucu Paloma' (might actually just be called 'Paloma') which was featured in a film about two gay chinese travellers in South America. The sequence where the song is used is one fo the most beautiful committed to celluloid. It think it's called 'Together' or 'Happy Together'. Wong Kar Wai? Maybe? The tribute is astounding. I'd kinda hoped that Annie Lennox's version would be different to the b-side of No More I Love You's mainly cuz of the arrangements but hey, it's different to anything else on there... no reverential guitars, she just takes it and runs... Jamie On 26/04/07, Randy Remote wrote: > From: "Brian Gross" > > 3. Caetano Veloso (unknown to me) - The vision that popped into my head > > was the > > film Borat. This version of Dreamland would have worked perfectly there. > > He's one of the most revered songwriter/singers in Brazil, > with an international following. He's credited as one of the > originators of the Tropicalia movement in the sixties, that > blended psychedelia, bossa nova, and Brazilian rhythms. > When Brazil's government went fascist, he took refuge > in England briefly, then was jailed in Brazil for his political > views. (Luckily, the government changed for the better). > I had the chance to see him a few years ago in San > Francisco, and it was a wonderful experience. Lovely > voices in the audience sang along in Portugese (a language > I don't understand) like I'd never heard before-harmonies > and all- > I can't quite get my head around the Borat idea-although > rhythmic, the soundtrack to that movie sounds very > different to me from the Brazilian sound (then again, I > haven't heard Veloso's "Dreamland" yet). > RR > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:28:29 EDT From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: tribute My favorite is Bjork. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:29:30 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) Re: Testimony (njc)I'm not trying to cloud the issue and was responding to the comments about Jessica Lynch not Tilman. She was also discussed as testifying at the hearing and I thought her actual testomony should be read. In her case I definitely thought it was the media that made her into what she now claims is a mythical hero. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:47:52 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Hiroshima Jerry, Bree, but most of all srobe444, forgive me for saying this: as important as this discussion maybe I seriously question if it belongs on this list. Being a professional historian myself I could comment but I won't. I'm on this list to discuss all things Joni and very little else...Now, you might argue that the war between Japan and the US is remotely relevant to this list since Joni advocates peace - but really, that's a little far fetched. Sticking my neck out, probably, nevertheless, Peace! Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bree Mcdonough Skickat: den 26 april 2007 19:26 Till: notaro@stpt.usf.edu; srobe444@aol.com Kopia: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: Hiroshima Jerry..you many times give a good argument...and a lot of good material for me to chew... but this is one of the lamest statements you have ever made on the JMDL. Wow..talk about deflecting from the salient points and undeniable truths that srobe has made. You being a Librarian..I don't know what all your job duties are in a day..but if your particular job is ordering books..I would encourage you to order...AND READ....the last book...the brilliant..(a word way over-used today because it cheapens it when using it in a description of someone who truly is)........ Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote.."Making War To Keep Peace". I don't particularly like Donald Trump..he sort of bugs me... but when I heard him yesterday... when referring to Rosie O'Donnell ...."Sometimes you have to hit a bully right between the eyes" ...I thought..yes...there is some truth in that..and one could apply that from a individual to a nation...Japan was once such a bully. Once a foe ..now a friend... there is a lesson in this. Bree >And not a word about the U.S. occupation forces which continued the forced >sexual slavery for the "comfort" of American soldiers? > >Jerry > >srobe444@aol.com wrote: > > Can't really let this one go. > > > > Although it seems popular now to pretend the Japanese were really > > interested in peace (I think Gore Vidal was urging this view in Why We > > Fight) the reality is they wanted to end the war on their terms and > > essentially pretend that they had never engaged in genocide, violations >of > > the rules of war, human experimentation, forced sexual slavery, etc. and > > etc. They wanted to keep an army and navy, etc. > > > > Since they were not in any position to dictate terms, being defeated > > militarily, as seems to be conceded, it really was a non-starter to >speak > > of a culturally acceptable surrender. > > > > Had they capitualted when unconditional surrender was demanded (nothing > > vague about that) they could have spared themselves Nagasaki and > > Hiroshima. > > > > Instead they decided to bluff Truman (talk about false and misguided > > courage!) and dare him to take the mainland. > > > > I thank God for Harry Truman, who I believe hoped there was a way around > > the A-bomb, but finally came to the reluctant conclusion there was not. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > > from AOL at AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp= 33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863& encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:51:06 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH I like it. Even better is the live show some enterprising taper put up on DIME: Patti Smith Band "Midnite Ride in Manhattan" The Hiro Ballroom, NYC, NY Wed, Apr 18, 2007 Lineage: AKG Bluelines -> Tascam H2P2 (16-bit) -> wav -> CDWave -> Flac(lvl 8) -> You Mastering: TaperJon Post-production: gOrdO55 & TaperJon Cover Art: G. the Cock Photos: Ariel, Karen Shorter and TaperJon I also listened to the Joni Tribute, with the surprising insight that leading off the collection and in the collection's context, I don't hate Sufjan's "Free Man" any more. LOVE Cassandra Wilson. Also think Elvis is bombastic and lugubrious on "Edith." I don't think that highy of the instrumental version of "Don't Interrupt," a song mostly interesting for its lyrics and not that musically interesting. But I don't think I'll be listening to the Joni Tribute as much as the Patti Smith, which, while maybe not an artistic masterpiece, is a lot of fun. Maybe mostly fun for fogies like me. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Wtking59@cs.com Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:16 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC 'twelve' by Patti SMITH LOVE me some Patti Smith, but... ...(so far, anyway) I'm not exactly enthused w/this new set of covers. Listened twice yesterday, and once this morning. For me, "Gimme Shelter" is the absolute highlight, and a perfect fit for Patti. The Doors' "Soul Kitchen" is pretty cool, too (although not as rockin' as the cover by X), as well as her cover of The Allman Brothers' "Midnight Rider." However, the biggest disappointment is her lackluster attempt at Grace Slick's majestic anthem "White Rabbit" (Jefferson Airplane). Then again, that's a daunting choice to consider anyway. I mean, what WAS she thinking? :-o Oh, and I should mention that "coyote" Sam Shepard--and his son, Walker--contribute banjo to an acoustic take on Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Tom Verlaine (Television) and Flea (Red Hot Chili Peppers) appear on the disc as well, along with Smith's own son (Jackson) and daughter (Jesse). And I notice that she thanks Mary Weiss--formerly of The Shangri-Las (and whom I mentioned here yesterday)--in the liner notes. Hmmmm... So not bad over all, but neither is it Patti's finest hour IMO. XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Judee Sill' (1971) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:56:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) > Re: Testimony (njc)I'm not trying to cloud the issue and was responding to the > comments about Jessica Lynch not Tilman. She was also discussed as testifying > at the hearing and I thought her actual testomony should be read. In her case > I definitely thought it was the media that made her into what she now claims > is a mythical hero. From false information provided to the media by the Pentagon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:59:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Hiroshima - NJC What I was giving was a comment, not an argument. Is it appropriate to say horrible the Japanese were for sexual slavery and then not comment that the U.S. Occupational forces sanctioned the very same behavior for their own soldiers? As always, all I am saying is there are no men in white horses and black horses, Bree. Jerry > Jerry..you many times give a good argument...and a lot of good material for > me to chew... but this is one of the lamest statements you have ever made on > the JMDL. Wow..talk about deflecting from the salient points and > undeniable truths that srobe has made. > > You being a Librarian..I don't know what all your job duties are in a > day..but if your particular job is ordering books..I would encourage you to > order...AND READ....the last book...the brilliant..(a word way over-used > today because it cheapens it when using it in a description of someone who > truly is)........ Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote.."Making War To Keep Peace". > > I don't particularly like Donald Trump..he sort of bugs me... but when I > heard him yesterday... when referring to Rosie O'Donnell ...."Sometimes you > have to hit a bully right between the eyes" ...I thought..yes...there is > some truth in that..and one could apply that from a individual to a > nation...Japan was once such a bully. Once a foe ..now a friend... there > is a lesson in this. > > Bree > >> And not a word about the U.S. occupation forces which continued the forced >> sexual slavery for the "comfort" of American soldiers? >> >> Jerry >> >> srobe444@aol.com wrote: >>> Can't really let this one go. >>> >>> Although it seems popular now to pretend the Japanese were really >>> interested in peace (I think Gore Vidal was urging this view in Why We >>> Fight) the reality is they wanted to end the war on their terms and >>> essentially pretend that they had never engaged in genocide, violations >> of >>> the rules of war, human experimentation, forced sexual slavery, etc. and >>> etc. They wanted to keep an army and navy, etc. >>> >>> Since they were not in any position to dictate terms, being defeated >>> militarily, as seems to be conceded, it really was a non-starter to >> speak >>> of a culturally acceptable surrender. >>> >>> Had they capitualted when unconditional surrender was demanded (nothing >>> vague about that) they could have spared themselves Nagasaki and >>> Hiroshima. >>> >>> Instead they decided to bluff Truman (talk about false and misguided >>> courage!) and dare him to take the mainland. >>> >>> I thank God for Harry Truman, who I believe hoped there was a way around >>> the A-bomb, but finally came to the reluctant conclusion there was not. >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >>> from AOL at AOL.com. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. > http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33 > .832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encT > ype=1&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:03:30 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) Well now the media, e.g., the New York Times article posted here, makes many claims about what she and others have said about the incident. Compare that article to her actual testimony and it is clear that other forms of hype and clouding the issue continue. Kakki > From false information provided to the media by the >Pentagon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:32:10 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Miles Beyond NO way, Bob--I completely disagree. 