From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #463 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, December 6 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 463 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: stephane dion NJC canadian content for Cat [Catherine McKay ] RE : new cd & shows from awesome Chapel Hill band (njc) [Joseph Palis ] Re: "River" - the most exquisite expression of seasonal affective disorder -- njc [Smurf ] Subject: Re: "Borat"-extremely funny movie! NJC [Bryan ] Re: NJC gay marriage... [Jerry Notaro ] Re: simpler times njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC gay marriage... ["Cassy" ] Re: njc, Al Gore on the Today Show ["Cassy" ] Re: NJC gay marriage... [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC gay marriage... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Who do you think Joni wrote River for? ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: So what about that Stephane Dion? njc ["Michael O'Malley" ] Re: NJC gay marriage... ["Bree Mcdonough" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:37:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: stephane dion NJC canadian content for Cat - --- mags h wrote: > now I am waiting for our premier to step up to the > plate and claim the Canadian Prairies a nation > within a nation :-PPP I am just kidding.... > Every now and then (mostly under the last provincial govt though), some politician in Toronto proposes that Toronto withdraw from Ontario and declare itself a city-state. Then there was the comedian (but I don't remember who it was, but likely not Rick Mercer) who asked a bunch of what-if questions - like, what if the Cree within Quebec were a nation within a nation within a nation? and what if the gay Cree in Quebec declared themselves a gay nation within a Cree nation within a Quebec nation within a Canadian nation. And so on. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:48:52 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: njc "Borat"-extremly funny movie! Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 23:05:30 -0800 From: "Richard Goldman" Subject: Re: "Borat"-extremly funny movie! [ABSOLUTELY NJC] I may be in the minority, but I found this Sacha Baron Cohen endeavor juvenile, and somewhat boring. Maybe I'm a jaded San Francisco queer, but for me there was nothing even remotely as funny and Candid Camera-esque as he tried to be. His character became annoying, and redundant, his side-kick irrelevant, and there was way too much filler between 'reality' scenes. Wait for the DVD, if I were you. ~Richard - --------------- Hi Richard, maybe you are a jaded San Francisco queer, but you are nothing as negative about Baron-Cohen as I am! I have never liked this sense of humour. I don't think there is anything surprising or scary or revealing about people's reactions, and I find it somehow sadistic the way he manipulates them into awkward situations. I find that the manipulation is a double one, because he also manages to manipulate his audience to think that this is funny. He makes cowboys sing songs about jews, and then he makes us laugh about it. He embarrasses a couple by saying the wife is not attractive, but they lack the courage to tell him to fuck of, and we are supposed to laugh? It's clever but I think it's wrong! He sweeps his audience away the same way he tricks people. I have to say, uhm, that I have only watched a few episodes of Da Ali G, and seen trailers from Borat on TV. It was enough to make me not want to see the film. I have been wanting to hear what people on this list would think, I've had this feeling that SURELY they won't like it... but if they do maybe I should go.....? But I watched Shortbus this Friday and was very impressed! There are weak points at places in the story, but well done!! Bene Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:00:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Borat"-extremly funny movie! njc - - - --- Randy Remote wrote: > From: "anon anon" > > > If you're looking to laugh a lot, I definatly > recommend this movie... > > It contains some really funny scenes... > > The funniest movie I've seen in some time, and a > little scary in what it > reveals...the scene in the RV with the college jerks > for instance, or > the redneck at the rodeo who wants to string up all > the queers. > No Joni content, though. > RR > I kept wondering if those people were for real, or just actors. I'm inclined to think they were for real and RR you are right - it is very scary the things that people will say with a camera on them. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:48:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "River" - the most exquisite expression of seasonal affective disorder - --- kjhsf@aol.com wrote: > Yes, the original does transend all the covers of > "River". There is something about Joni's voice--I > remember hearing her talk about the "thumbprint" of > her voice being a very melancholy instrument. > > Seems like once every Holiday Season, I have a > little melt-down and tear up while hearing River, > usually while driving alone in my car. [...] > Anyone else experience this at the Holidays? > Yes, for sure, and not just at the holidays, although I think that brings it out more, since it's a time when you are more likely to get together with family and you can't help but think of Christmases past and notice those who are no longer with us, and how those who are still here have changed. I feel like only last year, I was a kid and now I still have a hard time believing that I'm middle-aged - or is it old? When is middle-age? I'm usually at my lowest point when I first get up in the morning. If I'm going to have one of those weepy times, that's usually the time because it's the only time I really have to myself - before the kids get up (although the cats are already yowling for their breakfast.) When I had a car, I would sometimes get teary in the car too - not a good thing for driving! Music is certainly conducive to bringing back memories, both happy and sad, and the tears are sometimes tears of joy but often it's more like melancholy. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:00:32 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: RE: Banquet, now njc and Chicago Bree wrote: >But no mention of macaroni and cheese and pinto beans? Patti...how >scrumptious... our holiday meals are always a mixture of midwest..and >southern ...enjoy....how could you not.... > >Bree > Thanks Bree, but how could I not? If I'm not there! I will be in Chicago, just having taken my baggage off the carousel and a taxi into town with my youngest son. We will be staying with my older son and having a lovely mother and child reunion. I can't wait. This will be special. (NPIMH: "Silver bells, silver bells, it's Christmas time in the city...." and concurrently: "Night in the city looks pretty to me, night in the city looks fine, music comes spilling out into the streets, colors go waltzing in time....") Does anyone have any "must sees" in Chicago? I want to go to the Art Institute for sure. We'll have to bundle up our overcoasts, because I hear it's 15 degrees out there. Come in from the cold.....brrrrrr! And in the both sides now of things, I will also be sending up prayers for Jack and his family and friends. It was while I was sitting at my son's computer (outside of Chicago) last July that I got the shocking news of his passing. Maybe Chris will let me play his CD again as we drive throught the Land of the Tolls. Love, Patti P., NPIMH: CSNY's Chicago (LOL...hope one brother won't gag and bound the other!) _________________________________________________________________ View Athletes Collections with Live Search http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:16:46 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: "River" - the most exquisite Ken shared: Seems like once every Holiday Season, I have a little melt-down and tear up while hearing River, usually while driving alone in my car. It happened last Sunday night after a day of travel with my mom and sister and niece to see my grandma in her nursing home. All day long, the tension kept building--the long drive to youngstown, the sadness of saying goodbye to grandma even though we would rather have her with us at home, the stress of traveling with family... After I dropped everyone off at the end this long, emotional day, I was driving home in the dark and River was on and I had a little sob, then dried my eyes and felt that bit of cathartic relief. Anyone else experience this at the Holidays? ******* Oh, yes. "Over and over and over again, my friend...." at River (which, like Catherine said, is like a sigh), and you know there may be more! John and Yoko's "Happy Xmas/War is Over" reduces me to tears every single time. Sending up prayers for your family, especially your grandma, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 05:14:31 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: Re: stephane dion NJC canadian content for Cat in my silliness, that's what I was getting at. When situations like the nation within a nation arise, it feels to me like further divisiveness, which is a concern. I would like to hear from Michael in Quebec..perhaps we should start a little side list about Canadian poliitics ;-)) (hi Loori ;-)) Speaking of great Canadians, I have a wonderful story to share about Tom Jackson....which I will talk about later in the day, for now, I must, as Paz says, geaux. Mags..writing in the dark Catherine McKay wrote: - --- mags h wrote: > now I am waiting for our premier to step up to the > plate and claim the Canadian Prairies a nation > within a nation :-PPP I am just kidding.... > Every now and then (mostly under the last provincial govt though), some politician in Toronto proposes that Toronto withdraw from Ontario and declare itself a city-state. Then there was the comedian (but I don't remember who it was, but likely not Rick Mercer) who asked a bunch of what-if questions - like, what if the Cree within Quebec were a nation within a nation within a nation? and what if the gay Cree in Quebec declared themselves a gay nation within a Cree nation within a Quebec nation within a Canadian nation. And so on. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:32:08 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Al Gore on the Today Show Did anyone catch Matt Lauer's interview with Al Gore this morning? Sigh. If only he had become President in 2000, what a wonderful world this would be.....or at least less of a disaster. The war and global warming. Sigh. HUGE. Gore said that many of us knew that this war would be a catastrophe (I remember that headline in Le Nouvel Observateur way back when...) and that there are (duh!) no easy answers. The worst mistake in American history, I think he said. But there is still time to do something about global warming. Matt Lauer seemed (IMO) to almost beg him to run again in 2008. Gore sounds like he won't, but won't rule it out. Lauer said something like "if you did, you could save the planet!" Maybe the rest of us can help a little. For our children, and their children (even if we go a year without having any, to give Lori her wish....) Please, if