From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #325 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 8 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 325 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Enough Said (not)... YouTube... prom - NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Em ] Re: The Prom (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Crikey! njc now Laura the Leadfoot [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Voiceover Job!!!! NJC ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Em ] Re: Voiceover Job!!!! NJC [Nuriel Tobias ] NJC Talking about Cat... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Music to do it by njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [dsknyc05 ] michael hedges njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Music and Mayhem in 'Laurel Canyon' ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Brenda ] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Enough Said (not)... YouTube... prom - NJC LOL - Thanks for that, Brenda - you got my Friday started off with a good laugh. And it wasn't YouTube I needed, it was Oxy 10. Besides, if I'd have had YouTube in my teens, I would NEVER even have left the house. Bob, ready to get his party on now NP: Neil, "Rockin' In The Free World" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:43:08 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: Music from Norway Did any of you hear this - Susanna and her magocal orchetstra has the most beautiful version of Dolly Parton's "Jolene" you ever heard see the link below http://www.mic.no/mic.nsf/home/forsiden?opendocument&url=http://www.mic.no/mic.nsf/doc/art2004120114570096554360 bon weekend Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 04:43:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Its as if a Michael Moore movie were airing in prime time as fact, and being taught in the schools as fact (rather than just as something to think about in a "maybe" or "what if" sense). It would never happen! I read that study guides are being made by Scholastic for use in classes with regard to this 9/11 production. I can only hope some teachers will bring up the notion that there might be 2 sides to this, and that some of it may be distorted. Or heck, maybe a kid will bring it up. I had this in my inbox this a.m.: http://www.conyersforcongress.com/mail/util.cfm?gpiv=1999973698.173938.144&gen=1 If there are baldfaced inaccuracies in this thing, I hope they can be cleaned up before airing. I think too many people who hold whatever plays on TV to be the Truth will be watching, to allow something on such a serious topic to go through with lies, (or lets temper that and call them "innacuracies"). I hope they *at least* make it factually correct before airing, even if the overall color of this remains tinged to the right. Em - --- Brenda wrote: > Besides the blogs, AP and Reuters both have stories. I'm sure the > pundits will have a hold of it by the weekend. I found this comment > from 9/11 Commissioner Thomas Kean to offer some insight: > > "People in both parties didn't particularly like the commission > report > and I think people in both parties aren't going to love this one." > > Personally, I hope that ABC doesn't cave like CBS did with the Reagan > > miniseries. People who don't support it can vote with their remotes, > > but let it air for those of us who want to see it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:07:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Prom (njc) Ah, so we weren't the only ones who drove to the beach after proms. We would also go to Downtown dives in our formal wear. That was always a hoot. Funny thing. I was gay but a very popular prom date. So much so that I had to buy a tux to save money. Looking back, I was tall, reasonably good looking, a great dancer and dresser, and never jumped the girls bones after one date. I guess I WAS a good date :) Jerry > Hee! I went to my "Junior" Prom and it was so boring! We were on some kind > of cheesy boat in L.A. Harbor and we were all decked out, you know, and the > only thing I got out of it was eating Frog Leg's for the first time ("it's > like tiny chicken legs!") We were trying to be oh so sophisticated and > "formal" and had planned our "after party" at a local harbor restaurant. At > some point in the evening a group of us said "Let's drive up to Malibu!," a > good 40 miles away and did so. This was 1971 and we stopped at some point > where some hippies had a beach house and were playing the new (first) > Chicago album and so we just walked on by down to the beach in our > hairsprayed formals and had the real party ;-) The senior prom well, that > was another story. Grad Night at Disneyland was the big deal and we > smuggled (hoisted) cases of beer through the bus windows to guide us on our > way. The good old days, truly LOL > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:23:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Crikey! njc now Laura the Leadfoot That would be cool. More likely they see my "Enough Is Enough! Vote Democratic '06" bumpersticker and they're checking to see if the handgun they have in the glove compartment is loaded so they can take a potshot