From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #323 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 7 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 323 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: Michael Hedges NJC [Bryan ] RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) [Em ] Re: Crikey! njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: NJC - Cat Stevens at mass [Catherine McKay ] RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC - Cat Stevens at mass [Catherine McKay ] RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) now (yech) proms [Catherine McKay ] The Music Biz - NJC ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] NJC Sarah Vaughan [Joseph Palis ] Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) ["Randy Remote" ] RE: njc - free, legal downloading from universal [Brenda ] RE: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" [Em ] Re: njc - free, legal downloading from universal [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) ["Lindsay Moon" ] Re: Crikey! njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Enough Said (not)... SCJoniGuy, Gnarls, Me'Shell, '87-'97, YouTube, etc. - NJC [Bob.Mulle] Broken Movies (NJC) [Smurf ] speaking of history (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Re: Broken Movies (NJC) ["Snatch N. Grabster" ] Re: Broken Movies (NJC) [Smurf ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:06:47 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) If you like Napoleon D, hopefully you've checked out the DVD with all the deleted scenes. And I also skipped the proms, mostly due to low self-esteem. I would have been just like Napoleon or Pedro, on the outside looking in. Any other non-Prommers out there? Bob NP: Al Jarreau, "Could You Believe" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: RE: Michael Hedges NJC From: rsc1@humboldt.edu Subject: Michael Hedges >> Michael Hedges is dead??? Michael Hedges sang??? >Yes to both questions. >Michael was driving home to Mendocino, CA, the day after Thanksgiving, >1997, in a terrible rainstorm, when his vehicle went off the twisting >two-lane highway. His body was not found until a few days later. >A huge loss to the music world. Hedges was one of the most unique and >groundbreaking guitarists to have graced the planet with his talents. >Truly an amazing player. >He always sang during his concerts, and released the first album to >feature his vocals in 1985, "Watching My Life Go By". Later albums >mixed vocal tunes with instrumentals. >Though it's been almost 9 years since his passing, I still miss his >playing, his wit, his view of the world. A wonderful and complex man. >Gus Yes, a remarkable talent. I have his Taproot CD -- beautiful and oh so melancholy. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Any > other > non-Prommers out there? uh...yeah... no prom for me. I think I was skipping school so much by then I wasn't even AWARE of the prom. My bro, OTOH, had 2 dates for the prom and then they busted a bathtub at a hotel afterwards. Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:47:58 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Crikey! njc Jim wrote: "He who lives by reckless behavior dies by reckless behavior." I stole that, Jim L. or is it behaviour? Hi Jim, So much for me then in my car as Don Juan's Reckless daughter! I'm working on slowing my driving down because I know I need to, or the consequences could be grim. My need for speed could kill me and others; I know, I know. I got a ticket for indulging in speeding recently. I tried to argue with the cop telling him how unfair it was for him to give me a ticket because because because, and I circled around and came back to where he was sitting a second time and asked him if he wanted to take the ticket back because surely my speeding shouldn't have counted. I can find all kinds of excuses why I need to speed and why I can't quit doing it at this moment, today, forever... I admit I am powerless over speeding and my driving has become unmanageable. There's the first step. Speeding and knowing the danger and doing it again anyway expecting to be spared is insanity... yes, I do believe a power greater than me can restore me to sanity, like you writing what you did above for instance and a friend who gently suggests I drive slower. I have made a decision to turn my will and my driving over by not arguing with and by listening to people who are more sane than me about this (cringe... even that cop who might have known what he was doing after all). Quickly inventorying my behaviour, I know I've offended and scared others on the road and passengers in my car by my driving. I've been a bad example to my kids. One of my friends won't ride with me any more... she takes her own car instead. One day at a time. Today I've done pretty good at slowing down, and I've even felt good about letting some people pass me. Thanks for sharing the powerful words you quoted above. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC - Cat Stevens at mass - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: Once at rehearsal, we had a > good old time thinking > up songs we would love to play, but obviously > couldn't, like Midnight Hour, > Come Together, etc. You get the idea.... > Have you seen the Simpsons' episode where Bart hands out copies of the music for "In the Garden of Eden" by I. Ron Butterfly? I woke up too early this morning, thinking of alternate song lyrics for Joni songs that might work for church. They were turning out pretty bad, so I quit while I was ahead, but here's a really bad example: Woke up, it was a Sunday morning and the first thing that I saw Was the Son through yellow curtains and a rainbow on my wall Blue, red, green and gold to welcome you Crimson rosary beads to beckon Oh, won't you stay, we'll put on a Mass There's a Son show every second. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:04:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > > Call it the "Napoleon Dynamite Effect" after the > film that I found > hilarious and compelling, but when someone asks you > what it's about, you > kinda just shrug your shoulders. "It's about two > hours long" is my > standard response. But the camera shot of the three > main characters at the > prom (showing them clearly out of the group) is a > classic. > > Bob > ... and i loved Napoleon Dynamite, so much so, that we bought the movie and I've watched it more than once (which is more than I can say about most films, even ones that I like a lot.) And yet, some likely hated it, or didn't get anything from it. A chacun son gout. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:00:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC - Cat Stevens at mass - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > I'm sure that Krishna and Christ are the same word.> > > You're sure?? > Let's bet - I could use the money for the weekend. > > Krishna & Christ are different words, obviously - > more important they are > totally different deities. > > Bob > Different deities, perhaps, but with more similarities than you might think. And don't forget that Greek and Latin have roots in ancient Sanskrit. Here's a web-page I found by googling "origin of word "Christ". http://www.salagram.net/jesus-christ-kristos-page.htm This guy seems to have an agenda, so I checked good ol' wikipedia as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ It seems the jury is out on the origin of the name, but reading about it is veddy interesting. where is the Rev Vince when you need him? YO, VINCE! I'd love to take your money and I know you'd love to take mine, so I guess we'll have to call it evensies and keep our dollars in our pockets for now. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:10:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) now (yech) proms - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > If you like Napoleon D, hopefully you've checked out > the DVD with all the > deleted scenes. > > And I also skipped the proms, mostly due to low > self-esteem. I would have > been just like Napoleon or Pedro, on the outside > looking in. Any other > non-Prommers out there? > > Bob > You? Low self-esteem? I did end up going to the prom, but it was just luck that I happened to meet a guy that I liked enough to ask and he liked me back, so he said yes. I went to an all-girls' school and although there was a boys' school next door and we shared some classes, there wasn't much opportunity to meet boys, especially when you were basically tongue-tied most of the time and very self-conscious. That was the first "date" I probably ever had. I would NEVER go back to high school and part of me thinks that proms should be outlawed because it encourages snootiness, princessing-out and over-spending. On the other hand, my daughter and a bunch of her friends went together, and most of them had no dates. And being gay and going with a same-sex partner is now OK too. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:13:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: now Madonna could be an artist NJC Brenda, Good points about how some artists are being supported in spite of not selling huge amount of records... one of the differences as I see it is that now huge is platinum but years ago huge was gold... it seems that the bar is so much higher for commercial success... also, to add a bit of the 'other side' to madonnna's maverick label helping other artists- they have also done the very same thing that the 'big' labels have done which is to sign an artist & done nothing with them.. (this happened to a local rising star band quite a few years ago...that as far as I know is defunct after languishing in maverick limbo for too long) >Or how about if both options happened to be true? The second option absolutely happens these days (despite all the generalized nay saying I've read on this list) and I would even argue that it's to no less a degree than it ever has been. It's just that artist development is happening in a variety of places. Ben Harper has been with Virgin for 14 years and he's never come close to a platinum album.< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:11:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: NJC Sarah Vaughan Hi Clive and Brenda, Actually I was lucky enough to get "Sarah Vaughan Sings Michel Legrand" on CD via eBay two years ago. It was hard to buy that rarity of a CD because rabid fans from all over the globe are also keeping their hawk-eyes on it. I knew that previous experience when I lost in previous bids. But thanks to the autosniping mechanism that bids for you automatically. But that's another story. Sarah once said she wished someone would write her an opera so she can sing in it the way she always dreamed of, although quite frankly she would be great in tried-and-tested roles such as Polinesso in "Ariodante" or Ortrud in "Lohengrin". The one performance where Sarah showcased her operatic range was in her Grammy-winning "Gershwin Live" album. She did "My Man's Gone Now" with such intensity helped no doubt by the Wagnerian opening of conductor Michael Tilson Thomas. She started slowly with "Myyy man's . . . gooone nowww...." then as the Los Angeles Philharmonic shadowed her grief for her man throughout the song, she ended with a feverish "Since my man . . . since my man . . . is ... goooone!" that made her hit a high note (a high B?) and sustained it for about 7 seconds, then her voice spiralled downwards like a fallen bird bringing with it the pathos of her fruitless search for her lover. Very moving and as close to an grandly operatic performance as it can get. But don't just rely on my observations, you can hear the thunderous applause and bravos of the audience after that. Chills. I also like her to sing Bacharach-Costello songs since I think her style fits the melancholy of most songs, although I would also like her to sing maybe a Joni song. If she acquitted herself in the "Sings Songs of the Beatles" with "Come Together", maybe she can do a breakneck "Banquet" or an ultra slow "Man From Mars". I dont know why I like voices of most singers in their final years even if they sound a bit out of tune (although I don't think I will revisit Anita O'Day's recent album anytime soon). Ella's last album called "All that Jazz" in 1990 made me cringe in some parts but I still like the musicality in her approach to songs. That is the part that she always brings to a song even if she had to push herself harder to make it happen. Anyone listen to Morgana King's albums? She has a killer set of pipes that seems to achieve a delightful husk in her much later albums. And yes she also starred as Mama Corleone in the Godfather movies. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Dexter Gordon "Don't Explain" clive sax a icrit : Hi all, haven't piped up for a long long while - Love to Ashara and all. I'm really enjoying the Sarah Content. I was so impressed by Her now-out-of-print "Sings Michel Legrand" is a religious experience, yes? I have treated that album as the Sarah Vaughan holy Grail. I have it on Vinyl and when I moved house in january just gone it was one of the first things I checked as I unloaded my boxes. Her output during the 70's was lovely. I think much of that catalogue is owned by a company called mainstream. I often poke around on the internet seeing if those albums have been re-released. I have 'A Time in my life' on CD contemporary songs of the day performed with the likes of Joe Pass, Benny Powell, Dave Grusin and a host of world class sessioners. My favourite being Carly simons 'That's the Way i've always heard it should be'. It's an interesting question, what would she perform and record if she were still with us? As it's an unknown I would hate to hazard a guess but I would have loved her to record some Bacharach and David, A house is not a home/One less bell to answer, wanting things, God give me strength, would I think have been quite quite outstanding. As an aside Rene fleming recognized Sarahs Operatic qualities and believed she would have, had she wanted, made a wonderful World class Mezzo -Soprano/Contralto . Now there's another question for all you Sarah fans....Would have rather had Sarah as she was or would you have preferred her singing all those 'witches bitches and breeches roles' in all the Great opera houses around the world! Clive NP Singers unlimited - Since you asked - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:18:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: The Music Biz - NJC I guess I'm not the only one thinking about this. Recently from TechDirt: Rethinking The Music Industry Business Model... Finally Going Mainstream from the can't-stop-the-trend dept For all the complaints we have about the way the RIAA conducts its business, we have always been optimistic that things would get sorted out eventually. It wasn't the music industry that was in trouble at all -- just the traditional recording labels. People often accuse us of hating the music industry, which is totally incorrect. When we discuss music industry strategies it's hoping that they recognize that these new business models have the potential to be much bigger than the old ones. This is based on a few simple ideas that really shouldn't be that hard to grasp, unless you're desperately tied to an existing business model and unwilling to change. First, treating all your customers as criminals doesn't create much loyalty or willingness to buy your product. Especially in a market where the product is based on being a fan, not filling a need. You want your fans to be happy -- not pissed off. Second, the basic economics are there. On the supply and demand curve the supply of digital goods is infinite, meaning that the trend over time will absolutely be for the price to get pushed towards zero. It's just the way the market works. That's not a bad thing if you embrace it and recognize that, rather than lost revenue, free content represents free promotion. After all, the hardest part of becoming a success in the music business is the marketing to get your product known. The third, and final, aspect of this is how new technologies have dramatically decreased the costs of