From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #393 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 23 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 393 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni and religion ["patrick leader" ] RE: Real or fake? SCANS! ["P. Henry" ] STAS ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Sherelle Smith" ] RE: Real or fake? SCANS! ["P. Henry" ] Re: Joni and religion, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Gratitude [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Real or fake? [Victor Johnson ] Re: Real or fake? ["gene" ] RE: Real or fake? ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Real or fake? SCANS! [Doug ] Joni and God [] Real or Fake - scans [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joni and religion wow, richard, thanks for this. it really reads well with charity instead of love. in english, i'd define charity as a part of love, a tenderness and an emotional generosity (and the third verse seems to point out the difference between financial charity and genuine charity of spirit). it's really food for thought to see this writing with the focus on charity. also, regarding 'putting away childish things', it's worth mentioning that todd rundgren used the same concept for the first verse of a song (i adore) called 'real man': *** when i was a child, i thought as a child, i spoke as a child i didn't know better better ah, but now i'm a man, i look like a man, i'm old as a man and i should know better better... *** patrick np - me'shell ndgeocello, trust (from 'cookie: the anthropological mixtape') - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Richard Flynn Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 6:17 PM To: LCStanley7@aol.com; bn208@cam.ac.uk Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Joni and religion Yes, but "Love's a repetitious danger" Seriously, I always prefer the KJV for its poetry (I also prefer it to Joni's, though I approve of her reversal of sexist language.) I know that other translations substitute "love" for "charity." Not being a Biblical scholar I'm not sure which is the more accurate translation: 1 Corinthians 13 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:34:59 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! Thanks Richard! BTW, by seeing them both up close I am now even more convinced that they are both from Joni herself. Best, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - ------------------------------------------------- > Here are 600dpi scans of the front cover of STAS: > > http://download.yousendit.com/5B23F38272426C73 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of P. > Henry > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:46 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! > > To whom it may interest, here are the actual scans I asked the seller to > make. I wish I had scans of the album cover to compare. > > http://www.yousendit.com/download/qBVdioZTz4M%3D > > Cheers, > > Pat > > -- > "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." > http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:30:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: STAS I've never seen a definitive answer but to me, there are 2 reasons: 1. The spine of the LP says "Joni Mitchell" but the title doesn't appear. 2. Almost every LP cover was printed incorrectly, with many of the seagulls cropped on the right. It was impossible to read the title of the album becuase it wasn't all there. On the other hand, "JONI MITCHELL" was spelled out in bold and all capital letters. Maybe the company wanted "JM" while the artist, who had complete artistic control, was overriden by the art department. Jim L. Marianne asked, >How did it go that the album >Song to a Seagull >is also called "Joni MItchell." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 01:02:28 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Hi Patti my friend, He said that after this mid-term election was over, he would have to sit down and see where he would be "most useful". He told a story about Benjamin Franklin using this term to explain to his mother why he chose to go into politics when he was talented in other areas. It sounds like in the light of this swell of public interest, he has sped up the process. I know that Hillary Clinton has aspirations of running as well. I believe that the two of them may decide to run as a team. If something like that would happen, I am just curious about who would be in the driver's seat as candidate for president and who would be candidate for vice-president. It just feels like a real possibility. I'm not an expert in these areas so I will just wait and see. It's just a hunch from me. Sherelle Patti wrote: > >Bon dimanche soir! > >I'm running behind the times again and now trying to catch up. > >Sherelle wrote: > >>Did you see him talk about where that title came from? His pastor. I >>really like it too! I agree with everything you are saying. When he was on >>Charlie Rose, he had to break off his conversation about his mom because >>he was getting too emotional about it. I feel that! I lost my mother at >>the same age he lost his but just years before he did. I too felt that my >>mother had so much more life in her. Anyone who has lost a parent at a >>young age can relate. I applaud him because he's taken his grief and >>turned it into a celebration of everything his mother means to him. Very >>touching! >> > >Yes it is. > >This may have already been reported, but since I'm on digest I don't know. >I just heard that he is now thinking of running in 2008. He told Tim >Russert in February that he will not run. But this morning Russert asked >him if it was fair to say that he was considering running, and Barack said >something like "that would be fair." > >What wonderful news! > >"Compasson is not religious business, it is human business, it not luxury, >it is essential for our own peace and mental stablitity, it is essential >fof human survival." -- Dalai Lama > >The beginning of survival! > >With audacious hope, > >Patti P. > > _________________________________________________________________ Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with Live Search! http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:34:07 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! To whom it may interest, sorry to those naysayers but I gotta say it. (Les) I'm convinced. this IS Joni's first (or maybe second or third) draft, there's no doubt in my mind and I predict someday it will sell/be valued at thousands! Just look at the scans! Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:52 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion, njc In a message dated 10/22/2006 7:19:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com writes: in english, i'd define charity as a part of love, a tenderness and an emotional generosity Hi Patrick, This is a beautiful definition. The name of the ecumenical community I'm a domestic sister in is the Brothers and Sisters of Charity. Like the JMDL, it is fertile ground for learning tenderness and emotional generosity. Your definition describes what I've experienced but couldn't put into words. I really appreciate you. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:18:25 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Gratitude What a GIFT the Joni Mitchell Complete, Guitar Songbook Edition, is! Thank you Joni!!!! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:15:52 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Real or fake? The auction will be over in about 35 minutes... Victor NP: Cardinals vs. Detroit On Oct 22, 2006, at 9:34 PM, P. Henry wrote: > To whom it may interest, sorry to those naysayers but I gotta say it. > (Les) I'm convinced. this IS Joni's first (or maybe second or third) > draft, there's no doubt in my mind and I predict someday it will > sell/be > valued at thousands! Just look at the scans! > > Cheers, > > Pat > > -- > "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." > http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:56:49 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: Real or fake? YIKES!!!!!! 257.92. wish joni could verify this as her own----i guess this is why life is just full of mystery and you gotta have faith. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: "list List" Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Real or fake? > The auction will be over in about 35 minutes... > > > Victor > > NP: Cardinals vs. Detroit > > > > > > On Oct 22, 2006, at 9:34 PM, P. Henry wrote: > >> To whom it may interest, sorry to those naysayers but I gotta say it. >> (Les) I'm convinced. this IS Joni's first (or maybe second or third) >> draft, there's no doubt in my mind and I predict someday it will sell/be >> valued at thousands! Just look at the scans! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Pat >> >> -- >> "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." >> http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ >> -- > > !DSPAM:144,453c39a715161060076066! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:07:59 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Real or fake? It sold for US $257.52 Bought by smebd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Victor Johnson Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:16 PM To: list List Subject: Re: Real or fake? The auction will be over in about 35 minutes... Victor NP: Cardinals vs. Detroit On Oct 22, 2006, at 9:34 PM, P. Henry wrote: > To whom it may interest, sorry to those naysayers but I gotta say it. > (Les) I'm convinced. this IS Joni's first (or maybe second or third) > draft, there's no doubt in my mind and I predict someday it will > sell/be > valued at thousands! Just look at the scans! > > Cheers, > > Pat > > -- > "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." > http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:57:40 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Re: Real or fake? SCANS! $257.52 Though I'm no Art Expert, I'm guessing that this is a JM original. I see similarities in some small details, but not in more obvious parts. Why would someone copy it anyway, when they already had the original cover? Except to make a large poster sized version, which this is not. Anyone taking bets? Fess-up time. Who's got it? Doug P. Henry wrote: > To whom it may interest, sorry to those naysayers but I gotta say it. > (Les) I'm convinced. this IS Joni's first (or maybe second or third) > draft, there's no doubt in my mind and I predict someday it will sell/be > valued at thousands! Just look at the scans! > > Cheers, > > Pat > > -- > "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." > http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:18:49 -0700 From: Subject: Joni and God There are articles and interviews spread out over the years where Joni discusses her childhood and adult religious beliefs. As a child she did sing in the choir at, I recall, a Presbyterian church. In articles from about 10-15 years ago, I recall her saying her spirtuality was influenced by a mix of Christian, Buddhist and Native American beliefs. Recently I heard she calls herself a Buddhist. Yet she also still celebrates Christmas. So I think you can say she does have spiritual beliefs but does not follow any one established religion or dogma. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:12:57 -0700 From: Subject: Real or Fake - scans Hmmm, Thanks for the scans (I really didn't want to have to dig out my original vinyls (yes I have two) from the bottom of a big chest and yes, I also have it on tape and 2 CDs, too -) My impression is that the eBay version is much better when observed up close and while there are similarities in the ink illustrations and age, it still feels like it is a copy or was maybe traced and then painted and inked over, perhaps for a commercial art or design class exercise. In Joni's original the seagulls also spell out "Song to a Seagull" but the copy does not. Betting on the outside odds, it is always possible that Joni painted this copy *after* the original, perhaps at the request of a friend. Once I was asked to give away a painting that was exhibited at school to one of the counselors. I did not want to give it up or sell it but to be one the good side of the counselor, I tried to replicate it. The copy I painted did not turn out nearly as good as the original. In college the same thing happened - someone wanted me to give them a painting and instead I painted another copy to give away. The copy did not equal the original. That to me argues against Joni creating the eBay version as a rough study before producing the final product. Sometimes things are just better the first time and are meant to be a "one-off." Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #393 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------