From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #329 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 11 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 329 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: My Dead Angel njc [Nuriel Tobias ] Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" [Andeemac2006 ] neil jordan's films (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re:Modern Times [PassScribe@aol.com] RE: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Jenny Goodspeed" ] Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" [Andeemac2006 ] Re: (NJC) "Why Mommy is a Democrat" ["Lori Fye" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow [Victor Johnson ] Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Subject: njc, "No More Lies!" [Victor Johnson ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" ["Jenny Goodspeed" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: My Dead Angel njc Randy Remote wrote: "What does the government have to say?" After the religious leaders "adviced" the police to "decide" that "undoubtedly a blood bath is on it's way", while each and every party "had no choice but to sadly agree" the government said "oy-vey" and canceled the damn parade, Randy. It's as if a murderer would tell the police that he fears that he'd simply have to kill you and that the best thing to do in order to prevent HIM from murdering you would be to kindly ask THE POLICE to murder you. "Is it legal to circulate these posters?" Nothing, i repeat, nothing that happens in this country is legal. Nuri - --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 03:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Well my short answer to this "Work of Fiction" that a presenter Called it on the ABC news after part 1 on Sunday I mean its a work of fiction now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, how lame is this, there already contemplating being sued!!! We shall see if Clinton or anybody else sues ABC after some heavyweight letters to the Heads of ABC over the last 3 days. ABC have been used by the GOP to promote Candidates for the up and coming Elections in November, the GOP dont care about fall out for ABC or Disney, they have been used, and it amazes me. I wonder what Steve Jobs thinks about all of this, as he is on the Board of Disney and Apple which has Al Gore on it as well ???????? You cant help think that ABC has been used for all the wrong reasons. We shall see wont we??? There again the GOP control the Supreme court dont they, what times we live in. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:00:44 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Ande wrote: > Well my short answer to this "Work of Fiction" that a presenter Called it > on the ABC news after part 1 > on Sunday > I mean its a work of fiction now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, how lame is this, there > already contemplating being sued!!! It is a dramatic account of events, but the events actually happened. Millions heard reports of the events in all media throughout the time period. I am amazed at people who say this is all lies. Didn't they see or hear about these events during the time? Islamic terrorists didn't bomb our buildings and installations and were not caught plotting other bombings during the time period? > We shall see if Clinton or anybody else sues ABC after some heavyweight > letters to the Heads of ABC over the last 3 days. I am really hoping Clinton or someone else sues. I would love to see all their allegations, evidence and defenses out out there. I also would love to see ABC's evidence, back-up and defenses. The witness testimony and documentation would be a must see. Of course, if there is a lawsuit, the proceedings will probably be well hidden from public view, or at least those portions that some people don't want to see or hear about. > ABC have been used by the GOP to promote Candidates for the up and coming > Elections in November, the GOP dont care about fall out for ABC or Disney, > they >have been used, and it amazes me. I wonder what Steve Jobs thinks > about all of this, as he is on the Board of Disney and Apple which has Al > Gore on it as >well ???????? I think Brenda made an excellent point the other day. Because of when 9/11 happened, any programs about it are always going to occur near an election date. It's just the way it happened, not something the GOP contrived. Plus, what are you going to say tomorrow when Bush gets his turn? If Bush gets slammed (which I've heard happens), what is the hidden GOP agenda in that? > You cant help think that ABC has been used for all the wrong reasons. We > shall see wont we??? For presenting a chronology of events leading up to 9/11? Lots of people are interested in learning about this. I found that it did follow a lot of the 9/11 commission report. > There again the GOP control the Supreme court dont they, what times we > live in. Are you referring to a potential lawsuit? If it is found that it is a lie and defames Clinton or anyone else, it is very doubtful that it would ever reach the Supreme Court. I think the only thing that court could hear would be whether First Amendment rights were violated. ABC was not ultimately restrained from showing the series so those rights are not in question here. I think most people give a rats ass about Clinton or Bush and what they did or did not do. What they are more concerned about is that we learn more of the nature of the ongoing threat against us and how we can make changes to avoid future attacks, large or small. I have always said that it is absolutely ridiculous to blame any one president for the problem. We are ALL collectively to blame, if anyone is to blame, for being complacent, or uneducated, or oblivious at the threat and attacks from these enemies for the past nearly 30 years. