From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #342 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 19 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 342 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Woodstock ---> Stardust [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Worthless waste of time meets Joni [Victor Johnson ] Woodstock ---> Stardust [Benedicte Nielsen ] Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) [Em ] Order of Canada [Victor Johnson ] Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane [Dflahm@aol.com] NJC Simpsons [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Order of Canada [Catherine McKay ] RE: What would Joni do? [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane [Catherine McKay ] Joni and the GLBT crowd ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] The Times They are a Changin' [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] RE: Joni Mitchell NJC ["Les Irvin" ] Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) [waytoblue@comcast.ne] Worthless waste of time meets Joni II [waytoblue@comcast.net] njc, Guess Who's Coming to UConn? ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) [Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Woodstock ---> Stardust You're right, Bob. This one wasn't included on the Remix Project but, who knows, there may be a volume 2 if I get enough tracks. "Dull and repetitive"? Why, of course. Isn't that what dance music is all about? Mark in Sydney NP Take Me Walking In The Rain - Janis Ian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:43:36 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) Hi Bene. Back when I thought I was the only person on Earth who was into Joni, I often wondered why more gay people weren't into her songs. Since joining this list, I realise how misguided I was. Of course, I can't speak for any other gay people but the reason I think gay men are rapt in her songs is because many tend to be deep thinkers. They are also very aware of the political inequities that go in the world, having been victims of it. The idea of being pidgeonholed is a consequence that has occurred to Joni and many gay men and women can relate to that. Obviously there are many people who approach Joni's songs from a musical appreciation, both gay and straight but, I believe many gay people are very in touch with the complexities of human relationships and feel the anger of injustice to the average person deeply. As I said, I can't speak for all gay people but, this is what touches me about Joni's songs. It is her thought processes. She states so eloquently much of what I feel. To feel is to be alive. Mark in Sydney (gay capital of the world) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:11:09 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Shadows & Light I also noticed Hissing of Summer Lawns is not available either. I'm not sure about Joni specifically but I know its up to the artist/ label to make each song/album available on itunes. Why there's such a seemingly random selection I have no idea. Metallica recently gave in after holding out for years and is now making their music available for download. On the other hand, you won't find any John Lennon on i-tunes because of the ongoing dispute between Apple Records and Apple Computers ( a stupid dispute that is a senseless waste of time if you ask me...) Victor, awake at this ungodly hour for unknown reasons > Can anyone tell me why Shadows and Light isn't available on i- > Tunes? Other > Joni CDs are available but not this one. > > Thanks > Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:22:32 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Worthless waste of time meets Joni I thought it would be interesting to take the words "worthless waste of time" and add them to a random Joni song to see if they make any sense. Maybe its my offbeat sense of humor but this song has me cracking up...or maybe it's just because its 5:20 am. Anyone else like to play? Victor NP: the sound of Joni (the cat) slurping water out of her bowl I Think I Understand(worthless waste of time) by Joni Mitchell and Victor Johnson o? Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #341 - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:06:58 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) Benedicte wrote: > (which brings about the question: why all the gay people on this list? what is it about her??? My first thought was, "because we're so sensitive and appreciate of fine art," but of course sensitivity and art appreciation is not limited to gay people. Speaking only for myself, I think perhaps it's that many of Joni's songs are about painful longing. What she has written, played, sung (and painted) doesn't have to match exactly to any one thing or set of things that may have happened in the listener's (or viewer's) life. Rather, it's the FEELING that her work brings out of a person, and oftentimes it has to do with how to deal with longing. Again, it's not limited to gay people, but gays and lesbians certainly have known our share of longing ... to be accepted, to be loved, to survive, to [fill in the blank]. Just my nickel's worth for now. Lori Santa Rosa, CA - - Thanks for responding! I guess it makes some sense - but not entirely, does it? I guess I am a bit obsessed with gender, and this is why I posted the question two weeks ago about which male singer would have the same effect on people as Joni Mitchell (not as much effect or more effect, it's not about a top ten, just a similar effect). I somehow felt that she has such a strong female perspective, and that that is part of her strength. But I am not sure I am right, I get