you are so inclined, go to www.algore.com, where you will see the message I am pasting below as a P.S., and you know..... Love and peace, Patti P., an emailing dervish ce matin! NPIMH (still): Chicago (we can change the world, rearrange the world....it's dying....to get better) P.S. (from Al Gore): I've been incredibly gratified by the response to An Inconvenient Truth. I'm extremely proud of all the work the team put into the film and it feels like it came at a crucial time. But now comes the hard work. We have to take this message to Washington. And we can't do it without you. Yes, the new majority in Congress will be much more receptive on the importance of global warming. That's the good news. But I know from personal experience that the only thing that will make Washington really take notice and do more than give lip service to the problem of global warming is the prospect of millions of committed citizens taking action. It's time to join together and make that happen. Can you help? First, I'm asking folks to hold house parties, in thousands of homes across the nation, to show the film and spread the word. We're doing the first wave on Saturday, December 16. Can you host a party? Or attend a party that one of your neighbors is hosting? Second, I'm asking everybody, whether you attend a party or not, to sign a postcard to your representatives, so that I can take a million postcards and messages to Washington in January and present them to the new Congress. We have to build the political will to do what has to be done. Luckily, in America, political will is a renewable resource. Thank you, - -Al Gore P.P.S. from PP: Power to the People! Power to the people right now! _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:36:38 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : new cd & shows from awesome Chapel Hill band (njc) Thanks for the info, Victor. They are playing at The Cave on Jan 20 and I will definitely be there. The Cave is living up to its name as a darkened place that is more subterranean than most concert places here in Chapel Hill but I go there on Tuesday nights because of their singer/songwriter night. You should perform there too when you are in town. I can hook you up to the owner of the place who is a kindly guy but who sings in that politically acerbic way that is always refreshing to my ears. One quick check at WXYC's music library revealed two albums on vinyl from Nikki Meets the Hibachi ("Hanna's Amorphous Hat" and "The Bluest Sky") and I will play their music next Wednesday during my show. Heard of Bombadil? They are also based in Chapel Hill and I like them a lot. Hard to categorize their music: part Asobi Seksu-shoegaze music and part Roman Candle. Me like. Thanks for the heads-up as per always. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Wang Changcun "Grand Hotel" waytoblue@comcast.net a icrit : My friends from Carolina, John and Elaine, reformed their band, Nikki Meets the Hibachi, recently and have come out with a new cd. I am going to see them at Eddies Attic in Atlanta on Dec. 16 and they're also playing in Chapel Hill (Joseph, you should check them out!) on Jan 20. Their new cd is called "Back Around". They can be found at Nikkimeetsthehibachi.com as well as cdbaby. I used to go see them all the time when I was going to Guilford. Victor, tired and looking forward to going home - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:46:25 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Banquet, now njc and Chicago - --- Patti Parlette wrote: > I will be in Chicago, just having taken my baggage > off the carousel and a > taxi into town with my youngest son. We will be > staying with my older son > and having a lovely mother and child reunion. Is she allowed to quote Paul Simon on the Joni Mitchell list? Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 05:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: "River" - the most exquisite expression of seasonal affective disorder -- njc - --- Catherine wrote: > I still have a hard time > believing that I'm middle-aged - or is it old? Oh, Catherine, Catherine, Catherine . . . Please. I am trying to be a better person. XO, - --Smurf ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:03:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "River" - the most exquisite expression of seasonal affective disorder -- njc - --- Smurf wrote: > Please. I am trying to be a better person. > Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!! Baiting Smurf can be such fun! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:12:33 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: simpler times njc Simplify things?!?!?!? WTF? Hmmm, I guess I don't understand the logic - isn't it pretty much the same thing as the silly gas boycotts where someone says "let's shut the oil companies down and nobody buy gas for this day" sort of concept? And if you don't buy gas that day, you will the next day, or the next, so the net effect is the same. Conventional wisdom says that if there were NO births in 2007, they would likely double in 2008 to compensate, and then you'd have SERIOUS problems. Firstly, imagine the devastation in our economy if the baby business went defunct for a year - all those resources would have to shift somewhere else, and then ramp up TWICE OVER to handle the 2008 Uber-baby boom. That massive wave of babies would have far-reaching ripple effects that would be almost impossible to cope with. It would truly have armageddon-like consequences. Your evangelical pals might be happy, but it would truly be chaos for the rest of us if your wish came