From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #396 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 24 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 396 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc ["ron" ] Subject: Re: STAS ["P. Henry" ] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Bree Mcdonough" ] The Monastery (NJC) [Gary Z ] Subject: London listers - shameless Stryngs gig plug (NJC) [Benedicte Nie] Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc [Victor Johnson ] Re: njc, Barack Obama [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: hi folks, wondering about the list NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni and God and us [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Laura NPIMH: LOVE (Corinthians 11:13) [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: joni & god [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] NJC Re: joni & god [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] njc, Get out the vote! (Please?) ["Patti Parlette" ] NJC They want to make Van Goghs... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni and religion (sjc? not sure, sorry!) [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: joni & god [] Re: joni & god [] Re: joni & god ["ron" ] Re: joni & god [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: NJC Re: joni & god ["ron" ] Re: Joni and religion (sjc? not sure, sorry!) ["ron" Subject: Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc hi >>>deb wrote >>>>> My boss heartily recommends this artist Regina Spektor. Any opinions >>>>> about her? the usually reliable ectophiles guide to good music rates her very highly http://ectoguide.org/alpha/s/spektor.regina&p=2 there was some talk about her on this list recently. the general opinion being that she was not all she's cracked up to be. i was quite taken initially, but have come over more to this lists view. seems to me she may just turn out to be the jewel of the alt folk world. jewel as in the "folk" singer called jewel - i.e. no major talent or depth but somehow quite appealing to the masses. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:36:08 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Subject: Re: STAS This is one where she states it quite clearly: http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1455 and you can probably find more here in late '67-'68 with a search for 'seagull. http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/ J Kendel Johnson wrote: "Wow! Interesting. Sheds a whole new light for me." "P. Henry" wrote: Joni consistantly referred to the album title as "Song To A Seagull" in interviews prior to it's release. Pat - --- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:37:35 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Jerry...she said that on The O'Reilly Factor....she likes Newt on a personal level. She didn't say she would vote for him...just that she gets along with him well. She admires his intellect. Bree >. BTW, I've searched all day with no success for >the source of your quote from Whoppi Goldberg that "Newt is my man." I >seriously doubt she ever said it, considering Gingrich called for a boycott >on her when she criticized Bush at a Radio City Hall function. > >Jerry > > > > Hi Sherelle...and all... > > > > I sure hope for his sake he wound't put HRC on the same ticket. Why >would > > he want to commit political suicide? I mean... this bright >shining > > star..which he is at this time..why jeopardize that? She may need > > him..but he sure as heck doesn't need her. She is a > > shrill...cunning..power-grabbing...cold-blooded person...that is her >nature. > > To her power is everything and whatever it takes ..whoever she has >to > > destroy...it's all part of the game to gain that power. He's above > > that...not his character! Sherelle..I encourage you to read a book >called: > > Hell To Pay..by the late Barbara Olson. It's a real >eye-opener...and > > all documented. (copious sources & footnotes) Most people are >probably > > saying..well.. aren't all politicians are like that? Nooooooo...not >like > > her...nothing to that degree of chutzpah...the operational mentality of >a > > Mac truck. > > > > > > Forgetting that he is a U. S. senator..just as a human being...he's >seems > > decent...reasonable...and kind....things she is not. > > > > No...I believe he's in the driver's seat. > > > > > > Bree > > > > PS. Remember ..she wants that big dog position... she has already been > > there in that number two spot...she's been there done that. > > > > > >> Hi Patti my friend, > >> > >> He said that after this mid-term election was over, he would have to >sit > >> down and see where he would be "most useful". He told a story about > >> Benjamin Franklin using this term to explain to his mother why he chose >to > >> go into politics when he was talented in other areas. It sounds like in >the > >> light of this swell of public interest, he has sped up the process. > >> > >> I know that Hillary Clinton has aspirations of running as well. I >believe > >> that