From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #437 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 19 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 437 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni, Prince and UK Hall of Fame ["Anita Tedder" ] Re: Monday, Dec 11, patrick at carnegie hall in a tux again - njc ["Sher] Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #436 [missblux@googlemail.com] Sorry for forgetting no joni content on my last email and for forgetting to put Ingrids name on it too! [] drummer boy, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Your email [Ingrid Lochrenberg ] re: Reviews of Joni's Gallery Showing - Green Flag Song and how I got ["m] Re: Sorry for forgetting no joni content on my last email and for forgetting to put Ingrids name on it too! [] Re: Njc Human species 'may split in two' [Em ] Re: drummer boy, njc [Em ] Subject: RE: NJC Tom Waits - now critics ["mia _" ] Re: Njc Human species 'may split in two' [Victor Johnson ] Re: Your email [Ingrid Lochrenberg ] Re: Subject: RE: NJC Tom Waits - now critics and non-art films ["mia _" <] Oliver Curry's original paper (njc) [Victor Johnson Subject: Joni, Prince and UK Hall of Fame I haven't seen on the digest any news of Joni's appearance on video (with Green Flag Song pictures behind her) saying kind words about Prince as he was inducted into the UK Music Hall of Fame. I was SO surprised when in she popped (I wrote pooped first!!) up talking about said small, but marvellous regal star. I was watching it last night and the main bit I remember is Joni saying that Prince holds the best parties in LA! She has her priorities that girl :~) Prince shyly said that, when mentoring new artists, he points them to the lyrics of Joni Mitchell. Anyway, must go look at more of your photos at the Joni's art show ! Been away for a few days staying at Lieve's in London - THANKS Lieve. Love Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:35:39 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Monday, Dec 11, patrick at carnegie hall in a tux again - njc Hi Patrick! I wish I could be there to see you my friend but I will definitely be with you in spirit. I'm so happy that it's probably going to be a sell out! Carnegie Hall again! This is too cool! Please let us know how things go! I'm so excited for you! Love, Sherelle Patrick wrote: hey folks, just a couple of weeks later, i'm going to be on the stage at carnegie hall again. this time, i'll be dancing, in a tux with top hat and cane (in the finale) as well as singing. as some of you've heard, i'm in love with the music, which ranges from complex classical choral pieces to oddities such as: - - -the annoying drummer boy - - -forgotten hanukkah carols i'm very excited. i believe these christmas concerts sell out, so if you're interested, you should get your tickets soon. if this is a geographically inapproriate message, please think of it as a kiss blown to you for the holidays. all the best, patrick np - eva cassidy, time is a healer NYCGMC Holiday Spectacular! NYCGMC Holiday Spectacular Gary Miller, Music Director Monday , December 11, 2006 8:00pm Carnegie Hall What would the holidays be without us!! The NYCGMC returns to Carnegie Hall for our annual concert that is the highlight of the Chriskwanukah season in New York. Maestro Gary Miller returns to the conductor's post once again for an evening of great holiday music that will inspire you, make you laugh, and bring you great cheer. It's the most fabulous time of the year!! Our Holiday Spectacular is one of NYC's most anticipated December events and always sells out. Special guests this year include the ever fabulous Charles Busch,Tony-nominee Michael McElroy, Youth Pride Chorus, Barry Oliver, and The MENhattans! Get your tickets today! http://carnegiehall.org/article/box_office/events/evt_8837.html?selecteddate =12112006 _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:10:12 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #436 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: who will help me My mother refuses to acknowledge that I was adopted (my father has passed away) and my family use my protestations to have me committed to psychiatric establishmenst and institutions. Who will help me? - -------------------------------------------- Dear Ingrid, Just because you feel unconnected it doesn't mean that you are adopted. I think you are having a lot of trouble understanding what is going on around you; and I think some of these problems can be solved if you see a psychiatrist. If you have experiences like thinking that people at telkom are watching you or are trying to get at you then you need to talk to a psychiatrist about that. I have a friend who used to think the CIA were watching her, in her own home, and she said people in the street would say strange things to her. She saw a psychiatrist, and it helped a lot. I think you should talk to someone about this. People on this list are kind, and your family are the ones who care about you the most. You should take their advice. Just don't let psychiatry run your life. What I know from people who take psychofarmaca is that it will turn them into very dull people if they don't take some control themselves. You can improve your mood a lot by eating right, exercising, walk at the beach as you do, listen to good music, and it is also important that you don't begin to self-medicate by smoking and drinking a lot. All these substances that you can get addicted to make matters worse. You are obviously a very vibrant person, I hope you will get through this. Take care, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:15:50 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Sorry for forgetting no joni content on my last email and for forgetting to put Ingrids name on it too! am trying to learn how to sue googlemail and it's a bit tricky... Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:14:59 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: drummer boy, njc >>-the annoying drummer boy >I share your disdain for that really annoying song, >but at least it's balanced by the other stuff. I like the song. : -) well, I don't prefer anything about kings or anything. . never had (no kings for me). . I still think it is pretty. . . XOXO Marianne _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:19:13 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: Re: Your email Thank you for your concern and thoughts. I have been in a state for a few days, but have gone back on my medication, and am far better now.I have had a blood test done between my mother and 'twinsiter 'and I which shows that I have am unrelated to them (everything in my life has been trying and quite complicated. i am for instance, going to be talking seriously to the technical department of my bank, the standard bank, for not responding swiftly to my telling them that I had a spoof site...in told the guy that's at the head of the technical depertment that I was goingto sue him. i mightl, but doing so isn't a priority in my life. i have otherprioties, like geting in real direct contact with my real mother, something which has been a big thing in my lif. My fisrt breakdwon was a depressive psychosis. i have been diagnosed as bipolar but the lasting diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, but the first breakdwon was a depressive psychosis coming about from feeling so alone and without comfort.I've smoked dope only on about two or three occaions in m life 9it only made me a bit sleepy the last ime) and I have never done psychodelic drugs I am essentially not a paranoid operson at all. i just get upset and overwhelmed with aloness and the obstackes in my way to findingsomeone who will love me- which I think will be my real mother. I am eating far better since september. thank you for everything... ingrid - ----- Original Message ---- From: "missblux@googlemail.com" To: lochrenbird@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 4:13:57 PM Subject: Your email Hi Ingrid I sent this, but forgot to pur your name in the to-field. It's for you! - ---------- Forwarded message - ---------- From: missblux@googlemail.com Date: Nov 19, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #436 To: joni@smoe.org Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg < lochrenbird@yahoo.com> Subject: who will help me My mother refuses to acknowledge that I was adopted (my father has passed away) and my family use my protestations to have me committed to psychiatric establishmenst and institutions. Who will help me? - -------------------------------------------- Dear Ingrid, Just because you feel unconnected it doesn't mean that you are adopted. I think you are having a lot of trouble understanding what is going on around you; and I think some of these problems can be solved if you see a psychiatrist. If you have experiences like thinking that people at telkom are watching you or are trying to get at you then you need to talk to a psychiatrist about that. I have a friend who used to think the CIA were watching her, in her own home, and she said people in the street would say strange things to her. She saw a psychiatrist, and it helped a lot. I think you should talk to someone about this. People on this list are kind, and your family are the ones who care about you the most. You should take their advice. Just don't let psychiatry run your life. What I know from people who take psychofarmaca is that it will turn them into very dull people if they don't take some control themselves. You can improve your mood a lot by eating right, exercising, walk at the beach as you do, listen to good music, and it is also important that you don't begin to self-medicate by smoking and drinking a lot. All these substances that you can get addicted to make matters worse. You are obviously a very vibrant person, I hope you will get through this. Take care, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:44:28 -0600 From: "mia _" Subject: re: Reviews of Joni's Gallery Showing - Green Flag Song and how I got Wow, Joni's really funny - thanks for sharing that. So glad you are getting an autographed copy! Mia Laura wrote: <> _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:48:49 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Sorry for forgetting no joni content on my last email and for forgetting to put Ingrids name on it too! >am trying to learn how to sue googlemail and it's a bit tricky... Bene I can appreciate that. As there are some new people here (welcome!) let me just remind you all that if your post has nothing directly to do with Joni, to please put NJC in your subject line. Thanks! Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:55:43 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Njc Human species 'may split in two' At the end of the article it refers to BRAVO as a "men's channel". ??? I had no clue. I like Bravo. Its mighty annoying for sure (at least for me), when beings I interpret as very different from myself (at least as far as body type) are predicted to inherit the good life. Maybe the Bible needs to add a Beatitude for the short and squatty, to fly in the face of these predictions that seem to favor the tall and thin. I have not reproduced myself (i.e. had a kid), for several reasons, not the least of which is that I got no money, honey. But if I had, I *probably* would have sought out a tall male to mingle my genes with. Life is easier usually, for tall people. For instance, right now in 2006 there are motorcycle with 40 inch seat heights. 40 inches!!!!!!!!!!!!! The SEAT is 40 inches off the ground! That's only 22 inches below the top of my head! So there's a big "screw you" to short people. No adventure tourers for you! Nein! I would have liked to have produced a child who could buy jeans off the shelf that didn't have to have a 30 inch inseam taken up. There's another thing, jeans makers favor tallish people. Do they honestly think no one has a shorter inseam than 30 inches????? They must come from planet Arian. Anyway, whatever. I only have 50 more years or so to go on this planet, in this life. For now it doesn't bother me. Here in Tampa FL there are planty of shorter people. I guess the average height for caribbean-heritaged women of essentially Spanish extraction is right about my 5'2". I hope the future will not be so hellish for the pony breed humans, as the article suggests. And what's with the humped over sh_t? Why would the shorter ones be all hunched over like that? wierd..... I'm listening to Paprika PLains as I type