From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #304 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, August 26 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 304 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- military madness njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni's first art director dies- RIP [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] JC, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] music today(njc) [Victor Johnson ] Yet another example of rock icons crossing over into the modern era with an open mind (njc) [Victor Johnson ] Re: Joni Mitchells talent NJC [Bob Muller ] Enough Said - NJC ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: music today(njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] RE: Joni Mitchells talent ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: music today(njc) [Victor Johnson ] njc, Linda Ronstadt: Get well soon! ["Patti Parlette" ] Draft (njc) [] Re: Sax Masters njc ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Enough said (not) NJC ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Sax Masters njc [Bob Muller ] Re: Enough said (not) NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Michael Flaherty ] Re: music today(njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Enough said (not) NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Draft (njc) ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC [Victor Johnson ] Re: Enough said (not) NJC [Victor Johnson ] Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Joni Mitchells talent NJC [Andeemac2006 ] Television NJC ["Cassy" ] Re: Television NJC ["Cassy" ] Re: Enough said (not) NJC [Catherine McKay ] Joni "In Her Own Words" / Searching the JMDL [Smurf Subject: military madness njc >As for recruiting kids in college, at least those kids have a choice and are not automatically being swept away into service like back in the '60s and early 70s. If they are too naive to know what they are getting into by being attracted to the military, their family and friends can and should certainly dissuade them. < the vast majority of kids who enter the military are completely naove about war & think they are invulnerable... I wonder how many parents here (of older teens) find it easy to simply dissuade their kids from anything... & oftentimes they don't even get the opportunity... my nephew came home one day & announced to his family that he had just joined the airforce... not long after the invasion of iraq... this was a decision he made without ever once giving a smidgen of a hint to his folks that this was something he was considering (his folks by the way are huge bush supporters)... they were shocked... after struggling in high school & working a few months at a low paying job he was offered a lot of money to go into the service... I recently heard a story from a friend who came home to find recruiter in her home talking to her son ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:48:40 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni's first art director dies- RIP In today's paper: Ed Thrasher, art director, dies at 74 Big Bear City-Ed Thrasher an art director who worked on hundreds of albums with such artist as Frank Sinatra and received 12 Grammy Award nominations has died. He was 74. He died Aug. 5 of cancer at his Big Bear Lake home, said his son, Jeff Thrasher. He joined Warner Bros. Records in 1964 where he did the photography for many albums as well as print ads and posters. Albums that bore his stamp included the Jimmy Hendrix Experience's "Are You Experienced?" Joni Mitchell's "Song To A. Seagull," the Grateful Dead's "Anthem of the Sun" and Sinatra's "My Way." What a lucky guy to get to work with such legends! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:49:23 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: JC, njc Hi Ya'll, I'm going to see sweet Judy blue eyes tonight. The concert will be at a college jazz club for a small crowd, a dinner club sort of environment. I'm going with my husband and one of my best friends and her husband. It woos me. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:57:27 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: music today(njc) Awesome post! You know, we just don't get great posts like this like we used to in the 60's and 70's, the golden age of the JMDL. It's really gone down hill since then. Most of the posts today, no one will remember them in 20 years but this post I discovered, seemingly buried under all the posts from Catherine and the two Bobs. And you would never know about these posts unless you are a part of the alternative jmdl reading audience. And to not even be open to discovering new posts outside of the mainstream jmdl is a sorry state indeed. Victor On Aug 26, 2006, at 3:00 AM, Kate Bennett wrote: > > To me a good song is a good song and there are many many of those > being > released by amazing artists you would never know about unless you > are part > of the alternative music listening audience. Anyway, to not even > be open to > discovering new artists outside of mainstream media is a sorry > state indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:01:14 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Yet another example of rock icons crossing over into the modern era with an open mind (njc) Elton John to try 'Candle in the Wiz-ind'? Pop