From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #375 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 11 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 375 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's studio, Kipling and Hejira and singing [] Re: Rachel Byrnes Manchester Lane last night ["don whiteman" ] Re: Dylan and Joni and old has beens NJC [BWORKMAN@woh.rr.com] Re: Just a thought..... [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni's studio, Kipling and Hejira and singing [Jerry Notaro ] Happy birthday, Deb! ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Dylan and Joni and old has beens NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni's Birth Chart ["Ruth Davis" ] Police Searching, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] sjc, a JMOCDed river, racing away ["Patti Parlette" ] RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon ["Sherelle Smith" ] Foley's fairies & follies [Norma Jean Garza ] Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem [Catherine Mc] Joni on computers ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem [Bob.Muller@F] Re: Hejira at 30 - 9 stories for 9 songs [Catherine McKay ] RE: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem ["Richard Fly] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:40:08 -0700 From: Subject: Joni's studio, Kipling and Hejira and singing CC wrote: "I thought I read she dismantled The Kiva and turned it into a painting studio. Anyone?" Yes, we all read her say that a few times. She gave the studio to Klein. So....maybe now she has a new better studio! New inspiration, new drive and new cool equipment ;-) Thanks to Rose for posting the Kipling poem - I was trying to recall it and was going to look it up. It is a classic. Thanks to Michael for the background of the Hejira scenery and characters. I'm in the minority as not being the most enamored with the album but these details really do enhance. As for whether or not Joni can still sing - she can! I thought she was just great in her last series of concerts and at the PWWAM taping. In fact, she struck me as better live these days than in recordings. The voice has changed but it is in no way gone. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:56:58 +1000 From: "don whiteman" Subject: Re: Rachel Byrnes Manchester Lane last night Hi All, I was down in Melbourne for work on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and flew home this morning. Did manage to catch Rachel Byrnes at Manchester Lane last night. This lady has a phenomenal voice and Joni's influence was evident in her phrasing. Backed by a band of mostly friends it was a most enjoyable 1 hour set with mainly original songs. She did justice to Dry Cleaner from Des Moine, which is not an easy song to play or sing. Cheers Don Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:11:21 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Just a thought..... ...and probably completely uninformed by what it takes to host such a thing, but if La Mitchell is hell bent on keeping the 'music industry' out of the loop in the dispersal of her next recording, could jonimithcell.com not be the 'selling' agent for it? Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 05:09:06 -0400 From: BWORKMAN@woh.rr.com Subject: Re: Dylan and Joni and old has beens NJC Delurking a moment for a comment on old has beens. I just saw New Riders of the Purple Sage at a bar near where I live. I've studied guitar with Michael Falzarano (ex Hot Tuna rhtyhm guitarist) and got a chance to talk to him and said hello to Buddy Cage and David Nelson the only two original NRPS members left. It was wonderful! They were having a good time playing, and it transferred to the audience. It may be better to burn out than to fade away, but sometimes it's fun to watch the fading in process. Brian Workman - ----- Original Message ----- From: kbhla@sbcglobal.net Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:39 pm Subject: Re: Dylan and Joni and old has beens To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com, emzdogz@yahoo.com Cc: joni@smoe.org > I tried to tell her, Bob, but she just laughed me off! Maybe it's a > generation gap that I'm clueless about! ;-) I also said you can't > compareJoni to Frampton and Bread and she laughed even more! Then > perhaps I posed > the ultimate challenge by offering her the use of my copy of the > new Joni > songbook with the real tuning stuff she could learn. She did not > accept the > offer. I guess the "what is popular, what is commercial" mindset > permeates in > ways somehow. Maybe it is because I am getting older but I really do > appreciate not only the greats but also the not so greats still > getting out > there and playing. I recall a few years back visiting the opening > of Mandalay > Bay hotel in Vegas. Dylan has just headlined the opening weekend > and the > Blues Brothers were playing the in-house House of Blues. But I > was so amazed > and happy to hear the old Grass Roots playing the little lounge > there! No one > who loves music should give it up if they still want to play. So > what if they > are not still popular or can sing and look good like the old days. > I just > think it is wonderful they are out there if they want to be. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:18:36 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a thought..... In a message dated 10/11/2006 5:15:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk writes: ...and probably completely uninformed by what it takes to host such a thing, but if La Mitchell is hell bent on keeping the 'music industry' out of the loop in the dispersal of her next recording, could jonimithcell.com not be the 'selling' agent for it? Les (London) I don't know too much about it either, but that would be somthing, now wouldn't it?!? ;0) hi Les :0) Rosie in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:23:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni's studio, Kipling and Hejira and singing I so agree with Kakki. What is great about what life (and some say God) is that it takes away and gives at the same time. Though it may take more physical effort to hit the notes and sustain them as we age, we are given the experience and wisdom to do it in more interesting ways. I am encouraged that Joni is again playing and composing on piano, and the word acoustic is being used. Jerry > CC wrote: > > "I thought I read she dismantled The Kiva and turned it into a painting > studio. Anyone?" > > Yes, we all read her say that a few times. She gave the studio to Klein. > So....maybe now she has a new better studio! New inspiration, new drive and > new cool equipment ;-) > > Thanks to Rose for posting the Kipling poem - I was trying to recall it and > was going to look it up. It is a classic. > > Thanks to Michael for the background of the Hejira scenery and characters. > I'm in the minority as not being the most enamored with the album but these > details really do enhance. > > As for whether or not Joni can still sing - she can! I thought she was just > great in her last series of concerts and at the PWWAM taping. In fact, she > struck me as better live these days than in recordings. The voice has > changed but it is in no way gone. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:37:00 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Willie Nelson again Chelsea Morning! LOL...look at the message that was in my in-box this morning! LOL....got me some Willie after all! Want some, Smurfie? Em? Heck, I'll share him with ALL of you! Everyone up on the peace train! And now Joni's on board, too. Woo hoo! Choo choo cha boogie. Full steam ahead! xo, pp October 11 , 2006 Dear Patti, I was at a concert this weekend in California to raise money for the National Veterans Foundation. I'm an Air Force veteran, and I have great respect for the military. I like to support the soldiers whenever I can. But I don't support this war in Iraq. I was against the war before it started. I always thought it was a terrible decision, badly thought out, badly planned, and then horribly executed. I want to see our troops come home right away, and so do most Americans. Unfortunately, too many politicians in both parties refuse to listen. So when will the troops come home? When we won't put up with it anymore-when we change our government. And how will we do that? By voting the bastards out! On November 7, you should vote for anyone who's against the war and vote against anyone who's for the war. It's that simple. When I wrote the song "Whatever Happened to Peace on Earth" at Christmastime in 2003, a lot of people were for the war, a lot of people didn't know the facts or the truth. But people are waking up now. They're learning that they were lied to about the war. They're feeling lied to about this Mark Foley scandal in terms of who knew what and when. They're questioning the leadership in this country. And that gives us new possibilities for November 7th. If we all go out and vote for peace candidates and get our friends to vote, and if our votes are really counted, it's no contest. There'll be a change in the Congress, and then we'll just have to keep building so we can get a president who won't send our soldiers to fight a war based on lies. We should have thrown the bastards out years ago. Let's do it now! Give Peace A Vote! Willie Nelson CODEPINK was out in force at Willie Nelson's concert, gathering signatures for our Give Peace a Vote campaign and spreading pink messages of peace. Peacemakers around the country have been flocking to concerts and movie openings and family events with clipboards in hand to encourage people in their communities to sign our Peace Vote Pledge. Just last week, a CODEPINK group collecting signatures in Pasadena convinced their Congressman Adam Schiff to change his mind about the war! We need your support to put peace at the top of the ballot this year. If you haven't signed our Give Peace A Vote Pledge, please do so now. Ask five friends to pledge, as well. Better yet, become a Peacemaker, and get 100 people to sign our pledge.That may seem like an overwhelming number, but it's only a little more than three people per day until November 7th. The first hundred Peacemakers to gather 100 Peace Vote Pledges will receive a signed copy of one of these great books. In his powerful song, Willie Nelson asks "Whatever Happened to Peace on Earth." We're working hard to bring it back. In solidarity, Andrea, Anedra, Dana, Farida, Gael, Gayle, Jodie, Laura, Liz, Medea, Nancy, Patricia, Rae, Samantha, and Sonia P.S. There's still plenty of time to sign up to host a CODEPINK house party and screen one of our must-see movies this month. If you order The Ground Truth now, you can get Iraq for Sale for free! A house party is a wonderful way to gather signatures for Give Peace a Vote and build your local CODEPINK community! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:30:50 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Happy birthday, Deb! Deb wrote: Wow, This is amazing news. I truly believed Joni would never record again; it seemed like she could neither sing, nor play, nor write anymore. But the muse endures. It's my birthday. Happy birthday to me! - ---- Yes, happy birthday to you! Celebrate, celebrate! Dance to the music! The muse endures. The gift goes on. No more silence in a bell jar. Still a song or two to be had from Our Lady! Joni Mitchell comforts me, speaking words of wisdom. Let it be! Hey, we're going to have to hold ourselves a peace talk in some neutral cafe on *JONI'S* birthday (election day) to celebrate when our two warmonger senators get ousted. Or maybe up in some sterilized room in Folly, cuz I'm headed that way for sure. Love, Patti P., totally late for work....another JRA today! NPIMH: Everything! P.S. I just called in to work to say I'd be late because of a Joni emergency. I told Mary what was going on and she said: "So you aren't coming in at all because you have to go to California to help her?" LOL....oh, California, California I'm coming home....hi Kate! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:41:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Dylan and Joni and old has beens NJC It's always a mixed bag, that's for sure - you've got your artists that have been around for a long time and never really faded, artists that disappear for a long time and suddenly show up, bands that have only a couple of original members around (if that) but are still out there plugging away, one-hit wonders that are trying to make a buck, and everything in between. I try to see as much as I can - Al Stewart was a pleasant surprise this year, didn't know what to expect. Kinda reminds me of a Harry Nilsson song, "Mr. Richland's Favorite Song" if anyone is familiar with that one. Harry & John Lennon were good pals and supposedly this was John's favorite Harry song. Bob NP: Guster, "Satellite" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:43:38 GMT From: "Ruth Davis" Subject: Joni's Birth Chart With Joni's birthday coming up soon, I went to Alabe.com and pulled up h= er birth chart. Some people say astrology is crap, but it sure sounds l= ike her to me (as reflected in her music and interviews.) I hope the at= tachment opens o.k. Joni was born in the year of the Goat under Chinese astrology. This sou= nds a lot like her, too: You were born in a Year of the Water Goat!Chinese Astrology - Exploring = the Eastern Zodiac, by Shelly Wu The Goats are the artists in temperament and in character. These changea= ble free spirits, love social gatherings, stimulating conversation, and = interesting people. "Propriety" and a beautiful environment are importan= t to their souls. Gentle in spirit, Goats desire a peaceful spot to exis= t undisturbed and un-obligated. Creative, sensitive and kind, those soul= s born into Goat years are warmhearted, disorganized, and extremely vuln= erable. They are capricious, work when least expected to, and are never = reached by being pressured or by a heavy hand. This 8th position in the = zodiac is intelligent, sometimes insecure, and generous to a fault. This= good Samaritan has a soft heart towards those less fortunate whether a = homeless puppy or a needy friend, and needs a strong partner able to tak= e the reins and handle their usually fortunate finances. Goats gather st= rength during their own early afternoon hours, between 1:00pm - 3:00pm. The nature of the Water element is that of feelings and emotions. Reflec= tion, sensitivity, and powers of persuasiveness characterize those born = under the Water element. Water descends, seeks out, and fills low places= ; especially the hearts of the brokenhearted and needy. Those souls born= under the element of Water are dominated by their feelings and need to = communicate. The Water element endows one with a quick mind and lucidity= . Water is chaotic at times and does not have its own form, but takes on= the shape and character of the vessel. Water element persons advance th= eir own ideas by influencing the vote of others. Those born under the in= fluence of the Water element are empathetic with others, possessing a ca= lm and sedate nature. The Water element has a gift for seeing things obj= ectively and those influenced by it, are much sought after for their cou= ncil. The Water element relates to the way others feel, Using intuition = to keep a finger on the pulse of the world. Water element souls have a w= ell developed ability for communicating with people and thrive in public= relations or social work. Water's physical organs are the kidneys and b= ladder; it's flavor is salty. Water's color is blue and corresponds to t= he season of Winter and cold. Ruth = [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/msword] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:18:55 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Police Searching, njc This is what I am going to call a: patti melt and I loved every minute of it. : -) NEWS BULLETIN Police Searching for Madwoman in Mansfield Mansfield, CT (Combined Wire Services) Local and state police were called to a home in Mansfield at approximately 9:30 p.m. Tuesday evening after neighbors complained of loud, "caterwauling" music emanating from a ranch house on a hill on Briarcliff Road. When police arrived at the home, they found no one there. They entered the home and immediately turned off the offending stereo system, noting that every CD in the system was by a musician named Joni Mitchell. The computer was still on, and the screen read: JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 10 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 373 Very strange case. A subsequent call to police from a woman in nearby Columbia reported