this.... LOL!!!!!!!!! I never listen to Paprika Plains! it just came on my iTunes. neat huh? My fave iTunes segueway last week was Tim Curry's CBSASF and then right after that it went into "Coal Tattoo" by Judy Collins. It KICKED ASS!!!!!! whew...wierd combo but it really worked. I wonder if they will continue to breed neat little horses, or if they too will end up all rangy and lanky. hmmmmm.... Anyway, I can't be too pissed off about the whole thing - altho it is irritating and I would like to put a fart cushion where the theory guy sits. At least he admits the future people will be brownish. The thing I find odd too, is that the tall people he mentions - I already "see" people of that type around...but not the short one in the illustration. That looks like a mini caveman, right? So would that be a step BACK? hmmm.... ok, enough from me... Em, short but still able to smile and glad I don't live in the future "The more you eat the more you shit" ...Woody Guthrie - --- Andeemac2006 wrote: > This is a email i sent to Oliver Curry of the London School of > Economics o.s.curry@lse.ac.uk > in reply to this article on the BBC web site > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm > > > "The descendants of the genetic upper class would be tall, slim, > healthy, attractive, intelligent, and creative and a far cry from the > "underclass" humans who would have evolved into dim-witted, ugly, > squat goblin-like creatures. ..snip... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: drummer boy, njc My fave has always been "Good King Wencezlas" (sp?). Lots of neat things about it, but I am truly geeked by the line "freeze thy blood less coldly". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! its great!!! I mean, once its frozen, its frozen, right??? Freeze it less coldly would mean so it might thaw out sooner? or? I wish Florida would make that the state motto and put it in curved letter on our license plates. Oh but wait, more people might come here then. Never mind! :P Em - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > >>-the annoying drummer boy > > >I share your disdain for that really annoying song, > >but at least it's balanced by the other stuff. > > > I like the song. > : -) > > > well, I don't prefer anything about kings or anything. . never had > (no kings > for me). . I still think it is pretty. . . > > > XOXO > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:22:41 -0600 From: "mia _" Subject: Subject: RE: NJC Tom Waits - now critics Jim wrote: <> Great idea! The pretentiousness of some of these critics makes me sick. The same goes for movie critics. I'll start: Dear Roger Ebert, Not all movies have to be artsy fartsy or pseudo-intellectual to be good. Take for example, my favorite comedy of all time: The Money Pit. You gave it a whopping ONE star and ripped it to shreds. There is no other movie that makes me laugh as hysterically as this one. The only bad thing about it is the dated 1980's feel. If you read the reviews at Amazon.com, Epinions.com, and YouTube.com you will see that other viewers rate this comedy highly, too. In fact, I have woken myself up from my sleep laughing about this movie. It is only the critics who have blasted the movie. Is that why you could not enjoy it? Have you never experienced the stress of a relationship that comes to fruition during a remodeling project and the ridiculousness that comes out of that stress? Have you never dealt with contractors just as goofy and smug as the ones in this movie? C'mon! The characters, dialogue, and flawless comedic timing did not make you laugh? Really? You need to get out of the office more often! Mia _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:44:27 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Njc Human species 'may split in two' On Nov 19, 2006, at 12:42 AM, Andeemac2006 wrote: > > "The descendants of the genetic upper class would be tall, slim, > healthy, attractive, intelligent, and creative and a far cry from > the "underclass" humans who would have evolved into dim-witted, > ugly, squat goblin-like creatures. > Physical appearance, driven by indicators of health, youth and > fertility, will improve, he says, while men will exhibit > symmetrical facial features, look athletic, and have squarer jaws, > deeper voices and bigger penises???. " > > This has to be some sort of joke, I suppose you fall in the " tall > slim healthy attractive intelligent" category dont you, and I > suppose your saying that everybody that works at Tesco- Wallmart > will be the Slave goblin underclass. > > I take interest in where you work London School of Economics > Because some say we have reached this point now, there is almost a > underclass now isnt there, and you know the powers that be want to > keep it that way as long as possible . > In the USA where I live the Stock Market is booming, but there is > hardly any Drip down of its benifits to the Middle to lower classes > to the out and out poor, all of the profits go to the Genetic Upper > Class slim healthy ( appropriate in the USA because 45 million in > the USA dont have Medical Insurance) with big penises!!!!! > > I could be wrong tell me If I am,:- but you seem to be expressing > your desires for your class in future times, you know going back to > the Uppper classes having slaves, ie Ugly Dwarfs, I find it > difficult to understand how you keep your job with comments like " > look athletic, and have squarer jaws, deeper voices and bigger > penises." in your thesis, > > My construcive opinion on were your thesis falls down is because in > the USA if you follow current trends of skilled workers being laid > of more and more, by the year 3000 there will be a ratio of even > 70% Dwarfs to the Genetic upper class's 30% at least and accepting > that Democracy will still exist, Or are you saying that the > Goblins wont be entitled to a vote ??? > Your lot will be on a downer wont it and DWARFS WILL RULE OK, what > utter nonsense, > ------------------------ > What do you think, I find it an insult for this article to be on > the BBC web site in the first place I read this article and I think you're totally taking his statements out of context to politicize them. 1000 years from now Bush and Iraq will be a little blip on the timeline, if even that. I think you're