From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #321 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 7 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 321 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: now Madonna could be an artist NJC [Brenda ] Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) ["Snatch N. Grabster" ] Re: RE : Re: Music to do it by... Sarah Vaughan - NJC [Brenda ] RE : RE: Broken Flowers and other movies (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re: RE : RE: Broken Flowers and other movies (NJC) ["Snatch N. Grabster" ] Re: movie music NJC ["ron" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:49:04 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: now Madonna could be an artist NJC mike pritchard wrote: > > Point taken, but I guess for Madonna (and Maverick) the decision to > sign Meshell was 'intended' to be commercial. > Sure, but how many labels have ever signed artists without the "intention" of achieving commercial success? There are certainly those rare few that are or were started as the fantasy realized for some multi-millionaire, willing to continually pump in cash. (I worked for one of those. When he got bored, the money stopped and the label closed its doors.) Or the labors of love started by people who said they didn't care about making money. But labels have to turn a profit to keep their doors open like any other business. > How it worked out in practice was another thing. That they continued > for 10 years must prove something, but I am not sure what. > All things considered, I'm surprised they made it 10 years. > Did they imagine that one day the would recoup the money, or did they > think that she had real talent and was worth supporting, despite the > bottom line. Maybe the second option does not happen these days. > Or how about if both options happened to be true? The second option absolutely happens these days (despite all the generalized nay saying I've read on this list) and I would even argue that it's to no less a degree than it ever has been. It's just that artist development is happening in a variety of places. Ben Harper has been with Virgin for 14 years and he's never come close to a platinum album. Virgin has had FIVE different label presidents since he was signed but each one has believed in him. k.d. lang has been in the Warner Group for almost 20 years, 14 years after her platinum album and last major commercial success. The Roots have been signed with one or another of the Universal labels for 11 years and they were specifically told to stay true to what they do with their new album, in keeping with the "arty" side of hip hop. Rosanne Cash has recorded for Capitol for ten years without a hit in sight. Shelby Lynne was signed to Capitol after what was a commercial bomb and the very weak sales for "I Am Shelby Lynne" despite how much attention she got for it. I'll bet that she sticks around awhile because she is supported and has had creative freedom with the two she's done there so far. These are just the first that come to mind but they aren't alone. B n.p.: Monk/Coltrane - "Abide With Me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:16:03 -0500 From: "Snatch N. Grabster" Subject: Re: Broken Flowers (NJC) The filmmakers left clues in the picture that lead you to think Bill Murray's girlfriend actually planned the entire "adventure" to shake him out of his torpor (possibly in cahoots with his next door neighbor). At the beginning, he seems not to care about much of anything, but after he's been out of his "comfort zone" for a while and encounters various women from his past, he returns a changed man. At the end of the movie, after he sees someone he thinks could be his son (played by one of Bill Murray's real sons), you get the impression that now he wants to become a father more than anything. You see, the audience is supposed to do some of the brainwork here. Unlike many other films, this one does not spell everything out for the viewer and tie it all together in a neat package at the end. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 23:18:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Broken Flowers (NJC) - --- anon anon wrote: > I have a suggestion for you: see it next time > with different eyes... > and with an open minded attitude... I don't know > what type of movies you > like, but BF was basically an "art movie"... Hmm, I usually do have an open mind, but I guess close-minded people think that about themselves. Maybe if someone other than Bill Murray had been in it... although I loved "lost in translation". I kind of had it figured out that it was set up by the current girlfriend but, at the end, still had to ask, "So what?" Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:35:18 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: RE : Re: Music to do it by... Sarah Vaughan - NJC Joseph, I agree completely about both Sarah and the album. Your description of "Love and Passion" is spot on. I remember playing this album for a friend who didn't know either artist particularly well and they got lost in the blend...and other things... so it worked for me on the MTDIB tip. Heh. What a great duet. I also love those low notes in "Romance." Her voice was certainly no longer bright and bouncy as it was on a recording like "At Mister Kelly's" and certainly the years of smoking had changed it but to me it was altered in the way that aged oak changes the grapes... not that I'm advocating smoking because I'm not into it at all. And I often wonder what she would have recorded had she lived longer. There are some really wonderful players on the recordings as well-Dori Caymmi, George Duke (a phenom who I think