From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #452 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 28 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 452 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC - Tom Waitts on Letterman tonight ["Kate Bennett" ] Jimmy Carter, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: war, njc [Smurf ] Re: war, njc [Smurf ] Re: Soldiers (njc) [Smurf ] Re: Jimmy Carter, njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: New Blue, sjc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Kenny Werner's tribute to Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Urge for Going [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: New Blue, sjc [Danilo Monno ] RE: New Blue, sjc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Orphans (njc) [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: Orphans (njc) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: New Blue, sjc [Danilo Monno ] Re: Soldiers (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: njc, Amma and "Darshan, The Embrace" ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Urge for Going [J Kendel Johnson ] Re: New Blue, sjc [Michael Flaherty ] NJC clips [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: njc, Amma and "Darshan, The Embrace" [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Urge for Going [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: Soldiers (vljc) ["anne@sandstrom.com" ] NJC: mainc depression [Ingrid Lochrenberg ] must qualify [Ingrid Lochrenberg ] Leonard Cohen, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] njc, more to being a hippie. . ["Marianne Rizzo" ] war, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Leonard Cohen, njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Jimmy Carter, njc ["anon anon" ] Re: war, njc [Bob Muller ] Re: Leonard Cohen, njc [Em ] war, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Jimmy Carter, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Humour - njc ["Cassy" ] Re: Humour - njc [Victor Johnson ] Re: War, njc ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: NJC: mainc depression [Ingrid Lochrenberg ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:58:39 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC - Tom Waitts on Letterman tonight And he'll be on Jon Stewart's show Tuesday night. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:35:35 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Soldiers (njc) Kakki >I also think it is just as much of a diss to judge them from some remote armchair as "naive" and "stupid" and "economically challenged." Not sure if it is my post or someone else's who you are responding to Kakki. Anyway, in my experience, kids who are 17, 18, 19 are for the most part naove about the world (in many ways it is a wonderful thing- I was sure naove at that age & remember it fondly...lol), & this includes the realities of war. I have heard countless Vietnam vets who were in combat situations talk about how naove they were going into the war. I also know firsthand about the financial recruitment methods for this war targeted towards kids who are not college bound. I don't speak from an armchair but from personal knowledge about my own family members who are currently enlisted. I recently had another conversation with a young man stationed at the local AF base who was from, of all places, Flint MI. He said the service was his only option. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:02:34 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Jimmy Carter, njc Jimmy Carter was on Larry King last night. Maybe the show will be repeated. He is an example of integrity. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:05:58 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: war, njc - --- Em wrote: > Lesson learned from the Vietnam War: don't diss the > pawns. At the end of the game, the pawns and the kings go into the same box. Accountability has to begin somewhere. When I was a child I was extremely upset by the movie "Judgment at Nuremberg," particularly when the German woman claimed that no one knew what was happening to the Jews. You know what? People today don't have the luxury of saying they don't know what is happening in Iraq because we've all seen the results -- from the horrific images of abused prisoners to heart-rending photographs of dead and maimed children -- splashed across TV and computer screens and newspapers. This war was wrong from day one, and the situation we have today is exactly what was predicted by some of the wiser members of this very list when my country started this war. It chills me to the bone to see my countrymen and women behaving in ways that remind me of some of the more evil pages in history. And what do military recruiters talk about? Duty? Honor? Sacrifice? Yeah, right. They appeal to greed, making promises of sign-up cash bonuses, education, and other perks. I am all for treating enlisted people with respect, buying phone cards for them, welcoming them home with open arms, etc. But I am not going to contribute to the illusion that what they are doing in Iraq is somehow for my benefit or for the good of America. - --Smurf Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: war, njc Kate, thanks for your response. It was the only one that helped give me any understanding of the absurd (to me) phrase "I support the troops but not the war." I keep hearing that phrase over and over and usually I wonder if the people who say it have their brains connected to their mouths. Your thoughtful response was illuminating. Thanks, - --Smurf - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Smurf > Also, if someone could explain to me what "I > support the troops but > > not the war" means I would appreciate it. In a > case like Iraq it feels > > very much like saying "I hated the Holocaust but > supported the Nazis." > > I really am sorry that economic circumstances and > other problems have > > been a factor for many Americans who have chosen > -- CHOSEN, not been > > drafted -- to be there, but what ever happened to > being morally > > responsible for our actions? > > > Its a good question. Yes, we are all morally > responsible for our actions. > I think it has something to do with the shadows of > Vietnam, when many people > who opposed to the war, also treated those who > fought the war so badly (not > me- my once upon a time boyfriend was a Vietnam vet > not that he ever talked > about it). So, for those of us who are older now & > went through that time, > I think many have a different perspective on the > troops. I know mine is a > mother's perspective. True they were not drafted, > however many reservists > had to go. Many had their stays extended. Sure > they had a choice, just as > draftees had a choice not to go. But what I'm > saying is that from my > mother's vantage point I see the vulnerability & > naiveti of young kids who > sign up. Hindsight is everything, but as opposed as > any of us was to this > war from the start, we didn't have all the > information we have now that > makes our position correct. And so, I have > compassion towards those who at > the time thought they were doing the right thing by > signing up to go > liberate Iraq. I also have compassion towards those > young kids who are in > parts of the country or from a culture where they > have few options after > high school (or who can't cut high school for any > number of reasons) are > tempted with more money than they've ever seen in > their life in order to > sign up. It isn't a draft per se, but it is a draft > of sorts- certainly s a > choice (at a very young age) that those of us from > different circumstances > may never have had to consider. I'm not saying they > are absolved of > responsibility for their choice, I'm just saying I > have an understanding of > the motivations that I never had before. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:34:51 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Soldiers (njc) How loathsome of us limousine liberals to keep forgetting that this war is being fought by battalions of Ivy League-educated trust fund babies. - --Smurf - --- kbhla@sbcglobal.net wrote: > Em wrote: > > "Lesson learned from the Vietnam War: don't diss the > pawns." > > Thank you for recognizing that. Some of the > rhetoric out there is really > disgusting. Dredging up the same old &%#* that was > done during Vietnam. > Too many people around still remember what was done > to the soldiers back > then and they are not going to put up with it again. > I also think it is > just as much of a diss to judge them from some > remote armchair as "naive" > and "stupid" and "economically challenged." I > shouldn't have to explain > why. > > Kakki > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:21:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter, njc And a constant target of the right wing. How they can vilify him is beyond me. He has always been a hero to me. The first President to tie Human Rights to American Aid. Jerry Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Jimmy Carter > > was on Larry King last night. Maybe the show will be repeated. > > > He is an example of integrity. > > Marianne > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces > friends module. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:24:17 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: New Blue, sjc There's nothing wrong with it at all, Danilo - matter of fact, an "Original Blue" cd has been circulating on the JMDL for years with these 2 songs that were included prematurely. The only thing that's "wrong" is believing that this configuration of Blue is what Joni 'intended' as opposed to the version we know. It's just a false statement, just as false as saying that UFG wasn't released as a single or that UFG is on Misses. There shouldn't be anything out of order about correcting a false statement. When (not if) I say something that's not right, I appreciate someone pointing me in the correct direction Bob NP: Tom Waits, "World Keeps Turning" (finally got my Orphans yesterday!) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:32:21 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Kenny Werner's tribute to Joni I do not, but Simon does - the list is compiled here: http://jonimitchell.com/musician/songsmentioning.cfm And as you can see it lists the Kenny Werner track. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Little Man" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:44:33 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Urge for Going And still going strong, if not stronger than ever. It's just like Chicago, just slap a number on 'em and put 'em out there. UFG is one of my favorite Joni songs and I always covet a cover of it. Some of my favorites...Crosby/Nash, Erinn Brown, Seanachie (who put a great celtic/bagpipe on it). There are a couple I don't have yet but hopefully will get someday. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Down There By The Train" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:49:34 +0100 From: Danilo Monno Subject: RE: New Blue, sjc Bob wrote:From http://www.jonimitchell.com/biography/bio.cfm?id=233"The album, "Blue" was released in June 1971, but it had nearly reached the record buying public in a quite different form. In early March of 1971, the masters for the album were sent by Reprise to their record plants, and at least a few reel to reel copies of the album were recorded with a different song list. But word came down before many reels were produced that Joni had decided to recall the master tape and substitute two new songs - "All I Want" and "The Last Time I Saw Richard" - for two of the older ones. The two songs deleted were "The Urge For Going", which appeared in 1972 as the B-side to "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio", and "Hunter (The Good Samaritan)", which has yet to appear on any record. " This means, TO ME, that in a very first moment those songs were about to appear on "Blue" until Joni changed her mind.HugsDaniloTo: vaniglio@hotmail.comCC: joni@smoe.orgSubject: Re: New Blue, sjcFrom: Bob.Muller@Fluor.comDate: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:24:17 -0500 There's nothing wrong with it at all, Danilo - - matter of fact, an "Original Blue" cd has been circulating on the JMDL for years with these 2 songs that were included prematurely. The only thing that's "wrong" is believing that this configuration of Blue is what Joni 'intended' as opposed to the version we know. It's just a false statement, just as false as saying that UFG wasn't released as a single or that UFG is on Misses. There shouldn't be anything out of order about correcting a false statement. When (not if) I say something that's not right, I appreciate someone pointing me in the correct direction Bob NP: Tom Waits, "World Keeps Turning" (finally got my Orphans yesterday!) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Prova Live.com: una sola home page per avere a portata di mano tutte le tue informazioni. http://www.live.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:05:23 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: New Blue, sjc And perhaps closer to the truth is that the record label, anxious to get product on the street from one of their biggest stars, attempted to rush the record out before it met Joni's specifications. Whatever we believe about Joni, she is not wishy-washy about her recordings and we can rest assured that what hits the market is what she approves. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Dog Door" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:21:35 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Orphans (njc) NP: Tom Waits, "World Keeps Turning" (finally got my Orphans yesterday!) I got my Orphans as well. I love the packaging...very nice! So far I've listened to Bawlers. I'm looking forward to delving into it much more over winter break. I also ordered the autobiography of Miles Davis which I will be reading. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:45:42 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Orphans (njc) While I like the packaging, I was disappointed with the book - from what I had read, I was thinking that it would be more narrative, histories of the songs and other trivia like that, instead of just the song titles, lyrics (where appropriate) and list of musicians. I guess what I was looking for was something more than basic information. An intro or foreward from Tom would have been nice. Certainly some interesting photos though. I'm already through Brawlers & Bawlers, and listening to Ba$tards now. I'm thinking that Bawlers will get the most earplay with me. Bob NP: TW, "Heigh Ho" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:46:23 +0100 From: Danilo Monno Subject: RE: New Blue, sjc Ok, Bob.But this does not deny at all what I wrote and what is written in the site. I'm not arguing about Joni's choice and I never will. I'm totally aware and sure that it was Joni herself who selected the songs for each one of her pearls! And I'm grateful she gave us a precious jewel as Blue, as it is today.HugsTo: vaniglio@hotmail.comCC: joni@smoe.orgSubject: RE: New Blue, sjcFrom: Bob.Muller@Fluor.comDate: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:05:23 -0500 And perhaps closer to the truth is that the record label, anxious to get product on the street from one of their biggest stars, attempted to rush the record out before it met Joni's specifications. Whatever we believe about Joni, she is not wishy-washy about her recordings and we can rest assured that what hits the market is what she approves. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Dog Door" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Esprimiti: personalizza la tua home page con Live.com. http://www.live.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:09:31 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Soldiers (njc) > How loathsome of us limousine liberals to keep > forgetting that this war is being fought by battalions > of Ivy League-educated trust fund babies. Heh. You're referring to this CIVIL WAR, aren't you, Smurf? I spent much of Thanksgiving evening yelling at the various television news programs: "It's a CIVIL war! Stop playing word games!" That was several days before CBS decided to start "calling it what it is." I think I'll become a professional pundit. Or maybe a fortune teller. Lori, disgusted (as always) in Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:16:48 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, Amma and "Darshan, The Embrace" > Has anyone heard of this woman Amma, or this movie about her? The movie played recently at the independent theatre in San Rafael, CA, although I unfortunately missed it. I've known of Amma (sometimes called "Ammachi") for many years, as a friend of mine in Texas attends her Darshan held in Plano most years. I do believe our dear Ashara is well acquainted with Amma, too. It was Amma's photograph that Bob Muller picked up from Ashara's piano during the impromtu performance of "The Ganja Line" (sung to the tune of "The Jungle Line") at Jonifest 2001. : D http://www.amma.org/ Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Urge for Going UFG Crosby/Nash cover?!!! Is that still available somewhere? Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: UFG is one of my favorite Joni songs and I always covet a cover of it. Some of my favorites...Crosby/Nash, Erinn Brown, Seanachie (who put a great celtic/bagpipe on it). There are a couple I don't have yet but hopefully will get someday. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Down There By The Train" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: New Blue, sjc >But word came down before many reels were produced that Joni had decided to recall the master tape and substitute two new songs I think there's more of a misunderstanding than an argument here. No one's arguing against anyone listening to anything, nor that two other songs were almost on the album. The bottom line: the above states the fact very simply: "Joni decided", and therefore, Joni's intention. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:27:08 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC clips Here is something for the bored and the procrastinators: a) a weird dance-video involving eight treadmills and some very finnish-looking men. www.fugufish.org/frog/?p=38 b) a silly game, mainly for people who like to see their president falling freely. He can be moved with the cursor if stuck. http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgie.htm Best Bene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:35:16 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Amma and "Darshan, The Embrace" One of the best memories EVER! I'm sure that Amma would have been honored to have been a part of the festivities that spontaneous night. She's probably the only person who can top Ashara in the hugs department. Bob NP: Nancy Wilson, "My Ship" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:55:27 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Urge for Going Sure - it comes from the CSN box set that came out a couple of years ago. I don't have the full box but Kakki shared a couple of tracks with me, the studio recording of UFG and an alternate take of Woodstock (that was very similar to what got released) as well as a beautiful version of Stills singing "Blackbird". If you're a CSN fan this would be a must-have collection, and it's been out long enough now that it's available for half the original price. Bob NP: Thelonius Monk, "Functional" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:31:59 +0000 (UTC) From: "anne@sandstrom.com" Subject: RE: Soldiers (vljc) Hi Kakki, I agree with your post completely about not dissing the soldiers on the ground and about the echoes of Viet Nam vet treatment. Russ served in 'Nam and returned home to an indifferent (at best) country. He didn't go by choice - he was drafted. I know it still hurts to be made to feel like he should be ashamed of what he did. He's not. But he is ashamed of how some U.S. soldiers treated the Vietnamese, just as he is of the treatment of Iraqis. I think back to Joni performing for soldiers at Fort Bragg. Even if she didn't agree with the politics, she gave the soldiers her music. I think that's a good example of "support the troops" - even if you don't agree with the administration's policies. I vehemently oppose the war in Iraq and have (in word and deed) since before it began. But I have also volunteeered to be the moderator so that soldiers stationed there and their loved ones could communicate via real-time video/audio around Valentine's Day. I see no contradiction in that. I hope for an end to this war, but I'm afraid the darkest days are still ahead. lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:08:19 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: NJC: mainc depression And luckily i've had the presence of mind to tell a good psychiatrist whom I'm seeing today that I'm paranoid about my psychitrist, who has been communicating with the alternative one on my landscape, also a woman, and that they've decided that I must keep going back to my ex-current one, who I've decided and told the other , is intellectually challenged, which I assure you she is. Anway, Bene, I'm sure that you can appreciate a comment like this. Not vereyone, as we know, has this capacity.For the first time in my lufe(when survival is at stake one becoes desperate) I've pointed this out to someone.But then so are so many people in this society I partake of. one can only cope if one has a substantial sense of humour, and some Germans on the radio who display this remarkeable insightful quality..that is now aprtfrom the genuinely sensitive DJ's one finds among the south african males and females. As you might have heard ( but I am sure you haven't) they have today in this country passed the civil unions bill, which are aimed at the rather large portion of gay and lesbian people in this countri. in cape Town, most people that are vaguely sensitive are gay, belive it or not. i suppose this means about 90% of the popultaion, over here.