From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #392 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 22 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 392 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: STAS [J Kendel Johnson ] Re: Nostalgia was ["Anita Tedder" ] Re: Joni and God...? [Bob Muller ] Re: poverty, njc [Alice Brown ] Re: real or fake [Victor Johnson ] RE: Barack Obama (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] nice, concise biography [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #391 [Peep Richman ] U.S. Department of Peace - njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Nuri and STAS, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] STAS ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Farewell to summer, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] Re: Farewell to summer, njc [Chris Marshall ] RE: Real or fake? SCANS! ["P. Henry" ] Oh my, Obama! njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni and God...? ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] hide and seek NJC and some news about the western canadian music awards... [mags h ] Re: Joni and God...? [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Joni and religion [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: Real or fake? SCANS! ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Joni and religion ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Joni and religion [Benedicte Nielsen ] RE: Joni and religion [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Joni and religion [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Joni and religion [J Kendel Johnson ] njc, U.S. Department of Peace ["Patti Parlette" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: STAS The official Warner/Reprise release title is "Joni Mitchell". "Song To A Seagull" was part of the original artwork and wound up positioned under the "Joni Mitchell" titling added to the front cover by the record company, so many people commongly refer to that as the title. J Marianne Rizzo wrote: So now I am wondering. . . . How did it go that the album Song to a Seagull is also called "Joni MItchell." Did it not officially have a title? Because it was her first album. . was it called Joni Mitchell? ~ _________________________________________________________________ Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:22:37 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re: Nostalgia was Richard wrote: "Anyway, when I look at the cover of STAS, I experience Proustian epiphanies--I can never look at it with even an ounce of irony. Perhaps it's arrested development, but Joni Mitchell has been my personal soundtrack since I was a child." Richard, that so resonated for me. My older brother came in from a concert at the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London I think it must have been in 1968 and told me that he'd seen a singer he thought I'd like who had an LP coming out soon he thought I'd like it. He went and bought it for me a few weeks later. I can often smell my Mum's old kitchen, my Dad's (very occasional) after shave and connect with myself at that time and space as a 14 year old in a quite extraordinary way when I see that cover. I started playing the guitar and writing because of Joni but "I realized I had to detune my guitar, so I taught myself open D and open G, playing, I'm sure, approximations of her arrangements--it was all by ear." Man, I wish I had been that talented. I would have given my eye teeth to have played Dawntreader but just couldn't understand what the hell she did and would give up trying to work it out. When I finally found the internet and our beloved site and could finally play it after 33 years - it was quite wonderful and very profound for me. Loads of love Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni and God...? And I think equally so in DITS: God goes up the chimney - like childhood Santa Claus (One comes to discover that God is a myth, just like good old Kris Kringle) The good slaves love the good book (People who are sucked in by religion use their respective texts to rationalize their behavior). Of course this is not the point of DITS, but it's inserted in this song about feminism to describe how women are marginalized and subjugated by most, if not all religions. And that's my Sunday sermon for today. Pass the collection plate & give it to Pat so he can buy that fake picture. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:50:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: Re: poverty, njc Hey You! (joinibuds) Arkay, I am wondering why these indians live in poverty. No jobs available? Only low-paying jobs? Descriminated against in terms of good paying jobs? Live in a generally depressed area? Do they have the option to move? I am quite ignorant about the real issues here. I would appreciate you elaborating on this subject. Love, Alice >Arkay wrote: so i kept quiet on the whole poverty subject but then i saw the thing about 3rd world countries(forgive the fact that i dont have the exact quote) but essentialy it was said that there is no 3rd world poverty in teh united states. which once again shows how invisible the native americans are. they live in true squalor, and 3rd world conditions are the norm. people die each year from starvation, bad water, and cold exposure. not to mention the other problems. if you think we are living in such a wonderfully rich country-think again, just because you may not be starving and freezing tonight, doesnt mean others arent. the natives of this land are suffering and the genocide continues simply because they are 'invisible'. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:09:55 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: real or fake I was comparing them side by side and the original is clearly much more detailed and just has a much greater sense of artistry to it, a more discerning eye. The ebay version is oversimplified and everything is off. It just seems made more carelessly, unrefined and amatuerish, as if someone was trying to copy the original but not really coming close to capturing the same workmanship....a vague representation. On the original, the name wraps around one of the curls very cleverly but on the ebay version, its just written inside the lines straight, not really blending in with the rest of the art. Victor On Oct 21, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > I think y'all should bid on this just in case. > > : -) > > I think maybe I am not seeing something right, but I printed out > the part of the drawing (on ebay) that has the "joni MIthcell" on > it . . and I cannot find it written like that on the album cover. . > > > I mean, it is written on the album cover. . > > but not in the same shape. > > but, > like I said, I just think I am missing something . . or something ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:48:59 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Barack Obama (njc) It's funny ...this is how I felt about Newt until just recently...I went from indifference..boarding at times to dislike..then the more I hear him lately..