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:02:36 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: oh my gawd.... some joni content >>Harold Pinter is performing Krapp's Last Tape at the Royal Court in London for a couple of weeks in ocotber...... and it is sold out!!!! ..The idea of Pinter playing Krapp is very very exciting to me. I saw John Hurt doing it during the beckett centenary celebrations earlier this year here in Dublin and that was great. But Pinter. I mean...<< so what is next on your wish list, Garrett: Chekhov's Three Sisters, played by Ani di Franco, Joni Mitchell and Patti Smith as Olga, Masha and Irina, respectively? Andrei to be played by Doctor Jack from 'Lost'? Hee Hee. mike in bcn npimh - Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep - anyone seen Breakfast on Pluto? PS what's with the new e-mail address. Shall I use it instead of the old one? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:24:00 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" > Again, while many conservatives thought that the Reagan pic was kind of in > sick taste, they did not want to ban it or edit it because, of course, that > would be hypocritical to conservative ideals of constitutional freedoms. > The conservatives this time were mostly concerned about congressional > interference and once again having to watch Clinton try to make something > way bigger than him all about him. Also, some people are disturbed by what > seemd to be continual attempts by some on the left to try to suppress > information or exhort us all to forget incidents from the Clinton years. Well let's see what the conservatives ARE saying: A review of the miniseries on the right-wing website Human Events Online asserted that the Clinton administration erected a "wall" to prevent information-sharing between government agencies. In fact, the "wall" long predated Bill Clinton's presidency. The conservative website Human Events Online recounted a scene in which the CIA withholds from the FBI "crucial information identifying some of the 9/11 hijackers" and asserted that this occurred because of "the 'wall' put up by certain Democrat officials to prevent information sharing between government agencies." The film was written and produced by conservative activist Cyrus Nowrasteh. This is what he said about Michael Moore: On Michael Moore " He9s an out of control socialist weasel. Listen. I9m probably more of a libertarian than a strict conservative. In my writing and directing, I don9t want to just be a conservative version of Michael Moore. I9m here to tell a good story first and foremost - and that9s why I can navigate the networks and get my work produced." Interview, June 9, 2005. Does he have an agenda? How about: According to Nowrasteh, "there is no question that night one of "The Path to 9/11" is critical of the Clinton administration's unwillingness to pull the trigger when the opportunity to capture or eliminate Osama bin Laden presented itself." Nowrasteh appeared as a featured speaker at the Liberty Film Festival (LFF), an annual event founded in 2004 to premier and promote conservative-themed films supposedly too "politically incorrect" to gain acceptance at mainstream film festivals. As for advanced screenings, and such, Cofounder of the Liberty Film Festival was given an advanced screening by ABC with others. She immediately wrote a glowing review for FrontPageMag that emphasized the film's partisan nature. "'The Path to 9/11' is one of the best, most intelligent, most pro-American miniseries I've ever seen on TV, and conservatives should support it and promote it as vigorously as possible." And she sent out an email blast to thousands: Michael Barone and a number of other conservative journalists were at the Washington screening of "The Path to 9/11" last week and absolutely loved it. Liberal journalists though are already attacking the miniseries, and are trying to get it pulled because it depicts the Clinton administration's repeated failure to capture Bin Laden. Clinton lawyer Richard Ben Veniste even verbally attacked the show's producers Marc Platt and Cyrus Nowrasteh in front of everyone at the Washington screening. In addition, "The Path to 9/11" is running with no ads or sponsors, because the left considers it so controversial and no companies have been willing to sponsor it. Please do everything you can to spread the word about this excellent miniseries, so that "The Path to 9/11" gets the highest ratings possible when it airs on September 10 & 11! If this show gets huge ratings, then ABC will be more likely to produce pro-American movies and TV shows in the future! My in-depth review of "The Path to 9/11" is below - when you read it you will understand why Jason and I are so excited about this miniseries! Govindini Murty Co-Founder & Co-Artistic Director The Liberty Film