From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #63 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 063 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: racial violence (njc) [Smurf ] RE: Shades, Edith etc, and a Carry on dimension to GWTW [johnnybgoode@lin] RE: couch vs sofa NJC ["Michael O'Malley" ] Recent posts (njc) [Victor Johnson ] Re: couch vs sofa NJC ["Evelyne Dubois" ] Boxing kangaroo, a national Australian symbol (njc) [Victor Johnson ] Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" NJC [Em ] One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" [Victor Johnson ] Re: SJC Bandanas and braids njc [Em ] Re: SJC Bandanas and braids njc ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" ["ron" Subject: Re: racial violence (njc) - --- Victor wrote: << The world is too small to be surrounded by yourself. >> That's a great line, Victor. You should use it in a song. John Lennon would've! The flip side of that -- and every bit as poignant -- is, "I see something of myself in everyone, just at this moment of the world." - --Smurf . Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:15:50 +0000 From: johnnybgoode@lineone.net Subject: RE: Shades, Edith etc, and a Carry on dimension to GWTW Dear All, I have been fascinated by the discussion on this fabulous song. In the UK virtually no one has ever heard of Ronee Blakely, and as soon as I saw those two words Country & Western, I lost any interest I might have had. Clearly as Jim L'Homme..................... points out it is about a generalised idea of women who act like Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. Presumably she means specifically women behaving badly to get their own way by exploiting ideas of chivalry, rather than women behaving badly in general. I consider that there might be a sort of equivalence between the Scarletts and the men whose motto is "Treat them mean, keep them keen". If women are attracted to selfish men, in the mistaken belief that they can change them, then do the scheming Scarletts have an attraction that stems from their sellfishness also. Do many men secretly want to be manipulated, or is it really that naughty boys and girls are always inherently more interesting? I would conclude that the key attribute here is attractiveness. If someone grows up with the looks of Vivien Leigh, or (to modernise ) Depp or Pitt, they learn that it is possible to get away with bad behaviour because of them. It is hard to imagine that Joni had never done this herself (or possibly she had and felt guilty), but it is near impossible to speculate on the origins of songs. However it doesn't stop us. I must admit that I hadn't really understood the true awfulness of the plot of Edith. I didn't know that a Kingpin was a Drug Baron, but this twigged the meaning of "He tilts their tired faces , gently to the spoon", is all too clear. I had originally thought of the man being a successful legitimate businessman, albeit with some regrettable non-equal opportunities policies. Echoes here,of the "likeable" rogues and vixens in the Scarlett discussion above. Finally, who would be cast in "Carry on with the Wind"? It would have to be Sid James as Rhett Butler Frankie, rather than Leslie Howard as Ashley Wilkes. Angela Douglas would have to be Melanie Wilkes, Hattie Jacques as Mammie, Amanda Barrie (Cleo) as Scarlett, and Kenneth Williams as her Dad. Any other suggestions? John Uriel ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:19:00 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: RE: couch vs sofa NJC And what about chesterfield ? That's what we said in my house. As in, don't jump on the chesterfield. Get down off the chesterfield. Sometimes couch. Rarely sofa. In French we say sofa or divan. Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:25:28 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Recent posts (njc) Mark emailed me this morning, still being hostile towards me though from the very beginning, I have sought to reconcile and reached out with an olive branch (was anyone here on the boat with Noah or related to doves? I don't want to offend anybody by referencing olive branches.) I think are there are issues that are larger than either of us. Many people are hostile towards Americans and I think that is very unfair. Anyhow, I attempted to respond to Mark this morning and my message was returned so he has either changed his email, or blocked me from sending him anything. I have reprinted the email I sent him here, but have edited out his comments, as not to violate privacy protocol. I mentioned very early on in my correspondence, that there was a long running joke about dingoes with Hell and that she even received a stuffed dingo when she attended jonifest. Using Mark's logic, I would have to assume that meant everybody at jonifest that year was guilty of racial/cultural stereotyping of New Zealand and that none of us know anything about the culture of New Zealand. That is actually not true...I have a cd of music from New Zealand sent to me by Hell herself and I also know that Whole Foods imports lamb from New Zealand, and that Peter Jackson, a famous director is from N.Z. One of my favorite movies from a couple of years ago was "Whale Rider" (not directed by P.Jackson) and the actress who was in it portrayed Mary in the recent film about Mary and Joseph and the birth of Christ. Anyhow, I digress. This whole exchange reminds me frighteningly of the exchanges between Marcel and several people on this list that became very ugly and resulted in Marcel being banned from the JMDL. The reason I am posting this is because I was attacked off list and then references were made to this attack on list and every attempt I have made to reach some understanding has been rejected with hostility. The following was what I sent in my last message, with the comments I was responding to blacked out. Victor *I did not label a race or a country. The comments