icon says he wants to work on rap album with Snoop, Kanye Friday, August 25, 2006; Posted: 10:09 p.m. EDT (02:09 GMT) LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- After 40 years of performing rock music, pop ballads and movie soundtracks, Elton John is looking to cross over to yet another musical genre -- hip hop. "I want to bring my songs and melodies to hip hop beats -- a bit like 'No Diggity' by Blackstreet," John said in excerpts of an interview posted on Rolling Stone's Web site Friday. John told the music magazine he would like to work with producer Dr. Dre and a variety of artists, although he had yet to to contact them. "I want to work with Pharrell (Williams), Timbaland, Snoop (Dogg), Kanye (West), Eminem and just see what happens. It may be a disaster, it could be fantastic, but you don't know until you try," he said. John is one of rock-n-roll's most prolific singer/songwriters and is known for flamboyant costumes and spectacular piano playing. His hits include "Your Song," "Rocket Man" and "Candle in the Wind." The 59-year-old musician's next album, "The Captain and the Kid" is expected to be released in the fall. He soared to stardom in the 1970s and has maintained a legendary status, branching into writing songs for movies like "The Lion King" and Broadway plays like "Aida." But hip hop? Actually, John performed the song "Stan" with Eminem on 2001's telecast of the Grammys, the music industry's top awards, and the pair brought the house down. Copyright 2006 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:20:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Joni Mitchells talent I do think that a lot of people try to play games with this issue its like how can we avoid anwsering or debating the point at hand.Ill try again LOL, Kate do you think that anybody in the last 10 years come anywere near the Huge artistic talent which is Joni Mitchells lifetime achievment in Music :- Clouds - Ladies Of The Canyon - Blue - For The Roses - Court And Spark - Miles Of Aisles - The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - Hejira - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Mingus - Shadows and Light - Wild Things Run Fast - Dog Eat Dog - Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm - Night Ride Home - Turbulent Indigo - Taming The Tiger - Both Sides Now - TravelogueWell do you ????? And yes isnt the very name "the Beatles" an historical institution steeped in related history, If people today try and defend Music of today by saying the Beatles are crap!!!!!!!! this shows how much the appreaciation of Lyrics Melody and Instrumental talent, which goes towards what is called MUSIC has been erased ----------- Michael Flaherty said "One thing I feel certain of: centuries from now people won't look at 60s-70s rock as anything special. Popular music, by its very nature, doesn't remain popular." Mozart anyone??I wonder how many people agree with this comment as per :- 1. Stevie Wonder 2. Led Zeppelin 3. Elton John 4. Pink Floyd 5. Rolling Stones 6. The Eagles 7. Marvin Gaye 8. Queen 9. James Brown 10. The Who 11. Black Sabbath 12. Aretha Franklin 13. David Bowie 14. Paul McCartney/Wings 15. Parliment/Funkadelic 16. The Isley Brothers 17. Fleetwood Mac 18. John Lennon 19. Bee Gees 20. Chicago 21. Bob Marley 22. Jackson Five 23. Earth, Wind & Fire 24. Al Green 25. Bruce Springsteen 26. KISS 27. The Clash 28. Curtis Mayfield 29. Lynyrd Skynyrd 30. Eric Clapton/Derek & the Dominos 31. Alice Cooper 32. Gladys Knight & The Pips 33. Allman Brothers Band 34. Aerosmith 35. Neil Young 36. Bob Dylan 37. Rod Stewart 38. The O'Jays 39. The Ramones 40. Rush 41. Bob Seger 42. Steve Miller Band 43. Grateful Dead 44. The Beach Boys 45. George Harrison 46. Sly and the Family Stone 47. Elvis Presley 48. Deep Purple 49. Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young 50. Joni Mitchell 51. Peter Frampton 52. Bachman Turner Overdrive 53. Creedence Clearwater Revival 54. Three Dog Night 55. War 56. Temptations 57. Commodores 58. AC/DC 59. The Spinners 60. Billy Joel 61. Kool & The Gang 62. ZZ Top 63. Doobie Brothers 64. Emerson, Lake & Palmer 65. Jackson Browne 66. The Staple Singers 67. Yes 68. Boston 69. Barry White 70. Kinks 71. Jethro Tull 72. Santana 73. The Guess Who 74. Steely Dan 75. Sex Pistols 76. Moody Blues 77. Electric Light Orchestra 78. Bad Company 79. Grand Funk Railroad 80. Journey 81. Foreigner 82. James Taylor 83. The Chi-Lites 84. Rufus, featuring Chaka Khan 85. Kansas 86. Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes 87. Heart 88. Donna Summer 89. Linda Ronstadt 90. Paul Simon 91. The Doors 92. Iggy Pop 93. Styx 94. Van Morrison 95. Patti Smith 96. Lou Reed 97. Van Halen 98. Foghat 99. Ohio Players 100. Traffic 101. Mott The Hoople 102. Supertramp 103. Genesis 104. Jeff Beck 105. J. Geils Band 106. America 107. Carol King 108. Warren Zevon 109. Janis Joplin 110. King Crimson 111. The Dells 112. Blue Oyster Cult 113. Four Tops 114. The Band 115. The Stylistics 116. Cat Stevens 117. Diana Ross 118. Ten Years After 119. Cheap Trick 120. Ringo Starr 121. Todd Rundgren 122. The Delfonics 123. Joe Cocker 124. Humble Pie 125. Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers 126. The Whispers 127. Bobby Womack 128. Ted Nugent 129. The Supremes 130. Edgar Winter 131. Sweet 132. The Dramatics 133. Uriah Heep 134. Joe Simon 135. Bill Withers 136. Rainbow 137. Carly Simon 138. Nazareth 139. Johnnie Taylor 140. The Three Degrees 141. Issac Hayes 142. Joe Walsh 143. Badfinger 144. Jefferson Starship 145. Elvis Costello & The Attractions 146. Eddie Kendricks 147. 