From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #405 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 28 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 405 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave [Benedicte Nielsen ] NJC at all, Blixavision and not bothering with metaphors for the in-crowd [Benedicte Nielsen ] Joni currency ["Patti Parlette" ] RE: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave ["Azeem" ] lieberman, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: NJC a little shameless promotion for my friends coming down to nyc [] nick drake not cave and then kralling in the dorkness NJC [mags h ] Re: Marcie [LCStanley7@aol.com] NJC Cave and God and other dark romanticists [Benedicte Nielsen ] The Great Sweet Divide (Totally Joni Now) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and God ["ron" ] The LOL Joni Songs [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and God ["Sherelle Smith" ] RE: njc, Barack Obama & Lieberman ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Is Joni REALLY doing a new album??? [Chris Marshall ] njc, debt ["Marianne Rizzo" ] If Joni were a baseball fan... [Victor Johnson ] Re: njc, Barack Obama & Lieberman ["Patti Parlette" Subject: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Marcie A couple of years ago i had a conversation with a friend, a lovely girl, a very bright girl, and she was about to get married then and the topic of betrayal came up, and so naturally we were talking about cheating husbands, cheating wives, you know, and then she suddenly said something like "well there's the worst kind of betrayal - and that is when your partner dies". I'll never forget that. Nuri - ------------------- When my father died I received a letter of condolency from someone who said his own father died when he was quite young. I was quite startled with what he said: It is terrible, because who can you trust, then? I think little children feel like that when their parents die, but one of my fathers close friends sent a letter in which he said, among other things, that to be honest, he sometimes got really pissed off with him for leaving him like that (he died of natural causes). I don't think I've lost trust in people from seeing relatives die. But in a strange way it has made me make up my mind more quickly about what people I can be bothered with and what people I can't be bothered with. A bit weird to sign up to a mailing list full of strangers then...?? - ---- About Marcie: now that we are discussing Nick Cave as well: does anyone know what that song "Black Hair" is about? A black-haired girl who left him? Or is he flirting with death? It ends with: Today she took a train to the West ... that's the Marice-relevance. I don't know that song (Feelings), but man I'm not sure I'm in the mood for listening, it's the saddest ever autumn here! Beneluxurously ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2006 13:04:44 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: NJC at all, Blixavision and not bothering with metaphors for the in-crowd Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: NJC at all, Nick Cave and Blixavision Nuri wrote >>>"Now wasn't Blixa the first thing i wrote about in my first post to you, Bene?:)))) Bene wrote... >> Uhm... or maybe we watch the same TV programs, because when you tried to >> fool me into thinking you and everyone else on the list apart for me and Bob were Blixa, the Zuerich Hausfrau, you didn't succeed because I had just seen Blixa Bargeld on TV and he was not a Hausfrau, not a Frau at all. Im just dang smart, that's one thing I've got." Nuri wrote > hehehe... Well i hate saying that, Bene, but i did fool you. Seems to > me that you didn't and still don't understand what the "everyone is Blixa" metaphor was all about. Others did, though. If you're dang smart then maybe someday you'll understand. To which I can only say that I am _absolutely_ not bovva, which you'd know if you could see my face. Why would I be bovva with your metaphors, huh. >>"Happy days in Nuristan" > Happy days in Benelux Hehe I like that one... Blux (who saw the new Catherine Tate show on Thursday and was not really amused) ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2006 13:18:00 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: NJC at all, Nick Cave and Blixavision On Oct 27 2006, ron wrote: >hi > > >> (Bene:) "Blixa Bargeld, who is also in Einstuerzende Neubauten which is I >> guess as experimental as it gets" >> > (Ron:) & tying this all together - with members from the bad seeds & > einstuerzende neubauten - crime & the city solution: > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayQoaq2R3a4 > > >ron > - -------------------------- Hum... Nuri says his fans are divided. As I said in a previous mail I am thinking of seeing him in Bonn with a friend. I think he and I belong to different sides of the divide - this clip is a bit to far on the introvert side for me, but I think my friend will like it... Something about being on a mailing list like this one made me think of "the kindness of strangers". Its a funny coincidence Ron that you send me a link to a song called "stranger than kindness". Bene (I'm usually not big on literary references but this one is from A Streetcar named Desire by Tennessee Williams "I've always relied on the kindness of strangers") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:23:15 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: sherelle smith njc Hi Mack: I felt like I was with you, overwhelmed by too much stress inside and outside one's head (and heart), and the family stuff (all trouble in their faces, all anxious voices), *plus* having to drive with that neurotic craziness between the fine white lines of the freeway. Spinning out on turns that gets you tough. Sometimes there is just no refuge in the roads. But then........ along comes the peace and the star......voila Sherelle, to be your refuge and your strength on your Night Ride Home. Beautiful! Thank