From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #348 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 22 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 348 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: poverty njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE : Re: BSN [Joseph Palis ] Re: NJC Joseph's gig now outsider music [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: poverty njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: poverty njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: poverty njc ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] politics on the list, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc [Brenda ] Re: Contempt and disdain NJC [Brenda ] Re: poverty njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: poverty njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: BSN [Brenda ] Re: Both sides now hatbox [Brenda ] hall and oates njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: poverty njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: poverty njc ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] RE: Contempt and disdain NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Contempt and disdain NJC ["Lori Fye" ] (njc) Chicago Jazz Composers Collective concert [frednow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:36:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: poverty njc She's an elementary teacher, right? A major difference between primary and secondary teacher qualifications and demands. In order to retain her National Board Certification, my wife has to take a certain number of training days each summer - believe me, she doesn't get any 16 weeks off. There are only 8 weeks between the end of the school year and the beginning of the new one. And keep in mind that many cities now have year-round school. Add to that the hours at night that she spends grading papers, preparing tests, lesson plans, parent conferences, staff meetings, etc. and it's not the cupcake job you're making it out to be. I agree that the problems facing public schools are many, and that merely throwing money at it won't solve all of them. Bob NP: Pink Floyd, "Have A Cigar" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:33:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: BSN Smurf a icrit : Boy, she really could hit those icy altitudes when younger. I remember my mother complaining about "that screeching" when I played young Joni in my bedroom back when Jesus was a boy. I have been playing late-period Joni lately preferring them to her early days, but two nights ago when I accidentally put a CD that contained Joni's "See You Sometime", I was brought back to the moment when I used to listen to her early stuff. And yes it was a beautiful moment when I let her sing "Where are you now/ Are You in some hotel / Does it have a view?" and hearing it played outside of the sequence of the FTR album, I realized that I have not really 'heard' the song before in a way I am hearing it now apart from the songs before it and after it. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Darondo "Listen to My Song" - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:56:48 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Joseph's gig now outsider music And everything is on CD as well - you can order it from Corwood. I bought "Ready For The House", his first LP on CD. Wish I had the LP version, it fetches a pretty penny on ebay! Bob NP: Badmarsh & Shri, "Into The Sunset" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:01:11 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: poverty njc In a message dated 9/21/2006 2:29:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: Taking your logic that the root of the problem in public schools is low teachers salaries....then why ..let's say...forty years ago..when salaries were low for teachers...why then..were public schools so much better... and kids actually learned?! Hi Bree, My mother was a school teacher back then. I can't be sure what my mother would say, but my guess would be that the concept of grade school teacher has changed. Many if not most of the teachers were wives who were not dependent on their pay checks. It was like a second vocation next to being a mother. The concept of "career" has changed in more than one way. Today salary is much more of an issue. Also, my mother was on the edge of the change in disciplinary practices and the resulting unruly nature of students that produced. Teachers today have to do more class room maintenance and as a result can do less teaching and burn out faster. More pay would be an incentive for them to stay. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:02:34 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: poverty njc In a message dated 9/21/2006 2:29:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result. I thought it was, "doing the same thing and expecting different results." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:16:56 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: RE: poverty njc Original Message: - ----------------- From: Bree Mcdonough bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:28:19 -0400 To: LCStanley7@aol.com, joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: poverty njc >PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again >and getting the same result. Not 'getting the same result', it's 'expecting a different result'. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:30:35 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: politics on the list, njc Hi everyone, I enjoy very much reading everyones' posts about politics on the list. I just don't like it when people are at all mean about it. After all, behind the "politics" are the circumstances that affect our every day living.. . . these issues affect our lives and other's lives. . our very beings, our very planet. . how can we NOT talk about it? I, for one, do NOt prefer to go to another list to talk about things. . I am very happy with this list, yeah. . it has been bugging me lately. . sure. but I think (as has been said) . . it is so very easy to delete. . delete as easy as pie thank you for all your patience. I love this list. Marianne np: heart is breaking. . . _________________________________________________________________ Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:39:23 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc If you prefer used CD's, you may want to try LaLa. It's fairly deep and less expensive. And like used record stores, completely legal. http://www.lala.com/ B n.p.: Phoenix - "Consolation Prizes" Joseph Palis wrote: > Thanks for the further thumbs up (way way up as Siskel/Ebert/Roper say) for M. Ward. I will definitely get "Post War" and his earlier stuff. The great thing about buying these CDs is that almost always they turn up in used record stores for 8.00 or 9.00 dollars and for some bizarre reason I prefer used copies than brand new ones. I don't know why but I think its partly because I foolishly think that when I buy used copies I am saving money, so I buy several used copies not knowing it was tantamount to buying Wagner's Ring Cycle (or at least Gotterdammerung). > > Maybe when you pass through the Triangle next time, drop me a line so we can catch one show in Cat's Cradle or Local 506. > > Joseph in Chapel Hill > (wondering why he is unusually chatty in the List today) > np: Gloria Lynne "All Night Long" > > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com a icrit : > Man, Joseph, I am so jealous of you having access to the Cat's Cradle. Everyone I want to see passes through there. I did frequent it a couple of times when I lived in the area. If you don't already have M.Ward's "Post-War", go get it today. Or not. > > Bob > > NP: Prince, "The Dance" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail riinvente le mail ! Dicouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface rivolutionnaire. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:58:57 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered... goosebumps - njc Joseph Palis wrote: > Midwayt through his performance I had major goose bumps and saw my friends fold their arms and slowly rub each side of the arm as though brushing away their own goose bumps. Something only Marcel Marceau and Rickie Lee Jones which I witnessed in the past, can bring to a performance. > Goosebumps are hard to come by. I must say that the only experiences I've had with them in the last couple of years have been Susana Baca and Sonya Kitchell. I'm a bit biased with Sonya because she's a friend but even though I've heard her sing many times in all kinds of environments, there is always a moment where she gets me. And truly she has really only just begun. B n.p.: Phoenix - "Long Distance Call" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:56:37 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC Bob wrote: > Am I the only one who is ready to ditch the list > to avoid this crap? > > --Smurf, one foot out the door since 1953 Nope ;o)... I stay out of political discussions on this list (a) because I'm here for the music (and the occasional diversion into other areas), (b) most of the discussion centres around US politics, and while I'm not politically naive, ignorant or uninterested in world politics, I am far more directly affected by happenings on the New Zealand political scene, and (c) as has been previously mentioned, I have never once (in my 5+ years on this list) seen anyone change their political views as a result of these discussions, and I don't see that changing any time soon. I have however, seen things deteriorate into personal attacks and insults, and I definitely don't enjoy reading those exchanges. I'm not advocating a boycott on political discussions by any means - the whole point of the NJC tag is to allow non-Joni-related discussions to take place. But I'd be lying if I said I don't tire VERY quickly of posts of a political nature. My delete key gets quite a workout, and poor our little 56K modem (the only internet connection available where we live) is very busy. So rather than just complaining, let me suggest a Joni-related subject for discussion: Joni isn't writing music any more, but she is more involved in her painting. So what is your favourite Joni art work? I have two I particularly like: the cover art for Turbulent Indigo (Joni as Vincent Van Gogh) and "40 below", an painting of sunrise (or sunset?) over a snow-laden road, presumably from the prairies in Canada. Who's next? Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul In MD Subject: Re: BSN I like BSN and I love Travelogue. I've enjoyed Joni's voice all through the years but was concerned on Turbulent Indigo and Taming The Tiger as her voice became lower and lower. At times she was struggling to hit the right notes with varying results. If you listen to Sex Kills and Last Chance Lost, it's as if Joni wrote the former in the key of her new lower voice and the latter for her older higher voice. SK sounds fine but I find it uncomfortable when she strains to reach the high notes on LCL. But with BSN and especially Travelogue, her voice had finally settled into the lower register. The orchestra and new interpretations compliment and probably hide any vocal imperfections that may have been apparent if she'd been front and center with a smaller ensemble. In general, I think Joni's done a fine job of matching her music to her current voice -- unlike some artists but that's a whole other thread. It helps that I really like the Mendoza sound -- I hear lush, not overblown. BSN is actually one of my least favorite Joni songs. I think most people who cover it have it all wrong. I find it a bittersweet, somewhat melancholy song written by an old soul. Joni's voice on Clouds seemed too young and fresh. I loved her reinterpretation on BSN the album. The definitive version, for me, is Mabel Mercer's which appeared on Joni Covers 4. As Mabel rasps and scrapes through the song, spilling out her soul in the process, you know she has seen both sides -- and more. Difficult to listen to but, IMHO, perfect delivery for the song. I'm glad we're discussing Joni's later period. I can't wait to hear what Em thinks of Chalk Mark after a proper listen. Paul In MD - -- looking forward to when Joni releases "Not Even On The Radar Screen", completing the trilogy started with "Hits" and "Misses", and reinterprets "Dancing Clown" kate wrote: > > think of the Both Sides Album?> I love it. I keep about a dozen of Joni's CDs on my desk as I work at my computer, and have the rest with my CD-player downstairs, but BSN remains on my desk and more often than not it is the one I play. I can't help singing along ... l have never been a big fan of orchestral music, but I love these songs, the way Joni sings them, and when I lay down and close my eyes and listen to the songs turned up loud ... WOW. I am blown away by what I suppose are called the arrangements. She's done a beautiful job here and I find her voice warm and human, as opposed to her more youthful voice, which was beautiful but certainly never warm. Kate http://xoetc.antville.org my journal page - --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:25:40 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC Kate Bennett wrote: > Of course not. Each post is someone's individual opinion & some here are > more respectful than others when expressing themselves. I agree with you > that civility is important to maintain when discussing issues but some > people find that easier than others do. Just like spelling & grammar :~} > The one thing that both have in common is that when they are lacking it can be an impediment to the actual exchange part of a discussion. Long paragraphs without breaks, all caps, etc. can send the same unwelcoming message as the cold shoulder of contempt. This morning when I reflected back on my emails with Laura last night, I had to laugh to myself about her mention of Oprah and some potential Oprah discussion list. (And about her unknowingly posting that link that went to a place she didn't expect. Laura thanks for the laugh on that one.) Please don't think I'm a shrinking violet who can't take the heat. Compared to other groups I have and do belong to this kitchen doesn't rise too much above room temperature. However, I do wonder why the treatment of and attitude towards others can become so different when the topic is politics and not Joni's music. Yes, these are serious issues, matters of life and death. But I struggle with seeing the gain in lobbing a diss. Moving on... B n.p.: Jessi Colter - "The Captive" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:40:38 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: poverty njc You loveable knit-picker you...you could be right? "A mind is terrible thing to have..in losing one's mind.... Bree >From: LCStanley7@aol.com >Reply-To: LCStanley7@aol.com >To: bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: poverty njc >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:02:34 EDT > >In a message dated 9/21/2006 2:29:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, >bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > >PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over >again >and getting the same result. > > > > > >I thought it was, "doing the same thing and expecting different results." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:44:54 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: poverty njc Knit-picker number two..thank you. I got it! But seriously...thanks. Bree : > >PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again > >and getting the same result. > >Not 'getting the same result', it's 'expecting a different result'. > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:41:55 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: BSN Paul In MD wrote: > BSN is actually one of my least favorite Joni songs. I think most people who cover it have it all wrong. I find it a bittersweet, somewhat melancholy song written by an old soul. Joni's voice on Clouds seemed too young and fresh. I loved her reinterpretation on BSN the album. I agree on all counts. It's one of my least favorite songs as well and I've actually sometimes felt that there was something slightly demented about how emotionally "up" some voices sound when singing it. On BSN however, I'd rather listen to her version of that than the standards, which I suppose connects directly to why I prefer Travelogue over BSN. I find most of Joni's earlier recordings hard to listen to and rarely do listen to much before "Blue" because of her voice. I truly appreciate where she had arrived vocally with "Travelogue" and for me it marks a fitting bookend to her career. B n.p.: Lloyd Cole & Jill Sobule - "For The Good Times" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:46:29 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Both sides now hatbox Victor Johnson wrote: > I actually love this album. I remember being sort of on the fence > before seeing her live in 