From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #390 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 21 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 390 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: njc, Justice in our own hands, and Wally Lamb [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Justice in our own hands NJC [Alice Brown ] RE: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] RE: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] Justice in our own hands, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Duncan Shiek, "Court and Spark" [Bob Muller ] Re: how to create PDF files (NJC) [Patti Witten ] RE: Real or fake? ["Richard Flynn" ] Crossing party lines? NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Real or fake? [] Re: njc, Barack Obama ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Real or fake? [Nuriel Tobias ] Carnivale njc [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Carnivale njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Real or fake? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Carnivale njc [Catherine McKay ] Nostalgia was [RE: Real or fake?] ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] Without a Trace (with Joni content) ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] Re: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] Re: Carnivale njc [Nuriel Tobias ] RE: Real or fake? now njc about late willem de kooning ["patrick leader" ] Imogen Heap's "Hide and Seek", njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] RE: Real or fake? ["P. Henry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:12:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: RE: njc, Justice in our own hands, and Wally Lamb Kate wrote: "LOL victor... thank you & hugs Rick I have no idea what the connecting point is between what you wrote & what I wrote..." I started LOLing when i read all those "How dare you!"s in Rick's post. Nothing to do with you, Rick, believe me, in fact i think that if you don't send at least one furious post to the member of your choice once a year you get banned or something, it's just that last night i was watching the Catherine Tate Show, UK listers know her, a lovely comedian, and there's this character she's doing on nearly every show, Derek Faye, a pale old man, bald, always wearing a fancy suit, still living with his mother and behaving in an extremely effeminate way, but he's in denial about his sexuality, and in every Derek Faye sketch Derek is facing someone who naturally assumes he is gay, in a friendly way that is, and once Derek hears the word "gay" he goes "Who, dear? Me, dear? Gay, dear? No, dear" and then he becomes extremely offended and causes chaos and his catchphrase is always "How dare you call me gay! How dare you! How very dare you!", and then he always gets up, grabs his leather purse, shouts at a male companion who is, somehow, always with him, "Come on, Leonard, we're off!", and leaves. Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:40:08 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Hawaii quakers (njc) Hi Sherelle, I love what you wrote. I had the same sense that they were so quickly getting back to normalcy and it made me glad. I love Hawaii and the people there so much. I have some very personal connections/affinities there and consider it my true home away from home. I love how they responded so calmly and that they were like "O.K. now let's get back to the games!" ;-) Kakki > That is such a hoot Kakki! Here I thought I was the only one giving > football scores!!!! Once the initial scare was over and everyone for the > most part was all right, I think people may have just wanted a sense of > normalcy again! I think sports like football do that for a lot of people. > It's too funny that so many others were had the same exact thought process > as my brother! Take care Kakki! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: Re: Justice in our own hands NJC Hi JoniBuds, Benedicte wrote: >What confuses me about the US is that it seems to me that it is the >same >section of the population which is on the one hand anti-abortionist and >fundamentally Christian and on the other pro-death penalty. How do >these >things come together? I validate your confusion about this. After all, isn't god/jesus love? No!!!!! Remember that I am an atheist, so when I'm critical of god/jesus, I am only criticising a myth. But the god in the O.T., N.T., and Koran, is not loving. He says he is. But his ACTIONS show contempt for humanity, a disregard for human feelings, human life, animal life, and moral accoutability. He violated most of the ten commandments: murdered 10s of thousands of people including "civilians: women and children, stealing (pilfering), divorced Israel, covets the worship and love of humans, and "lies" says he's merciful and compassionate, but destroyed and crippled thousands for their disobidence and will torture most people forever because they don't accept his "love." So, is it any wonder that his followers talk and push for "moral values" while showing a disregard for human feelings and human life?? Makes all the sense in the "world" to me, oun intended. That's why our mostly religious world is about to destroy itself. Love, Alice P.S. The ten commandments that he didn't violate all have to do with worshiping and loving him above all else. He does a perfect job of that! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:39:49 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? Richard wrote: "I compared the printed lettering and the art on the album cover (remember those?) to the picture on ebay, and I am at least 95% certain that it's a fake." Why? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:44:24 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? Kakki wrote: "FAKE. Fakety, fake, fake fake!" mmm... yeah... I guess I just want to believe. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 06:50:49 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Justice in our own hands, njc Benedict wrote: >I think the bottom line is that murder is considered the most base crime, >so to see that a country has an institution that legally murders its own >citizens . . . me: This is well put. . . death penalty is Legal murder >What confuses me about the US is that it seems to me that it is the same >section of the population which is on the one hand anti-abortionist and >fundamentally Christian and on the other pro-death penalty. How do these >things come together? I have often thought this too. . . ie. about people that are both anti abortionist. . AND they are pro death penalty. . . it seems conflicting. . doesn't it? then again there are those who are accepting of abortion and are also against the death penalty. . . this, to me, seems conflicting too. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 04:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Duncan Shiek, "Court and Spark" I was going to say "How dare you assume that I know the answer to that?" but as it turns out I do. Yes, he did record it for the "A Case Of Joni" CD that Reprise never released. Happy Friday guys! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:26:08 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: how to create PDF files (NJC) Anne wrote to Garrett: > About 95% of all PCs have Acrobat Reader installed, which lets you read PDFs, > but you need separate software to create PDF files. I missed the original post so I don't know if this is relevant, but take a look at the "print" dialog box in your word processing or image editing software first. For example, open a Word document and select "print" from the file menu. You'll see a button for "Save As pdf." Just follow through and there you have it. It's a static pdf, meaning you can't edit it, but you can email it as an attachment, for instance. Follow the same steps in PhotoShop and many other applications to make pdfs. Best, Patti - -- http://pattiwitten.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:42:17 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Real or fake? Because even for a "study" toward the album cover, the artist doesn't come close to demonstrating Joni's artistic competency. What's more, the block printing of "JONI MITCHELL" doesn't resemble the block printing on the album cover very closely. The seagulls also look off. The list does not permit attachments. If it did, I'd submit comparative scans and let everyone judge for themselves. Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of P. Henry Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:40 AM To: rflynn@frontiernet.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Real or fake? Richard wrote: "I compared the printed lettering and the art on the album cover (remember those?) to the picture on ebay, and I am at least 95% certain that it's a fake." Why? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:06:33 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Crossing party lines? NJC With all this talk about Obama...leaving out his first name because I'm not sure how to spell it..it got me thinking about could I ever vote for a democratic nominee for president. I think my very first vote in the presidential races was for Gerald Ford? I have always voted Republican when it came to president but have crossed over in state or local races. Not much..but I have done it. I know very little about Obama......I did a search but didn't get much back..at least nothing that I didn't already know. I can see why many democrats see him as a rising star...he doesn't have the baggage that would certainly carry over like it would with other possible nominees from the democratic pool.....he is charismatic..and without a shrill bone in his body. His vision for the country and where he stands on many key issues are not known to me at this time. (On the Republican side..I'm looking at Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich. ) Since writing this upper portion yesterday...I put it in drafts overnight...I saw a bit of Barack Obama on Larry King. Now taking in consideration Larry King does not ask probing questions ..and therefore I couldn't get a true grasp of his politics......I liked him on a personal level. I liked what he had to say about immigration...about personal responsibility....I like what he had to say about his wife..his mother. The clip I saw from the Democrat convention where he said......."Whether black or white...Hispanic..Asian....Indian...we are all Americans." He's very real but yet polished...with no slickness it seems. Anyway..at this time ..he is surely a person that Democrats and be proud of and where all Americans can too. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:36:53 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: Re: Real or fake? <> Speaking of real and fake and the Antique Roadshow (or the Antique Freakshow as labeled by Mad Magazine- lol), I once saw an item on the Antique Roadshow that turned out to be fake. But the fascinating thing of it was that the appraisers stated that the forgery was worth far more than the original!! I love the album cover of STAS primarily because it is so dated. Those swirly colorful patterns remind me of when I took flute lessons as a child, and the band director would hand out folders to store our sheet music in. The artwork on the folders would typically show an instrument like a sax or clarinet or something with swirling colored patterns coming out of the instrument's soundhole. Very similar to the STAS cover art. I cherished my sheet music, and found the folders both enchanting and hypnotic. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:57:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Hi Cassy, I saw Barack on Oprah, Charlie Rose, and Larry King Live and I have to tell you how impressed I was with him. I will do the same in checking for his book at the library as well. His words were like a breath of fresh air because they deal with putting aside bi-partisan bickering to find real solutions for our country. He is a peacemaker but yet an innovator and I really like that about him. He's willling to see the good on both sides of each party. I would vote for him in a heartbeat. Sherelle Cassy wrote: Barack Obama was yesterday's (Wednesday) guest on the Oprah Winfrey show. I wasn't able to watch it so I taped it to watch later. I did see the first five minutes and the more I see of this guy the more I like him. I firmly believe he will be our first black president someday. He was talking about his new book "The Audacity of Hope", one I'll pick up at the library if they have it. Warmly, Cassy _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:06:36 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Real or fake? Oh Pat, I'm sorry! I did not mean to imply it was a bad rendering or a joke. It truly reminded me of stuff I used to paint and draw when I was a young teen. I got STAS around the time it first was released and went nuts over the cover art. Talked my parents into buying me one of those fancy pen and ink sets so that I could create similar looking work. I painted the top of my desk with similar scenes and then drew almost the same sailing ship with my new ink pen. On another kiind of related note, I was reading an article the other day about how creative persons' art changes as they age. Part of art education training is learning how to identify certain characteristics of painting done by children, teenagers, adults, etc. A trained eye can often estimate the age of the artist. The article mainly discussed how researchers have found that creative artists who develop dementia in later years paint and draw much more precisely than when they were younger. However, they also found that the dementia painters tend to, at the same time, lose the ability to convey emotion in their work. It is the effects of shrinkage in the pre-frontal lobe - takes one part away but enhances another part. It was interesting to me because my father was a painter who suffered from dementia and his paintings did become much more detailed and precise in his later years but were more flat emotionally. I just thought one got better as they got older ;-) Well, to some extent. Kakki > Kakki wrote: > > "FAKE. Fakety, fake, fake fake!" > > mmm... yeah... I guess I just want to believe. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:21:53 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc, Barack Obama Hi Patti, Did you see him talk about where that title came from? His pastor. I really like it too! I agree with everything you are saying. When he was on Charlie Rose, he had to break off his conversation about his mom because he was getting too emotional about it. I feel that! I lost my mother at the same age he lost his but just years before he did. I too felt that my mother had so much more life in her. Anyone who has lost a parent at a young age can relate. I applaud him because he's taken his grief and turned it into a celebration of everything his mother means to him. Very touching! Love, Sherelle Patti wrote: Hi Cassy and Jerry and other Obama fans (aren't we all now?): I just watched him on Larry King and was re-impressed. He's got heart and humor and humility -- that's what I think. I cannot disagree with anything he says, plus he is rather gentle and not strident in getting his points across, and strong at the same time. The audacity of hope. I like that! Now here is someone who can be uniter, not a divider! I also reallly liked how he talked about his mom, who taught him empathy. Empathy! Bring it on! She died about ten years ago and he talked about the hole she left. I also liked how he spoke of his wife. Obviously a lot of love and mutual respect going on there. At the end they played a clip from when he was on Jon Stewart. Jon asked him how he felt about all the hype, and he said something like he's almost hyped as much as Jon Stewart, and Stewart totally cracked up. He then went on to praise Stewart. He won't comment on running for President until the November 7th elections are over. Man, I wish he'd come stump for my man Ned! I'm hoping for Jackson Browne, too, but that may just be a dream some of us here