From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #307 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, August 27 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 307 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Television NJC - now A Walk on the Moon soundtrack ["Gerald A. Notaro] RE: all this talk of food now NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Bob Muller ] Draft (njc) ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] Re: Television NJC [Em ] Re: Sax Masters & Modern music njc ["mike pritchard" ] These are a few of my favorite (SNL) things NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama"] Re: Television NJC - now A Walk on the Moon soundtrack [Em ] Re: Draft (njc) [Em ] RE: JMDL Digest V2006 #306 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: These are a few of my favorite (SNL) things NJC ["Randy Remote" ] "Your notches, liberation doll" ["Mark Tatum" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Television NJC - now A Walk on the Moon soundtrack Great movie. Great soundtrack. Luckily I bought it used when it was $5.00! Jerry np: Pink: I'm Not Dead (a fab cd) Bryan wrote: >>>Subject: Re: Television NJC >>>From: "Cassy" >>>I was watching television during the day a few days ago which I very >>> rarely do. I >>started watching a movie called "A Walk on the Moon" >>> (1999)....... >>1. Sunlight - The Youngbloods >>2. Town Without Pity - Mandy Barnett >>3. Wishin' & Hopin' - Dusty Springfield >>4. Sally Go Round The Roses - Damnations TX >>5. Summertime - Big Brother & The Holding Company >>6. Crystal Blue Persuasion - Morcheeba >>7. Today - Jefferson Airplane >>8. Embryonic Journey - Jefferson Airplane >>9. Cactus Tree - Joni Mitchell >>10. Ripple - Grateful Dead >>11. Helplessly Hoping - Taxiride >>12. No Matter What You Do - Mojave 3 >>13. Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Judy Collins >>14. White Bird - It's A Beautiful Day >>15. Follow - Richie Havens >>16. Crimson & Clover - Elijah Blue Allman/Cher >>Cassy > > I have that soundtrack CD, very enjoyable ("A Town Without Pity" really > cooks). Out of print now and starts at $52 used on amazon.com! One of > very few wise investments on my part, I guess. > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:06:20 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: all this talk of food now NJC >>what would mike pritchard do?<< Did I miss something? I have been away for nearly a month and am still catching up on July and August posts (currently reading 299) so it was with some surprise that I see in Mags 'sign off line' that I am temporarily replacing Bob Marley. What would I do about what? About jonifest 2007? Probably won't make it. I will have something to say on what I'm reading and listening to when I eliminate the backlog. Also about olives and especially about olive oil. mike (back) in barcelona np - The Pastels - Classic Line-Up ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:17:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube Brenda wrote: >>" YouTube knows that this is the case which is why they are negotiating with labels, publishers and television companies now so that they can legally show music videos and live performances. I didn't know that, Brenda. I hope it works out, because having them available in online is a nice idea. After all, if there were money in selling the videos outright, they'd be available. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Re Slide Guitartists and fantastic singers... Whitey Houston NJC And that is exactly what I am talking about. Singers like Christina and Whitney, probably the best singers of their generation, record what their producers think will sell, not what they think is great music or what they enjoy singing. Think how hard Billie had to fight to record Strange Fruit. Think Whitney would ever do that? Judy toured for years singing the music she wanted to sing, and endured being told she was washed up because she loved the standards. Christina has loads of talent, but look how she has allowed herself to be marketed. The easy buck means she may never be able to undo the damage she has done for those who may take her seriously down the road. Jerry Brenda wrote: I've heard Whitney sing music live (some of it > gospel) that left everyone in the room in tears in and in awe. The > problem is that it isn't what she records. I've heard Christina sing Leon Russell's "A Song for > You" with the accompaniment of Herbie Hancock on piano and there's no > doubt she has heart. Again, getting it to the recordings is another > matter. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:32:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC I love it!! What an excellent point! When I look at the list of top singles of 69 I see a list of songs that are total fluff, AND I loved (love?) most of them!! Damn! Now I can't get Build Me Up Buttercup out of my head!! Love, Alice music wrote: Forgive me all... I'm kinda working my way backwards... but I promise to lay off soon... Gerald A. Notaro wrote: > Best Selling albums of 1969: > > 1 The Beatles > Abbey Road > 2 Captain Beefheart > Trout Mask Replica > 3 The Rolling Stones > Let It Bleed > 4 Led Zeppelin > Led Zeppelin > 5 The Band > The Band > 6 Miles Davis > In a Silent Way > 7 Led Zeppelin > Led Zeppelin II > 8 Frank Zappa > Hot Rats > 9 The Who > Tommy > 10 Frank Zappa > Uncle Meat > > Best Selling Albums of 2005: > > 1. Emancipation of Mimi, - Mariah Carey (4,968,606) > 2. Massacre, - 50 Cent (4,852,744) > 3. Breakway, - Kelly Clarkson (3,496,192) > 4. American Idiot, - Green Day (3,360,394) > 5. Monkey Business, - Black Eyed Peas (3,037,251) > 6. X & Y, - Coldplay (2,615,280) > 7. Feels Like Today, - Rscal Flatts (2,511,209) > 8. Love.Angel.Music.Baby, - Gwen Stefani (2,505,390) > 9. Late Registration, - Kanye West (2,413,580) > 10. Documentary, - Game (2,275,646) > > May I ask what the source of your 1969 list