the feeling it's the same with her appeal to g&l people, maybe it's just difficult to pinpoint. I get your point though. Benedicte Cambridge UK ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 2006 11:52:08 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Woodstock ---> Stardust - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:12:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Woodstock ---> Stardust http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=103186643 Click on "Stardust" to hear an ambient/trance re-mix of "Woodstock". Mark, I don't think this one was on the Remix project. Personally, I think it's pretty dang dull and repetitive. Maybe that's what the guy was going for. Bob (sorry for forgetting to put the correct heading in my last posting!!) I LIKE this version of Stardust, thanks for the link! It's cool to hear her voice in a different setting. It's true that it's repetitive, but somehow the fascinating thing about it is the sterile atmosphere. It reminds me of "Verve/Remixed" which I played a lot a few summers ago, it's got Carmen McRae, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitz and many more artists from that period but mixed into a dance-thing. The efffect is similar: slightly freaky because of the time gap. There is something surreal about it, it's alive but dead if you know what I mean... NP: verve / Remixed! Carmen McRae "how long has this been going on" NP: Aerosmith, "Write Me" - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) I have some thoughts on this topic too, but new paranoia over my cynicism and my bad grammar are preventing me from going on with my post. Em ps: a bit of Joni content, a co-worker came to me and said "hey you like Joni Mitchell, right? here's CMIARS" and hands me a CD. Of course he spoke the whole title. Just a copy somebody burned. hmmmm..so after the folk and acoustic show is over on our community radio station, I will listen to it! have only ever heard that album in passing...looking forward to it. - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Benedicte wrote: > > > (which brings about the question: why all the gay people on this > list? > what is it about her??? > > My first thought was, "because we're so sensitive and appreciate of > fine > art," but of course sensitivity and art appreciation is not limited > to gay > people...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:27:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul In MD Subject: Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane I was a member of this list for years before I finally posted last year. It took me a long time to introduce myself because it is such a tight knit group and I wasn't sure how I'd fit in. When I finally introduced myself I was amazed that I got such a warm welcome both on and off list. I posted a few more times then vanished into thin air. But, quietly like rattlesnakes and stars, I'm still here lurking. This list is simply amazing. Sure, I've learned about Joni and the music industry but I've also learned how the Brits feel about gun control. Without this list Cindy Sheehan, New Orleans after Katrina and NYC on 9/11 would just be stories in the newpaper and I'd never have known Maude's daughter could sing (thank you, Mr. Muller). I can't even begin to explain how my music horizons have expanded as a result of the discussion here. I feel guilty, however, for not contributing more since it is the JM Discussion List and not the JM Listening List or the JM Voyeur List. What I find is that, when I read my email in the morning, there may be a post I feel like contributing to. Instead of firing off a response, I mark it for followup so that later I can compose my thoughts since I'll be sending the email into cyberspace to be archived for all eternity. By the time I get around to writing the email the list has moved on to other topics and I don't post because I'm totally out of sync. I am not making excuses -- I'm just trying to explain what happens with me. I realize that it's important to give back to the community that's given me so much and the only way to do that is to get involved. I'm sure there are other longtime listers who don't post but feel the same. Personally, I will get myself into a 12 step program for JoniLurkers and learn to use the send button more often. Paul In MD - -- back to lurkdom now ;) Mark Scott wrote:And maybe that's because there are a group of people on here who, intentionally or not, respond to each other's posts almost to the exclusion of anybody else. I'm glad some of you have the time and money to travel and attend various gatherings and that you all are so fond of each other. Don't get me wrong. I think that's a lovely thing. But you have become a pretty tight knit group and it's not easy to break in. Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: And after the intro, away they go, never to post again in lots of cases. And those of us that have been around a while (and that's most of us active folks) have a hard time generating much interest in hashing out old JM discussions. It's all been said. I'm sure there are lots of newbies and relative newbies that could probably crank out some good JC if they gave it a shot. Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:48:05 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Order of Canada I was reading about Rush on wikipedia (thanks Mike) and saw that all three members, Geddy Lee, Neil Peart, and Alex Lifeson are all officers in the Order of Canada. Rush is the first rock band to ever receive this high honor. Is Joni in the Order of Canada? If not she certainly should be. Victor NP: WSB 750 AM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:06:23 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane Every'body's different, with his and her own valid feelings. I can just say that each of us was new once and I never felt excluded. Many who post regularly now joined long after I did. I read the posts for their content; the "seniority" of the poster matters not at all. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:17:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Simpsons Best line of the night, among many..."Man, I used to be a great drummer, and now I'm nothing. Just like Phil Collins." Bob NP: Hank Snow, "A Fool Such As I" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:42:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane That would be great, Paul. Like David so succinctly said, we were all newbies at one time or another, and we choose to jump in and take part or simply be a Blonde In The Bleachers, which is also fine. If you want to get in on the threads while they're still fresh (or hot as the case sometimes is), I would suggest switching from Digest to individual posts. Yes, it can be a bit intimidating to get so much mail, but depending on your situation it's manageable and the best way to get in the thick of things. Hope you can find a way to make it work. I'm a firm believer in the fact that everyone has something to offer, and the more the merrier - or as Joni would say "the more out of tune voices the better". Bob NP: Arthur Alexander, "Burning Love" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:54:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Order of Canada - --- Victor Johnson wrote: > I was reading about Rush on wikipedia (thanks Mike) > and saw that all > three members, Geddy Lee, Neil Peart, and Alex > Lifeson are all > officers in the Order of Canada. Rush is the first > rock band to ever > receive this high honor. > > Is Joni in the Order of Canada? If not she certainly > should be. > > Victor Yes, Joni is a Companion of the Order of Canada, the highest form of honour, celebrating a lifetime of outstanding achievement: http://www.gg.ca/honours/search-recherche/honours-desc.asp?lang=e&TypeID=orc&id=7676 Geddy and the boys may need to wait a few years to be upgraded from "Officer" to "Companion". Apparently they're not yet recognized as "outstanding" (?) Here are the qualifications (Joni's residence is listed as Vancouver.) http://www.gg.ca/honours/nat-ord/oc/index_e.asp There are articles in the jonimitchell.com library, but either the search function isn't working right now or my computer is messing up, so I googled it. Here's one: http://www.jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1188 Coincidentally (or not), in the accompanying photo, the medallion is being placed around Joni's neck by then-governor-general Adrienne Clarkson, who used to be in TV and who interviewed Joni many years ago. Here's a clip of Joni singing and being interviewed by Adrienne and Paul Soles on "Take 30": http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-69-580-3213/life_society/hippies/ This stuff has been mentioned here before but is worth mentioning again, especially for newbies and for old people like me who forget stuff. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:00:25 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: RE: What would Joni do? When we attended the Mendal Art Opening in Saskatoon 6/30/2000 in the gallery no smoking signs were posted all about. Joni stepped up to the podium pulled an ashtray out of her pocket set it on the podium and lit up before she started her lecture. So that's what Joni would do. Got to love her! Peace&Love Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Re: JC on the wane - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > If you want to > get in on the threads while they're still fresh (or > hot as the case > sometimes is), I would suggest switching from Digest > to individual posts. > Yes, it can be a bit intimidating to get so much > mail, but depending on > your situation it's manageable and the best way to > get in the thick of > things. > Here's a real advantage to getting individual posts though, especially (believe it or not) if you choose to get all the posts. You can sort them by subject and if there's a lot of posts on things like, oh, American politics, you can delete 'em all and then read the four or five remaining that are about Joni or other music. Or vegetables. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Joni and the GLBT crowd This actually comes up quite frequently. I wrote a long post about it once. While trying to retrieve it I came across this from our very own JoniMitchell library: Behind from where we came Gay & Lesbian Review, by Jaffe Cohen September 2000 Both Sides Now; Joni Mitchell in concert IT was 3 PM and we were just getting onto the Connecticut Turnpike. Because of heavy traffic on the Cross Bronx Expressway we were running an hour late for the concert. In order to steady his nerves, my new friend Michael from Texas pressed a white rose to his nose and breathed in deeply. He had bought this particular flower to honor his idol, the woman he worshipped as nothing less than Aphrodite and Athena combined: Joni Mitchell. "We certainly lost a few in the 80's," he whispered in a mournful tone. "But they're all coming back now! This concert has been sold out for weeks!" I thanked him for the ticket. "It was either you or my darn sister, and all she cares about Joni is those rock-and-roll songs from Court and Spark. Now what would get us into the mood? I have everything here from her middle period." Michael began thumbing through a bagful of her least successful albums from that unfortunate decade from