had. With audacious hope, Patti P. NPOMTV: Mets vs. Cardinals....Go Mets! _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Real or fake? mia wrote: "I love the album cover of STAS primarily because it is so dated." You took the "i love the album cover of STAS primarily because it is so dated" out of my mouth. Very well said, mia. It reminds me of therapy paintings that one may draw during a dark period, kind of self healing work done during one's winter. STAS's art director, sorry, can't remember his name, died not long ago, and with this one suddenly showing up, hmmm... During my life i bought 8 copies of STAS on vinyl and at least 5 on CD for both sad and funny reasons. For years now it seems that most pop artists launch their careers with some really silly, stupid, flat and commercial debuts, and then years later, you hear that they "have grown", "musicaly developed", "discovered themselves", "100% personal", "more personal than ever", and that they "think fondly of their debut" when "they were too young to take themselves seriously". Joni, as you know, is not one of those geeks. Someone posted a couple of days ago and said that STAS is the more naive Joni. Sorry, i don't remember who you are, but - DO YOU MIND?! :) Hugs and great weekened everyone, Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:52:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Carnivale njc We're really enjoying Carnivale (the HBO tv series that most of you watched a couple of years ago). Ami Madigan is such a great actor. And Nick Stahl plays that tricky character so well. They're all doing brilliant work. Probably the best HBO series i ever saw - better than Rome anyway. Were you a Carnivale fan? Nuri - --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Carnivale njc Any Ugly Betty fans out there? I am truly addicted. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:44:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Real or fake? - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > mia wrote: > "I love the album cover of STAS primarily because it > is so dated." > > You took the "i love the album cover of STAS > primarily because it is so dated" out of my mouth. > Very well said, mia. It reminds me of therapy > paintings that one may draw during a dark period, > kind of self healing work done during one's winter. It reminds me of the kind of drawings a lot of young girls were doing at that time. My sistera and I used to draw stuff like that. That was back in the days when I sort of knew how to draw. Or we would embroider these elaborate patterns, including flowers, ducks, ferns & so on on our jeans. I guess Joni did a better job of it though! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Carnivale njc - --- "Gerald A. Notaro" wrote: > Any Ugly Betty fans out there? I am truly addicted. > > Jerry > Yes, to both Carnivale and Ugly Betty. I was getting a bit tired of Carnivale in the middle of the 2nd season though. Is there a third? We were renting them on video because trying to figure out whether we've even got HBO and if so, where it is, is a pain. We've got satellite and I can never figure out what is where. I love Ugly Betty. I don't remember the name of the actress, but she was in Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants. A really appealing and sweet character and so completely different from the usual skinny blonde model types - a real person. Love the character and her honesty and complete lack of meanness. I've become a couch potato since moving. Haven't touched a guitar in about six months and am watching some really stupid - but some very good - shows on TV. Also love "Prison Break" but am not sure where it has gone. They've either changed its schedule or gone on hiatus for a week or two. I hate when they do that. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:57:46 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Nostalgia was [RE: Real or fake?] You know, I must be dated! I still love that cover. I can vividly remember going down to the "Soul Shack" at 12th & G in DC specifically to buy the record (I was 13 at the time and had gotten my D-28 in January as a combination birthday/Christmas gift from my parents). There used to be little classified ads in the back of _Sing Out_ magazine advertising lead sheets for Joni Mitchell songs from Gandalf Music. (I sent away for some lead sheets, but they never arrived.) I had heard Ian & Sylvia and Tom Rush and Buffy Sainte-Marie and Judy Collins's versions of Joni's songs. I don't remember how I heard the album was coming out, but I was there to buy it on the day of its release. After listening to it countless times, I decided to figure out some songs--I think I began with "Cactus Tree"--and I realized I had to detune my guitar, so I taught myself open D and open G, playing, I'm sure, approximations of her arrangements--it was all by ear. In a very short time, some older friends started trotting me out at local coffee houses. "Here's this young boy who plays Joni Mitchell songs." I remember one girl (she was 18 and I was 14) who took me to play at DC's Iguana Coffee House off Thomas Circle. Under her and her boyfriend's wing I also attended a Pete Seeger fundraiser for the DC (Dow Chemical) 9--also in a church--how progressive and friendly churches were to me in my youth! Anyway, when I look at the cover of STAS, I experience Proustian epiphanies--I can never look at it with even an ounce of irony. Perhaps it's arrested development, but Joni Mitchell has been my personal soundtrack since I was a child. I've been doing my own serious writing for most of today and guess I was on a roll when I decided to post here--forgive the length. Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 5:45 PM To: Nuriel Tobias; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Real or fake? - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > mia wrote: > "I love the album cover of STAS primarily because it > is so dated." > > You took the "i love the album cover of STAS > primarily because it is so dated" out of my mouth. > Very well said, mia. It reminds me of therapy > paintings that one may draw during a dark period, > kind of self healing work done during one's winter. It reminds me of the kind of drawings a lot of young girls were doing at that time. My sistera and I used to draw stuff like that. That was back in the days when I sort of knew how to draw. Or we would embroider these elaborate patterns, including flowers, ducks, ferns & so on on our jeans. I guess Joni did a better job of it though! Catherine Toronto - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 10:41:03 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? Jim wrote: "I think it's a homage, not the real thing. 1. The previous owner put it into a house sale and didn't explain or document it for the new seller. If it was genuine, they would have related a story, at least. 2. Joni wouldn't have done all of that pen and ink stuff twice without changing it drastically. I don't think she *could* have done it twice, for love or money. She just wasn't into copying, ever." Hi Jim, I see your reasoning... why in the world would she copy it over... and then I thought about something else you said... the part about: "The previous owner put it into a house sale and didn't explain or document it for the new seller. If it was genuine, they would have related a story, at least." Well, on the face of it that's pretty easy. If this were something the owner treasured as private and... who knows when they're going to die... instead of "The previous owner put it into a house sale" perhaps they died? It DOES say it's an estate sale... and it seems like maybe the sellers, the couple were probably, one of them anyway, a sibling of the deceased owner... but, beyond that, what if it were something they grabbed when Joni wasn't looking or she accidentally left behind? Wouldn't she have started over with the same 'gypsy woman' motif? Too many possibilities... Had I been a bit more foresighted at 17 back when I had all those items I mentioned before I would've cherished them much more than I did. I wouldn't have been so foolish as to leave them (along with the pre-Elliot Roberts publicity pics of Chuck and Joni together and of Joni alone and that one lone polaroid shot of the young Joni, Chuck and myself hanging out in the dressing room) in my footlocker which was stolen when I took leave stateside while in the service. At any rate I can appreciate how this could have happened to end up on ebay. Call me naive, call me hopeful, call me stupid if you like but I have a feeling... Best Regards, Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 10:53:30 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? Richard, Rough copy or rough draft, who knows? It's been a long time since I've seen it happen but we used to park our attachments here: http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/jonimitchell/photos Ya gotta sign up but what the hey? Thanks, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - ------------------ > Because even for a "study" toward the album cover, the artist doesn't come > close to demonstrating Joni's artistic competency. What's more, the block > printing of "JONI MITCHELL" doesn't resemble the block printing on the > album > cover very closely. The seagulls also look off. The list does not permit > attachments. If it did, I'd submit comparative scans and let everyone > judge > for themselves. > > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of P. > Henry > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:40 AM > To: rflynn@frontiernet.net > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Real or fake? > > Richard wrote: > "I compared the printed lettering and the art on the album cover (remember > those?) to the picture on ebay, and I am at least 95% certain that it's a > fake." > > Why? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:04:00 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Without a Trace (with Joni content) I was half-listening to a rerun of "Without a Trace" coming from the other room while I worked in this one, half keeping track of the plot about some missing pregnant teen--and what should make my ears perk up? "Little Green" Normally I hate the way Jerry Bruckheimer puts ding dang rock videos into every ding dang middlebrow piece of crap he produces, but this was Joni! Hope she got some good royalty pennies from that one. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:16:17 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Real or fake? Kakki, No problem, mi amiga. I guess that's my downfall. I have problems doing a decent job on the guy in hangman. LoL!!! I can see how an artistic type could get really excited over that cover. It sure was a huge impact on me, seeing as how I'd just seen her a few months before... The part that I liked? It was the little fish-eye shot of our lady on the back, bundled against the city cold, guitar-in-tow just as I'd seen her smetimes coming over from the Harrington hotel across the street right outside the Cellar... Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - --------------------- > Oh Pat, I'm sorry! I did not mean to imply it was a bad rendering or a > joke. It truly reminded me of stuff I used to paint and draw when I was a > young teen. I got STAS around the time it first was released and went > nuts > over the cover art. Talked my parents into buying me one of those fancy > pen > and ink sets so that I could create similar looking work. I painted the > top > of my desk with similar scenes and then drew almost the same sailing ship > with my new ink pen. On another kiind of related note, I was reading an > article the other day about how creative persons' art changes as they age. > Part of art education training is learning how to identify certain > characteristics of painting done by children, teenagers, adults, etc. A > trained eye can often estimate the age of the artist. The article mainly > discussed how researchers have found that creative artists who develop > dementia in later years paint and draw much more precisely than when they > were younger. However, they also found that the dementia painters tend > to, > at the same time, lose the ability to convey emotion in their work. It is > the effects of shrinkage in the pre-frontal lobe - takes one part away but > enhances another part. It was interesting to me because my father was a > painter who suffered from dementia and his paintings did become much more > detailed and precise in his later years but were more flat emotionally. I > just thought one got better as they got older ;-) Well, to some extent. > > Kakki > >> Kakki wrote: >> >> "FAKE. Fakety, fake, fake fake!" >> >> mmm... yeah... I guess I just want to believe. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:31:42 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Real or fake? Lori, Not that big a clue if they don't know what they have, yes? Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - -------------------- Lori writes: "I agree with you, Les. The biggest clue is the starting bid of $4.99." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:41:12 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Real or fake? Well put, Jamie. Further, I could see an artistic type copying the graphics but not to include the 'JONI MITCHELL' worked into the lines... Cheers, Pat - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - ---------- Jamie Z wrote: "That may be so Hell but if you look at the STAS album cover it is the 'same' signature as the one in the photograph... Either it's an alternative 1st take... or it's a very good copy... (evn the paper has been aged...)" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Carnivale njc Catherine wrote: "Is there a third?" No season 3 for Carnivale. Bloody freaking renewing system, no matter what TV series you're on, they'll never let you enjoy a closure. Nooooo, why should they end a plot for you? What, are you a child or something? Does life has a closure? The nerve! "How does it end?" is probably the most common question in the world since TV was invented and it won't be answered in the next season either! "I've become a couch potato since moving. Haven't touched a guitar in about six months and am watching some really stupid - but some very good - shows on TV." Yes, sad story indeed, Catherine, but how does it end? "Also love "Prison Break". Just wait for the final episode where none of the questions will be answered! Nuri - --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:15:44 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Real or fake? now njc about late willem de kooning interesting concept about creative artists being a little more precise, but perhaps more flat emotionally with the onset of senile dementia. i really really dislike willem de kooning, the abstract expressionist, a dislike i share with my sister, who is now working on her doctorate in art history. some of his most famous paintings, from his most successful period, the early '50s, are of female torsos, and they are just ugly. ugly color, ugly gesture, and they seem to be saying ugly things about their subjects. see this one: Woman I (six stages, final state), 1950-52 http://www.moma.org/images/collection/FullSizes/00163042.jpg there's a lot of controversy about his late '80s early '90s paintings, which are much calmer, and often quite beautiful. see this quote from the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_de_Kooning: "In the 1980s de Kooning was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and a court declared him unfit to manage his estate, which was turned over to conservators. There is much debate over the relevance and significance of his later paintings, which became clean, sparse, and almost graphic, while alluding to the biomorphic lines of his early works. Some say his mental condition and attempts to recover from a life of alcoholism had rendered him unable to carry out the mastery indicated in his early works, while others see these late works as prophesizing the clean, surface-oriented painters of the 1990s and 21st century..." i was shocked at how much