that one Patricia Parlette of Briarcliff Road had phoned her 15 minutes earlier, *screaming* into the phone: "JONI NEWS! OMG! OMG! Oh sweet Lord almighty Joni blah blah blah blah new album blah blah possible tour blah blah hysterical laugher and crying blah blah blah it was on the latest digest can you f#$%ing believe that Joni is FINALLY speaking out blah blah the world has gone mad just like i said today on the jmdl blah blah i gotta go call Mary she'll understand she went to the tribute with me blah blah blah." The caller told police she was concerned for Ms. Parlette's safety and well-being, as she has been known to go off her Joni nut at times, but never like this. Well, not since she broke the caller's arm when Joni appeared on stage on the Oakdale theater in May 2000. She shared that Ms. Parlette had recently been despondent over the state of the world and had been volunteering at the Jed Dumont for Senate campaign headquarters, wanting to change the world, rearrange the world. Volunteers at the headquarters confirmed that Ms. Parlette had worked the phone banks for 3 hours this evening, polling Democratic and unaffiliated voters. One volunteer overheard her saying to a prospective voter: "What do you mean, you're supporting Creeperman? F#$% that stranger! He's a defector from the petty wars. "Sour grapes, cause I lost my heart, that's all he is." Do you think JONI would support Creeperman?" Shortly after 9 p.m., neighbors stated that the suspect was out in the street in her nightgown, drinking Rhein wine and smashing empty glasses down, toasting to apparently nothing. She was ringing doorbells that came ringing up like Christmas bells and rapping up like pipes and drums, and her legs were all bruised from banging into things. She kept saying: "Joni speaks! Oh, speak again, bright angel!" Police found a trail of Joni Mitchell CD's in the driveway. One of her sons, Michael, who recently moved out of the family home after his circle game was completed, arrived at the scene. He confirmed that his mother had become increasingly strange over the past few years. She had been replacing many of the family home's decorations with "Joni stuff". Michael said: "Last year I came home to visit Mom and she had a framed picture of Joni with 'some random person with a ruby in his ear' in our kitchen! Totally weird." Her oldest son, Chris, now living in Chicago ("won't you please come Chicago,no one else can take your place!"), was equally concerned. "Michael and I discussed doing something with Mom -- you know, putting her in some kind of home for aging children -- but she seemed happy and content with her gorgeous new wings, and peaceful, with her good dogs and some trees, so we didn't count on nothin'...we just let it slide. She was feeling real good, springing from boulders like the mama lion we know she is, and our friends all told us that she was looking fine. Now I realize we should have done something more. After visiting,,we often just left her on her small white bed, where she fell into her Joni dreams." Chris and Michael, while concerned about their mother's whereabouts, both opined that their mother was not a threat to others or to herself, and that she should definitely NOT be charged with breach of purpose. "That would be a total travesty. Our mother is Another Mother for Peace. She is a registered "peacemaker" with Code Pink. She probably just went off to take a walk A park A bridge A tree A river She might just be laying on the formerly hissing summer lawn (end of summer now, no more shiny hot nights), gazing up at the matella moon, wondering about the judgement of the moon and stars. Police, still concerned about the well-being of this apparently loving and kind, but obviously unbalanced "both sides now" woman of heart and mind, will launch a complete investigation. They have seized her computer and plan to contact certain individuals on the "jmdl" (a possible terrorist, lunatic-fringe organization), especially focusing on characters such as: smurfadelica, treegreen1, cassysweet, anima-rising, djb@binkley (who the suspect's brother suspects of being some kind of weird "internet predator" who met his sister in Houston in some barangrill in May 2006), nyro_in_detroit, an oddmund person, scjoniguy, and you know there may be more. (Such as some queen lucy in the UK, who may have spoken with the suspect about root vegetable recipes last year, and some nuri guy in israel.) The Department of Homeland Security has also been called onto the case, since the suspect's ties with the Jed Dupont campaign have raised suspicions that she is a terrorist sympathizer. (However, every one who knows the suspect says "BOLLOCKS!" to that theory.) If anyone has information on the whereabouts on this person, please contact your local Sunset Pig. Totally daft ce soir, Your ever-Joni-loving Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:43:50 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: sjc, a JMOCDed river, racing away Sweet synchronicity. Sweet inspiriation. Just what I needed today....maybe some of you need it, too? There's an article in today's Daily Campus titled "How to Stop a Racing Mind". Here's a snippet. I like the river talk. (TIC! I wish I had a river. A park A bridge A tree A river) "How should one get out of a river of ones own thoughts? The way to silence the mind is to grab hold of a strong rock - the present moment. (TIC! There's a man and a woman sitting on a rock.) (ZAPPA TIC: Help, I'm a rock.) This is done by focusing the mind on the breath. The river races past, pulling you along with it. The mind