is so underrated because he is most well-known for his funky pop records), Paulinho Da Costa, Hubert Laws and produced by Sergio Mendes who just had a mention here. Good stuff. B n.p.: Sarah - "Romance" Joseph Palis wrote: > I agree with this album. Maybe not so much as MTDIB but as a vastly underrated last album of the divine jewel of jazz - Sarah Vaughan. Her duet with Milton Nascimento in "Love and Passion" is as honeyed as anyone can get. Their voices melding and sometimes indistinguishable from each other. Plus her version of "Fotografia" is quietly affecting. > > Joseph in Chapel Hill > np: Madeleine Peyroux "Reckless Blues" > > Brenda a icrit : > > Sarah Vaughan - Brazilian Romance > > > > --------------------------------- > Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:41:20 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: njc - free, legal downloading from universal Jerry, I really want to continue this discussion with you but first I have a question. What do you mean by "total profit?" B n.p.: Sarah Vaughan - "So Many Stars" Jerry Notaro wrote: > Well there is no question that the Internet can create "buzz" and it isn't > the amount of files but total profit that counts. Making one song available > to promote the sale of an entire cd makes sense. Or making lo-fi files > available free for new fans to listen and then decide if they want the whole > cd for pay. Or having separate types of "song banks" available for a types > of music for reasonable fees. Many cd's are available now cheaper than > downloading. And yet distributors want to raise the price of downloading. > The point is, they need to be creative, not just promote the philosophy all > downloading is bad for business. Downloading has saved the recording > industry in all its forms. > > Jerry > > > >> Jerry Notaro wrote: >> >>> No question. It is all set. You can download and listen, but not transfer, >>> burn, send, or transfer. And it is a slow download where you are subjected >>> to a barrage of ads while downloading. >>> >>> J. >>> >>> >>> >> SpiralFrog is pretty much a non-starter and isn't all that radically >> new. The DRM and the ads are their own doing. >> >> Based on the comments about this, I have a question. Unless the >> performer, songwriter, publisher and label are all willing to give the >> download away without being paid, what model for free files do you guys >> think makes sense if it's not advertising? >> >> B >> >> n.p.: Citizen Cope - "Karma Police" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 00:14:41 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Cat Stevens at mass Kakki replied to Catherine ">There was a guy that used to sing "The circle >game" at Mass when I was >young. Same here! When I (infrequently) attended Mass at the local campus church in college, all of our "hymms" were contemporary. Circle Game, a few from Cat Stevens including "Morning Has Broken," the classic "Get Together" and a few others from the day. Kakki My wife was totally unfamiliar with Cat Stevens until I played her a few of his songs on the guitar (which she seemed to like) and encouraged her to pick up a few of his earlier album in CD form. She's now crazy about him. (I've got the DVD of mid-70's concert - pretty good, pretty much fun). He was always a spiritual writer, really. Notwithstanding that the eagle and the serpent were at war in him. I think it was exemplary and instructive that he ultimately resolved his struggles via the route that he chose. I suspect that his indiscretions, if any, were unintentional and - in any event - overblown. I could be wrong; I'm not a bleeding heart in this company, but I am a Joni Mitchell lover. :-) Bob Sart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:34:10 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Enough Said (not)... SCJoniGuy, Gnarls, Me'Shell, '87-'97, YouTube, etc. - NJC Bob Muller wrote: > Brenda - thanks for making up for your long > absence in one night. Great reading this morning > from you and everyone. > Bob, I've been remiss in thanking you for your warm and kind words for my return. I see that the various SCJoniGuy crushes are still alive and well... with good reason. ;-) I'll save the politics for another day when I haven't been up longer than I like but I did want to respond to your inquiry about Gnarls Barkley along with a couple of other things. I am very happy for Cee-Lo Green because he's a really wonderful vocalist and MC. He deserves it. He was an original member of Goodie Mob, which was pretty much overshadowed by Outkast, but both really put the Atlanta hip hop scene on the map in a way that was very different and more assertive than Arrested Development. Interestingly enough, Goodie Mob and Outkast were signed to deals by Babyface and L.A. Reid who were more well-known for writing songs for and producing people like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Boys II Men and Toni Braxton. To say they were willing to take a risk is an understatement I think. Cee-Lo is a fascinating dude and if you like his voice, you may want to check out his solo recordings, especially "Cee-Lo Green... is the Soul Machine." I loved "Crazy" from the moment I heard it, but I wish there were more songs on the full length as infectious. It's not really there. People think Outkast can be outrageous but Cee-Lo and his Perfect Imperfections was a trip to see. Both are carrying on the legacy of George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic and Bootsy Collins. Fun stuff. As for what else I've been grooving to, I really like "Radiodread" by the Easy Star All-Stars. It's Radiohead's "OK Computer" recorded by reggae artists like Horace Andy, Toots & the Maytals