10cc 148. Golden Earring 149. Alan Parsons Project 150. Stephen Stills 151. Average White Band 152. Ike & Tina Turner 153. Dave Mason 154. The New York Dolls 155. Wilson Pickett 156. Marshal Tucker Band 157. Roxy Music 158. Slade 159. The Knack 160. Meat Loaf 161. Boz Scaggs 162. Judas Priest 163. Harry Nilsson 164. The Miracles 165. Thin Lizzy 166. Rick Derringer 167. T-Rex 168. Blondie 169. Dan Fogelberg 170. Nitty Gritty Dirt Band 171. Little Feat 172. Don McLean 173. The Hollies 174. Rare Earth 175. Southside Johnny & The Asbury Jukes 176. Manfred Mann's Earth Band 177. Bootsy Collins 178. Dr. John 179. The Impressions 180. Chuck Berry 181. Orleans 182. Grass Roots 183. Brownsville Station 184. Spirit 185. Smokey Robinson 186. Robin Trower 187. Clarence Carter 188. Dave Edmunds 189. Black Oak Arkansas 190. Molly Hatchet 191. Charlie Daniels Band 192. Joe Tex 193. Tower Of Power 194. Tyrone Davis 195. Rose Royce 196. Billy Preston 197. Rufus Thomas 198. Television 199. Atlanta Rhythm Section 200. Bar Kays Have I made my point???? I think at least a hundred of these will be rememberd for a long long timeAnd you know another point I havent touched on is that most of music today, has come from all of these artists!!!!!!! are you seriously saying that the music of the last 10 years would have formed without these artists influence.For the absolutle last time from " Joni through the Beatles and the Stones, Dylan Springsteen, Elton John, Billy Joel, Jimi Hendrix, and the Who. the music of today is of average quality. I defy anybody to say that these artists in this paragraph are average!!!At this point I retire from this Thread LOL and fully accept perhaps that it is me that is losing out, in not being able to buy new CD's . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:54:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Mitchells talent NJC <195. Rose Royce> I guess I hace to finally concede your point - after all, it's hard to overestimate the massive effect that "Car Wash" had on the history of modern music. Jesus. Bob NP: Kenny Vehkavarra & Silvio Simone, "Big Yellow Taxi" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:32:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Enough Said - NJC Best Selling albums of 1969: 1 The Beatles Abbey Road 2 Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica 3 The Rolling Stones Let It Bleed 4 Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin 5 The Band The Band 6 Miles Davis In a Silent Way 7 Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin II 8 Frank Zappa Hot Rats 9 The Who Tommy 10 Frank Zappa Uncle Meat Best Selling Albums of 2005: 1. Emancipation of Mimi, - Mariah Carey (4,968,606) 2. Massacre, - 50 Cent (4,852,744) 3. Breakway, - Kelly Clarkson (3,496,192) 4. American Idiot, - Green Day (3,360,394) 5. Monkey Business, - Black Eyed Peas (3,037,251) 6. X & Y, - Coldplay (2,615,280) 7. Feels Like Today, - Rscal Flatts (2,511,209) 8. Love.Angel.Music.Baby, - Gwen Stefani (2,505,390) 9. Late Registration, - Kanye West (2,413,580) 10. Documentary, - Game (2,275,646) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:51:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: music today(njc) - --- Victor Johnson wrote: this post I > discovered, seemingly > buried under all the posts from Catherine and the > two Bobs. WTF? I'm posting a lot less than I ever used to and haven't even joined in this discussion of whether or not today's music sucks, except to offer my interpretation of what I thought Dylan was saying, and I neither agreed nor disagreed with it. I went back through about 10 days' worth of digests and found 17 from me and 8 from you. If I hadn't gotten sucked into the vegetable thread, you could take out half of mine. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC So what's the point, Jerry? I love lists as much as the next guy but I don't see the point. Joni only had 1 song that broke through to the top ten, does that mean she's no good? Comparing sales to quality is like comparing doughnuts to keys - just like comparing a list of best sellers in 1969 to best sellers in 2005. Bob NP: Elton John, "Whenever You're Ready, We'll Go Steady again" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:02:23 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC The point is that it was a classic period of both making great music and great music selling and being listened to. There have always been period in culture where the cream rises to the top. That era was one of them. It's the same as saying the greatest era of Hollywood was 1939. Sure there are good movies today, but do they compare to these, all released in one year? Gone With the Wind Dark Victory Goodbye Mr. Chips Love Affair Mr. Smith Goes to Washington Ninotchka Of Mice and Men Stagecoach The Wizard of Oz Wuthering Heights Destry Rides Again Drums Along the Mohawk Golden Boy Gulliver's Travels Gunga Din Huckleberry Finn The Hunchback of Notre Dame Intermezzo Jesse James The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex The Story of Alexander Graham Bell The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle The Three Musketeers The Women Young Mr. Lincoln Do the musicals or