From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #22 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 19 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 022 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Herjia a Dirge ??? [Andeemac2006 ] Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [johnnybgoode@lineone.net] Hejira Dreary Ramble [missblux@googlemail.com] Travelogue/Downloading/Albums [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC ["Azeem Ali Khan" ] Re: Both Sides Now Country? [Mark-Leon Thorne ] This weeks concerts at Wolfgangs Vault njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now Country? [Bob Muller ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Bob Muller ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums [Em ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums [Em ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [johnnybgoode@lineone.net] WOHAM [Em ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Catherine McKay ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums njc [Em ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [mags h ] Re: stamps of many countries [Bob Muller ] Re: stamps of many countries [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Mastering, and the loudness wars (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Chris Marshall ] Re: Herjia a Dirge ??? [Norma Jean Garza ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["Jenny Goodspeed" ] Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [johnnybgoode@lineone.net] Re: njc,sign and height [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Joni archive at CBC ["Stephen Toogood" ] RE: MP3's/Janis Ian ["Stephen Toogood" ] saw America! ["anon anon" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:07:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Herjia a Dirge ??? Its the first time I have heard one of the most wonderfull albums to ever be made and released called a Dirge LOL, Try try try to read the lyrics to the songs on Hejira, I know its difficult these days with crappy Jewel Box's to contend with but try and read the lyrics from the Joni mitchell site while listening to the music,and appreaciate the art form of her lyric writing , particullary this Album. For me the interplay of Jaco and Joni is a wonder to behold on this album. I would go to far as say that Refuge of the Roads is my ultimate perfect song in all its atributes, the imaging of the lyrics is amazing, just read the lyrics, I thought Hejira was a dirge the first time, then it clicked and I have never looked back ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:43:23 +0000 From: johnnybgoode@lineone.net Subject: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Sorry All, I didn't think I was saying anything that controversial. Heijira in general has several nice tunes with memorable words that hit home emotionally. Song for Sharon, Coyote Amelia, and Black Crow for example. They are longish, but not overblown. When I was digitising my Joni collection it was very high on the list after HOSL CAS Blue etc. I have never wanted to get the CD of DJRD and my double vinyl is near mint, as I never want to play it, now matter how good the playing is on it. I probably just don't get it but what would others say was her worst album, DJRD must be up there or thereabouts. Perhaps someone could explain? Even the Beatles produced a relative turkey in Let it Be, and about one third of the White Album is pretty bad. ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:06:39 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Hejira Dreary Ramble Hi Stephen, wow! Just last week I said on the list that I had never heard anyone say anything bad about Hejira - and here you are! I always thought it was one of the wonders of this album that most people feel the songs immediately like you say, and can listen to them again and again. A dreary ramble - wow people are different! Bene Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:04:15 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter... (+ Hejira) I've made a real effort to enjoy Hejira and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter over the years, but it mostly doesn't come. Hejira = dreary ramble, DJRD = the height of pretension and regurgitation. I can understand other people liking them, however I just dont feel most of the songs. All that said, I feel DJRD has a more varried and brighter sound than Hejira, and at first I thought it had a lot of potential. The Joni albums that mean the most to me are: STAS MOI HOSL amelio747 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:27:29 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:09:45 EST From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums Monika said And as far as downloading,I just don't get those people who have a shitload of burnt cds. I so agree! I don't mind the occasional exchange of a song, or people like Mark and Bob making compilations, I tend to think of people who burn their cds themselves as selfish. Maybe because I had a friend like that. Oh I'm so arty and I need to have all the latest and funky music cause I'm so INTO it... She also liked to have a shitload of friends, but somehow our friendship, too, seemed rather like a cheap copy. Strangely enough, she once got really upset with someone who had burnt one of her CDs. It was a gift from an ex, and she felt the other person should have asked permission. Interesting view on copyright. I'm sure there are hundreds of lovely people on the list who'd disagree though! I dont know if you know that travelogue is one of the albums that really divide the waters. There are songs on it that have really hit me ahrd with their beauty, but there are also many that I