the two of them may decide to run as a team. If something like >that > >> would happen, I am just curious about who would be in the driver's seat >as > >> candidate for president and who would be candidate for vice-president. >It > >> just feels like a real possibility. I'm not an expert in these areas so >I > >> will just wait and see. It's just a hunch from me. > >> > >> Sherelle > >> > >> Patti wrote: > >>> > >>> Bon dimanche soir! > >>> > >>> I'm running behind the times again and now trying to catch up. > >>> > >>> Sherelle wrote: > >>> > >>>> Did you see him talk about where that title came from? His pastor. I > >>>> really like it too! I agree with everything you are saying. When he >was > >>>> on Charlie Rose, he had to break off his conversation about his mom > >>>> because he was getting too emotional about it. I feel that! I lost my > >>>> mother at the same age he lost his but just years before he did. I >too > >>>> felt that my mother had so much more life in her. Anyone who has lost >a > >>>> parent at a young age can relate. I applaud him because he's taken >his > >>>> grief and turned it into a celebration of everything his mother means >to > >>>> him. Very touching! > >>>> > >>> > >>> Yes it is. > >>> > >>> This may have already been reported, but since I'm on digest I don't >know. > >>> I just heard that he is now thinking of running in 2008. He told Tim > >>> Russert in February that he will not run. But this morning Russert >asked > >>> him if it was fair to say that he was considering running, and Barack >said > >>> something like "that would be fair." > >>> > >>> What wonderful news! > >>> > >>> "Compasson is not religious business, it is human business, it not >luxury, > >>> it is essential for our own peace and mental stablitity, it is >essential > >>> fof human survival." -- Dalai Lama > >>> > >>> The beginning of survival! > >>> > >>> With audacious hope, > >>> > >>> Patti P. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash >with > >> Live Search! > >> >http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en > >> -US&source=hmtagline > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Use your PC to make calls at very low rates > > https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:53:18 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Truly..Sherelle...If everyone had your heart...your decency....manners.... smooth and gentle soul.... .there would never again be another war. No BS...I mean that. Love... Bree >Hi Laura, > >I have to start treading lightly again because not everyone thinks that is >such a good choice. If Hillary indeed has a problem with power, I have >concerns. These are things I have to step back and look at. Right now, I >don't know too terribly much about her as a senator. I think it's time to >go back and look at each potential candidate more completely both democrat >and republican and educate myself about them a little better. At this >point, I'm going to take my "pundit" as Patti-Patti put it, and go back to >political lurkdom! (Smile) > >Love, >Sherelle > > >> >> >>Sherelle wrote: >> >>I know that Hillary Clinton has aspirations of running as well. I believe >>that the two of them may decide to run as a team. >> >> >>Hi Sherelle, >> >> Wow! That would be quite a team! I hope you are right. >> >>Love, >>Laura > >_________________________________________________________________ >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:32:13 -0400 From: Gary Z Subject: The Monastery (NJC) I've never been a fan of reality shows but I discovered one that I found quite interesting. Did anyone catch this one? It's called "The Monastery" and is broadcast on Sunday evenings on The Learning Channel. The first episode just aired last Sunday. It's about five men from different backgrounds who are invited to spend 40 days and 40 nights with 30 Benedictine Monks at the Monastery of Christ in the Desert in New Mexico. Here is a link for anyone interested: http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/monastery/monastery.html?clik=tlc_leftnav Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 2006 11:45:47 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Subject: London listers - shameless Stryngs gig plug (NJC) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:44:16 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: London listers - shameless Stryngs gig plug (NJC) Please excuse the shameless plug :) We're playing *tonight* (23rd) in London at the Vibe Bar on Brick Lane. The evening starts at 8pm, and we're up at 9.30 for about 45 mins. If any of our London friends can make it, it'd be great to see some of you and catch up. Full address: The Vibe Bar, The Old Truman Brewery, 91-95 Brick Lane, London, E1 6QL. Oh yeah... it's free too :) - - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ - -------------------------- Hi Chris - I was there! I enjoyed it a lot. I've noticed that we use the word 'intense' a lot on this list for music of the right kind, and I though it was very intense. I have to say I like bands with violins. I wold have liked to hear it someplace with better sound though. You can tell that there is a lot in the lyrics, and it was a bit frustrating that you couldn't always hear what she sang. I liked the venue, but I guess the room is just not ideal for music. But on the whole, I enjoyed it a lot. I don't know how long I'll still be around (in the UK), but I hope to be able to hear you again. I should have come up and said hello, but I had to rush off. Plus I'm always embarrassed to talk to people about their music anyway...! I don't think you saw me, but I was sitting at the front corner of the bar, close to where the 'bear' guys / organisers were hanging out some of the time. So, thanks for a nice evening! Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:09:05 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc Deb writes: > My boss heartily recommends this artist Regina Spektor. Any opinions about > > her? > > Haven't heard that much about her, but she sang "Little Boxes", the theme song to "Weeds" last week and did a great job. I love how this season, how they have a different artist sing "Little Boxes" each week. .....Elvis Costello, The McGarrigle Sisters, Englebert Humperdink, The Submarines...and others. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:47:15 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc As Paz mentioned recently, we met her on the Amtrak train, headed back from DC. She seemed a little miffed that we had never heard of her. And when she had left her scarf in the dining car, I went to find her to return it and they acted like I should have known that they were coming back ( even though all appearances indicated they had left for good) and they pretty much ignored us though we invited her to jam with us. Needless to say, we weren't particularly impressed. I heard a couple of tracks the next weekend from a friend's cd...it didn't really send me. Ticketmaster actually had a promotional photo of her recently on one of their emails that looked terrible. Or maybe that's what she wanted...you never know these days. Victor NP: WSB 750 On Oct 23, 2006, at 9:30 PM, Deb Messling wrote: > My boss heartily recommends this artist Regina Spektor. Any > opinions about her? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > dlmessling@rcn.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:04:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: hi folks, wondering about the list NJC didn;t get any posts at all yesterday from the list, including one I sent - was just wondering if the list is working, so this is a sort of test. Please excuse the "waste". thx Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:17:07 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Sherelle wrote: I'm going to take my "pundit" as Patti-Patti put it, and go back to >political lurkdom! (Smile) Hi Sherelle, I think "wam-pum" beads would look good with your pundit... a little filigree in the back ground. Enjoy the lurkdom canyon. (o; Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:35:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: hi folks, wondering about the list NJC Me too; weird. I got everything at this addy but nothing on my Yahoo box. Maybe it's a Yahoo thang. Bob NP: Neil Young & 100 Voices, "America The Beautiful" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 2006 13:38:38 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Joni and God and us Hi, there are many things in the Joni and God string I'd like to comment on, it's really interesting. But, well, I have work to do, so just for now: funny how Ron's email was thought-provoking - in the sense that he is the only one of us who has said: I don't think Joni sees God the way I do... To stay in Catherine Tate-jargon: How DARE you think you are more enlightened...?! No that was a joke, but its weird how much people (present comany included)seem to identify with her... Anyway, work... Best Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:23:23 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Laura NPIMH: LOVE (Corinthians 11:13) In a message dated 10/23/06 3:18:05 AM, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: > As a child I spoke as a child > I thought and I understood as a child > But when I became a woman > I put away childish things > And began to see through a glass darkly > > Interesting, I think, that when I saw this quote from Laura (and the bible) I immediately thought of Todd Rundgren singing "Real Man" (When I was a child/I thought as a child/II spoke as a child......" and then, James McMurtry on his most recent album, Childish Things, "I put away childish things....." Sorry for the lack of Joni content but it's a quick thing. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:52:50 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: joni & god Every time I've read or heard that story she's stated that she prayed to the Christmas Tree in her room and not to God. She probably realized at an early age that if there was a God with any powers he would never inflict such pain & suffering upon an innocent child. (I guess if you're Shinto then praying to a tree would equate with praying to God.) I tried to search the library for an article but the search engine wasn't working. Reminds me of Lance Armstrong's reply when someone asked him about whether he was thanking God for curing him of his testicular cancer - he said he didn't give God any thanks because then he'd also have to blame him for giving him the cancer in the first place. Bob Joni, "Refuge Of The Roads" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:01:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: joni & god Really?? More difficult and mysterious than Revelation? I've always found the Book of Job to be pretty straightforward - almost all Biblical Scholars (according to what I've read) agree that Job is an important book but is basically an allegorical fable and is not intended to be taken literally. The land of Uz, God and Satan (meaning adversary), the destruction and loss and reinstatement is a way to explain that bad things happen to good people but through faith hope endures. I'm sure that you know that the book is a combination of different parts by several different authors; starts as prose, segues into Homerian-like epic poetry, and then gets some more prose narrative thrown in as an afterthought, likely just to tidy up the loose ends (Job gets everything he lost returned, including brand new kids!) Throughout history we've used Gods to explain what we couldn't understand...Gods held up the world, made the sun rise in the sky, sent lightning from the clouds, etc. As we got smarter and our base of knowledge expanded we realized the science and realities involved with those activities so those Gods went away - banished as mythology. However, bad things still (and always will) happen to good people, so lots of folks still need God to explain away that one. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Putnam County" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:21:58 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Get out the vote! (Please?) Dear American Joniamigos: Two weeks from today, November 7th, is election day. (And, of course, Joni's birthday.) If you need to register to vote, or to get an absentee ballot for yourself or a friend or kin or a camper in your kitchen, this link will help you. It has information for every state. http://www.govote.org/campaigns/govote/sos_en.html# Please share this information with your friends, family, students away at college, neighbors, ....everybody! We need to have a voice for our future, and our children's and their children's. We need intelligent leaders in Washington to solve the many problems we face. I think we can all agree on that, non? With hope for the future, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with Live Search! http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:52:56 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: hi folks, wondering about the list NJC Reading you loud & clear Em, might be a problem on your system. Let me know if this comes in. db >>> Em 10/24/2006 7:04 AM >>> didn;t get any posts at all yesterday from the list, including one I sent - was just wondering if the list is working, so this is a sort of test. Please excuse the "waste". thx Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Opinions re Regina Spektor njc - --- Victor Johnson wrote: > She seemed a little miffed that we > had never heard of > her. Ha. Had she ever heard of YOU? Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:39:35 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Joni & The Holy Tree "I don't know who I prayed to. I addressed it to the Christmas tree. I said 'I am not a cripple, not a cripple, not a cripple. I'm going home for Christmas. If I can pull this off, I'll make it up to you.'" - -Joni Mitchell She made a vow to the little Christmas tree that decorated her hospital room that if she got better, she'd do something special in life. She got better; the rest is history. At least that's the way I remember it. - -Anne Bayin, Joni's childhood friend Bob NP: Joni, "Woman of Heart & Mind" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:36:18 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: NJC - Feeling... a little overwhelmed with all that has to be accomplished in a short space of time in my world... as though having a raffle with my house as first prize is the only way it will move in Michigan right now... melancholy and missing my companion who is now living in Everett Washington... like listening to "Blue" all day long over and over... as though John Hiatt would be a good listening choice too... In fact I'm going to put it on now Cassy NP: Feels Like Rain - John Hiatt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:18:54 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC They want to make Van Goghs... Maybe they can't - but they can certainly make lots of Jackson Pollocks: http://www.jacksonpollock.org/ (click in the field and click again to change colors) Bob NP: Tom Waits, "I'll Take New York" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 2006 20:28:27 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Joni and religion (sjc? not sure, sorry!) On Oct 23 2006, ron wrote: >hi > > >>>>benedicte wrote: >> ---------------------- I looked it up, charity translates Latin caritas >> which renders Greek agape which designates Christian love. An on-line >> etymological dictionary suggests caritas is deployed to avoid the sexual >> connotation of amor. So, depending on where you draw the line....! Seems >> to me that Jesus drew it differently from many Christians nowadays. > > one of the problems of the king james bible is that its not direct from > the greek, but is via the latin. > >in the original greek there are three types of love mentioned in: > > eros - love which includes sexual love > > phileo - love on a friendship level > > agape - love on a spiritual level. > >it is the last one which is used in corinthians. the amplified bible >translates it as > > "that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired > by god's love for and in us" > >agape is also usually translated as charity in the king james bible. > > > >ron > - --------------------------- Hey, thanks for some interesting emails today! I know I should have known better than to say that you can draw your own lines between Christian love and erotic love, and that Jesus drew that line differently from where many Christians draw it. However... Surely, there is a fundament of agape in all kinds of love? What I mean is: I guess eros is also desire, so it cannot be agape because agape is unselfish. But there is agape in eros because you give yourself away. If there is ever a time when you feel forgiving and loving and unselfish and kind it's when you are in love. I find it strange that so many Christians are so strict about premarital sex - I can see why some people think it's a bad idea, but I also see something utterly un-christian about teaching people to withhold love and affection. Isn't that what Jesus was trying to say in some passage where he said about a prostitute that she will reach the kingdom of heaven before the rest of them, because she has loved a lot? Christianity may not be about eros, but I think falling in love is the closest many people get to experience agape, although not entirely undiluted. I love Nick Cave's 'into my arms' for that link between being in love and, well, feeling almost religious. I quote it below, but I guess one has to listen to it. I also think that is why so many people love Corinthians.. eerrrr.. 1.13? - and that they are not entirely wrong to think that it is about romantic love. God I hope I'm not boring anyone to death with this.... Agape...! Benedicte - ------------------------------------------ I don't believe in an interventionist God But I know, darling, that you do But if I did I would kneel down and ask Him Not to intervene when it came to you Not to touch a hair on your head To leave you as you are And if He felt He had to direct you Then direct you into my arms Into my arms, O Lord... etc. And I don't believe in the existence of angels But looking at you I wonder if that's true But if I did I would summon them together And ask them to watch over you To each burn a candle for you To make bright and clear your path And to walk, like Christ, in grace and love And guide you into my arms Into my arms, O Lord... etc. And I believe in Love And I know that you do too And I believe in some kind of path That we can walk down, me and you So keep your candles burning And make her journey bright and pure That she will keep returning Always and evermore Into my arms, O Lord... etc. - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:23:25 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Dear Bree, I really believe you. Thank you from tyhe bottom of my heart. I would love to see an end to war. Love, Sherelle Bree wrote: > >Truly..Sherelle...If everyone had your heart...your decency....manners.... >smooth and gentle soul.... >.there would never again be another war. No BS...I mean that. > >Love... > >Bree > > >>Hi Laura, >> >>I have to start treading lightly again because not everyone thinks that is >>such a good choice. If Hillary indeed has a problem with power, I have >>concerns. These are things I have to step back and look at. Right now, I >>don't know too terribly much about her as a senator. I think it's time to >>go back and look at each potential candidate more completely both democrat >>and republican and educate myself about them a little better. At this >>point, I'm going to take my "pundit" as Patti-Patti put it, and go back to >>political lurkdom! (Smile) >> >>Love, >>Sherelle >> >> >>> >>> >>>Sherelle wrote: >>> >>>I know that Hillary Clinton has aspirations of running as well. I >>>believe >>>that the two of them may decide to run as a team. >>> >>> >>>Hi Sherelle, >>> >>> Wow! That would be quite a team! I hope you are right. >>> >>>Love, >>>Laura >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > >_________________________________________________________________ >Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > _________________________________________________________________ Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:28:57 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Wam-pum beads! I love it! (smile) On the serious side, I need to go do some homework on the candidates. It's a good thing! Sherelle Laura wrote: > > >Hi Sherelle, > > I think "wam-pum" beads would look good with your pundit... a little >filigree in the back ground. Enjoy the lurkdom canyon. (o; > >Love, >Laura _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:38:20 -0700 From: Subject: Re: joni & god Maybe that was it. As usual, my writing was probably unclear. My point was not that she thought God had brought her affliction on her and she was asking God to take it away. I was responding to Ron's thought that Joni may not have felt moments God's love, power, etc. and that perhaps she may have felt that spiritual joy when she was able to walk again. Kakki Every time I've read or heard that story she's stated that she prayed to the Christmas Tree in her room and not to God. She probably realized at an early age that if there was a God with any powers he would never inflict such pain & suffering upon an innocent child. (I guess if you're Shinto then praying to a tree would equate with praying to God.) I tried to search the library for an article but the search engine wasn't working. Reminds me of Lance Armstrong's reply when someone asked him about whether he was thanking God for curing him of his testicular cancer - he said he didn't give God any thanks because then he'd also have to blame him for giving him the cancer in the first place. Bob Joni, "Refuge Of The Roads" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:46:53 -0700 From: Subject: Re: joni & god Here's one of Joni's version of the story from http://www.jonimitchell.com/bio/bio.cfm?id=230&from=url: "I started smoking at the age of nine. I had polio, and when I got out of the hospital, I kind of made a pact with my Christmas tree, or maybe it was God, that if I could get my legs back... At that time I'd broken away from the church because I loved stories, and they had a lot of loopholes, and, if you asked the teacher about those loopholes, like, O.K., Adam and Eve meet, they're the first man and woman, and they have two sons: Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel, then Cain got married. Who did he marry? It did not go over well. So I refused to go to church in the town for awhile. But I had this debt to pay back because I did stand up, unfurl, and walk. So I joined the church choir and one night after choir practice, in the middle of the winter, a girl had snitched a pack of Black Cat cork from her mother and we all sat in the wintery fish pond in the snow, and passed them around. And you know, some girls choked and some threw up, and I took one puff and felt really smart! I mean I just thought,"Woah!". My head cleared up. I seemed to see better and think better. So I was a smoker from that day on. Secretly, covertly, and I'm still smoking." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:45:28 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: joni & god hi >>>kakki wrote > Ron - your post is very thought-provoking. I can think of incidences in > Joni's life that seem to show that she has experienced the love, power and > presence of God in a powerful way. ...............................There > are other incidences along the way in her life that must have made her > feel that God was with her. Reuniting with her daughter, enjoying her > grandchildren, her sense of the huge creative gifts that she holds. My > sense is that Joni is just human like anyone else and not perfect but > always striving to be her best self. Sure she has an ego, but that tends > to come with the creative territory. thanks. i really believe that she has had far more of an experience with god than many religious people that i have know. many people have had similar experiences with god, a close moment with someone, looking into a childs eyes, a moment of comfortable intimacy with a partner, freshness after a storm, a cup of coffee with a good friend, any number of situations. joni has captured so, so many of those moments in song, from amelia, to hejira, for free, even in the sad songs like turbulent indigo & the magdalene laundries. especially in god must be a boogie man, which is a song which has had a huge impact on my life personally. i have no doubt at all that she has glimpsed & understands the nature of god. but i still dont get the sense or feeling that she has experienced the power & presence of god in that intense & personal way. ive been trying to put into words how it feels - but i cant. bet joni could tho :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:51:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: joni & god And more importantly for Joni....DANCE! Bob NP: Andrew Hill, "Sideways" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. 