The Hissing of Summer Lawns to Mingus. "Whatever you want to hear," I replied cheerfully. In truth, I hadn't known Michael long, and was reluctant to admit that I was one of those wayward fans he despised--the ones who abandoned Joni in the mid-70's at about the time that she was abandoning catchy melodies for jazz. "Shadows and Light is really my favorite," Michael announced in his oddly delicate drawl. "It's the concert album where Joni simply lets herself be Joni!" "I've never heard of that one," I replied. Michael gave me the fisheye. "And you call yourself a fan?" He shook his head sadly. "You don't fool me. You're like all the rest who didn't want her to change. Well, honey, the girl's an artist and an artist can do whatever the hell she likes!" Just then the first track kicked in, and the air became heavy with discordant saxophone riffs. I gritted my teeth and prayed we wouldn't hit any more heavy traffic. Michael, however, closed his eyes and swayed contentedly. But soon he broke in, "Someone said that there are two types of people in the world, those who find Joni Mitchell depressing and those are already depressed and find her comforting." "Very interesting," I replied, not sure if I fit into either category. As we sped through Hartford I began to reflect upon my history with Joni, and on why I'd volunteered to drive ten hours to see her with this kook. Mainly, it was her music. Michael was right in saying that there had been a twenty-year period when I'd strayed, but Joni's more recent releases--Night Ride Home, Turbulent Indigo, and Taming the Tiger, featuring her electronic guitar and her now husky voice--had managed to get under my skin in a big way. After 1995, she seemed to regain her tunefulness, and while her lyrics never sounded as complex or relevant as those on Blue or For the Roses, these later albums had become lifesavers for me as I drove home late at night in Los Angeles. After that came her two compilation albums, Hits and Misses which reminded me of how wonderful the old Joni had sounded. Finally, there was her most recent release, Both Sides Now, in which the Diva of Depression had decided to sing a handful of torch songs accompanied by a seventy-piece orchestra. In addition to such war-horses as "You've Changed," "At Last," "I Wish I Were in Love Again," and "Stormy Weather," Joni Mitchell had rearranged two of her own classics, "A Case of You" and "Both Sides Now," and created a concept album tracking the rise and fall--and fall, and fall--of a typical modern romance. I'd bought the album after some initial resistance to the lush orchestration and an occasional weakness in her cigarette-ravaged voice, but found myself returning to it again and again. In truth, these songs were well-chosen for their wit and wisdom, and Joni sang them with honesty. Once again she was re-inventing herself as a mature lady, slightly frayed, who has earned the right to sing the blues. After t he empty vocal gymnastics of a Whitney Houston, a Celine Dionne, or a Mariah Carey, it was refreshing to hear a wise old owl who couldn't lie if she tried. While all this was happening, Joni finally seemed to be getting the recognition she deserved. Since 1998 she's been sampled by Janet Jackson, voted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and declared by a VH-1 expert's poll to be the fifth most influential woman in rock and roll history (after Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Janis Joplin, and Bonnie Raitt). Recently she was feted by the Turner Network with a star-studded salute featuring Cindy Lauper, Winona Ryder, Elton John, and her old flame, James Taylor. Partly because of all this media play, Both Sides Now started doing decent sales and her concert tour was getting rave reviews. The question I asked myself as we parked the car and joined the crowd entering the Fleet Pavilion--an impressive outdoor space on Boston Harbor looking like a circus tent attached to a band shell--was whether Joni could be classified as a "gay icon." The boomer crowd that waited patiently to enter the pavilion certainly had its share of same-sex couples, but it was defined more by its middle-aged demographics than by its queer quotient. Before leaving New York I had asked a younger gay friend if he'd ever heard of Joni Mitchell, and he hadn't. He'd heard of some of her songs including "Both Sides Now," "The Circle Game," and "Help Me" -- but he didn't know that one woman had written them all. I tried to remember any specifically gay content in Joni's lyrics, and all I could recall was the David Geffen-inspired "Free Man in Paris," wandering down the Champs Elysees looking for "that very good friend of mine." Or possibly "Amelia" from the Hejira album, which had been written for some lesbians. Then, too, there's the fact that Joni has a drag impersonator in the amazing John Kelly, who sings her songs in his own voice at well-attended concerts in New York and Provincetown. Still, it was hard to think of Joni in the same league with Liza Minelli, Carol Channing, or Cher. Just then Michael handed me a white rose of my own and the orchestra started playing something I didn't recognize. Michael whispered in my ear, "Debussy's The Clouds. How appropriate!" A few minutes later, Joni herself ambled onto the stage wearing an elegant, albeit matronly, orange pants outfit that Lauren Bacall could plausibly have worn. Explaining that she'd be singing mostly torch songs from her newest album, she slid gently into a deeply felt rendition of "You're My Thrill." Some people in the audience, expecting more of her old songs, were visibly disappointed; some wouldn't return for the second act. Joni's singing exceeded my expectations. Her