just can't listen to. It'll be interesting to hear what you think. Surley noone is annoyed by long posts here! Some time before you joined we had a talk about not getting responses to emails. It seemed that a lot of us had been overwhelmed at the warm welcome at first, and felt really happy. Then there was apoint when people responded less to our emails, and most had thought at that point, oh well, these people are just interested in talking to their own friends. But don't be fooled! Every time the subject comes up it turns out that all sorts of people read and appreciate your emails but jsut take too long to respond. Enough for today, take care Bene Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:45:15 +0000 From: "Azeem Ali Khan" Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC My response to Monika is that it doesn't have to be either/or. Until relatively recently, I had what I would describe as a fairly Luddite view of downloading: it wasn't for me, and that was that, especially as I know a few musicians, none of them rich, who would take a dim view of anyone downloading their music for nothing. Then I discovered emusic... What I now find is that I'm using emusic in more than one way: to discover new music, through the recommendations of like-minded people and just by browsing; then, I use to to fill gaps in my collection; finally, to replace music that I might have, say, on a scratched old cassette or indeed scratched old vinyl. And the reason I use emusic is that it is "legit" and does pay royalties. That said, I still have a huge collection of bought CDs and vinyl, which I cherish. And I like to use THAT collection to make CDs for friends - so I've upgraded from making C90 cassettes. It's spreading music around, and people may then go on to buy music by people I've introduced them to. I get the point about the romance going out of acquiring music, but I'd argue that this really happened with the advent of CD. I could never get as passionate about a compact disc as a vinyl record, so it's not such a big deal to download from emusic. Oh, and it's a LOT cheaper too! Oh, and about long posts: I don't mind them at all; what bugs me is really long posts with NO PARAGRAPHS! Azeem in London On 1/19/07, missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:09:45 EST > From: Motitan@aol.com > Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums > > Monika said > > And as far as downloading,I just don't get those people who have a > shitload of burnt cds. > > I so agree! I don't mind the occasional exchange of a song, or people > like Mark and Bob making compilations, I tend to think of people who > burn their cds themselves as selfish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:10:31 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: stamps of many countries Stamps I would like to see are: Blue cover, the photo from the back of STAS and the cover self portrait from Both Sides, Now. They'd have to be Canadian stamps though, right? Do they put non Americans on American stamps? Mark in Sydney NP Fly Away - John Denver and Olivia Newton-John (PS. Bob, has Olivia ever covered Joni?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:35:43 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Country? I've had this experience too, Monika. I think it's because folk music and country music came from the same desires; to get back to the purity of acoustic music. To keep it plain and simple and let the story be told in the lyrics. That's what they both have in common although, they had slightly different origins. The term, "folk" music would have been coined to show these stories are from the common people as opposed to the aristocracy. Country music began, as the name implies, with the simple living people of the rural areas and therefore, kept simple in order to tell a story. Folk music hit its hey day in North America and Australia in the 1960s for the abovementioned reasons when young people wanted their voices heard in a popular medium yet, kept affordable. Although every country has its own form of folk music, North American folk music grew out of a growing popularity for old English folk music. The artist who really brought that form of music into the limelight was Joan Baez. Joni says she began her career emulating Joan and others and if you listen to her really early bootleg recordings, you can hear that style. Even in her lyrics. Mostly song about people in the third person. Joni started the revolution of personalising the lyrics and in the process, restructured what we know today as folk music. Country music, on the other hand seems to have always been personal stories but mostly referring to lifestyle rather than philosophising about life or politics. Does that sound about right? Mark in Sydney. NP Tenterfield Saddler - Peter Allen (an early '70s Australian folk song - or is it a country song since Tenterfield is a country town?