true. Bob NP: - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:38:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc "Borat"-extremly funny movie! Richard Goldman wrote: > I may be in the minority, but I found this Sacha > Baron Cohen endeavor > juvenile, and somewhat boring. - --- missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > Hi Richard, > > maybe you are a jaded San Francisco queer, but you > are nothing as > negative about Baron-Cohen as I am! > > I have never liked this sense of humour. I don't > think there is > anything surprising or scary or revealing about > people's reactions, > and I find it somehow sadistic the way he > manipulates them into > awkward situations. I find that the manipulation is > a double one, > because he also manages to manipulate his audience > to think that this > is funny. He makes cowboys sing songs about jews, > and then he makes us > laugh about it. He embarrasses a couple by saying > the wife is not > attractive, but they lack the courage to tell him to > fuck of, and we > are supposed to laugh? It's clever but I think it's > wrong! He sweeps > his audience away the same way he tricks people. > > I have to say, uhm, that I have only watched a few > episodes of Da Ali > G, and seen trailers from Borat on TV. It was enough > to make me not > want to see the film. > > I have been wanting to hear what people on this list > would think, I've > had this feeling that SURELY they won't like it... > but if they do > maybe I should go.....? > I was a bit surprised that some of the people he dealt with didn't react more strongly and negatively than they did. A number of them were very tolerant of his weirdness. At times, I was sure that some of the characters knew very well it was a put-on and just went along with it. I thought the driving instructor was extremely patient, but the frat boys had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I found the dinner party scene very uncomfortable. I've never seen Da Ali G show, but I had seen little clips of Cohen as the Borat character and found him extremely annoying. Between that and the positive things a lot of critics had to say about the film, I wasn't really sure I wanted to go. He was either going to be the extremely annoying character I had seen in short clips, or the film was going to be disappointing because it had been built up so much in advance. In the end, it fell a bit between. I wouldn't call it extremely funny but it had its moments. The fact that I went with my 16-yr-old son probably meant I laughed more than I might have otherwise because I know what makes him laugh. And yet, you have to have the serious discussion afterwards about some of the scenes so that he gets why it's supposed to be funny and that he's mocking certain types of characters, and the issue of his doing this stuff to people without their apparently being aware that this was going to be put up there on the big screen for everyone to see. There were definitely squirmy moments, when I wasn't sure whether laughing was really the right thing to do. I'm very uncomfortable with the "candid camera" idea of filming people doing things that will embarass them later. There's a Canadian comedian/political satirist by the name of Rick Mercer who did some shows called "Talking to Americans". He would go to various American cities and talk to them about Canadian things that were supposed to be true but which were to most people, I hope, completely ridiculous. He would refer to our former Primer Minister, Jean Chretien, as Jean Poutine (poutine is a gross combination of potato, cheese and gravy that is popular in Quebec). He would have people sign petitions that were obviously ridiculous - for example, a petition that would stop the practice of Canadians leaving their elderly on ice floes to die, or banning the rhinoceros hunt in Saskatoon. It looks to me as if people that he talks to are aware that it's a joke and that they're just going along with it, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I love Mercer's current show, but "Talking to Americans" kind of makes me squirm. I wouldn't go to see "Borat" again and my suggestion is, if you haven't seen it but are thinking about it, you're better off just waiting for the video - but then again, I'm cheap to begin with and I resent the high cost of going to see movies, hate stepping on sticky floors from people spilling sugary drinks and the smell of popcorn makes me feel ill. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:32:36 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: njc "Borat"-extremly funny movie! I don't know who Sacha Cohen is but I'd watch "Sasha Cohen" all day...:) Victor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Catherine McKay > Richard Goldman wrote: > > I may be in the minority, but I found this Sacha > > Baron Cohen endeavor > > juvenile, and somewhat boring. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:40:39 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: njc "Borat"-extremly funny movie! err.... this one http://www.sashacohen.com/? You'd like to skate away with her...? I like your comments, Catherine! As always, it seems...! Benedicte On 12/6/06, waytoblue@comcast.net wrote: > I don't know who Sacha Cohen is but I'd watch "Sasha Cohen" all day...:) > > Victor > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Catherine McKay > > Richard Goldman wrote: > > > I may be in the minority, but I found this Sacha > > > Baron Cohen endeavor > > > juvenile, and somewhat boring. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:08:36 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Songs Ever Written In a message dated 12/5/06 3:13:13 AM, > "Kate Bennett" > Subject: 99 best songs ever written > Hey, thanks for reminding me, Kate. I immediately put my vote in after reading your note on the list. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:01:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc, Peace signs during the holidays Cool idea! I want a peace wreath for my door! Can you imagine the twisted ignorance that lies within a mind that sees the desire for peace as something from the devil? >Bill Trimarco and Lisa Jensen were threatened with fines by their neighborhood homeowners' association unless they stopped displaying an evergreen holiday wreath in the shape of the familiar divided circle from the '60s. Some board members said the symbol was divisive. Another took it to be a sign of the devil. Humbug.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:01:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc, Peace signs during the holidays Cool idea! I want a peace wreath for my door! Can you imagine the twisted ignorance that lies within a mind that sees the desire for peace as something from the devil? >Bill Trimarco and Lisa Jensen were threatened with fines by their neighborhood homeowners' association unless they stopped displaying an evergreen holiday wreath in the shape of the familiar divided circle from the '60s. Some board members said the symbol was divisive. Another took it to be a sign of the devil. Humbug.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:15:23 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: "River" - the most exquisite expression of seasonal affective disorder njc now Hi ken, thanks for unlurking. So sorry about your grandma. That is so hard. Yes, even here in beautiful sunny California this happens. I cried the other night while hugging my sweet doggie... I know she is getting older & I don't want her to (& so we're getting another to hopefully keep her young- a rescue husky 1 year old or so- she's a husky mix). It is such a tough time of year. I enjoy the trees & the lights & all but hate going anywhere near the mall where I had to go last night. The commercialism has overtaken the holiday (I know big revelation there) & music they play is abysmal. Last weekend we attended the sweetest old fashioned Christmas event at a town nearby some jokingly call Mayberry. The shops were open & serving cider & cookies & the town folk was just milling about & visiting with each other. The big event was a little girl dressed like an angel being lifted up to 'light' the chrismas tree in the center of the town. It was like going back in time to the Music Man (with the school band playing in the green). We felt like we were in an old movie. Lovely. A simpler saner celebration. Bree you'd love it. >After I dropped everyone off at the end this long, emotional day, I was driving home in the dark and River was on and I had a little sob, then dried my eyes and felt that bit of cathartic relief. Anyone else experience this at the Holidays? Back to Lurkdom Ken< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:20:27 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... On abortion...they want it to go back to the states. Thinking is.. that The United States Supreme Court overstepped back in 1973. Gay marriage..yes you are right...many conservatives think it is wrong... but don't want an amendment added to the Constitution. Some do. But we have a long way to go ..Jerry..because well over seventy percent of people in this country..not just conservatives.. are NOT for same-sex marriage. They want it preserved between a man and a woman. I've always said people fear what they don't understand. I'm a lesbian.. so it's as natural as the weather for me to love women...and want to commit to one ...one special one...for all my life. Many straights discount.. to some degree this...they don't think gays could have the level of commitment that they do...on and on. We all know the divorce rate...well over fifty percent...sounds like their commitments aren't so rock solid after all. In the Catholic church it's called the Sacrament of Marriage...it is Jesus Christ who unites this man and woman. Not to be taken lightly...but many people do. Again...I don't think it is God who has problem with people committing....any people.. Bree >And yet they want constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage and >abortions. I guess it's pick and choose not screwing with the Constitution. > >Jerry > > > > Yes....well..and no.... > > > > Conservatives don't want what the "framers" set up to be screwed with... > > it's worked.. somehow ..all these two hundred plus years....if it's not > > broken don't fix it ..kind of deal. Religion..no...but some absolutes >not > > to be dickered with...the individual is sovereign and the state is > > subordinate..we loan some of our sovereignty to the state....only >society in > > history to have this as it's historical base...... True > > conservatives...many have lost sight..I will admit..want less > > government...less regulations.... > > > > For instance... > > > > Regulations...the other night I heard Newt Gingrich talking about > > environmental regulations.....and how it took 22 years to add a runway >in > > Atlanta. He's all for sound environmental controls...but to drag out > > developments and the expense that comes from that....in other words >..the > > goal is good...but let's look at the regulations and find ways to free >up > > development..but at the same time keeping most of the environmental > > standards in place. > > > > Seems like we want the same