From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #377 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 13 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 377 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Holy War Wallpaper [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Retro Joni Covers, Volume 8 [Bob Muller ] Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem ["Martin Gile] Re: njc, torture is bad karma [Alice Brown ] Re: Hejira article photo [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] An Incense Owl for a Chelsea Morning [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Just a thought..... [Patti Witten ] njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] sharing a Joni story [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Joni's writing again! [Bryan ] Re: Holy Sheet, Batman! [J Kendel Johnson ] Just a thought..... ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) [Norma Jean Garza ] Re: Holy Sheet, Batman! ["arkay o'malley" ] Re: Joni on computers ["Lori Fye" ] Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) [Norma Jean Garza ] San Franciscophobia by Garrison Keillor [NJC] ["Richard Goldman" ] Vote for your favorite Logo!! [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Anybody in Atlanta Area? ["Cassy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:39:09 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Holy War Wallpaper A little premature I know but, I have uploaded my latest wallpaper. It is for the upcoming song, Holy War. Feedback is welcome. Mark in Sydney NP Banks of The Wabash - Rufus Wainright ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Retro Joni Covers, Volume 8 Since I'm fixin' to head out of town for awhile this evening, I thought it might be prudent to put this month's flashback out a little early. So moving sequentially, here is Volume 8, remastered to the best of my ability and chock full of some rare unreleased live recordings by names you'll recognize as well as a couple of REAL oddballs. And since most all of them come from the collection of Wally Breese's collection, there's a certain sentimentality to them as well. The link: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F96CBC4811044FFD The tracks: 1. Bobby Kimball - Woodstock 2. Trish Colter/Paul Read - A Case Of You 3. Lou Barlow - Blonde In The Bleachers 4. Gary Zack - Winter Lady 5. Sara Craig - This Flight Tonight (Live '93) 6. Holly Cole - River (Live '96) 7. Marianne Faithful - Amelia (Live '83) 8. James Taylor - For Free (Live '70) 9. James Taylor - Woodstock (Live '97) 10. Dion - Both Sides Now 11. The Neighborhood - Big Yellow Taxi 12. Indigo Girls - River 13. Sisterboy - A Strange Boy 14. Anne Haigis - Harry's House/Centerpiece 15. Pinhead Gunpowder - Big Yellow Taxi 16. Sergio Mendes - Chelsea Morning 17. The Athenians - Night In The City 18. Annika Fehling - Twisted (Swedish) 19. Nana Mouskori - Both Sides Now (French) Bob NP: Buddy Guy, "Cities Need Help" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:42:49 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem Hi Lucy Thanks for sharing your thoughts about your travels through France. It must have been vry moving. I've always been aware of the context of Kipling's poem, and agree with you that it can be seen to express a very undesirable world-view. But I think that it can be taken another way (particularly if you ignore the awful ending). Various parts can be read as very good advice for anyone. To me, it seems to be about having self-confidence to allow youself to act and dream, without losing touch with reality.. For instance: >If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, >But make allowance for their doubting too; And: >If you can dream - and not make dreams your master, >If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim; >If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster >And treat those two impostors just the same; And here again: >If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, >Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch, Interpreted that way, it all seems to be about achieving what you can, but keeping your feet on the ground. Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 05:04:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: Re: njc, torture is bad karma Dear JoniBuds, >Norma Jean wrote about the beautiful imagery in the beautiful bible that she looked at >as a kid, but that the picutes of jesus tortured on a cross where intuitively awful, even >a kid understands that torture is wrong. If you read the old testament, you will find killing and/or torture and/or threats on just about every page. The bible depicts an egomaniac terrorist god who's "holy" goal is for everyone to believe and that he's really good, and that we are the one's who are bad and that we deserve to be tortured forever, but if we will just trust him, he'll spare us from it. How do you trust a tyrannical, narcissistic killer and torturerer? But if you don't, you'll be tortured forever. This theology is true for christianity and islam. No wonder the whole fucking world is going nuts and becoming more and more narcissistic and violent. It's funny how most americans don't see their religion for what it is. They just accept that god is good, and hope they go to heaven. Holy shit!! We have got to wake up and see that these texts do not depict a good anything. It's mythology and a horrific one. And if you don't buy this shit you can't get elected to office in this country. Same in islamic countries. P.S. and that picture of jesus tortured to death on the cross, that was to satisfy his loving father's wrath. Yea, let's all worship him and build our lives around his goodness and mercy and then