every other aspect of the music business. Creation, publishing and distribution are all now much cheaper due to the onward march of technology, forcing a shift in how we think about copyright issues. Based on all of this, it's not hard to come up with a variety of different business models that are based on (1) using the music as a promotional good to get a lot more attention in a crowded market (2) offering customers what they want, and offering them plenty of different ways to get it and (3) building tremendous loyalty from happy customers who feel much closer to the musicians and are much more willing to spend money on secondary products (merchandise, concerts, access). Plenty of musicians have figured this out, and now it's moving further and further away from being a "fringe" idea and into the mainstream music business. Wired Magazine is running a bunch of articles about how the industry is realizing this, with two pieces that are definitely worth reading. There's an interview with Beck where he discusses continually giving fans more ways to interact with the content, and not worrying about things appearing on the internet. However, even more interesting is the article about Canadian music management and music label firm Nettwerk. You may remember that name from their announcement earlier this year that they would pay the legal fees for a teen sued for file sharing one of their own artists. The article also discusses how Nettwerk recognizes all of what we discuss above, in that it's encouraging each band on its roster to build its own label, and focus not just on how to "sell a CD," but on selling the entire experience of the music. When you look at things that way, it means you don't worry if some of the music is heard for free, because that just encourages more interest in other things the band is selling. It's also looking to try experiments similar to the recently announced Sellaband, who focuses on getting people to "invest" in a musician to help them pay for a recording, in exchange for a share of the later profits. In other words, the industry is evolving -- in many of the ways that plenty of people have been predicting all along. This is a good thing -- and one of these days the old record labels will finally recognize the mistakes they've made... or simply disappear. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:34:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: NJC Sarah Vaughan Hi Clive and Brenda, Actually I was lucky enough to get "Sarah Vaughan Sings Michel Legrand" on CD via eBay two years ago. It was hard to buy that rarity of a CD because rabid fans from all over the globe are also keeping their hawk-eyes on it. I knew that previous experience when I lost in previous bids. But thanks to the autosniping mechanism that bids for you automatically. But that's another story. Sarah once said she wished someone would write her an opera so she can sing in it the way she always dreamed of, although quite frankly she would be great in tried-and-tested roles such as Polinesso in "Ariodante" or Ortrud in "Lohengrin". The one performance where Sarah showcased her operatic range was in her Grammy-winning "Gershwin Live" album. She did "My Man's Gone Now" with such intensity helped no doubt by the Wagnerian opening of conductor Michael Tilson Thomas. She started slowly with "Myyy man's . . . gooone nowww...." then as the Los Angeles Philharmonic shadowed her grief for her man throughout the song, she ended with a feverish "Since my man . . . since my man . . . is ... goooone!" that made her hit a high note (a high B?) and sustained it for about 7 seconds, then her voice spiralled downwards like a fallen bird bringing with it the pathos of her fruitless search for her lover. Very moving and as close to an grandly operatic performance as it can get. But don't just rely on my observations, you can hear the thunderous applause and bravos of the audience after that. Chills. I also like her to sing Bacharach-Costello songs since I think her style fits the melancholy of most songs, although I would also like her to sing maybe a Joni song. If she acquitted herself in the "Sings Songs of the Beatles" with "Come Together", maybe she can do a breakneck "Banquet" or an ultra slow "Man From Mars". I dont know why I like voices of most singers in their final years even if they sound a bit out of tune (although I don't think I will revisit Anita O'Day's recent album anytime soon). Ella's last album called "All that Jazz" in 1990 made me cringe in some parts but I still like the musicality in her approach to songs. That is the part that she always brings to a song even if she had to push herself harder to make it happen. Anyone listen to Morgana King's albums? She has a killer set of pipes that seems to achieve a delightful husk in her much later albums. And yes she also starred as Mama Corleone in the Godfather movies. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Dexter Gordon "Don't Explain" clive sax a icrit : Hi all, haven't piped up for a long long while - Love to Ashara and all. I'm really enjoying the Sarah Content. I was so impressed by Her now-out-of-print "Sings Michel Legrand" is a religious experience, yes? I have treated that album as the Sarah Vaughan holy Grail. I have it on Vinyl and when I moved house in january just gone it was one of the first things I checked as I unloaded my boxes. Her output during the 70's was lovely. I think much of that catalogue is owned by a company called mainstream. I often poke around on the internet seeing if those albums have been re-released. I have 'A Time in my life' on CD contemporary songs of the day performed with the likes of Joe Pass, Benny Powell, Dave Grusin and a host of world class sessioners. My favourite being Carly simons 'That's the Way i've always heard it should be'. It's an interesting question, what would she perform and record if she were still with us? As it's an unknown I would hate to hazard a guess but I would have loved her to record some Bacharach and David, A house is not a home/One less bell to answer, wanting things, God give me strength, would I think have been quite quite outstanding. As an aside Rene fleming recognized Sarahs Operatic qualities and believed she would have, had she wanted, made a wonderful World class Mezzo -Soprano/Contralto . Now there's another question for all you Sarah fans....Would have rather had Sarah as she was or would you have preferred her singing all those 'witches bitches and breeches roles' in all the Great opera houses around the world! Clive NP Singers unlimited - Since you asked - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:11:19 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) > --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> Any >> other >> non-Prommers out there? > > uh...yeah... no prom for me. I think I was skipping school so much by > then I wasn't even AWARE of the prom. > My bro, OTOH, had 2 dates for the prom and then they busted a bathtub > at a hotel afterwards. > Em > No proms or football games for me-maybe I went to one game. All that rah-rah...I just did what all the other non-conformers did...ha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:13:29 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: RE: njc - free, legal downloading from universal Jerry, I understand loss leaders. Big box retailers have used music as just that for years now. More on that later. But what do you mean by other products? What are the other products? When you say "cd's and such," what is the "and such?" - -----Original Message----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Brenda" Cc: "Joni List" Sent: 09/07/06 05:51 AM Subject: Re: njc - free, legal downloading from universal Total profit is the amount made from all ventures to promote and sell a product. Big, successful retail giants long ago learned the the benefits of "loss leaders" getting people into the store. The same goes for downloading and the sales of the recording industry's other products (cd's and such.) For years grocers thought it was lunacy to sell anything below cost. Now they have learned better. I'll give you an example. For years, Broadway producers would never let movies of their product be released until the profits from the stage shows had "played out." They thought it would cut in to their attendance. How short sighted. Why not apply the same philosophy to the sales of their soundtracks and not release them until the end of the run? Ridiculous, right? Some of them didn't want the scenes being shown on television. Why "give away" the product? Right? The classic example is Hello Dolly, a huge success on record and stage. David Merrick held off releasing the movie until the final gasp of the last touring diva and by then people had lost interest. Then along came Grease. A huge movie success which bolstered the live attendance for years. Now the marketing strategies have totally reversed. Think of the internet as the Ed Sullivan Show of 50 years ago. Think what you can gain by exposing product, rather than lose by giving it away. Jerry > Jerry, > > I really want to continue this discussion with you but first I have a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:59:39 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" I believe that a > dialogue where people are open and receptive despite their opposing > views would be progress compared to where it seems we are now. > B Absolutely. But substitute the word 'media' for 'dialogue' in the above sentence and we're getting more to the crux of the argument. 90-something percent of the people get their "news" from TV- surely the most corrupt, propangandistic source imaginable-a monopoly that shapes the beliefs and emotions of the populace in a way never before seen in history. These are George Bush's billionaire friends. I see no reason to let their manipulations stand without challenge. As to offering an opposing view, you know, once the initial impression is set, retractions have very little effect. Should we trust Disney or Clarke? I'll go with Clarke. These are, after all, the networks that did nothing to challenge the lies about WMD, two stolen elections, swiftboat smears, and on and on and on. I think we can expect another whitewash-and I don't think they will pull it due to complaints from the left, but at least they will know we're not swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:45:02 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" Randy, Can you supply a source for your 90-something percent number? Because overall network and news ratings have been dropping for some time now. Newspaper circulation numbers have been dropping as well because there are more alternatives for news and information now then there ever have been. Retractions are one thing but the presentation of an opposing