thing..."live and let live"...... > > > > Bree > > > >> On the right hand, the "conservatives" believe that if there were just >more > >> structure, more religion, more adherence to some set of rules (in other > >> words, if everyone knew their places and stayed in those places), life > >> would > >> be simple and "sane" again. > >> > >> Yes? No? Comments? > >> > >> Just stirring the pot, > >> > >> Lori > >> Santa Rosa, CA > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by >style, > > age, and price. Try it! > > >http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcod > > e=wlmtagline _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:35:56 -0800 (PST) From: Bryan Subject: Subject: Re: "Borat"-extremely funny movie! NJC Subject: Re: "Borat"-extremly funny movie! NJC I'm looking forward to seeing it. I always loved the Borat segments of Da Ali G show. I think I will wait for the DVD though - so I can laugh like a hyiena (sp?) in my own living room and spew my beverage freely through my nose. Em That was my reaction to Borat, pretty much (though I'm not sure anything came out of my nose). The humor, offensiveness and crudeness (I don't normally dig crudeness), were so far over the top...I was at times doubled-over with laughter. Way more out there than I expected. Bryan - --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:38:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bryan Subject: Holidays down south NJC From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com And hey, speaking of SC & Christmas, this is a great story ripped from today's Greenville News. My co-worker Patricia was there, in fact her husband was driving a John Deere tractor in the parade and was passed by this truck. http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006612050370 Ya'll really know how to party down there. Bryan - --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:00:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... It's not a matter of what anybody wants or don't want. The statement you made was that conservatives don't want to change the constitution as a tenant of conservatism. And I claim that is untrue. Besides, do we really want the majority legislating the rights of the minority? Jerry > On abortion...they want it to go back to the states. Thinking is.. that > The United States Supreme Court overstepped back in 1973. Gay > marriage..yes you are right...many conservatives think it is wrong... but > don't want an amendment added to the Constitution. Some do. But we > have a long way to go ..Jerry..because well over seventy percent of people > in this country..not just conservatives.. are NOT for same-sex marriage. > They want it preserved between a man and a woman. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:26:30 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: simpler times njc > Conventional wisdom says that if there were NO births in 2007, they would likely double in > 2008 to compensate, and then you'd have SERIOUS problems. Firstly, imagine the > devastation in our economy if the baby business went defunct for a year - all those > resources would have to shift somewhere else, and then ramp up TWICE OVER to handle > the 2008 Uber-baby boom. That massive wave of babies would have far-reaching ripple > effects that would be almost impossible to cope with. What conventional wisdom? Is this idea being discussed somewhere else? I must be entirely missing the parenting gene, because I can't fathom the urge to hurry up and have two babies next year to make up for the one I didn't have this year. As for the baby business going defunct ... There might be a dent in the infant segment for that year, but the entire thing wouldn't go defunct. Businesspeople -- in any business -- have great survival instincts, and they would will figure out a way to make up for those temporarily missing bucks. I'm sure of it. Regarding my evangelical pals, I don't have any. I try to stay far away from those types. : ) Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:32:24 -0500 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... From: "Bree Mcdonough" <<< well over seventy percent of people in this country..not just conservatives.. are NOT for same-sex marriage. They want it preserved between a man and a woman. >>> I am going to weigh in with my opinion on a hot political topic for a change. In my way of thinking the biggest issue is the insurance lobby... they don't want to provide benefits to same sex partners it would lessen their profit margin. Same thing for the government, they don't want to pay Social Security benefits to same sex partners either. It's an economical thing just as much as, if not more than, a moral belief thing. Personally, I believe that if we find someone to love and to love us it makes no difference if they stand up or sit down to pee. Love is one of those resources that won't ever be used up and we need to proliferate all the love we can. Cassy NP: Ani DiFranco and Amee Mann - When Doves Cry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:45:03 -0500 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: njc, Al Gore on the Today Show From: "Patti Parlette" <<< Did anyone catch Matt Lauer's interview with Al Gore this morning? >>> No, I don't watch Oprah every day, but I do make it a point to watch those shows of interest to me and though I didn't catch Al Gore's interview with Matt Lauer i did watch him on Oprah the other day... He discussed his movie "An Inconvenient Truth" with charts and maps and visualizations of potential disasters. I suspect he is going to take a run at the 2008 