we can all go to heaven after we torture and kill each other. white-washed hawks pedal hate and call it love I am preaching love, I am religion has failed us (and will destroy us if we don't wake up!!!) Love, Alice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:27:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Hejira article photo It's a great picture - full of emotion. I agree that it's a '74 pic from that tour. Thanks for sharing it. Bob NP: Elvis C, "King Horse" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:39:11 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: An Incense Owl for a Chelsea Morning I had never seen one... http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-60s-ERA-CAST-IRON-INCENSE-OWL_W0QQitemZ320037381459QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43403QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Les, maybe one for the Glossary? And should it be: "I will bring you incense Owls by night" or: "I will bring you incense owls by night"? Bob NP: Bruce S, "Incident on 57th Street" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:01:33 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: Just a thought..... Les (London) wrote: > ...and probably completely uninformed by what it takes to host such a thing, > but if La Mitchell is hell bent on keeping the 'music industry' out of the > loop in the dispersal of her next recording, could jonimithcell.com not be > the 'selling' agent for it? I imagine jonimitchell.com could be the *portal* for sales, if the server can handle the traffic. That would truly be something. There are many models now for independent distribution of major releases -- Aimee Mann's record company and Dave Matthews' record company are good examples-- so la Mitchell should have no trouble escaping the clutches of the majors, if she has no legal obligations to any of them. It would be something to see, yes? Patti - -- http://pattiwitten.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:05:04 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: njc oh !!!! this beautiful black boy (8th grader ) just left my class and as he was leaving he was singing .. . "don't it always seem to go .. . . " I was so excited. . I played that a week ago for them! And he is singing it today!!!! I gave him a big hug!!!!! _________________________________________________________________ Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:52:07 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: sharing a Joni story I'm thrilled about the new album in the works and I loved reading about the back story behind the Hejira songs. The heavy cocaine use explains why the tunes have so many verses! Our friend, singer Coral Thuet in Dan Diego, just sent us this Joni story I thought I'd pass along. Backstory: 29 Palms Inn is a funky inn out in the desert north east of Palm Springs CA, the kind of place you could go and not be mobbed.... "Did you hear about our brush with Joni Mitchell? We were at 29 Palms doing a little gig with Pass the Drum and Joni Mitchell was one of 6 people by the pool listening to the band. It was really amazing! I'll never forget how cool and nice she was. She was there with her daughter and a man. We were pretty freaked out... Nobody had the guts to talk to her except me. I talked to her just a little bit but it was really cool. I later slept in the same bed she did! I was hoping something would rub off on me. That's my Joni Mitchell story.> Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Re: Joni's writing again! That's great, but the lyrics of that anti-war song published in the Canadian article are...well, not exactly among her best. We'll see how it turns out. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Holy Sheet, Batman! Cassy wrote: From: "Ruth Davis" <<< The wind is in from Africa. The sea is full of _______. I think she says "The sea is full of sheep" as in followers. Everyone doing what everyone else is doing, wearing the same clothes partying in the same places etc. Yes, I am sure she sings "sheep" -- intending to describe white caps that would form at the tops of waves in the sea when the wind is "in from Africa". I think it's just a painterly image, setting the scene of loneliness and exile from which she speaks to "Carey". Although Joni uses "sheep" to speak of mindless follower types in her later work, I rather dought that meaning here, as none of the rest of the song -- or much of the rest of the Blue album -- approaches that sort of social commentary. J ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:17:56 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Just a thought..... >From: "Ross, Les" >Subject: Just a thought..... >...and probably completely uninformed by what it takes to host such a >thing, >but if La Mitchell is hell bent on keeping the 'music industry' out of the >loop in the dispersal of her next recording, could jonimithcell.com not be >the 'selling' agent for it? >Les (London) I was thinking along similar lines. . . WhaT can WE DO to help her? Joni, would you like our help? (even tho you say you don't email. . maybe someone will give you this message and you will know that we WANT TO HELP). . Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:31:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon Very cool thing to do suze. I'm with you on celebrating his b'day rather than remembering his murder. >I had a great Lennon Birthday as well ... We drove into NYC yesterday afternoon and spent hours at Strawberryfield ... singing with all the other Lennonites. Some came to sing - some came to listen - some came just to feel ... it was beautiful. < ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:34:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon Hi Sherelle, we all came up on stage singing that chorus during the next to last song instant karma (we all shine on) just before the finale! >This sounds like it was a fantastic and heartfelt event! That is one of my favorite John Lennon Songs along with "We All Shine On".< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:56:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: eve ensler njc Great interview with her last night on Tavis Smalley (who mentioned Dr. MLK as his major influence). She has a new book, is very well spoken about the state of the world & the choices we face. She puts it into common sense terms. Bree & Kakki, I found myself thinking that you might be open to what she has to say. In the meantime a new study from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore reports that about 655,000 Iraqis have died since the U.S.-led invasion. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:59:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Norma Jean Garza Subject: Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) Dearest Alice, I did become enraptured with those illustrations by celebrated old masters on our Bible, as a little girl. Hey, I was around three, four, five years old---a toddler, with a big book in front of me, whenever I would go visit my parents, and of course, I was attracted to the colors of these masterpieces You make it seem as if I was stupid little girl for appreciating El Greco, Cola dell' Amatrice, Dalsgard, Rembrandt and many more. The book also had pictures of daily life in the Middle East back then, before all shit started to hit the holy land fan with the Israelis and Palestinians. In fact, the book was first copyright in 1952 and life back then in the "Holy Land" seemed like it was pretty laid back and just living like peacefully. Now, it's all messed up. You see Alice, I love the "evidential power of beauty." Be it on a bible or on the smile of a child or a Joni Mitchell song. You say, I said I knew intuitively that torture was bad. I did not know what torture was. I knew harsh spankings from my dad, without understanding what I had done wrong, other than cry. Then, upon seeing such colorful depictions, of a man called "Jesus," of whom I barely knew, being beaten, in front of my eyes, I knew it was "mean." The "dog-eat-dog," "eye for an eye," hatred and vengeance you refer to, yes, is scrawled all over the Old Testament, which is the part of the Jewish Scriptures that Islam took for its own, and leaving the New Testament out. I'm not going to debate religion with you, but before you start throwing stones at me, try to understand that, I, myself prefer the new covenant--the recognition of truth by it's beauty and simplicity--and to me, Jesus, music, especially Joni's, art, and true love has allowed me this beautiful simplicity I need to exist. As Hans Urs von Balthasar notes, that "every experience of beauty points to infinity." because that's where I'm headed, Alice. I prefer to make the bitter-sweet journey full of spices like saffron and sage and roses all around. And yet, it comes with a heavy price, because like Warren Zevon sang, *I help the man with the thorny crown carry his cross all around the flim-flam tinsel towns of lies and hypocrisy.* It's not easy, Alice, because that's just the way life is, but my cross makes it all worth while, along with Joni Mitchell playing on my i-pod. And you know what? You can't take beauty away from me, much less my cross or my crown or my i-pod. And if you want to take Jesus away from me, take my life on with your own hands. I've studied Judaism, Islam, different sorts of Christianity, Buddhism. I've got, from my blood lineage, being of Spanish ancestry, Jewish Sephardic blood, European blood, Arab blood, and from the New World, I've got Native-American blood running through my veins. You know why I grieve? Do you see why I relate to Joni and always have, since I was just 12 years old? No, leave me alone because I ain't preaching religion to you or anybody. I like to keep it to myself and just live like Thomas Merton. You're the one cramming your fist down my throat. Even though I've known many Catholic priests with the pornographic watches, looking and longing on the sly, it will not take me away from that which has guided me to communicate with complete compassion. I choose the beauty I want and it's not on the sly or on lies....it's my family, my experiences, my Joni artistry, my pets, my neighbors, my plants and the whole world, so leave me alone! Oh, and you have no idea how much grief I have gotten because of Joni on a Neil Young mailing list and a couple more musical bulletin boards, making fun of her and ridiculing me for liking her style. But guess, what? I'm as firm as a rock----and I'm not going to thaw out or freeze, nor fade away, okay? So, don't start wanting to blind me, Alice, with your hatred of religion or of the beauty I see. "Pulchra sunt quae visa placent" (beautiful things are those that which, when seen, please) ~Thomas of Aquinas~ Norma Jean PS If you want to talk Christ dying on the cross for his Father, let's take it off line, because I've got lots to express. On line, I'll leave the hissing of Jesus' name off your ears. The Spirit talks in spectrums. + -- Alice Brown wrote: > Dear JoniBuds, > > >Norma Jean wrote about the beautiful imagery in > the beautiful bible that she looked at >as a kid, > but that the picutes of jesus tortured on a cross > where intuitively awful, even >a kid understands > that torture is wrong. > > If you read the old testament, you will find > killing and/or torture and/or threats on just about > every page. The bible depicts an egomaniac > terrorist god who's "holy" goal is for everyone to > believe