i loved the late paintings, when i first saw them in gallery shows. i had pretty much dismissed de kooning as just not to my taste. one time at moma, looking at a particularly gorgeous late de kooning, my sister and i rather meanly agreed that alzheimers and testosterone depletion were probably the best things that ever happened to the artist. here's an 'untitled' from 1987. http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images_706_45138_willem-de-kooning.jpg patrick np - nina simone, turn me on, todd terry main remix - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org]On Behalf Of kbhla@sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:07 PM To: pat@chelu.com Cc: joni@smoe.org trained eye can often estimate the age of the artist. The article mainly discussed how researchers have found that creative artists who develop dementia in later years paint and draw much more precisely than when they were younger. However, they also found that the dementia painters tend to, at the same time, lose the ability to convey emotion in their work. It is the effects of shrinkage in the pre-frontal lobe - takes one part away but enhances another part. It was interesting to me because my father was a painter who suffered from dementia and his paintings did become much more detailed and precise in his later years but were more flat emotionally. I just thought one got better as they got older ;-) Well, to some extent. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:02:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Imogen Heap's "Hide and Seek", njc I love this track. I first heard it when David Dye had her on "The World Cafe". She gives great interview. Her voice sounds like Jenny Goodspeed singing through Laurie Anderson's electonics. I'm building a compilation of southern rock: I already had tracks from The Allman Bros, Skynard and Rossington Collins then added downloads of "Green Grass and High Tides" and "Amie". Although they might not be southern rock, "Radar Love" and "Tripe Faced Boogie" (live) sound great on the current compliation disc. What other bands/songs belong on a compilation of southern rock, in epic-rock-of-the-80s mode? Do ZZ Top's "Legs" or the Allman/Clapton collaboration "Bell Bottom Blues" qualify as "Southern Rock?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:22:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Ugly Betty Catherine wrote: "A really appealing and sweet character and so completely different from the usual skinny blonde model types - a real person." But darling the series is about how that appealing and sweet girl is turning into a skinny blonde model. We had the Israeli version of the original South American show a couple of years ago, "Ugly Esther" in our case, it was a huge success and my favorite character was the skinny blonde girl. Honest! I've had so many female friends you'd think i'm a pimp or something and the skinny blonde ones are just as sweet and real. They have to be because for some reason the whole world is against them:) Nuri - --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:43:53 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Real or fake? (My correspondence with the seller, so far...) Hi Jane, I am a member of the Joni Mitchell group where you are undoubtedly getting most of your questions about this item from It's getting a lot of airplay on our mailing list. You just might strike it rich with this one. Imagine my surprise when I was looking over the details on your auction page and noticed that, although you give your location as Bakersfield, your zip code, or the person who actually has the print, is mine also, right here in Tamuning, Guam! How about that? So... I was wondering if it would be possible somehow to see it or even scan it into a jpeg firsthand. Putting extra pics up was a good move but it might be worth your while to scan it yourself and post it full size on your auction as there is a raging discussion going on right now and, as I'm sure you've noticed, you are getting a LOT of traffic on it. It's intriguing for us Joni fans as it could just be a copy by someone or it might just be an original first-draft one-of-a-kind must-have history piece. Cheers, Pat - --------------- Thanks so very much for the info Pat but I have no clue how to scan it to the computer like that or I would. I had no clue this would make such a fuss. I have no way of telling if it's an original of hers or a good copy by a fan???? I will try to do the scan thing but I dont think it will fit on my scanner, can that hurt it? Jane - --------------- Thanks for responding Jane, I appreciate it. It sounds like it will be some hassle for you but the best would be if you could scan it (no it shouldn't hurt it if you're gentle) in sections like you did the pics and then pay for 'supersize' images on your setup. Heck, you've already sold it for $20 and I bet there will be a showdown at the end. It would be worth the trouble in dollars and cents, I'm sure, since it already is. I have sold a few things myself and, IMO, those supersize scans could definitely mean money in your pocket. BTW, I am one of those who think this just might be the real deal. Again, thanks for writing me back. Regards, Pat ps - What about that zip code? Are you really here on Guam? - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #390 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------