at me when they do decide to pass. Bob NP: Sparklehorse, "Knives of Summertime" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:34:39 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Voiceover Job!!!! NJC Yayy!!! I've just got my second voiceover job! Pays quite good. It's not an advert but it's for a Singaporean Co for an exhibition over there.... so glad I can speak another language! I will be going to the States AND SouthEast Asia next year! I will have the money for the flight to the Jonifest now! Hurrah!!!!!!!! hurrah!!! Zooby - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 and on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/jamiezoob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:11:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Scholastic has since turned thumbs down to this donation as they say the material does not meet their criteria. Good for them. And ABC has decided to do some zero-hour cutting to eliminate the scenes where it was portrayed that Bill Clinton had Osama in his sights and let him go. Frankly, I don't have any problem with TV airing anything about anything. Hell, 35-40% of Americans still think that Iraq and 9-11 are connected, simply because that was the FIRST "Truth" they heard. And let's face it, if someone says something that we WANT to believe, we are easily persuaded to fall for it. Even though this is called a "docudrama", I have serious doubts that many Americans would be able to discern it from a "documentary". Our country has been dumbed down considerably. Bob NP: Bobby Bare Jr, "The Heart Bionic" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 06:21:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Scholastic has since turned thumbs down to this donation as they say > the > material does not meet their criteria. Good for them. Yes! I just heard that too. Good for them, indeed! I think its healthy that this thing didn't just sail through. Em ps this is very OT, remember we were talking about Rose Royce last week?? lol... anyway, i've been doing various things to get my stereo sounding better (getting it fixed would be one of those things) and I played "CarWash" to kind of test it. WOW!!!!!!!! that is one dynamic piece of recorded material! it dances, it pokes ya, the rhythm guitar tickles you with a feather, veddy nice-ah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 06:23:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Voiceover Job!!!! NJC Absolutely brilliant news, Jamie! Nuri Jamie's Box of Paints wrote: Yayy!!! I've just got my second voiceover job! Pays quite good. It's not an advert but it's for a Singaporean Co for an exhibition over there.... so glad I can speak another language! I will be going to the States AND SouthEast Asia next year! I will have the money for the flight to the Jonifest now! Hurrah!!!!!!!! hurrah!!! Zooby - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 and on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/jamiezoob - --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:00:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Talking about Cat... Since Cat Stevens has been a topic, I noticed this bit of synchro - his first album in 28 years (!) comes out in November: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060907/people_nm/cat_dc And an appropriate cover on the disc..."Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood". Bob NP: The Wood Brothers, "Fixin' A Hole" (live 6-15-06) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:49:06 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Music to do it by njc Santana (especially the one I can't remember the title to at the moment but you know it when you hear it), clapton's solo in layla, many of mark knopfler sound tracks (especially cal)... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:08:41 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Scholastic for use in > classes with regard to this 9/11 production.> > > Scholastic has since turned thumbs down to this > donation as they say the > material does not meet their criteria. Good for > them. Yes, that's great! That was my main concern about it - -- that students years from now would be seeing it and taking it in as truth because you know there would not ALWAYS be someone there telling them what was true (according to the 9/11 report) and what was made up by the Repub writer to further the conservative agenda. > And ABC has decided to do some zero-hour cutting to > eliminate the scenes > where it was portrayed that Bill Clinton had Osama > in his sights and let > him go. I say good for Clinton and others in his administration for taking action even at the derision of conservatives. Even a private citizen has a right to sue or take other action against being slandered. When I first heard weeks ago that the movie didn't blame bin Laden for 9/11, it didn't blame Bush, but instead put the responsibility for 9/11 on Clinton, my first thought was, I wonder what Repub wrote it and what conservative group is backing it. And that was before knowing any details about it. The Repubs always blame Clinton for everything that goes wrong so it was obvious to me even before knowing the details that it was a conservative