(we live in a seriosuly dangerous country) love! ingrid - ----- Original Message ---- From: "missblux@googlemail.com" To: Joni LIST Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:08:11 PM Subject: SJC Leonard Cohen film (and some Nick Cave... (& Nephew!) ) Hello all....unknown Jonilisteners, Jonilurkers and the ones I know! I just came back from watching the film on Leonard Cohen, it was very enjoyable. Has anyone seen it...? It opened with Nick Cave, who is even more my darling after I saw him in concert in Germany last week. That is weird, because my friend and I weren't actually totally swept away with that concert. We were somewhat awe-struck, but... A year ago, I went with the same friend to a concert in Cologne, with a Danish band called Nephew. The venue was small, Nephew totally unknown in Germany, and we got in for free. But we had a PARTY! The room was teaming, and we danced and sang along, and leaving the venue we were shouting and dancing and totally ecstatic, and my friend had never heard them before but he loved them. We went to his local pub afterwards, and I think my mantra for the night, which I shouted every five minutes, was "We should have invited them for a beer!" Walking away from Nick Cave, who performed in a proper concert hall, almost sold out, and at really expensive prices, I knew one of us would say, actually, Nephew was more fun. And I knew I'd agree and disagree at the same time. He has a kind of grandeur which is impressive and touching at the same time and which also shines through in the Cohen film. The film has some great acts in it, Rufus Wainwright and Antony impressed me a lot, and some older Canadian female singers I'd never heard of before. It was great because whenever they show anything about music on TV it's mostly for the glamour, and it's attention-seeking posers with botoxed lips and sleak clothes and hair that makes them tilt their heads in funny angles. This film is full of humans who are there to make art and first of all rever someone else than themselves. Now that is nice for a change! No Joni references (how dare they!), but Cohen said something that made me think about our discussions about Dylan and Joni. He said when he came to New York as a young man and met the 'market' there, he noticed that the American poets had more grand visions about themselves and the world. Because they were Americans, the somehow expected that they would be able to change the world. The Canadians, he said, were more humble. I don't think this sums up the mystery of why everyone knows Dylan, but not Joni. But then maybe it does, anyway. I think with her, it's because she sings about personal experiences, and people at that time were so much into changing society (damn in what Joni song does the word society occur? I hear it ringing in my ear right now, just ...society!) I almost get the impression that introspection was only acceptable if the point was to break down patriarchal patterns that would make you support the capitalist society. Not that many people would admit that 'all I really want to do right now is find another lover'. But don't we all know the feeling! Maybe I should add that I was born in 1965, so it's not like I never saw a hippie... or a peace-march. That's all for today, except if any of you Cave-men and women came to the end of this email I'd like to ask again if you've seen The Proposition, and how you liked it...? Have a nice evening over there, and for those of you who are on my side of the planet, the Africans and the Europeans, good night! Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:10:55 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: must qualify that this applies to the causasian population as a whole, and the female black people, who, historically, always been lesbian- their ultimate pleasure in life, up to now and still now, is to have children, with the occasional very solitary exception I suupose- since I've never come accross one. Ingrid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:52:19 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Leonard Cohen, njc I like Leonard Cohen, (especially Suzanne) but I did have this same feeling Bene that he's arrogant. .. I know what it is . . . I got a hold of some sheet music of his and the forward that he had written sounded as such to me. . . but I know what you mean Kakki about the beautiful music and the subtle yet poingnant (sp?) messages. I am going to have to find that sheet music. . but probably won't anytime soon .. I am in a bit of a clutterd state right now. . . .h e l p!!! : -) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:41:18 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: SJC film and other Canadians... On 11/26/06, kbhla@sbcglobal.net wrote: >Interesting about Cohen. I have no explanation as to why but in my circle >of friends in sunny So. Calif. in the 60s the Canadian artists were >absolutely revered. Sure we had to the locals and the San Francisco scene, >but Cohen, Joni, Gordon Lightfoot, Buffy Sainte Marie and all the others >were really beloved in my group. Maybe it was because in a way they were >humble. They were not beating us over the head with their messages and >excess - they were just making stone beautiful music. Music that went >beyond obvious messages and gave us the real message. > Ah! So he was spot on! He seems to be a very intelligent and insightful man, which your email somehow confirms. I was never that much into him, I think because when I first heard him, the weighty way of his phrasing made me think he was being shallow and arrogant. I guess that says more about me though! _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:54:39 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: njc, more to being a hippie. . I am intrigued by this Kakki. . >Funny you mentioned the ones who wanted to bring down the "capitalist" >paradigm (oooh and I know someone or another is going to hit me here) - >most >of them were/are all trust fund babies out the gate and are still making it >fat and big under that very paradigm. There is really more to being a >hippie than what is assumed ;-) > _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:20:03 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: war, njc Smurf, >Not to mention Iraqis that are now without sons and other loved ones who died for what? September 11th? Hiding weapons of mass destruction? Ugh! This war is all about American ignorance and power lust. The sooner it ends, the closer we'll be to living in a sane world. I haven't been so ashamed to be American since Vietnam.