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I'm sure that you know that the book is a combination of different parts by several different authors; starts as prose, segues into Homerian-like epic poetry, and then gets some more prose narrative thrown in as an afterthought, likely just to tidy up the loose ends (Job gets everything he lost returned, including brand new kids!) Throughout history we've used Gods to explain what we couldn't understand...Gods held up the world, made the sun rise in the sky, sent lightning from the clouds, etc. As we got smarter and our base of knowledge expanded we realized the science and realities involved with those activities so those Gods went away - banished as mythology. However, bad things still (and always will) happen to good people, so lots of folks still need God to explain away that one. well - actually other than a brief fling with the book many years ago, ive never really bothered much with revelations (other than not letting anyone put a mark on my forearm or forehead). seems to me its a whole bunch of stuff which is going to happen anyway whether i understand it or not :-) job however goes into the nature & being of god & that is challenging & mysterious to me. ive never really read any biblical scholars - i am just too lazy, so i wasnt aware of the theory of the book being a combination of different authors. not too sure what to make of that. i have heard that it was one of the earliest books of the bible committed to paper, which may go some way to explaining its uniqueness. as far as its being an allegory - well the whole old testament is a physical allegory of the new. the law written in stone as opposed to the law written on your heart. the ten commandments in stone becoming ten statements of what our hearts, characters & natures will be. ten promises, rather than commandments. if (of course the problem with so many christians today is that they have hearts of stone which kind of screws up the whole new testament thing, & i think it kind of shows in the basic fact that people still call them commandments). but just because its an allegory doesnt mean it didnt happen. joni is the master (mistress??) of taking real life incidents & turning them into allegory. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:16:36 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni and religion (sjc? not sure, sorry!) hi >>>benedicte wrote >>>> Surely, there is a fundament of agape in all kinds of love? What I >>>> mean is: I guess eros is also desire, so it cannot be agape because >>>> agape is unselfish. But there is agape in eros because you give >>>> yourself away. If there is ever a time when you feel forgiving and >>>> loving and unselfish and kind it's when you are in love.<<<<< i would totally agree with that. being in love with a partner is a blend of all three - you desire the person, you enjoy their company, and you care about them & you want the best for them. having an imbalance would, i guess, lead to problems in a relationship? i really do think that people are intrinsically designed to be in love - kind of like a natural high when all our circuits are working. some folks would say that it is a longing for the presence of god which is innate in the human soul - but i think it is a longing for all kinds of love. when i was going to church regularly way, way back, i had a great relationship with god & would happily spend hours in prayer, or praise & worship - but i was intensely lonely for human companionship & just could not seem to connect with any other christians i knew. the contrast between an intimate, vital, open, relationship with god, & a cold, distant, awkward relationship with the people around me was just too much to bear. there were many, many wonderful people - just no one i connected with on all the right levels. >>>>I love Nick Cave's 'into my arms' for that link between being in love and, well, feeling almost religious. I quote it below, but I guess one has to listen to it. the lyrics look god - im trying to download the song so i can listen to it. i must admit i know virtually nothing at all about nick cave except that he had quite a good song on the radio a while back - cant remember anything about it other than that i quite liked it. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:03:29 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Joni word of the week Banyans ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:04:27 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: words of the week banyans filigree wampum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Isadora Subject: Re: Joni and God/dess and us Benedicte Nielsen wrote: >there are many things in the Joni and God string I'd like to comment >on, it's really interesting. But, well, I have work to do, so just for now: >funny how Ron's email was thought-provoking - in the sense that he is >the only one of us who has said: I don't think Joni sees God the way I >do... Hi again, all... FYI, when I wrote some thoughts about DITS yesterday, they were specifically in response to the comments about it in the Bob Muller post I cited, since