From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #332 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 12 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 332 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: My Dead Angel (2) njc [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: My Dead Angel (1) njc [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: oh my gawd.... some joni content [Garret ] RE : NJC Re: college radio, some Joni content [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Modern Times njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Lori Fy] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! [Brenda Subject: Re: My Dead Angel (2) njc Laura wrote: Nuri wrote: "The walls of every street in Jerusalem are covered with thousands of posters signed by the leaders of the Orthodox. Here's exactly what's written on them (I translated it to English): "We order all members of our holy community to hurt and attack every gay man and woman in the parade. A reward of 20000 Shekels would be given to anyone who hurts or kills one of the gay men and women from Sodom. We advice our sacred defenders to use home made bombs, knives, bricks, and sticks with nails". "Wow Nuri, Insanity. They are probably all going to go to heaven and find out that Jesus is gay... which of course for them would seem like hell." No, my dear, they are going to die, be buried in the graveyard, no heaven, no hell, and finito la comedia. Nuri - --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: My Dead Angel (1) njc Lori wrote: "I've always wondered, and now I wonder even more: why does anyone want to live there?" Dearest Lori, It's like wondering why a captive or a prisoner doesn't simply open the doors and walk out. Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:46:51 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: oh my gawd.... some joni content can you imagine that lineup in Three Sisters?? I think you have just ensured that i will not have a prodcutive day in work Mike;-) I've read three sisters, never seen it. It's fringe time in Dublin which means that i'll be seeing a lot of dodgy theatre over the next few weeks. Woo-hoo! GARRET On 9/11/06, mike pritchard wrote: > > > > >>Harold Pinter is performing Krapp's Last Tape at the Royal Court in London > for a couple of weeks in ocotber...... and it is sold out!!!! The idea of > Pinter playing Krapp is very very exciting to me. I saw John Hurt doing it > during the beckett centenary celebrations earlier this year here in Dublin > and that was great. But Pinter. I mean<< > > > > so what is next on your wish list, Garrett: Chekhov's Three Sisters, played > by Ani di Franco, Joni Mitchell and Patti Smith as Olga, Masha and Irina, > respectively? Andrei to be played by Doctor Jack from 'Lost'? Hee Hee. > > > > mike in bcn > > npimh  Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep  anyone seen Breakfast on Pluto? > > > PS what's with the new e-mail address. Shall I use it instead of the old > one? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:22:16 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE : NJC Re: college radio, some Joni content Maybe we can get a Vietnamese version of BSN from your collection?> Vienamese? That may be one language I don't have it in. Howzabout the Khmer-language (Cambodian) version? Cool - "Wrapped in Grey" is beautiful - "Rook" is my fave from that record but it's all good. Two thumbs up for spreading the good word on Andy & Colin, and they've been teasing us with the prospects of some new work (finally!). Don't be nervous, you'll do great. Bob NP: Joni, "Amelia" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:50:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Modern Times njc I've not heard Street Legal - I LOVE "Desire" (such a unique sound for him with that Scarlet Rivera fiddle all over it), so I need to check it out. And I have to correct myself...I called his album "No Mercy" when I should have said "Oh Mercy". D'oh! (Sidebar to Brenda - I did pick up MeShell's "Plantation Lullabies" - on ebay - for a penny.) Bob NP: Tom Petty, "Saving Grace" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" When private screenings were held for conservative leaders who could spread the word on their websites, I think their intent was clear. So to call others who protest truth of its content complaining in response is unfair. One of the most popular sites on the web is The Huffington Post. They couldn't get even a DVD with scenes on it. The original publicity material singularly claimed the drama was "based on the 9/11 Commission Report." When the facts of the series were challenged, that changed to "It is a dramatization, drawn from a variety of sources including the 9/11 Commission Report, other published materials, and personal interviews. As suchfor dramatic and narrative purposes, the movie contains fictionalized scenes-composite and representative characters and dialogueand time compression." I guess in this era of entertainment it is illogical to ask why anyone would produce a fictionalized account of such a historical event to broadcast on its fifth anniversary. Personally, I was watching Ted Koeppel on another channel. Those days at ABC are long gone. Jerry Brenda wrote: > The thing is we can't know what the intent of the publicity team was by > who it went to any more than they could control what people would say > about it once they got it. Conservative media, like Rush Limbaugh > delivers numbers which could have been the sole intent of the PR team. > As for why Albright didn't get it, again we don't know who else is > portrayed in it who didn't receive a copy. It may "go to" intent but it > doesn't prove it. This thing became a firestorm that they were not > prepared for clearly in terms of responding. But if there was intent to > shield