voice was stronger than it had sounded on her latest CD. Visually, she was no longer that saturnine young woman hunched over a guitar. She'd gained a few pounds and sang without her instrument, allowing Joni to lean back and roll languidly with the music and use her large, expressive hands to caress, implore, and cajole. Only when she spoke did she remind me of that awkward bohemian of yore. Her comments between songs were scripted and brief, and several times she giggled at the strangeness of the event. At times she looked like she would have preferred to be working quietly somewhere, but at others she seemed to lose herself in the music, beaming occasionally when a fan whistled or called out, "We love you, Joni!" To be sure, she was no Judy Garland gleefully baring her soul to her acolytes, but neither was she a neurotically withdrawn and totally teleprompted Barbra Streisand. She was, in short, as unfathomable and complex as ever. Was Joni, then, to be judged a Gay Goddess? I reminisced about listening to the song "Conversation" while having a hopeless crush on a straight boy in my Eastern Philosophy class. Then there was "Ladies of the Canyon," "filling my drawing book with lines," as I fell in love with a naked male model. I remembered going home for a miserable winter break in 1970 and listening to "River," Joni's famous anti-Christmas carol, and wanting a river of my own on which to skate away from suburbia. On balance, however, I think Joni Mitchell has been less a gay goddess than a pansexual John the Baptist who pre-paved the way for my coming out. It was as if I'd listened to her in the darkness of my closet but with the door cracked open just enough to hear. She had been important to me in that strange, pre-dawn period between thinking I was homosexual and knowing I was gay. Three years later--out, loud, and proud--my musical tastes had changed, and show tunes had replaced folk songs. In 1971 "Chicago" was a rock group, but by 1976 it was a musical by Kander and Ebb, and Joni Mitchell was no longer being played by me or by my new friends. Indeed, I had abandoned Joni even earlier than I'd admitted to Michael--not when her record sales were down but when her career was peaking. In fact, by the time Court and Spark came out in 1974, we were already going to discos, and Joni Mitchell was a singer for earnest straight people who didn't know how to dance. After the intermission, Joni returned to the stage in a metallic blue dress that would have been suitable for a trip on the Enterprise. Alarming as this was, a few minutes later she was singing her new interpretation of "Both Sides Now," and one's fears were allayed. Slowing down the tempo and letting the orchestra create an atmosphere of magic and mist, she chanted this poem of hard-earned ambivalence like a high priestess casting a spell. It emanated from her 57-year-old body as if she were channeling it on the spot, and I marveled at how she could have written it at the age of 22. Magnificently, she conveyed the pain of an artist facing old age, knowing that it can only end in surrender and darkness. "Both sides now," I meditated as she sang: how the fun of the 70's had twisted into the horror of the 80's. "I really don't know life at all," Joni repeated several times, getting quieter and quieter as if it were a mantra taking us to the point where consciousness empties into the void. A few moments later t he audience was leaping to its feet. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:05:25 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: The Times They are a Changin' Since this came up the other day, I thought I would post this: Twyla Tharp Answers Readers' Questions For Movin' Out, on which she collaborated with songwriter Billy Joel, Tharp won a Tony Award, Astaire Award, Drama League Award for Sustained Achievement in Musical Theatre, Drama Desk Award and Outer Critics Circle Award for Outstanding Choreography.She formed Twyla Tharp Dance (TTD), creating 80 pieces, including Nine Sinatra Songs and In the Upper Room. When TTD merged with American Ballet Theatre, she created over a dozen works. She also choreographed for Paris Opera Ballet, The Royal Ballet, New York City Ballet, Boston Ballet, Hubbard Street Dance, Martha Graham Company, and many others. Other Broadway credits include When We Were Very Young, The Catherine Wheel with David Byrne, and Singin' in the Rain. Tharp's film credits include: collaboration with Milos Forman on Hair, Ragtime and Amadeus; Taylor Hackford on White Nights and James Brooks on I'll Do Anything. Television credits include "Sue's Leg" for PBS's Dance in America; "Making Television Dance," winner of the Chicago International Film Festival Award and which she directed and co-produced; "The Catherine Wheel" for BBC-TV; and "Baryshnikov" by Tharp, which she co-directed and for which she won two Emmy Awards and the Director's Guild of America Award for Outstanding Director Achievement. She has published two books: Push Comes to Shove and The Creative Habit: earn It and Use It for Life. Tharp has received 17 honorary doctorates, the Vietnam Veterans of America President's Award, the 2004 National Medal of Arts and numerous grants, including the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Fellowship. She is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and an Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters. She continues to create, write and lecture. Tharp's next Broadway show, The Times They Are A-Changin,' starring Michael Arden, Thom Sesma and Caren Lyn Manuel, is a fresh exploration of the timeless tale of two generations at odds and a young man's coming of age, told through the classic