reading too much into this article, using it for your own agenda. "However, Dr Curry warns, in 10,000 years time humans may have paid a genetic price for relying on technology." Are you going to be around then? Maybe you can let us all know what happens. Victor NP: ESPN ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:48:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: RE: NJC Tom Waits - now critics and non-art films - --- mia _ wrote: > Dear Roger Ebert, > > Not all movies have to be artsy fartsy or > pseudo-intellectual to be good. > Take for example, my favorite comedy of all time: > The Money Pit. You gave > it a whopping ONE star and ripped it to shreds. > There is no other movie > that makes me laugh as hysterically as this one. There are lots of very goofy, very funny, very unartsy movies that I love to bits. Napoleon Dynamite is one of them and it's probably one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. The newer one by the same director (whose name I don't remember) is Nacho Libre and I laughed a lot at that, although I didn't like it quite as much as ND. The politically correct side of me says maybe I shouldn't be laughing at some of the dumb stuff in that film, but I don't care. Jack Black is obnoxious as all get out, and I can just imagine what he was like in school, but he makes me laugh. And the choice of odd-looking quirky and, for the most part, extremely low-key, laid-back types for actors (with the exception of Jack Black, of course) is great. There's something very endearing about them and that cancels out any potential non-PC-ness. I can't look at Jack Black, Bill Murray or Peter Sellers without wanting to laugh, even in their more serious roles. And I love the spoofs of art films done by French and Saunders or the SNL crew. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:52:10 -0600 From: "mia _" Subject: RE: Streisand Fan Group in EW (NJC)...and OJ When I first read: "...have scrapbooks of themselves photographed in Barbra related scenes (house where she filmed this or that)" I mistakenly thought these fanatics were cutting and pasting scenes from a movie and inserting their own pictures into the scenes. Now that would be over the top! (hee, hee) When I re-read, I realized, no, they probably went on a tour of a house and had themselves photographed in it. But, I probably WOULD do that if I toured Joni's house - LOL! Bree wrote:<> Me, too, Bree. I find it very distasteful that Fox will be running this interview on the air. What a network will do for money! Plus they're in cahoots with the book publishing company. Here's how Judith Regan defends her decision to publish and interview: "I made the decision to publish this book, and to sit face to face with the killer," Regan said, "because I wanted him, and the men who broke my heart and your hearts, to tell the truth, to confess their sins, to do penance and to amend their lives. Amen." Gag... Mia _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:01:17 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Atlantic Station Lighting (njc) The gig for the lighting of Atlantic Station went really well. They were a bit behind schedule but we got on stage about 7:00 and sang 9 carols including "Lo A Rose...", "Angels we have heard on High", etc. It was very hard to hear even though we had monitors as they were bit ringy and there was so much noise in the background. But friends in the crowd said we sound great. It was totally packed, very crowded. After we sang the Boy's Choir of Atlanta did "The Bell Song" and then Shawn Mullins and his band did a nice version of "Happy Xmas (War is Over)" with a makeshift chorus behind them. I was glad he did that song as it emphasizes a desire for peace. There was an hour and half wait for a table at Strip so we left before they flicked the switch and lit the 50,000 some odd lights. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 08:51:38 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg Subject: Re: Your email Hi Bene I hope you don't mind me replying to you and putting this on the Joni List at the same time. My father was brilliant, but my mother isn't the brightest spark. My parents'first baby boy died (this was in 1956, i think) and they were told they'd never be able to have children.So my theory is that they applied for adoption then. They had two girl-children before Margot was born (my twinsiter). I ostensibly spent the first month of my life in hospital, with a broken leg , but i don't think this was fom the birth, whoc is what my mother told me. My family told me much later, when I was diagnosed with having scoliosis, that they were told that I might have to be put in traction later like a kid we knew who had polio, at some late point of my life. i have been in psychotherapy. With the exception of one song, I see the songs I've written as an inspiration from a different realm, and though addressed to my therapist, as actually being to my mother or about her. So my therapy relationship was exceptonally productive- she specialised in self-psychology. The she left in 2001 and I was alone and abandoned once more. Since I haven't written even one songs (worth keeping). The blood test was a DNA test. but my mother prefers to tell white lies, and insists I am 'her child'. But she has asked me who I think my real parenmts were, once when I was in hospital, and I said Stevie Wonder and Joan armatrading!I sang at eight months old, doh a dear apparently. i have often -especialyl ina heigtehended state, been very angry towards my mother- in fact i possibly am all the time, with her not being open with me. My oldest sister is a psychologist, and they are now helping me out in a big way (her and her husband) She didn't even know I was adopted, but i am unlike her, or them all especially, and she has a scientific side so acknowledges the blood test. I am sorry that you have these bouts of depression. I think one does see the world in a distorted way, but it is a accurate emotional reality. i misinterpret peope, as not liking me. Have just recently been put on an anti-depressant which made me see it's not like that, but then I went a bit manic, and was taken off. Thanks for telling me about the book. I haven't read much literature on depresion a such, thinking it deals