propaganda piece. To say the show and whoever sees it is just looking for the truth is absolute bullsh*t! If the title of the movie had been "Republican Propaganda to Persuade Voters in the Upcoming Elections to Vote for Us" and with a subtitle "We Blame Clinton for Everything That's Gone Wrong, Ever", then that would be truthful. To claim it was based on the 9/11 Report, and then to hear people who know exactly what's in that Report talk about how the movie got it wrong... well, I'll believe those experts before I'll believe some conservative blowhard whining again about Democrats. > Frankly, I don't have any problem with TV > airing anything about > anything. Hell, 35-40% of Americans still think that > Iraq and 9-11 are > connected, simply because that was the FIRST "Truth" > they heard. And let's > face it, if someone says something that we WANT to > believe, we are easily > persuaded to fall for it. Yes, very true. And then they claim it's the TRUTH! And completely disregard anything that might nip at that certainty a bit. That's what makes me think most Repubs are very stupid. It's unnatural to agree with anyone, even the president, on EVERY issue. I don't know any Democrat who believed or agreed with everything Clinton did, but there are lots of Repubs who just repeat whatever the Bushies tell them and then call it the Truth. > Even though this is called a "docudrama", I have > serious doubts that many > Americans would be able to discern it from a > "documentary". I think ABC just recently applied the docudrama label. Before getting all the negative reactions, the main label was "Based on the 9/11 Report." Since that Report is considered to be the unbiased authoritive report about what happened, anything claiming to be based on that will be the TRUTH, right? That's typical deceptive Repub manipulation of the truth for their benefit, and I'm very glad Clinton and the 9/11 report experts called them on it. > Our country > has been dumbed down considerably. Yes, it's to the Repubs' advantage to keep voters stupid! They're really good at it. Even people who seem sharp in other areas suck it all in, and then label as bad anyone who's still awake and pointing out things that are not truthful or pointing out things that could be done better in this grand land of ours. Oh, those bad bad Democrats who want to talk about issues instead of just repeating what the Bushies tell us! How impolite to ruffle the Repubs' feathers. Thank god there are still such bad people around. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" - --- Brenda wrote: > Personally, I hope that ABC doesn't cave like CBS > did with the Reagan > miniseries. People who don't support it can vote > with their remotes, > but let it air for those of us who want to see it. Yes, let it air. But label it accurately! Debra Shea Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:31:24 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" - --- Brenda wrote: > Retractions are one thing but the presentation of an > opposing view is another. I think it's one thing to > complain (there is certainly no shortage of that > from the left) For good reason! Not everyone has sucked in the Repub propaganda! > and another thing to make an effort > to oppose by presenting another view. I know the > old quote about not underestimating the stupidity of > the public, but I do believe that people should have > the right to make up their own minds. Sure, if they're presented with info that at least aims for unbiased truth! Claiming the movie is based on the 9/11 report and then putting in info that is the complete opposite of that report is being dishonest. It's not helpful to consider all information or motives to be equal. The success of Repub propaganda depends on people doing that. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:40:40 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Give Peace a Vote Dear Joniamigos: Won't you join us? "All we are saying....." (Included in that "us" and "we" are Susan Sarandon, Willie Nelson, Alice Walker, Jackson Browne, and you *know*....) Merci en avance, et bon weekend! Peace, Patti P., who is going out to dinner tonight with two high school friends I haven't seen in many dim years (20?) (they were not my prom dates, though....LOL!) If the links in the text pasted below don't work, just go here: http://www.givepeaceavote.org/article.php?list=type&type=165 "Join Us! Take a Stand by Signing the Voters Pledge! What if millions decided to vote their conscience and said 'No More War Candidates'? The Voters Pledge makes visible a powerful political force, the peace vote, a force that politicians cannot continue to ignore. It sends a clear message to the hawkish minority leading both major parties that we, the people, demand to end the occupation of Iraq and to end unprovoked attacks on other nations. Sign the Voters Pledge and ask at least 10 of your friends to sign as well. Let's put PEACE at the top of the ballot in 2006! Latest News! Please join the TROOPS HOME FASTers in D.C. for the entire duration of the CODEPINK-sponsored Camp Democracy, or for culminating activities on Sept. 20th: Women for Peace Day. We will keep the fast going until September 21, International Peace Day, when there will be a week of mass actions against the war. GIVE PEACE A VOTE is a part of the Voters for Peace Pledge Coalition. We are working in partnership with more than two dozen organizations to build a national bloc of peace voters that politicians cannot afford to ignore. Take the pledge today!