< excellent point. >Also, if someone could explain to me what "I support >the troops but not the war" means I would appreciate >it. I think of it this way. . . we need a defense in this country. . I guess any country does. . so these military people sign up to provide this job . . this functinn. . their job becomes to take orders from the president. . even if they disagree with the president at any time. . . they still perform their duties. . We have to support them .. because they are there for the country unquestioningly. . it really does not seem right. . I know . . I mean someone should fight for what they believe in . . . and go to war when they believe in the cause. . but we couldn't have a military that was high functioning if certain people went sometimes and not other times . . so the people of the military seem to have to have a overall trust in the government. . . and even if they do not agree . . they are there for the country.. . for that we have to support their comittment. . . we support them even tho it seems wrong. . even tho this war is wrong. . so maybe they are even more brave and committed than we think . . to continue serving even tho many feel it is wrong too .. I am just thinking out loud here Smurf. . >In a case like Iraq it feels very much like saying "I hated the Holocaust but supported the Nazis." I really am sorry that economic circumstances and other problems have been a factor for many Americans who have chosen -- CHOSEN, not been drafted -- to be there, but what ever happened to being morally responsible for our actions? < you make good sense here too. . . XOXO Marianne _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:25:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Leonard Cohen, njc Cohen has just recorded Judy Collins' gorgeous Since You've Asked for an upcoming cd. Jerry Marianne Rizzo wrote: > I like Leonard Cohen, > (especially Suzanne) > > but I did have this same feeling Bene > > that he's arrogant. .. I know what it is . . . I got a hold of some sheet > music of his and the forward that he had written sounded as such to me. . > . > > but I know what you mean Kakki about the beautiful music and the subtle > yet > poingnant (sp?) messages. > > > I am going to have to find that sheet music. . but probably won't anytime > soon .. I am in a bit of a clutterd state right now. . . .h e l p!!! > > : -) > > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:41:18 +0000 > From: missblux@googlemail.com > Subject: SJC film and other Canadians... > > On 11/26/06, kbhla@sbcglobal.net wrote: >>Interesting about Cohen. I have no explanation as to why but in my >> circle >>of friends in sunny So. Calif. in the 60s the Canadian artists were >>absolutely revered. Sure we had to the locals and the San Francisco >> scene, >>but Cohen, Joni, Gordon Lightfoot, Buffy Sainte Marie and all the others >>were really beloved in my group. Maybe it was because in a way they were >>humble. They were not beating us over the head with their messages and >>excess - they were just making stone beautiful music. Music that went >>beyond obvious messages and gave us the real message. >> > > Ah! So he was spot on! He seems to be a very intelligent and > insightful man, which your email somehow confirms. I was never that > much into him, I think because when I first heard him, the weighty way > of his phrasing made me think he was being shallow and arrogant. I > guess that says more about me though! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. > http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:32:06 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter, njc >From: "Gerald A. Notaro" >Reply-To: "Gerald A. Notaro" >To: "Marianne Rizzo" >CC: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter, njc >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:21:05 -0500 (EST) > >And a constant target of the right wing. How they can vilify him is beyond >me. He has always been a hero to me. The first President to tie Human >Rights to American Aid. > >Jerry > >Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > Jimmy Carter > > > > was on Larry King last night. Maybe the show will be repeated. > > > > > > He is an example of integrity. > > > > Marianne > > > > __ I'm not a christian, but Jimmy Carter seems to me to be an example of what a christian should be, in the best sense of the word... I had a coworker who would say that she is ashamed that George Bush would consider himself a christian... I think she is absolutly right... George Bush is a "war dictator" as Joni has said, who is for the rich and powerful... Can you imagine what Jesus would think of Bush??? _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:38:58 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: war, njc And don't forget that any of us who pay Federal income taxes support them in a literal sense. I think the military is still the largest component of the Federal budget, it might be the interest on the debt these days. Bob NP: Megan Birdsall, "Help Me" _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:34:49 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Leonard Cohen, njc see??? he knows how to bend! Em - --- "Gerald A. Notaro" wrote: > Cohen has just recorded Judy Collins' gorgeous Since You've Asked for > an > upcoming cd. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:56:41 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: war, njc that's for sure. . . they are big big pieces of the pie. . the military and the debt. I wish we could show pies on this list. >And don't forget that any of us who pay Federal income taxes support them >in a literal sense. I >think the military is still the largest component of >the Federal budget, it might be the interest on >the debt these days. >Bob _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:59:08 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Jimmy Carter, njc I am not a christian either. . . but I think you have a good point there >I'm not a christian, but Jimmy Carter seems to me to be an example of what >a christian should be, >in the best sense of the word... _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:26:54 -0500 From: "Cassy" Subject: Humour - njc From: "Marianne Rizzo" <<< I wish we could show pies on this list. >>> MMMM Pie! http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/pie.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:51:54 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Humour - njc On Nov 28, 2006, at 8:26 PM, Cassy wrote: > From: "Marianne Rizzo" > > <<< I wish we could show pies on this list. >>> > > MMMM Pie! > > http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/pie.htm sometimes weebl's friend Bob......which Bob is it, Muller or Murphy? Victor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:19:09 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: War, njc Yes, you are right. It can be very draining! I think even though each of us may have our political beliefs, some of us try to make change quietly. I feel I am supposed to be one of these people. I may feel strongly about issues but I'm more interested in finding common ground and ways we can all work together. I hope that makes sense. Sherelle >From: "anon anon" > > > It's ok to get upset about political issues... it's natural, I think... >It's important to not be afraid to express yourself, though it can >definatly be emotionally draining at times, in my experiance... > > >>From: "Sherelle Smith" >>Reply-To: "Sherelle Smith" >>To: joni@smoe.org >>Subject: Re: War, njc >>Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:55:16 +0000 >> >>Just wanted to apologize for getting a little upset previously. I told you >>I was a novice at political debate. >> >>Sherelle >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from >>Microsoft Office Live >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > >_________________________________________________________________ >Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends >list. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:40:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: Re: NJC: mainc depression Well, very interestingly, my first delusioned 9grandiosity0 psychitrasit kept on insisting that I was hearing voices, causing slight confusion. but i was so throughly bewildered by where i'd ended up in life that i payed this almost zero attention, until i realised that he was enamoured with me, which was also of passing interest. Please, he was livin in wonderland and I was in hell. but actually, i've enjoyed that ward more than any other place in my life because of the self-knowledge i got there, and the fact that for my first time in my life, I was making friends by the dozen. in fact, suddenly i could make sense of people relatuionships. which I suppose, means you qualify among the insane. - ----- Original Message ---- From: "missblux@googlemail.com" To: Ingrid Lochrenberg Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:45:17 PM Subject: Re: NJC: mainc depression I think I can appreciate the comment to the extent that if you say that you are paranoid about your intellectually challenged psychiatrist, then either you are suffering from clinical paranoia, or you have an intellectually challenged psychiatrist. Given what you have told us about yourself, both things seem likely... I think psychiatrists must sometimes have a hard time, because they more or less have to play God with other people, and judge their behaviour. It's a huge responsibility, and ideally would require someone with more than average intellectual capabilities I think. I saw a program about people who hear voices, of various sorts. They talked to religious people who claimed to hear the voice of God, and to novelists who claimed their novels wrote themselves, or that the persons in their stories spoke to them. These people were considered sane. Then they spoke to psychiatric patients, people with schizophrenia and psychoses, who heard voices too. I am not sure how they ended up drawing the comparison, but the interesting thing was that there were psychiatrists that said they had started listening to what the patients said these voices were telling them; and they thought they could find clues to what was going on in the person's life that way. I thought that was interesting. NO, I didn't know about the the new bill in SA, but I have been there many years ago, and I remember