presidential race based on the activitiy I'm seeing on his web site and his recent public appearances which seem to be geared to putting his name on the lips of the populace. http://www.algore04.com/ Warmly, Cassy NP: Delirium - Metamorphasis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:04:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: well over > seventy percent of people > in this country..not just conservatives.. are NOT > for same-sex marriage. which, if it's a valid poll, doesn't necessarily mean they're AGAINST it. Many of these could be people who don't give it a lot of thought, and maybe it has to do with how the question is asked, which is why I usually refuse to participate in surveys or polls. I don't know if the US population sorts itself out the way the Canadian one does (I suspect there would be more polarity there) but, when they ask people here, there are some that are totally against, others that believe that it's an aboluste right that gays should have equally with straights, but the vast majority don't care one way or another - it's a sort of live-and-let-live attitude. I'd be looking at that as NOT AGAINST rather than NOT FOR. Of course, we don't have the same percentage of fundamentalists up here as you do. > Again...I don't think it is God who has problem > with people > committing....any people.. > Well, I have to agree with you there! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:47:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > others that > believe that it's an aboluste right While there may be lust or lustre involved, I wasn't into the Absolut. I meant to type "absolute". You probably figured that out already, but just the same... Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:31:04 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Who do you think Joni wrote River for? Michael, you also make a good point! I think it's natural to think and write in composites. All your similar memories come back to you. This is what I love about Joni. I can play her music from a particular album and instantly relate to the experience. Court and Spark always seems to touch base with me when it comes to a broken heart or memories of unrequieted love. However, River really speaks to my heart in the same way. I am probably one of the few Joni amigos who has never heard all of her works. I plan on spending the rest of my life discovering her music. Sherelle >From: Michael Flaherty: > >In a message dated 12/4/2006 3:01:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >sherellesmith@hotmail.com writes: > > >Based on her deep relationship with Graham >Nash (I think), I was wondering if this song was written about him. Just >curious... > >I find that a composite is always the best guess with Joni. > >Based on some things she's said about James Taylor, he's very likely to be >the one who loved her so naughty it made her weak in the knees. :) > >Michael Flaherty >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >http://new.mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: simpler times njc Here's what I meant, and of course it's purely hypothetical and won't happen, but... Let's just say that they indeed pass a law and no one gives birth in 2007. Come 2008, you have all the folks who would have had a baby in 2007 but couldn't, plus all the folks who were going to have a baby in 2008 regardless, so the net effect is the same, it's the same number of births all concentrated in a shorter span of time. The only ones you're less are the families that would have had one in 07 & 08, and if they really want all those kids or don't believe in contraception or whatever then they end up having their two kids in 08 & 09, and once again you've gained nothing except the bizarre birth-blip that would throw the proverbial monkey wrench into everything. It remains a really bad wish. Bob NP: Ani, "Going Once" _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:13:12 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Re: So what about that Stephane Dion? njc Well, I too was very surprised by Dion's win on Saturday. I must say he is not well liked in Quebec. I'm sure the Quebec delegates voted for Ignatieff. Dion is a strong centralist/federalist who does not believe in special status for Quebeckers in Canada. He fiercely opposes the separatist movement (a good thing) but he was mocked here in the media for his role in clarifying the sucession law. Now he will really have to prove his worth to Quebeckers to attract votes from Bloc or Conservative voters. Personally, I am delighted that a grass roots swell brought a `little guy`` like Dion to the top, but I seriously question whether he has the charisma and leadership qualities needed for a prime minister. Can he singlehandedly repair the damage left by the previous Liberals ? Can he beat Harper? He's just as lacklustre when speaking in French, believe me. He also needs to shed that choirboy image. This said, I beleive he's honest,intelligent and devoted to the country. For me the real story is why Kennedy handed over his support to Dion and not to any of the leading contenders. It's also interesting to note that Rae did not defer to his old chum, Ignatieff. How long the latter stays on the scene after his defeat remains to be seen. Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger lets you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to find out how to sign up! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:22:30 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... I like what I heard that Dolly Parton said about gay marriage.... She said something to the effect of: I'm all for gay marriage. I think they have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us are! ;-) Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit Bree Mcdonough wrote: > On abortion...they want it to go back to the states. Thinking is.. > that The United States Supreme Court overstepped back in 1973. Gay > marriage..yes you are right...many conservatives think it is wrong... > but don't want an amendment added to the Constitution. Some > do. But we have a long way to go ..Jerry..because well over > seventy percent of people in this country..not just conservatives.. > are NOT for same-sex marriage. They want it preserved between a man > and a woman. > > I've always said people fear what they don't understand. I'm a > lesbian.. so it's as natural as the weather for me to love women...and > want to commit to one ...one special one...for all my life. Many > straights discount.. to some degree this...they don't think gays could > have the level of commitment that they do...on and on. We all know > the divorce rate...well over fifty percent...sounds like their > commitments aren't so rock solid after all. In the Catholic church > it's called the Sacrament of Marriage...it is Jesus Christ who unites > this man and woman. Not to be taken lightly...but many people do. > > Again...I don't think it is God who has problem with people > committing....any people.. > > Bree > > > >> And yet they want constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage and >> abortions. I guess it's pick and choose not screwing with the >> Constitution. >> >> Jerry >> >> >> > Yes....well..and no.... >> > >> > Conservatives don't want what the "framers" set up to be screwed >> with... >> > it's worked.. somehow ..all these two hundred plus years....if it's >> not >> > broken don't fix it ..kind of deal. Religion..no...but some >> absolutes not >> > to be dickered with...the individual is sovereign and the state is >> > subordinate..we loan some of our sovereignty to the state....only >> society in >> > history to have this as it's historical base...... True >> > conservatives...many have lost sight..I will admit..want less >> > government...less regulations.... >> > >> > For instance... >> > >> > Regulations...the other night I heard Newt Gingrich talking about >> > environmental regulations.....and how it took 22 years to add a >> runway in >> > Atlanta. He's all for sound environmental controls...but to drag >> out >> > developments and the expense that comes from that....in other words >> ..the >> > goal is good...but let's look at the regulations and find ways to >> free up >> > development..but at the same time keeping most of the environmental >> > standards in place. >> > >> > Seems like we want the same thing..."live and let live"...... >> > >> > Bree >> > >> >> On the right hand, the "conservatives" believe that if there were >> just more >> >> structure, more religion, more adherence to some set of rules (in >> other >> >> words, if everyone knew their places and stayed in those places), >> life >> >> would >> >> be simple and "sane" again. >> >> >> >> Yes? No? Comments? >> >> >> >> Just stirring the pot, >> >> >> >> Lori >> >> Santa Rosa, CA >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks >> by style, >> > age, and price. Try it! >> > >> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcod >> >> > e=wlmtagline > > > _________________________________________________________________ > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day > trial! > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:10:17 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC gay marriage... I understand what you are saying...but deny that public sentiment doesn't play a part in shaping this country....hence the civil rights act...abortion rights.... enviormental concerns.....smoking. Example: Smoking..as of tomorrow..is banned in any public place in the state of Ohio. A legal substance ..BTW..but a majority of citizens of Ohio voted for the ban. Sooo..Joe Blow.. the bar owner ..now has the the state telling him what he can't do in his OWN PLACE. You asked.."do we really want the majority legislating the rights of the minority?" It's already happening ..Jerry..if something becomes unpopular..watch out. I certainly don't want any constitutional amendment banning gay marriage..leave it to the states. Not activist judges either...the people. We have to change the hearts and minds....by being civil.....showing them that we are so much more than the stereotypes...that indeed...we are really just like them. .. the them ... heterosexuals. Bree >It's not a matter of what anybody wants or don't want. The statement you >made was that conservatives don't want to change the constitution as a >tenant of conservatism. And I claim that is untrue. Besides, do we really >want the majority legislating the rights of the minority? > >Jerry > > > On abortion...they want it to go back to the states. Thinking is.. >that > > The United States Supreme Court overstepped back in 1973. Gay > > marriage..yes you are right...many conservatives think it is wrong... >but > > don't want an amendment added to the Constitution. Some do. But >we > > have a long way to go ..Jerry..because well over seventy percent of >people > > in this country..not just conservatives.. are NOT for same-sex marriage. > > They want it preserved between a man and a woman. _________________________________________________________________ View Athletes Collections with Live Search http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #463 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------