("you know..the more he talks to me the more he reaches me")..I'm liking him more and more. I heard ..of all people ...that Whoopi Goldberg recently declared...."that Newt is her guy." Probably not meant as a vote for him as president ..but more like because he's a straight shooter.....gets her thinking along a different pathway perhaps...and enamored somewhat with his undeniable brilliance. I think the 2008 elections should be very interesting..indeed. Bree >As for Romney and Gingrich, it's funny. I don't want to like either one >but I kind of do. I've never really felt too much of a personal connection >with Repub candidates, even though I vote for them ;-). But Romney has >shown a pretty good track record (just my view from here and maybe opinions >are different from those who know him better in Mass.) I never liked Newt >for many years - just couldn't stand him but now many years later, I have >to admit he is enormously brilliant. Well we shall see! ;-) > >Kakki > _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:03:07 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: nice, concise biography Born in Fort MacLeod, Alberta a young Joan Anderson moved to North Battleford, Saskatchewan with her parents shortly after Word War II. Inspired by her older friend Frankie McKitrick, she begged her parents at age 7 to allow her to take piano lessons which lasted for a year and a half. She also took up drawing and after moving to Saskatoon at age 9, she contracted polio which she forunately recovered from with the love of her family and art. In Grade 7, one of her teachers, Mr. Kratzman encouraged her to craft the written word and she holds him as one of her many influences. By her teens she scraped together enough money to buy a ukele (a guitar being too expensive at the time) and entertained at parties and coffehouses in Saskatoon. Following high school, in 1964, she went to the Alberta College Of Art in Calgary for only one year. Instead, she preferred to be a regular performer at a coffeehouse called The Depression in Calgary. She abandoned her love for painting (at least as a career) and moved to Toronto in search of success as a folksinger. Howver, playing clubs in Toronto in the '60's required a union card, which she couldn't afford immediately and she found herself working days for Simpsons-Sears. She was also pregnant with the child of her former boyfriend back home and gave birth to a girl in February 1965. Fellow folk-singer Chuck Mitchell offered to take the two in, marrying Anderson, but the allure of success and Anderson's age convinced Mitchell to give the girl up for adoption. By the summer of '65 The Mitchells had moved to Detroit. The new Joni Mitchell played the Newport Folk Festival in 1966 and her marriage to Chuck Mitchell fell apart by early 1967. With nothing to tie her down, she moved to Chelsea in New York to be closer to venues up and down the eastern seaboard. With the recording of "The Urge For Going" by legend Tom Rush and other cover versions by a variety of artists she was able to get bookings west to Chicago and south to Florida. New York was still quite elusive and with the help of manager Elliot Roberts she landed gigs in town. While performing in Florida she met David Crosby (The Byrds) who was impressed enough with her talent to convince Reprise Records to record and release the 'Joni Mitchell' album in 1968. By the time of the album's release she was garnering favourable press and was now living in California with David Crosby. The remainder of 1968 saw her playing larger venues including the Miami Pop Festival with Graham Nash (The Hollies). Judy Collins also had a substantial hit with "Both Sides Now" which helped supplement Mitchell's expanding salary. In 1969, Mitchell released 'Clouds' which included her versions of previous hit material she had donated to other artists. She recorded a live album (which was subsequently scrapped) and moved to Laurel Canyon with Graham Nash. She opened tours for Crosby, Stills & Nash and was invited to Woodstock that summer. But an appearance on the Dick Cavett show following the festival convinced her that she shouldn't risk getting stuck in the massive traffic jams. Instead, she played the Equinox Festival in Big Sur that September which would be filmed for release. 'Clouds' won a Grammy in 1970 which dovetailed nicely into the Reprise release of album #3 'Ladies Of The Canyon' eventually selling gold. She decided to take some time off with one, ill-fated, appearance at the disastrous Isle Of Wight Festival. Throughout the remainder of the year she travelled, painted and wrote material for her next album 'Blue'. The album was released in 1971 and became a critical and commercial success with a trip to Billboard's Top-20. By then, she had moved back to British Columbia, Canada to seek solitude on a piece of forested property. With frequent commutes to visit friend David Geffen, Mitchell was able to go back to the stage opening for the likes of Geffen's Asylum records success story Jackson Browne and onward to her own tours of Europe and playing benefit concerts for presidential hopeful George McGovern. 1972 saw the release of 'For The Roses' and her first legit radio hit "You Turn Me On (I'm A Radio)" making her a true commercial success in light of her stance as a pure 'artiste'. Mitchell soon began seeking out musicians who could help her grow musically and speak the musical language that her odd guitar tunings and eccentric rhythms. She hooked up with Tom Scott & LA Express for her next album 'Court And Spark' and even recorded tunes for their albums as well. 