with the symptom or the description but not the fact that the pain comes from a cause, and that you can perhaps do someting about it directly.I have a four year degree in mathematics, so haven't been mentally paralysed by my illness.I'v just been furtrated and depressed all my life long.I also started a masters in financial mathematics, but had a breakdwon. i always fall in love at vasity (Help Me! I think I'm falling in love again!)and feel stressed out by people. But am better now.I also don't like working (studying) and would perhaps now only do a PhD in Probability theory if I ould do it part-time and be left alone. coursework doesn't suit me. The mathematiucs department a UCT (and Unisa) really respect me)They'll always take me back, and keep doing so, no matter how public my breakdwons I'm hoping that the cod-liver oil works for you. I myself dont take supplements.Not all psychiatrists are shallow. i have had a few really admirable wome psuchiatrsist, and one or two admirable male psychiatrists and a psychologist. Thanks for liking'Lochrenbird"". A friend used to call me that. if ever you want to chat, I can do so, as I like communicating. thank you for your thoughts, and feedback, and interest.I just thougt I'd send the above to the List as I perhaps need to do some explaining of some madness I have displayed. Ingrid - ----- Original Message ---- From: "missblux@googlemail.com" To: Ingrid Lochrenberg Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:01:54 PM Subject: Re: Your email Hey... actually, I was wondering if you were already taking medication. It seems that many people who are adopted tend to feel alone and tend to be aggressive towards their real mother, in some cases it could be triggered by her being anxious about not being able to provide for the adopted baby. So the mother's insecurities are transplanted to the baby. Why does your family not believe you? Did you have a DNA test made? It sounds a bit weird that your mother would adopt and have your 'twin' sister at the same time, but then everything is possible. One of my friends is schizophrenic. His mother had a birth-psychosis afther having him, so would not recognize him as her own. Nowadays she does, but the relationship between them is very difficult. At times, just having to spend Christmas with her will send him straight off to hospital. I was just wondering if your feeling of loneliness came from something similar. Supposing your mother did give birth to you but couldn't cope with two babies at the same time. If you have fragile mind, then it is likely that your mother does, too. Have you ever had psychotherapy, or have you only been given medication? I so often find that once people are diagnosed with mental disorders, they are put in some category of 'helpless' people that just need to take medication and that's it. I read one book about depression which I found really helpful. David Burns "Feeling Good", its about cognitive therapy. It teaches you how to think more clearly about your problems and to identify depressive thinking. He basically says that depression is an illness that causes you to see the world in a distorted way. I don't have a mental disorder but I get severely depressed at times. This book didn't solve all my problems, but it made me see many things in a different light. I read somewhere that cod-liver oil is good for depressive people, btw. One of my friends went on holiday with a couple of psychiatrists, and they were completely unbearable. I've seen the correpsondence between them following a drama they had; and these people are so without any sort of self-awareness it is shocking. That is why I think it is so important that people try to take control of their own lives and try to seek alternative ways of building up themselves. Anyway, enough of this! I am glad you are taking control! And I think lochrenbird is a quite pretty name! Bene On 11/19/06, Ingrid Lochrenberg wrote: Thank you for your concern and thoughts. I have been in a state for a few days, but have gone back on my medication, and am far better now.I have had a blood test done between my mother and 'twinsiter 'and I which shows that I have am unrelated to them (everything in my life has been trying and quite complicated. i am for instance, going to be talking seriously to the technical department of my bank, the standard bank, for not responding swiftly to my telling them that I had a spoof site...in told the guy that's at the head of the technical depertment that I was goingto sue him. i mightl, but doing so isn't a priority in my life. i have otherprioties, like geting in real direct contact with my real mother, something which has been a big thing in my lif. My fisrt breakdwon was a depressive psychosis. i have been diagnosed as bipolar but the lasting diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, but the first breakdwon was a depressive psychosis coming about from feeling so alone and without comfort.I've smoked dope only on about two or three occaions in m life 9it only made me a bit sleepy the last ime) and I have never done psychodelic drugs I am essentially not a paranoid operson at all. i just get upset and overwhelmed with aloness and the obstackes in my way to findingsomeone who will love me- which I think will be my real mother. I am eating far better since september. thank you for everything... ingrid - ----- Original Message ---- From: " missblux@googlemail.com" To: lochrenbird@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 4:13:57 PM Subject: Your email Hi Ingrid I sent this, but forgot to pur your name in the to-field. It's for you! - ---------- Forwarded message - ---------- From: missblux@googlemail.com Date: Nov 19, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #436 To: joni@smoe.org Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ingrid Lochrenberg < lochrenbird@yahoo.com> Subject: who will help me My mother refuses to acknowledge that I was adopted (my father has passed away) and my family use my protestations to have me committed to psychiatric establishmenst and institutions. Who will help me? - -------------------------------------------- Dear Ingrid, Just because you feel unconnected it doesn't mean that you are adopted. I think you are having a lot of trouble understanding what is