and that he's really good, and that we are > the one's who are bad and that we deserve to be > tortured forever, but if we will just trust him, > he'll spare us from it. How do you trust a > tyrannical, narcissistic killer and torturerer? But > if you don't, you'll be tortured forever. This > theology is true for christianity and islam. No > wonder the whole fucking world is going nuts and > becoming more and more narcissistic and violent. > It's funny how most americans don't see their > religion for what it is. They just accept that god > is good, and hope they go to heaven. Holy shit!! > We have got to wake up and see that these texts do > not depict a good anything. It's mythology and a > horrific one. And if you don't buy this shit you > can't get elected to office in this country. Same > in > islamic countries. > > P.S. and that picture of jesus tortured to death > on the cross, that was to satisfy his loving > father's wrath. Yea, let's all worship him and > build our lives around his goodness and mercy and > then we can all go to heaven after we torture and > kill each other. > > white-washed hawks pedal hate and call it love > > I am preaching love, I am > > religion has failed us (and will destroy us if we > don't wake up!!!) > > Love, Alice Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:25:42 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon Oh wonderful Kate!!! I can feel the goosebumps from here!!! I'm so happy that you had a chance to make a difference musically like this!!!! Love, Sherelle >From: "Kate Bennett" >To: "'Sherelle Smith'" >CC: >Subject: RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:34:51 -0700 > >Hi Sherelle, we all came up on stage singing that chorus during the next to >last song instant karma (we all shine on) just before the finale! > > >This sounds like it was a fantastic and heartfelt event! That is one of >my >favorite John Lennon Songs along with "We All Shine On".< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:42:39 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) hi wow - thanks norma jean - that was an absolute pleasure to read ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norma Jean Garza" To: "Alice Brown" Cc: Sent: 12.October.2006 6:59 PM Subject: Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) > Dearest Alice, > > I did become enraptured with those illustrations > by celebrated old masters on our Bible, as a little > girl. Hey, I was around three, four, five years > old---a toddler, with a big book in front of me, > whenever I would go visit my parents, and of course, I > was attracted to the colors of these masterpieces You > make it seem as if I was stupid little girl for > appreciating El Greco, Cola dell' Amatrice, Dalsgard, > Rembrandt and many more. The book also had pictures of > daily life in the Middle East back then, before all > shit started to hit the holy land fan with the > Israelis and Palestinians. In fact, the book was first > copyright in 1952 and life back then in the "Holy > Land" seemed like it was pretty laid back and just > living like > peacefully. Now, it's all messed up. > > You see Alice, I love the "evidential power of > beauty." Be it on a bible or on the smile of a child > or a Joni Mitchell song. You say, I said I knew > intuitively that torture was bad. I did not know what > torture was. I knew harsh spankings from my dad, > without understanding what I had done wrong, other > than cry. Then, upon seeing such colorful depictions, > of a man called "Jesus," of whom I barely knew, being > beaten, > in front of my eyes, I knew it was "mean." > > The "dog-eat-dog," "eye for an eye," hatred and > vengeance you refer to, yes, is scrawled all over the > Old Testament, which is the part of the Jewish > Scriptures that Islam took for its own, and leaving > the New Testament out. I'm not going to debate > religion with you, but before you start throwing > stones at me, try to understand that, I, myself prefer > the new covenant--the recognition of truth by it's > beauty and simplicity--and to me, Jesus, music, > especially Joni's, art, and true love > has allowed me this beautiful simplicity I need to > exist. As Hans Urs von Balthasar notes, that "every > experience of beauty points to infinity." because > that's where I'm headed, Alice. I prefer to make the > bitter-sweet journey full of spices like saffron and > sage and roses all around. And yet, it comes with a > heavy price, because like Warren Zevon sang, *I help > the man with the thorny crown carry his cross all > around the flim-flam tinsel towns of lies and > hypocrisy.* It's not easy, Alice, because that's just > the way life is, but my cross makes it all worth > while, along with Joni Mitchell playing on my i-pod. > And you know what? You can't take beauty away from me, > much less my cross or my crown or my i-pod. And if you > want to take Jesus away from me, take my life on with > your own hands. > > I've studied Judaism, Islam, different sorts of > Christianity, Buddhism. I've got, from my blood > lineage, being of Spanish ancestry, Jewish Sephardic > blood, European blood, Arab blood, and from the New > World, I've got Native-American blood running through > my veins. You know why I grieve? Do you see why I > relate to Joni and always have, since I was just 12 > years old? No, leave me alone because I ain't > preaching religion to you or anybody. I like to keep > it to myself and just live like Thomas Merton. You're > the one cramming your fist down my throat. > > Even though I've known many Catholic priests with the > pornographic watches, looking and longing on the sly, > it will not take me away from that which has guided me > to communicate with complete compassion. > I choose the beauty I want