'Court And Spark' was released in January 1974 hot on the heals of her pre-Xmas single "Raised On Robbery". A second single, "Help Me", followed pushing the album to #2 over the course of the first half of the year. She embarked on a 50 date tour with LA Express which resulted in the November '74 album 'Miles Of Aisles'. The live version of "Big Yellow Taxi" was also released as a single and again put Mitchell high on the charts. She bought a new house in Bel Air, California, moved in with LA Express drummer John Guerin and settled in as half a dozen year-end awards came her way including 4 Grammy nominations. Mitchell and Tom Scott would share one award for Best Arrangement Accompanying Vocals. Recording commenced in 1975 and after a series of successive demo sessions, Mitchell re-assembled most of the key players from 'Court And Spark' for the November release 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns'. Bad reviews followed based on some of Mitchell's societal lyrics but the album still hit #4 on the Billboard charts. She hopped aboard Bob Dylan's Rolling Thunder Revue to finish out the year with plans for a return tour featuring LA Express again. The tour began in January 1976 and took her all across the US and Canada. As the tour wound down, she split up with John Guerin and instead spent time hanging around with Neil Young. Some friends convinced her to take a cross country journey, which she did and she returned from the road trip with a suitcase full of tunes for her next album 'Hejira' which as recorded that summer and released in November. November was also Mitchell's guest appearance on The Band's "Last Waltz" concert and film for Martin Scorsese. Meanwhile, 'Hejira' was climbing the charts, went gold in December and lingered on the charts through the beginning of 1977. Mitchell continues releasing solo album after solo album and was asked in 1996 to go back through her extensive catalogue and chose the best of her repertoire according to their hit status and then assemble a second disc with tunes she felt were overlooked. The result was Reprise's "Hits & Misses" collection In 1997, Mitchell made frontpage news once again after tracking down her daughter whom she had given up for adoption some 30 years before. _http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Joni-Mitchell-Biography/8CD1873BEC39C3 B548256A42004CDCBB_ (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Joni-Mitchell-Biography/8CD1873BEC39C3B548256A42004CDCBB) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:16:27 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion Benedicte wrote: Is there anything we know about JM and religion? I was surprised when I heard The Sire of Sorrow / Job's Sad Song and God must be a Boogie Man (which I don't understand), because I hadn't noticed any religious references in anything else she'd written. Hi Benedicte, Joni's song LOVE (Corinthians 11:13) from her Wild Things Run Fast album is in her own words, "... an adaptation of Corinthians 11:13, which is a really fine bit of witting on what love is and isn't. I removed some archaic images - like "tho I give my body to be burned" - things and customs not pertaining to this culture." So she can appreciate some aspects of Christianity which leads me to believe she doesn't have a problem with Christianity in general. I think she was raised in the Anglican branch, but I could be wrong. Her lyrics In Rainy Night House include: I am from the Sunday school I sing soprano in the upstairs choir You are a holy man ON the FM radio I sat up all the night and watched thee To see, who in the world you might be I don't know if this is a reference to herself, but maybe at some point in her life she sang in a church choir. I haven't a clue as to who the holy man is but sounds like she had a crush on him if not in real life, in her imagination. Love, Laura NPIMH: LOVE (Corinthians 11:13) Although I speak in tongues Of men and angels I'm just sounding brass And tinkling cymbals without love Love suffers long Love is kind! Enduring all things Love has no evil in mind If I had the gift of prophecy And all the knowledge And the faith to move the mountains Even if I understood all of the mysteries If I didn't have love I'd be nothing Love never looks for love Love's not puffed up Or envious Or touchy Because it rejoices in the truth Not in iniquity Love sees like a child sees As a child I spoke as a child I thought and I understood as a child But when I became a woman I put away childish things And began to see through a glass darkly Where as a child I saw it face to face Now I only know it in part Fractions in me Of faith and hope and love And of these great three Love's the greatest beauty Love Love Love ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:30:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #391 It's a dreary Sunday here in good old New Jersey, but a great day to read, listen to Joni (for me, anyhow), read some important articles in the NYTimes and continue reading "The Glass Castle" by Jeannette Walls....an excellent and truly moving book...so honest. Wanted to thank J. Kendel Johnson ( it's been a long time since I've been active on the Digest; I didn't recognize your name) for his thought provoking writing. I've been thinking about Joni....she has different avenues of self-expression, as we all know, love and respect. Because of her amazing multi-talents, I'm wondering whether Joni allows the flow of her emotions and analysis of some political events and religious thinking, amoung other things, to flow from her incredible brain without very much editing at all. She could be expressing how she feels about a certain subject at one point in time and realizes through her personal growth and continues enlightenment, she may, in fact, see life completely differently at some future time. It's the fact that she shares with us all her intimate thinking without fear of anything that I have grown to respect and love about her. I have always thought that Joni really doesn't care at all, or very little, about how her devoted fans, and the general public perceive her work. I'd imagine she's completely fed up with the politics of recording companies and mass marketing and is now experiencing her world....her life...without the motivation to share herself with as much regularity as she once did. Yet I miss her so very much. Hope everyone is doing well, living life to the fullest and treasuring each day. Love from Bo - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:42:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: U.S. Department of Peace - njc J, thanks for this information. Kucinich talked a lot about establishing this department when he was campaigning... glad to see there are some within the gov't that are