is? Are those the top sellers in the year 1969 or the biggest sellers so far that were released in 1969? Billboard lists the top albums of 1969 as being: 1. IN-A-GADDA-DA-VIDA - Iron Butterfly (Atco) 2. HAIR - Original Cast (RCA) 3. BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS - Blood, Sweat & Tears (Columbia) 4. BAYOU COUNTRY - Creedence Clearwater Revival (Fantasy) 5. LED ZEPPELIN - Led Zeppelin (Atlantic) 6. JOHNNY CASH AT FOLSOM PRISON - Johnny Cash (Columbia) 7. FUNNY GIRL - Soundtrack (Columbia) 8. THE BEATLES (The White Album) - Beatles (Apple) 9. DONOVAN'S GREATEST HITS - Donovan (Epic) 10. THE ASSOCIATION'S GREATEST HITS - Association (Warner Bros. - 7 Arts) And the top singles of 1969 were: 1. SUGAR, SUGAR - Archies (Kirshner) 2. AQUARIUS/LET THE SUNSHINE IN - Fifth Dimension (Soul City) 3. I CANT GET NEXT TO YOU - Temptations (Gordy) 4. HONKY TONK WOMEN - Rolling Stones (London) 5. EVERYDAY PEOPLE - Sly & the Family Stone (Epic) 6. DIZZY - Tommy Roe (ABC) 7. HOT FUN IN THE SUMMERTIME - Sly & the Family Stone (Epic) 8. I'LL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN - Tom Jones (Parrot) 9. BUILD ME UP BUTTERCUP - Foundations (Uni) 10. CRIMSON AND CLOVER - Tommy James & the Shondells (Roulette) I don't think it's accidental that the top singles in 1969 look more like the top album chart in 2005. There is no real paid commercial singles market now and there hasn't been for a few years, by design to push full length sales. And it has been a very short time (months really) that a company like BigChampagne has been able to track the impact of free file swapping in terms of single and artist popularity. Their data still hasn't been incorporated in a way that gives a comprehensive view of the overall music marketplace. Soundscan no longer reflects that; it only provides a snapshot of retail sales which is far from being representative of the music market overall. I think it's tenuous at best to compare a 1969 chart to a 2005 chart, not only because of differences in methodology but also because the overall cultural landscape has shifted the power away from radio stations, once-a-week TV shows, retailers and record labels to the average person on-line or on their phone. Recorded music is more ubiquitous and is easily accessed on demand. The barriers to production and distribution have been lowered to the point that there is more music being recorded and made available than ever before. It's hard for me to look at any of these lists without bearing that in mind. Bob Muller wrote: > Another interesting point from the two lists - > the 1969 list (with the exception of Miles Davis) > was all white and the 2005 list was mostly black. > I think it also speaks to the rising purchasing > power of the increase in the black middle class. > I don't think the difference between the top sellers of 2005 and 1969 has as much to do with the black middle class as it does the way black artists were marketed in 1969. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye were among the first to fight to be treated and marketed as album artists when so many (besides Hendrix and Sly Stone) were seen as singles artists only. And that happened around '71. On a separate note, music that sounds "black" or is made by black artists isn't necessarily bought exclusively or even by a majority black people. In my experience, a project that is successful with a core black audience (regardless of class because music is one of the few things affordable at all kinds of income levels amongst all colors and races) may sell somewhere between 300k-700k with a big success at just over a million. Mariah Carey and 50 Cent are selling to a wide range of people because they are pop. In fact, 50 Cent's audience is like a lot of hardcore rap in that it has a significant portion that is young (teens-early 20's), male and white. The black middle class is in no small measure revolting against the "bitches and hoes" aesthetic as evidenced by Bill Cosby's speech to the NAACP and the subsequent support he received, signified by Juan Williams' new book "Enough." Talk about culture wars. I promise guys that I'm almost out of gas... for tonight anyway... B n.p.: The Roots - "Pity The Child/Come Together" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:37:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC <(Not that "Car Wash" doesn't evoke a warm vibe> For me as well...it evokes memories of college days working at UPS, watching the thousands of parcels coming down the conveyor belts and rollers, and we'd be singing "Work, and work - well, those boxes never seem to stop coming...." Brenda - thanks for making up for your long absence in one night. Great reading this morning from you and everyone. Bob NP: Bruce, "It's Hard To Be A Saint In The City" (demo) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:11:27 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Draft (njc) I'll state the obvious: The draft, abortion, and minimum wage are recent "wedge issues". Party leaders on all sides time their discussions, lobbying, and petition collecting for maximum fundraising and turnout at the polls. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:42:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Television NJC WEEDS!!!!!!!!!! is the light of my televisual life!!!!!! I am so delighted and tickled by WEEDS. And Mary Louise Parker's amazing eyes and soul work as ballast for the relative insanity of the rest of the show. Those eyes...I could happily drown there. And for something completely different, I watch this kind of silly HBO sitcom called Lucky Louie, which is deeply flawed, but heck...so am I, lol!! I miss 6 Feet Under terribly. I'm sure there must be something on regular network, but if so its probably on at 10, which is too late. The reason I can do these cable ones is because of the "on demand" channels, where I can watch them at an early time. Em - --- Cassy wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Johnson" > > <<< Speaking of television there are three shows I watch that I think > are > brilliant > > Lost > 24 > and Prison Break >>> > > > My favorite shows are: > > Mythbusters > The 4400 > Medium > The Closer > The L Word > Weeds ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:56:16 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Sax Masters & Modern music njc Tying two threads together here. Bob Muller recently recommended anything by Meshell Ndegeocello (could you recommend anything specifically Bob?) and someone else (whose name slips my mind, sorry) asked about sax masters. I recently bought a double CD by a sax player I didn't know but who is called Ron Blake, It's called 'Sonic Tonic' and Meshell produced it. Disk one is the 'straight' version, and very nice it is too, while disk two are remixes of the tracks on disk one. Muller is right about Marsalis, of course, and the other recommendations (Coltrane, Pepper etc) are spot on. I would add a couple of names here, Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon, and if you want to try something new, there's a great Catalan alto player called Llibert Fortuny who is Berklee-trained and hip-hop influenced and he's recently been working with his quintet and a Big Band called Llibert Fortuny Electric Big Band. Courtney Pine is a fine English tenor too. And before I go, I heartily endorse Azeem's comments about Kate Bush's new CD, and would like to know what he thinks of the seam-picking furore (non-cricketers can delete now). mike in bcn np - Barcelona Raval Sessions 2 - various artistes (multi-lingual. multi-ethnic, multi-style, a great synthesis of the city) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:58:35 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: These are a few of my favorite (SNL) things NJC One of the healthy expressions in AA is "Take what you like and leave the rest." * Chris Farley "interviewing" Paul McCartney. * The Rutles mashing "Here Comes the Sun" with the author. * Loren Michaels offering $5,000 for a reunion of the Beatles. "You wouldn't have to give Ringo a full share unless you wanted to." * Mac doing "Hey Jude". (Hmm, there's a theme here.) * Linda Ronstadt backing Paul Simon singing on the Christmas show. * Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Anytime she was on camera. * Ladysmith Black Mambazo backing Paul Simon. * Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" singing a Christmas carole, then slowly the "spirit" over took her resulting in a wild drum solo. * JT doing a medley of Chuck Berry and a new anti-war song. ("Sweet Marie" and "Slap Leather"?) * Bill Murray as the lounge singer on an Amtrak train, trying a bit too hard by adding lyrics to the theme from "Star Wars". * The recurring Samuri skits. * Joe Piscopo as Frank Sinatra. * Tina Fey doing "Weekend Update". * Eddie Murphy's recurring send up of Mister Rogers, "Mister Robinson's Neighborhood". * Jon Lovitz as a great thespian. "How did you do that?" "EK-ting!" "Brilliant!!" "Thank you." "Thank YOU!!" * An inmate's poem, "Cill My Landlord", by Eddie Murphy. * Dan Ackroyd hawking "The Bass-O-Matic". He inserts a bass and blends it. Pours it into a tall glass and then hands the glass off camera. They switch cameras to Larraine (holding an identical glass). She takes a sip and purrs, "MMMmmm. That's good bass." * The first 4 times Chevy opened the show with a fall. * Larraine Newman trying to decide whether it was safe to open her apartment door at night... when suddenly the theme from "Jaws" sounded. Priceless. All the best, Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Television NJC - now A Walk on the Moon soundtrack I am, in general, finding soundtracks a very handy way of finding new music. (or at least music new to me). Maybe for $16 one could put that list together on iTunes. Maybe not tho.... Em - --- Bryan wrote: > >>Subject: Re: Television NJC > >>From: "Cassy" > >>I was watching television during the day a few days ago which I > very rarely do. I >>started watching a movie called "A Walk on the > Moon" (1999)....... > >1. Sunlight - The Youngbloods > >2. Town Without Pity - Mandy Barnett > >3. Wishin' & Hopin' - Dusty Springfield > >4. Sally Go Round The Roses - Damnations TX > >5. Summertime - Big Brother & The Holding Company > >6. Crystal Blue Persuasion - Morcheeba > >7. Today - Jefferson Airplane > >8. Embryonic Journey - Jefferson Airplane > >9. Cactus Tree - Joni Mitchell > >10. Ripple - Grateful Dead > >11. Helplessly Hoping - Taxiride > >12. No Matter What You Do - Mojave 3 > >13. Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Judy Collins > >14. White Bird - It's A Beautiful Day > >15. Follow - Richie Havens > >16. Crimson & Clover - Elijah Blue Allman/Cher > >Cassy > > I have that soundtrack CD, very enjoyable ("A Town Without Pity" > really cooks). Out of print now and starts at $52 used on amazon.com! > One of very few wise investments on my part, I guess. > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Fwd: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC > "Car Wash" came out (yeah, pun) about the same time I discovered the > first gay bar I'd ever known, at age 17. > El Goya, in Tampa. > I adore "Car Wash" (the song) to this day. The movie too, actually. > The tune is one of those "i defy you not to move your butt" ones. > Em > Ps another on that list I adore that probably *not* as many on this > list would defend the virtue of is "Jim Dandy to the Rescue" - Black > Oak Arkansas was on the list. Not sure they had much influance on > future musicians tho. Well, maybe the theatrical long haired guy with > no shirt thing... so I ADMIT to liking that song,,,another > butt-shaker > > --- Bob Muller wrote: > > > <(Not that "Car Wash" doesn't evoke a warm vibe> > > > > For me as well...it evokes memories of college > > days working at UPS, watching the thousands of > > parcels coming down