you sent me were inflammatory and directed at me personally whereas my comments were not personal, did not reference anything hateful, and really had nothing to do with you. *I clearly got the fact that you were grateful. My comment had nothing at all to do with that. I never said it had anything to do with Joni. The difference between our comments was that mine was an aside, a joke, and your reply to me was a personal attack. Read them again and see the difference. > * No Mark, you just don't get it. I immediately send you an email stating that I was sorry and that my intent was not to offend anyone. You then sent me a hateful response and I still tried to communicate with you to resolve this and you refuse to. *Yes it was a joke about an animal. How do you know anything about what I think or know or understand about Australian culture? I know that the didgeridoo is a traditional Aboriginal instrument from Australia and I've known several people that play them. I know that popular sports are cricket, rugby, Australian rules football, soccer "football". I know that ACDC is from Australia as well as Olivia Newton John who is born on my birthday, and Men at Work, one of the bands I liked the most from the 80's. Let's see, I've had Fosters lager from time to time though once when I was talking to a distributor she told me that the "imported" version we have here is actually brewed in the US so I am sure it is not nearly as good as having a real Fosters in Australia. I know that "Picnic at Hanging Rock" directed by Peter Weir was one of the first Australian films to be shown internationally. I saw it back in '98 I believe, at a friend's house. I also know that the kangaroo and Koala bear are native to Australia. In any case, I never said anything or made any reference to what I think Australian culture is based on. I also have completely no idea where you get the impression I have a narrow view of the world. Like I said, you know NOTHING about me. You can't take one aside comment and read all of this into it. From what I can gather, you feel very hostile towards Americans and are directing your hostility at me. Do you honestly think that is fair? For that matter, what do you know about American culture? *I didn't tell you whether you should be on the list. I suggested you take a break which I did myself and was the better for it. And again, you don't know me and have no basis with which to say whether I am friendly and sensitive to other cultures. I don't have to defend myself to you but as I said, I had a serious relationship with a black woman and I totally embraced her culture and even attended church with her and had a great time. I lived in Guadalajara, Mexico for six months and to this day have a strong affinity for Mexican culture. I love Irish culture as well and have a good friend who is professor here at GSU, originally from Belfast. I also dated a French girl from LaBorne, France and even visited her hometown with her and stayed in the French countryside for two weeks. *I did nothing of the kind. I made a joke that had nothing to do with you then you read something personal into it and sent me a very hateful message directed at me, a personal attack. From the beginning, I reached out to you in an attempt to reconcile the misunderstanding and you have consistently rejected every offer I have made to reach some understanding. There is a big difference between what I originally wrote and what you sent me. You used a very offensive racial slur (something I did not do) and attacked me personally with full, clear intent. I've tried to get to some understanding from the beginning but you insist on making it personal and directing hostility towards me. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:34:40 -0500 From: "Evelyne Dubois" Subject: Re: couch vs sofa NJC Wooo, I forgot chesterfield !!! "s'ul couch" or "s'ul chest-e-filll" ...:-))) .... Evelyne - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Malley" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: RE: couch vs sofa NJC > And what about chesterfield ? That's what we said in my house. As in, don't > jump on the chesterfield. > Get down off the chesterfield. Sometimes couch. Rarely sofa. In French we > say sofa or divan. > > Michael in Quebec > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live > Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:45:47 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Boxing kangaroo, a national Australian symbol (njc) I did a little research and found that the boxing kangaroo is actually a symbol that is embraced by Australia, used by both the 2000 and 2004 olympic teams and a symbol, prominently displayed at sporting matches in Australia. So does that mean the olympic teams of Australia are ignorant and stereotyping their own culture? Maybe someone should educate them. Victor The boxing kangaroo is a national personification of Australia, frequently seen in popular culture. The image of the boxing kangaroo Jack is known since 1891. Fifty years later it became a national symbol in the Royal Australian Air Force. The design was inspired by a travelling boxing show which had kangaroos boxing with men. During 1941 boxing kangaroos were stencilled on Australian fighter aeroplanes of the 21st squadron based in Singapore and Malaya. The boxing kangaroo was the symbol for the successful 1983 Australian challenge for the America's Cup. The Boxing Kangaroo flag, a red- gloved golden kangaroo on a green background, was flown from Australia II. Alan Bond (owner of the Australia II yacht) owned the image and licensed it for mass production. The image was bought by the Australian Olympic Committee and the Australian Olympic Team carried a boxing kangaroo toy at the Opening ceremony of the 2000 Sydney Olympics. The mascot was also used by the 2004 Australian Olympic team. The symbol is often displayed prominently at Australian sporting matches, for example