returns to the breath. And as you get pulled downstream, be mindful of your surroundings, anchoring yourself (TIC! Crown and anchor me...or let me sail aaawwwwaaayyyyy!) to the breath and the realization of the present moment, until it is easy to climb out onto the bank. (TIC! It gets easier and easier to do.) It will be possible to slow thoughts down (TIC! Down to you.) considerably after some practice, and at that point deep (TIC! Mama taught me the deeeeeper meaning.) relaxation will be achieved (TIC! ...struggle for higher achievements...). It will become easier and easier (TIC! Just like Jericho....) to allow the thoughts to pass unhindered, to simply step back and observe them. And then, after practicing for some time with dedication, it will be possible to stop the mind entirely, and simply be. (TIC! How do you stop?) Then as one sits on the shore, the river becomes a tranquil lake." (TIC! And then we can get a boat and we can row it.) Si cela vous interesse, you can see the whole thing here: http://media.www.dailycampus.com/media/storage/paper340/news/2006/10/11/Commentary/How-To.Stop.A.Racing.Mind-2343933.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dailycampus.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com If you do go that link, and have time on your hands, there is a good op-ed piece called "UConn Could be a Lamont Powerhouse" (click on "Commentary" on the left), w/ a comment at the end by yours truly. Oh babies. I'm on writing roll (with a madwoman's soul!) today. Love and peace, Patti P., rolling down a river ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:50:46 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem This is going to be a bit of a ramble but here goes, and Please Rose do not take this as any comment on you or your choice of poem, but I find I have to react to seeing this poem here. IF........ everytime I see this poem I groan......and want to gnash my teeth. IF, for me, underlines every stereotypical "masculine" trait that was enforced upon young men throughout the 1800's.. and continued to be WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF MEN" for decades after... Go and do all of this and,IF you can, you will BE A MAN.... what about IF YOU CAN'T.......???? What about those that had no choice? I had to examine texts about "Britishness" as part of my degree and IF came to mean to me an example of what the world was about in the late 1800's. It should be known, in case you don't already that it was written for a reason....... > Kipling wrote "IF" with Dr Leander Starr Jameson in mind. In 1895, > Jameson led about 500 of his countrymen in a failed raid against the > Boers, in southern Africa. What became known as the Jameson Raid was > later cited as a major factor in bringing about the Boer War of 1899 > to 1902. But the story as recounted in Britain was quite different. > The British defeat was interpreted as a victory and Jameson portrayed > as a daring hero Kipling, born in India, spent years in various English parts of the British Empire...(he wrote Gunga Din, and Mandalay......and in KIM says "he could lie like and oriental"...) and has been regarded as the epitome of the colonial child, seeing colonialism as the only way that "natives" could survive. He wrote many tales about the EMPIRE.....that great and bloody time of our little island's history. Heaven forfend that we should ever think of it as a civilising episode, or as anything other than the greedy race it was to plunder the world and make a profit. America was colonised from within, the Brits had nowhere to go except a long way away.....and goodness me we made it happen.... British/South African/Australian/ male public schools, trotted "IF" out as "THE STUFF YOU NEED TO BE MADE OF AS A WHITE BRITISH/BRITISH EMPIRE MALE"... Sadly it has seeped into other equally chauvinistic Englsih Speaking societies as the code to follow for personal good standing. It has been re-printed in more poetry anthologies than any other poem and I find its' sentiments truly ghastly.......... it is a child of its time, and as such I believe its message should remain there... Nowhere does it speak of compassion, of open heartedness towards the many creeds and colours of this world, nowhere does it beg for peace and understanding, nowhere does it urge you to be aware of your mark on this planet and what goes around comes around. It can easily be argued that those were not the sentiments of the time... and my response to that is "EXACTLY...." that is why it is a poem (in my opinion) that needs obliteration...or never to be quoted out of context. Sadly many of the men who were brought up with this as their daily mantra, in the closeted and brutal world of the Public Schools of England served in the First world war.. Rupert Brooke and Siegfriend Sassoon for two and many others who were sensitive to the horrors of war and its youth swallowing appetite... and died as a result of the trench warfare, or who were driven mad by the sights they saw and the things they could do nothing about. > Kipling's own son died in the Battle of Loos..after which he wrote "If > any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied". It is > speculated that these words may reveal Kipling's feelings of guilt at > his role in getting John a commission in the Irish Guards, despite his > initially having been rejected by the army because of his appalling > eyesight ....... so maybe IF should not be seen as anything other than his early call for men to be men......... In latter years Kipling was involved in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and