From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #347 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 21 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 347 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: You Wanna Make Videos? Raise 'Em Up Like Sheep ["ron" ] Both sides now [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Both sides now [Victor Johnson ] RE: poverty njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: poverty njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Alarm NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Contempt and disdain NJC ["Jenny Goodspeed" ] RE: poverty njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Both sides now [Benedicte Nielsen ] NJC Attn: Mack [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Contempt and disdain NJC [Smurf ] NJC: Thats all right mamma cover, live, wow! [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Both sides now [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Both sides now [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: Happy Birthday Bob Muller!!! ["Donna Binkley" ] RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc [Joseph Palis ] RE : Re: Both sides now [Joseph Palis ] RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc [Joseph Palis ] RE: Alarm NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: RE : Re: Both sides now [Jerry Notaro ] now NJC Joseph's gig [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: now NJC Joseph's gig [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Contempt and disdain NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] BSN [Kate ] RE: Alarm NJC ["Azeem" ] Re: Both sides now [Michael Flaherty ] RE: Alarm NJC now Worst Hair of the 80's [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: poverty njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: BSN [Smurf ] NJC Joseph's gig now outsider music [Joseph Palis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:18:34 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: You Wanna Make Videos? Raise 'Em Up Like Sheep hi nuriel wrote > 1.Probably the very first Joni T'ai Chi video, very relaxing too... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpp4ZvS0yuw thanks nuriel - i really loved that great way to prepare for a stressfull day - i still have started what i was supposed to finish by monday & i think its gonna bite me today :-) ron np - janis - cry baby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:47:43 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Alarm NJC Bob the Mulester said: >>NP: The Alarm "Absolute Reality"<< I say: Welsh band, from (Sunny) Rhyl I think. One hit wonders in the UK, how ever did you come to hear of them? mike in barcelona, welsh since 1953. What a year that was, eh Smurf, Cat? np Linton Kwesi Johnson - Independant Intavenshan ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 2006 12:02:06 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Both sides now On Sep 20 2006, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >think of the Both Sides Album?> > >In general, I was very disappointed in it, and 6 years later it doesn't >fall on my ears any easier. > >I found the arrangements heavy and schmaltzy, and though I didn't complain >about Joni's "smoky" voice as much as some, I don't feel like she was >really playing to her strengths on this project. It remains my least >favorite of her albums. Otoh, she really enjoyed the project, it kept her >in the game a little longer, and it inspired her to follow through with >Travelogue, which was more creative in terms of its arrangements but >ultimately was also disappointing to me. > >What I REALLY resented about BSN was the marketing; the first release to >come out (the one that we rabid fans were more likely going to get) was >the "hatbox" version; it cost $40 or so, and many copies were damaged in >transit. The bonus lyric cards and mini-paintings hardly justified the >price, and it's certainly not a collector's item now. > >Bob > - -------------------- Wos I'm surprised about this bad review! I accidentally deleted the digest, and can't remember who else said she jsut fufilled a contract with that album. I really enjoyed it (lent it to a damn friend a year ago and he refuses to give it back!). I see the point of some of the arrangements being a bit heavy, but I much prefer them to the ones on Travelogue which are too theatrical to my taste. Somehow, I find that the more conventional and tighter frame on BSN makes her stand out more, on Travelogue you've got weird things going on in the background and male voices coming in from the side. I like the way she sometimes uses her voice almost like a saxophone on BSN, that's something I like on Travelogue as well (on 'Love' for instance); and I like Wayne Shorter's saxophone on BSN. I think it sounds like she puts a lot of emotion and effort into these songs... but it sounds like here is an album I can have for myself : ) ... Benedicte ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:03:32 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Both sides now > I think it sounds like she puts a lot of emotion and effort into > these songs... but it sounds like here is an album I can have for > myself : ) ... > > Benedicte I actually love this album. I remember being sort of on the fence before seeing her live in 2000 but after seeing her perform these songs I