Cricket ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:52:19 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Actual footage of kangaroos wrestling in the wild(njc) Some one in Tom Price, a very picturesque town in Australia, posted this video of actual kangaroos wrestling with each other. I think they are very beautiful and interesting creatures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ryH2VJdENA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:57:50 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Boxing kangaroo postage stamps (njc) http://www.auspost.com.au/philatelic/stamps/bk/history.htm If you visit this link, you can order postage stamps featuring BK, the boxing kangaroo mascot from the 2004 olympic games. I'm actually really glad about finding out about this icon as I have learned a lot about Australian culture just in the span of 24 hours. According to this website, the National Museum of Australia in Canberra features a display of the original Boxing Kangaroo flag from the Australia II yacht owned by Alan Bond. Victor from the Australian Post website: Boxing Kangaroo character The Boxing Kangaroo has a huge amount of self-confidence and epitomises the Australian fighting spirit. This unrelenting "have a go" Aussie spirit makes him hugely popular with all Australians. BK is not a lout, nor is he aggressive or arrogant. He is, however, assertive when it comes to defending his country's glory. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:06:15 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Vexillology, the study of flags (njc) http://www.fotw.us/ This website is devoted to the study of flags and has flags from all over the world. Check it out. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:55:06 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Joni Mitchell reference w/kangaroos Well it took a lot of work but I finally found a paragraph that references Joni Mitchell and kangaroos. from The Adelaide Review archives: Steve was part of all of us by Ron Dent http://www.adelaidereview.com.au/_archives.php? subaction=showfull&id=1157678268&archive=1158889678&start_from=&ucat=2& ...He was typically laid back about that possibility. I have no fear of losing my life. If I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it. And he was close to the mark when  understanding the Australian psyche but getting his eventual killer wrong  he said: If something ever happens to me, people are gunna be like: We knew a croc would get him! The Joni Mitchell song that, ironically, tells the story of natural paradise lost to the march of progress and sprawling parking lots, also reminds us: You dont know what youve got till its gone. Well, crikey, Steve Irwin is gone, killed doing what he loved but way too early. And, crikey, weve all lost a little bit of ourselves. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:00:38 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" by Austin LaRoche, columnist 10. Elliott Smith--The Biggest Lie mp3 Saddest Lyric: Oh we're so very precious, you and I and everything that you do, makes me want to die Oh I just told the biggest lie Not adding Elliott Smith to a "saddest songs ever" list would be like excluding Michael Jordan from a "greatest basketball player of all- time" list. And while the saddest Smith song is up for discussion, there's really something about the guitar in this one that really gets me every time. Not only that, but the desperation in Smith's voice really makes it sound as if this lie he is telling isn't just a lie, but the lie that will just ruin him. Elliott and his people have allowed his music to be played in many movies, I am shocked no musical director has put this song somewhere, it's just that perfect. 9. Jeff Buckley--Hallelujah mp3 Saddest Lyric Even Though Buckley Didnt Write It: I've seen your flag on the marble arch But love is not a victory march It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah I have a theory about this tune...wherever you are, in whatever mood you are in (minus furious anger), this song will exemplify that mood 20 times. For instance, say you are driving down a beautiful road during sunset and enjoying a moment of inner piece. All of a sudden, "Hallelujah" comes on the stereo and that drive becomes one of the best moments of your life. The funny thing is, Buckley said that his version was about the "hallelujah of an orgasm," so for those of you who like to make a little love to music, trying humping around to "Hallelujah" and get back to me on how much better the sex was. Actually, keep that to yourself, but I got a feeling I'll be right about it. In the unintentional testing phase of my theory, I was going through one of those "I can't stop listening to this song" stages with "Hallelujah" when my grandmother was put into Hospice. For those of you unfamiliar with Hospice, it is the part of the hospital where patients go once it is understood that they have no chance at making it any longer. I guess the intention is to give the family one last chance to say goodbye in the final moments of someone's life. Well, the night I visited my grandmother to say that "goodbye," which, by the way, is the most awful thing you could ever have to go through in your entire life, I was handling the situation alright. I kind of kept the family loose, cracking a few appropriate jokes and trying to crack a few smiles. After awhile, I needed to get some rest, so I drove my brother, my sister, and myself back to my aunt's house. The silence was unbearable. It was 3 in the morning so the streets were bare, and we were just sitting in sadness. I hit play on my iPod and "Hallelujah" came on. And of course, I lost it. Some songs just hit you. For me, "Hallelujah" is like Mike Tyson in the late 80s--it hits harder than anything else. So maybe this one's a bit personal, but regardless, "Hallelujah" can bring tears to the most masculine of eyes. 