2000 but after seeing her perform these > songs I was really able to connect with them. I guess its just the > jazz cat in me...I love the standards when they're done well. I > agree the hatbox was ill advised. While it didn't work out practically, I do like the fact that they tried to do a unique special package and I don't think it was just pimpin'. Those kinds of things are generally much more hassle than they are worth for the companies that do them, particularly with someone like Joni whose sales apex was long ago. B n.p.: Marshall Chapman - "Jesus Was A Capricorn" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:49:34 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: hall and oates njc Thanks Bob, for the headsup. mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:38:15 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: poverty njc In a message dated 9/21/2006 5:41:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: You loveable knit-picker you...you could be right? If you had lice, I'd pick out the knits for you. I could be right, but sometimes I'm more left. Such is the life of this moderate who loves you. "A mind is terrible thing to have..in losing one's mind.... Are you trying to quote Dan Quayle? Danny Partridge might be a better rooster. I like this one: I want to be Robin to Bush's Batman. - -- Vice President Dan Quayle Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 00:12:19 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: RE: poverty njc Nah, look at the times of Laura's and my posts (mine are always delayed fo some reason), I beat her by a good 45 minutes. I'M nit-picker #1. ;) And, as much as I like to give a good 'whack' to anyone left of socialist at any given moment, I, too, shall refrain from any political posts, as it is usually my wont to create more heat than light, and that's not what I joined this list for. So, my favorite album art is Clouds, since it's the first Joni record that I got when I was 14. JR Original Message: - ----------------- From: Bree Mcdonough bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:44:54 -0400 To: bluejr@adelphia.net, joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: poverty njc Knit-picker number two..thank you. I got it! But seriously...thanks. Bree : > >PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again > >and getting the same result. > >Not 'getting the same result', it's 'expecting a different result'. > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:59:36 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Contempt and disdain NJC >However, I do wonder why the treatment of and attitude towards others can become so different when the topic is politics and not Joni's music. Yes, these are serious issues, matters of life and death. But I struggle with seeing the gain in lobbing a diss. Moving on...< sometimes it reminds me of how people can be rude when they are driving but maybe face to face they wouldn't be... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:12:02 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC >> I hold GWB and the right wing in the greatest amount of contempt and >> disdain that is humanly possible. Why on earth would I accord any one of >> his apologists anything less? >> I wouldn't even put up with it from one of my own family members, let alone >> someone else who happens to like the same band/artist as I do. Absolutely >> no quarter. > Is this sentiment reflective of the majority of this community? I cannot imagine that's the case. JR's sentiment is, I believe, very much in the minority in this community and in the world community. This isn't meant to put down JR, but most people aren't as "single issue." I hold GWB and the right wing in similar contempt, and I feel great disdain even thinking of them (I cannot stand to watch Shrub on tv anymore), but I have friends -- good friends -- who support him and his policies. Their support is much to my chagrin, dismay, frustration, and confusion, but I know that they are basically good people who are perhaps wired differently than I am. I do not believe GWB, or Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc., are basically good people. They may have started out that way, long ago (perhaps at birth), but they left that far behind in their quest for power and money. Regardless, my friends who are good people and who support and follow their doctrine remain my friends, and I want to understand why they think as they do. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:15:36 -0400 From: frednow@aol.com Subject: (njc) Chicago Jazz Composers Collective concert For anyone in Chicago this weekend ... Got some new music and some re-imagined old music played by a group with multiple guitars. I'm really excited to hear how it's gonna turn out, and I hope you all can drop by and have a listen. As always, I'm grateful for your past and future support. Fred =========================== Chicago Jazz Composers Collective presents: FRED SIMON GROUP Fred Simon - composer, piano David Onderdonk - guitar Chris Siebold - guitar Brian Wilkie - pedal steel guitar Tom Hipskind - drums Eric Hochberg - bass [also appearing on the program is composer/saxophonist Jim Gailloreto and his excellent group, Split Decision] Sunday, September 24, 2006 2-4 PM (Fred @ 2, Jim @ 3) The Green Mill, 4802 N. Broadway, Chicago, IL (773) 878-5552 Cover charge for this special event is only $5, and listeners of all ages are welcome, although those under 21 must be accompanied by a guardian. ***IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT IS GOOD*** ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #348 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------