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:41:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: This weeks concerts at Wolfgangs Vault njc Wow, check it out... _http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/_ (http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/) NP: The Band, Night They Drove... Los Angeles Forum Los Angeles, CA 02/14/1974 rosie in nj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:41:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Country? You'll have to tackle the latter part of that question yourself, Monika. As for BSN, it has certainly been done in a country styling (Baillie & The Boys, Janie Fricke, among several others) but I wouldn't say that Joni's version is country in any way. What is interesting is that what constitutes "country" has changed a lot from 1968 to 2007. Much of the music you hear on today's country radio would have been considered pop music back in the 60's/70's. Today's pop music is a combination of urban and dance music. Bob NP: Juliana Hatfield, "Congratulations" PS: Keep your long posts coming. Firstly, I don't think they're very long; secondly, I love it when new people jump right in and KEEP POSTING. Too often a newbie introduces him/her self and then we never hear from them again. _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:52:35 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC Just to piggyback on what Azeem has stated, it's important to remember that when a lot of us were your age, music was anything BUT portable. I used to have to buy LP's, which I could enjoy in my bedroom or at a friend's, but I'd have to put it on tape (if I had a nickel for every Maxell UDXL II I bought I'd be a rich, rich man) to be able to play it in the car and other locations where it just wasn't practical to have a turntable. So you get in the habit of having just the music, and enjoying it on its own. Mind you, I've always bought music & always will (I already have $$ in hand for the new Shins & Mellencamp this Tuesday) and I enjoy looking at the inserts, notes, lyrics, etc but typically once I've studied it a time or two I'm not inclined to look at it again. Joni is of course the exception to this rule. Bob NP: Doug Ashdown, "Marcie" _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter No need to apologize - your opinion is valid and preferences are what they are. It sounds like you've certainly given them a fair shake. While Hejira struck me as being mystical & magical, I didn't really get it until I listened to it repeatedly. It was very different from everything else I was spinning those days, and the lyrics were so powerful & deep it took time & additional life experiences for them to gain significance. Keep the controversies coming! Bob NP: Flaming Lips, "Waitin' For A Superman" _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums if you download from a "purchased" music site, the artist STILL gets paid! Em - --- missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:09:45 EST > From: Motitan@aol.com > Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums > > Monika said > > And as far as downloading,I just don't get those people who have a > shitload of burnt cds. > > I so agree! I don't mind the occasional exchange of a song, or people > like Mark and Bob making compilations, I tend to think of people who > burn their cds themselves as selfish. Maybe because I had a friend > like that. Oh I'm so arty and I need to have all the latest and funky > music cause I'm so INTO it... She also liked to have a shitload of > friends, but somehow our friendship, too, seemed rather like a cheap > copy. > > Strangely enough, she once got really upset with someone who had > burnt > one of her CDs. It was a gift from an ex, and she felt the other > person should have asked permission. Interesting view on copyright. > > I'm sure there are hundreds of lovely people on the list who'd > disagree though! > > I dont know if you know that travelogue is one of the albums that > really divide the waters. There are songs on it that have really hit > me ahrd with their beauty, but there are also many that I just can't > listen to. It'll be interesting to hear what you think. > > Surley noone is annoyed by long posts here! Some time before you > joined we had a talk about not getting responses to emails. It seemed > that a lot of us had been overwhelmed at the warm welcome at first, > and felt really happy. Then there was apoint when people responded > less to our emails, and most had thought at that point, oh well, > these > people are just interested in talking to their own friends. But don't > be fooled! Every time the subject comes up it turns out that all > sorts > of people read and appreciate your emails but jsut take too long to > respond. > > Enough for today, take care > > Bene > > Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:26:36 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums yeah well you know what? the "magic" of albums went away with the invention of the CD in a jewel case. The writing, for example, on "Blue" EVEN ON THE VINYL ALBUM COVER is tiny - on the CD, the letters are the size of stubble on a man's morning beard. The album cover thing is largely over. I don't see why they can't stick a CD in an album cover the size of regular old vinyl album covers! Would be thinner than jewel cases and of a size to be visually appreciated. The size of a CD cover is too small. (unless you like "miniatures") I mean, to read the playlist on the CD cover of Blue I'd have to wear 2 pairs of readers! With each album I purchase from iTunes as a download, OR from eMusic (also purchased music) I think to myself, do I "need" the album art? And what I always come up with is that I very much miss the old 13 by 13 or whatever it is, album jackets. WHY the heck can't they put a CD in those???? I don't get it! I bet Dick Cheney is making money off jewel cases. Its THAT evil. Em - --- Motitan@aol.com wrote: > art work is 'Travelogue.' I say this to Monika and the > new fans. Joni's music has to purchased, because it > would be a sin of art not to. Joni's music is not for > downloads > ---------------------------------------- > I was at this store that I really like last weekend that sells > incense, > music, some hippie-ish clothes, beads, etc. and I strolled over to > the "M" > section and they had Travelogue there. I am interested in Joni's > artwork. I like > what I've seen on her album covers so far. I don't know art per se > but I can > appreciate beauty. I read a more recent interview with Joni and she > said > something to the