and it's not on the sly or > on lies....it's my family, my experiences, my Joni > artistry, my pets, my neighbors, my plants and the > whole world, so leave me alone! > > Oh, and you have no idea how much grief I have gotten > because of Joni on a Neil Young mailing list and a > couple more musical bulletin boards, making fun of her > and ridiculing me for liking her style. But guess, > what? I'm as firm as a rock----and I'm not going to > thaw out or freeze, nor fade away, okay? > > > So, don't start wanting to blind me, Alice, with your > hatred of religion > or of the beauty I see. > > "Pulchra sunt quae visa placent" (beautiful things are > those that which, when seen, please) ~Thomas of > Aquinas~ > > Norma Jean > > PS If you want to talk Christ dying on the cross for > his Father, let's take it off line, because I've got > lots to express. On line, I'll leave the hissing of > Jesus' name off your ears. The Spirit talks in > spectrums. > > > + > -- Alice Brown wrote: > >> Dear JoniBuds, >> >> >Norma Jean wrote about the beautiful imagery in >> the beautiful bible that she looked at >as a kid, >> but that the picutes of jesus tortured on a cross >> where intuitively awful, even >a kid understands >> that torture is wrong. >> >> If you read the old testament, you will find >> killing and/or torture and/or threats on just about >> every page. The bible depicts an egomaniac >> terrorist god who's "holy" goal is for everyone to >> believe and that he's really good, and that we are >> the one's who are bad and that we deserve to be >> tortured forever, but if we will just trust him, >> he'll spare us from it. How do you trust a >> tyrannical, narcissistic killer and torturerer? But >> if you don't, you'll be tortured forever. This >> theology is true for christianity and islam. No >> wonder the whole fucking world is going nuts and >> becoming more and more narcissistic and violent. >> It's funny how most americans don't see their >> religion for what it is. They just accept that god >> is good, and hope they go to heaven. Holy shit!! >> We have got to wake up and see that these texts do >> not depict a good anything. It's mythology and a >> horrific one. And if you don't buy this shit you >> can't get elected to office in this country. Same >> in >> islamic countries. >> >> P.S. and that picture of jesus tortured to death >> on the cross, that was to satisfy his loving >> father's wrath. Yea, let's all worship him and >> build our lives around his goodness and mercy and >> then we can all go to heaven after we torture and >> kill each other. >> >> white-washed hawks pedal hate and call it love >> >> I am preaching love, I am >> >> religion has failed us (and will destroy us if we >> don't wake up!!!) >> >> Love, Alice > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:52:08 -1000 From: "arkay o'malley" Subject: Re: Holy Sheet, Batman! i always thought the line was " the wind is in from africa and last i couldnt sleep..." >From: J Kendel Johnson >Reply-To: J Kendel Johnson >To: Cassy , Ruth Davis , >joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Holy Sheet, Batman! >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:10:29 -0700 (PDT) > >Cassy wrote: From: "Ruth Davis" > ><<< The wind is in from Africa. >The sea is full of _______. > >I think she says "The sea is full of sheep" as in followers. Everyone >doing what everyone else is doing, wearing the same clothes partying in the >same places etc. > >Yes, I am sure she sings "sheep" -- intending to describe white caps that >would form at the tops of waves in the sea when the wind is "in from >Africa". > > I think it's just a painterly image, setting the scene of loneliness and >exile from which she speaks to "Carey". > > Although Joni uses "sheep" to speak of mindless follower types in her >later work, I rather dought that meaning here, as none of the rest of the >song -- or much of the rest of the Blue album -- approaches that sort of >social commentary. > > J ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:47:05 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni on computers > From the REAL interview (merci infiniment, Les!): > > "She cheerfully concedes she doesn't own a cellphone, a computer or use > e-mail. > > "I don't believe in them. I just don't want 'em. Computers are eating the > earth. They are frying people's brains. They are mental illness personified, > and if you really want to know, I think they are part of the manifestation > of human insanity." This may explain why Joni doesn't join us at Jonifest. (Try to type that 3 times, real fast and accurately.) She thinks we're all nuts. ; ) Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Norma Jean Garza Subject: Re: njc, torture is bad karma (longish) :) Querida Alice, I feel sad for the misunderstanding of words. Please let's just be true, loyal Joni-list friends, is we agree or disagree. I understand what Joni means sometimes about "computers." But we're different, being Joni-amigas/amigos. We understand what the masses have ignored for so long and still don't get. But, we're getting there. I'll post something later, why I recently told an internationally known priest, when I was with him in Mexico this past April, how I have come to truly understand the poisonous dangers of organized religion. We really had it out intensely for about 45 minutes, in front of a large number from his community. I understand where you're coming from, Alice. Con Mucho Carino, Norma Jean PS Padre and I made a truce and he's still one of my mean 76 year ol' daddies...I just spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. I miss him and he misses me...it's those nuns of his that hold their rulers without a heart everytime I'm near him. But they're