was really able to connect with them. I guess its just the jazz cat in me...I love the standards when they're done well. I agree the hatbox was ill advised. Victor NP: WSB radio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:21:00 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: RE: poverty njc Bree wrote: But after the fourth grade things dramatically change...American school children fall off....they take a big dive. Belgium children continue on an upward course. Why? Is it because Belgium's parents are given money/vouchers and can send their child to the school of THEIR choosing? Another little tidbit: At private schools, 80 percent of the personnel are teachers. Public schools: 50 percent of the personnel are actual teachers. (pumping more and more money into schools is not the answer) (those big bad republicans just won't allocate the $$$) Dear Bree, I would say pumping more money into the *teachers* is the answer. Teacher's low salaries are at the root of the problem in my opinion, especially here in Arkansas. There isn't much incentive for good teachers here. Children are our most precious resource so the lack of focus on education doesn't make sense to me. I guess it is the Reoccurring Dream being sung. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:55:25 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: poverty njc So you're saying that the problem with public schools is that they have TOO MUCH money? If I tried to sell that notion to my wife (Public school teacher for 15 years) and her teacher friends, they would gleefully tear me limb from limb. Now, if you're talking about allocation of funding, maybe there's something to be said for that. As for Unions, they're non-existent here in the south, and our 49th ranking nationally would prove in a way that Unions are not the downfall of education. I admit that I don't know everything about the voucher program, but on the surface it feels like people want the Government to pay for their kids to go to a private school? That doesn't make sense to me. We sent Nate to a private high school because the public high schools at the time converted to a "block" schedule and my wife had studied the data proving that block scheduling was academically inferior. (They have since reneged on this decision and resorted to traditional scheduling). In many rural areas of SC, they are starting to establish many small, private (usually Christian) schools that seem to have the hidden agenda of re-establishing segregation (they can decide on who gets in) as opposed to establishing any kind of academic integrity. The way I see it, the voucher system would use taxpayer funds to re-institute school segregation. This doesn't seem like the answer to me - maybe it is. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Tom Traubert's Blues" (Four Sheets to the Wind in Copenhagen) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:11:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Alarm NJC I was originally exposed to them in a review of their first release here which was actually just a 4 or 5 song EP. I read the review in (insert name of really hip magazine here). I cheated and bought the EP for my sister for a present, and then immediately gave it a spin and really liked it. Then "Declaration" came out, and I really loved it. Yes, they sounded a lot like U2 but the songs were powerful and anthemic and made me feel good. I remember 68 Guns as a video on MTV. They followed that with "Strength" which I though was even better - lots of big guitars. And big hair on Mike Peters too, but that's another story. I did pick up a compilation CD so I'd have some of what I liked on disc. Anyway, they apparantly were much bigger here than there? Bob NP: Neil Young, "Looking For A Leader" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:13:15 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC Brenda, I'm curious, why are you asking that? Is that what appears to be the case? Good lord I hope not. When I read the list I keep in mind that there are a handful of people who choose to participate in political discussions and an even smaller group of people who choose to make the discussions personal. I learn pretty quickly who those people are and use the delete key liberally. Harder to do that when a person's on digest though I realize. Oh and one things for there is always trouble started when people start making assumptions about and expressing intolerance for another person's views. lame. lame. lame. But, again I keep in mind that only a few people do this - they just might be heavy posters currently. Jenny On 9/20/06, Brenda wrote: > > Perhaps, but that wasn't what I was asking. > > B > > n.p.: Shooter Jennings - "The Silver Tongued Devil & I" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: RE: poverty njc Here in Florida Jeb Bush pushed and fought hard for the voucher system. Funny this is, the private schools who get public money don't have to go through assessment like the public schools do. So who do you think he is trying to please? Those who care about education, or the religious school parents who voted for them? I'm all for freedom of religion, but if you weant to send your kids to a private, religious school, you should pay for it. And don't tell me your taxes pay for it. Your taxes pay for public schools, which all children have a right to. If you reverse the logic, then I'm owed tons of money, because I have no children, yet I have contributed to the system for 40 years. Jerry, who went to all private schools, and whose parents paid both taxes and tuition for that privilege Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > pumping more and more dollars in the system ..a failed ..defective > system.