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:54:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: michael hedges njc Thanks smurf... check out the smoking guitar on aerial boundaries! :~} >http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Michael+Hedges&search=Search - - --Smurf< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:12:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Music and Mayhem in 'Laurel Canyon' http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5778064 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:34:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Re: now Madonna could be an artist NJC >Kate, something in me knew that you were going to mention this band. Maybe I'm crazy, but if memory serves me I recall you mentioning them before, perhaps in the context of a "signing artists as tax writeoffs" discussion. Do correct me if I'm wrong. The pipe has been passed many times since then.< I don't think I've mentioned this band in particular, but I have mentioned the situation of other bands signed to labels who end up in this situation. >I think it's a mis-characterization to say that this is something that the "big" labels have done. It happens with labels of all sizes; it's just that no one pays attention when it's the small guys. In fact some independent label disputes are far worse because even if you win the dispute, chances are you will never be compensated because they are less likely to have assets.< I didn't mean to characterize it as an only big label situation. The only reason I mentioned it was to add another dimension to the discussion of Maverick helping other artists. >But if that band languished in limbo then they have to look at themselves too because they signed the deal and took the money. I doubt very much that they offered to give the money back, but please correct me if I'm wrong.< I haven't heard anything about them in many years (which doesn't mean they aren't doing anything- just that I haven't heard) so this discussion has made me curious to find out what is up with them... what they are up to... they were very young kids at the time & I have no idea what their deal was... I'll have to get back to you on that if I can find out any information ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:42:29 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" From: "dsknyc05" <<>> I agree and I think it's an excellent opportunity to sit with one's children and discuss what you're watching too. Our children should never forget what happened on 9/11 but it's important that they understand the nature of this presentation. For my own peace of mind I will watch the show and it will be "mandatory" family viewing. I will tell my son that it's perfectly OK to invite his friends to watch with us but that he is required to sit and watch the entire show with me so that we can discuss what we're being shown. And we will discuss that at some point in time, I expect that he require his own children to watch with him. I am reminded of song lyrics... You who are on the road Must have a code that you can live by And so become yourself Because the past is just a good bye. Teach your children well, Their father's hell did slowly go by, And feed them on your dreams The one they picked, the one you'll know by. Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry, So just look at them and sigh and know they love you. And you, of tender years, Can't know the fears that your elders grew by, And so please help them with your youth, They seek the truth before they can die. Teach your parents well, Their children's hell will slowly go by, And feed them on your dreams The one they picked, the one you'll know by. Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry, So just look at them and sigh and know they love you. Warmly, Cassy NP: Adieu False Heart - ZoZo Sisters (Ann Savoy and Linda Ronstadt) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: crime rates and abortion NJC - --- mike pritchard wrote: > When I read some months ago about Bill Bennett's > remarks about 'aborting every > black in order to reduce the crime rate', I paid > little attention other than > the initial outrage, but as I am well aware of what > can be 'proved' with > statistics, and as I didn't have the time or > expertise to challenge his > figures I went no further with this. Recently on > holiday I read Levitt and > Dubner's 'Freakonomics' and one chapter uses an > enormous database and draws > similar conclusions; similar in that Levitt claims > Roe vs Wade was the real > reason for the drop in crime in the 1990s. Hi (thinkin' all the time) Mike, Please pardon my delay in responding to your thought-provoking message. I'm not keeping up with the list the way I used to. Since you read the book and I only heard about it, you would know more about the actual study than I do. Bennett made his remark on his talk-radio show soon after Katrina so there