the conveyor belts and > > rollers, and we'd be singing "Work, and work - > > well, those boxes never seem to stop coming...." > > > > Brenda - thanks for making up for your long > > absence in one night. Great reading this morning > > from you and everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Draft (njc) down here its campaign time, for guvnah as well as others. It makes me LAUGH how they all, in their TV ads, at the very last second quickly add "and higher pay for teahcers" - talking sooooooo fast its almost like listening to one of those finincing/pricing disclaimers at the end of a car ad on commercial radio. Its so pathetically obvious its an afterthought and thrown in there just in CASE thats more important to someone than the fact that the candidate is a "Jeb Bush Republican". LOL!!!!!!! like thats this huge thing to aspire to. Like Jeb was Thomas Jefferson or something. It is just flabbergasting to me to see how many people apparently think things are soooo hunky-dory here in FL that any change would be abhorent. To have to promise to be the same old thing. They should use the tag line "same sh_t different day". Em - --- "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" wrote: > I'll state the obvious: > > The draft, abortion, and minimum wage are recent "wedge issues". > Party > leaders on all sides time their discussions, lobbying, and petition > collecting for maximum fundraising and turnout at the polls. > > Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:22:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2006 #306 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni-digest@smoe.org] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:00 AM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #306 JMDL Digest Sunday, August 27 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 306 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: Draft (njc) [Brenda ] RE: Draft (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC ["patrick leader" ] Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube [Brenda ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Brenda ] Re: Draft (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube [Brenda Subject: Re: Draft (njc) Kate, Likewise, the point I'm trying to make is that American history and world history for that matter are not hidden from anyone. Most of the people I know who are serving or have served in the military, both family and friends, understand that it is far from an easy option and compared to the risk, the pay isn't that great. Despite that, some have even re-upped. This is my personal experience so it's hard for me to be cynical about their choices because I've not walked in their shoes. I partied behind ivy-covered walls while they fought off sleep deprivation in basic training. I feel certain that the troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world are a mix of those who completely understood the gravity of their choice and those who thought it would be like a video game. I can't speak to "many," "some" or any other proportion because I doubt that either you or I know what that proportion actually is. Ultimately, we have free will and we have to assume personal responsibility for our own choices, even those made hastily in our youth, despite long-standing marketing efforts or other influences. We have a lot of freedom to educate ourselves and a myriad of free resources with which to do it. Not delving into the history is a choice. Service is a choice as well and I've not in any way indicated that it is any higher then teaching or healing. But it is a choice nevertheless. Kate Bennett wrote: > > Hi Brenda, > > > > The point I am trying to make is that many kids believe the marketing > & commercials & don't delve into the history, especially when they are > given a huge check to sign on the dotted line... every kid I know who > has joined has not spent a lot of time contemplating the decision.. > BTW, I said some kids join because its cool, & some join for various > other reasons. Not all. > > > > And I'll admit I am very cynical when I hear how people join to serve > their country. How is serving in the military any more or less > serving your country than teaching, or going into medicine, etc etc > They are choosing a career that pays them in return. Yes they are at > great risk, yes they deserve what they get in return but I think few > who join really understand the risks. At least that has been my > experience in talking to veterans from several wars over the past > couple decades including this one. Most had a very romantic image of > what they were going in to do & if they made it out alive & healthy > (talking about those in wars), they saw how naove they were. I think > what gets me upset the most is that the military is the best paying & > easiest option for so many kids. It says a lot about our culture. > > > > Kate & Randy, > > I'm not the least bit naive about how the military sells itself or > that those who appear to be adults are still kids. But a military, > any military, serves a basic core purpose regardless of marketing and > commercials. This purpose is centuries old and anyone who puts their > nose in a history book knows that. Nothing prevents them from seeking > that sense of history before they join. It's not at all beyond the > grasp of a 14 or 15 year old, let alone a 17 or 18 year old. > > And to say that kids join because they think it's "cool" is really a > generalization. Some join because they want to serve, they understand > what it means and they are proud of that service. The reasons are not > easily or uniformly summed up as you list them below. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:33:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Draft (njc) Brenda, By easy option, what I mean is that it is easy to 'get hired'. For a kid out of high school or who didn't finish high school & who grows tired of working at the minimum wage job & who has no means of getting a college education, the money offered him or her up front is a huge amount. This thread originated with recruitment & all my points I am trying to make is about that. Of course everything is a choice, that is a given & the only responsible way to live. However, I'd like to see our children have better choices. That said, I also have friends & family who have done well in the military. I also know some who have not. Kate Kate, Likewise, the point I'm trying to make is that American history and world history for that matter are not hidden from anyone. Most of the people I know who are serving or have served in the military, both family and friends, understand that it is far from an easy option and compared to the risk, the pay isn't that great. Despite that, some have even re-upped. This is my personal experience so it's hard for me to be cynical about their choices because I've not walked in their shoes. I partied behind ivy-covered walls while they fought off sleep deprivation in basic training. I feel certain that the troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world are a mix of those who completely understood the gravity of their choice and those who thought it would be like a video game. I can't speak to "many," "some" or any other proportion because I doubt that either you or I know what that proportion actually is. Ultimately, we have free will and we have to assume personal responsibility for our own choices, even those made hastily in our youth, despite long-standing marketing efforts or other influences. We have a lot of freedom to educate ourselves and a myriad of free resources with which to do it. Not delving into the history is a choice. Service is a choice as well and I've not in any way indicated that it is any higher then teaching or healing. But it is a choice nevertheless. - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:35:35 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC dear b (does that stand for brenda?) i just want to say it's fantastic to have you contributing to the list again, the depth of knowledge and insight is terrific. regarding your fascinating earlier comments about rose royce, i don't think it negates bob's point: that if that other guy is citing rose royce to prove his point that 'they don't make 'em like that any more' he's stretching. rose royce was great, but citing their influence on mary j. blige just reminded me of what a fantastic artist she is, proving that brilliant new talents are still rising in this very different time. however, i'm putting a rose royce greatest hits cd on my mental wish list. 'wishing on a star' had a definite second run in new york clubs between '90 and '92. i also liked your comments about how differently black artists were marketed in the '60s. growing up listening to san francisco bay area radio, i did hear the great motown singles, and sly, stevie wonder and earth wind and fire were major loves of mine in high school (and continue to be now) like most of the people on this list, i'm a music slut, but i never heard etta james until the late '80s, and i was shocked. i bought several collections of singles and the fantastic 1967 album 'tell mama', and i immediately recognized that she was the single strongest influence on janis, but i remember thinking 'why didn't i hear this stuff on the radio when it was first released?'. i even remember first hearing her version of 'i would rather go blind', recognizing that rod stewart had covered it, and being angry that pop radio hadn't served it to me in 1967. it taught me an important lesson about how music was distributed in the '60s, and your insights brought it up again. thanks, patrick np - dawn upshaw, stay well (kurt weill) >I don't think the difference between the top sellers of 2005 and 1969 has as much to do with the black middle class as it does the way black artists were marketed in 1969. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye were among the first to fight to be treated and marketed as album artists when so many (besides Hendrix and Sly Stone) were seen as singles artists only. And that happened around '71. ** and, worth quoting again ** Funny enough<>, the intro of "Car Wash" with those hand claps has propelled the song to be one of the most sampled ever, only surpassed by the likes of James Brown and George Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelic. Never mind the influence on contemporary R&B and hip hop of songs like "Love Don't Live Here Anymore," "Wishing On A Star," "I Wanna Get Next To You" and "I'm Going Down" which was a smash for Mary J. Blige almost 20 years later, yielding an award-winning video that has become an iconic moment of her 12+ year career. Norman Whitfield remains one of the most under-appreciated songwriters/producers of the late '60's and 70's, who constantly pushed boundaries at Motown. Rose Royce were as much his instrument of expression as the Temptations were. That's the challenge with these kinds of discussions. There's a reasonable angle to more positions than what's immediately visible at first glance. - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:48:09 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube Michael Flaherty wrote: > Michael O'Malley wrote: >As if someone is going to make money from these or what ? Feels > pretty cheap to me, especially since it is so obviously a fan driven site. > > If they want to release "The Joni Videos" dvd, I'm ready to buy it. If not, what do they care? > > Cheap is the right word. > > Michael Flaherty > YouTube is already making money from advertising for the aggregate of content that it has and if it's sold to another bigger company will undoubtedly make billions. Shouldn't some of this go back to the people whose work is being used on the site to draw a crowd in the first place, even if the number of viewings are proportionately very small