trying with all they know and they're good and I understand why they are so absurdly possessive of him whenever I'm around and that's because they don't understand what Padre and I understand, so they strike out, out of fear. - --- Alice Brown wrote: > Dear Norma Jean, > > I didn't understand your response so I read my > post again. Your interpretation was different than > what I wrote. My only reason for siting your post > was to make a point that even little children can > understand "mean" behavior and torturous imagery. > Do you know what I mean? > > I didn't mean to criticize you at all. > > If you'd like to have a religious discussion > off-list, that might be interesting. The point of > my post was that if our core beliefs/values are > taken from religions with a "god is good" "people > are wicked" "us and them" "believe or be tortured > for all eternity" mentality, then our world will > reflect that and it does. > > Love, Alice > > Norma Jean Garza wrote: > Dearest Alice, > > I did become enraptured with those illustrations > by celebrated old masters on our Bible, as a little > girl. Hey, I was around three, four, five years > old---a toddler, with a big book in front of me, > whenever I would go visit my parents, and of course, > I > was attracted to the colors of these masterpieces > You > make it seem as if I was stupid little girl for > appreciating El Greco, Cola dell' Amatrice, > Dalsgard, > Rembrandt and many more. The book also had pictures > of > daily life in the Middle East back then, before all > shit started to hit the holy land fan with the > Israelis and Palestinians. In fact, the book was > first > copyright in 1952 and life back then in the "Holy > Land" seemed like it was pretty laid back and just > living like > peacefully. Now, it's all messed up. > > You see Alice, I love the "evidential power of > beauty." Be it on a bible or on the smile of a child > or a Joni Mitchell song. You say, I said I knew > intuitively that torture was bad. I did not know > what > torture was. I knew harsh spankings from my dad, > without understanding what I had done wrong, other > than cry. Then, upon seeing such colorful > depictions, > of a man called "Jesus," of whom I barely knew, > being > beaten, > in front of my eyes, I knew it was "mean." > > The "dog-eat-dog," "eye for an eye," hatred and > vengeance you refer to, yes, is scrawled all over > the > Old Testament, which is the part of the Jewish > Scriptures that Islam took for its own, and leaving > the New Testament out. I'm not going to debate > religion with you, but before you start throwing > stones at me, try to understand that, I, myself > prefer > the new covenant--the recognition of truth by it's > beauty and simplicity--and to me, Jesus, music, > especially Joni's, art, and true love > has allowed me this beautiful simplicity I need to > exist. As Hans Urs von Balthasar notes, that "every > experience of beauty points to infinity." because > that's where I'm headed, Alice. I prefer to make the > bitter-sweet journey full of spices like saffron and > sage and roses all around. And yet, it comes with a > heavy price, because like Warren Zevon sang, *I help > the man with the thorny crown carry his cross all > around the flim-flam tinsel towns of lies and > hypocrisy.* It's not easy, Alice, because that's > just > the way life is, but my cross makes it all worth > while, along with Joni Mitchell playing on my i-pod. > And you know what? You can't take beauty away from > me, > much less my cross or my crown or my i-pod. And if > you > want to take Jesus away from me, take my life on > with > your own hands. > > I've studied Judaism, Islam, different sorts of > Christianity, Buddhism. I've got, from my blood > lineage, being of Spanish ancestry, Jewish Sephardic > blood, European blood, Arab blood, and from the New > World, I've got Native-American blood running > through > my veins. You know why I grieve? Do you see why I > relate to Joni and always have, since I was just 12 > years old? No, leave me alone because I ain't > preaching religion to you or anybody. I like to keep > it to myself and just live like Thomas Merton. > You're > the one cramming your fist down my throat. > > Even though I've known many Catholic priests with > the > pornographic watches, looking and longing on the > sly, > it will not take me away from that which has guided > me > to communicate with complete compassion. > I choose the beauty I want and it's not on the sly > or > on lies....it's my family, my experiences, my Joni > artistry, my pets, my neighbors, my plants and the > whole world, so leave me alone! > > Oh, and you have no idea how much grief I have > gotten > because of Joni on a Neil Young mailing list and a > couple more musical bulletin boards, making fun of > her > and ridiculing me for liking her style. But guess, > what? I'm as firm as a rock----and I'm not going to > thaw out or freeze, nor fade away, okay? > > > So, don't start wanting to blind me, Alice, with > your > hatred of religion > or of the beauty I see. > > "Pulchra sunt quae visa placent" (beautiful things > are > those that which, when seen, please) ~Thomas of > Aquinas~ > > Norma Jean > > PS If you want to talk Christ dying on the cross for > his Father, let's take it off line, because I've got > lots to express. On line, I'll leave the hissing of > Jesus' name off your ears. The Spirit talks in > spectrums. > > > + > -- Alice Brown wrote: > > > Dear JoniBuds, > > > > >Norma Jean wrote about the beautiful imagery in > > the beautiful bible that she looked at >as a kid, > > but that the picutes of jesus tortured on a cross > > where intuitively awful, even >a kid understands > > that torture is wrong. > > > > If you read the old testament, you