> > > So you're saying that the problem with public schools is that they have > TOO MUCH money? If I tried to sell that notion to my wife (Public school > teacher for 15 years) and her teacher friends, they would gleefully tear > me limb from limb. Now, if you're talking about allocation of funding, > maybe there's something to be said for that. > > As for Unions, they're non-existent here in the south, and our 49th > ranking nationally would prove in a way that Unions are not the downfall > of education. > > I admit that I don't know everything about the voucher program, but on the > surface it feels like people want the Government to pay for their kids to > go to a private school? That doesn't make sense to me. We sent Nate to a > private high school because the public high schools at the time converted > to a "block" schedule and my wife had studied the data proving that block > scheduling was academically inferior. (They have since reneged on this > decision and resorted to traditional scheduling). > > In many rural areas of SC, they are starting to establish many small, > private (usually Christian) schools that seem to have the hidden agenda of > re-establishing segregation (they can decide on who gets in) as opposed to > establishing any kind of academic integrity. The way I see it, the voucher > system would use taxpayer funds to re-institute school segregation. This > doesn't seem like the answer to me - maybe it is. > > Bob > > NP: Tom Waits, "Tom Traubert's Blues" (Four Sheets to the Wind in > Copenhagen) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 2006 14:31:31 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Both sides now On Sep 21 2006, Victor Johnson wrote: > >I actually love this album. Am glad to hear it! > I guess its just the jazz cat in me...I love the standards when they're > done > well. Victor Just my words.....! Benedicte NP BranVan 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:20:23 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Attn: Mack Mack, Just saw this Hall & Oates "early rarities" CD out today on cdbaby - thought you might be interested since you're a big fan. Maybe this is already in your collection. http://cdbaby.com/cd/dhalljoates Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Happy" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:18:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC Jenny Goodspeed wrote: << When I read the list I keep in mind that there are a handful of people who choose to participate in political discussions and an even smaller group of people who choose to make the discussions personal. >> And at this moment of the list all these people appear to be American. I propose that we (in the US) take a break from posting political stuff for the rest of the year to see if the atmosphere improves around here. I think the non-US people who have been subjected to endless rants have been remarkably tolerant and deserve a break. I am also guilty of jumping in to political discussions even though I really do try to stay out of them. I think it's significant that in my six years on the list I have no recollection of anyone changing his or her opinion on anything during these petty wars. Am I the only one who is ready to ditch the list to avoid this crap? --Smurf, one foot out the door since 1953 PS, Mike: Yes, it was a very good year -- for boy babies anyway! - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 2006 15:08:40 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: NJC: Thats all right mamma cover, live, wow! OK I have to share this with somebody. If you want to hear a live party that ROCKS, then listen to my fav male singer Jim Neversink performing Thats All Right Mamma with another SA artist. The sound quality is not that good and that other guy doesn't sing half as well as JN, but man are they having fun! Then click on Transfer to Harding to hear him perform a quiet narrative... Highly recommended....: http://www.myspace.com/westernworld ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Both sides now My objection was the overblown orchestrations. I would have loved Joni on the piano with drums, acoustic bass, guitar, and maybe a horn player. Jerry Benedicte Nielsen wrote: > On Sep 21 2006, Victor Johnson wrote: > >> >>I actually love this album. > > Am glad to hear it! > >> I guess its just the jazz cat in me...I love the standards when they're >> done > well. Victor > > Just my words.....! > > Benedicte > > NP BranVan 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:36:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Both sides now And this was my claim as well. Nothing about this CD says jazz to me. Bob NP: AC/DC, "For Those About To Rock" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 2006 15:34:51 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Re: Both sides now On Sep 21 2006, Gerald A. Notaro wrote: >My objection was the overblown orchestrations. I would have loved Joni on >the piano with drums, acoustic bass, guitar, and maybe a horn player. > > >Jerry We agree then! In stead of the horn player, they cold keep Wayne Shorter on the saxcophone! Benedicte NP "That's all right Mamma" on http://www.myspace.com/westernworld (it really rocks...