you for sharing that. Another lesson in survival. Do what you love, in between the stress and the hard stuff. Love, Patti P. in CT, where it's raining cats and dog eat dogs, but it is Saturday (blessed Saturday!), so I get to crawl back under the covers and stay out of the breakdown of this century for a little while longer. Mmmmmmm.......heavenly peace. Like Graham sang, "who can hurt you in your bed?" I wish you all the same feeling. A day with elderly mother and troubled family. Exhausted and stress too great to express here in words in such a short space. Trouble at home, work the usual grind that would make hair be pulled out if enough remained to matter. Mountains of problems weighing down upon the head. Into car to return home and faced with the long highway and the neurotic craziness that it causes in the head of someone that inherited fear of driving. Cell phone in hand and friends waiting for the call I would not make while driving. Searching through the cd's looking for something to salve, something to caress, something to help, something!!!!!!!!!! None would do, needed a friend. And then............... Sherelle, sweet Sherelle. Into the player she went and then it all didn't seem quite so powerful and the darkness held much less power. She took me home, the entire length. Thank ya darling. _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:46:06 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni currency Ah, Joni love sucked me back this way, to my blue-screened computer. "Some Millers" wrote: Don't forget the mother lode of currency referred to in DED's "Tax Free". "Multiple hundreds of thousands of..." Tax free "Hundreds and millions of dollars" Tax free "A hundred billion dollars!" DING DING DING DING DING! (in a bell jar) (no tongue in the bell) Ladies (of the Canyon) and (sixteen) Gentlemen! We have a winner! Congratulations, Some Miller! For love, or MONEY, Patti P. "Another Mother (lode) for Peace" _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:18:29 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave << now that we are discussing Nick Cave as well: does anyone know what that song "Black Hair" is about? A black-haired girl who left him? Or is he flirting with death? >> Although it's usually perilous to ascribe particular inspirations to particular songs, it's probably safe to state that Black Hair was written about Polly Harvey (ie PJ Harvey), with whom Nick Cave had a relationship some time in the 90s. West Country Girl, from the same album, is very likely also about her. Azeem in London NP: Gemma Hayes - Let A Good Thing Go - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 27/10/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:22:23 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: lieberman, njc >Lieberman's *record*, and rightly so....he missed 309 votes in the last 4 >years....he supports the war....he has never in his 18 years supported >universal health care....he was the only New England democrat to vote for >the Bush-Cheney energy bill which contains BILLIONS in subsidies for oil >and >gas companies (like they need it!!!) and does little for conservation and >clean energy. Not to mention that ole Joe voted for the torture bill. he's a hawk (padon me real life beautiful hawks- the birds don't deserve the bad rap) but he's a hawk and he doesn't even have sheeps clothing he's a republican now joe cannot fool us anymore. . . he's got the wrong ticket in his hand.. he should have never stood beside my friend Al "flim flam man" _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: Re: NJC a little shameless promotion for my friends coming down to nyc thanks Sherelle, your kind and supportive words are much appreciated. When Keith and Renee were down in Philadelphia, their entire trailer full of equipment was stolen, so Im glad to see they have braved that storm and are ready to "carry on". You can find Keith on "youtube" , a couple of his Canadian Idol songs are on there. love, Mags Sherelle Smith wrote: Wish I could be there Mags! I love to support friends of friends! It keeps the circle going! I will keep them in my heart and think good thoughts for a great performance from them! Love, Sherelle Mags wrote: hey all, if anyone is able to...go and see Easily Amused in NYC Easily Amused WILL be performing Sunday October 29 at The Living Room, 8 pm in New York City! Keith and Renee are such sweethearts and would love to have a fine audience to perform for. Keith was in the finals for Canadian Idol . I know them personally, and they are wonderful folks. Hope to see you there!!! http://www.easilyamused.ca thank you.... Mags ~the night owl~ _________________________________________________________________ Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline bring the stars home www.stardome.ca - --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: nick drake not cave and then kralling in the dorkness NJC first of all, i must apologize to all of you alas and alack....for sooth and for shame, i wrote that i love nick cave's song northern skye, which is in fact, nick drake not cave. silly magsie...always getting my nicks in a knot :P as for kralling in the dorkness...i dont hear dork, i hear dark. mags, who is often in the dork as well. ;-D bring the stars home www.stardome.ca - --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:13:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: NJC at all, Blixavision and not bothering with metaphors for the in-crowd Benedicte wrote: "To which I can only say that I am _absolutely_ not bovva, which you'd know if you could see my face." Bene, don't you think it's time we let our friends undrestand what this "am i bothered" thing we keep talking about for more than a week now is all about? So, anyone not familiar with Lauren, the notorious "am i bothered" girl from the Catherine Tate show, here are three of her many skits: Things look bad in this skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8xzo-lk84 They get even worse in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMItfi2KGp0 And even worse in this skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyF-DsVCJOE I think everyone met a Lauren in their lives, don't you?:) Nuri - --------------------------------- Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new Yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:32:04 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Joni and God "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was going with the title as well as the actual song. Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 11:47:40 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Marcie Mack the knife wrote: >So abysmal et tragic the tune. Hiya Mackie, The words that stick with me throughout this song are: "Dust her tables with his shirt," "Down along the Hudson River," and "went west again." Marcie is always getting on with things like the river continuing to flow, despite him. She realizes his worthlessness as she uses his shirt to dust her table... it is just a rag now to her. She goes to where she's gone before in the process of getting over loss, west. I see focal direction in the song rather than being lost in an abyss. The missing that comes with a loss after getting over the denial that somebody isn't coming back and that the relationship isn't going to work out is a human thing, and the strong, like Marcie, work through it and live on. This song is a beautiful presentation of that process. I love the beauty of the open ending of going "west" because it leaves us to our own "west" rather than providing a limited solution toward overcoming loss. This song is a very colorful presentation of the survival / healing process in my opinion. There are many more "happy" colors than "sad" colors in the song: red, green, yellow cab, and the colors that go with flowers, the sky, peaches, summer, and the brightest of course... the west. I don't think this guy is "the one" as you suggest but rather one of maybe many whom she had hoped was "the one;" she's gone west before. He seems to me like he's just another shipyard in the cold she gets past. She ends up going west, as to California where the sun shines much more than in the cold northeast. Anger is a great motivator, and it moves her to go west "again," in freedom with new dreams as she takes care of herself as nobody else can. Just like Joni actually did, does, is. Yes, it is definitely one of Joni's finest songs in my mind. I love it, love to play it and sing it, meditate on it. When I do, I find an underlying focus beyond tragedy being the strength of Marcie to get on with things despite how this guy was a jerk and abandoned her. I'm inspired to play and sing it more than once when I do. Sometimes I've found an hour has passed, and I'm still singing and playing it over and over again. If it was simply a presentation of abyss and tragedy, I wouldn't be this inspired by it. I see it as giving the listeners hope for dealing with loss that comes for whatever reason. That's what it does for me. Joni had lots of losses and has always come through to smile again with the brilliant California sunshine smile she still has. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2006 17:07:35 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: NJC Cave and God and other dark romanticists On Oct 28 2006, Azeem wrote: ><< now that we are discussing Nick Cave as well: does anyone know what >that song "Black Hair" is about? A black-haired girl who left him? Or is >he flirting with death? >> > >Although it's usually perilous to ascribe particular inspirations to >particular songs, it's probably safe to state that Black Hair was >written about Polly Harvey (ie PJ Harvey), with whom Nick Cave had a >relationship some time in the 90s. West Country Girl, from the same >album, is very likely also about her. > >Azeem in London >NP: Gemma Hayes - Let A Good Thing Go > - -------------------------------------- Thanks! Its a strange song I think. Anyway, I found this website that links together a lot of artists that peole here love: Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, etc. I was never that interested in these things - who played with who etc. - but am beginning ot find it quite fascinating: http://hem.passagen.se/hehe/darkly_romantic_music.htm I copy this to Ron because it opens with a quotation from Nick Cave which is a good comment on how Into My Arms made it into our discussion about Joni an God (and because I'm keen on hearing if you liked the song!) "The Love Song must be born into the realm of the irrational, the absurd, the distracted, the melancholic, the obsessive, the insane, for the Love Song is the noise of love itself and love is, of course, a form of madness. Whether it be the love of God, or romantic, erotic love - these are manifestations of our need to be torn away from the rational, to take leave of our senses, so to speak. Love Songs come in many guises and are seemingly written for many reasons - as declarations or to wound - I have written songs for all of these reasons - but ultimately the Love Songs exist to fill, with language, the silence between ourselves and God, to decrease the distance between the temporal and the divine." Ok better get on with rela life now.... Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Joni and God From http://www.jonimitchell.com/glossary/entry.cfm?id=57: The following was submitted by Richard Flynn From the first chapter of Mingus's autobiography Beneath the Underdog (1971), a dialogue between Mingus and his psychiatrist: "Why don't you ever let me lie on the couch, doctor?" "You always choose the chair." "I feel you don't want me on the couch 'cause I'm colored and your white patients might be bugged." "Oh, Charles Mingus! You can lie on it, kick it, jump on it, get on it, get under it, turn it over, break it - and pay for it."' "Man, you're crazy! I'm gonna save you." "You're not trained to save. I am." "I can save you. Do you believe in God?" "Yes." "As a boogie man?" Sherelle Smith wrote: "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was going with the title as well as the actual song. Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 11:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The Great Sweet Divide (Totally Joni Now) Benedicte wrote: "Hum... Nuri says his (Bene was talking about Nick Cave's - not mine, hehe) fans are divided. As I said in a previous mail I am thinking of seeing him in Bonn with a friend. I think he and I belong to different sides of the divide". That applies to Joni's fans as well. Diehard fans like us, that is. Everyone knows that. The list's history is filled with our Joni divide tales. And i'm not talking about which Joni voice we like the most since her voice changed or the mood she was in back in 1957 compared to our 1957 mood, i'm talking about her artistic choices and the way we reacted towards them. I'm talking purely about the music, not even about her lyrics. There are those who don't like her 80's style one bit and those who think it's brilliant. There are those who didn't like her going jazzy and those who liked her the most during that era. There are those who'd go nuts if they heard a Joni orchestra again and those who wish there were more BSNs and Travelogues. And it all comes from us loving her, you know, we are love critics, no matter which "side" we choose. I can't even count the times and interviews where Joni herself spoke about everyone's reaction to every new style she surprised us with, she spoke about that a lot, sometimes sounding a bit upset and surprised herself and sometimes laughing it all away. And she often had a commercial price to pay for the changes in terms of album sales. And the image price as well as people could no longer figure out what her style is so we got the Joni style which says both everything as well as nothing at all if you ask me. Why do 99.9% of us are united with Hejira and undivided with Court and Spark but when it comes to other styles in other albums we often disagree? The thing is that only great artists, in every form of art, dared to surprise everyone, including themselves, and were always looking for a new border to cross. As for me, as well as for many other folks here, as time went by we gave up on this classic divide issue and so now we can listen to and enjoy everything in Joni's catalogue, including albums we didn't like much for many years. It's a sweet surrender thing. Nuri Something about being on a mailing list like this one made me think of "the kindness of strangers". Its a funny coincidence Ron that you send me a link to a song called "stranger than kindness". Bene (I'm usually not big on literary references but this one is from A Streetcar named Desire by Tennessee Williams "I've always relied on the kindness of strangers") Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:01:56 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Joni, god and Kate's house (njc) That is how I always picture you two..."Ladies Of The Canyon".....real and earthy and all that good stuff. Bree l >Wow! I remember that day so vividly and yes, we were full of spirit in >every good way ;-). Vince was a gem to meet and I also remember Victor and >I discovering the little cave room and romping among the boulders in the >extended canyon of your "backyard," heehee! >Kakki _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:10:51 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: NJC Cave and God and other dark romanticists hi >>>>bene wrote >>>>> I copy this to Ron because it opens with a quotation from Nick Cave >>>>> which is a good comment on how Into My Arms made it into our >>>>> discussion about Joni an God (and because I'm keen on hearing if you >>>>> liked the song!) > > "The Love Song must be born into the realm of the irrational, the absurd, > the distracted, the melancholic, the obsessive, the insane, for the Love > Song is the noise of love itself and love is, of course, a form of > madness. Whether it be the love of God, or romantic, erotic love - these > are manifestations of our need to be torn away from the rational, to take > leave of our senses, so to speak. Love Songs come in many guises and are > seemingly written for many reasons - as declarations or to wound - I have > written songs for all of these reasons - but ultimately the Love Songs > exist to fill, with language, the silence between ourselves and God, to > decrease the distance between the temporal and the divine." well - im really enjoying the song. on first listening i was immdiately taken with the piano - gentle, quiet, melodic. the voice & lyrics have taken a while longer, but really have grown. taken together with the quote above, i think i must listen to more of his music & see what hes all about. i do enjoy the quote & the thoughts. i fully agree that the love song is the noise of love itself. then he says that they exist to decrease the distance between temporal & divine, which i pretty much agree with, but it seems to me in the opposite direction to what he is saying. i get the impression that he is saying that god is distant, or perhaps, external to us & we have to reach out to him (i just use "him" out of habit - i fully believe that god is neither male nor female). i believe that the love song to god is not to reach out to him, but to prepare a path through our being that will release the presence of god from within us - a way of getting our body, soul & spirit aligned so that the presence of god can flow through . the opposite can also be true - the love song can also be a virtually involuntary response to the presence of god, or also of any form of love. which leaves me amazed at the depth of music, how it can cut through all the bullshit & get to the heart of things. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:42:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Marcie Catherine wrote: "If you look at "I had a king" and then "Marcie", it could be the same woman - once telling the story in the first-person and then as a neutral third-party. For that matter, i think that Nathan LaFraneer drove her to the airport and that they may have driven past the shipyards in the rain on the way there, past the Dawntreader in her berth. And on it goes, with gangs and girly shows." There was this educational game we played in school here when i was a kid, in our writing lessons, and we (the non-football kids like me) often played it outside the classroom as well because it was fun, an exercise, where the teacher, and i had a lovely old Lady, a death-camp survivor named Sima as a teacher, would ask you to think of the first word (which was sort of "the problem") and the last word ("the solution") and then you had to fill the space in between the first and last word with a story where you had to put in words the process of how the problem got solved. So you had like "I lost my cat" at the beginning and "Found Gizmo!" in the end or "That new girl hates me" at the beginning and "My new best friend Rachel" in the end and so on, and the stories in between describing what happened. It wasn't just about the start/finish words, it was more about the start/finish state of mind, and Sima always treated us kids as little people. One of the things you learn when you're given such an etude is that you may not control the beginning but the end is very much up to you, as if you're the prophet of your own tale. For many years, whenever i was listening to STAS, this childhood game was somewhere at the back of my head. "I Had A King" always sounded to me like the problem, the source of pain, and "Cactus Tree" - the solution and release. It's like a lifetime plan of some kind, like a promise to yourself - This is the sad place where i started and this is how I, and not fate or God or men or anyone else but me, have decided that it would end. Nuri - --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:53:25 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni and God hi >>>sherelle wrote >>>> "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head >>>> a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering >>>> what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was >>>> going with the title as well as the actual song. i think the key to the song is " Which would it be Mingus one or two or three Which one do you think he'd want the world to see Well world opinion's not a lot of help When a man's only trying to find out How to feel about himself" its about a person who is unsure in himself as to who he really, & who he thinks the world would want to see. does he show the middle character - strong, (perhaps), unemotional, rational - waiting to provide the guidance to the two other personas - the one who is so scared that he lashes out & attacks before they get too close, and another who is vulnerable, sweet & gentle - who lets people in too close. in this state of confusion, he is looking outside of himself for guidance. he already knows that world opinions no help - too confusing, (who is going to give that kind of guidance with enough insight or authority?) so, he turns to god, but, i think perhaps, in an unhealthy way. god must have a plan, god must have an answer. but god doesnt work that way - god is really all about individuality and freedom of choice, (i know that many people will disagree, or perhaps never have experienced that viewpoint). so in his disillusionment & disappointmnet the "plan" goes from divine, to insulting, to cock eyed ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The LOL Joni Songs Now let's see if you guys can name all the songs where you can hear Joni laughing out loud as part of the recording itself. I'm warning you - there are more Joni laughter songs than you may think:) Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:25:42 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Joni and God Actually Ron, that makes perfect sense to me!! Thank you! I've never been able to understand the song as Joni meant it but reading your words, It really feels like this is what she meant the song to say. Sherelle Ron wrote: > >hi > > > >>>sherelle wrote >>>>>"God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head >>>>>a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering >>>>>what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was >>>>>going with the title as well as the actual song. > > >i think the key to the song is > >" Which would it be >Mingus one or two or three >Which one do you think he'd want the world to see >Well world opinion's not a lot of help >When a man's only trying to find out >How to feel about himself" > > >its about a person who is unsure in himself as to who he really, & who he >thinks the world would want to see. does he show the middle character - >strong, (perhaps), unemotional, rational - waiting to provide the guidance >to the two other personas - the one who is so scared that he lashes out & >attacks before they get too close, and another who is vulnerable, sweet & >gentle - who lets people in too close. > >in this state of confusion, he is looking outside of himself for guidance. >he already knows that world opinions no help - too confusing, (who is going >to give that kind of guidance with enough insight or authority?) so, he >turns to god, but, i think perhaps, in an unhealthy way. god must have a >plan, god must have an answer. but god doesnt work that way - god is really >all about individuality and freedom of choice, (i know that many people >will disagree, or perhaps never have experienced that viewpoint). so in his >disillusionment & disappointmnet the "plan" goes from divine, to insulting, >to cock eyed > > >ron > > > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:46:58 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: njc, Barack Obama & Lieberman Hi Patti...and all... Thanks for responding..."I think I understand.." now. I didn't mean these questions as a challenge...like I wrote..just