extent that no one takes her art seriously so she > doesn't take > it seriously either anymore and right off I thought, "aww Joni you > don't > really mean that man, come on now." I mean it's one thing to have > one > talent/passion but to have two?!? Damn. Keep at it man. And as > far as downloading, > I just don't get those people who have a shitload of burnt cds. I > love, > love, LOVE cds. I love owning them! I love knowing that I'm giving > money to > the artist who made it so in a way encouraging them to make more > albums! I > love when the words on printed in the insert. I love the insert > itself--the > pictures, the listing of the musicians, any notes the artist makes. > I love > covers! God I love it all so much that I detest Ipods and all that > crap. It's > so cold....and impersonal....there's no connection there...you just > download > whatever at random and lose the magic of albums. I love the art of > the album. > I love that an artist works at putting a suitable album together > the way > they want it to be heard. WHY TAKE THAT AWAY YOU CRUEL > IPODS?!?!?!?! I'm > sorry. I'm in a silly mood tonight but I am dead serious about > liking albums for > what they are. > -Monika > P.S. Is anyone bothered by my long posts? I'm sorry if I write too > much. > It's an eyeful....hahaha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:34:34 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums NJC Hi Azeem, I think in fact what you say is what the music industry reckons too: that people will download out of curiosity, and purchase when they know they like the music. I guess that is a bit like listening to the radio: you find out what is new and around, and if you are interested you'll buy the album. I ahve heard the argument made that evening CD burning is not harmful to the industry. I remember that I really liked some CD that my friend that I mentioned in that other email had. She said oh why don't you burn a copy - and I said nah... I copied her Jack Johnson and guess what it never grew on me. It is true that CDs are usually less aesthetically pleasing than LPs. But there are exceptions. At a time when for some reason it hadn't occurred to me that Joni Mitchell had made more than the three albums I owned I came to a friend's house who had just purchased Travelogue. Holding it in my hand I wanted to eat the entire box, like a box of the finest Belgian chocolate. The discs with her paintings printed on them, the entire layout was so aesthetically pleasing. I hope the sun shines as nicely in London as it does in Cambridge! What a relief! Bene On 1/19/07, Azeem Ali Khan wrote: > My response to Monika is that it doesn't have to be either/or. Until > relatively recently, I had what I would describe as a fairly Luddite view of > downloading: it wasn't for me, and that was that, especially as I know a few > musicians, none of them rich, who would take a dim view of anyone > downloading their music for nothing. Then I discovered emusic... > > What I now find is that I'm using emusic in more than one way: to discover > new music, through the recommendations of like-minded people and just by > browsing; then, I use to to fill gaps in my collection; finally, to replace > music that I might have, say, on a scratched old cassette or indeed > scratched old vinyl. And the reason I use emusic is that it is "legit" and > does pay royalties. > > That said, I still have a huge collection of bought CDs and vinyl, which I > cherish. And I like to use THAT collection to make CDs for friends - so > I've upgraded from making C90 cassettes. It's spreading music around, and > people may then go on to buy music by people I've introduced them to. > > I get the point about the romance going out of acquiring music, but I'd > argue that this really happened with the advent of CD. I could never get as > passionate about a compact disc as a vinyl record, so it's not such a big > deal to download from emusic. Oh, and it's a LOT cheaper too! > > Oh, and about long posts: I don't mind them at all; what bugs me is really > long posts with NO PARAGRAPHS! > > Azeem in London > > > On 1/19/07, missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:09:45 EST > > From: Motitan@aol.com > > Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums > > > > Monika said > > > > And as far as downloading,I just don't get those people who have a > > shitload of burnt cds. > > > > I so agree! I don't mind the occasional exchange of a song, or people > > like Mark and Bob making compilations, I tend to think of people who > > burn their cds themselves as selfish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:00:44 +0000 From: johnnybgoode@lineone.net Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Bob, Thanks, Some very valid points. As a teenager young 20's when I first heard or bought the then Joni corpus, one doesn't see the subtlties in the lyrics or the less than obvious hints in the music. Nowadays as a middle aged man one naturally sides with Richard, or thinks Joni was stupid to waste any time with Coyote or Carey, but it was worth it so we could enjoy the songs, and she suffered for her art rather than us, most of the time. You remember the albums that no one wanted you to play or you would put on the turntable to encourage people to leave. DJRD was nothing like that bad, but the others are much better. John ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:44:50 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: WOHAM finally started watching it last night. I was (once again) riveted by Joni's genius and beauty and humor and honesty. And I think I understand now why she went away from the more melodic style after C&S. I still think those are the best jewels in her crown though. But I understand now why she had to go ahead and do the other stuff. Creating her next new language and all. I can't believe she carried those first 25 or so great songs with her for so long before beig recorded! I guess she really did go through her "scuffling days". Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - --- Bob Muller wrote: > I didn't think I was saying anything that > controversial.> > > No need > to apologize - your opinion is valid and preferences > are what they are. It > sounds like you've certainly given them a fair > shake. While Hejira struck me > as being mystical & magical, I didn't really get it > until I listened to it > repeatedly. I've had times where Hejira bored the crap out of me and others where it's like a musical meditation. I don't think it's background music. It must be paid attention to, but from sideways, if that makes any sense. You have to let it sneak in when you're in a reflective, meditationary mood. a lot of people on the list say it's their favourite. I'm not sure if it is, but couldn't tell you which one is. I think there are Joni albums for many different moods and that Hejira is for the melancholy, introspective mood. My mother used to think that anything by Joni sounded like a "dirge" - that was the very word she used. "What is that DIRGE?" Some people just don't get it, eh? ;-) Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums njc it occurs to me that my post has an overly strident tone to it. I apologize. Em - --- Em wrote: > yeah well you know what? the "magic" of albums went away with the > invention of the CD in a jewel case. > The writing, for example, on "Blue" EVEN ON THE VINYL ALBUM COVER is > tiny - on the CD, the letters are the size of stubble on a man's > morning beard. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:36:06 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I'm glad for the "controversy". Let me chime here and say, first of all, this latest bend on all things Hejira is a good thing! There's no right or wrong when it comes to your own personal taste. And that can change, as it did with me and Hejira. The first time I saw Hejira back in 1976.? For whatever reason, I didnt go there...it was so different from what I knew (Ladies, Blue, Court and spark). I was still in Joni kindergarten at the time. Years later, when I entered the hallowed halls of the jmdl aka the university of joni mitchell, with miles and ailes and chicken scratchin life beneath my feet, I was able to take it in. I hear it best when driving, and perhaps that's where I felll in love with Hejira. Sanctuary, refuge on the road and off. I will admit that it took me time to warm up to it, and now I love it. Mags in -29C Winterpeg ;-) Catherine McKay wrote: --- Bob Muller wrote: > > I didn't think I was saying anything that > controversial.> > > No need > to apologize - your opinion is valid and preferences > are what they are. It > sounds like you've certainly given them a fair > shake. While Hejira struck me > as being mystical & magical, I didn't really get it > until I listened to it > repeatedly. I've had times where Hejira bored the crap out of me and others where it's like a musical meditation. I don't think it's background music. It must be paid attention to, but from sideways, if that makes any sense. You have to let it sneak in when you're in a reflective, meditationary mood. a lot of people on the list say it's their favourite. I'm not sure if it is, but couldn't tell you which one is. I think there are Joni albums for many different moods and that Hejira is for the melancholy, introspective mood. My mother used to think that anything by Joni sounded like a "dirge" - that was the very word she used. "What is that DIRGE?" Some people just don't get it, eh? ;-) Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ***** ~all the windows of my heart, i open to this day~ ***** - --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:40:39 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: stamps of many countries <(PS. Bob, has Olivia ever covered Joni?) > Perhaps in concert, but not in the studio. Don't know of any connection. Bob _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:31:14 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: stamps of many countries Hey Bob. I was wondering if you have ever heard of a singer named, Wendy Matthews. She had her hey day in the late 80s, early 90s. She is Canadian born and made her name singing as a backing singer for Cher and Aretha Franklin before moving to Australia in the mid 80s. She sang with the bands here, Absent Friends and the Rockmelons before launching her solo career. She also sings on many TV commercials. She has one of the most beautiful voices I have ever heard and her style would suit Joni's music very well. I would love to hear her sing some of her songs. Have you heard of her and has she ever covered Joni? Mark in Sydney NP Chocolate Elvis - Tosca On 20/01/2007, at 2:40 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > <(PS. Bob, has Olivia ever covered Joni?) > > > Perhaps in concert, but not in the studio. Don't know of any > connection. > > Bob > > > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:17:18 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Mastering, and the loudness wars (NJC) Those of you who've spoken to our own Martin Giles about his day job as a mastering engineer, might have heard him moan about the requirements of artists and studios regarding the desire to "make it louder". There's a nice article here about the subject, from the Guardian online in the UK. http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1992325,00.html Not completely sure about the fact that the author blames modern digital technology: I'm pretty sure that analogue mastering