on board... "Former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, speaking of his leadership during the Viet Nam War, said, We knew nothing about Vietnamese religion, psychology or culture  and we had no one to tell us. With a Department of Peace, that would never be the case. This department would be actively involved in studying the most human aspects of conflict, and applying ways to resolve them peacefully. " The above has always been my mantra, for decades, & was my point after 9/11 ... we as a nation need to be wise & have someone within gov't in a influential position who understands other cultures & especially their religions (I was a religious studies major & only touched the very tippy tip of a huge iceberg in my studies) since it is the core of all cultures... it is good hearing someone like macnamara saying this ... hindsight none the less ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:54:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Nuri and STAS, njc >ps. I love STAS and the cover< A big meeee toooo Marianne & nuri... it was a lovely time to be alive & young ... we just watched monterey pop & although I wasn't there I was so grateful to be growing up during that time... the fashions & album design were so creative! The music was the same... bummer about the excess of drugs & drink that took away so many talents but this was before that... a little time of dawn before the darkness I suppose... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:57:15 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: STAS Richard> You know, I must be dated! I still love that cover.< Dated r us... nice memories richard... lama sent me that album cover a couple of years ago, I loooovvvveee it! Still need to frame it tho ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:35:00 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: RE: Farewell to summer, njc Holy Taylor Ham, I meant "Astrud Gilberto". Sorry for the typo which compared her to a fecal material. Sheeh, spell checker can't help with Brazilian proper names. Hoo new? :) Jim L. > From: Chris Marshall [mailto:chris@hatstand.org] > Was that a deliberate typo or purely accidental? Regardless, > it made me laugh despite a slightly closeted soft spot for > that song :) >> On 18 Oct 2006, at 02:55, Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama wrote: >> Asturd Gilberto is singing "The Girl From Ipanema" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:31:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Re: Carnivale njc (and Huff) Subject: Re: Carnivale njc Catherine wrote: "Is there a third?" No season 3 for Carnivale. And, no more "Huff" also. What a wonderful show. But at least the final episode tied up some loose ends (but not too neatly of course). I believe they were aware they wouldn't be renewed. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:59:13 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Farewell to summer, njc On 18 Oct 2006, at 02:55, Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama wrote: > Asturd Gilberto is singing "The Girl From Ipanema" in broken > English and the > Japanese lanterns above the patio seem to Was that a deliberate typo or purely accidental? Regardless, it made me laugh despite a slightly closeted soft spot for that song :) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 03:45:51 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! To whom it may interest, here are the actual scans I asked the seller to make. I wish I had scans of the album cover to compare. http://www.yousendit.com/download/qBVdioZTz4M%3D Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:50:26 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Oh my, Obama! njc Wow... Obama is really awesome! Thanks for turning my head in his direction. Here are some words of his that impressed me: _Commencement Address_ (http://www.knox.edu/x9803.xml) Reminded me of Judy Collins' recitation of the following on her album Portrait of an American Girl: From Aaron Copland's Lincoln Portrait "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history." That is what he said. That is what Abraham Lincoln said. "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this congress and this administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance or insignificance can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation. We, even we here, hold the power and bear the responsibility." [Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862] He was born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana, and lived in Illinois. And this is what he said. This is what Abe Lincoln said. "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves and then we will save our country." [Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862] When standing erect he was six feet four inches tall, and this is what he said. He said: "It is the eternal struggle between two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. It is the same spirit that says 'you toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation, and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle." [Lincoln-Douglas debates, 15 October 1858] Lincoln was a quiet man. Abe Lincoln was a quiet and a melancholy man. But when he spoke of democracy, this is what he said. He said: "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth president of these United States, is everlasting in the memory of his countrymen. For on the battleground at Gettysburg, this is what he said: He said: "That from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain. That this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth." So much hope and excitement in what the future can hold for our country and our world.... Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:47:42 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Re: Joni and God...? As with life itself, it seems like she has a love/hate relationship with God. In various interviews, she's said that after the initial commercial success, she retreated to the cabin in British Columbia and spent a year (at least) without electricity. She read "everything I could get my hands on" about life, God, psychology, and philosophy. Karen O'Brien's book "Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light the Definitive Biography" is a good introduction. Anyway, on The Hissing Of Summer Lawns's "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow", she was saying, >Truth goes up in vapors >steeples lean >Winds of change >patriarchs snug in your bible belt dreams >God goes up the chimney like childhood Santa Claus In my opinion, Joni doesn't like "organized religion" (as opposed to God) at all. All the best, Jim Benedicte Nielsen wrote: > Is there anything we know about JM and religion? I was surprised when I heard The Sire of Sorrow / Job's Sad Song and God must be a Boogie Man (which I don't understand), because I hadn't noticed any religious references in anything else she'd written. I guess that and too much big band is where I get a bit turned off, to be honest. Not over the fact that she would be religious, it's the singing about it.