compared to lonelygirl15's video about being "really, really excited?" YouTube knows that this is the case which is why they are negotiating with labels, publishers and television companies now so that they can legally show music videos and live performances. B np: - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:58:39 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Draft (njc) Kate, I understood what you meant by easy. Truth is that there are other things that are easy to get hired at that also are more lucrative than minimum wage but likewise they have their associated cost. Likewise I understand that this thread is about recruitment and I don't feel we've strayed from it. Ultimately, the response to being recruited (or marketed to) is an individual one that is grounded in each person's sense of morality and personal responsibility regardless of the means by which that recruitment or marketing comes to them. That's what I truly believe and perhaps that is where we depart. B Kate Bennett wrote: > Brenda, > > > > By easy option, what I mean is that it is easy to 'get hired'. For a kid > out of high school or who didn't finish high school & who grows tired of > working at the minimum wage job & who has no means of getting a college > education, the money offered him or her up front is a huge amount. This > thread originated with recruitment & all my points I am trying to make is > about that. Of course everything is a choice, that is a given & the only > responsible way to live. However, I'd like to see our children have better > choices. That said, I also have friends & family who have done well in the > military. I also know some who have not. > > > > Kate > > > > Kate, > > Likewise, the point I'm trying to make is that American history and world > history for that matter are not hidden from anyone. Most of the people I > know who are serving or have served in the military, both family and > friends, understand that it is far from an easy option and compared to the > risk, the pay isn't that great. Despite that, some have even re-upped. This > is my personal experience so it's hard for me to be cynical about their > choices because I've not walked in their shoes. I partied behind > ivy-covered walls while they fought off sleep deprivation in basic training. > > > I feel certain that the troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the > world are a mix of those who completely understood the gravity of their > choice and those who thought it would be like a video game. I can't speak > to "many," "some" or any other proportion because I doubt that either you or > I know what that proportion actually is. Ultimately, we have free will and > we have to assume personal responsibility for our own choices, even those > made hastily in our youth, despite long-standing marketing efforts or other > influences. We have a lot of freedom to educate ourselves and a myriad of > free resources with which to do it. Not delving into the history is a > choice. Service is a choice as well and I've not in any way indicated that > it is any higher then teaching or healing. But it is a choice nevertheless. - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:37:19 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC Hi Patrick! B does indeed stand for Brenda... I didn't realize my identification was so cryptic until I saw my posts hit the lists so I think I've cleaned that up a bit. I won't argue that Rose Royce is a stretch compared to the Beatles or Cream, however I do think their (and Norman's) importance in terms of influence is largely ignored because the impact to the mainstream is relegated to the one song, "Car Wash." (Not that "Car Wash" doesn't evoke a warm vibe and treasured memories of peaking in on my older brothers playing cards or shooting pool with their friends under the blue lights and burning incense in the basement of my parent's home in Ohio....) Personally I think the whole argument that there's going to be some vacuum when the balding geezers kick is bunk. And I find it increasingly difficult to compare today's environment with even 10 years ago let alone 35. This whole conversation has an underlying basis in albums and album-oriented artists when in reality the "album" is something of a transitory configuration. There are prominent and respected artists making music now who might decide in two or three years to release a handful of songs at a time without ever compiling them together as a group or 10 or 12. In fact I'm trying to convince a couple that I know to do that very thing right now. I had conversations with Ben Harper about the possibilities of this eight years ago. (I'm not going to say a WORD about folks leaving him off the guitarists list... whatever!) Will this new approach diminish them in any way to the people who love their music? I don't think so. In fact, I think the media available today allow artists to do this and have a richer, deeper and more immediate communication with their fans that can extend careers beyond the critically acknowledged "prolific period." News travels fast these days (how quickly did the George Allen "macaca" gaff spread?) and music will too as soon as people let go and let it out as it happens versus trying to find the right timing for a release. Gosh Patrick... that's probably more than you bargained for in a response but what can I say to your kind and gracious words other than: "Music sluts unite! Give it to me and give it to me NOW!" ;-) B patrick leader wrote: > dear b (does that stand for brenda?) > > i just want to say it's fantastic to have you contributing to the list > again, the depth of knowledge and insight is terrific. > > regarding your fascinating earlier comments about rose royce, i don't think > it negates bob's point: that if that other guy is citing rose royce to prove > his point that 'they don't make 'em like that any more' he's stretching. > rose royce was great, but citing their influence on mary j. blige just > reminded me of what a fantastic artist she is, proving that brilliant new > talents are still rising in this very different time. however, i'm putting > a rose royce greatest hits cd on my mental wish list. 