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:10:26 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Bob Muller!!! Happy Birthday Bobification! To my favorite Ambassador of Jonifest. Can't wait to see you in March. Love Tushie >>> 9/20/2006 4:05 PM >>> Happy Birthday Bob....you know how I remember...... Rosie just back from Cocamo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:50:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: RE : Shawn Colvin's New Release (SJC) now NJC Joseph's gig Hi Em, I am no longer as nervous as the debut broadcast and yes I am enjoying it immensely. My voice still shakes when I am on the air so yesterday I put some 'musical scoring' while I talk so my voice won't come out naked and unaccompanied. I looped the opening of Bjork's "Human Behavior" and it came out fine. Then later I used Anne Dudley's score for "The Crying Game" and the somber/melancholy side is what I like about this score. But yeah, dead air is still there. Hopefully I will be more confident in succeeding gigs. I am playing Sherrelle and Kate next Wednesday. Yesterday's was my second show and I got three phone calls (and they were not asking for tickets) asking me about the song and the other one just totally blew me away with his enthusiastic thumbs up that I played Manhattan Transfer's version of La-La Means I Love You featuring Laura Nyro. The best thing about DJ'ing is discovering new music which is great because otherwise I would not have known and realized that I immensely liked Venetian Snares, Dengue Fever, Jandek, Daniel Johnston, Luisito Quintero, and you know there is more. The downside about this is that I know I will start buying some I really dig just when I am scaling down my CD collection. I also spend inordinately long amounts of time to come up with my playlist because I really really like to create mini-themes which I think the DJs in this List have a much easier time doing. I like it when one music ends, another comes up that is either musically similar to the previous one or completely different but one that 'emotionally' and affectively sets the tone for the next tune. So after Art Ensemble of Chicago, I play Cleo Laine's "Turkish Delight" and I get a rush of adrenaline hearing it on the air much more than the listeners themselves. I guess I am a crazy greenhorn. My folks in Manila are all tuned in during the time I am on air which is early evening and works better for all their schedules, so I know that they are streaming it on their pc's and laptops. My Eastern Time friends complain that the radio show is too early for them to wake up and other friends in the West coast said that waking up at 3am just to listen to my 'type of music' and nervous voice is really a test of friendship. But they do send emails after and comment on the gig and music. Almost always they get interested with one or a few of the artists I played. But enough about that. Maybe in the future you can listen when I am more polished and less nervous, but more than that I hope you will like the music. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Pat Metheny Group "On Her Way" P.S. Happy birthday Bob! Em a icrit : are you enjoying your dj-ing? I hope so, Does it make you nervous??? have you subjected your audience to dead air (yet)? Remembering back 15-16 years when I used to occaisionally dj a bit at our community radio station. Some of the most fun I ever had in my life! But it made me nervous...lol...very nervous! so nervous that I think I had adrenalin rushes. Long ago. Hope you are having a blast, Joseph. Wish I were up earlier, so I could try to listen to you via the streaming audio. :) Em - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC - --- Smurf wrote: > And at this moment of the list all these people appear to be > American. I propose that we (in the US) take a break from posting > political stuff for the rest of the year to see if the atmosphere > improves around here. I think the non-US people who have been > subjected to endless rants have been remarkably tolerant and deserve > a break. Smurf, and all, if this is what the list wants, no more political posts from the Americans, then I , for one, will cheerfully abide by that. But I wanted to mention something that occurs to me, and that is that at least a handful of times I have read where people outside the States seem to have this idea that Americans are just too lazy or stupid or mean, or whatever, to even bother with politics. Politics that, in fact, impact the entire planet. Not so here. At least people on this list care enough to bother to discuss. Change comes slowly, but the more dialog there is, hopefully the more swiftly change could come. I am reminded of the Episcopalians, making lots and lots of changes and practically turning themselves inside out to make these changes and still remain whole. I find it valuable to hear the opinions of people on this list, as opposed to going to, say, a list especially FOR political discussion. The reason is I find the people on those lists are just way too rabid. And they baffle a person with BS to the point where its impossible to cut to the quick of a matter. This list is the only place I've ever found where I felt comfortable posting about political matters. Mainly, I think, due to the (usually) gentle nature of the JMDL folks. But if it is better to not discuss politics here then I will, as I often tell my dog, "leave it!". I feel privileged to be able to hang out here even without the political stuff, and I don't want to mess that up. I'm actually having some Joni thoughts today. Just got around to listening to the entire CMIARS (which I was unexpectedly given a couple weeks ago). But only listening through a tiny 'puter speaker. Will take the CD home with me tonight, because what I've heard actually makes me want to listen in more depth. Getting some odd visuals from TBOBW. Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:03:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc Hi Brenda -- I didn't know M. Ward before but at his last night's performance at Cat's Cradle here in Carrboro he played his guitar and everyone in the audience just stopped still. Everyone listened so intently I did not hear a single slight movement. Midwayt through his performance I had major goose bumps and saw my friends fold their arms and slowly rub each side of the arm as though brushing away their own goose bumps. Something only Marcel Marceau and Rickie Lee Jones which I witnessed in the past, can bring to a performance. Joseph in Chapel (getting goosebumps again remembering last night's perf) Brenda a icrit : For the M. Ward fans, he was guest DJ on the latest edition of All Songs Considered. It's a brief but revealing conversation about his influences and collaborators: http://www.npr.org/programs/asc/ B n.p.: ANTM - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:33:11 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc Man, Joseph, I am so jealous of you having access to the Cat's Cradle. Everyone I want to see passes through there. I did frequent it a couple of times when I lived in the area. If you don't already have M.Ward's "Post-War", go get it today. Or not. Bob NP: Prince, "The Dance" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:27:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC >All, Is this sentiment reflective of the majority of this community? Brenda< Of course not. Each post is someone's individual opinion & some here are more respectful than others when expressing themselves. I agree with you that civility is important to maintain when discussing issues but some people find that easier than others do. Just like spelling & grammar :~} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:24:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: Both sides now Maybe mine's a minority opinion, but I llike the Vince Mendoza's orchestrations which I will call Wagnerian. And quite the opposite works for me -- I like that Joni's voice is assisted by string arrangements. For me her voice needed those orchestrations to highlight its wear and tear. Her "A Case of You" from BSN still makes me misty-eyed. But that's just me. Joseph np: Gloria Lynne "Trouble is a Man" "Gerald A. Notaro" a icrit : My objection was the overblown orchestrations. I would have loved Joni on the piano with drums, acoustic bass, guitar, and maybe a horn player. Jerry Benedicte Nielsen wrote: > On Sep 21 2006, Victor Johnson wrote: > >> >>I actually love this album. > > Am glad to hear it! > >> I guess its just the jazz cat in me...I love the standards when they're >> done > well. Victor > > Just my words.....! > > Benedicte > > NP BranVan 2000 - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:37:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : M. Ward on All Songs Considered - njc Thanks for the further thumbs up (way way up as Siskel/Ebert/Roper say) for M. Ward. I will definitely get "Post War" and his earlier stuff. The great thing about buying these CDs is that almost always they turn up in used record stores for 8.00 or 9.00 dollars and for some bizarre reason I prefer used copies than brand new ones. I don't know why but I think its partly because I foolishly think that when I buy used copies I am saving money, so I buy several used copies not knowing it was tantamount to buying Wagner's Ring Cycle (or at least Gotterdammerung). Maybe when you pass through the Triangle next time, drop me a line so we can catch one show in Cat's Cradle or Local 506. Joseph in Chapel Hill (wondering why he is unusually chatty in the List today) np: Gloria Lynne "All Night Long" Bob.Muller@Fluor.com a icrit : Man, Joseph, I am so jealous of you having access to the Cat's Cradle. Everyone I want to see passes through there. I did frequent it a couple of times when I lived in the area. If you don't already have M.Ward's "Post-War", go get it today. Or not. Bob NP: Prince, "The Dance" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail riinvente le mail ! Dicouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface rivolutionnaire. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:45:02 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC > Not so here. At least people on this list care enough to bother to > discuss. > Change comes slowly, but the more dialog there is, hopefully the more > swiftly change could come. And yet another angle...I care about politics but don't generally discuss it with my friends and prefer not to discuss them here. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned with worldly issues or that I'm not interested in change. In any case, as I've thought before and as Jenny was getting at, we should be careful and avoid making assumptions about people whom we really know nothing about. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:33:58 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: Or we can talk about JMOCD You made me smile Patti( and Catherine, too) Come and talk to me Please talk to me Talk to me talk to me Mr. Mystery SO You know - "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" Romeo Romeo talk to me... Ohh, come and talk to me You could talk like a fool I'd listen You could talk like a sage Anyway the best of my mind All goes down on the strings and the page (I' m always talking) Chicken squawking Please talk to me In the forest of the night Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:46:57 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: Alarm NJC >>Yes, they (the Alarm) sounded a lot like U2 but the songs were powerful and anthemic and made me feel good. I remember 68 Guns as a video on MTV. They followed that with "Strength" which I though was even better - lots of big guitars. And big hair on Mike Peters too, but that's another story. I did pick up a compilation CD so I'd have some of what I liked on disc. Anyway, they apparently were much bigger here than there?<< Hey Bob, I can't compare how popular they were in two countries, but if I remember rightly they were not really big in the UK for long, and 68 guns was as far as I know their only big hit. I don't know the other tracks you mention so maybe they had more of a career than I am aware of. My bad, maybe. Perhaps some britlistas could throw more light on it. mike in bcn np stryngs newie - I love it (comment, not song title) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:59:52 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: RE : Re: Both sides now > Maybe mine's a minority opinion, but I llike the Vince Mendoza's > orchestrations which I will call Wagnerian. Well I find him bloated and overrated, too. Jerry :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:18:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: now NJC Joseph's gig Jandek? Daniel Johnston? Whoa, you are entering into a weird and exciting area, Joseph. Or maybe you've been into 'outsider' music for awhile? Jandek absolutely fascinates me. I've heard two of his CD's and read lots on the web and seen the documentary "Jandek on Corwood" which I recommend if you haven't seen it. Joni's guitar tunings have nothing on Jandek! As for Daniel Johnston, as synchronicity would have it, this is what Netflix is delivering to me today: http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70024106&trkid=90529 I'll actually be heading back up to the Triangle Oct 12 for 10 days, but won't have much free time. Maybe something will work out though. NP: Joni, "Woodstock" (MOA) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:41:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: now NJC Joseph's gig > As for Daniel Johnston, as synchronicity would have it, this is what > Netflix is delivering to me today: > > http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70024106&trkid=90529 And I ordered it on Tuesday! Very well reviewed in this morning's St. Petersburg Times. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:44:40 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Contempt and disdain NJC Smurf writes: > Am I the only one who is ready to ditch the list to avoid this crap? > Actually Bob, the political discussions have been great for me. I've been so damn busy at work, I get to hit the delete key 100 times a day and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Back to lurking once again, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:48:10 -0600 From: Kate Subject: BSN > think of the Both Sides Album?> I love it. I keep about a dozen of Joni's CDs on my desk as I work at my computer, and have the rest with my CD-player downstairs, but BSN remains on my desk and more often than not it is the one I play. I can't help singing along ... l have never been a big fan of orchestral music, but I love these songs, the way Joni sings them, and when I lay down and close my eyes and listen to the songs turned up loud ... WOW. I am blown away by what I suppose are called the arrangements. She's done a beautiful job here and I find her voice warm and human, as opposed to her more youthful voice, which was beautiful but certainly never warm. Kate http://xoetc.antville.org my journal page ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:20:34 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: Alarm NJC My recollection of the Alarm is of one of the most critically derided bands of their generation; they were regarded by most of the scribblers (and a lot of the general public) as a bit of a joke, starting out as Clash wannabes with rabble-rousing songs like 68 Guns and Where Were You Hiding When The Storm Broke? Part of the problem was the clash (no pun intended) between their painfully earnest and humourless demeanor, and their rather limited ability. That said, their fans were loyal passionate and they were reputedly a great night out in concert. There was then a gap, and they reappeared with Rain In The Summertime - and THAT song really did sound like mid-period U2 - which as far as I can remember was quite a big hit. That's as much as I can tell you except that Mike Peters's hairstyle was a truly frightening mullet, which would probably see them banished from pre-watershed telly in these censorious times. Azeem in London - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of mike pritchard Sent: 21 September 2006 17:47 To: list Subject: RE: Alarm NJC >>Yes, they (the Alarm) sounded a lot like U2 but the songs were powerful and anthemic and made me feel good. I remember 68 Guns as a video on MTV. They followed that with "Strength" which I though was even better - lots of big guitars. And big hair on Mike Peters too, but that's another story. I did pick up a compilation CD so I'd have some of what I liked on disc. Anyway, they apparently were much bigger here than there?