From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #117 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 17 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 117 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: new york shopping NJC [Debra ] Re: Song to a Seagull Remastered [Deb Messling ] Re: Books NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] njc, General Pace on immorality ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: buddist? -- njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: buddist? -- njc [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: buddist? feminist? ["Randy Remote" ] Bob's Digest ["P Bear" ] Re: Bob's Digest ["Cassy" ] RE: Sherelle and Kurt Elling and Bob Sheppard (Joni moments) NJC ["Kate B] The Club 47 bootleg cleaned up for ya... [Dave Blackburn ] BBC2 Documentary ["Christopher Treacy" ] Rock Hall Voting Scandal - NJC ["Cassy" ] Re: The Club 47 bootleg cleaned up for ya... ["Snatch N. Grabster" ] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20Joni=20Tours=2C=20Ltd=2E?= ["=?ISO-8859-1?Q?LESLI=] RE: buddist? -- njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: buddist? -- njc ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Subject: Re: new york shopping NJC > From: "mike pritchard" > I'm thinking of buying an I-pod when I'm in New > York later this month (given the strength > of the euro (?) against the dollar). > Any ideas about where I > should shop to get the best deal? Randy suggests: > > J&R Music World - good prices & selection. > www.jandr.com > Circuit City has sales, too. and Gerry likes: > B&H Photo Video > 420 9th Avenue > New York, N.Y. 10001 Hi Mike, Apple computers cost the same no matter where you buy them, so I'd guess that it's the same for iPods. Best place for anything Apple is an Apple Store. Newest one is on Fifth Avenue between 58th and 59th Streets, and is open 24 hours a day 7 days a week (or at least it was when it opened last Spring). It'll dazzle you. There's also a store in Soho but I don't know anything about that. B&H is good for other electronics, although I went once and never again. The salesmen are Hasidic Jews and the feeling I got was that they didn't like non-Jew female me much. If you go there, have a very clear idea of what you want because they use high pressure sales tactics. Years ago I was there was to buy a camera and the salesman was trying to sell me something I didn't want, and was getting so demeaning and rude I finally said "no thanks" and left. As I was leaving he's shouting out "I can't believe she's leaving, such a good deal, I can't believe... etc." like I'm such an idiot. I'm thinking "what an ass!" and got out of there. For a "New Yorkers are aggressive and rude" experience, that's the place. For an iPod and a "New York is big and glitzy and over the top" experience, the new Apple store is my suggestion. Other stores you may see, like Circuit City and Best Buy, sell iPods but they're chain stores that are all over the country and nothing special. J&R Music World is downtown, near City Hall and the empty World Trade Center site. It's five separate stores along a row of old buildings so it's kind of funky. When I worked downtown J&R was my favorite store. At one time it had the best cd selection. I always found whatever I was looking for there, no matter how obscure. Last time I was there they didn't have many cds in stock. The store took a serious blow on 9/11 but I think it's recovered now. It's a great place for electronics. My stereo system is from there and still going strong. I doubt if they have any discounts on any Apple products but you could check out their store online and do a price comparison that way. Circuit City, Best Buy and B&H (I think) all have websites. As you know, I'm no longer living in NYC but still have lots of New Yorker opinions! No surprise there. Have a great trip, Mike. iPod shopping sounds like fun. Maybe buy an iMac G5 while you're looking. Mine was wonky for a while, and when I finally got it to a repair shop (first time I've ever taken in a Mac for repair), they replaced the too-small Chinese capacitors installed in the Chinese factory (mistake? fraud? Apple wouldn't say). Since it was a manufacturing flaw Apple paid for the repair. Good thing since the repair charge was $985. They're paying for that repair on lots of iMacs! That restored my faith in them. Apple and their Macs are great. I think you'd get a kick out seeing their newest store. Debra Shea ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:07:38 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull Remastered This is stunning, Dave. I thought that this disc was remastered officially some years ago - why didn't it sound this good? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:17:53 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Books NJC Robertson Davies's A MIXTURE OF FRAILTIES is a book I have given as a gift to several singers. Also about music and very funny: THE LYRE OF ORPHEUS. DAVID LAHM ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:11:01 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, General Pace on immorality Smurf, almost getting started, wrote: "Sorta like some of the people who call themselves Christian who couldn't be further from the teachings of Christ when it comes to their war mongering and general lack of love for their neighbors...." "General lack of love".....sorta like General Pace? Check out this cartoon (and the last one on this page is good, too): http://blogs.courant.com/bob_englehart/ You just have to laugh, cause it's all so crazy. Bon weekend and Happy St. Patrick's Day, everyjonibody! Peace, Patti P. in CT, where snow gathers like bolts of lace but we're still ON with our big anti-war rally in Hartford tomorrow (although they cancelled the St. Patty's Day parade), the planning and organizating of which has me in Flip City and barely able to keep up with all the great posts and links NPOMTV: The local news, with Lieberman whining whining whining about giving the surge a chance to work. Yeah, come join us in Hartford tomorrow, Joe. I'll show you a surge! _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:10:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: buddist? -- njc Btw, buddism is a philosophy as opposed to a religion ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:27:37 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: buddist? -- njc Are you saying that buddism is a philosophy and Buddhism is a religion? It never occurred to me there were two different words that meant two different things but it makes a lot of sense. If that is the case I would define my spirituality as largely buddist. Victor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Kate Bennett" > Btw, buddism is a philosophy as opposed to a religion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:34:37 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: buddist? feminist? When asked about her religious views, for instance, she says: "I kind of see the beauty of the teachings of Christ you know, even though I turned Buddhist. And, of course, Jewish by injection." - -A Conversation with Joni Mitchell David Wild [Rolling Stone] May 30, 1991 http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=307 She has quoted the I Ching, the Bible, Desiderata, Zen and surely lots more in her songs and interviews, so I think it's safe to say she is not exclusively locked in to any doctrine. This interview also hit on the feminist subject: Thanks to the library elves for this stuff~~!!! Dylan made a pretty interesting comment regarding you a few years ago. Oh, I remember. He was talking about how he didn't like seeing women onstage, how he hates to see them up these whoring themselves. So he was asked, "Well, what about Joni Mitchell?" And he says something like "She's not really a woman. Joni's kind of like a man." [laughs] The thing is, I came into the business quite feminine. But nobody has had so many battles to wage as me. I had to stand up for my own artistic rights. And it's probably good for my art ultimately. I remember early in my career somebody wrote that my work was "effeminate," which I thought was pretty odd. So over the years I think I've gotten more androgynous - and maybe become an honorary male, according to Bobby. <.....> So you weren't offended? In a way he's right. Music has become burlesque over the last few years - video's done that. Every generation has to be more shocking than the last. But at a certain point you've got to reel it in because decadence ultimately isn't that hip. Our country is going down the tubes from it. It's rotten to the core. And I think women can be more than decorative. I mean, it's the same old thing actresses have been saying all along, that these are no good roles for women. Well, there are women creating their own roles, but they're creating such shallow roles I wonder why. Yet someone like Madonna can be seen as a feminist hero because she's exploiting her own sexuality rather than being exploited by some man. That's an interesting idea, but what's the difference between her and a hard hooker, you know? Who's being exploited there? She's reveling in herself too. But she can take it. I guess that's what it is. It's just being able to take it, you know. But would you agree that Madonna is the current archetype for the female performer? Well, she's a great "star." She's got that whore Madonna thing built in [laughs]. She's like a living Barbie doll but a little bit on the blue side. There's always been that type of female. There's always been a market for it, but the danger is that she thinks she's a role model. And it's a terrible role model. It's death to all things real. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:30:50 +1100 From: "P Bear" Subject: Bob's Digest Having enjoyed all messages posted by joni fans at Joni Digest - thank you Bob ! The best feature of this Digest is the liberalness - with some forums there is a cooler attitude - for me , there is disagreement to the followers of Georgie Bush's Arab butt-kicking quotient ! You know , as a fan I go back to the 1960's , about the middle there , having come from PeterPaul&Mary and Dylan and then of course Joni . Let me also mention Melanie Safka and Judy Collins and the great (MyFav) Joan Baez - who went on to become Lady Grumpy . Then I followed Joni again in the 70's , when she went into fashion ( I actually liked her fashion !) . You know , these Muso's and the Scene , and going onto the 80's , and Joni's change to Jazz or Jazz Folk . So many years and albums , and her music is still indulgent . And I would say even , that she is eccentric . And personally , I have a thing for flakey dames , and especially older ones . What we may have forgotten is Joni's knowledge not only of folk , but of traditional Folk . Did you know Joni spent many years studying the traditional instruments . And it would seem such a shame , if all that was lost . This should be told to her , because I don't know of anyone else who would consider this - a series on folk instruments and styles , and who better better than Joni herself . ( And of course we need to see the sensual Joni in this , if you know what I mean ) - the Bear - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Its simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:29:58 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Bob's Digest From: "P Bear" <<< the great (MyFav) Joan Baez - who went on to become Lady Grumpy . >>> Joan Baez is slated to tour with John Mellencamp in the fall. Warmly, Cassy NP: Jann Arden - I Would Die For You ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:59:42 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Sherelle and Kurt Elling and Bob Sheppard (Joni moments) NJC Sherelle and so are we are still laughing over this priceless observation- truly he does have a bit of that donkey's attitude in so many ways...LOL >I will especially remember Zuma your horse and how happy he was once you brushed him over! I still laugh because he took this stance and attitude like the donkey on Shrek II (I'm a stallion baby!)< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:08:30 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: The Club 47 bootleg cleaned up for ya... As requested by Mark Leon-Thorne I have gone through the Club 47 bootleg and cleaned it up as best as possible considering it's origins. Of course it's far from high fidelity but it's a lot better listen now I think. I deleted the tortuous minutes of guitar retuning but kept all dialog. Also the source of Cactus Tree was so degraded that I chose to leave it off since nothing I could do could help, but the 14 other tunes are there in what may or not be the correct order (Richard Flynn said no-one was really certain of the order anyway). So here you go: http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmYUlqVEhtUUUwTVE9PQ Cheers Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:17:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Subject: Joni and Folk (Re: Bob's Digest) - --- P Bear wrote: > ... What we > may have forgotten is Joni's knowledge not only of > folk , but of > traditional Folk . Did you know Joni spent many > years studying the > traditional instruments . Hello P Bear, If this is your first email, then welcome! I'm 4,500 messages behind (and not planning to read them all) so you may have written before but even if you have, everyone could use a hearty welcome once in a while. I'm now on dial-up instead of having my former speedy DSL connection and there literally is not enough time in a day to wait for each message to download so I'm missing a lot. So back to Joni -- where do you get the idea that she had a lot of traditional musical training? I'm curious. She's said that she had a few piano lessons and the teacher wanted her to learn the classics and Joni didn't want to, so that relationship didn't last very long. As a teenager she got a ukelele and a Pete Singer instruction book and that's how she learned to play ukelele and then guitar, and pretty quickly started using her own chords. So I don't think she's had much traditional musical training. Just enough to get her started, which seems to be her way of operating. But if you know otherwise, this is definitely the place to write all about it. > And it would seem such a > shame , if all that > was lost . This should be told to her , because I > don't know of anyone > else who would consider this - a series on folk > instruments and styles , > and who better better than Joni herself . ( And of > course we need to see > the sensual Joni in this , if you know what I mean ) It would be a shame if the knowledge of folk was lost, but Joni's not the person to keep that from happening. Just the contrary. She "improves" it (I think that's how she'd put it). Her reworking of traditional songs into Silky Veils of Ardor and Corrina Corrina are a couple of my favorites, but she considers them her own creations. I'm not sure about Corrina, but she makes no mention in the cd booklet of using traditional material for SVA. She takes and uses for her own purposes and isn't the person to preserve traditional styles of anything. One person that does respect folk traditions is Richard Thompson. For a while he was