was plenty in the news for people to be outraged about. I don't think it got as much attention as it would have if he'd said it at another time. My thought was, racist assumptions here in the U.S.? No surprise there! There was some public reaction, mainly from the Democrats in Congress (yep, those pesky Dems again!), and there was lots of talk on the tv news shows about it. I remember Congressman Conyers and the NY representatives speaking out strongly about how racist Bennett's remark was, and calling on the Bushies to denounce it. To be honest, I'm not sure why BushCo had to say anything about it since Bennett is now a private citizen and was speaking on a commercial radio station. He was the education secretary in Reagan's administration and I think had some position in the old Bush admin, but he's not a government official now. And since it's been revealed that he ran up millions of dollars of gambling debt, he's not held in very high regard by anyone except the kool-aid drinking conservatives. Anyway, eventually the Bush admin said something to distance themselves from what Bennett had said. I don't remember exactly what their official statement was, but do recall thinking that they just don't get what the uproar is about. Bennett never did either. He kept saying that his statement was hypothetical, which wasn't the issue. The issue was his assumption that being black equals being a criminal. The study's authors said they never mentioned race because it wasn't possible to do such a study using race as a factor. Their study was based on class (at least that's what I read the authors claimed; you could confirm that). So, Bennett's assumption was not only that all black babies would grow up to be criminals, but that all of them live in poverty. Some do, some don't. Poverty isn't limited to one group of people. Yeah, I know, that's obvious, but not to Bennett. He never understood why anyone would think he was a racist, and at one point was blaming liberals for his troubles (nothing new there; typical Repub behavior). To claim that a study backed up his ignorant racist assumptions was just plain old dishonesty. > Not something I wanted to read but > I do believe that the 'truth' in general, if that's > what it is, should be > listened to, however uncomfortable it makes us feel. I agree. The study was pretty easily disproven (again, based on what I read and saw on news shows) because the abortion rate has been steadily declining since 1984, and at the same time the crime rate fell during the 1990s because of the hopeful economic climate along with Clinton's funding to put more policeman on the streets (at least that's my understanding of the reasons; conservatives may disagree because they can't give Clinton credit for anything good). As an interesting aside: The abortion rate rose slightly in 2002, and then, poof, the Bushies said that stats on the number of abortions were no longer to be collected by the CDC (Center for Disease Control). The CDC compiles statistics on everything (did you know that more babies are born on Tuesday than on Sundays?) and had been collecting stats on the number of legal induced abortions every year since 1969. But one little blip upward and BushCo stops that... trying to keep us ignorant again. With less healthcare for woman and a lousy economy, I expect both crime and the number of abortions are going up. No wonder the Bushies don't want stats collected. One other little thing I recall about the reaction to Bennett's remark is one talking head saying that if there are fewer people (regardless of their race), then there would be fewer crimes and the study falls on its face on that basic fact. > I wanted to read more > about Levitt's methodology and database but have not > read it yet (there is a > 60 page pdf file available which obviously goes into > greater detail than > mentioned in the book). So does my understanding of that study match what you learned by reading the book? > ... I'd like to know if anything was/is > happening in the USA, > especially from black communities or black academics > on this matter. I don't recall specifically that. And I'm not sure if the NY reps were the most vocal about their disgust at such a racist assumption, or if that's just how it seemed because I was watching local NY news, where they would be highlighted, in addition to seeing and reading national news. Keep on thinkin' ! Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 12:18:44 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Em wrote: > Its as if a Michael Moore movie were airing in prime time as fact, and > being taught in the schools as fact (rather than just as something to > think about in a "maybe" or "what if" sense). It would never happen! > But there's a difference between a Michael Moore film and this one. Moore's films contain real people. This miniseries has actors, not the real people. Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > classes with regard to this 9/11 production.