view is another. I think it's one thing to complain (there is certainly no shortage of that from the left) and another thing to make an effort to oppose by presenting another view. I know the old quote about not underestimating the stupidity of the public, but I do believe that people should have the right to make up their own minds. And since this is all being talked about within the context of elections, I'd find it interesting to learn what percentage of the electorate gets their news from TV and only TV and not from other sources like radio, web sites, podcasts, etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" I believe that a > dialogue where people are open and receptive despite their opposing > views would be progress compared to where it seems we are now. > B Absolutely. But substitute the word 'media' for 'dialogue' in the above sentence and we're getting more to the crux of the argument. 90-something percent of the people get their "news" from TV- surely the most corrupt, propangandistic source imaginable-a monopoly that shapes the beliefs and emotions of the populace in a way never before seen in history. These are George Bush's billionaire friends. I see no reason to let their manipulations stand without challenge. As to offering an opposing view, you know, once the initial impression is set, retractions have very little effect. Should we trust Disney or Clarke? I'll go with Clarke. These are, after all, the networks that did nothing to challenge the lies about WMD, two stolen elections, swiftboat smears, and on and on and on. I think we can expect another whitewash-and I don't think they will pull it due to complaints from the left, but at least they will know we're not swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:00:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Crikey! njc now Laura the Leadfoot Yes - a power called CRUISE CONTROL. And another two-word power...CAR STEREO. I love listening to music in the car, so I'm never in a hurry to get where I'm going. Matter of fact, I'm probably a HAZARD because I drive 55 mph in a 55 zone. Although I always stay in the "slow lane", cars come right up on my rear and will stay there for miles before going around me. Why? I have no idea. 30 years on the road, no tickets. Kinda speaks for itself. I can buy LOTS of music with all the money that kind of record saves me on car insurance. Bob NP: Ani, "Going Once" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:04:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) now (yech) proms It's a crazy freakin' racket! Now you have pre-proms, dinner, the actual prom (which is pretty anticlimactic), after-prom, and after-after prom. Not making any of that up, as you are probably aware. I guess it stems from the fact that kids would get liquored up before and/or after the thing so they make it practically a 24-hour event. Yech is right. Bob NP: Laura Nyro, "Lite A Flame (The Animal Rights Song)" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:12:41 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) I actually felt sorry for the poor cheerleaders who were just SO FULL of school spirit and me and my friends were just SO APATHETIC. We would just sit on our hands at all the Pep Rallies. But there was ONE cheer that we'd go nutty over...in Raleigh, there was an Aycock High School, and whenever we were at a pep rally before an Aycock game, the cheerleaders would holler "WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO TONIGHT?" to which we would all joyfully respond.... "BEAT AYCOCK!!!" Ah, school days... Bob NP: Bruce S, "She's The One" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:03:42 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: And They Vote - Humour - NJC Thought you would get a laugh out of these! Some guy bought a new fridge for his house. To get rid of his old fridge, he put it in his front yard and hung a sign on it saying: "Free to good home.You want it, you take it". For three days the fridge sat there without even one person looking twice at it. He eventually decided that people were too untrusting of this deal. It looked to good to be true, so he changed the sign to read: "Fridge for sale $50". The next day someone stole it. Caution ... These people vote............ While looking at a house, my brother asked the real estate agent which direction was north because, he explained, he didn't want the sun waking him up every morning. She asked, "Does the sun rise in the North?" When my brother explained that the sun rises in the East, and has for sometime, she shook her head and said, "Oh, I don't keep up with that stuff." She also votes........... I used to work in technical support for a 24/7 call center. One day I got a call from an individual who asked what hours the call center was open. I told him, "The number you dialed is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week." He responded, "Is that Eastern or Pacific time?" Wanting to end the call quickly, I said, "Uh, Pacific" .... He also votes......... My colleague and I were eating our lunch in our cafeteria, when we overheard one of the administrative assistants talking about the sunburn she got on her weekend drive to the shore. She drove down in a convertible, but "didn't think she'd get sunburned because the car was moving". . . . . . . . . She also votes.......... My sister has a lifesaving tool in her car It's designed