songs of music icon Bob Dylan. The musical will open on October 26th at the Brooks Atkinson Theatre. Visit www.thetimestheyareachangin.com for more information. From Shaun: What do you hope people come away from the show saying? That it was thought-provoking. From Kim Coyle: Which was more of a challenge to choreograph, 'Movin' Out' or 'The Times They Are A-Changin'?' I am a huge fan of 'Movin' Out,' and I can't wait to see 'The Times.' They are both challenging, and thank you. From Jolene Chang: You've choreographed some of the best dancers in the world, such as Baryshnikov. How do you choreograph for people who are not primarily trained as dancers, such as Michael Arden and Thom Sesma? I choreograph for each person according to their strengths. From Bob: Were you a fan of Bob Dylan's? Has he seen the show yet himself or provided any input? Yes and yes. From Terri Taliaferro: What style(s) of dance will be featured in your new musical 'The Times They Are A-Changin'?' All! From: R.C.N. What do you most look for when casting your actors and dancers? Specifically, what drew you to Caren Lyn Manuel as your newest star? Commitment. Willingness to take a chance. From Matt Sherrod: This is your second musical using the work of an amazing artist. How do you choose the songs you use? And what's your strategy for connecting them into a story? P.S. how is it working with the amazing Michael Arden and Caren Lyn Manuel? I listen to the whole body of work and create an arc. They and the whole cast are fantastic. From Mitchell Collins: Who inspired you to become interested in dance? What were some of your favorite shows and dancers growing up? My family had a drive-in movie theatre in California and growing up, I saw all the movies now considered musical classics. From Michelle B.: Are there any classic shows that you'd like to take on and put your "stamp" on? No. From Steve Warren: Why do you think dance is considered so elite? Sometimes when I bring up the topic (your dance pieces, local NC dance company) and my love for dance I am stared at like I was an alien? (I am a straight, 47 year old white male that hails from Alabama who played football for over ten years and I have to fight for my right to go to dance performances!) I don't know. From Ken Munch: Do you feel you have more or less freedom when working with popular music that contains lyrics (that may or may not tell a specific story), as compared with a classical instrumental piece? It depends on what you want to do. From Jack B.: Do reviews matter to you? Of course. From Jamie A. Fuller: How do you stay "current" and up to date in the dance field? I just "do my thing." From John Waymire: What do you say to those critics who say 'Movin Out' and 'The Times They Are A-Changin' are not 'musicals'? What is a musical? From Briana W: No matter what format, a career in the arts is always very chancy. If you wanted to work in show business when you were younger, did you ever feel nervous about how risky it can be? Did that change your perspective on it, did you have a 'back-up' plan? No. I knew what I wanted to do. From Jamie JC: I was wondering, as a dancer, what has been the most important thing you have learned? Bodies change. From Blax: How was your experience working with Baryshnikov and how did he influence your current work? He was and is an amazing dancer. From Matt Sherrod: You seem to have a knack for making musicals using the songs of an amazing artist. When constructing a musical do you come up with the story first and then figure out which of the artist songs fit with the story, or do you choose certain songs and then try to create a story with them? Good question. Its a little bit of both actually. From Joseph Marrella: My question relates to your incredible staging. As someone who saw 'Movin' Out' 7 times, I was continually blown away with how you would build your staging to create an emotional impact. It took me a while to figure out why I was being moved the way I was. Finally, after trip 4, I realized that part of the reason was due to how you would use the ensemble to reinforce the story and emotion involved, without distracting from the main action at hand. I know that it is somewhat of a broad question, but how do achieve that balance? Also, on another note, can you speak a little bit about your collaborative process? Thank you very much for your time. I am looking forward to seeing 'The Time They Are A-Changin'! Thank you. Your first question is actually answered quite easily with two words: Counter Point. Your second question regarding collaboration  the process is dependent on those you are collaborating with. From Amy Doran: 1) How and at what age did you first learn to dance? 2) Given the chance, what play would you like to direct and why? The answer to your first question is another question--What do you call dance? For me, it was at a very young age. The answer to your second question is--I havent written it yet. Thanks for your questions. From Mica Spicka: Your choreography is so unique and interesting, what is your biggest inspiration? Good question. And the answer is a simple one: WORK  inspiration is not passive. Creativity is a habit, and the best creativity is the result of good work habits. From Elva: When did you realize for the very first time that the world of the arts, especially the art of movement, dance, would be your calling? Hi. That would have been upon graduating from college and realizing that graduate school was not for me. From Brent Marty: I have been a great admirer of your work ever since watching 'Hair' in high school! I'm glad to have this opportunity to get your thoughts on something. I am from Indiana, as I believe you are. Is your