<< Hey Bob, I can't compare how popular they were in two countries, but if I remember rightly they were not really big in the UK for long, and 68 guns was as far as I know their only big hit. I don't know the other tracks you mention so maybe they had more of a career than I am aware of. My bad, maybe. Perhaps some britlistas could throw more light on it. mike in bcn np stryngs newie - I love it (comment, not song title) - -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 20/09/2006 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 20/09/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:43:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Both sides now "Gerald A. Notaro" wrote: >My objection was the overblown orchestrations. I would have loved Joni on the piano with drums, acoustic bass, guitar, and maybe a horn player. Me too. In fact, her "jazz" period is my favorite, but I always prefer a smaller group (in rock and classical too). I will agree that it worked live, although I prefered seeing her with a small group in that case as well. Just for the record, it was actually Joni who said she was fulfilling her contract. No new songs. Of course, that doesn't mean she was totally indifferent to the results or that there's anything wrong with enjoying them. Michael F. Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:15:46 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Alarm NJC now Worst Hair of the 80's I'll see your Mike Peters mullet, and raise you a Sigue Sigue Sputnik: http://2004.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2004/95n/n95n-s55.shtml Bob NP: Bob D, "Rollin & Tumblin'" NPIMH: Wesley Willis, "Cut That Mullet" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:28:19 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: poverty njc Hi Laura...and all.... IF you take into consideration all the time they have off..summer..and then all the other holidays..spring break....they make a pretty good salary. I think Marianne told me she gets off ...when added all together ..it adds up to about 16 weeks...maybe more. In a lot of careers/jobs if one had that much time off.. their salary would be cut in half. Also..usually when someone is in a job and they aren't producing good results...they are usually quickly dismissed. Can you imagine a CEO being hired year after year...with increases in salary..bonuses ....but his company holdings were dismal...the company operated in the red? How long would this CEO or manger have their job? Not very long. Yet teachers....no matter how incompetent....they will continue to flourish in that job...pay increases and all the rest. IF one happens to be found incompetent they are reassigned.. with pay... somewhere into the system. Actually firing a teacher...is a very rare thing. Taking your logic that the root of the problem in public schools is low teachers salaries....then why ..let's say...forty years ago..when salaries were low for teachers...why then..were public schools so much better... and kids actually learned?! Did you know in some states..NY being one...there are "rubber" rooms. This is a place where teachers...I use that term loosely.. go each school day and just sit..but continue to receive their salary. These "rubber" room sitters were so glaringly bad..so incompetent...that finally they had to be taken out of the classroom. Not fired..mind you...just put somewhere else. The true root of the problem in public schools..IMO..is a mixed jumbled mess: Lack of discipline..the kids have the upper hand.....no parental involvement.....bad teachers.....too powerful of a union ...hold onto that power/monopoply no matter the cost to children.....on and on. So yes....give the teachers who are competent a good salary..with a raise each year...but the ones who are not....OUT OF THERE! So if we want education to get better in this country ...my God...let's quit putting it into these rotten failed schools . I'm not a parent and am outraged...so parents..where is your outrage? Bree PS. The definiton of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result. >Dear Bree, > > I would say pumping more money into the *teachers* is the answer. >Teacher's low salaries are at the root of the problem in my opinion, >especially >here in Arkansas. There isn't much incentive for good teachers here. >Children >are our most precious resource so the lack of focus on education doesn't >make sense to me. I guess it is the Reoccurring Dream being sung. > >Love, >Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:04:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: BSN About BSN, Kate wrote: << She's done a beautiful job here and I find her voice warm and human, as opposed to her more youthful voice, which was beautiful but certainly never warm. >> I never thought of it that