Festival Is this an example of the "direction" to which you refer? Jason Apuzzo, Co Founder of the Liberty Film Festival was also given an advanced screening. On September 2nd he blogged on Libertas (self described as a conservative forum): "Make no mistake about what this film does, among other things: it places the question of the Clinton Administration's culpability for the 9/11 attacks front and center... Bravo to Cyrus Nowrasteh and David Cunningham for creating this gritty, stylish and gripping piece of entertainment." ABC provided 900 DVDs of the film to conservatives, while Clinton administration officials and objective reviewers from mainstream outlets were denied them. While conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and Patterico were provided copies, ABC refused to provide a copy to President Clinton9s office. Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger were also denied copies. If ABC was looking for the truth, it sure doesn't seem like it. From Albright's letter, which went unanswered: While I have requested a copy of the broadcast, I have yet to receive one. I have been informed by some who had been given the right to view the broadcast that the drama depicts scenes that never happened, events that never took place, decisions that were never made and conversations that never occurred; it asserts as fact things that are not fact. For example, one scene apparently portrays me as refusing to support a missile strike against bin Laden without first alerting the Pakistanis; it further asserts that I notified the Pakistanis of the strike over the objections of our military. Neither of these assertions is true. In fact, the 9/11 commission reports states (page 117), 3Since the missiles headed for Afghanistan had had to cross Pakistan, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was sent to meet with Pakistan9s army chief of staff to assure him the missiles were not coming from India. Officials in Washington speculated that one or another Pakistani official might have sent a warning to the Taliban or Bin Ladin.2 Rush Limbaugh (subscription required) and conservative websites FrontPageMag and Human Events Online have begun promoted The Path to 9/11 as a film that "really zeros in on the shortcomings of the Clinton administration" and "honestly and fairly depicts] how Clinton-era inaction ... allowed the 9/11 conspiracy to metastasize." And yet when Clinton and others complain about the factual errors of the "docudrama based on the 9/11 Commission," conservative David Horowitz writes: "The attacks by former president Bill Clinton, former Clinton Administration officials and Democratic US senators on Cyrus Nowrasteh's ABC mini-series "The Path to 9/11" are easily the gravest and most brazen and damaging governmental attacks on the civil liberties of ordinary Americans since 9/11," And what does Zuppo say? ""Here at LIBERTAS we urge the public to make noise over this, and to demand that Democrats back down. What is at stake is nothing short of the 1st Amendment." Hmmmmm. Sound familiar? As to the suppression of the Clinton years by the Left, scenes depicting Clinton and his administration creating a "wall" to prevent information sharing was debunked years ago. Former Sen. Slade Gorton [R-WA], a 9-11 Commission member, specifically addressed and debunked the theory that Gorelick's memo prevented such intelligence-sharing in an August 18, 2005, letter to the editor in The Washington Times: The one witness who did name Atta came to our staff shortly before the commission's report went to the printer. He said he thought he had seen something showing Atta in Brooklyn early in 2000. We knew, in fact, that Atta first arrived in the United States in June 2000 with a visa. For this and other reasons, the witness simply was not credible on this subject. Additionally, the assertion that the commission failed to report on this program to protect Ms. Gorelick is ridiculous. She had nothing to do with any "wall" between law enforcement and our intelligence agencies. The 1995 Department of Justice guidelines at issue were internal to the Justice Department and were not even sent to any other agency. The guidelines had no effect on the Department of Defense and certainly did not prohibit it from communicating with the FBI, the CIA or anyone else. But it doesn't stop the right wing from bringing it up over and over and over again. Jerry Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:00:37 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" I saw a little bit of Path to 9/11 last night and thought it was pretty cheesy. So instead, I flipped to CBS, which had the most awesome footage from these photographers that were supposed to be making a documentary of a firefighter, but then 9/11 happened while they were filming. Totally riveting! Mia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:28:16 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: re:Words From the Original Male Mitchell Yes, this is what I love so much about Joni. You think a line is just a beautiful sounding metaphor, and then you find out it is a literal statement of fact. Mia Nuri wrote: >>"I can't go back there anymore You know my keys won't fit the door" (I Had a King) "After Joni broke into our Detroit apartment and took exactly half of everything before heading for New York, i changed the locks. She just turned up with a truck and a group of friends!" (Chuck Mitchell)>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:38:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: neil jordan's films (NJC) Oh yes. Neil Jordan is great and "Breakfast on Pluto" is enjoyable if not on the level of "The Crying Game", "Mona Lisa" or "The Burcher Boy". But Cillian Murphy is so lovable. Niel Jordan seems to have this fascination for drag queens which one of my professors in grad school said are classic icons -- cinematic or not. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Sun Ra: "St Louis Blues" . mike in bcn npimh - Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep - anyone seen Breakfast on Pluto? - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:13:08 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re:Modern Times > From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > Subject: Modern Times > > I'm surprised there has been no mention that Dylan's Modern Times debuted > at #1 this week. That is certainly pretty hot news. It is his first #1 in > 30 years and make him the oldest artist to ever to so. > > Jerry > > P.S. For you Joni-onlies, the connection here is that Bob is the only > artist for which she compares herself. > Hi, Jerry, Your note reminds me of a guy I used to work with. Each year, WFUV in NYC asks its listeners to vote for their favorite new albums of the year. So, i asked him which new albums he'd be voting for; he replied, "The new Dylan album." I reminded him that there WAS NO NEW Dylan album that year to vote for. He replied, "Well, if there WAS one, I'd vote for it." Without even hearing the (non-existant) album; what blind faith ! As if he could never write a bad song... and that he'd love the music even without hearing it. There's a really subjective listener, eh? Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:21:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Mary thanks for jumping into this. (FYIW- I was unable to watch the show last night but taped it to watch this week. I'm curious to see this point of view.) You responded to something that really bothered me which I was going to ignore but now will comment on- & that is the loaded word 'directed'. As far as I know, we all rely on second hand information for our news. And this information is filtered through the individual and/or organization presenting the information. Many of us read a variety of viewpoints & come to trust certain viewpoints that are closely aligned with our own. My 2 cents. >Kakki wrote: "What is also so weird to me is that something like 200,000+ people who have not even seen Path to 9/11 are protesting it, not based on what they have viewed, but because they have been directed to do so." To which I reply: Excuse me. "*Directed*??!"... I'm not part of a "vast left-wing conspiracy." No one "directed" me, or the people I know, to do anything!< Mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:21:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Mary thanks for jumping into this. (FYIW- I was unable to watch the show last night but taped it to watch this week. I'm curious to see this point of view.) You responded to something that really bothered me which I was going to ignore but now will comment on- & that is the loaded word 'directed'. As far as I know, we all rely on second hand information for our news. And this information is filtered through the individual and/or organization presenting the information. Many of us read a variety of viewpoints & come to trust certain viewpoints that are closely aligned with our own. My 2 cents. >Kakki wrote: "What is also so weird to me is that something like 200,000+ people who have not even seen Path to 9/11 are protesting it, not based on what they have viewed, but because they have been directed to do so." To which I reply: Excuse me. "*Directed*??!"... I'm not part of a "vast left-wing conspiracy." No one "directed" me, or the people I know, to do anything!< Mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:50:38 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Always running behind, I'm just now reading this interesting thread ... Brenda asked: > There's already been a feature film, so why not a docudrama? Both (all) are in extremely poor taste, imo. To make money from this tragedy is just unconscionably grotesque. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:58:15 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow Traditionally, one partakes in the ingestion of substances that um...enhance one's sense that what you are seeing is um...freaking awesome. : ) Jenny On 9/10/06, Bob Muller wrote: > > Hi Ron - I have to say that I was also a little > underwhelmed by the whole thing after reading so > much about it. Maybe I should have read one of > the many "lists of coincidences" beforehand so I > could have been looking for these things. Most of > the major ones I did catch. And a lot of them are > no big deal. > > http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/DSotR/List.html > > Bob > > NP: CSN, "Anything At All" > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:01:58 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) "Why Mommy is a Democrat" Oh, the wonders of Gmail! Just now, at the top of my Inbox view, appeared this: Why Mommy is a Democrat- littledemocrats.net - The book George Bush doesn't want your kids to read! I love the sample pages: http://littledemocrats.net/samples.html I'm buying this book for my 7- and 5-year old nieces!! (Their daddy, my brother and a Union man, will approve.) Lori, who thinks I would not see this on Yahoo! Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:09:13 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" I just don't understand the need to dramatize any of it only five years out. Maybe 20 years from now when there is a generation of young adults who weren't sentient when it happened. There's something about fictionalizing or adapting these stories so soon that creates an emotional distance from what really happened. Last night I opted to watch an actual documentary on CBS based on the footage of two videographers who had started filming an nyc firehouse a few months before. It was really well done. Jenny On 9/11/06, Lori Fye wrote: > > Always running behind, I'm just now reading this interesting thread ... > > Brenda asked: > > > There's already been a feature film, so why not a docudrama? > > Both (all) are in extremely poor taste, imo. To make money from this > tragedy is just unconscionably grotesque. > > Lori > Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:18:13 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Reflections on 9/11 (njc) Another way I plan to reflect on the 5th anniversary of September 11th is by listening to a recording of Mahler's 6th Symphony that was recorded live in San Fransisco on September 12-15, 2001. It's the SanFran Symphony conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas. I don't know that I'll have time today but it occurred to me to maybe listen to it on the 12th, the actual day it was recorded. I can only imagine what it must have felt like to show up that day, instruments in hand, ready to perform a work that it is by its very nature, simultaneously the most tragic and beautiful classical work I have ever heard. Achingly passionate with a sense of impending doom. Often I find it easier to reflect on such powerful emotions through music than through words. After all, music is the language of emotion anyway, is it not? On a side note, I heard a very touching story about a young boy who was 13 in 2001. After 9/11, he told his parents he wanted to become a Marine. This past week, he was killed in Iraq. I feel a strong sense of sorrow and admiration. Victor NP: Cicadas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:21:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" >I think most people give a rats ass about Clinton or Bush and what they did >or did not do. What they are more concerned about is that we learn more of >the nature of the ongoing threat against us and how we can make changes to >avoid future attacks, large or small. I have always said that it is >absolutely ridiculous to blame any one president for the problem. We are >ALL collectively to blame, if anyone is to blame, for being complacent, or >uneducated, or oblivious at the threat and attacks from these enemies for >the past nearly 30 years. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No your wrong, this has Rove all over it, he thinks that most people wont be able to go through anothe hour or two tonight and are satisfied with last nights tedious film. And yes I agree about the law suit but, do you really think that Bill Clinton would really send a public letter to the head of ABC telling them to take it off the air, after all the things he has been through the past 20 years ?????????? MY thoughts are he has the amunition to fight them. And I still say that the GOP dont care about the fall out for ABC, they have been mugged, to hear the News reader say that this was a work of fiction, straight after the programme seems to nulifiy the whole event dont you ??? A work of fiction????? where has the " 9/11 commision Report " side of things gone???? or to look at it another way they have made it all up ??????????????? As regards Bush you know ( excluding Pearl Harbour) America has not had any attack on the American mainland for 300 years up to "9/11" and it happend on his watch, his watch, you cant get round this. Clarke said that he and others told Rice that there was a threat of Planes flying into buildings in New York and she didnt react or tell the President, and you know the Film used Clarke's evidence on last nights part 1 so they give him some credence, there was intel of arabs learning how to fly jets in Florida and not really learning how to land?????? Lastly ok Bill Clinton was to blame, maybee, for not killing Bin laden, but he wasnt really involved was he, Is someone saying that if Bin Laden was killed Al Queda would have folded like a pack of cards??? No they would not have, the attack unfortunatly would still have gone ahead. This link of 9/11 to Clinton, is just the GOP saying well Clinton made huge mistakes so did Bush so its ok then isnt it. No not really the american people should be annoyed at the Bush administration for allowing this event to happen not making him some sort of hero, Yes he orderd thousands of troops to Afganistan and Iraq a bit late dont you think, and unfortunately Al Queda are still around, and as the British Government found in the 60' through to the 90's when they fought the IRA you cant really win!! as fast as you Kill or arrest one another pops up, as in Ireland, Remember they almost blew up Margret Thatcher. I think ABC have lost all credence now and I wonder what there Journalists think about there reputations, for they have become the new Fox News I read this morning that chunks were taken out of the film at the last moment last night. Dont you think this is all shambolic, the controller of ABC News should be shot. a work of Fiction!!! OMG. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:38:17 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow Yes Jenny - I figured that was the case when I was watching it, stone cold sober on a Sunday morning. I guess that why I never saw what people liked about the Grateful Dead. Bob - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:38:17 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: (NJC) "Why Mommy is a Democrat" Unless I'm mistaken Lori, this book was written in response to a book called "Why Mommy Is A Republican", written by a Greenville, SC lady. She was profiled in a local news article last year, who said it came from the times she sat down with her kids and tried to explain to them how the Democrats were bad because they wanted to take all of Daddy's money in taxes and they wouldn't have a home. It was pretty sick stuff - much more "grotesque" than 9/11 films. I know that my Mom always voted, but she never was political. She lived a life of peace, kindness and generosity to everybody and that went a lot further than any politics she could have imbued me with. Bob NP: Beach Boys cover story on Coverville.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:38:04 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Jerry shared: > How about: According to Nowrasteh, "there is no question that night one of > "The Path to 9/11" is critical of the Clinton administration's unwillingness > to pull the trigger when the opportunity to capture or eliminate Osama bin > Laden presented itself." These claims that Clinton, et al, failed or refused to capture bin Laden always crack me up when I think of this, from http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html: - ----- An article in the French daily Le Figaro confirms that Osama bin Laden underwent surgery in an American Hospital in Dubai in July [2001]. During his stay in the hospital, he met with a CIA official. While on the World's "most wanted list", no attempt was made to arrest him during his two week stay in the hospital, shedding doubt on the Administration's resolve to track down Osama bin Laden. - ----- There are numerous accounts of bin Laden's July 2001 visit to the American Hospital in Dubai. WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE U.S. IN JULY 2001??? Not Bill Clinton. Oh, but that one chance to arrest bin Laden must pale when compared with the "many opportunities" Clinton had to get him, huh? Lori, who isn't at all convinced that bin Laden had much, if anything, to do with 9/11 anyway ... http://www.loosechange911.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" yeah I agree. It kind of sucks the soul out of it and recreates it in white bread or styrofoam. Not sure why it worked out well with other things. For example, "Apocalypse Now" being made so relatively soon after the Vietnam War. Em - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I just don't understand the need to dramatize any of it only five > years out. > Maybe 20 years from now when there is a generation of young adults > who > weren't sentient when it happened. There's something about > fictionalizing or > adapting these stories so soon that creates an emotional distance > from what > really happened. > > Last night I opted to watch an actual documentary on CBS based on the > footage of two videographers who had started filming an nyc firehouse > a few > months before. It was really well done. > > Jenny > > > > On 9/11/06, Lori Fye wrote: > > > > Always running behind, I'm just now reading this interesting thread > ... > > > > Brenda asked: > > > > > There's already been a feature film, so why not a docudrama? > > > > Both (all) are in extremely poor taste, imo. To make money from > this > > tragedy is just unconscionably grotesque. > > > > Lori > > Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:45:39 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) "Why Mommy is a Democrat" > Unless I'm mistaken Lori, this book was written in response to a book > called "Why Mommy Is A Republican", written by a Greenville, SC lady. > She was profiled in a local news article last year, who said it came from > the times she sat down with her kids and tried to explain to them how the > Democrats were bad because they wanted to take all of Daddy's money > in taxes and they wouldn't have a home. It was pretty sick stuff - much > more "grotesque" than 9/11 films. That's interesting to know, Bob. For whatever reason it was written, I look forward to buying a copy of "Why Mommy is a Democrat," and sharing it with my nieces if it's appropriate. As for the Greenville, SC "lady" who wrote the other book, imo a whole lot of what is wrong with Republicans has to do with the way they fuss over and hoard money. They have made Capitalism a dirty word, for me. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:54:27 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Jenny wrote: > I just don't understand the need to dramatize any of it only five > years out. Because one wouldn't want to miss out on maximizing the money-making opportunities ... would one? Em wrote: > Not sure why it worked out well with other things. For example, > "Apocalypse Now" being made so relatively soon after the Vietnam War. Perhaps because the Vietnam war dragged on for so long that it didn't seem as fresh and painful -- at least not to most people -- when the movies started coming out. Versus 9/11, which was a shocking one-day event that is still VERY fresh and painful 5 years later. I don't care if the 9/11 movies are made 20 years from now, I still think it's grotesque to make money from these kinds of things. Fahrenheit 9/11 included (which I rented and watched), and last night's CBS documentary included (which I also watched, and it was very well done and very interesting, particularly because it happened more-or-less accidentally). Hypocritically and always confused, Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:02:28 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Subject:njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Somehow I doubt that the people in Oklahoma City would agree. Sometimes terror is homegrown, which is one of the many reasons why declaring war on a noun is never successful. I do agree with you that 9/11 would have happened even without Bin Laden. Bob NP: Sarah Vaughan, "That's All" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Subject: njc, "No More Lies!" Andeemac2006 wrote: << America has not had any attack on the American mainland for 300 years up to "9/11" >> Not true. I live on a battleground (Bunker Hill) and the Brits burned down the White House less than 200 years ago and you know there are more. --Smurf . - --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:08:06 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow On Sep 11, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > I guess that why I never saw what people liked about the Grateful > Dead. > > Bob > I saw the Grateful Dead about 10 times, Jerry Garcia Band twice, was sober every time and can only describe these shows as what were religious experiences. Honestly, I think the people who were tripping their asses off were missing out...its all in the music. There's something about their music I find very magical and compelling and I am not alone in that. I think its a shame so much emphasis is placed on the use of mind altering drugs ( and yes, I know the origin of the band, about the Electric Kool-aid acid tests and all that, yadda yadda yadda) when talking about their music because it overshadows the fact that they wrote incredible songs that I never tire of playing or listening to, unlike any others, and while Jerry was still around, provided a unique live performance that has influenced countless other bands. On the other hand, I found mind altering substances (red wine) very useful the night of the Ganga Line performance in Ashara's living room! Victor NP: John Coltrane Like Sonny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:22:39 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Dark Side Of The Rainbow Just another case of being blinded by religion I suppose. (just spoofing with you anyway, Victor - I have many friends (you included, along with Jody, and Julius) who think the GD are great and I totally respect that. There's actually a song or two of theirs that I think is fantastic.) Bob NP: Sarah Vaughan, "Detour Ahead" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:32:54 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Subject: njc, "No More Lies!" On Sep 11, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Smurf wrote: > Andeemac2006 wrote: > > << America has not had > any attack on the American mainland for 300 years up to "9/11" >> > > > Not true. I live on a battleground (Bunker Hill) and the Brits > burned down the White House less than 200 years ago and you know > there are more. > > --Smurf World Trade Center bombing, February 26, 1993 - -- Victor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:36:05 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" > That's a good point about Vietnam Em. I'm not sure why it's different > and I'm not old enough to remember Vietnam so it's hard for me to hazard a > guess. > > But I agree with what you're saying Lori and I also think part of why it > is still so fresh and is also b/c so many of us watched the events unfold > live on TV - and of course thousands witnessed the events in person. > > I tried to find info on the CBS documentary sponsor. It was commercial > free this time (apparently it aired in 2002 with Nextel doing brief > ads). My hope, naive as it may be, is that a large portion of money that's > made on any of these projects is donated to the people and cities directly > affected. > > Jenny > > > On 9/11/06, Lori Fye wrote: > > > Jenny wrote: > > > > > I just don't understand the need to dramatize any of it only five > > > years out. > > > > Because one wouldn't want to miss out on maximizing the money-making > > opportunities ... would one? > > > > Em wrote: > > > > > Not sure why it worked out well with other things. For example, > > > "Apocalypse Now" being made so relatively soon after the Vietnam War. > > > > Perhaps because the Vietnam war dragged on