8. Warren Zevon--"Please Stay" Saddest Lyric: Will you stay with me to the end? When there's nothing left But you and me and the wind A few years back, Warren Zevon was diagnosed with cancer. At some point in the treatments, he realized he wasn't going to make it, so he decided to make one last album for his family, and many guest stars such as Bruce Springsteen lent a hand on different tracks. But this one, "Please Stay," was always the kicker. I believe alt-country singer-songwriter Kasey Chambers does the background vocals on this, but I'm not sure. Regardless, given the circumstances and the lyrics, if this song doesn't get to you, well, there's a chance you have no soul. But then again, anything written by a guy who is dying asking his loved ones around him to stay with him as he is dying should be disqualified from the "saddest songs ever" list for unfair boundaries. I mean, how can a modern singer-songwriter compete with that? For this reason only, Zevon sits back at 8. The song sums up everything he is going through, but it has an unsizeable advantage over its competition because of the circumstances. Anyway, for you hipsters who don't like old guys who still make albums (Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan, Zevon), this is one to check out just to make sure your heart is still in tact. Joni Mitchell 7. Joni Mitchell--Blue mp3 Saddest Lyric: Everybody's saying that Hell's the hippest way to go Well, I don't think so, but I'll take a look around it, though Blue, I love you. I'm in the "Joni Mitchell has one of the top 10 prettiest voices of all-time" camp. But there's a paradox with a beautiful voice--it tends to make the saddest of songs. There's a lot of songs from the album Blue that get the waterworks moving, but the title track seems to be the one that I always go back to. In "Blue," Joni actually sings the song to the state of sadness ("Blue") itself and seems to embrace it as the song continues. Things have been so tough on this narrator, she is so sad that, in the midst of her gloom, she has gotten to the point where the only thing she can rely on is the sadness itself. I've been in holes before, but never to the point where I could write anything close to as emotional or intense as this one. If you're not familiar with Joni Mitchell, check her out, she's truly one of the great singer-songwriters to ever live. 6. Ryan Adams--"Call Me on Your Way Back Home" Saddest Lyric: And I just want to die without you oh, I just want to die without you yeah, I just want to die without you When it comes to my boy Ryan Adams, the magazines and media tend to talk about "Come Pick Me Up" as the incredibly heartbreaking ballad, usually with a joke like, "I mean 'steal all my records?' how awful is that?" While "Come Pick Me Up" is one of my favorite songs ever, it in no way touches "Call Me on Your Way Back Home" in the sadness category. This is the sound of someone who knew they fucked up. Not like "oh, I should have changed a few things and we'd still be together" fucked up. More like "holy shit, I just lost the love of my life because I'm a complete idiot" fucked up. While the lyrics are short, they are intense--"I just want to die without you"--what a way to sum up the feeling of being completely consumed with a breakup you just want to get past. I also love the imagery of how he explains being young and foolish Honey, I was just a kid, Bubblegum on my shoes Such a well-written line. Such a well-written album. Definitely up there in the best albums to listen to when you're looking to feel bad for yourself. One of my all-time favs. 5. The Smiths--"I Know it's Over" Saddest Lyric: If you're so funny then why are you on your own tonight? and if you're so clever then why are you on your own tonight? if you're so very entertaining then why are you on your own tonight? if you're so very good looking why do you sleep alone tonight? I know because tonight is just like any other night that's why you're on your own tonight. Very underrated song by The Smiths. Morrissey has the absolute perfect voice for a sad ballad. While there's no question that his writing in this song (and for almost all his songs for that matter) is wonderful, he delivers each line with such passion and intensity that he sells the pain to his audience like no one else with this set of lyrics could. In the span of 5 minutes, 51 seconds, he plays victim, sings regret, makes a fool of himself, and sounds scared of whatever is going to happen next. How many singers could pull that off? (Funny note: have you ever noticed how anytime someone's voice sounds like Morrissey's, the person reviewing that person's album refers to it as having Morrissey's "croon?" What the hell is it about Morrissey that spawns the word "croon" every single time? Look into it, "croon" is used EVERY time to explain his voice. I don't think even Pitchfork can deny the phrase.) Fleetwood Mac 4. Fleetwood Mac--Songbird mp3 Saddest Lyric: And I wish you all the love in the world, But most of all, I wish it from myself. Remember earlier how we were talking about Warren Zevon's song being so sad because of the situation he was in? Well, "Songbird" is no different. It's my favorite song on the best-selling album of the 70s, "Rumours," and I think it also might be the only song that wasn't a single. (That was just a joke Fleetwood Mac fanatics.) In case you didn't know, one of the reasons the album worked so well was because there were two breakups in the band: the well-publicized Stevie Nicks-Lindsey Buckingham breakup, and the lesser-known divorce between Christine and John McVie. Christine wrote this song, and man do you feel awful for her and her situation. It's obvious she still loves him and would do anything for him, but it's not reciprocated, so she's having to tell herself to get herself to keep moving on, even if she'd rather stand still. It's so masterfully written and the simple piano melody in the background