plays of the past ten years compare to the great Golden Age of Broadway? It is a valid arguement. Jerry > So what's the point, Jerry? I love lists as much > as the next guy but I don't see the point. > > Joni only had 1 song that broke through to the > top ten, does that mean she's no good? > > Comparing sales to quality is like comparing > doughnuts to keys - just like comparing a list of > best sellers in 1969 to best sellers in 2005. > > Bob > > NP: Elton John, "Whenever You're Ready, We'll Go > Steady again" > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:20:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC Good point. However, there is one difference between the other forms of culture you mention(movies, broadway) which is that the production & distribution is pretty much the same. The production & distribution of music is radically changed. Unless you are listening to all those under the radar releases then how do you know this is not a golden age also? If you are comparing major releases between eras you are right. But that isn't where the good music is these days. I challenge anyone who doesn't believe this to attend a weekend of international folk alliance (forget the word folk in the title) & tell me there aren't hundreds of amazing music made by some astounding artists of all genres. >The point is that it was a classic period of both making great music and great music selling and being listened to. There have always been period in culture where the cream rises to the top. That era was one of them. < ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC They are not mutaaly exclusive, either. Just because one era was a "golden age" doesn't mean there isn't great output now. And movies are much different now than then. Many would argue that the age of studio controlled output, however restrictive, had great advantages over quality than today's. > Good point. However, there is one difference between the other forms of > culture you mention(movies, broadway) which is that the production & > distribution is pretty much the same. The production & distribution of > music is radically changed. Unless you are listening to all those under > the > radar releases then how do you know this is not a golden age also? If you > are comparing major releases between eras you are right. But that isn't > where the good music is these days. I challenge anyone who doesn't > believe > this to attend a weekend of international folk alliance (forget the word > folk in the title) & tell me there aren't hundreds of amazing music made > by > some astounding artists of all genres. > > >>The point is that it was a classic period of both making great music and > great music selling and being listened to. There have always been period > in culture where the cream rises to the top. That era was one of them. < ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:35:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchells talent Yes I do. >Ill try again LOL, Kate do you think that anybody in the last 10 years come anywere near the Huge artistic talent which is Joni Mitchells lifetime achievment in Music < ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:49:28 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Enough Said (not) - NJC Good, that is my only point. To dismiss this era of music without having actually listened to much of what is being produced is like having only 3 channels on your tv and saying there is nothing good on tv anymore. >They are not mutaaly exclusive, either. Just because one era was a "golden age" doesn't mean there isn't great output now.< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:01:47 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: music today(njc) It was just a joke Catherine...not to be taken seriously...:) Victor, who tries to find humor in everything On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Victor Johnson wrote: > this post I >> discovered, seemingly >> buried under all the posts from Catherine and the >> two Bobs. > > WTF? I'm posting a lot less than I ever used to and > haven't even joined in this discussion of whether or > not today's music sucks, except to offer my > interpretation of what I thought Dylan was saying, and > I neither agreed nor disagreed with it. > > I went back through about 10 days' worth of digests > and found 17 from me and 8 from you. If I hadn't > gotten sucked into the vegetable thread, you could > take out half of mine. > > > Catherine > Toronto > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:41:24 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Linda Ronstadt: Get well soon! Dear Joniamigos: While catching up on my newspaper reading today (ah, blessed Saturday!), I saw a little piece about Linda Ronstadt, and then googled to find an article I could share with you: "Ronstadt Nixes Post-Op Gigs by Gina Serpe Aug 25, 2006, 10:20 AM PT Well, this is no good. Linda Ronstadt has canceled the remaining dates on her tour in order to recover from an unexpected--and unspecified--surgery earlier this week. "It wasn't an emergency, but it came about rather quickly, so she decided to do it sooner rather than later," the "You're No Good" singer's agent, Shelly Schultz, told the Associated Press. "It's surgery, it's completed, and she's fine." The easy-listening legend was due to perform on the road into October, including a headlining gig