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: hide and seek NJC and some news about the western canadian music awards... patrick leader wrote: hide and seek is a beautiful recording that has been in high-frequency replay in my ipod all summer. i first heard it on kcrw, which we've listened to streaming all day at work for much of the year. (kcrwmusic.com, actually) kcrw has also been playing an amazing a capella version of the song, recorded by a group associated with UCLA. i'm totally obsessed with it. i've uploaded it. http://www.yousendit.com/download/qBU%2BpOd5z4M%3D ***** and now, me: patrick! thanks ever so for this wonderful interpretation of hide and seek. i first heard imogen's song on the sound track of the film, garden state. (i think that's where). both a surprise to me, the sound track as well as the story. there's lots of great music out there, it's all about finding it. and the thing that strikes me in this moment is that there are many, many countries out there whose music we have not heard, as yet, in the mainstream , here. hope this makes sense ;P ...currently under the influence of snow falling on winnipeg already!!! with skeleton trees and the whole bit. speaking of wonderful music that you may not have heard... http://www.westerncanadianmusicawards.ca/ this week, winnipeg has the privilege to host the western canada music awards. what a week it has been, the city abuzzin' with song! ... the musical landscape is so tight, two degrees of separation, i was gifted yesterday with a special afternoon of jamming .. reminded me so much of joni fest..anyway, ridley bent, dustin bentall (son of barney bentall) , a couple of kickass unknowns...and three hours of amazing musicianship and harmonizing..i was thrilled to the bone! not much reaches inside my soul than singing and jammin' on rich prairie soil ridley bent is up for songwriter of the year...he's leaning toward country these days and it's fine, so fine. he also does something that he calls "hick hop" .. y'all gotta hear this guy, and live, he's incredible. rambling on... encore une fois, thanks for bringing news of good music to us, patrick leader, who is one of my heros on this list. mags. bring the stars home www.stardome.ca - --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 2006 20:31:14 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Joni and religion On Oct 22 2006, LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >Hi Benedicte, > > Joni's song LOVE (Corinthians 11:13) from her Wild Things Run Fast > album is in her own words, "... an adaptation of Corinthians 11:13, which > is a really fine bit of witting on what love is and isn't. I removed some > archaic images - like "tho I give my body to be burned" - things and > customs not pertaining to this culture." > > So she can appreciate some aspects of Christianity which leads me to > believe she doesn't have a problem with Christianity in general. I think > she was raised in the Anglican branch, but I could be wrong. > > Her lyrics In Rainy Night House include: > >I am from the Sunday school >I sing soprano in the upstairs choir >You are a holy man >ON the FM radio >I sat up all the night and watched thee >To see, who in the world you might be > > I don't know if this is a reference to herself, but maybe at some point > in her life she sang in a church choir. I haven't a clue as to who the > holy man is but sounds like she had a crush on him if not in real life, > in her imagination. > >Love, >Laura > Hi, thanks for your message! Oh yes, actually I am aware of LOVE, I love the way she sings it; and if there is anything about the New Testament that I can relate to it's that one passage. I fail to fully understand the bit about seeing as a child though. Saw "A Scanner Darkly" recently, and realisd the title alludes to this passage as well. I'd hope your interpretation of how she sees Christianity is right - I think it is. After I sent the email I realised that people can indeed sing about religion without being cheasy - Nick Cave is full of references to Christianity. Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 2006 20:42:50 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Joni and God...? On Oct 22 2006, Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama wrote: > As with life itself, it seems like she has a love/hate relationship with > God. In various interviews, she's said that after the initial commercial > success, she retreated to the cabin in British Columbia and spent a year > (at least) without electricity. She read "everything I could get my hands > on" about life, God, psychology, and philosophy. Karen O'Brien's book > "Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light the Definitive Biography" is a good > introduction. > >Anyway, on The Hissing Of Summer Lawns's "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow", she >was saying, >>Truth goes up in vapors >>steeples lean >>Winds of change >>patriarchs snug in your bible belt dreams >>God goes up the chimney like childhood Santa Claus > > In my opinion, Joni doesn't like "organized religion" (as opposed to God) > at all. > >All the best, >Jim > Hey thanks! I was getting a little concerned that there may be some religious awakening that I hadn't heard of. Not that I mind anyone, inlcuding JM, to be religious, but sometimes when people's career takes a turn toward the religious it cna turn out pretty bad! Come to think of it, although it's not entirely related, there are plenty of references to her growing up in religious environment... "in the church they light the candles..." "I went to every wedding in that little town...". I guess for Canadian standards, that's pretty normal. Now that we are talking religion: would you be a lama, or what...? Best, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:54:13 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion In a message dated 10/22/2006 2:31:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, bn208@cam.ac.uk writes: I fail to fully understand the bit about seeing as a child though. Hi Benedicte, The lyrics go: "Love sees like a child sees As a child I spoke as a child-- I thought and I understood as a child-- But when I became a woman-- I put away childish things And began to see through a glass darkly Where, as a child, I saw it face to face Now, I only know it in part Fractions in me Of faith and hope and love" I understand these lyrics to mean that with becoming a woman, she lost some of her ability to know love more fully. She can't completely know faith, hope, and love like she could as a child. This reminds me of William Blake's reference to innocence, experience, and higher innocence. The woman in Joni's song seems to be in a similar situation as Blake's "experience" stage. She is only able to see "through a glass darkly." She is out of touch with the deeper aspects of her soul. She is in a place where life is complicated by the human mind and love cannot be fully enjoyed. She is unable to know love as with the innocence of a child who can let go and see love clearly. It is a new testament scripture thing to acknowledge the beauty in the innocence of children like this. Children are said to be the greatest in the kingdom of God: "At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (from Matthew 18) The kingdom of heaven is where Love reigns. Like you, I really love the way Joni sings the song. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:54:30 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! Here are 600dpi scans of the front cover of STAS: http://download.yousendit.com/5B23F38272426C73 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of P. Henry Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:46 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Real or fake? SCANS! To whom it may interest, here are the actual scans I asked the seller to make. I wish I had scans of the album cover to compare. http://www.yousendit.com/download/qBVdioZTz4M%3D Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:17:09 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni and religion Yes, but "Love's a repetitious danger" Seriously, I always prefer the KJV for its poetry (I also prefer it to Joni's, though I approve of her reversal of sexist language.) I know that other translations substitute "love" for "charity." Not being a Biblical scholar I'm not sure which is the more accurate translation: 1 Corinthians 13 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 2006 23:28:09 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Joni and religion On Oct 22 2006, LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >Hi Benedicte, > > The lyrics go: > >"Love sees like a child sees > >As a child I spoke as a child-- >I thought and I understood as a child-- >But when I became a woman-- >I put away childish things >And began to see through a glass darkly > >Where, as a child, I saw it face to face >Now, I only know it in part >Fractions in me >Of faith and hope and love" > > > > I understand these lyrics to mean that with becoming a woman, she > lost some of her ability to know love more fully. She can't completely > know faith, hope, and love like she could as a child. > > This reminds me of William Blake's reference to innocence, > experience, and higher innocence. The woman in Joni's song seems to be in > a similar situation as Blake's "experience" stage. She is only able to > see "through a glass darkly." She is out of touch with the deeper aspects > of her soul. She is in a place where life is complicated by the human > mind and love cannot be fully enjoyed. She is unable to know love as with > the innocence of a child who can let go and see love clearly. > > It is a new testament scripture thing to acknowledge the beauty in > the innocence of children like this. Children are said to be the greatest > in the kingdom of God: "At that time the disciples approached Jesus and > said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child > over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you > turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." > (from Matthew 18) The kingdom of heaven is where Love reigns. > > Like you, I really love the way Joni sings the song. > >Love, >Laura > - --------------- Humm, yeah.... I guess my problem with understanding this stems from my perception of children as selfish little bastards, to put it in rough terms. In the same vein, I also suspect that I would have found Jesus a pretty intolerable character, even if I respect the principles of Christianity. He did demand a lot...! But I guess there is another side of it all that is true too. Enough from me, it's close to midnight here, so have a good Sunday! Best Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 2006 23:44:09 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: RE: Joni and religion On Oct 22 2006, Richard Flynn wrote: >Yes, but > >"Love's a repetitious danger" > - ----------------- Ah! tell us about it...! - ----------------- > >Seriously, I always prefer the KJV for its poetry (I also prefer it to >Joni's, though I approve of her reversal of sexist language.) I know that >other translations substitute "love" for "charity." Not being a Biblical >scholar I'm not sure which is the more accurate translation: - ---------------------- I looked it up, charity translates Latin caritas which renders Greek agape which designates Christian love. An on-line etymological dictionary suggests caritas is deployed to avoid the sexual connotation of amor. So, depending on where you draw the line....! Seems to me that Jesus drew it differently from many Christians nowadays. It makes sense not to translate to 'charity', because "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." seems to say that you can be charitable, but if you are not loving, then you are lost. Joni's version says 'love does not look for love' and King James 'seeketh not her own', not exactly the same thing, I think maybe I prefer the Joni-version. I like this text, it's good for sorting out emotions...! Best Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:11:14 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion In a message dated 10/22/2006 5:28:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, bn208@cam.ac.uk writes: I guess my problem with understanding this stems from my perception of children as selfish little bastards, Oh