way, Kate, but I think you've hit upon one of the features of Joni's more mature voice that I love. Boy, she really could hit those icy altitudes when younger. I remember my mother complaining about "that screeching" when I played young Joni in my bedroom back when Jesus was a boy. --Smurf - --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:26:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: NJC Joseph's gig now outsider music My first introduction to 'outsider' music is through Sister Gertrude who some fans of this type of music may know as an outsider painter as much as a singer. Come to think of it, she does not really sing in the way most people categorise singing. Her singing voice, like Brigitte Fontaine, is partly spoken, partly an unschooled type of jubilee singing that recalls field hollers and railroad singers from our earliest of blues singers. Sister Gertrude composed all her gospel music and sang them with that nasally piercing voice with her harmonica. She was said to have been a regular street fixture in New Orleans in the 1960s singing to pedestrians about God. But her paintings are just as differently sublime as her musicianship. If you all watched Phil Morrison's "Junebug" from last year, you may have seen that character who is an outsider painter from North Carolina whose works Embeth Dadidtz's art dealer character is trying to curate in Chicago. Sister Gertrude's paintings are like that -- which is a collage, an overemphasis on certain themes (mostly birds and clouds) and very liberal use of (loud) colors. At the risk of fetishizing this type of art, I must say that the music she produces is almost the aural equivalent of this painting. Anyway, I read about Jandek only this year but have not heard him. I have not seen :Jandek on Corwood" yet, Bob but I do want to see it. Jandek produced something like 40+ albums in more than 30 years with just him and his detuned guitar and an occasional guest from an unnamed woman who fans call Nancy (she first sang in a Jandek song called "Nancy Sings"). Jandek's voice is not like Sister Gertrude. There is a certain polish in the phrasing. His music is like free association, stream-of-consciousness type like "Hey Mister Can You Hear Me?" which I played on air yesterday. His albums are notoriously hard to find but thanks to online stores and used record shops. As for Daniel Johnston, I first 'heard' him when I was in a movie house in Cary with friends and waiting for the previews to begin (previews are sometimes more interesting than the movies, yes?). There was this reedy voice that I heard. And for a moment I thought it was the guy selling popcorn in the theater lobby outside of the moviehouse because the voice sounds like some guy singing softly to himself unmindful of pitch. Later, when the previews came and one of the films previewed was "The Devil and Daniel Johnston", we heard the same voice as coming from the guy featured in that movie. So, that WAS Daniel Johnston. One of my friends knew of him before but I certainly wasn't, so I started getting his all albums: Fun, Songs of Pain, Fear Yourself, Rejected, etc. -- all bearing his quavery voice. Some are painful to hear not because they are sonically ugly but because of the nakedness of emotion he lays bare. When he sings "Crazy Love" discussing his obsession with a girl and how he misses her, the build-up of emotions plus the growing desperation in his shaking voice are some sounds I recognize in my own past and I guess it made me remember awkwardly the moments that accompany those remembrances. Daniel Johnston made me revisit things that may not be similar to his own but have emotional resonance to me. Read much later that he died and that it is only now that people are discovering his music. But I don't think people will flock to his albums just like those artists whose album sales peaked after their deaths: Aaliyah, Eva Cassidy, Selena, Nancy Lamott to name a few talented performers. Daniel Johnston's voice is an acquired taste (as are all outsider artists whose artistic visions went south from mainstream's tastes) and he does not have a big voice (just like Jandek) but what he has had is very very affecting through economies of scale. I don't know if I will start replacing CDs I used to have for every new CD I have, but the last time I checked Daniel Johnston's CDs are now competing with my Thelonious Monk's in terms of the number of CDs I own. And oh, I also watched and liked "The Devil and Daniel Johnston". Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Darondo "My Momma and My Poppa" Bob.Muller@Fluor.com a icrit : Jandek? Daniel Johnston? Whoa, you are entering into a weird and exciting area, Joseph. Or maybe you've been into 'outsider' music for awhile? Jandek absolutely fascinates me. I've heard two of his CD's and read lots on the web and seen the documentary "Jandek on Corwood" which I recommend if you haven't seen it. Joni's guitar tunings have nothing on Jandek! As for Daniel Johnston, as synchronicity would have it, this is what Netflix is delivering to me today: http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70024106&trkid=90529 I'll actually be heading back up to the Triangle Oct 12 for 10 days, but won't have much free time. Maybe something will work out though. NP: Joni, "Woodstock" (MOA) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #347 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------