> > > Scholastic has since turned thumbs down to this donation as they say the > material does not meet their criteria. Good for them. > Scholastic has declined the materials that they themselves produced? Would you clarify? And when you say it doesn't meet their criteria, what criteria specifically? > And ABC has decided to do some zero-hour cutting to eliminate the scenes > where it was portrayed that Bill Clinton had Osama in his sights and let > him go. ABC said that they hadn't yet finished the film. Where did you read, hear or see that they actually changed from what they had already planned to do in editing anyway? By the way the scene in question is not about Clinton letting Bin Laden go, but about his staffers expressing concern over the fallout should they make the attempt and something went wrong. There isn't even a Bill Clinton character in the film according to the credits listed on IMDB. Richard Clarke, the person that criticized this scene and who has also been an ABC news consultant for at least a year will have the opportunity to air his dispute on an ABC during a program that will air Monday called "9/11/06: Where Things Stand." It's on at 10pm after the miniseries closes. > Frankly, I don't have any problem with TV airing anything about > anything. Hell, 35-40% of Americans still think that Iraq and 9-11 are > connected, simply because that was the FIRST "Truth" they heard. Some people believe Moore films are fact not "maybe" or "what if." Some Americans believe that the Democratic party has an anti-war agenda. And some believe that military recruiting in schools was "buried" in the No Child Left Behind legislation. > Even though this is called a "docudrama", I have serious doubts that many > Americans would be able to discern it from a "documentary". Our country > has been dumbed down considerably. > But if this dumbed down country turns over control of the Congress to the Democrats, will they suddenly be smarter? Do you really think that "many Americans" are so stupid that they won't recognize Patricia Heaton as the actress who was Ray's wife on "Everybody Loves Raymond?" Harvey Keitel might be a little tougher, but there's no small number of "dumb" Americans who kept Raymond at the top of the ratings. It's interesting because a writer for the Hollywood Reporter (you know that bastion of right wing propaganda) wrote this about it: "That this two-night miniseries has turned into far more than a mere fictionalized lead-up-to-September 11 rehash has grown increasingly clear over the past few days. It's now an incendiary political football that has sent the buzz meter racing throughout the blogosphere for its purportedly skewed depiction of events. That it also happens to be powerfully acted, artfully produced and shot like a truly riveting page-turner is sure to be overshadowed by the controversy it is generating." I wonder how many of you who have pre-judged something you haven't even seen, will at least give it a chance and give ABC even a sliver of a benefit of doubt. Afterall, ABC is one of those networks that was found in one study to have favored Kerry in its election coverage. Just curious. B n.p.: Nina Simone - "Feeling Good" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:30:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" hey Brenda, I will watch it, for sure. Is it just me, or does it seem a little soon to be making a docudrama about 9/11? maybe it doesn't matter. I feel like the Republicans make alot of anti-Democrat noise, so I feel like its my duty to throw some back at them, to the small extent I am able. The Democrats are being mellow to the point of submission, I sometimes feel. I know, its cuz we smoke pot.... Em :) - --- Brenda wrote:> > I wonder how many of you who have pre-judged something you haven't > even > seen, will at least give it a chance and give ABC even a sliver of a > benefit of doubt. Afterall, ABC is one of those networks that was > found > in one study to have favored Kerry in its election coverage. > > Just curious. > B > > n.p.: Nina Simone - "Feeling Good" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:00:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" From their website - an excerpt from their CEO: "We posted a discussion guide on Wednesday, August 23, which we believe was not in keeping with our high standardsband we took down that guide on Wednesday, September 6. We have rewritten this guide to focus more sharply on the issues of the docudrama as well as the background events." So yes, funny as it sounds, they *revised* their own discussion guides - probably when they were taken to task for its inaccuracy. I'm not privy to the facts, but don't you think an organization that's sole purpose is the education of children would get something like this right the first time? As to their "high standards" (I used the term criteria), you'll need to ask Scholastic what their standards are. Here's their credo, which apparantly they fell short of this time: http://www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/credo.htm And according to everything I read, hundreds of video copies had already been distributed for preview. In the blogosphere, where rumors run rampant but usually contain as much truth as you see anywhere else. Of course not - but I do believe that the Democrats will not exploit the ignorant for their own benefit as much as this administration has done. I firmly believe that. Bob NP: Aerosmith, "Walkin' The