yeah, mine definitely are. They have so little control of things in their environment otherwise. You know.... "Bless the beasts and the children For in this world they have no voice They have no choice" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:14:02 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion In a message dated 10/22/2006 5:44:28 P.M. Central Standard Time, bn208@cam.ac.uk writes: I looked it up, charity translates Latin caritas ubi caritas et amor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:21:31 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Bon dimanche soir! I'm running behind the times again and now trying to catch up. Sherelle wrote: >Did you see him talk about where that title came from? His pastor. I really >like it too! I agree with everything you are saying. When he was on Charlie >Rose, he had to break off his conversation about his mom because he was >getting too emotional about it. I feel that! I lost my mother at the same >age he lost his but just years before he did. I too felt that my mother had >so much more life in her. Anyone who has lost a parent at a young age can >relate. I applaud him because he's taken his grief and turned it into a >celebration of everything his mother means to him. Very touching! > Yes it is. This may have already been reported, but since I'm on digest I don't know. I just heard that he is now thinking of running in 2008. He told Tim Russert in February that he will not run. But this morning Russert asked him if it was fair to say that he was considering running, and Barack said something like "that would be fair." What wonderful news! "Compasson is not religious business, it is human business, it not luxury, it is essential for our own peace and mental stablitity, it is essential fof human survival." -- Dalai Lama The beginning of survival! With audacious hope, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:32:55 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Joni and religion Some of the other afficianados can confirm or correct this, but I believe the "holy man" is widely regarded to be Leonard Cohen. LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: Benedicte wrote: Her lyrics In Rainy Night House include: I am from the Sunday school I sing soprano in the upstairs choir You are a holy man ON the FM radio I sat up all the night and watched thee To see, who in the world you might be I don't know if this is a reference to herself, but maybe at some point in her life she sang in a church choir. I haven't a clue as to who the holy man is ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:18:37 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, U.S. Department of Peace And now *more* wonderful news, reading today's digest. Thank you for posting all this, J! I'm going to go read everything I can about it. We need this. "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein They *will* give peace a chance. It's *not* just a dream some of us had. Imagine! I see little green tufts of peace seeds sprouting up all over. Not to mention that Joni is coming back! ("Tell those girls that you've got Joni, she's coming back home") I just watched Nancy Pelosi on 60 Minutes and I'm enthused to think she might be the first female Speaker of the House. (Is that correct?) I have always thought that we need more women in positions of power. She said her greatest accomplishment is being a grandmother. And she had five children in six years! She has a personal stake in the future of our world. Note to Chuck: I see that your old classmate, John Larson, is the only congressman from CT who supports this new department. I also saw him (twice, I think) on the Pelosi segment. He's a shoe-in to keep his seat, and deservedly so, IMO. At UConn we have a relatively new "minor" in Peace Studies, and our Arabic program is growing. We are teaching the children well. Peace, love and understanding. I am so glad to hear all this good news. It will inspire me and keep me charged up for the next two weeks, which will be brutal here in CT. The negative political ads and outright lies (that people are believing -- I know, because I hear it in the phone calls I suffer through making) have been real downers. Many of the ads use fear as their base. They are shameful. All we are saying.... Love, Patti P. NPIMH: Peace train's sounding louder.... - ----------- This is njc, but also relevant to Joni's latest album project. The Peace Alliance (the national organization leading the campaign to establish a U.S. Department of Peace) is holding its national conference in Washington, DC February 3-5, 2007, and they're working on lining up some "big name" musical artists to lend their presence, songs and words with live appearances. Judy Collins sang and spoke at last years Peace Alliance conference, and Flea has become an outspoken proponent of the campaign  in fact, I am going to New Orleans next week to work a Peace Alliance booth at the Red Hot Chili Peppers show  and the prospect of a U.S. Department of Peace has even become a candidates debate issue in several states, so awareness and momentum are definitely building. Most importantly, there are 75 sponsors in the House and 2 in the Senate, so significant progress has been made in Congress, with much more work to do ahead, of course. Much more info available at www.ThePeaceAlliance.com I'm also pasting in a column from this past week's L.A.Times, along with a response from the Peace Alliance. In my opinion, it is truly time we become "as sophisticated in the ways we nurture peace as we are in the ways we wage war", as stated below. J Give Dept. of Peace a chance? By Al Martinez The Los Angeles Times October 16, 2006 PERHAPS you have noticed that when it comes to excess and empty noise, I am not the most tolerant person in the world. Take the subject of peace, for instance. On almost any given day, including Sundays, I receive e-mails from near and far that inform me of various peace seminars, peace retreats, peace picnics, peace dances, peace calendars and peace speeches. Interspersed are requests for volunteers to hold antiwar signs at various intersections and placards that ask for a passing horn-honk to indicate that a motorist is, after all, for peace, even though he is too busy to do more than honk. Once in a while someone like Cindy Sheehan pops up and there is a flurry of movement centered on her as she challenges war in the name of her war-killed son, but even that fades away, and her advocates disappear like birds