will find > > killing and/or torture and/or threats on just > about > > every page. The bible depicts an egomaniac > > terrorist god who's "holy" goal is for everyone to > > believe and that he's really good, and that we are > > the one's who are bad and that we deserve to be > > tortured forever, but if we will just trust him, > > he'll spare us from it. How do you trust a > > tyrannical, narcissistic killer and torturerer? > But > > if you don't, you'll be tortured forever. This > > theology is true for christianity and islam. No > > wonder the whole fucking world is going nuts and > > becoming more and more narcissistic and violent. > > It's funny how most americans don't see their > > religion for what it is. They just accept that god > > is good, and hope they go to heaven. Holy shit!! > > We have got to wake up and see that these texts do > > not depict a good anything. It's mythology and a > > horrific one. And if you don't buy this shit you > > can't get elected to office in this country. Same > > in > > islamic countries. > > > > P.S. and that picture of jesus tortured to death > > on the cross, that was to satisfy his loving > > father's wrath. Yea, let's all worship him and > > build our lives around his goodness and mercy and > > then we can all go to heaven after we torture and > > kill each other. > > > > white-washed hawks pedal hate and call it love > > > > I am preaching love, I am > > > > religion has failed us (and will destroy us if we > > don't wake up!!!) > > > > Love, Alice > > > === message truncated === ~ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:05:32 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Doonesbury Creator Starts Military Blog Good stuff here: http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/ Doonesbury Creator Starts Military Blog Thursday, October 12, 2006 (10-12) 13:23 PDT NEW YORK, (AP) -- Though often bitterly critical of the war on Iraq in his comic strip "Doonesbury," creator Garry Trudeau now is offering readers a chance to get a closer, mostly unfiltered view of troops' experiences in their own words. "The Sandbox," a new addition to his Doonesbury Web site, lets viewers read the comments of service members. It's a version of a military blog  one of many that already are available on the Web. "This is GWOT-lit's forward position, offering those in-country a chance to share their experiences and reflections with the rest of us," Trudeau writes, using an acronym for the "Global War on Terror." He wrote that he hopes to let readers see "the unclassified details of deployment  the everyday, the extraordinary, the wonderful, the messed-up, the absurd." He said the postings will be "lightly edited." Recent postings came from an injured soldier who, while on leave in the states, met the crew chief who evacuated him; a sailor stationed in Afghanistan who complained that most Americans "look at this war as little more than a television event"; and a soldier on leave who was slipped a $100 bill by a passer-by (the soldier tried to give it back and wrote that she plans to donate the money to the Army Emergency Relief Fund). Many of the postings on "The Sandbox" provide a link to the service member's own blog. Other military blogs touch on a wide array of commentary from service members, some of it supportive of the war, some critical and others simply detailing military life. Many provide photos, videos or a chance to comment or communicate with the blogger. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:14:59 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni to do a new album? Alice wrote: << All this talk of a new album got me remembering the day I found out that TTT was released. I tend to have really limited contact with the media because I'm so intense and I get triggered too much. Anyway I had no idea that a new Joni album was on the horizon. I was driving in my car listening to NPR or something when on comes Sex Kills. >> Alice, you meant TI, yes? Turbulent Indigo, and not Taming The Tiger? Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:33:42 -0700 From: "Richard Goldman" Subject: San Franciscophobia by Garrison Keillor [NJC] San Franciscophobia We're stuck with a terrible war and a worse president, and all the GOP can do is scream, "Pelosi and her Nancy boys are coming"? This is pathetic. By Garrison Keillor People who live in mud huts should not throw mud, especially if it comes from their own roofs. As Scripture says, don't point to the speck in your neighbor's eye when you have a piece of kindling in your own. I see by the papers that the Republicans want to make an issue of Nancy Pelosi in the congressional races this fall: Would you want a San Francisco woman to be Speaker of the House? Will the podium be repainted in lavender stripes with a disco ball overhead? Will she be borne into the chamber by male dancers with glistening torsos and wearing pink tutus? After all, in the unique worldview of old elephants, San Francisco is a code word for g-a-y, and after assembling a record of government lies, incompetence and disaster, the party in power hopes that the fear of g-a-y-s will pull it through in November. Running against Nancy Pelosi, a woman who comes from a district where there are known gay persons, is a nice trick, but it does draw attention to the large shambling galoot who is speaker now, Tom DeLay's enabler for years, a man who, judging by his public mutterances, is about as smart as most high school wrestling coaches. For the past year, Dennis Hastert has been two heartbeats from the presidency. He is a man who seems content just to have a car and driver and three square meals a day. He has no apparent vision beyond the urge to hang onto power. He has succeeded in turning Congress