going on around you; and I think some of these problems can be solved if you see a psychiatrist. If you have experiences like thinking that people at telkom are watching you or are trying to get at you then you need to talk to a psychiatrist about that. I have a friend who used to think the CIA were watching her, in her own home, and she said people in the street would say strange things to her. She saw a psychiatrist, and it helped a lot. I think you should talk to someone about this. People on this list are kind, and your family are the ones who care about you the most. You should take their advice. Just don't let psychiatry run your life. What I know from people who take psychofarmaca is that it will turn them into very dull people if they don't take some control themselves. You can improve your mood a lot by eating right, exercising, walk at the beach as you do, listen to good music, and it is also important that you don't begin to self-medicate by smoking and drinking a lot. All these substances that you can get addicted to make matters worse. You are obviously a very vibrant person, I hope you will get through this. Take care, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:03:37 -0600 From: "mia _" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: NJC Tom Waits - now critics and non-art films Catherine wrote:<> Yeah, I say screw the "politically correct side-i-ness" of us all when it comes to comedy. If a comedy makes you laugh, then it was effective! I like Jack Black, too, though I haven't seen Napoleon Dynamite or Nacho Libre, yet. Now I'll have something to look forward to when next weekend rolls around. Mia _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:19:30 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Oliver Curry's original paper (njc) I did a little research and found that the story the BBC posted was not the original paper written by Oliver Curry. I think it misrepresented him as he was not trying to make specific predictions but present ideas of the course evolution might take. If anything, its interesting reading for sure. That's why I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions and make judgements about people based on what I read from a newspaper article. The original paper is below. Victor The Bravo Evolution Report [written by Oliver Curry] October 2006 Introduction What course will human evolution take in the future? What will humans be like after a thousand years? Ten thousand? One hundred thousand? A million? Itbs impossible to say for sure -- but we can make some educated guesses. Letbs begin by making sure that we understand what evolution is and how it works. What is evolution? Evolution refers to gradual change in the appearance and behaviour of organisms, brought about by changes in their genes. Genes can be thought of as instructions for building organisms. Occasionally, random copying errors b mutations -- give rise to novel genes, and hence novel instructions, which build slightly different organisms. Most mutations are harmful; but some constitute improvements and succeed in getting more copies of themselves into the next generation than do other genes. For example, suppose that, in a population of deer, a mutant gene for building a longer neck appears. And suppose that deer with this gene for longer necks can eat more leaves, and consequently have more offspring -- which inherit genes for longer necks -- than do deer with shorter necks. Over time, the gene for longer necks will spread, until all the deer have longer necks. This is evolution in action. Itbs that simple. The first thing to realise about evolution is that it takes a very long time. To put things in perspective: life began about four billion years ago; mammals evolved about 200 million years ago; primates evolved about 50 million years ago; humans and chimpanzees split about 6 million years ago; and humans have been around in their present form for about 100,000 years. So we shouldnbt expect any dramatic evolutionary changes in humans any time soon. Changes in humans over the past century b their becoming taller, healthier, more intelligent -- are due not to biological evolution, but to changes in their living conditions in the wake of the industrial revolution. Similarly, most of the changes that we will see in the next millennia will be the products not of natural selection, but of genetic modification and artificial selection for the traits that we find desirable. The second thing to realise about evolution is that there is no guarantee that things will continue to get bbetterb b that humans will continue to get more attractive, more intelligent or more long-lived. The value of investments can go up as well as down. If uglier, stupider, short-lived humans have more offspring, and these traits are inherited, then humans will get uglier, stupider, and shorter lived. Thatbs how evolution works. And of course, there is no guarantee that humans will be around at all in the future b we may go extinct. We may blow ourselves up, get hit by an asteroid, or be eaten by an alien race. In order to predict the course of evolution, we need to know two things: Which mutations will arise? And: What conditions will humans will be living under in the future? It is not possible in principle to predict either of these things: mutations are inherently random; and our living conditions will depend in large part on what technology gets invented (and you cannot know what will be discovered in the future). Nevertheless, we can use some of the basic principles of the theory of evolution to sketch some plausible scenarios for humans over the next thousand, ten thousand, one hundred thousand, and one million years. One thousand years A thousand years time will mark the peak of human benhancementb. People of the year 3,000 will lead the longest, healthiest, most accomplished lives ever. This will be the result of advances in our understanding of human nature b our evolved biology and psychology. We will we have the potential to create the ideal conditions in which humans can flourish b the right diets, the most effective means of education, the best habitats and so on. Improved diets and nutrition will see people grow taller. Men will be between 6-7ft on average. We will also be living longer: up