curious. Marianne thought maybe SOME people would take it as a challenge. She didn't... nor was she saying you did..just an observation on her part. I read her this post via the phone lines. While reading it I would interject my views ..thoughts on pharmaceuticals..Cheney...THE WAR. ..God in politics ..seeing it a different way than you on MOST things but not all. So again..thanks for taking the time... May the best man win!! ;-0 Bree MORE: May the best man wins..harkens me back to election night..2004. What a night that was ! Marianne and I all evening had been watching the election returns...and yes.. for a time..it looked as though the president was going to lose. See all day I had been listening to talk radio and the people I were listening to..sounded a little down when signing off. A tad dispirited. About ten.. eastern time .. Marianne.. with the tiniest glee in her eye .. said she was going to bed. While she was getting ready for bed ..I was talking to various people in ohio. My brother.. who said that around eight..he saw such long lines of people...he couldn't believe it.(the polls closed officially at eight) but because of the long lines of people waiting to vote outside a firehouse where he lives ...they extended the time to vote until ten. This was happening all around southern Ohio. These people were NOT discouraged by the exit poles. MOST were determined to cast their vote for Bush. Again...I had a little hope. Marianne went to bed THINKING Kerry had won. (I must say..Marianne is a first class act..very little gloating on her part..if any. I don't think had it been the reverse... I could have contained myself) Another person who I spoke to throughout the evening to..via the phone lines.. a life long friend..who lives outside of Dayton, Ohio. (she's a conservative who happens to be a lesbian.) (How does that happen? Let's see ...there is Tammy Bruce..me and her. ;-) ) She assured me that Bush was going to win. Not to worry. I would say stuff like.."oh ..you are just trying to make me feel better." Aren't you? "No....she would say..."you know me better than that." "I always give you the straight on things." And indeed she does. She went on to say that I could take it to the bank.. that Bush was going to win. I told her that Marianne had gone to bed thinking Kerry was a shoe-in. She laughed..and said something like..."she's in for a rude awakening".."maybe she can call a sick day into her school?" Her reasoning as tp why Bush was going to win: Yes..good old yard signs. She told me in mid-state Ohio she saw very few Kerry signs..but thousands of Bush signs. I still was very skeptical...believe me. But she believed it..so I hung on to that hope. She told me about the grass roots campaign in Ohio too...it was like nothing she had ever seen....the base was motivated. The yard signs..silly to some...were a tangible proof to her reasoning. Anyway...as they say..the rest is history. Oh..I was still up...UP.. chopping on popcorn .when Marianne's alarm went off. Yes...it was a sad thing I had to tell her..but someone had to do it...such a terrible task. Not a job for NPR! (she listens to NPR on her drive to school most mornings) My words to her..I can't exactly remember.."Hon...I was very worried..but HE pulled it out." Her reaction...words can't describe....."you are kidding?"...I went over and flicked on the TV...she glanced just for what seemed like a second or two.... into the shower she went. And onto bed I went.. Bree >Bree, notre fromage favori, asked: >> >>Just curious..Patti..was there a time that you liked Lieberman? As far >>as Lamont goes..didn't he pump some eight million of his OWN money in >>there? Connecticut is ranked..28th in population and 48th in size...I >>would think with those figures and all that money going to spread his >>message..his name ...people in your state should know him by now. (I >>realize that article was written in August) IS it that you dislike >>Lieberman so much..you have to settle for Lamont. Or are you really >>taken with Lamont? > >Sigh. All this political stuff is wearing me down, truly. I don't know >how bad it is in your state, but here in CT it is just relentless, and >awful. In all my 52 years, have never seen such horribly negative ads >everywhere you turn. > >I already told you that the article was written on March 31, right? So >that means we really had a magnificent grassroots victory on August 8th, >turning that 68 percent vs. 13 percent (is that what it was? fuzzy math -- >sorry!) into a stunning victory for Lamont, our anti-war candidate. > >NO WAR! NO WAR! NO WAR! > >I have already had this debate with an old friend (and you know, there may >be more), so if you will please forgive my weak and a lazy mind right now, >I will just cut and paste something I wrote Sunday. "Again and again the >same situation..." > >Okay, this is long....sorry! As our other Joan once sang: Take what you >need, and leave the rest. > >-- There was a time that the money thing would dis-illusion >you...................... > >I have grappled with that. I believe we need real campaign finance reform, >but unfortunately that is not happening yet. Should only rich men be able >to get elected, because they have their own money? No, of course not. > >With all that said, I have to actually admire him for putting his own money >where his mouth is. And one of the best things is that he takes NO money >from lobbyists or political arms of big corporations. Lieberman is taking >millions from Bush people, corporations, PACS, etc. There is a long list of >his contributors in today's Hartford Courant. A lot of pharmaceutical >companies, too....hmmmmm.... > >-- what is his true motive ?.............. > >David once told me: "I don't like to attribute motives to people." I think >that is very good advice. You never know what one's true motives are until >they are put to the test. Does he just want power? Maybe. He's certainly >not in it for the money, because he is losing money. Does he want to end >the war, change the disgusting climate in Washington, help get better >health >care, help public education (Lieberman supports vouchers, Lamont does not)? >I believe that he does. Maybe I'll be disappointed later, but I do know >that Lieberman has disappointed and disgusted me enough times (he actually >introduced the Iraq War Resolution to the Senate) to say it's time for him >to go. > >This may be oversimplification but I boil it all down to this: > >Lieberman has been for Bush's/Cheney's/Rumsfeld's/Rove's war since day one. >Period. > >Lamont is against the war. > >As my grandmother used to say: "Where there's a will, there's a way." > >Lamont appears to have the will. > >Lieberman does not have the will. His actions have proven that. > > >-- You would also be one I think to react to his total negativity and >attacks >on his opponent...............sigh........ > >I sigh with you. They are ALL disgusting, and are only going to get worse >in the next two weeks. But you know what? These warmongers NEED to be >attacked! Simmons in my district has REALLY awful ones...one with Guiliani >("America's Mayor") and all this 9/11 crap, and another w/ Mohammed Atta >and >the pres of Iran and the like (axis of evil people) saying that Courtney >doesn't care about the security of Americans. Hogwash! Nancy Johnson is >just as bad. From my perspective, Lamont's negative ads critique >Lieberman's *record*, and rightly so....he missed 309 votes in the last 4 >years....he supports the war....he has never in his 18 years supported >universal health care....he was the only New England democrat to vote for >the Bush-Cheney energy bill which contains BILLIONS in subsidies for oil >and >gas companies (like they need it!!!) and does little for conservation and >clean energy. Not to mention that ole Joe voted for the torture bill. Have >you read Garrison Keilor's piece on that? > >The Republican ads are using fear to get their votes. That is despicable to >me. Cheney said Lamont supporters are (I forget his exact words) "the kind >of people who support terrorists." Go f@#k yourself, Cheney! And all your >friends, too. (Cheney and Rove support Lieberman.) > >Most politicians are jerks...but they are all we have to work with if we >really do want peace and justice and freedom, so what can you do? (One guy >who really gives me hope, though, is Barack Obama. Have you heard and seen >him? Wow. I just hope someone doesn't shoot him like they did so many >other good ones. Sigh.) > >Lamont, if he wins, could turn out to be a jerk. Who knows? But to me, he >appears to have the vision and the will to lead us to the *change* we >desperately need. I am willing to take the risk. With Lieberman, who says >he has the "courage of his convictions", I would say that "his" is the >operative word. Does he represent his constituents? Or himself? How do >we know what *his* convictions are going to be on any issue? He's taking so >much Republican money...but calls himself a "devoted Democrat" (but ignores >the will of the Dem voters). Remember too how he refused to give up wanting >to keep his Senate seat during the last election....had he and Kerry won, >asshole Rowland would have been able to put one of his corrupt cronies into >the Senate. Would that have been best for CT? No, but it would have been >best for Joe Lieberman. And this one really got me: when asked who could >possibly dissuade him from running, he answered: "No earthly messenger." >Holy shit. Sounds like God is telling HIM what to do, just like he tells >George W. Bush. Pretty scary stuff, in my opinion. We've got enough whacko >religious nuts out there running countries in the name of God and Allah and >whatever. > >Bottom line: I am choosing hope over fear. That's how I see it. > >I'm Patti Parlette and I approve this message!" > >Okay, so that's my two cents ce soir. Kakki, I need to leave your >questions for tomorrow, okay? I'm exhausted! > >Sorry for all the bandwith. > >Love and peace to all, > >Patti P. > >P.S. Hey, Smurf...bow wow! > >NPIMH: Neil Young's "I'm living with war every day, I'm living with war in >my heart, everyday...." > > _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:58:49 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni, god and Kate's house (njc) It was a special time, as was the time before - you were the first person I met in person from the jmdl! I thought it was cool that you drove all that way to our house for a concert... & I'm glad you & victor had a frolic in the cave & amidst the boulders... yes we are in a much more tame environment now but just as beautiful in a valley kind of way... especially now that it is harvest time... we actually have trees changing color here! And cornfields! And cows! LOL... >Wow! I remember that day so vividly and yes, we were full of spirit in every good way ;-). Vince was a gem to meet and I also remember Victor and I discovering the little cave room and romping among the boulders in the extended canyon of your "backyard," heehee! (Hey Victor, we miss you out here, come back again!) It's sweet to hear you thought it was special. I always felt really happy both times at your wonderful house and raved to everyone I knew about you and Jeff and the place each time I visited. I was kind of sad to hear that you had moved away, although I'm sure your new place is very special, too. Thank you always for your hospitality to me. Kakki< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:36:13 -0700 From: Subject: Joni art in L.A. and "currency" Check it out. Nov. 9th. Currency is $125 a head ;-) http://www.losangelesballet.org/html/events.htm Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:36:29 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Is Joni REALLY doing a new album??? On 25 Oct 2006, at 21:31, Michael Flaherty wrote: > Btw, I noticed no one is on bass. I've got about a months worth of holiday coming up... I could probably fit something into my schedule. [Well, it's nice to dream, isn't it?] But by god, that's something I'd **love** to do. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:16:00 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, TV music alerts Dear Joniamigos: I interrupt whatever everyone is talking about today (I'm on digest so I never know) to give you some TV music alerts: 9 p.m. EST: Dixie Chicks on "VH1 Storytellers" 10 p.m. EST: "Paul McCartney: The Space Within Us" on A&E Paul was my favorite in 4th grade until, of course, I grew to love them ALL. Love, Patti P. NPOMTV: Dixie Chicks _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:24:17 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: njc, debt Rove's talking like the republicans are going to keep steady control next week .. why is he sounding so optimistic? What is up with that? they are supposed to be "conservatives." what is up with the national debt? this is conservative? This is a BIG concern. What are we leaving to our children? We absolutely must reduce the debt. please do not not run our government like this do not run families like this. ~ _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:09:55 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: If Joni were a baseball fan... If Joni were a baseball fan, she would be celebrating the Cardinals as the new World Series Champions... because they were certainly, "taming the Tigers" this past week. Victor NP: Beck - The Information ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:19:27 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama & Lieberman Dear Kakki: I am finally sitting down to reply to your email (that's a promise that I made). I find your questions a little daunting, because I never took a political science course in college, or (gasp!) even a history course. All I know is my own experiences. You asked: >Hey Jerry and Patti, > >What do you think of the situation where Lieberman loses the Democratic >primary but yet most of the Dems in the state are going to vote for him as >an Independent? Does he represent one wing of the party and not the other? >Is he betraying the party if most of the party members are going to vote >for him? I sense the Dems may be morphing or splitting off into two >parties. If you look at history in the U.S. most all political parties >have had a finite shelf life and have morphed or evolved into a new party >down the road. It could happen to Republicans, too. I see Republicans >basically split into about four different factions at this point and some >of those factions fiercely oppose the others. All of the factions disagree >strongly on many points but there are still a few key issues that they >unite on that sort of keeps them together although many hold their noses to >vote for a lot of the candidates. I voted today (we have early voting >here) and definitely had to hold my nose on a number of candidates and >propositions. Lots of compromise in basically a two party system. I ad to >vote for the conservation bond. Even though it's going to cost the state, I >have worked on these kind of initiatives for years and cannot be a >hypocrite on that issue. On the other hand, I laughed out loud when I saw a >proposition to raise the cost (up the taxes) of a pack of cigs $2.60. Good >grief! I'm tempted to look into moving to Panama when I see stuff life >that. Well, my first thought is: good that we all vote! And here in CT, it's a jungle. There was a debate of Senate hopefuls last week that was very interesting. There was Lieberman and Lamont, the two front-runners, but then the Republican (a 3% blip on the polls), Alan Schlesinger, came out and really livened the whole thing up. And then there were two guys on the fringes, a Green Party guy (Ferrucci, who I liked) and another guy (who's name I forget) from an extreme right wing viewpoint. As I said, it was interesting. But here's what cracked me up (maybe you had to be there), but in the paper the next day, some columnist referred to it as the "Lamont v. Lieberman v. Schlesinger v. Crosby-Stills v. Sacco-Vanzetti debate". I was rolling on the floor with that one! Oh, you just have to laugh (when you're not crying) because it's all so crazy. I've complained about all the TV ads and postcards in our mailboxes and voicemails and stuff here, wondering how it is in your states. We're all going crazy! My friend and neighbor Anne called today, suffering from cabin fever (very moody sky today, lots of rain and wind), laughing at what she and her two sons (ages 6 and 12) did today. They took all those political ads from their mailbox that have been accumulating on their kitchen table and cut out all the faces/bodies and made finger puppets! (Marianne, teacher girl, you have to love this!). They had little debates and arguments, and when their Dad got home, Matt went up to him with his Lamont finger puppet and said: "Patti endorsed me. Why didn't you?" NPOMTV: Dixie Chicks singing "I'm not ready to make nice, I'm not ready to back down..." I always want to make nice, but I can't back down, either. Rumsfeld yesterday told anti-war people to "Back off!" No way! Okay, now Paul is on my TV, so I need to sign off. Oh, merde, one more thing: Kakki also wrote: > >And guess what? Obama made a visit to my firm's San Fran office yesterday! >He is a friend with one of our attorneys. He signed books and stuff and >then it was said Neil Young was supposed to show up, too. I thought that >was just joking but later learned it was really true and Neil couldn't make >it at the last minute. What a trip! Work does have its interesting >moments sometimes ;-) > Cool! And Neil? He inspires me every day as I listen more and more to his Living With War CD. In case you missed it, go to his website to see his recording sessions. What a man, what a man, what a very good man. Thank God for Neil, and bring it on, Joni! I await SIQUOMB. Love and peace, Patti P., off to hear Paul McCartney, my first true love _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #405 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------