kit is quite capable of squashing the dynamics out of music. Aside from that, the sentiment strikes me as spot on... Cheers, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:34:48 -0500 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I've been listening to DJRD almost exclusively this past year (over and above Joni's other works that is). So had to chime in and 'explain' why I love it so. I also just had it on vinyl and it went unplayed for many many years. Finally got it on disc and it's bringing me such pleasure. What I crave most from music is variety (being able to listen to a song 100 times and hearing something new each time), delicious chord progressions, and poetry. DJRD fulfills a lot of those cravings for me. But it definitely took a few listens. Didn't grasp Paprika Plains at first - it seemed self-indulgent and meandering. Now it brings tears to my eyes. Cotton Avenue and Talk to Me make me smile. Especially Talk to Me because I identify with it so much. I do regularly skip over Otis and Marlena and the 10th world. They just don't grab me and that's okay. The title track is so similar to Coyote musically but I don't mind. I feel free and soaring listening to it which I love. Off Night... and Silky Veils... are not lyrical masterpieces - I mean still pretty damn good in the context of pop music - but I love the chords. I spun Silky Veils over and over and over when I first got the disc. So for me DJRD is not near the top of her worst album lists. Not even close. I'm not sure what her 'worst' is. I know what I generally don't listen to. Still haven't gotten past the production on Dog Eat Dog or Taming of the Tiger, but it's on my list of things to do. I don't own Chalkmark, though I've heard it and don't feel called to go out and get it. But I know other people really like it (hi Kate). Jenny On 1/19/07, johnnybgoode@lineone.net wrote: > > Sorry All, > > I didn't think I was saying anything that controversial. > > Heijira in general has several nice tunes with memorable words that hit > home > emotionally. Song for Sharon, Coyote Amelia, and Black Crow for example. > They are longish, but not overblown. > > When I was digitising my Joni collection it was very high on the list > after > HOSL CAS Blue etc. I have never wanted to get the CD of DJRD and my double > vinyl is near mint, as I never want to play it, now matter how good the > playing > is on it. > > I probably just don't get it but what would others say was her worst > album, > DJRD must be up there or thereabouts. > > Perhaps someone could explain? > > Even the Beatles produced a relative turkey in Let it Be, and about one > third > of the White Album is pretty bad. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! > http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:41:20 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: njc,sign and height I share the same birthday which I will celebrate this year in Oliveria New York at Jonifest 2007 Paz On Jan 18, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Motitan@aol.com wrote: Oh and I share my birthday with Eric Clapton.... - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:10:53 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I love DJRD. But if I'm honest, I *love* bits of it to death, and skip other bits. For me, there's a couple of misses in Hejira too, but only a couple. I haven't posted this mix for a long time, but try this and see how you go:- Take the following from Hejira:- Coyote Amelia A Strange Boy Hejira Song For Sharon Black Crow Refuge Of The Roads Then the following from DJRD:- Cotton Avenue Talk To Me Jericho Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Off Night Backstreet Ram all that lot on one CD (it fits) then listen end to end. There may be track orderings that work better than the default, but I don't know. I'll be the first to admit that the aspect that ties it all together is Jaco, but all the tracks seem to fit so well, it seems all of a piece. Be interested to know if this works as well for others as it does for me, i.e. all the "good stuff" from both Hejira and DJRD. Ramble over... - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:02:59 -0800 (PST) From: Norma Jean Garza Subject: Re: Herjia a Dirge ??? My youngest brother, Billy Joe, who's 33 years old, has issues with females he dates. Now listen to this--if they don't get Joni's lyrics, he just won't have any serious relationship with them. I know what he's going to say, every time he casually meets a girl. He asks, "Have you ever heard of Joni Mitchell?" Depending on what they say, he'll either tell them about Joni, or he elaborates on her lyrics, if they've heard of Joni. He was especially proud about the letter to Chief Seattle. He wrote a commentary about the letter on the ExpressNews and he got both praise and he was also told he belonged in a sanatorium--but the important matter, is that he DID get the message through. He loves what Larry Klein wrote, when he said that Joni wrote the lyrics as if she wrote them with her own blood. Oh my God, for him, that was a powerful sensation. Now, this is Billy Joe. "Norma Jean, this girl is real nice and educated, but she just can't get Joni Mitchell. So, I don't feel comfortable with her." Or he'll say, "This girl can understand Joni, but she doesn't make the effort to focus on what Joni Mitchell is saying." This last girl he's dating studies Joni between her nursing classes. nj PS His three little girls, Jerrica, Mika and Aja Blue(for Steely Dan and Joni) all know Joni's music by heart. Of course, they love the songs about childhood. They mostly listen to 'Hits and Misses' over and over and over! And of course, my mother tells us, "I'm going to be listening to Joni Mitchell until my dying day." And