to cut through a seat belt if she gets trapped. She keeps it in the trunk. My sister also votes........... My friends and I were on a beer run and noticed that the cases were discounted 10%. Since it was a big party, we bought 2 cases. The cashier multiplied 2 times 10% and gave us a 20% discount. He also votes. I was hanging out with a friend when we saw a woman with a nose ring attached to an earring by a chain. My friend said, "Wouldn't the chain rip out every time she turned her head?" I explained that a person's nose and ear remain the same distance apart no matter which way the head is turned. . . . . . My friend also votes ......... I couldn't find my luggage at the airport baggage area. So I went to the lost luggage office and told the woman there that my bags never showed up. She smiled and told me not to worry because she was a trained professional and I was in good hands. "Now," she asked me, "has your plane arrived yet? " . . . .she also votes! While working at a Pizza Parlor I observed a man ordering a small pizza to go. He appeared to be alone and the cook asked him if he would like it cut into 4 pieces or 6. He though about it for some time before responding. "Just cut it into 4 pieces; I don't think I'm hungry enough to eat 6 pieces. Yep, he votes too. And they walk among us, and reproduce. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:03:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: njc, Tell ABC we "Don't Need No More Lies!" you know what though?? this thing is getting HUGE. I'm starting to read about it all over. Americablog has some interesting comments. http://americablog.blogspot.com/ (good to me, anyway, I'm sure others may feel otherwise) I have a feeling its going to be a big ol hairy deal. Some zit is going to be force-popped over this. Maybe! Forgive me if I seem jolly over it, but I'm overwhelmed by gallows humor. Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:16:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc - free, legal downloading from universal Vinyl, concerts, downloads, merchandise such as tee shirts, music books, product endorsements, etc. Jerry > Jerry, > I understand loss leaders. Big box retailers have used music as just that for > years now. More on that later. > > But what do you mean by other products? What are the other products? When you > say "cd's and such," what is the "and such?" > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jerry Notaro" > To: "Brenda" > Cc: "Joni List" > Sent: 09/07/06 05:51 AM > Subject: Re: njc - free, legal downloading from universal > > Total profit is the amount made from all ventures to promote and sell a > product. Big, successful retail giants long ago learned the the benefits of > "loss leaders" getting people into the store. The same goes for downloading > and the sales of the recording industry's other products (cd's and such.) > For years grocers thought it was lunacy to sell anything below cost. Now > they have learned better. I'll give you an example. For years, Broadway > producers would never let movies of their product be released until the > profits from the stage shows had "played out." They thought it would cut in > to their attendance. How short sighted. Why not apply the same philosophy to > the sales of their soundtracks and not release them until the end of the > run? Ridiculous, right? Some of them didn't want the scenes being shown on > television. Why "give away" the product? Right? The classic example is Hello > Dolly, a huge success on record and stage. David Merrick held off releasing > the movie until the final gasp of the last touring diva and by then people > had lost interest. Then along came Grease. A huge movie success which > bolstered the live attendance for years. Now the marketing strategies have > totally reversed. Think of the internet as the Ed Sullivan Show of 50 years > ago. Think what you can gain by exposing product, rather than lose by giving > it away. > > Jerry > > >> Jerry, >> >> I really want to continue this discussion with you but first I have a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lama \(Jim L*Hommedieu\)" Subject: Re: Crikey! njc Crikey, I wasn't for serious! On the other hand, I've been able to "talk" my way out of 2 speed tickets. Here's how: Cop: "Do you know how fast you were going, Mister Lama-doo?" Jim: "Oh, yeah, I was speeding. You got me fair and square, I guess." Cop: "Well, just take it easy, okay?" Slowing down in my old age (pun intended), Jim L. PS, Laura, if you slow down, you might add 20 years of listening to music to your life. That's my incentive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:50:25 -0700 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) Yeah, how could I have time to go to the prom when I was locked in my room with Joni Mitchell albums?? (Okay, so I was not popular and no one would have asked me) But look where my then life got me today! Here on this great list! Lindsay - -----Original Message----- From: Randy Remote [mailto:guitarzan@hughes.net] Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:11 AM To: Em; Bob.Muller@Fluor.com; Lindsay Moon Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) > --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> Any >> other >> non-Prommers out there? > > uh...yeah... no prom for me. I think I was skipping school so much by > then I wasn't even AWARE of the prom. > My bro, OTOH, had 2 dates for the prom and then they busted a bathtub > at a hotel afterwards. > Em > No proms or football games for me-maybe I went to one game. All that rah-rah...I just did what all the other non-conformers did...ha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:28:58 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Crikey! njc Bob wrote: Yes - a power called CRUISE CONTROL. And another two-word power...CAR STEREO. Jim wrote: PS, Laura, if you slow down, you might add 20 years of listening to music to your life. That's my incentive. Thank you both. I will now think of my higher power whom I chose to call, jammin' JimBo, when I am tempted to drive like a race car driver, and I will chant the mantra, "the slower I go the more tunes I'll know." Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:23:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Enough Said (not)... SCJoniGuy, Gnarls, Me'Shell, '87-'97, YouTube, etc. - NJC True, but I hope the latter doesn't totally disappear. I've saved lots of $1 bills. As for MeShell's "Plantation Lullabies", you are correct. Funny thing about that record, I checked it out way back when from the library without knowing anything about her, listened to it once and wasn't overly excited about it. Now that I'm more fully immersed in her work I need to go back and pick up on that one again as most critics count it among her best work. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks too for the response about Gnarls/Cee-Lo, my son absolutely loved that disc and I enjoyed what I heard spilling down the stairs whenever he played it - it reminded me of the 70's soul sounds that I cut my teeth on. And I've seen some of the photos of Cee-Lo & Danger Mouse in full Star Wars regalia, outrageous for sure. Bob NP: Ben Folds, "Jesusland" live at Bonaroo 06-16-06 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 13:28:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Broken Movies (NJC) How about spoiler alerts, folks, when you're about to spill plots or key scenes from films? Since yesterday I have read more than I wanted to know about 2 movies I would like to see some day. --Smurf - --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:01:14 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: speaking of history (njc) De-lurking for this one. Sorry, been up to my neck in alligators, I mean work... Anyway, I downloaded a few Al Stewart songs, including Nostradamus. Granted, the lyrics are in part his interpretation of some of the prophecies. But I find the final verse eery: - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the new lands of America three brothers now shall come to power Two alone are born to rule but all must die before their hour Two great men yet brothers not make the north united stand Its power be seen to grow, and fear possess the eastern lands Three leagues from the gates of Rome a Pope named Pol is doomed to die A great wall that divides a city at this time is cast aside These are the signs I bring to you to show you when the time is nigh - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was released in 1974. Pope Paul VI died at the pope's summer retreat 13 miles from the Vatican in 1979. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. I also wonder about the interpretation of "Two great men yet brother not... eastern lands" lines. I originally thought it referred to the Civil War, but now I wonder if it could refer to the WTC towers, and "fear posess the eastern lands" refer to the Iraq debacle? Of course, you can interpret lyrics as you want, but still I find it curious. Makes me almost want to go back and read some of the quatrains in the original French... Or maybe it's all just like a tea leaf prophecy??? lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:50:50 -0500 From: "Snatch N. Grabster" Subject: Re: Broken Movies (NJC) Since nothing definitve really happens in Broken Flowers, obviously this can't be one of the two movies you refer to. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Broken Movies (NJC) - --- "Snatch N. Grabster" wrote: > Since nothing definitve really happens in Broken > Flowers, obviously > this can't be one of the two movies you refer to. > You're kidding, right? This is your post from yesterday, which really should have had a warning: << Well, of course the audience will never really know for sure whether the boy he met was really his son. But the implication is that he isn't. this is undercut by casting one of Bill Murray's real sons in the part. So, on one level we know he is the son, on another level we think it's just coincidence they met. But that is just the point. If indeed he had a son, they would just be strangers. His son could be anyone- if he existed at all. But if the letter that sends Bill Murray on his adventure was actually planted by his girlfriend, then it was just an excuse to shake him up a bit and get him to find out who he is. At the film's end, he seems ready to reconnect with his girlfriend (who left him at just the moment the letter arrives) and perhaps have a real child. So, the movie is about making connections. PS- One of the actresses who plays an ex-girlfriend was the mother on Six Feet Under, and her part here is playing against what we expect from seeing her on TV... >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #323 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------