into a branch of the executive branch. If Mr. Hastert becomes the poster boy for the Republican Party, this does not speak well for them as the Party of Ideas. People who want to take a swing at San Francisco should think twice. Yes, the Irish coffee at Fisherman's Wharf is overpriced, and the bus tour of Haight-Ashbury is disappointing (where are the hippies?), but the Bay Area is the cradle of the computer and software industry, which continues to create jobs for our children. The iPod was not developed by Baptists in Waco, Texas. There may be a reason for this. Creative people thrive in a climate of openness and tolerance, since some great ideas start out sounding ridiculous. Creativity is a key to economic progress. Authoritarianism is stifling. I don't believe that Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard were gay, but what's important is: In San Francisco, it doesn't matter so much. When the cultural Sturmbannfuhrers try to marshal everyone into straight lines, it has consequences for the economic future of this country. Meanwhile, the Current Occupant goes on impersonating a president. Somewhere in the quiet leafy recesses of the Bush family, somebody is thinking, "Wrong son. Should've tried the smart one." This one's eyes don't quite focus. Five years in office and he doesn't have a grip on it yet. You stand him up next to Tony Blair at a press conference and the comparison is not kind to Our Guy. Historians are starting to place him at or near the bottom of the list. And one of the basic assumptions of American culture is falling apart: the competence of Republicans. You might not have always liked Republicans, but you could count on them to manage the bank. They might be lousy tippers, act snooty, talk through their noses, wear spats and splash mud on you as they race their Pierce-Arrows through the village, but you knew they could do the math. To see them produce a ninny and then follow him loyally into the swamp for five years is disconcerting, like seeing the Rolling Stones take up lite jazz. So here we are at an uneasy point in our history, mired in a costly war and getting now here, a supine Congress granting absolute power to a president who seems to get smaller and dimmer, and the best the Republicans can offer is San Franciscophobia? This is beyond pitiful. This is violently stupid. It is painful to look at your father and realize the old man should not be allowed to manage his own money anymore. This is the discovery the country has made about the party in power. They are inept. The checkbook needs to be taken away. They will rant, they will screech, they will wave their canes at you and call you all sorts of names, but you have to do what you have to do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:38:53 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: Message from Website Gee, that didn't elicit much of a response. Maybe it was "Solid Love" strong bass line, then we got a break un be lie va ble LAHM with, apparently, nothing better to do ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:56:03 -0500 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Joni's Ex marries Luciana Souza who'll sing Joni cover Larry Klein recently married jazz singer Luciana Souza. "The Brazilian-born Souza recently married bassist Larry Klein (Joni Mitchell's former spouse) and converted to his religion, Judaism." http://www.madison.com/tct/entertainment/index.php?ntid=102042&ntpid=0 Found this at her website: "I am going into the studio later this fall to record my new album produced by my husband, Larry Klein........... our release date is April 2007.........there are a couple of original songs that I wrote with Larry Klein plus songs by Paul Simon, James Taylor, Randy Newman, and Joni Mitchell...." http://www.lucianasouza.com/reviews/index.html Short interview with Luciana Souza http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=8987 Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni On Kipling From New York Magazine 2005: Joni: "In the seventh grade, I had a teacher who declared that the curriculum was useless. So he read Rudyard Kiplings Kim to us every morning until the book was completed. That was very influential for me. My favorite line in all of literature is Rudyard Kipling's monkey: "My people are the wisest people in the jungle, my people have always said so." That's from: http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1296 Nuri Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:49:36 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Vote for your favorite Logo!! Yes, my friends, it's time to vote for your favorite Jonifest 2007 logo! Thanks to all who sent in entries, and good luck to all of you! Rules: 1) Go to: _http://jonimitchell.com/jonifest/logocontest.cfm_ (http://jonimitchell.com/jonifest/logocontest.cfm) 2) Click on the link at the bottom to vote for the logo you like best! 3) Please, only 1 vote per person!! 4) All votes must be in by midnight, November 2nd, EST. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:33:40 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Anybody in Atlanta Area? My Brother's band, The Freddy Jones Band is playing in Atlanta at the Center Stage Theatre (formerly Earthlink Live) on Friday October 27th at 9 p.m. Here is the link for anyone who might be interested in attending the show: http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0E003D2DB9C3D7CB?artistid=1009725&majorcati d=10001&minorcatid=1 Their website is: http://www.thefreddyjonesband.com/ They're pretty good if I do say so myself. Warmly, Cassy NP: Spyro Gyra - Morning Dance ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #377 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------