I say, "Mom, I'm going to play Joni Mitchell when you die." She says, "Alright, play the one about the seasons going round and round." Then, I cry, like I'm doing now. - --- Andeemac2006 wrote: > Its the first time I have heard one of the most > wonderfull albums to ever > be made and released called a Dirge LOL, Try try try > to read the lyrics > to the songs on Hejira, I know its difficult these > days with crappy Jewel > Box's to contend with but try and read the lyrics > from the Joni mitchell > site while listening to the music,and appreaciate > the art form of her > lyric writing , particullary this Album. For me the > interplay of Jaco > and Joni is a wonder to behold on this album. I > would go to far as say > that Refuge of the Roads is my ultimate perfect song > in all its > atributes, the imaging of the lyrics is amazing, > just read the lyrics, I > thought Hejira was a dirge the first time, then it > clicked and I have > never looked back > ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:03:39 -0500 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter chris, that is almost exactly the mix i would make from those two records. i think i will make it actually. good idea! i would add 'silky veils' if it fit, even though it's acoustic. it would be lovely way to end and it flows nicely from 'off night' - i think they must be the same tuning. jen On 1/19/07, Chris Marshall wrote: > > I love DJRD. But if I'm honest, I *love* bits of it to death, and skip > other bits. For me, there's a couple of misses in Hejira too, but > only a couple. > > I haven't posted this mix for a long time, but try this and see how > you go:- > > Take the following from Hejira:- > > Coyote > Amelia > A Strange Boy > Hejira > Song For Sharon > Black Crow > Refuge Of The Roads > > Then the following from DJRD:- > > Cotton Avenue > Talk To Me > Jericho > Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > Off Night Backstreet > > Ram all that lot on one CD (it fits) then listen end to end. > > There may be track orderings that work better than the default, > but I don't know. > > I'll be the first to admit that the aspect that ties it all > together is Jaco, but all the tracks seem to fit so well, > it seems all of a piece. > > Be interested to know if this works as well for others > as it does for me, i.e. all the "good stuff" from both > Hejira and DJRD. > > Ramble over... > > --Chris Marshall > > chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) > > "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" > Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" > Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:17:21 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: stamps of many countries No & no. Looks like she has done plenty of covers, and she has a song called "All I Need", so she's pretty close, but no Joni covers that I can see. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Stalin Malone" _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:17:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums njc Did not. I agreed with everything you wrote. I never had good eyesight to begin with. Add middle-age and the advent of bifocals onto that and it's fecking impossible to read that stuff. It's like trying to read the ingredients on a bottle of medicine. I have to take my glass OFF and put the CD cover right in front of ONE eye in order to read what it says. And that gives me a headache or makes me feel queasy in the stomach. I'd be interested to know if younger people (i.e., those who haven't hit that middle-age-got-to-wear-reading-glasses-or-bifocals stage and/or who have 20/20 vision) can read the stuff. If THEY can't read it, it makes you wonder why they bother putting all that stuff in there. LPs were definitely better for the reading material! - --- Em wrote: > it occurs to me that my post has an overly strident > tone to it. I > apologize. > Em > > --- Em wrote: > > > yeah well you know what? the "magic" of albums > went away with the > > invention of the CD in a jewel case. > > The writing, for example, on "Blue" EVEN ON THE > VINYL ALBUM COVER is > > tiny - on the CD, the letters are the size of > stubble on a man's > > morning beard. > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:31:53 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: njc,sign and height Yes, but how tall are you? Victor On Jan 19, 2007, at 12:41 PM, Michael Paz wrote: > I share the same birthday which I will celebrate this year in > Oliveria New York at Jonifest 2007 > > Paz > > On Jan 18, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Motitan@aol.com wrote: > > Oh and I share my birthday with Eric Clapton.... > -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:04:00 +0000 From: johnnybgoode@lineone.net Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Chris, I've relistened to DJRD for the first time in years, and Yes these are the most listenable tracks. Whether I will re buy it to burn the hybrid is another matter. Jaco is too influential, unlike on SAL. Jericho is the stand out track because it is already known from MoA. If she had an adequate amount of material why did she rerecord Jericho? John ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:12:28 +0100 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: njc,sign and height I'm 5' 3" and I am a Leo. I share my birthday with Barack Obama and the Queen Mum :) moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:25:07 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Joni archive at CBC It was really nice to watch Joni pick up the guitar and do a little ditty. Really enjoyed that clip, as well as all the others on cbc! I guess I can't call it nostalgia coz' I'm not of an older age, but it gave me warm