I haven't had a chance to follow all the posts in this string. Having been a part of the neo Goddess religion scene since the late '60s, well before Joni wrote this song, I can state with confidence, from numerous details in the lyrics, that Joni was commenting on this scene, whatever else were her intentions and feelings in writing DITS. However, I don't presume to know or guess how Joni sees God/dess, or even IF she sees God/dess-- perhaps there are additional clues about the matter in one or some of her most recent albums, some of which I haven't heard for some time, and to which admittedly I haven't listened nearly as often as I've done to her first several albums, which are still my very favorites of hers. But then, I also don't presume there's a God and not a Goddess, or a Goddess and not a God... I can see quite clearly with my own eyes and mind that there's some sort of Universal Intelligence at work, but ultimately I feel that the Powers That Be are beyond gender as we know it. I have close friends from several religions, and have participated wholeheartedly in a number of sometimes highly syncretistic religious observances. While there is some masculine deity imagery I hold dear, such as Arthur and Robin and Cernunnos and Pan (and, for that matter, Peter Pan, the "Junior Green Man", to quote one of my own songs), I personally tend for a number of reasons mostly to favor Goddess symbolism. Yes, I am very passionate about Goddess imagery in my creative life, such as in my songwriting, but I don't presume to dictate to anyone else which deity name or imagery they should use, if any, or what beliefs they should hold, as long as their beliefs don't inflict harm on others. In criticizing those hotline-to-heaven types who've dictated religion to (i.e. engaged in shameless power-mongering mass thought and behavior control of) so many others for so many hundreds of years, absolutely the LAST thing I'd want to do is emulate them. I do, however, presume to share my beliefs and ideas frankly, and the results of my research into mythology, religious history, etc., forthrightly, for whatever those things are worth in a discussion, and especially for the sake of the Grand and Fine Old Art of Thought Provocation, which I have long held dear. >To stay in Catherine Tate-jargon: How DARE you think you are more >enlightened...?! Benedicite, since you sent me and a very few others a direct CC off-list of your post (I subscribe to the daily digest, which I haven't received a copy of for a couple of days, actually), I hope I'm correct in assuming you're addressing the above question to me, at least for one... and if so, perhaps I should reply "How DARE *you* think *I* think I'm more enlightened" ;-)... but hey, how about if I simply suggest you really shouldn't make assumptions (if that's what you're doing, as you seem to be) about my thoughts or anyone's from one post? I did write that one *can* see Mary as a face of the Great Goddess... that deity "doesn't have to mean* someone or something above and beyond or remote from creation, etc. I also mentioned that historically there was documentably a Mother Goddess before there was a Father God, for that is so, even if it hasn't suited certain religions to trumpet the fact, or if there are those who are still unaware of it (it's not exactly taught in every school, after all, Sunday or otherwise), or who choose to ignore it. Anyone who doubts that "even" the Jews once worshipped goddesses should read Dr Raphael Patai's scholarly tome *The Hebrew Goddess*, for but one example. My being passionately artistic and articulate in my Goddess religion will, I hope, not be seen as any more presumptous of a position of superior enlightenment than a Roman Catholic being passionate about Christianity or an Orthodox Jew being passionate about Judaism. One could take any of the three examples and project onto that person that he or she thinks to be more enlightened than others. Perhaps that is so, in one's individual heart of hearts, but passionately preferring a certain deity or religion is not inherently any different from thinking a loved one is the best or most wonderful person in the world when we're in love. One can prefer one's own beliefs, and love one's own true love, and still respect the right of others to believe and feel otherwise-- as long as no one is harmed by any of it. The problem is, a great many people have been harmed by zealous or overzealous representatives of various religions, such as at the Salem Witch Trials, or during the Spanish Inquisition. >No that was a joke, but its weird how much people (present comany >included)seem to identify with her... ... Not sure what you mean here-- identify with Catherine Tate? With Joni? If the latter, don't we all to some extent, or we wouldn't be on this list? Blessings, Isadora http://www.ladyisadora.com "Well-behaved women rarely make history." - --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich - --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #396 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------