'wishing on a star' > had a definite second run in new york clubs between '90 and '92. > > i also liked your comments about how differently black artists were marketed > in the '60s. growing up listening to san francisco bay area radio, i did > hear the great motown singles, and sly, stevie wonder and earth wind and > fire were major loves of mine in high school (and continue to be now) > > like most of the people on this list, i'm a music slut, but i never heard > etta james until the late '80s, and i was shocked. i bought several > collections of singles and the fantastic 1967 album 'tell mama', and i > immediately recognized that she was the single strongest influence on janis, > but i remember thinking 'why didn't i hear this stuff on the radio when it > was first released?'. i even remember first hearing her version of 'i would > rather go blind', recognizing that rod stewart had covered it, and being > angry that pop radio hadn't served it to me in 1967. > > it taught me an important lesson about how music was distributed in the > '60s, and your insights brought it up again. thanks, > > patrick > > np - dawn upshaw, stay well (kurt weill) > > >> I don't think the difference between the top sellers of 2005 and 1969 >> > has as much to do with the black middle class as it does the way black > artists were marketed in 1969. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye were among > the first to fight to be treated and marketed as album artists when so > many (besides Hendrix and Sly Stone) were seen as singles artists only. > And that happened around '71. > > ** and, worth quoting again ** > > Funny enough<>, the intro of "Car Wash" with those hand claps > has propelled the song to be one of the most sampled ever, only > surpassed by the likes of James Brown and George > Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelic. > > Never mind the influence on contemporary R&B and hip hop of songs like > "Love Don't Live Here Anymore," "Wishing On A Star," "I Wanna Get Next > To You" and "I'm Going Down" which was a smash for Mary J. Blige almost > 20 years later, yielding an award-winning video that has become an > iconic moment of her 12+ year career. Norman Whitfield remains one of > the most under-appreciated songwriters/producers of the late '60's and > 70's, who constantly pushed boundaries at Motown. Rose Royce were as > much his instrument of expression as the Temptations were. > > That's the challenge with these kinds of discussions. There's a > reasonable angle to more positions than what's immediately visible at > first glance. - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:41:54 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Draft (njc) Randy wrote: > The reason some on the left has called for a draft is strategic- > they feel that until the reality of this idiotic war hits home with > voters, and their own sons and daughters are enlisted, > they will not get heated up enough to pull the plug. Yep. That's what THIS leftie means when I suggest that a draft may be around the corner. Remember, THIS leftie is an Air Force veteran of 10+ years. Although I did not personally experience combat, I have many friends who did, and I was in the military during the craziness of the Reagan years. I had to bomb sweep my car every morning in Germany after the La Belle disco bombing. I understand what I'm saying when I suggest a draft. I don't understand how this war can drag on for much longer without a draft. The military can't use "stop loss" (which is unfair and a back door draft) forever. They can call back those who have done tours in Iraq only so many times. Furthermore, until a draft is happening again, the complacent kids who won't take to the streets in protest right now will continue walzing through life with their iPod headphones poked into their ears. Afterall, it's not THEIR problem, is it? This doesn't mean I really want to see a draft, and I know damn well that the truly privileged won't end up being drafted. But a draft is a necessary evil in order to smack the heads of the complacent, get their attention, and get them in the streets. It's necessary to get parents off the sofa and screaming at their senators and representatives. Because until and unless the rest of the population is in danger, nothing is else going to stop this dirty war. Lori Santa Rosa, CA - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:41:05 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Warner Bros pulls Joni videos from Utube That dangling "np:" was k.d. lang singing "Help Me" which is still up on YouTube. Kind of makes me wonder if the removal of Joni videos was WMG acting on Joni's behalf since they are both Warner artists... Brenda wrote: > Michael Flaherty wrote: >> Michael O'Malley wrote: >As if >> someone is going to make money from these or what ? Feels pretty >> cheap to me, especially since it is so obviously a fan driven site. >> >> If they want to release "The Joni Videos" dvd, I'm ready to buy >> it. If not, what do they care? >> Cheap is the right word. >> Michael Flaherty >> > > YouTube is already making money from advertising for the aggregate of > content that it has and if it's sold to another bigger company will > undoubtedly make billions. Shouldn't some of this go back to the > people whose work is being used on the site to draw a crowd in the > first place, even if the number of viewings are proportionately very > small compared to lonelygirl15's video about being "really, really > excited?" YouTube knows that this is the case which is why they are > negotiating with labels, publishers and television companies now so > that they can legally show music videos and live performances. > > B > > np: - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #306 ***************************** - ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:36:48 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: These are a few of my favorite (SNL) things NJC I would add: *The Beatles Meet Elvis skit with Carvey et al "I'm just happy to be here" *Paul Simon and George Harrison acoustic "Here Comes The Sun" *Musical moments too numerous to mention inc. Rickee Lee Jones' debut, Nirvana, Green Day, Chili Peppers, Norah Jones.... *Waynes World! Waynes World! Excellent! *Jan Hooks as Tammy Faye Baker on Church Chat *Streisand crashing Coffee Talk w/Madonna & Myers *The many talents of Phil Hartman *We just want to Pump (clap) You Up! *The Sweeny Sisters (w/Shatner) *"I'm Gumby, dammit!" *Schwetty Balls *Gilda, dear Gilda *Steve Martin introducing Sting as "Stin-gee" *Alec Baldwin and John Goodman as barflies in the Bob Brasky skits. *The Ambiguously Gay Duo/The X Presidents/Robt Smiegel cartoons *"...yeah...THat's the ticket!" I still watch SNL every week, and often the whole show is crap, but every once in a while they do a really good one (usually when they have a big guest). Their opening skit and news are the only time a network show is willing to be frank and irreverant about politics (except for the Simpsons). The people that say SNL sucks unconditionally stopped watching it, so how do they know? RR ps Tina Fey has left SNL, but will have her own sitcom in the fall and cowrote the excellent Mean Girls movie. She's hot (pant). - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" > * Chris Farley "interviewing" Paul McCartney. > * The Rutles mashing "Here Comes the Sun" with the author. > * Loren Michaels offering $5,000 for a reunion of the Beatles. "You > wouldn't have to give Ringo a full share unless you wanted to." > * Mac doing "Hey Jude". (Hmm, there's a theme here.) > * Linda Ronstadt backing Paul Simon singing on the Christmas show. > * Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Anytime she was on camera. > * Ladysmith Black Mambazo backing Paul Simon. > * Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" singing a Christmas carole, then slowly the > "spirit" over took her resulting in a wild drum solo. > * JT doing a medley of Chuck Berry and a new anti-war song. ("Sweet > Marie" > and "Slap Leather"?) > * Bill Murray as the lounge singer on an Amtrak train, trying a bit too > hard by adding lyrics to the theme from "Star Wars". > * The recurring Samuri skits. > * Joe Piscopo as Frank Sinatra. > * Tina Fey doing "Weekend Update". > * Eddie Murphy's recurring send up of Mister Rogers, "Mister Robinson's > Neighborhood". > * Jon Lovitz as a great thespian. "How did you do that?" "EK-ting!" > "Brilliant!!" "Thank you." "Thank YOU!!" > * An inmate's poem, "Cill My Landlord", by Eddie Murphy. > * Dan Ackroyd hawking "The Bass-O-Matic". He inserts a bass and blends > it. > Pours it into a tall glass and then hands the glass off camera. They > switch > cameras to Larraine (holding an identical glass). She takes a sip and > purrs, "MMMmmm. That's good bass." > * The first 4 times Chevy opened the show with a fall. > * Larraine Newman trying to decide whether it was safe to open her > apartment > door at night... when suddenly the theme from "Jaws" sounded. Priceless. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC <"Jim Dandy to the Rescue" - Black Oak Arkansas was on the list.> A definite fun track - if you can Em search out the original by Laverne Baker. It kick's the BOA version in the ass, I think. In BOA's defense, their "Smokin' In The Boys Room" is way better than Motley Crue's cover. It's a great teen rebellion song and should be reintroduced every 20 years or so. Bob NP: Jane Hall, "Woodstock" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:37:50 -0500 From: "Mark Tatum" Subject: "Your notches, liberation doll" I agree with Richard's comments, and because the meaning of the words has long been a subject of discussion here, I add the following observation: The website below talks about an honor system in Europe where the number of beers you drink is kept track of by putting notches on the "beer mat" under your glass. The number of notches is added up at the end of the night and you pay once instead of after every beer. Could the lyrics mean that the guy is saying he has been making notches (drinking) because of the girl? A room full of glasses He says "Your notches, liberation doll" http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A197327 ........................................................................... From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: "Your notches, liberation doll" - Don't Interrupt the Sorrow You know, it's kind of a shame to limit this song with interpretation because it seems closer to poetry than most of Joni's lyrics. But I would guess that it's about the breakup of a relationship. The man seems to be hurling an insult at the woman in the song. He's seems to be saying, "You've driven me to drink. Everyone of these glasses in this room has your name on it"--or your "notches"--they're your "notches," not mine. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Sax Masters & Modern music njc Gladly. I would start with either "Bitter" (I can't truly express how phenomenal it is - check out "Loyalty" which I'm sending to you) or "Peace Beyond Passion" which is also incredibly soulful, melodic and accessible. After you get those two in your bloodstream, you can venture out to her other material. And I have to confess that I don't have her latest release yet - it was a jazz instrumental record. Hey, it took me awhile to discover Mingus too. Bob NP: Me'Shell, "Eve" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type audio/x-ms-wma which had a name of 08 Loyalty.wma] ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #307 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------