feelings of how important Joni's music is to me. amelio747 www.myspace.com/parkertristan >From: LCStanley7@aol.com >Reply-To: LCStanley7@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org, lesirvin@gmail.com >Subject: Re: Joni archive at CBC >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:55:07 EST > >In a message dated 1/18/07 2:08:06 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org writes: > > > > http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-68-2462/arts_entertainment/joni_mitchell/ > > > >Wow... thanks Les. > >When they gave Joni back the first guitar she ever played, I could relate >to >the feeling of coming full circle with a guitar like this. A few years >ago, >I got the first one I played back too. My cousin in Florida found it in >the >attic of the house my aunt had just sold. He was making one more check >through to see if they had gotten everything. He was surprised to find >the >guitar. An old Epiphone. > >He asked me if I had left a guitar there, and I said not that I know of but >I'd be glad for him to send it to me. Nobody else in our family plays. >When >I saw the guitar, I couldn't believe it... it was the first guitar I played >as a child about 10 years old in Port Huron, Michigan. I was too small to >comfortably hold it upright back then so I put it across my lap, and the >first >time I strummed it, it was magical... a moment frozen in time for me. It >stayed at my grandfather's house, and I went home to Nebraska and played >violin >which was what my mother wanted me to play, but I longed to play guitar. > >I couldn't believe it came back to me after so many years. My grandfather >from Port Huron must have brought it to Florida years ago along with a lot >of >other "relics" he gave my aunt. On the sticker inside it has "Kalamazoo, >Michigan." The guitar still sounds good after years of being in the attic >in >Florida which is another miracle. > >Love and gratitude, >Laura _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving  check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:36:32 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: RE: MP3's/Janis Ian I think if someone truly appreciates an artists input, they will buy the album. Especially with Joni. However, I'm not opposed to mp3's. I've discovered a lot of good artists up and down the road via the net. Lets face it, all the best music doesn't get radio play does it? I can't see a problem wiith downloading a few songs by an artist and then deciding if you want to invest in the album. That way, the album sells on it's own merits. The uk singles chart is virtually non existant nowa' days because of the explosion of mp3's. I think this shows what a state pop music is in rather than showing mp3's being destructive to music itself. This is a really interesting, though indepth article by Janis Ian, published a few years a go which relates to all this mp3 business: http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html amelio747 www.myspace.com/parkertristan >From: Motitan@aol.com >Reply-To: Motitan@aol.com >To: normajeanne1957@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Travelogue/Downloading/Albums >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:09:45 EST > >art work is 'Travelogue.' I say this to Monika and the >new fans. Joni's music has to purchased, because it >would be a sin of art not to. Joni's music is not for >downloads >---------------------------------------- >I was at this store that I really like last weekend that sells incense, >music, some hippie-ish clothes, beads, etc. and I strolled over to the "M" >section and they had Travelogue there. I am interested in Joni's artwork. > I like >what I've seen on her album covers so far. I don't know art per se but I >can >appreciate beauty. I read a more recent interview with Joni and she said >something to the extent that no one takes her art seriously so she doesn't >take >it seriously either anymore and right off I thought, "aww Joni you don't >really mean that man, come on now." I mean it's one thing to have one >talent/passion but to have two?!? Damn. Keep at it man. And as far as >downloading, >I just don't get those people who have a shitload of burnt cds. I love, >love, LOVE cds. I love owning them! I love knowing that I'm giving money > to >the artist who made it so in a way encouraging them to make more albums! >I >love when the words on printed in the insert. I love the insert >itself--the >pictures, the listing of the musicians, any notes the artist makes. I >love >covers! God I love it all so much that I detest Ipods and all that crap. >It's >so cold....and impersonal....there's no connection there...you just >download >whatever at random and lose the magic of albums. I love the art of the >album. > I love that an artist works at putting a suitable album together the way >they want it to be heard. WHY TAKE THAT AWAY YOU CRUEL IPODS?!?!?!?! I'm >sorry. I'm in a silly mood tonight but I am dead serious about liking >albums for >what they are. >-Monika >P.S. Is anyone bothered by my long posts? I'm sorry if I write too much. >It's an eyeful....hahaha _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:48:21 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: saw America! Hi. I know there are some America fans in this group, so I want to report that I saw America for the 2nd time... It was a fun concert, a lot of people were there. I was probably one of the youngest people there.( I tend to like music from before my time) America played all their hits... "A horse with no name" was the encore song... I got really drunk, which was fun, but the hangover wasn't much fun... _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #22 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------