really hammers it home, not to mention that little lassie Steve Nicks and her wonderful voice. If you're one of those people who swears you don't need to get Rumours because you've heard every song from it on the radio, you need to get it just for "Songbird." (PS--Because it was the highest selling album of the 70s, Rumors can always be found at record stores for $1-$3 on vinyl. Great vinyl to have.) 3. Bruce Springsteen--"You're Missing" Saddest Lyric: Pictures on the nightstand, TV's on in the den Your house is waiting, your house is waiting For you to walk in, for you to walk in But you're missing Bruce Springsteen's album, The Rising, was the most blatant and publicized post-9/11 album. No one can argue that. 9/11 isn't easy to write about. It was a lot easier to be speechless about 9/11 then vocal. I mean, what could you say? Still, 5 years later, not much has been written in the music world. There's references and albums about living in the post-9/11 world, but nothing is as directly about 9/11 and the immediate effects of the attacks as The Rising. There are songs about moving forward (the title track, "My City of Ruins") but there're also a few about dealing with losses, and "You're Missing" is the best of those. The narrator is a woman, agonizing with the fact that while everything in her once great life (house, children) are the same, the fact that her assumed husband is missing makes that great life empty. Again, without the circumstances, I'm not sure it would hit as hard. But those ARE the circumstances. Listening to this song makes me upset that 9/11 wasn't addressed in music enough. Would the great folk writers of the 50s and 60s ever allow an event like that to happen without writing hundreds of songs about it? Musicians have been somewhat political since the war in Iraq broke out, but it's as if they just skipped 9/11. I think this is something that we need in a historic sense. 30 years from now, our kids will read books and see movies about 9/11, but they won't have much music to help make sense of what that day was really like. I listen to old music, and I feel like it helps me understand the 60s much more than any book, documentary, or TV show. But the 9/11 wave already passed, and we have very little to show for it musically. 2. Bob Dylan--"Sara" Saddest Lyric: Sara, Sara It's all so clear, I could never forget Sara, Sara Lovin' you is the one thing I'll never regret Reason 2,091,874 why Bob Dylan is the greatest songwriter of all- time: As a notorious adulterer, and a well-known drug deal and asshole, Dylan crafts a plea to his wife, Sara, who was ending their marriage at the time, to stay with him, and somehow, by the end of the song, you end up rooting for Dylan to get her back. Amazing. I've seen good imagery in songwriting, I've seen great imagery in songwriting, but I've never seen imagery as good as "Sara." Just an example... Sleepin' in the woods By a fire in the night Drinkin' white rum In a Portugal bar Them playin' leap-frog And hearin' about Snow White You in the market place In Savanna-la-Mar Dylan paints a picture of their life with their children playing on the beach, everyone incredibly joyful, and then eventually, the beach is deserted, the love is over, and he's just begging like a drunk on the doorstep at 3:45 in the morning for her back. While I'm sure all of his fans sided with him, and to an extent, Sara appreciated the song, you gotta believe she was also somewhat horrified at that fact that he was trying to play victim. You almost have to be amazed at how big of a prick he could be to write something like this, but you'll be even more amazed how you forget everything wrong he ever did when you hear how beautiful and heartbreaking this song is. 1. Tom Waits--Day After Tomorrow mp3 Saddest Lyric: I close my eyes every night And I dream that I can hold you They fill us full of lies, everyone buys About what it means to be a soldier I still don't know how I'm supposed to feel About all the blood that's been spilled Will God on his throne Get me back home On the day after tomorrow Part of me thinks that because this song is so recent (2004), it doesn't deserve the top spot on this list. But the other part of me thinks because it is so recent (the Iraqi War), it makes it that much sadder. Regardless, Tom takes into the eyes of a soldier, confused and lonely, missing his family and contemplating what he's doing in the first place. I really feel this is one of the best written songs I've ever listened to, and believe had Waits given a damn, he could have released it as a single and won about 3,000 Grammys and other pointless music awards. The Red Staters may not be too keen on this one, but I do think they should give it a shot, seeing as it's just about a confused soldier. If you're someone like myself who is terrified at the idea of going to war so you respect very fondly the efforts of those brave enough to fight, you'll really love seeing a vulnerable side of soldiers they can't really show on the battlefield. And I know, Waits isn't actually a soldier nor to my knowledge has he ever been, but I don't think anyone believes he's too far off in his narration. Regardless, of every song I've ever heard, this is the saddest, this does make me feel the most depressed, and is a great piece of musical history. So what about you guys? What're your favorite tearjerkers? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:03:05 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Renaissance woman - Joni in UK Sunday Times There's a nice article and photo in today's Sunday Times, mainly about the Alberta ballet. See _The renaissance woman-Arts & Entertainment-Music-TimesOnline_ (http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1353615. ece) Can't wait to hear the new album - the prospect is so exciting! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:12:24 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Digging through the JMDL archives Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:16:17 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC Re: Joni Tribute - What happened to the '80s and '90s? > No actually, now that I think of it Joni needs to change the name of her song > to "Sex if it doesnt kill can nearly get you impeached" Don't you people listen? He didn't have 'sexual relations with that woman'. No, he was given a blow job. And we all know that that aint sex. Don't we? It certainly was not covered in sex education at school so it can't be sex. Now had he screwed a Kangaroo THAT would have been sex.(I got my 'sex eductaion' in Aussie and they showed us a film of Kangaroos having sex. Twenty six years later, I have yet to meet a Kangaroo I really felt that way about). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" NJC Victor said: "So what about you guys? What're your favorite tearjerkers?" "Jessie" by Janis Ian and performed by Joan Baez also Richard Shindell's "Fleur de Lis". Not sure others might see the sorrow behind that one, but it is clear to me and it rips my heart out tho it is a guys' song. It was interesting to read what that writer said about Dylan, and "Sara". I loved that whole album, "Desire" and that song very well, but it never struck me as quite that sad. I guess my sense was he still had a chance with her if he wanted it. and from Leonard Cohen: (among so many others from him) Last Year's Man The rain falls down on last year's man, that's a jew's harp on the table, that's a crayon in his hand. And the corners of the blueprint are ruined since they rolled far past the stems of thumbtacks that still throw shadows on the wood. And the skylight is like skin for a drum I'll never mend and all the rain falls down amen on the works of last year's man. I met a lady, she was playing with her soldiers in the dark oh one by one she had to tell them that her name was Joan of Arc. I was in that army, yes I stayed a little while; I want to thank you, Joan of Arc, for treating me so well. And though I wear a uniform I was not born to fight; all these wounded boys you lie beside, goodnight, my friends, goodnight. I came upon a wedding that old families had contrived; Bethlehem the bridegroom, Babylon the bride. Great Babylon was naked, oh she stood there trembling for me, and Bethlehem inflamed us both like the shy one at some orgy. And when we fell together all our flesh was like a veil that I had to draw aside to see the serpent eat its tail. Some women wait for Jesus, and some women wait for Cain so I hang upon my altar and I hoist my axe again. And I take the one who finds me back to where it all began when Jesus was the honeymoon and Cain was just the man. And we read from pleasant Bibles that are bound in blood and skin that the wilderness is gathering all its children back again. The rain falls down on last year's man, an hour has gone by and he has not moved his hand. But everything will happen if he only gives the word; the lovers will rise up and the mountains touch the ground. But the skylight is like skin for a drum I'll never mend and all the rain falls down amen on the works of last year's man. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:23:04 EST From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: No JC really Digging through the JMDL archives actually, now that I think of it Joni needs to change the name of her song > to "Sex if it doesnt kill can nearly get you impeached" - ---------------------------------------------------- Hey, say what you will about Clinton as a husband but really as a President he made alot of progress. I don't think you should judge a President by his personal life as it has nothing to do with his professional life. Where he did go wrong as a President was when he sort of lied/misled the public about it. But when he lied...no one died. I can't say the same about Bush......I'd take Clinton back anyday..... - -Monika, one who usually stays out of political conversations but has very strong opinions nonetheless ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:23:37 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: A Joniamigo makes good-the official article! NJC Sherelle, my Strawberry Fields Sister, shared: Here's a tribute to our dear Paz in Offbeat magazine! http://offbeat.com/artman/publish/article_2025.shtml ********* Merci Sherelle, ma belle! And applause, applause for you, Paz! How wonderful to see good things happen to good people. And nice to see "Joni Mitchell" mentioned in that article, too. And about the prononciation of Paz: in my conversations with Julius, I used to pronounce it "Pazz" (as in "jazz") and Julius would always gently correct me. "It's "Poz", like in "Oz"." So now, I always think: "Wizard of Poz" when pronouncing his name. LOL, NPIMH: "We're off to see the Wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Poz. You'll find he is a whiz of a Wiz! If ever a Wiz! there was. If ever oh ever a Wiz! there was The Wizard of Poz is one because, Because, because, because, because, because. Because of the wonderful things he does." And regarding Preservation Hall Jazz, in a sweet bit of synchronicity, it was mentioned on the CBS Sunday Morning Show in a commentary by Calvin Trillin. He was talking about his love for his deceased wife, and how we should express our love whenever we can....how one time when she was coming back from a trip, he hired some Preservation Hall Jazz musicians to meet her at the gate, where they played "Hello Dolly". Very lovely piece. I have not read anything by him YET (shame on me!), although I just read a review of his book "About Alice", which is now on my long list. More than one reviewer has compared it to Joan Didion's "The Year of Magical Thinking", which many of us here read and appreciated. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400066158/ref=pd_cp_b_title/104-7766716-6699966 Happy Sunday, tout le Jonimonde! Love and paz (paz means "peace" in Spanish), Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:40:32 EST From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" Ooh, very interesting list! I do love lists! I made a list like this on my blog on MySpace. Let me dig it up here........... 5. How Many Friends or Behind Blue Eyes-The Who I did original put just HMW on my own list but I think the other stands just as tall. HMF appeals to me when I have problems with my own friends. BBE has got to be one of the saddest songs ever written by anyone/recorded/ and sung by Roger Daltrey. His voice here just makes me ache man. 4. Mother- John Lennon This songs makes me feel so very bad for Lennon. It really is the voice that of these songs that get you and express the most sadness. I am sorry that John never really had a "mother." 3. The Final Cut- Pink Floyd Roger Waters here wrote one of the most meloncholy songs I have ever heard in my life. He sings with so much emotion---so much pain, that sometimes I just can't stand it. By the end, I want to die myself. 2. Don't Leave Me Now- Pink Floyd Now here it's funny. The speaker of the song is not a good guy by any means. He talks about needing his woman to beat to a pulp, putting her through a shredder in front of his friends, etc etc. He's very antagonistic and yet by the end of the song you feel bad for HIM! Just the loss in his voice....ooh gives me chills. 1. River- Joni Mitchell Yes, when I made my list a while back I did put this as number 1. Once again, more than anything, it is her voice that expresses the pain the most. Of course the imagery/symbolism of a "river" too is so much. For a while I couldn't listen to this song without feeling like I wanted to die (in a good way, I mean, its so emotional!). One after a night at the bar, my friend and I are were really down so I played this song in the car over and over and over and over again. I related to the pain well so much that my friend said stop listening to this Monika! I didn't of course, haha. But anyway, now I still feel like that but at the same time it makes me happy too. You get into such a state of peace and sadness, but you're able to take it because you realize other people get it too. Also by the end, I always say in my head, "me and you both man" as far as "I wish I had a river" goes..... Honorable mention: High and Dry by Radiohead "You broke another mirror, you're turning into something you are not....... Drying up in conversation, you'll be the one who cannot talk All your insides fall to pieces, you just sit there wishing you could still make love They're the ones who'll hate you when you think you've got the world all sussed out They're the ones who'll spit on you, you'll be the one screaming out....." - -monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:03:34 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: SJC Bandanas and braids Bene wrote, in part: I am confused. Some of you are old enough to be long-time Mitchell fans. Am I to assume that in addition to what you say you wear you also have long grey braids and bandanas...? I had my braids cut off when I was 11. But am growing my hair now. By the time it turns grey I'll be entitled to call my self a longtime Mitchell fan too. So I guess I'll have to wear braids then. I find it hard to imagine Joni in that outfit though. ****** The bandanas and braids alliteration makes me think of "I in my leather and lace....", but hey, that's just JMOCDed me, "long-time Mitchell fan". (There's a nice picture of Joni and Graham somewhere out there, where she has braids and a cape on, looking a little cold and demure, as I recall.) But really....bandanas and braids. Holy mackerel! I'm back in the 70s (I know, I know Muller, I never left! ; ) ) I always wore long braids (think Nicolette Larson) and often wore a blue bandana. Ha ha....real fashion queen, I know! But that's the truth. And I'm thinkin' I *probably* wore this "groovy" get-up wandering down the Champs Elysees ("Voila une Americaine!") and to the five Joni concerts I was blessed to attend in the 70s. Yep. I'm pretty sure I was wearing the braids and the bandana, along with blue Dr. Scholl sandals (or clogs or boots for the two winter concerts) and either cowgirl jeans or an Indian print skirt, topped with one of those peasant blouses with all the embroidery and little mirrors. I had one of those embroidered satchels, too, (TIC! the thumb and the satchel or the rented Rolls-Royce) that was large enough to sneak "a bottle of German wine to drink" into the concert. (Actually, it was Portuguese wine -- Mateus. Remember that? It was a smaller and more compact bottle, easier to smuggle in!) A lot of us put bandanas on our dogs, too, in those days. Labrador Retrievers and Irish Setters were the dog eat dog of the era. My black Lab was named Ruby. Ruby Tuesday. (Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday Who could hang a name on you? When you change with every new day Still Im gonna miss you...) Now leave the girl alone, Muller -- she's lookin' like a nostaglia queen! Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:24:49 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Motitan@aol.com wrote: > Ooh, very interesting list! I do love lists! I made a list like > this on my > blog on MySpace. Let me dig it up here........... > > > Cool! Nice list. Just off of the top of my head...in no particular order 1. from Les Miserables "On My Own" sung by the character Eponine 2. Joni Mitchell "Two Grey Rooms" 3. Nick Drake "Fruit Tree" 4. Tom Waits "Day After Tomorrow" 5. India Arie's version of "Heart of the Matter" by Don Henley - her version brings me to tears, she conveys so much emotion 6. Stevie Wonder "Overjoyed" -when Ahdayneekay and I broke up and I listened to this song I was so sad 7. Stevie Wonder "I Never Dreamed You'd Leave in Summer" 8. Stevie Wonder "You and I"- maybe the best song ever written about true love. 9. Grateful Dead "Brokedown Palace"...one of the prettiest Hunter/ Garcia collaborations. I always play this song at the end of the weekend when I go to the Georgia Boogie 10. Eric Clapton "Tears in Heaven" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:17:31 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: SJC Bandanas and braids njc "get juiced on Mateus and just cut loose" .....Elton and Bernie Em :) - --- Patti Parlette wrote: > to sneak "a bottle of > German wine > to drink" into the concert. (Actually, it was Portuguese wine -- > Mateus. > Remember that? It was a smaller and more compact bottle, easier to > smuggle > in!