it was very violent. I don't know if you know that there are many gay people on the list? I'm not a lesbian, but it is weird how I keep making friends with gays and lesbians, and how all sorts of things that I like are popular with them too. I was really surprised when I joined the list and found out that Joni has a lot of gay followers. Weird, its almost as if I am a sexual minority here... Ok I have to go, I need to finish what I'm writing... Take care! Bene On 11/28/06, Ingrid Lochrenberg wrote: > > And luckily i've had the presence of mind to tell a good psychiatrist whom > I'm seeing today that I'm paranoid about my psychitrist, who has been > communicating with the alternative one on my landscape, also a woman, and > that they've decided that I must keep going back to my ex-current one, who > I've decided and told the other , is intellectually challenged, which I > assure you she is. > > Anway, Bene, I'm sure that you can appreciate a comment like this. Not > vereyone, as we know, has this capacity.For the first time in my lufe(when > survival is at stake one becoes desperate) I've pointed this out to > someone.But then so are so many people in this society I partake of. one > can only cope if one has a substantial sense of humour, and some Germans on > the radio who display this remarkeable insightful quality..that is now > aprtfrom the genuinely sensitive DJ's one finds among the south african > males and females. As you might have heard ( but I am sure you haven't) they > have today in this country passed the civil unions bill, which are aimed at > the rather large portion of gay and lesbian people in this countri. in cape > Town, most people that are vaguely sensitive are gay, belive it or not. i > suppose this means about 90% of the popultaion, over here.(we live in a > seriosuly dangerous country) > > love! > ingrid > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "missblux@googlemail.com" > To: Joni LIST > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:08:11 PM > Subject: SJC Leonard Cohen film (and some Nick Cave... (& Nephew!) ) > > > Hello all....unknown Jonilisteners, Jonilurkers and the ones I know! > > I just came back from watching the film on Leonard Cohen, it was very > enjoyable. Has anyone seen it...? > > It opened with Nick Cave, who is even more my darling after I saw him > in concert in Germany last week. > > That is weird, because my friend and I weren't actually totally swept > away with that concert. We were somewhat awe-struck, but... A year > ago, I went with the same friend to a concert in Cologne, with a > Danish band called Nephew. The venue was small, Nephew totally unknown > in Germany, and we got in for free. But we had a PARTY! The room was > teaming, and we danced and sang along, and leaving the venue we were > shouting and dancing and totally ecstatic, and my friend had never > heard them before but he loved them. We went to his local pub > afterwards, and I think my mantra for the night, which I shouted every > five minutes, was "We should have invited them for a beer!" > > Walking away from Nick Cave, who performed in a proper concert hall, > almost sold out, and at really expensive prices, I knew one of us > would say, actually, Nephew was more fun. And I knew I'd agree and > disagree at the same time. He has a kind of grandeur which is > impressive and touching at the same time and which also shines through > in the Cohen film. > > The film has some great acts in it, Rufus Wainwright and Antony > impressed me a lot, and some older Canadian female singers I'd never > heard of before. It was great because whenever they show anything > about music on TV it's mostly for the glamour, and it's > attention-seeking posers with botoxed lips and sleak clothes and hair > that makes them tilt their heads in funny angles. This film is full of > humans who are there to make art and first of all rever someone else > than themselves. Now that is nice for a change! > > No Joni references (how dare they!), but Cohen said something that > made me think about our discussions about Dylan and Joni. He said when > he came to New York as a young man and met the 'market' there, he > noticed that the American poets had more grand visions about > themselves and the world. Because they were Americans, the somehow > expected that they would be able to change the world. The Canadians, > he said, were more humble. > > I don't think this sums up the mystery of why everyone knows Dylan, > but not Joni. But then maybe it does, anyway. I think with her, it's > because she sings about personal experiences, and people at that time > were so much into changing society (damn in what Joni song does the > word society occur? I hear it ringing in my ear right now, just > ...society!) I almost get the impression that introspection was only > acceptable if the point was to break down patriarchal patterns that > would make you support the capitalist society. Not that many people > would admit that 'all I really want to do right now is find another > lover'. But don't we all know the feeling! > > Maybe I should add that I was born in 1965, so it's not like I never > saw a hippie... or a peace-march. > > That's all for today, except if any of you Cave-men and women came to > the end of this email I'd like to ask again if you've seen The > Proposition, and how you liked it...? > > Have a nice evening over there, and for those of you who are on my > side of the planet, the Africans and the Europeans, good night! > > Benedicte ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #452 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------