doing "1,000 Years of Popular Music" concerts, and playing in the different styles starting with the oldest. It was fascinating the way the sounds changed over the centuries. And impressive the way he could play guitar in all those different styles (but then, he IS the brilliant Richard Thompson). If you haven't heard it already, you may be interested in the live cd made during a couple of those concerts. He loves jazz, especially Django Reinhardt, but made the deliberate decision early in his career to stick on the "folk" path, and he knows ALL about it. Debra Shea NP: RT's Night Comes In ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:30:00 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: BBC2 Documentary Hey Gang, So - just so we're all clear, the 20th and 27th are Tuesdays - doesn't it say over the next two weekends? Assuming that Tuesday is right, does anyone know what time (US-EST) the stream will happen? Maybe I'm being dense, but I'll be seriously bummed if I goof and miss this somehow - stranger things have happened! Cheers, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:24:59 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Rock Hall Voting Scandal - NJC Since the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has been a topic of discussion here recently, I thought this might be of interest. Cassy http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258664,00.html Rock Hall Voting Scandal: Rock Group Actually Won According to sources knowledgeable about the mysterious ways of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation, British Invasion group The Dave Clark Five and not Grandmaster Flash finished fifth in the final voting of the nominating committee and should have been inducted on Monday night. According to sources, Rolling Stone publisher Jann Wenner, who recently appointed himself chairman of the Foundation after the death of Ahmet Ertegun, ignored the final voting and chose Grandmaster Flash over the DC5 for this year's ceremony. "Jann went back to a previous ballot instead of taking the final vote as the last word," my source insisted. "He used a technicality about the day votes were due in. In reality, The Dave Clark Five got six more votes than Grandmaster Flash. But he felt we couldn't go another year without a rap act." R.E.M., Van Halen, The Ronettes and Patti Smith were the top four vote-getters, with Grandmaster Flash finishing fifth when the votes were counted on the first date ballots were due in to the Rock Hall office. But when all the ballots were counted a few days later, the DC5 had pulled ahead. Wenner decided to ignore that and stick with the earlier tally. "We begged Jann to allow all six acts to be inducted. But he insisted that he couldn't because there wouldn't be enough time," my source said. "He wanted to have Aretha Franklin come and perform in memory of Ahmet Ertegun." The Ertegun tribute, while very nice, was deemed unnecessary by members of the main committee because the Atlantic Records co-founder will be memorialized in New York on April 17. "But Jann wanted to do his own tribute. It was insane, especially since he took over Ahmet's position on the board before Ahmet even had a memorial. Jann simply sent papers around informing everyone that he was now the chairman," my source said. The Dave Clark Five ballot tampering, however, stings the most. The group, part of the British Invasion of the '60s, should have been inducted long ago for their hits like "Glad All Over," "Bits & Pieces" and "Catch Me If You Can." Making them wait has turned out to be a huge mistake, as their fortunes have not been great. In December 2006, sax player Denis Payton succumbed to cancer at age 63. Lead singer Mike Smith has been paralyzed since 2003 after falling off a ladder at his home in Spain. In August 2005, a terrific fundraising effort for Smith at B.B. King's in New York was supposed to be the prelude to finally recognizing the group that had several memorable hits in the mid-'60s. Wenner's cruel axing of them from the show and the Hall of Fame should be painful to many who are intimately involved with the Hall, like Paul Shaffer, who runs the Hall of Fame band and produced and emceed the Smith tribute. So what happened here? My sources also say that Wenner's motivation may have sprung from a controversial speech that was delivered by new administrative head Joel Peresman to the nominating committee last winter. "He stood up there and told us that we should vote for who we thought would be most commercial, and who be best on the TV show," a source said. "It was outrageous. Some people tried to stop him and asked him to leave, but he wouldn't. He said, 'I'm not leaving.' The director is never supposed to speak to the nominating committee." Peresman came to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation last year when Wenner arbitrarily ousted the long-time chief of the group, Suzan Evans Hochberg, after two decades of loyalty. "We couldn't believe Jann stood up there last night and said Suzan was retiring. But when the seating plan went crazy the other day, Jann