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:36:41 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: SJC Bandanas and braids njc Tres bien, Em! >"get juiced on Mateus and just cut loose" >.....Elton and Bernie >Em >:) > Now, can you imagine getting juiced on Mateus and then Miss Joni Mitchell ! ! ! walks on stage? Just cut loose and get up and jive! You're in Joni heaven above. xo, pp NPIMH: "Those were the days, my friends....." _________________________________________________________________ FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo  buy and sell with people you know http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:11:23 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" hi >>>victor asked >>>> So what about you guys? What're your favorite tearjerkers? well - tried - but couldnt get it down to 10 songs....... songs that rip me up - in no particular order: * hello in there take your choice of eddi reader, joan baez, or bette midler old people, they just grow lonesome, waiting for someonoe to say, say hello in there i hate this song - its just too sad to listen to.... *millworker - emmylou harris (i know james taylor wrote it - i just prefer emmylous version Millwork ain't easy; mill-work ain't hard Millwork, it ain't nothing but an awful boring job I'm waiting for a day dream To take me through the morning And put me in my coffee break Where I can have a sandwich and remember. Then it's me and my machine For the rest of the morning For the rest of the afternoon And the rest of my life. * memories of east texas - michelle shocked such strong, gentle, peaceful imagery of someone growing up - just a hint of watch out, & detours. then ripped apart looking back & asking myself, what the hell d'you let them break your spirit for you know their lives ran in circles so small, they thought theyd seen it all & they could not make a place for a girl who'd seen the ocean one of my all time favourite songs. simple, elegant, powerful, personal. * ballad of penny evans written by steve goodman (??), perfected by michelle shocked acapella, powerful, personal... another of my favourite songs. commercially released on the reissue of short sharp shocked. i was fortunate enough to hear her sing this twice in grahamstown. the final song (3rd encore) of her final set (at my request) just shattered the crowd & left them totally speechless & silent. what a show............. * good intentions - giselle hawkins one of the finest musicians i have ever heard. anywhere. only a handfull of songs - each of them incredibly precious to me. * cause cheap is how i feel - cowboy junkies *before believing - emmylou harris stunning song about communication & isolation. *janis joplin - a whole bunch - how do you pick????: piece of my heart what good can drinking do silver threads & golden needles all is loneliness me & bobby mcgee try (just a little bit harder) *joan baez - again - how do i pick joe hill ellen danzan solas (cueca sola) prison trilogy (billy rose) weary mothers (peoples union no1) where's my apple pie? *down to you - joni mitchell *laura sippola - kaukana well, i think its sad. sounds sad. i dont understand a word, but a great song, from a great album. * lisa loeb & nine stories - alone great song about loneliness & depression *little river band - i dream alone song about emigration from the uk to australia * lucinda williams - i lost it * the pain that plagues creation - mark heard great, almost unknown singer/songwriter. won an americana music award 16 years after death! (buddy miller cover "worry too much") * christmas in paradise - mary gauthier * mother marian - rory block * franks song - stryngs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:06:36 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Equal Rights Amendment, njc In a message dated 2/11/07 8:11:55 AM, Siquomb@Comcast.net writes: > http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/era.htm > > Thanks Cassy... I know about this site. I'm looking more for personal experience with ERA. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:33:22 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: One person's list "The 10 saddest songs I've Ever Heard" NJC From: "Em" > "Jessie" by Janis Ian and performed by Joan Baez Yeah- I saw JB at Bread & Roses '80 and she said she was going to sing a song guaranteed to make you cry ( I was like..yeah, whatever)...and she did Jessie, and she was right. My grandmother's boyfriend had just killed himself, and his name was Jess, I was able to feel her grief at that moment. Was this the year Joni was there, and did Joni come out and do "Dida" with her, or did I just dream that? "Song For Sharon" - Joni Mitchell ...there is one line in here that catches my throat every time. I won't say which. "Cat's In The Cradle"- Harry Chapin -especially for guys with sons. Laments for John Lennon by his friends Paul McCartney and Elton John: "Here Today", "Empty Garden" "Abraham, Martin & John" (Dick Holler) - Dion I'm sorry, but Dick Holler sounds like someplace down the road from where Dolly Parton grew up---sorry.... It says here that Dylan performed this song on his '81 tour, no doubt referencing Mr. Lennon. RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #63 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------