for so long that it didn't > > seem as fresh and painful -- at least not to most people -- when the > > movies > > started coming out. Versus 9/11, which was a shocking one-day event > > that is > > still VERY fresh and painful 5 years later. > > > > I don't care if the 9/11 movies are made 20 years from now, I still > > think > > it's grotesque to make money from these kinds of things. Fahrenheit > > 9/11 > > included (which I rented and watched), and last night's CBS documentary > > included (which I also watched, and it was very well done and very > > interesting, particularly because it happened more-or-less > > accidentally). > > > > Hypocritically and always confused, > > > > Lori > > Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:13:21 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" As "directed" to do so ...I will watch part one now ...taped from last night..then be all set to watch tonight's conclusion. Bree >Back to the show. I hope some will watch it. It is really pretty amazing. > >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:18:09 -0700 From: Subject: Re: (njc) Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" Andee wrote: > No your wrong, this has Rove all over it, he thinks that most people wont > be able to go through anothe hour or two tonight and are satisfied with > last nights tedious >film. Well, the ratings are out and many more people watched the football game than ABC last night. Funny you bring up that old master of the universe Rove. I read a new conspiracy theory today that somehow Rove manipulated Clinton and the Democrats to try to shut it down so they would look bad. LOL >And yes I agree about the law suit but, do you really think that Bill >Clinton would really send a public letter to the head of ABC telling them >to take it off the air, after >all the things he has been through the past >20 years ?????????? MY thoughts are he has the amunition to fight them. Then I hope he backs it up and sues. I can see much good that would come out of such a lawsuit. There could be rulings, however, that would curtail our current notions of free speech. > Clarke said that he and others told Rice that there was a threat of Planes > flying into buildings in New York and she didnt react or tell the > President, and you know >the Film used Clarke's evidence on last nights > part 1 so they give him some credence, there was intel of arabs learning > how to fly jets in Florida and not really >learning how to land?????? I've heard in tonight's episode Rice gets shredded. However, you have to wonder what could be done with a vague warning (without specifics from intelligence resources) that "there was a threat of of planes flying into buildings." What should they have done? Grounded all flights until further notice when they had no specifics to go on? In retrospect, sure why not, if it would have stopped 9/11, but realistically what action could they have taken just a few weeks before the events? Once flights resumed, they would have been right back at it. > Lastly ok Bill Clinton was to blame, maybee, for not killing Bin laden, > but he wasnt really involved was he, Is someone saying that if Bin Laden > was killed Al Queda >would have folded like a pack of cards??? No they > would not have, the attack unfortunatly would still have gone ahead. Yes, I agree that the attack could have gone ahead anyway. That is an argument Republicans make when some people seem to think that if we capture or kill OBL< then it will all be over. It certainly will not. The bigger issue is that we did nothing effectively to address the overall issue of terrorism for almost 30 years. And all can be blamed for that because we did not make it an issue or vote for people who would address it. We are now addressing it 30 years too late, but there has been at least some progress made. Here is a report of progress from ABC (ha, the new "Fox" ;-) today. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/cia_5000_terror.html > This link of 9/11 to Clinton, is just the GOP saying well Clinton made > huge mistakes so did Bush so its ok then isnt it. No, it is a chronology of the history of events leading up to 9/11. Remember, we subsequently learned that they were planning 9/11 years before the event and before Bush got into office. Try not to look at that fact as something against Clinton - try looking at it as something to educate us. > Al Queda are still around, and as the British Government found in the 60' > through to the 90's when they fought the IRA you cant really win!! as fast > as you Kill or >arrest one another pops up, as in Ireland, Remember they > almost blew up Margret Thatcher. The IRA was not part of a worldwide Islamic terrorist confederation and their methods and goals were far different. Al Queda is still around as are a number of other groups who want the same ends for us. They have all been around for a long time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:47:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC "We Don't Need No More Lies!" OK Bree - but if you post about it, be sure and put "SPOILER ALERT" in the subject line so you won't ruin the ending for Smurf - he may want to watch it someday. Bob NP: Mother Hips, "Transit Wind" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #329 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------