called and begged her to come in and help. Peresman knows nothing about the business," a source said. Peresman came to the Foundation from gigs booking shows at Madison Square Garden and with Clear Channel, the radio giant that many feel has strangled the music business with intransigent radio play policies and suggestions - actually, government investigations - of payola. In the old days, such a hire would have been considered anathema by Wenner. None of this should come as any surprise to those who have followed the roller-coaster world of the Rock Hall. According to the group's most recent tax filing, for example, they gave only $9,000 to indigent musicians from their $11 million in holdings. Even worse: Wenner sent a tax-free $10,000 to something called Jazz Casuals in San Francisco. It's really just the archives of Ralph J. Gleason, the late jazz writer who periodically wrote for Rolling Stone in its early days. It was the only donation made by the Foundation to any group last year. "Again, outrageous," a source said. "With all of Jann's money, he could have just sent a check. He didn't need to use the Foundation's money." By contrast, the Foundation gave only $53,000 to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Museum in Cleveland. Attorney Allen Grubman's law firm took another $50,000 for legal services rendered. Evans received her usual $300,000 salary. Peresman is said to be receiving even more. And then there's the matter of who has left on the nominating committee. I'm told that nearly half the group is gone, leaving 32 members. Many of the remaining members are former or current Wenner employees, like Rolling Stone's Nathan Brackett, David Fricke, Jim Henke, Joe Levy, Brian Keizer and Anthony DeCurtis. Jon Landau, Bruce Springsteen's manager and a former Rolling Stone writer, is the chairman of the committee and considered the last truly mediating influence on Wenner. There are only three actual musicians: Paul Shaffer, Steven van Zandt and Robbie Robertson. Three are female. One of them is black. There are only two other black members: journalist Toure and Reginald C. Dennis Wenner, I'm told, "weeded out everyone he didn't like." He even got rid of the veteran New York Post and Vanity Fair writer Lisa Robinson. Wenner almost bumped Claudia Perry, a Newark Star Ledger sports writer and former pop music critic. After a scuffle, she managed to hang on, which was good news. As a black woman she fulfilled two minorities on the board (Edna Gundersen and Elyssa Gardner of USA Today are the other females). "This is the opposite of what Ahmet would have wanted," a source said. "He liked a big committee that reflected lots of different tastes." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:18:28 -0500 From: "Snatch N. Grabster" Subject: Re: The Club 47 bootleg cleaned up for ya... Cleaned-up, remastered recordings are best circulated in a compressed, lossless format. Otherwise, if they circulate only in mp3, and are burned to CDs, this somewhat defeats the purpose of remastering, as mp3 is lossy and degrades the sound of the source files. The situation gets worse when someone burns a CD from the mp3s and someone else makes new mp3s from that CD, and so on... FLAC is the standard for compressed, lossless file sharing, and the preferred method of distribution for recordings like Club 47 is bit torrent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:24:33 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: NJC its a good day when Deb, Sherelle, Michael, Kate and Bob all post in the same day. it's a good day. looking forward to those I see at my first jonifest. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:46:22 -0800 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?LESLI=20A=20WATTS?=" Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20Joni=20Tours=2C=20Ltd=2E?= And i'd like to offer a topanga leg to this tour. lesli - ---------- Original Message ------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:40:19 -0800 From: To: Subject: Joni Tours, Ltd. >Patti P. suggested: > >"Someone should start a jmdl California tour business. You know how they do >the tours of Holllywood and >the homes of the stars?" > >Heh heh - don't tell anyone but we've been running the Joni tours here since >inception ;-) We have short, medium and full circle tours of the haunts and >landmarks available. Incredibly, I can count at least 25 jmdlers past and >present who have slept on my couch. (Now I have two couches but always put >people on the "jmdl" couch). The Blue bus is calling us and you are always >welcome in! > >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:53:23 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: buddist? -- njc I'm saying Buddism is not considered to be a religion- rather it is a philosophy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:56:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: buddist? -- njc LOL! I just realized I was leaving out the h in buddHism! LOL ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #117 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------