art, your style, informed at all by your roots here? If so, do you think that that is a universal truth - that all artists are linked inexorably to their past? Thank you for your time and for sharing your perspective! I am from Indiana  and my life is totally informed by my roots there. Yes  everyone is linked to their past. From Jill Fees: Many years ago I took some dance classes. Due to a lax teacher and bad experience I stopped, I lost the desire. I saw 'Movin' Out' on tour a few months ago and it floored me. Watching the dancers make everything look so effortless and joyful made me realize I was missing something and made me want to take dance classes again. I would like to thank you for your contributions to dance for all these years and for making a 40+ kid at heart remember what got me interested in the first place. I can't wait to go see 'The Times They Are A-Changin' when I visit New York. Many companies all over the world stage your past works. Do you ever look back at a piece and wish you had done something differently or that you could make changes to the original choreography? Or do you just keep moving forward and not look back? Thank you! Keep moving. And I do not look back to previous works. You keep moving forward. From Joey: From 'Sinatra Songs' to 'Movin' Out,' you have created dance/theater pieces from song catalogs and found a way to bring out the the deepest level of drama from within the songs. Can you describe the creative process that takes you from listener to dramatist? And by the way, everyone--Twyla Tharp's book 'The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life' just came out in paperback. Along with Julia Cameron's 'The Artist's Way,' it is a must-read for anyone who loves or values creativity. Thank you. A good question, and its a very complex and long one to answer simply . . . but it basically comes from the realization that there is enough in what you are hearing that will sustain excitement for literally thousands of listenings. From Kristine Sheppard: Do you feel if you hadnt found Michael Cavanaugh and Darren Holden to be piano men for 'Movin' Out,' that it may not have been a success? I saw it with both of them and then I saw understudies and it was a different show. No. Although both performers you mentioned were terrific, the success of Movin Out did not lie in their hands  there was an entire company of committed actor/dancers driving each and every show. From Patrick J: Which choreography is do you think more challenging- that of 'Movin' Out' or 'Times They Are a-Changin?' And how does it feel to work with such a talented person like Caren Lyn Manuel? Each shows choreography is different with its own unique challenges. The Times They Are A-Changin, which is primarily told through Dylans songs, is a totally different show than Movin Out, whose story was told through movement. Caren Lyn has empathy with the Dylan material and is terrific. From Andrew Linnie: Hi. I'd like to ask what inspired you most about Billy Joel's music? How was working with the performer? The characters in his songs. I enjoy working with performers. From Chris: What was going through your mind when you choreographed 'Movin' Out' and how did you come up with such a clever storyline for it? I can't wait to see 'The Times They Are a-Changin'!' I studied the cultural history of the time. Thank you! From Ed Panusko: What was your inspiration while doing the choreography for the film 'Hair.' I though it was brilliantly done. It was the first movie I worked on. Thank you! From Gvendo: What was most memorable for you about your work on the film of 'Hair? Seeing first-hand how movies are made. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:32:51 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell NJC Lori wrote: >Yes, there is. For those of you who don't >know how to find the archive, it's here: >http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni There is also a private (to JMDL members) searchable archive put together by the blood, sweat, and tears of a few list members: http://jmdl.com/archives Worth checking out. Lesbian... er... Les. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:48:26 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) Tell me about it....I make a brief comment about grammar and all of the sudden they're bringing out the boards and nails. Victor, amazed at how much can happen here in 24 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Em > I have some thoughts on this topic too, but new paranoia over my > cynicism and my bad grammar are preventing me from going on with my > post. > Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:50:48 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Worthless waste of time meets Joni II I wish that he were tonight It's so hard to obey His sad request of me to kindly stay away So this is how I hide the hurt, As the road leads cursed and charmed. I tell Amelia, It was a worthless waste of time... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:47:06 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Guess Who's Coming to UConn? Dear Joniamigos: I made a vow this semester to get out to more lectures and workshops and films and stuff (because, as we all know, life is for learning) and I was THRILLED to see this announcement in my inbox: "Howard Zinn - You Can't be Neutral on a Moving Train: Equality in America Sept 26 4:00 PM Student Union Ballroom Free and Open to the Public Howard Zinn is a legendary voice for social justice and equality in America. As a teacher, writer, and activist he has been a central figure in the most important social and political movements of recent history. His presentations speak to the future, not to the past, showing in vivid detail how small actions affect great change and how every person has the ability and the obligation to make a difference. Co-sponsored by the Womens Center, Rainbow Center, African American Cultural Center, Asian American Cultural Center & Puerto Rican Latin American Cultural Center (WRAAP); Womens Studies Program, The Institute for African American Studies, Institute for Puerto Rican and Latino Studies, Asian American Studies Institute, First Year Programs, and The Creative Writing Program" Oh, I am so lucky to work where I do. There's a wide world of noble causes, right outside my window. (NPIMH: ".... a rainbow on the wall Blue, red, green and gold to welcome you Crimson crystal beads to beckon Oh, won't you stay We'll put on the day There's a sun show every second..") Now the curtain opens back to the announcement.....I love this part: "....how small actions affect great change and how every person has the ability and the obligation to make a difference." I can't wait! And I'm going go early and bring my "give peace a vote" petition, too. One name at time, almost like saving Marianne's starfish. (Thanks for that, Mack. Beautiful concept, non?) "Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead Yeah. What she said! Love, Patti P., hoping this is not too political....but unfortunately social justice and equality and ending the war ("if you believe in justice, if you believe in freedom") is inextricably mired in politics....so what else can you do? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:55:46 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, here's one for Smurf! And guess who ELSE is coming to UConn? Smurf's old buddy. James McGreevey. LOL!!! As I walked into my building this morning a new professor/friend excitedly handed me a list of upcoming events/lectures/booksignings. My eyes immediately went to "Howard Zinn", and hers to "Cathy Sultan" (author of "A Beirut Heart: One Woman's War") *, and then my eyes scrolled down and I saw "James McGreevey" and I yelled his name right out loud and started laughing hysterically. My new friend was confused. "Oh. Do you like James McGreevey?" and I just couldn't explain. How *would* I? "Well, I'm on this internest discussion list...do you know Joni Mitchell?... she is queen undisputably of mind beauty....really, you *must* hear her....she paints too, and.....and there's this guy in Boston....his name is Smurf and he's *really* funny and he..." Ah, you just have to laugh, cuz it's all so crazy. She would think I'm nuts! But not you guys, right? You take me as I am. Stop laughing, Patti!!!! Stifle yourself! (Someone in the outer office just asked me what is so funny....."Is there something you'd like to share with the class, Miss Parlette?") Okay. Deep breath. I guess he has written a book, Smurf. He must think he's Kitty Wells! Here's the announcement: James McGreevey Time: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:30 AM Location: UConn Co-op In August 2004, Governor Jim McGreevey of New Jersey made history when he stepped before microphones, and declared, "My truth is that I am a gay American," and resigned his office. The story made international headlines, but what led to that moment was a human and political drama more complex and fascinating than anyone has yet revealed. Now, in his book The Confession, McGreevey himself tells the full story of his political rise and fall. Bring your lunch. We will have dessert. McGreeveys talk and booksigning are free, but please call 860-486-5027 to let us know you are coming (so we have enough dessert)." Smurf, why don't you come up to my UConn kitchen and give your old buddy his just deserts? Call me at the station. Love, Patti P. * Cathy Sultan is also the author of "Israeli and Palestinian Voices: A Dialogue with Both Sides" NPIMH: Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: JC on the wane (a few embedded Joni-questions!) Benedicte Nielsen wrote: "(which brings about the question: why all the gay people on this list? what is it about her??? Am glad not all gay people are into Kylie Minoque, thanks you guys (and of course you are not)!!)" Bene, I'll do my best to explain to you what's going on. You see, my dear, there are NO gay people on this list at all. ALL gay peoples' posts on this list come from one source - a 42 y.o. housewife from Zurich named Blixa. In fact, there are only 2 REAL humans on this list - Mr. Muller and Les. ALL the other's, including myself, are Blixa. Mr. Muller and Les have NO idea whatsoever that for YEARS now they've been posting to and receiving posts from ONE source only - Blixa from Zurich. Blixa herself has NO interest whatsoever in Joni and is in fact a HUGE Kylie fan. So there. Nuri - --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:17:30 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: njc, here's one for Smurf! Speaking of Smurf, Paz and I have incriminating evidence that he was stalking us at the Kennedy Center in disguise. Photos will be revealed soon. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:49:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Guess Who's Coming to UConn? <"Howard Zinn - You Can't be Neutral on a Moving Train: Equality in America > I saw the Howard Zinn documentary of the same title on DVD and was totally engaged. Howard speaks in such common sense language and has been a big part of the Progressive movement in the US for a LONG time. He also served as a decorated Veteran. I highly recommend the film and his written work as well. Bob NP: Cream, "Badge (Live)" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #342 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------