to around 120 years old. We will also be able to provide technological enhancements to human nature b through genetic engineering, cybernetic implants, and so on. Body upgrades and enhancements will be driven largely by our evolved mate preferences. Fashions may come and go, but our evolved, hard-wired sense of beauty remains constant. Men everywhere find the following physical cues of youth, health and fertility attractive in women: a 0.7 waste-to-hip ratio, lighter-than-average skin colour, smooth hairless skin, glossy hair, symmetry, large clear eyes, low testosterone (eg, small chin), pert breasts and nulliparity. In the future we can expect to see women 'modifying' themselves to fit in with these preferences. (They already do to some extent -- that's what make-up, cosmetic surgery, corsets, and hair conditioner are for. But in the future, technology will allow them to do so more easily and effectively.) And we can expect to see men modifying themselves to fit in with the physical cues of health and status that women everywhere find attractive: a 0.9 waste-to-hip ratio, taller- than-average, symmetry, cues of high testosterone (for example, square jaw, deep voice, bigger penis), and athleticism. This enhancement is not, strictly speaking, evolution; rather, it reflects the fact that we will know how to get the most from our existing biology. We will be pushing the limits of what's possible with our current DNA. There will, however, be at least one genetic change in near future: in a thousand years, differences in skin colour will be a distant memory. Biology tells us that braceb is only skin deep. Superficial regional variation in skin colour masks the fact that we are all members of the same species, we share a universal human nature, we even share the same great-great-great-b&- grandparent perhaps as recently as 3,500 years ago. In the future, advances in communications and transport mean that the human gene pool -- which started out united, but has spent the past few thousand years divided -- will flow back together again. And so we can expect existing regional variation in skin colour to get smoothed out and averaged: our descendants to have coffee-coloured skin. Ten thousand years It is often assumed that bcultural evolutionb goes hand in hand with biological evolution, and that advances in technology will help humans to evolve faster and better. But this is not necessarily the case; in fact, the opposite may be true. The more we rely on technology, the more our genes are off the hook. This is great in the short term: individuals with genes that, for example, predispose them to skin cancer can use sunblock. But this is not so good in the long- term: genes for skin cancer are no longer weeded out of the gene pool. Multiply this across every domain in which humans get a technological helping hand, and you can see how we may be storing up trouble for the future. For example, advances in fertility treatments allow people who would otherwise not have had offspring to do so. This means that, in the future, infertility will rise. As a result, we will be increasingly reliant on transfer of nuclear DNA into thriving donor gametes, artificial insemination, surrogate mothers, and perhaps artificial wombs. And, because the size of infants will continue to rise, natural mothers will also have to resort more to caesarian sections. Reliance on technology might also lead us to lose some of our natural abilities. Our obsession with hygiene, and increased reliance on medicine, will allow our immune systems to atrophy; we will perhaps be reduced to walking around in hermetically-sealed bubbles, breathing through filtering respirators. Advances in computing might allow us to communicate with others using only our thoughts. This might allow our vocal chords -- and the brain areas and muscles that control them -- to atrophy. (Thus, men would lose their Adam's Apple.) Women might increasingly find men attractive not for their deep voices or large vocabulary, but for their deep thoughts and colourful imagination. More alarmingly, the more we rely on technology to help us, the less we will rely on other people. And, because humans evolved their moral instincts on order to get along with others, perhaps our moral sentiments will evaporate. Emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect b which currently motivate us to care for families, to be a good team-player, to trade favours, and to resolve conflicts b may fade away, leaving humans much more selfish and self-centred than they are now. Genetic engineering may allow us to replace faulty stretches of DNA. If these stretches of DNA come boff the shelfb of a central repository b a future NHS? -- then we might all end up with more similar genes, and become more homogenous. We would look and think the same way. And so, in ten thousand yearsb time, humanity may adopt some of the characteristics of domesticated animals: enfeebled, ineffectual, pampered, homogenous, spoilt, and juvenile. One hundred thousand years Evolution is not just about survival: it is also about reproduction. And competition for mates is one of the most potent forces driving the evolution of new kinds of features and creatures. It has given rise to some of the most dramatic adaptations in the natural world b the peacockbs tail, the nightingalebs song, and the stagbs antlers. In humans, it has been argued that the competition for mates is responsible for many of our most superlative features b our extra- large brains, for example. Our ancestors used their brains as multi- media entertainment systems to amuse and seduce the opposite sex; those who could tell the funniest stories, paint the most evocative pictures, or use the longest words, succeeded in attracting more (or higher quality) mates, and having more offspring. Competition for mates has also been used to explain our unusual penises and breasts: human males have the largest penises of all primates, and human females the largest breasts. For thousands of generations, women have been choosing as partners men whose penises b especially if and when erect b demonstrated their health and vigour. And men have been choosing women whose full, symmetrical breasts signalled their youth, fertility, and underlying genetic health. Mating is also the