all Democrats from seeing it, then the Democrats on the > commission wouldn't have seen it either but they did. > B > > Gerald A. Notaro wrote: >> Weel, my comment never said it wasn't sent to others, just that it was >> strange that so many were distributed and targeted to conservatives, >> when >> even Madeline Albright couldn't get one when she personally requested >> one. >> It certainly goes to intent, and makes the protest from her and other >> from >> the Clinton administration reasonable. >> >> Jerry >> >> Brenda wrote: >> >>> I'm not at all doubting the skill of reporters but that review was up >>> within a day of the story breaking. And one can't deny the benefit of >>> actually having someone write a review. That's exactly what publicists >>> are paid to do. So unless they were counting on this controversy to >>> drive numbers, to me it rings false that ABC wouldn't have pursued >>> reviews, even if Albright didn't get a copy and certain right wing >>> media >>> outlets were marketed to strongly. >>> >>> B >>> >>> notaro@stpt.usf.edu wrote: >>> >>>> I'm sure those DVD's got around. They were a very hot property. >>>> Reporters >>>> can get their hands on anything, and quickly, as they have >>>> demonstrated >>>> over the years. >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Jerry Notaro wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ABC provided 900 DVDs of the film to conservatives, while Clinton >>>>>> administration officials and objective reviewers from mainstream >>>>>> outlets >>>>>> were denied them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Then how did someone from the Hollywood Reporter manage to review it >>>>> on >>>>> Thursday? >>>>> Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:17:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Brenda wrote: > I guess we just disagree that this makes a difference. To me, once the > actors were hired, it ceased being fact and became a dramatic work. And we don't disagree. But it must be pointed out that ABC and the show's creators marketed it as factual. That is when it becomes fair game for criticism. And > it's not called "The 9/11 Commission Report." The Commission is not > named in the title. No. But the publicity claimed it was based on the 9/11 Commission. > And please note that Keitel says, "when he got the script." Scripts are > called all sorts of things and I don't put it beyond the producers (not > ABC) to use ABC's name once they got a commitment and to call it > something they deem advantageous when it came to raising funds for the > production. At the end of the day, as an average viewer I can only look > at what is presented to me. I can choose to fore go speculation on > things I can't know like someone's intent or all the different > iterations of the project as it moved from idea to initial script to > shooting script through all of the various edits to the final broadcast. So when you choose to read a book, you don't care whether it is fact or fiction until you are finished? That sounds a bit naive. As a librarian and teacher I have spent years trying to teach students to look for the difference. This is a clear example of violation of that. Why say something is based on a historical document and then change the facts? That has been my only point all along. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:06:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" I hear that nonsensical line from both parties, and I have no idea what they're talking about. As if the Iraqi's are threatening to attack us? The terrorists were all Saudis and one Egyptian. We have much bigger threats in the USA besides terrorism; smoking, traffic, alcohol, guns just to name a few that cause over 500,000 deaths here every year, and yet 9/11 "changed everything forever". I'll bet the parents of kids who were killed at Columbine would say that that event changed things for them much more so than 9/11. Besides, it seems to me that the more we involve ourselves in Middle East conflicts, the less resources we have to provide for our own defense. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Had Me A Girl" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:09:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Modern Times njc maybe it could be called "D'oh Mercy". ;) Em ps: Scarlet R, had an album out at the time too, was pretty neat, I used to have it. I bet my ex still has it. "Street Legal" has a lot of fiddle too, not sure if it was Scarlet...thinking "not", cuz he also had that young man playing with him, with the angel hair..I forget his name, who could play like a million instruments, maybe he was on violin for Street Legal...gotta go look. OK I just checked - yep that was David Mansfield on the violin. While its violin heavy, its diff from the dramatic Scarlet swooping.... and I was just looking at the track listing....SL is DEF. good. - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > neat. I still listen to it.> > > I've not heard Street Legal - I LOVE "Desire" (such a unique sound > for him > with that Scarlet Rivera fiddle all over it), so I need to check it > out. > And I have to correct myself...I called his album "No Mercy" when I > should > have said "Oh Mercy". D'oh! > > (Sidebar to Brenda - I did pick up MeShell's "Plantation Lullabies" - > on > ebay - for a penny.) > > Bob > > NP: Tom Petty, "Saving Grace" > > > > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:39:37 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Lori wrote: Someone has to remind people that this war isn't a movie or a video game. Hi Lori, Yes, I hope they throw away their cross tops, take one Black Sabbath pill and have a wake up call in the mourning to the reality of the war pigs. Love, Laura War Pigs Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of deaths construction In the fields the bodies burning As the war machine keeps turning Death and hatred to mankind Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah! Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah! Now in darkness, world stops turning As the war machine keeps burning No more war pigs of the power Hand of God has struck the hour Day of judgement, God is calling On their knees, the war pigs crawling Begging mercy for their sins Satan, laughing, spreads his wings All right now! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:44:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" >No, no, no, have you flown in a commercial airline since 9/11 and gone through the extensive security protocol? We are definitely safer as far as screening airline passengers than we were 9/10/01.< Not according to the 911 Commission Report which rated our present airport security very low. I'm presuming you know this now if you watched the second part of the docudrama. I watched it & it reminded me of why I dislike docudramas. It was very partisan, especially concerning what was omitted. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:46:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! >Who are you addressing Andeemac? Debra wrote this and I hardly think she has a "typical Republican viewpoint." Brenda< To add to that, if I were Debra or any of the other NYC residents who experienced this first hand, I'd avoid watching this show. Who needs to watch someone's recreation of a horror they actually experienced. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:09:46 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Andee wrote: >> Did you know that F15's fly around Washington 24 hours a day , so how did >> the plane hit the Pentagon, this is a very good question?? dont you think. Kakki replied: > Yes, that is what I grew up presuming and I wondered that exact same thing > when received an early morning phone call 9/11/01 telling me of these planes > going into buildings. I sought out the answers and found them. They are > out there but too long to go into here. If you want and I have some time, I > will be happy to discuss it with you privately. Hey, no fair! Kakki, if you do find you have the time, please share your answers with all of us. In the meantime, here's one that I found. No, you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but I've heard this one over and over ... http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911stand.html Since I was living in the Washington DC metro area on 9/11 and personally saw fighter jets flying overhead almost immediately after the attacks, I have to presume they were available and the pilots could have done their job PRIOR to the attacks. But they did not. Why? Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:10:14 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" >But F-9/11 was more on point as far as subject matter and was systematically refuted as a pack of B.S. and ludicrous lies afterward by numerous people both on the left and right.. I took a lot of flack for criticizing it without seeing it but I'd already seen more than enough of Mr. Moore's works over the years to be make what I thought was a fully justifiable decision. Kakki< You ought to see it if you are going to continue to comment on it. Why not have an open mind & then decide whether it is a pack of BS. I'm always amazed at this reaction from people who haven't seen it. There is much truth in this film, whether or not you agree with Moore and in the end, it is a very personal & tragic story (not Moore's) that deserves to be told. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:13:51 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: My Dead Angel (1) njc I wrote, about Israel: >> I've always wondered, and now I wonder even more: why does anyone want to live there? Nuri replied: > Dearest Lori, > > It's like wondering why a captive or a prisoner doesn't simply open the doors and walk out. Thank you for your response, Nuri. However, I don't wonder why someone who is locked in a room or a cell doesn't escape. Does Israel have locked borders that prevent a person from leaving? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:21:02 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" > We have much bigger threats in the USA besides terrorism; smoking, > traffic, alcohol, guns just to name a few that cause over 500,000 deaths > here every year, and yet 9/11 "changed everything forever". I'll bet the > parents of kids who were killed at Columbine would say that that event > changed things for them much more so than 9/11. > Besides, it seems to me that the more we involve ourselves in Middle East > conflicts, the less resources we have to provide for our own defense. That's one of the most sensible things I've read in awhile. Bob for President!! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:35:18 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Laura wrote: > Yes, I hope they throw away their cross tops, take one Black > Sabbath pill and have a wake up call in the mourning to the > reality of the war pigs. Thanks for those lyrics, Laura. Here's something else that's been shared before but is due again ... From a page on Jonatha Brooke's website ( http://www.jonathabrooke.com/music/plumb-tracks.php?track=06), Jonatha's note: "Written shortly after the first Gulf war. I'll stand by the feeling today. War is horrible and we have become too insulated from its realities." "War" - Jonatha Brooke Every morning I get up and I watch the war, watch the war And every morning it upstages all my favorite shows "Donahue," "Hogan's Heroes." It's the American way, the new world order We hold these truths to be self-evident In the American day, you must give and I shall take And I will tell you what is moral and what's just Because I want, because I