and one of my favorites Morgan Heritage among others. Funny how reggae always makes sense in the summertime. About Me'Shell... I was surprised that you didn't recommend "Plantation Lullabies" to Mike Pritchard as a place to start. It's certainly more hip hop and jam influenced than her later records but I do think it provides a raw foundation in terms of where she has come from. Her bass playing on that record is unforgettable. Then again, maybe it's just that I have such great memories associated with songs like "I'm Diggin' You (Like an Old Soul Record)," "If That's Your Boyfriend (He Wasn't Last Night)" and "Dred Loc." Come to think of it, I can't believe I left Me'Shell and Outkast off of my '87-'97 list. Lastly, you posed the question about a month ago as to whether or not a self-made video posted to YouTube constitutes a release. Personally, I think it does and I really believe that we're not far from the day when some things will only be released in video form (at least initially) by commercially well-known artists. I absolutely love how open the possibilities are for people to create and I can picture the time when tools like YouTube will be used for more than just funny kitten antics, outrageous guitar licks and teen girls shaking their asses. In many ways we are there already. B n.p.: South Park - "Towelie" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:34:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: RE : Re: Music to do it by... Sarah Vaughan - NJC Hi Brenda, Even before I became a fan of Ella Fitz. Yeah even before Billie or Mildred. Or Bessie and Ethel, I heard about Sarah Vaughan. She is arguably the best (non bel canto) singing talent in the world. Her colorful improvations, endless inventions and exquisite phrasing are some of the things that made Sassy the Divine One. And yes, I loved her voice in "Brazilian Romance" and those gorgeously low notes that approximate the range of the basso profundo. Certainly she demonstrated that in "Romance" and when she used her near operatic vocals in the wordless vocalizations at the end of "Photograph", it was spine-chilling, no? By the way have you listened to her Bloody Mary stint in South Pacific? Kiri Te Kanawa sang the Nellie Forbush songs, Jose Carreras the Emile DeBecque, Mandy Patinkin sang the Joe Cable songs and Sarah sang "Happy Talk" and "Bali Hai". The former song had her changing dynamics almost every stanza while in the latter song, she sent chills my spine with the prolonged vibrato in the eponymously mysterious island. Strange as it may sound (as this may open some debates among Listers who discussed this topic year after year) but I really loved Sarah's voice between 1971 to 1990. Her tessitura has since adopted the lower organ notes with such magnificence. Her now-out-of-print "Sings Michel Legrand" is a religious experience, yes? So many singers have sung "What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life" but how did she come up with those confidently delivered flattened notes in "North and south and east and west of your life..."? It is as much a demonstration of her mastery of the art of singing as much as her innate musicianship (I heard in a music magazine once that as a pianist she can "hear" harmonies no other singer can). I like her 1950s output and even in 1945 when she first sang "Lover Man". The voice is plaintive, even childlike, always golden. Since then I have discovered Ella Fitzgerald (and who remain my favorite singer of all time) and other unheralded female jazz singers who are just as good (Susannah McCorkle, Ernestine Anderson, Urszula Dudziak, Betty Carter, Jay Clayton, Janis Siegel, Lizz Wright, Madeleine Peyroux) but Sarah will always be the Divine One. In my books and in my world, her performance of "Prelude to a Kiss" should be heard by anyone who likes vocal jazz. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Bruce Cockburn "Mystery" Brenda a icrit : Joseph, I agree completely about both Sarah and the album. Your description of "Love and Passion" is spot on. I remember playing this album for a friend who didn't know either artist particularly well and they got lost in the blend...and other things... so it worked for me on the MTDIB tip. Heh. What a great duet. I also love those low notes in "Romance." Her voice was certainly no longer bright and bouncy as it was on a recording like "At Mister Kelly's" and certainly the years of smoking had changed it but to me it was altered in the way that aged oak changes the grapes... not that I'm advocating smoking because I'm not into it at all. And I often wonder what she would have recorded had she lived longer. There are some really wonderful players on the recordings as well-Dori Caymmi, George Duke (a phenom who I think is so underrated because he is most well-known for his funky pop records), Paulinho Da Costa, Hubert Laws and produced by Sergio Mendes who just had a mention here. Good stuff. B n.p.: Sarah - "Romance" Joseph Palis wrote: > I agree with this album. Maybe not so much as MTDIB but as a vastly underrated last album of the divine jewel of jazz - Sarah Vaughan. Her duet with Milton Nascimento in "Love and Passion" is as honeyed as anyone can get. Their voices melding and sometimes indistinguishable from each other. Plus her version of "Fotografia" is quietly affecting. > > Joseph in Chapel Hill > np: Madeleine Peyroux "Reckless Blues" > > Brenda a icrit : > > Sarah Vaughan - Brazilian Romance > > > > --------------------------------- > Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 22:04:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Crikey NJC I only watched him once & found him to be everything I dislike about how some humans treat other creatures (with disrespect & ignorance)... what I read about the accident made sense to me... the ray was in between him & the camera man & may have felt like it was being hunted so reacted the way it did out of survival instinct... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:02:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : RE: Broken Flowers and other movies (NJC) Hi all -- I am liking the discussion on films lately. I have seen "Broken Flowers" too but the reason I watched it is mainly to marvel at the highly visual art of filmmaking of Jom Jarmusch. No suprise there since he started as a cinematographer. But I did enjoy his stuff from quirky "Dead Man" to the even quirkier "Coffee and Cigarettes". Also I always thought that Tilda Swinton is an actress to watch even if she sometimes appear briefly in films (Vanilla Sky and Broken Flowers). And I enjoyed the characters very much, especially the uber hilarious actress who played the daughter of Sharon Stone. Then there's the compulsively watchable Jessica Lange. Overall, I enjoyed the film despite the loose ends that the film is not interested in resolving neatly. Was that his son in the end? Was there redemption? Was there closure for Bill Murray's character? I don't know if my answers will satisfy but it was a great journey of self discovery as much for his character as much as the viewers (like me) who had to look inwardly at things that resonated with them/mine. Someone (Patti P?) mentioned "Little Miss Sunshine" and also loved it. I read very mixed reviews of it in the usual places I read reviews. Some are complaining about it being a Hollywood "art film" while others are saying that it was a film that set out to entertain at the beginning of the film but progressively showed a glorious sadness that one does not associate in a film like this. I do like Toni Collette and Steve Carrell and Paul Dano who wowed me in Rebecca Miller's "The Ballad of Jack and Rose" as well as in "L.I.E.". And I like the little heart the film had. Very unapologetic about the conclusion it wants to use to end the narrative of this road journey. So it was a delight seeing this film. One of those films that I lost myself in unlike some films where I was aware I was watching them and realized that my natural enjoyment of films was ruined by film courses that overanalyzed, overkilled and blamed everything to the apparatus and Althusser. ;-) Lastly, I also saw Deepa Mehta's "Water". I agree with what Bob said about the film and although the pre-production of the film created a (what I feel) gimmick to triumphantly herald the last film in the earth-water-fire trilogy, I was surprised at the revolutions my heart made while watching this film about the Hindu custom of (mis)treating widows. Not only was the topic a plea for an end to this social injustice, it also showed the cruelty that seniority and hierarchy created in a place where widows are supposed to be equals. Except for the little girl who played the young widow and the sometimes beatific photography to highlight the physical beauty of the lovers, the film refused to privilege one character as the main character. The last third heartbreakingly captured the loneliness, tragedy and blind obedience tradition can bring to people it oppresses. Fantastic performance from Seema Biswas (The Bandit Queen) who took over the last third of the film. The moviehouse was awashed with tears after the film. One other film I'd recommend is Wong Kar Wai's "2046" which was shown last year. Of the latest film I have seen, I really liked Patrice Chereau's "Gabrielle". Isabelle Huppert is sublime. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: sarah McLachlan "Adia" - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 22:12:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Crikey NJC http://www.devilducky.com/media/46386/ that was amazing... around here, we have mockingbirds who now imitate car alarms & cell phones! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 01:04:28 -0500 From: "Snatch N. Grabster" Subject: Re: RE : RE: Broken Flowers and other movies (NJC) Well, of course the audience will never really know for sure whether the boy he met was really his son. But the implication is that he isn't. this is undercut by casting one of Bill Murray's real sons in the part. So, on one level we know he is the son, on another level we think it's just coincidence they met. But that is just the point. If indeed he had a son, they would just be strangers. His son could be anyone- if he existed at all. But if the letter that sends Bill Murray on his adventure was actually planted by his girlfriend, then it was just an excuse to shake him up a bit and get him to find out who he is. At the film's end, he seems ready to reconnect with his girlfriend (who left him at just the moment the letter arrives) and perhaps have a real child. So, the movie is about making connections. PS- One of the actresses who plays an ex-girlfriend was the mother on Six Feet Under, and her part here is playing against what we expect from seeing her on TV... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:49:52 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: movie music NJC hi >>>azeem replied to em >>>> I'm currently a big fan of Jim White, who made Searching for the >>>> Wrong-Eyed Jesus; the title is after his album Wrong Eyed Jesus. I >>>> haven't heard that one, but I've got the wonderfully titled Dig A Hole >>>> in that Substrate and Tell Me what You See, which is a superb album. jims album "no such place" is also a great one ron ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #321 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------