Dog" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:53:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" > Em wrote: >> Its as if a Michael Moore movie were airing in prime time as fact, and >> being taught in the schools as fact (rather than just as something to >> think about in a "maybe" or "what if" sense). It would never happen! >> > > But there's a difference between a Michael Moore film and this one. > Moore's films contain real people. This miniseries has actors, not the > real people. BUT the film claims to be based on the government's 9/11 report. So the facts of the film should be scrutinized whether it has actors, or not. Scholastic pulled the film guide because it suggests that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had a role in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The 9/11 never suggested that, even George Bush and his defenders have always tried to make that link. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:03:11 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" There's already been a feature film, so why not a docudrama? Em wrote: > hey Brenda, I will watch it, for sure. > Is it just me, or does it seem a little soon to be making a docudrama > about 9/11? maybe it doesn't matter. > I feel like the Republicans make alot of anti-Democrat noise, so I feel > like its my duty to throw some back at them, to the small extent I am > able. > The Democrats are being mellow to the point of submission, I sometimes > feel. > I know, its cuz we smoke pot.... > Em > :) > > --- Brenda wrote:> > >> I wonder how many of you who have pre-judged something you haven't >> even >> seen, will at least give it a chance and give ABC even a sliver of a >> benefit of doubt. Afterall, ABC is one of those networks that was >> found >> in one study to have favored Kerry in its election coverage. >> >> Just curious. >> B >> >> n.p.: Nina Simone - "Feeling Good" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:07:00 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Jerry Notaro wrote: > BUT the film claims to be based on the government's 9/11 report. So the > facts of the film should be scrutinized whether it has actors, or not. > I agree Jerry. And I would imagine that is why Thomas Kean agreed to be involved with it. > Scholastic pulled the film guide because it suggests that former Iraqi > leader Saddam Hussein had a role in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. > The 9/11 never suggested that, even George Bush and his defenders have > always tried to make that link. > Then good on Scholastic for correcting themselves. B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 12:59:19 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" dsknyc05 wrote: > Yes, let it air. But label it accurately! > It is labeled as a docudrama. I'd say that's accurate. > To claim it was based on the 9/11 Report, and then to > hear people who know exactly what's in that Report > talk about how the movie got it wrong... well, I'll > believe those experts before I'll believe some > conservative blowhard whining again about Democrats. > The chair of the 9/11 Commission, Thomas Kean who is responsible for the report and likely knows what's in it as much if not more than anyone else advised the production and will be on the ABC program at 10pm Monday to present his view of how he thinks the portrayal is even. Since he's one of those experts, do you believe him? > That's what makes me think most > Repubs are very stupid. It's unnatural to agree with > anyone, even the president, on EVERY issue. There are Republicans who didn't believe going into Iraq was the right choice, even as the Democrats went along with the vote for it. There are Republicans who disagree with Bush on spending, the size of government, stem cell research and immigration. Republicans disagreed with Bush about Harriet Myers. There were Republicans who disagreed with Bush about John Bolton. Reuters reports this morning that the Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee just released a report which states that "Saddam Hussein provided no material support for al Qaeda and had no relationship with al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi." You can find the report on the home page of the Senate Intelligence Committee web site. Do you really have any justification for "EVERY?" > I think ABC just recently applied the docudrama label. > Why do you think this? The minute the actors were hired it became a docudrama. I'm sure there are some "very stupid" television executives at ABC, but they do seem to know the difference between types of films and programs. > For good reason! Not everyone has sucked in the Repub > propaganda! > So the Democrats who voted for the Patriot Act and for going to war can be counted among the "very stupid" who were mysteriously hypnotized by the allure of Republican propaganda? The issue that I have with the complaining is that it often seems to be riddled with generalizations, hyperbole and just enough fact to be mis-representative. How can the left possibly hope to have their voices be taken seriously when they seem to favor complaint over acting constructively and proactively? How does calling people "very stupid" help? If the Democrats are to win elections, including the White House and if they are going to achieve anything when they do, they will need some of those very stupid Republicans to agree with and vote for them. That so many people can be swayed to "speak out against" something they haven't even seen is just as illustrative of propaganda as Republican efforts of the same nature. > Claiming the movie is based > on the 9/11 report and then putting in info that is > the complete opposite of that report is being > dishonest. > Why would Thomas Kean be willing to defend the miniseries if it contains info that is the complete opposite of his own work? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:24:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Music from Norway NJC Oddmund, thanks for the link but I couldn't get it to work. :o( Bob NP: Prince, "3121" "Oddmund Kaarevik" Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org 09/08/2006 07:43 AM Please respond to "Oddmund Kaarevik" To joni@smoe.org cc Subject Music from Norway Did any of you hear this - Susanna and her magocal orchetstra has the most beautiful version of Dolly Parton's "Jolene" you ever heard see the link below http://www.mic.no/mic.nsf/home/forsiden?opendocument&url=http://www.mic.no/mic.nsf/doc/art2004120114570096554360 bon weekend Oddmund, Norway - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:25:23 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Would you clarify? And when you say it doesn't meet their criteria, > what criteria specifically?> > > >From their website - an excerpt from their CEO: > > "We posted a discussion guide on Wednesday, August 23, which we believe > was not in keeping with our high standardsband we took down that guide on > Wednesday, September 6. We have rewritten this guide to focus more sharply > on the issues of the docudrama as well as the background events." > > So yes, funny as it sounds, they *revised* their own discussion guides - > probably when they were taken to task for its inaccuracy. So they revised their discussion guides but there was no declining of a donation. These are very different things to me so I'm glad you cleared it up. > I'm not privy to > the facts, but don't you think an organization that's sole purpose is the > education of children would get something like this right the first time? > I think they should get it right the first time but that doesn't mean they always do. Not many people can say that they have always gotten it right the first time. > As to their "high standards" (I used the term criteria), you'll need to > ask Scholastic what their standards are. Here's their credo, which > apparantly they fell short of this time: > > http://www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/credo.htm > I wouldn't say they fell short since they corrected themselves to meet their own standards. > > > And according to everything I read, hundreds of video copies had already > been distributed for preview. > It's not unusual to distribute video copies that are not final edits. > hear or see that they actually changed from what they had already > planned to do in editing anyway?> > > In the blogosphere, where rumors run rampant but usually contain as much > truth as you see anywhere else. > I disagree. I read a lot of garbage on blogs that is factually inaccurate or exaggerated for effect. Unless it was some insider from the production or ABC saying it, then no I don't believe it is true. > the Democrats, will they suddenly be smarter?> > > Of course not - but I do believe that the Democrats will not exploit the > ignorant for their own benefit as much as this administration has done. I > firmly believe that. > I wish I could agree with you Bob but I don't. The Democrats have exploited and failed the people before and they will do it again. The Democrat governor of Louisiana and the Democrat mayor of New Orleans failed those people. What are they doing and what have they done to address the abject poverty there? And please don't come back with what Bush did or what Bush said. Bush is Bush. What Bush didn't do does not excuse them their own responsibilities. Both those locally elected representatives owe their people regardless of what anyone else does. For years I sat in church with my parents and watched various Democrats parade through and make statements about what they were going to do for the black community. Very little of it ever materialized. The only time they came around was when there was an election. So they have a long way to go in earning that belief from me. B n.p.: Junior Parker - Next Time You See Me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:30:31 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Jerry Notaro wrote: > Scholastic pulled the film guide because it suggests that former Iraqi > leader Saddam Hussein had a role in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. > The 9/11 never suggested that, even George Bush and his defenders have > always tried to make that link. > By any chance, do you have that original discussion guide? I'd really like to read it. B n.p.: Nouvelle Vague - "Ever Fallen In Love?" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #325 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------