will, because I can So will I kill Every morning I get up and I raise the flag Salute the monument of those who gave their lives And I guess war's ok, it's just a little inconvenient But it's better than a video-game, it's better than the movies It's the American way, the new world order We hold these truths to be self-evident In the American day, you must give and I shall take And I will tell you what is moral and what's just Because I want, because I will, because I can So will I kill Every morning I get up and I watch the war, watch the war, watch the war And every morning it upstages everything I know It's the American way, the new world order We hold these truths to be self-evident In the American day, you must give and I shall take And I will tell you what is moral and what's just Because I want, because I will, because I can So will I Because I want, because I will, because I can So will I, (Oh, say can you see) Because I want, because I will, because I can So will I _______________ Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:47:31 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Gerald A. Notaro wrote: > So when you choose to read a book, you don't care whether it is fact or > fiction until you are finished? That sounds a bit naive. Of course I do. But the book I read is a final edit. It's not one of the drafts where it may have had a different title. And I knew going in that "The Path to 9/11" was fiction because there are actors in it! That alone tells me it is not a documentary. Never mind the card that appears at the beginning and over and over again throughout it. Or it being called a docudrama on August 11 by the producers. And let's face it, documentaries aren't truth either. They are merely one representation of facts. But this program never claimed to be a documentary. > When private screenings were held for conservative leaders who could > spread the word on their websites, I think their intent was clear. So to > call others who protest truth of its content complaining in response is > unfair. One of the most popular sites on the web is The Huffington Post. > They couldn't get even a DVD with scenes on it. The original publicity > material singularly claimed the drama was "based on the 9/11 Commission > Report." When the facts of the series were challenged, that changed to "It > is a dramatization, drawn from a variety of sources including the 9/11 > Commission Report, other published materials, and personal interviews. As > suchfor dramatic and narrative purposes, the movie contains fictionalized > scenes-composite and representative characters and dialogueand time > compression." I guess in this era of entertainment it is illogical to ask > why anyone would produce a fictionalized account of such a historical > event to broadcast on its fifth anniversary. Personally, I was watching > Ted Koeppel on another channel. Those days at ABC are long gone. > Jerry, I haven't seen the original publicity materials. Have you? If you want to share them with me then I'm happy to have a discussion with you about them. I also didn't see any of the ads so I don't feel that I am in a position to comment on how it was marketed, particularly not based on someone else's opinion about how it was marketed. I like to see things for myself. If you have then you may feel differently. I can tell you that if you look at the blog for the program, it was posted on August 11 that this is a docudrama. You'll find it here if you scroll all the way to the bottom. http://blogs.abc.com/thepathto911/ August 11. Long before any of us here even started talking about it or before there were any breaking national news stories of the facts being challenged. You'll also find repeated comments from the director that it is not a documentary. You'll also learn that the long legend with the dramatization language was included in it sometime before September 1, again this is also before the controversy erupted. It's also at least a week before Albright and Berger sent their letter to Thomas Kean and four days before Albright wrote Robert Iger. You might also be interested to know that the LA Times reported that there was a screening on August 23 at the National Press Club for 200 people including Kean, the producers, other members of the 9/11 Commission including its press secretary and family members of victims. They only screened the first night (understandably since it is five hours) but gave away copies of the whole thing. Doesn't it seem possible that if people didn't watch the rest that they spoke prematurely about the whole enterprise? Frankly I don't care that the Huffington Post was denied access to anything. When they posted and Ariana herself defended that heinous depiction of Joe Lieberman in black face, the site lost all credibility with me as even approaching a legitimate news outlet, which it is not. It is a popular website that publishes opinions and responses to them. And before anyone jumps, that is not a defense of Lieberman. I simply found the image and Ariana's support of it reprehensible and it made me question her judgment. Especially after I was one of a smattering of under fifty people who stood out in the sun on a hot day to hear her talk in her campaign for governor. By the way, it didn't go unnoticed by me that not a single person here made a comment about that photo. You and I will continually disagree on what is fair or unfair. When someone has not seen something and yet they register a complaint about that something to the extent that they want to block it's distribution that to me is unfair. And in my view that applies to this film, the Reagan biopic, any of Michael Moore's films, any of Oliver Stone's films, etc. What I find really interesting after watching the whole thing is that no one has commented on the OPPORTUNITY that it represents for the Democrats. Not