'Miles of Aisles' is, well, MILES beyond what you've stated (see below). Her swooping, soaring vocals were never more gorgeous than they are here. And--most noteworthy--the majority of classics from 'Blue' ("A Case of You," "The Last Time I Saw Richard," "All I Want" and "Blue") completely transcend their original versions (the sole exception being "Carey"). And unlike the completely unsuitable, often bombastic accompaniment on 'Shadows and Light' (courtesy of Pat and Jaco's over-the-top guitar and bass virtuosity, which--on S&L--were nearly the instrumental equivalent of hearing Whitney's and/or Mariah's often histrionic approach to singing), on 'Miles of Aisles' the focus is squarely on Joni and her uniquely profound "earlier" compositions (and the songs she'll always be best remembered--and most acclaimed--for), as opposed to the post-'74 stuff. In short, MOA is mostly "unfettered and alive" so-to-speak, compared to the flashier, more desperate sounding S&L. So, no question about it--'Miles of Aisles' showcases Joni's artistic (not to mention, performing) brilliance at it's absolute--and most appropriate--zenith. Promptly thereafter, she was sadly replaced with a "pod person" (LOL) ...straight outta 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers.' XXXOOO, Billy ... on a roll today ;-) ====================================== The Mullerman (scjoniguy@yahoo.com) wrote: >>>It's ('Miles of Aisles') very dated. The sound of the band has not held up very well over time. And almost every one of the songs are better in their studio incarnations, "Rainy Night House" being the one big exception. And in that case, the studio version is pretty damn excellent as well. Bob<<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:24:53 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Spreading the "Les" ;-) Billy wrote : > NP: "16 Words." GREAT new protest/anti-war song by the great Margo Guryan. > Check out the song at: http://www.pure-mint.com/artists/c_15.html > Don't know if anyone has seen this anti-war song on youtube, but I think it's a hoot! Jimmy http://youtube.com/watch?v=6cAChVVVZaM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:44:08 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Backstabbing..? No my mistake! Nope Gus completely fooled me! Am glad I didn't go into details to explain why I thought this was so very rude....! Bn On 4/26/07, Catherine McKay wrote: > I thought you both were joking - it just goes to show > you... > > --- missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I told Gus off yesterday for backstabbing our > > goddess.... not > > realizing that he was joking. Uhm. Apologies all > > around, I guess I > > was having a humourless day. At least it gives me > > something to laugh > > about today! > > > > Sorry Gus! > > > > Bn > > > > > Catherine > Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:05:51 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: Hiroshima Well, it IS a community - and as such has many very facets, the common link being an interest in Joni's music, poetry and art.(as well as personal gossip about JM and friends) As long as the subject line contains "NJC" I don't see much harm in people discussing anything and everything. Just don't read the "NJC"s if your interest in the groups discussions go no further. The "necessity" of the deaths of over a quarter of a million people seems to me to be a valid reason to pause and think a bit without our getting too upset and divided. After all most of us were either not there or too young to have a say in the matter. We DO (possibly) have a say in the future. /Robban - -----Original Message----- From: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Marion Leffler Sent: den 26 april 2007 13:48 To: 'Bree Mcdonough'; notaro@stpt.usf.edu; srobe444@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: SV: Hiroshima Jerry, Bree, but most of all srobe444, forgive me for saying this: as important as this discussion maybe I seriously question if it belongs on this list. Being a professional historian myself I could comment but I won't. I'm on this list to discuss all things Joni and very little else...Now, you might argue that the war between Japan and the US is remotely relevant to this list since Joni advocates peace - but really, that's a little far fetched. Sticking my neck out, probably, nevertheless, Peace! Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bree Mcdonough Skickat: den 26 april 2007 19:26 Till: notaro@stpt.usf.edu; srobe444@aol.com Kopia: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: Hiroshima Jerry..you many times give a good argument...and a lot of good material for me to chew... but this is one of the lamest statements you have ever made on the JMDL. Wow..talk about deflecting from the salient points and undeniable truths that srobe has made. You being a Librarian..I don't know what all your job duties are in a day..but if your particular job is ordering books..I would encourage you to order...AND READ....the last book...the brilliant..(a word way over-used today because it cheapens it when using it in a description of someone who truly is)........ Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote.."Making War To Keep Peace". I don't particularly like Donald Trump..he sort of bugs me... but when I heard him yesterday... when referring to Rosie O'Donnell ...."Sometimes you have to hit a bully right between the eyes" ...I thought..yes...there is some truth in that..and one could apply that from a individual to a nation...Japan was once such a bully. Once a foe ..now a friend... there is a lesson in this. Bree >And not a word about the U.S. occupation forces which continued the >forced sexual slavery for the "comfort" of American soldiers? > >Jerry > >srobe444@aol.com wrote: > > Can't really let this one go. > > > > Although it seems popular now to pretend the Japanese were really > > interested in peace (I think Gore Vidal was urging this view in Why > > We > > Fight) the reality is they wanted to end the war on their terms and > > essentially pretend that they had never engaged in genocide, > > violations >of > > the rules of war, human experimentation, forced sexual slavery, etc. > > and etc. They wanted to keep an army and navy, etc. > > > > Since they were not in any position to dictate terms, being defeated > > militarily, as seems to be conceded, it really was a non-starter to >speak > > of a culturally acceptable surrender. > > > > Had they capitualted when unconditional surrender was demanded > > (nothing vague about that) they could have spared themselves > > Nagasaki and Hiroshima. > > > > Instead they decided to bluff Truman (talk about false and misguided > > courage!) and dare him to take the mainland. > > > > I thank God for Harry Truman, who I believe hoped there was a way > > around the A-bomb, but finally came to the reluctant conclusion there was not. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > ____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about > > what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp= 33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863& encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:25:35 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Testimony (njc) And again, my concern as a citizen is not whether an individual lied, whether the media lied, but rather whether it was the policy of a United States government institution to lie. And that is also the concern of the United States Senate. > Well now the media, e.g., the New York Times article posted here, makes many > claims about what she and others have said about the incident. Compare that > article to her actual testimony and it is clear that other forms of hype and > clouding the issue continue. > > Kakki > >> From false information provided to the media by the >Pentagon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: SV: Hiroshima NJC Marion Leffler wrote: >>>>Jerry, Bree, but most of all srobe444, forgive me for saying this: as important as this discussion maybe I seriously question if it belongs on this list. Being a professional historian myself I could comment but I won't. I'm on this list to discuss all things Joni and very little else... If everyone would please add NJC we should be fine. Michael Flaherty (also a "Joni only" guy.) - --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Hiroshima NJC - --- Rob Argento wrote: > Well, it IS a community - and as such has many very > facets, the common link > being an interest in Joni's music, poetry and > art.(as well as personal > gossip about JM and friends) As long as the subject > line contains "NJC" I > don't see much harm in people discussing anything > and everything. Just > don't read the "NJC"s if your interest in the groups > discussions go no > further. Rob, your post didn't have njc in the subject line. (I added it in my reply.) Some of us are interested in more than just Joni talk, so we don't want to be on the Joni-only e-mails. I'm rarely interested in anything political, since there doesn't seem much point (and it's always American politics anyway - the rest of us usually don't discuss politics). Someone once suggested that people indicate in subject line that their post was political, but that doesn't really work, since often a post starts out with one thing, then digresses to something else. Marion, if you just want the Joni stuff, you could unsub from the "everything" posts and sub to the only-Joni and that might help (as long as people remember to include njc in the subject line when there is no Joni content.) I wouldn't want to tell people what they can/can't talk about, (Oh, maybe I would want to, but why would anyone listen?) so, as long as the subject line makes it clear what the issue is, you can always sort your posts by subject and delete the ones that are on some topic you're not interested in. That does get rid of a lot of the stuff you don't want to read. Some of us respond to posts without paying a lot of attention to the subject line though. For what it's worth, Joni herself said, quoting Myrtle, I guess, "Hiroshima cannot be pardonned." (Can I go back and delete the njc from my subject line now? Naaaah, I think not.) Catherine Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:21:06 EDT From: AMARY559@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: DJRD soon to come In a message dated 25/04/2007 08:02:38 GMT Standard Time, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: RE: DJRD soon to come Hi I have been moving house (though still om the IOW) so there have been a couple of discussions I have missed contributing to. One of them was on the great intros. I have to agree that the start of DJRD is fabulous, mysterious, and sexy. However, DQRD also contains 3 of what I consider to be "songs I wish Joni did not write": Talk to Me - after a wonderful opening image it quickly spirals away lyrically (though the music is lively and fun) and the chicken-squawking just makes me cringe and want to shout "Joni, No!". Off-night backstreet - There are times when I can listen to it but it is such a depressing dirge that most times I skip it However, he really piece de la crapola is "Silky Veils,,,". If she had written this when for STAS I would not have minded - but for a mature Joni it is too much like bad school-girl poetry. In comparison the rest of the album is magnificent with Jericho a love song to rival "Willy" as her most perfect, the twin titans of the title track and Paprika Plains. I love Dreamland and I can even get into 10th World - although the animal noises at the end do take the edge of it. The other ones to go on the "wish Joni did not write list" (at least from the period from STAS to before WTRF) are "Fiddle and the Drum" and "Blue Motel Room". So quite a short list with 3 from DQRD! Cheers Kevin ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #170 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------