scattered into flight. I wrote in the style of an angry dog one day recently that there was no organized peace movement of any consequence in this country and that infrequent instances of placard-carrying protesters chanting "No more war" are the equivalent of using a water gun to fight a firestorm. Then I heard from Wendy Greene. While there may not be a massive antiwar movement, she informed me, there is indeed a peace movement. She added: "Big difference." She was talking about an effort to establish a Cabinet-level U.S. Department of Peace and Nonviolence to achieve harmony between street gangs, spouses, nations, various ethnic and religious groups and others inclined toward maiming or killing one another. Big job. The idea was so intriguing that I met with Greene one day at Inner-City Arts, located in a large warehouse-like building in the middle of L.A.'s skid row, where she works part time. Greene is also director of outreach for the Peace Alliance, a national nonpartisan organization dedicated to the establishment of a Department of Peace. Admitting that I had never heard of either the alliance or its goal is certain to bring admonishments for my failure to keep informed. The group, I am told, has a database of about 40,000 supporters and is involved in an effort to have a bill passed in Congress to establish such a department. Now in committee, it is being sponsored by 75 members of the House and two member of the Senate. "Peace is nonpartisan," Greene declared in the bold manner of a true believer but then was forced to admit that all but one of the sponsors so far, if not all of its 40,000 supporters, are Democrats. The single non-Democrat is an independent. Given the current temper of the nation, that shouldn't surprise anyone. Greene, though only 40, could have emerged from the streets of 1960s Berkeley marching to end the war in Vietnam, such is her passion for peace. Instead, she was born into a military family. Her father is a retired Air Force colonel, her grandfather was a major general in the Air Force, her brother is a colonel in the Air Force and a cousin serves as a fighter pilot in the Marine Corps. She laughs at that and says, "I'm a warrior for peace." Being for peace is like being for apples, in the sense that just about everyone is theoretically in favor of it. But no one wants an apple with a worm in it, and, similarly, many will argue that they don't want just any kind of peace. There is this kind of peace and that kind of peace. A perfect peace, like a golden apple, might not even be possible given the aggressive tendencies of our species. There is much to be said in favor of a Cabinet-level department dedicated to a kind of ultimate serenity, but one has to wonder exactly how it would pursue its goals, short of disbanding the NRA, shutting down the Pentagon and dragging Donald Rumsfeld off in chains. Greene replied that it would have a budget roughly 2% the size of the Defense Department's and would act as a clearinghouse, "a beacon on the hill," coordinating the activities of peace workers in the field, who would be scampering about like squirrels, damping brush fires of conflict on the streets, in schools and, one supposes, wherever they would flare up. A peace academy would be established as a fully accredited university similar to West Point that would train peacekeepers in their jobs of indoctrination, advocation and mediation. As described in a more formal definition in an alliance press release, their mission would be "to research, articulate and facilitate nonviolent solutions to domestic and international conflict." While I am certainly all for peace and wormless apples, I fear that a new bureaucracy might devolve into spending time and money cranking out press releases to sustain itself through sloganeering, thereby forgetting its initial promise. Institutionalizing efforts once made through riots and sit-ins may be today's more formalized method of attaining the same ends. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Having said all of that, I remain in favor of such a department because at least its pursuit is an organized and passionate effort toward a legitimate and even desirable goal. That's a lot better than picnicking for peace on the lawn of the Federal Building or honking one's horn against a war that isn't listening. - - --------------------------------- Al Martinez's column appears Mondays and Fridays. He can be reached at al.martinez@latimes.com. NOTES FROM THE PEACE ALLAINCE in response to this column: A cabinet-level Department of Peace would effectively reduce violence in our schools, communities, country, and around the world: There is currently no organized approach by the U.S. government that aims at creating nonviolent solutions to domestic and international conflict. By giving the interests of peace a full cabinet position, we make it a national priority. The Department of Peace legislation envisions a close working relationship between existing government agencies and private organizations. It would bring a new focus to peace and violence prevention lacking in our current scattershot approach. Obviously, peace work can be and in some cases already is a party of existing agencies. When such efforts are placed under one umbrella, however  such as in the establishment of our Department of Homeland Security they attain a higher level of synergy, effective coordination, and influence upon the thinking of American citizens. The establishment of the Environmental Protection Agency by Richard Nixon did not begin our commitment to the environment, yet it raised it to a much higher level of national priority. And so should it be with the interests of peace. The Department of Peace would work with the Department of Defense. Former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, speaking of his leadership during the Viet Nam War, said, We knew nothing about Vietnamese religion, psychology or culture  and we had no one to tell us. With a Department of Peace, that would never be the case. This department would be actively involved in studying the most human aspects of conflict, and applying ways to resolve them peacefully. We should be as sophisticated in the ways we nurture peace as we are in the ways we wage war. Elect peace. We cant afford not to. For a list of statistics on violence, please go to: http://www.thepeacealliance.org/content/view/23/ - ---------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #392 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------