most likely candidate for driving human evolution over the next 100,000 years. This is especially so given that, in one big gene pool, extreme individuals can mate with other extreme individuals. So, once upon a time, the best male tennis player in the world would never have met the best female tennis player. But now, thanks to international tournaments and the like, players such as Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf can meet, mate, and produce super-tennis-playing offspring. Or Brad Pitt can meet Angelina Jolie and have super-attractive children. One could imagine that this process, taking place over the next 100,000 years, will create more and more genetic inequality, and with it social and economic inequality b so much so that the circles in which the genetic elites move become ever more exclusive, until they lose contact altogether with the rest of society, and come to constitute their own bcelebrityb gene pool. At this point we may begin to see a parting of the ways between the genetic 'haves' and the genetic 'have-nots'. People with the best genes will have chosen to mate with eachother, leaving the rest to mate amongst themselves. This "assortative mating" increases the degree of genetic inequality in the population, and creates the conditions for "sympatric speciation" -- that is, the formation of new species in the same geographical location. This could lead to new varieties of human: the bgracileb descendants of a genetic upper class and the brobustb descendants of a genetic underclass. The genetic 'haves' will tend to be tall, thin, symmetrical, clean, healthy, intelligent and creative. The genetic 'have-nots' will be short, stocky, asymmetrical, grubby, unhealthy and less intelligent. Much longer term, this could create a situation reminiscent of that portrayed in HG Wellsb The Time Machine. In this classic work of science fiction, a Victorian time-traveller fast-forwards to the year 802,701 AD, and finds Earth inhabited by two species of human: the elfin Eloi and the brutish Morlocks. One million years Let us suppose that, one million years into the future humans (or at least the Eloi) have reached and begun to colonise other planets in other solar systems; that these planets, though chosen because they resemble Earth, nevertheless vary in terms of their gravity, their day length, their eco-systems and climate; and that these planets are too far apart to permit any significant migration. This would create the classic conditions for full-blown speciation. New species emerge when a gene-pool is divided, and the two newly separated gene pools evolve in different directions. Suppose, for example, that our population of deer ends up on two sides of a river, and only one side of the river has the tall trees that make it an advatage to have longer necks. We might imagine that only one population evolves longer. When members of the different populations can no longer breed with one another, a new species is said to have emerged b perhaps in this case, the giraffe. Darwinbs finches provide the classic real-world example of speciation. Here, an ancestral species of finch arrived and colonised the various different islands that make up the Galapagos. The different populations then proceeded to evolve into thirteen distinct species b each with a different shaped beak that had been designed by natural selection to exploit a particular type of food b nuts, seeds, insects, larvae, and so on. Divided by oceans of empty space, our distant descendants would find themselves in a similar situation. We should expect to see different species of humans adapting to their local planetary environments. Descendants who end up on big, slow, heavy, dark cold planets might come to resemble modern day Inuits: short, stocky, with slow metabolisms, longer circadian rhythms, and pale skin. Those who end up on small, fast, light, warm planets might come to resemble the fabled Nubians: tall, thin, with fast metabolisms, shorter circadian rhythms, and darker skin. In all cases, we should expect the different populations of humans to adapt their metabolism to the peculiarities of the local foodstuffs, and the local atmosphere; and to adapt their immune systems to local diseases. Under these conditions we would see the evolution of new species of humans, perhaps named after their celestial location: perhaps Homo andromeda, Homo betelgeuse. Our own species, Homo sapiens, would be long gone. The future So, these might be some of the highs and lows of human evolution over the next million years. But remember, that there is nothing inevitable about the evolutionary process. It is not aiming at anything, it has no goals, and no inertia. What evolves will be a product of the mutations that arise, and the circumstances in which they find themselves. To the extent that we will be able to invent new genes, and to create our own conditions, we have some control over our future. In this sense, the future is not a place that we will go to, it is a thing that we will build. Further Reading Buss, D. M. (1994). The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of human mating. New York: Basic Books/HarperCollins. Dawkins, R. (2005). The Ancestor's Tale: Phoenix. Ellis, B. J. (1992). The Evolution of Sexual Attraction: Evaluative mechanisms in women. In J. H. Barkow, L. Cosmides & J. Tooby (Eds.), The Adapted Mind: Evolutionary psychology and the generation of culture (pp. 267-288). New York: Oxford University Press. Hamilton, W. D. (1997-). Narrow Roads of Gene Land: The Collected Papers of W.D.Hamilton: W H Freeman and Stockton Press. Miller, G. F. (2000). The Mating Mind. London: William Heinemann. Pinker, S. (2002). The Blank Slate: The modern denial of human nature. London: Allen Lane. Ridley, M. (1996). The Origins of Virtue: Penguin. Tooby, J., & Cosmides, L. (1990). On the universality of human nature and the uniqueness of the individual: the role of genetics and adaptation. Journal of Personality, 58(1 - March), 17-67. Wells, H. G. (1895/2005). The Time Machine: Penguin. Williams, G. C. (1957). Pleiotropy, natural selection and the evolution of senescence. Evolution and Cognition, 11, 398-411. o?< ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #437 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------