it was he who garnered the phrase "their name liveth forever more" on the larger memorials at Thiepval and elsewhere. I feel IF belongs in the past. not for nowadays. ON our holidays, morotbiking around Europe this year, Frank and I rode back through the Verdun in France. It is heartbreakingly beautiful countryside, with rolling hills and wide open shallow valleys and bluffs of rocks here and there., It is sublime motorbiking country with lovely sweeping roads with almost no traffic. Easy cruising country with the smell of rich earth and broadleaf forests. It was the site of some of the most horrendous slaughter mankind has ever encountered. In some fields are large holes that have been allowed to grow lush with trees and bushes, but at each one there is a large wooden cross. Every 5 miles or so, you will pass a huge cemetary with thousands on thousands of graves of the (mainly) men who gave up their lives for a short lived freedom. French, British and Canadian World war one cemeteries.. every cross a person, every person, someone's son.....many crosses bear the words "Inconnu, Morte pour La France"... Unknown, died for France..... There was no case of IF, for them, it was all "you will".. Flowers of the field, cut down, blown apart, scattered on the winds... I do not hold Kipling personally responsible for all these deaths, but we must not use his words in today's world, where there is freedom of choice, the ability to consciensciously object without fear of social exile, and above all to hold your life precious, and not spill its potential for wars that will solve nothing and end nothing... but lead to more war and more death. Anyway, I have rambled....peace to you all.. Lucy >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:25:45 EDT >From: >Subject: 'if' by rudyard kipling > >'if' by rudyard kipling >If you can keep your head when all about you >Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, >If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, >But make allowance for their doubting too; >If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, >Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, >Or being hated, don't give way to hating, >And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: >If you can dream - and not make dreams your master, >If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim; >If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster >And treat those two impostors just the same; >If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, >And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: >If you can make one heap of all your winnings >And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, >And lose, and start again at your beginnings >And never breath a word about your loss; >If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew >To serve your turn long after they are gone, >And so hold on when there is nothing in you >Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" >If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, >Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch, >If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, >If all men count with you, but none too much; >If you can fill the unforgiving minute >With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, >Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, >And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! >Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:10:38 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Hejira at 30 - 9 stories for 9 songs Michael wrote: "The Citizen also had another article by Doug Fischer on October 8th called Hejira -The 9 Stories Behind the 9 Songs." I was fascinated to read Michael's mail and the article and staggered that it's 30 years! Also, I have written several times about my love of the synchronicity surrounding Joni, me and many of the listers who have their own Joni/synchronicity stories. This is just another little one I wanted to share with you. On Sunday (October 8th the day of the article) I was privileged to be playing a few numbers with Amy Wadge who agreed to do a house gig here in Conker Cabin (my work space at the end of my garden.). She closed the show with a new song of hers called 'These are the songs (which saved my life)' which has a line about Amy playing 'Joni till my fingers bled'. Amy kindly asked me to join her on it and I played a bit of slide guitar on it and I have to say I was crap..however, that's not the point of the story! One of the arrangements I had made prior to the house gig was with Peter Carney who owns Joni's sunburst guitar from those heady times when Joni played songs from Hejira. Peter came to see Amy play and I asked him to bring the sunburst with him so I could have a look and maybe a little play! I hadn't ever seen the guitar he flew to LA to pick up from Fred Walecki. For those who may not know, my partner and I are the very lucky owners of Joni's blonde guitar from that era and so there they were - both guitars lined up IN MY HOUSE. It was BRILLIANT and then, of course, I played Amelia on the sunburst and later played Coyote and Hejira on the blonde. I hadn't realised it being 30 years since Hejira was released (it seems like yesterday) and I just read the day I was playing those tunes that article came out. I suppose it's not the most fantastic synchronicity and I do feel a bit of a sad anorak that this event has thrilled me so much - but it did. I hope you JMDLers don't mind indulging another one of this sad old woman's tales. I am still song writing so maybe a bit of the muse contained in the spirit of the guitars rubs off! Mind you, if our Joan is on for a new album, do you think she might want them back? After all, I reckon it's still the best guitar sound she had on an album! Love as always Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:57:04 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: njc, In loving memory of John Lennon Hi Kate! This sounds like it was a fantastic and heartfelt event! That is one of my favorite John Lennon Songs along with "We All Shine On". Sounds like it was a lot of good energy being passed around for sure!!! I'm so happy you had a musical event like this! Wonderful!!!!! Keep on singing and playing my friend! Love, Sherelle Kate wrote: We had the most wonderful tribute to john tonight on his birthday... he would have been 66... 