in talking about how it was marketed, but in talking about what the current administration has failed to do. Where are the politicians who will run as reformers with the intent to break the stranglehold that bureaucracy has on our government's ability to be effective? That was the message that I took away from it. Not anything having to do with fault or blame. In retrospect after watching all of it, I think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion by both sides. I hope the media moves on to more important issues. I intend to. Brenda n.p.: Ray Charles - "Every Saturday Night" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) From: MattJones Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #259 Hello All! During my rummaging through this and that reference book, I ran across an interesting entry: A Thematic Catalogue of all Joni's works compiled by David Burger, with some affiliation with Queens College/ CUNY. I have been searching all morning and have found only one possible lead. This thematic catalogue is listed as a manuscript, meaning it has not been published. However, I would of course like to see this thing. So, this is kind of an all call. If anyone knows anything about this, please respond to me personaly. Further, if Mr. Burger is part of the JMDL, PLEASE!!!!!!!! contact me ASAP. Thanks, happy listening... MJ rats live on no evil star Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:52:05 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! Kate Bennett wrote: >> Who are you addressing Andeemac? Debra wrote this and I hardly think >> > she has a "typical Republican viewpoint." > Brenda< > > To add to that, if I were Debra or any of the other NYC residents who > experienced this first hand, I'd avoid watching this show. Who needs to > watch someone's recreation of a horror they actually experienced. > It's funny Kate because a friend of mine in NY who emerged from that scene covered in dust watched both parts and though he was rattled, he was glad that he did. (He's a Democrat. If that matters. It seems it does.) Brenda n.p.: Ray - "Come Live with Me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:03:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! Interesting, not sure I'd be able to watch it if I'd gone through it (but I'm not one of those people who could be a nurse or a doctor or an EMT either). Curious to why you think it relates to his (or someone's) political party. It rattled me to watch the airline portions because we'd flown AA from Logan to LA the week prior to 911. I really don't like flying much anyway. >It's funny Kate because a friend of mine in NY who emerged from that scene covered in dust watched both parts and though he was rattled, he was glad that he did. (He's a Democrat. If that matters. It seems it does.) Brenda n.p.: Ray - "Come Live with Me"< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:04:27 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Kakki: >> No, no, no, have you flown in a commercial airline since 9/11 and gone >> through the extensive security protocol? We are definitely safer as far as >> screening airline passengers than we were 9/10/01. Kate: > Not according to the 911 Commission Report which rated our present airport > security very low. I'm presuming you know this now if you watched the > second part of the docudrama. I meant to respond to Kakki's comment yesterday. Airport security is a joke. I've flown in a commercial airliner a number of times since 9/11, and the "security protocol" is mostly a nonsensical charade that seems to have been designed to make the sheeple feel better. Case #1: In August 2005, my partner Mary and I flew from National Airport in DC to Hawaii. Unbeknownst to us, Mary had a full-sized pair of scissors at the bottom of her carry-on bag. The scissors were discovered (and confiscated, with a bit of joking and laughter on the part of the security guard) as we left the airport in Kailua Kona. Case #2: In May 2006, I flew from Baltimore International to Oakland. In my possession were two expensive pool cues, each unscrewed in half, stored together in a nice case. I also carried a cheap violin in its case. Security would not allow me to bring the pool cues as carry on luggage -- I had to check them. Although they wouldn't tell me why, my guess is that they can be used as weapons. Hm. I can't imagine using a $1,000 cue as a weapon unless a Flight 93 scenario is happening (and then you can bet your a$$ I'd use it that way), but okay. However, I was allowed to bring the violin into the cabin. HM. I'm pretty darned sure that I could use the bow as a weapon, whether it be to thwack someone over the head, poke out an eye with the end, or remove the strings to garrote someone. For that matter, I could use the violin itself as a weapon. Just about anything can be used as a weapon if necessary. The whole thing is a joke. Removing my sandals to have them x-rayed is a joke. Anyone could make it through security with stuff to hijack an airplane. Can plastique be sensed by a metal detector? I don't feel any safer than I did before 9/11. I'm glad if some of you do, but ... you're not. I still fly, because when my number is up, it's up. No amount of preparation is going to change my number. That's life, and that's death. Every day you wake up, you pays your nickel and you takes your chances. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:02:05 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Lori Fye wrote: > Hey, no fair! Kakki, if you do find you have the time, please share your > answers with all of us. > > In the meantime, here's one that I found. No, you can't believe everything > you read on the internet, but I've heard this one over and over ... > > http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911stand.html > > Since I was living in the Washington DC metro area on 9/11 and personally > saw fighter jets flying overhead almost immediately after the attacks, I > have to presume they were available and the pilots could have done their job > PRIOR to the attacks. But they did not. Why? > Lori, I noticed that you posted a link to Loose Change recently. In the spirit of engaging more than one view, I suggest that people also visit these two sites: http://www.911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/index.html http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ I've emailed friends about Loose Change but also added some opposing opinions with that link. Brenda n.p.: Ray - "The Long and Winding Road" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:09:36 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Kate Bennett wrote: > I watched it & it reminded me of why I dislike docudramas. It was very > partisan, especially concerning what was omitted. > Kate, did you see the way they made Condi Rice look as though she was a dumbfounded neophyte? That is partisan? Of all the people portrayed in this thing, I think she looks the worst because when we first meet her she is dismissive of the story's "hero" and then when the crisis happens she's practically frozen. I'll say this, I don't envy anyone, no matter what their political affiliation, who has to make the kinds of decisions administrations have to make in those intense crisis situations. I'll stick with music. B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:11:13 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" > Lori, I noticed that you posted a link to Loose Change recently. In the > spirit of engaging more than one view, I suggest that people also visit > these two sites: > > http://www.911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/index.html > http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ > > I've emailed friends about Loose Change but also added some opposing > opinions with that link. Thank you for those links, Brenda. I will check them out tonight. (I'm at work now and spending way too much time not working ...) : ) Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:12:09 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" > You and I will continually disagree on what is fair or unfair. And that is where it will end with me. I've said what I have had to say. It's time to move on. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:12:57 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! Political party seems to matter to the discussion of this film here. That was my point. And yes as someone who has racked up six digit frequent flyer mile accounts annually, I always find things related to airline security difficult to watch. B Kate Bennett wrote: > > Interesting, not sure I'd be able to watch it if I'd gone through it > (but I'm not one of those people who could be a nurse or a doctor or > an EMT either). Curious to why you think it relates to his (or > someone's) political party. It rattled me to watch the airline > portions because we'd flown AA from Logan to LA the week prior to 911. > I really don't like flying much anyway. > > >It's funny Kate because a friend of mine in NY who emerged from that > scene covered in dust watched both parts and though he was rattled, he > was glad that he did. (He's a Democrat. If that matters. It seems > it does.) > Brenda > n.p.: Ray - "Come Live with Me"< > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/446 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:27 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Kate Bennett wrote: > You ought to see it if you are going to continue to comment on it. Why not > have an open mind & then decide whether it is a pack of BS. I'm always > amazed at this reaction from people who haven't seen it. There is much > truth in this film, whether or not you agree with Moore and in the end, it > is a very personal & tragic story (not Moore's) that deserves to be told. > Kakki, I agree with Kate. You should see it. And you can't use the principle of not wanting to support Michael Moore's commercial enterprise as it is available at public libraries, including the LAPL. B n.p. Ray - "Let The Good Times Roll" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:29:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Thanks Lori - I guess I need to say "If nominated I will not run...if elected I will not serve". :~) Like an atheist could run for President anyway? Oh, and speaking about those F-15 fighter jets - I would highly recommend reading the latest Vanity Fair (Kate Moss on the cover) that features the transcript of the tapes from the NEADS (Northeast Defense Sector) HQ on 9/11. Like Kakki said, VF has become heavily anti-Bush but this is a riveting unbiased read and it sort of dovetails with what I said about our state of preparedness (or lack thereof). The radar that NEADS was depending on was less than reliable (they have since been upgraded), and though the office may have been fully staffed there was a lot of "water cooler" chatter going on. Add to that there was a scheduled emergency drill, and when the planes hit the towers it was mass confusion. Was the drill starting early? Which Flight number? NEADS didn't even know the whereabouts of Flight 93 until it crashed. If the whole 9/11 thing was a staged conspiracy, these folks were not in on it - you can really sense the panic & emotion of the moment. Bob NP: Joni, "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:33:32 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Jerry Notaro wrote: >> You and I will continually disagree on what is fair or unfair. >> > > And that is where it will end with me. I've said what I have had to say. > It's time to move on. > > Jerry > On that we agree. I hope that you found some value in the debate as I surely did. B p.s. I didn't know you were a librarian Jerry. I love all librarians sight unseen. My friends have grown quite weary of me asking them if they have a card, bugging them until they get one and then riding them about when they last patronized their local library. Libraries changed my life and I have a thing about visiting a library in every city or town that I travel to. Seattle, Kansas City and the Eldredge Library in Chatham, MA are among my favorites. It's only recently that I started photographing them; I wish I had begun that sooner. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:35:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC Are you going to watch Both parts of the ABC 9/11 FICTIONAL DRAMA!!! >Political party seems to matter to the discussion of this film here. That was my point. < Oh yes, I see. And agree. >And yes as someone who has racked up six digit frequent flyer mile accounts annually, I always find things related to airline security difficult to watch. B< I find the thought of taking a trains or car & even a boat (to Europe) much more appealing these days. We flew out of NY to LA a few months after 911 with our guitar gear which includes wire clippers & lots of metal strings, etc. We'd forgotten to take them out of the carryon & discovered later that they let them through. This was before the change over of security however. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:41:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" I think I expected her to look worse than she actually was portrayed (given the preshow gossip & publicity)- I also expected her to have more 'on screen' time. The first time I recall she was onscreen was when she demoted Clarke (who by the way was a very realistic portrayal- as to mannerisms etc imo) Was there a scene I am forgetting with O'Neil? Honestly, I didn't feel that the frozenness of Rice or Cheney was anything other than showing their humanity. I can't criticize them on that. I agree that that kind of intense crisis decision making is something I'd not wish on anyone. >Kate, did you see the way they made Condi Rice look as though she was a dumbfounded neophyte? That is partisan? Of all the people portrayed in this thing, I think she looks the worst because when we first meet her she is dismissive of the story's "hero" and then when the crisis happens she's practically frozen. I'll say this, I don't envy anyone, no matter what their political affiliation, who has to make the kinds of decisions administrations have to make in those intense crisis situations. I'll stick with music. B< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:45:22 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" > The radar that NEADS was depending on was less than reliable (they have > since been upgraded), Not much has changed since my days in radar maintenance. Radar systems have always been difficult to maintain -- the transmitters and receivers fluctuate pretty much constantly -- and, like computers, as soon as a new one is unveiled something better has been invented to take its place, or to jam it. > and though the office may have been fully staffed > there was a lot of "water cooler" chatter going on. That's nothing ususual. There's always a lot of that type of chatter going on. That's not a put-down, it's just the nature of human beings when they gather, whether it's at a picnic or at work, even if that work includes being a civilian air traffic controller or being in the military. > Add to that there was > a scheduled emergency drill, and when the planes hit the towers it was > mass confusion. Was the drill starting early? Which Flight number? NEADS > didn't even know the whereabouts of Flight 93 until it crashed. If the > whole 9/11 thing was a staged conspiracy, these folks were not in on it - > you can really sense the panic & emotion of the moment. Again, this isn't meant to be a put-down, but as someone who spent 10+ years in the military -- in the Air Force, and in a "smart" job at that -- I know first hand that there is typically a lot more confusion than most civilians would ever care to know. Like I said ... you may think you're safer ... but you're not. As for NEADS not being in on the conspiracy, of course they weren't. If there was a conspiracy, it would have started (and stayed) much farther up the chain of command (think Cheney, if you can stand to consider His Evilness for a second). Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:53:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Or as Ani says: "Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right". Speaking of Ani, if you (meaning any of you) haven't heard Ani's brilliant 9/11 piece titled "Self-Evident", you can hear it and follow along with the words at: http://www.peace-not-war.org/Music/AniDiFranco/ Bob NP: Joni, "Little Green" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:50:06 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) we "Don't Need No More Lies!" -- but we need MORE LIBRARIES!! Brenda wrote: > p.s. I didn't know you were a librarian Jerry. I love all librarians > sight unseen. My friends have grown quite weary of me asking them if > they have a card, bugging them until they get one and then riding them > about when they last patronized their local library. Libraries changed > my life and I have a thing about visiting a library in every city or > town that I travel to. Well now, there's something that probably most of us can agree on! I, too, love libraries and have made it a point to get a library card as soon as I move to a new place. (I've lived a lot of places, and I have a lot of cards.) Since moving to CA, I've gotten a San Francisco card and a Sonoma County card, and I use them both. Libraries ROCK. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #332 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------