28 or so perfomers crunched onstage to sing the finale, 'give peace a chance'... everyone in the audience (200 or so) was singing too & we just couldn't stop... chanting over & over... people held up their little table candles & cell phones :~}... it felt for a moment that maybe in some small way we sent out some good peaceful energy like a ripple sent out into the cosmos... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:00:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Hejira at 30 - 9 stories for 9 songs Far from it - keep 'em coming and if anyone tells you other wise they'll have to tangle with me. Just thinking about you playing and singing brings joy to my day. As for the guitars she's currently using, I'd love to know. It sounds like she's aiming for a different sound than what she had on TTT, maybe she'll put that Parker down and play something a bit warmer. Like Paz says, though, I don't care if she's playing a comb w/wax paper...bring it on, Joni! Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "World Before Columbus" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:08:35 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: New Joni album on the horizon? I can't even begin to tell you how happy I am to hear this news!!! I had a chance to read the interview she did for the citizen and all I could say was "Right on Joni!" I remember in the early nineties when we all used to pine away for Joni to tour again...and then it miraculously happened!!! I never got a chance to see her live but it didn't matter! My Joni friends on this forum did and I felt like I was there with them!!! It made me believe that dreams did come true and now this! I absolutely cannot wait for this new project to be released!!!! Thank you Joni for letting the music flow again!!!!! Love, Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:17:00 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling Dear Rose, Thank you so much for sharing this poem in its entirety! My! It pulled my heart of my chest for a minute there! I can't wait to hear how Joni puts this together! I am on cloud 9 right now!!! Joni nirvanna!!!! Love, Sherelle Rose wrote: 'if' by rudyard kipling If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream - and not make dreams your master, If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Norma Jean Garza Subject: Foley's fairies & follies There's an editorial on the newspaper along these lines, asking where Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Jim Hagee, and all those right wing conservative snake bite evangelists are, screaming to the mike, "Foley's a fucking faggot!"? Why have these tax-free men, God's hired hands, who raise their bibles in the air, kept quiet, all of a sudden? When certain members of church and state hold hands, it's okay not to know how to act like a real man. Fuck it, let them go dancing with the drag queens, out in public, once in a while, is what I feel! Norma Jean PS Later, I'll tell one of my Joni synchonicity stories....and it ain't no fairy tale....it was as real as the wind coming in from the tip of Africa, in Algeciras. ~ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:23:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem - --- Lucy Hone wrote: > This is going to be a bit of a ramble but here goes, > and Please Rose do > not take this as any comment on you or your choice > of poem, but I find I > have to react to seeing this poem here. > > IF........ everytime I see this poem I > groan......and want to gnash my > teeth. > > IF, for me, underlines every stereotypical > "masculine" trait that was > enforced upon young men throughout the 1800's.. and > continued to be WHAT > WAS EXPECTED OF MEN" for decades after... > Thanks, Lulu. It has the same effect on me but I didn't want to sound like I was being hard on Rosie either. The poem has always pissed me off and I'm not a Kipling fan. It's too much "the Empiah" for me. And smarmy at the same time, sort of like Celine smacking herself on the breast when she emotes "My heart will go on". Gag me! I think you've expressed it better than I could have, so I'm glad I kept my mouth shut and my fingers off the keyboard. (Do you like Kipling? I don't know - I've never Kippled.) I wish Joan had chosen something else. Maybe it's meant to be ironic? she said hopefully. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:24:55 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni on computers From the REAL interview (merci infiniment, Les!): "She cheerfully concedes she doesn't own a cellphone, a computer or use e-mail. "I don't believe in them. I just don't want 'em. Computers are eating the earth. They are frying people's brains. They are mental illness personified, and if you really want to know, I think they are part of the manifestation of human insanity." Reminded she might need the Internet to sell her new album, Ms. Mitchell allowed that computers have "their good side," but insisted they are "just not healthy" overall." Gulp. Uh oh! Joni Mitchell never lies, right? Talk about a headful of quandary. What to do? What to do? Well, it was nice knowing you all. Thanks for all the fun. Adios, Joniamigos! Love, Patti P., a.k.a the Madwoman of Mansfield (still eluding capture) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:33:27 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem Like 'Ozymandias'...or maybe "There once was a man from Nantucket." Come of think of it, Joni doesn't need anyone to do her writing for her - she seems to always rise above her source material anyway. Bob NP: The Zookeepers, "Beautiful World" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:27:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hejira at 30 - 9 stories for 9 songs - --- Anita Tedder wrote: > I suppose it's not the most fantastic synchronicity > and I do feel a bit > of a sad anorak that this event has thrilled me so > much - but it did. I > hope you JMDLers don't mind indulging another one of > this sad old > woman's tales. I am still song writing so maybe a > bit of the muse > contained in the spirit of the guitars rubs off! > Mind you, if our Joan > is on for a new album, do you think she might want > them back? After all, > I reckon it's still the best guitar sound she had on > an album! I'd be thrilled too. How many people can say they've got Joni's guitar? I was watching the "Refuge of the Roads" DVD the other night, saw that guitar (or one very like it) and wondered if it was the same one (or just one that was, um, very like it). (I was also admiring Joni's clothes. I love the loose black jumper she's wearing in some songs.) If she wants the guitar back, maybe you could deliver it to her personally? Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:30:19 EDT From: BlueForTheRoses@aol.com Subject: NJC HAPPY NCOD Hey everyone, just wanted to wish all my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters on the list, as well as everyone else, a HAPPY NATIONAL COMING OUT DAY!!! Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > > Like 'Ozymandias'...or maybe "There once was a man > from Nantucket." > > Come of think of it, Joni doesn't need anyone to do > her writing for her - > she seems to always rise above her source material > anyway. > > Bob > "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair." Um yeah. Her own words would suit me just fine. Man from Nantucket on paper/comb kazoo or toilet flange. that's good too. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:42:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem <"Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair."> And since it's OZYmandias, maybe she could get Ozzy to do backing vocals, like that WONDERFUL song she does with Billy Freakin' Idol. Or not. Bob NP: Paul Simon, "Late In The Evening" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:42:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: NJC HAPPY NCOD Thanks, Rick. I actually celebrated for doing a program on Sexual Orientation for a Sex and Health class in our College of Public Health. The students are always curious and respectful, an exciting combination. And to celebrate myself, I'm off to see Kathy Griffin tomorrow night! Jerry BlueForTheRoses@aol.com wrote: > Hey everyone, just wanted to wish all my gay and lesbian brothers and > sisters on the list, as well as everyone else, a HAPPY NATIONAL COMING OUT > DAY!!! > Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:56:05 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem I won't defend "If", or the jingoistic side of Kipling, but I will defend some of Kipling's wonderful fiction, especially _The Jungle Books_ and _The Just So Stories_. I don't think even Joni can save that horrible poem, but at least she won't be rewriting Yeats or Blake. "Slouching" is bad enough but especially, but I wonder what misguided hand or eye dare say "Nice, kitty kitty" to Blake's Tyger. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:24 PM To: Lucy Hone; Joni List; RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: 'if' by rudyard kipling NJC Personal slant on this poem - --- Lucy Hone wrote: > This is going to be a bit of a ramble but here goes, > and Please Rose do > not take this as any comment on you or your choice > of poem, but I find I > have to react to seeing this poem here. > > IF........ everytime I see this poem I > groan......and want to gnash my > teeth. > > IF, for me, underlines every stereotypical > "masculine" trait that was > enforced upon young men throughout the 1800's.. and > continued to be WHAT > WAS EXPECTED OF MEN" for decades after... > Thanks, Lulu. It has the same effect on me but I didn't want to sound like I was being hard on Rosie either. The poem has always pissed me off and I'm not a Kipling fan. It's too much "the Empiah" for me. And smarmy at the same time, sort of like Celine smacking herself on the breast when she emotes "My heart will go on". Gag me! I think you've expressed it better than I could have, so I'm glad I kept my mouth shut and my fingers off the keyboard. (Do you like Kipling? I don't know - I've never Kippled.) I wish Joan had chosen something else. Maybe it's meant to be ironic? she said hopefully. Catherine Toronto - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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