at the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival near San Francisco, as well as concerts in San Jose, Salt Lake City and Houston, but will instead remain in recovery mode through the end of the year. While Ronstadt's camp has kept mum on the reason for the last minute operation, Schultz was quick to shoot down rumors of a more serious condition, telling the AP that cancer was not the culprit. In any case, the 60-year-old seven-time Grammy winner will spend an "undetermined" amount of time recuperating in her Arizona abode before seeking some R&R in San Francisco with her two adopted children, Mary, 14, and Carlos, 12. Earlier this month, she drew ire from her Arizona home base after telling the San Francisco Chronicle that she decided to spend more time in California nearly a year ago after being unable to bear Tucson's "strip mall culture and right-wing mentality." Ronstadt's latest album, Adieu False Heart, was released last month." (That is from: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,19856,00.html ) A snippet from another site had this: "Ronstadt hit the headlines recently after launching a scathing verbal attack on President George W. Bush, calling him an "idiot" and "immoral." " (Ha! Did she ever sing "Tell It Like It Is"?) That was from: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=8295 (I don't what kind of site that is, but there are some *really* mean comments posted there, so I high-tailed it out of there.) I saw Linda in June and she had the voice of angel. It was like seeing an old friend; I've "known" Linda longer than Joni! I can't remember all the details, but I left being very impressed with her classiness and intelligence (she told us she doesn't own a TV) and grace. She closed out the show talking about how much she loved the New Orleans area and its people, and dedicated "Blue Bayou" to the people there and Bush's handling of the Katrina devastation. (Hi Paz. Thinking of you and your friends and kin on this anniversary, wishing you all better days ahead.) Best wishes for your speedy recovery, Linda, and I hope people will mind their own business about your "mystery illness." Sheesh! Sometimes things are just *personal*! I wish you comfort and healing and the personal space you need. And happy belated 60th birthday (from July, I think?)! Love, Patti P. NPIMH: Blue Bayou ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:38:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: Enough said (not) NJC Hey JoniBuds, Interesting thread. Here's my 2 cents: I've always looked at it this way, each generation digs the music that was out in their teens and 20's, then, when the next generation's music becomes sufficiently different, we aren't sparked by it, it's too different from the music we fell in love with when our horomones were raging. My dad calls all music past the big band era "shit music." For him, when rock and roll replaced big band music, esp. Stan Kenton, that was the end of new music for him. He still listens to mostly Stan Kenton and he's 77 years old!! But for him, it's what he fell in love with, and nothing else compares. I've enjoyed the complexity of the arguments of this thread, but I guess I'm right back where I started. As a side note, what happened to good humor? WTF!!! The heyday of Saturday Night Live, Eddie Murphy, Mike Myers, Chevy Chase, John Belushi you know what I'm saying. That was they heyday of "real" humor. Comic's today are not funny!!! OR is it just that the humor I was exposed to in my teens and 20's when my horomones were raging is what I fell in love with and anything else that is significantly different just doesn't do it for me. Love, Alice notaro@stpt.usf.edu wrote: The point is that it was a classic period of both making great music and great music selling and being listened to. There have always been period in culture where the cream rises to the top. That era was one of them. It's the same as saying the greatest era of Hollywood was 1939. Sure there are good movies today, but do they compare to these, all released in one year? Gone With the Wind Dark Victory Goodbye Mr. Chips Love Affair Mr. Smith Goes to Washington Ninotchka Of Mice and Men Stagecoach The Wizard of Oz Wuthering Heights Destry Rides Again Drums Along the Mohawk Golden Boy Gulliver's Travels Gunga Din Huckleberry Finn The Hunchback of Notre Dame Intermezzo Jesse James The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex The Story of Alexander Graham Bell The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle The Three Musketeers The Women Young Mr. Lincoln Do the musicals or plays of the past ten years compare to the great Golden Age of Broadway? It is a valid arguement. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:07:47 -0700 From: Subject: Draft (njc) Kate wrote: >I disagree that this issue comes up because people want to have bigger >protests & reasons to be outraged. >I think the reason you hear it being brought up periodically is because it >actually was >a bill before congress a couple of years ago Yes, I know that and know it was almost unanimously shot down. So why do some people still put it out there and try to rile people up about it?? That's what I mean when I say it seems some people almost want it to be reinstated for some kind of agenda. I have heard a number of congress people come out all for it in the past few years. I have heard a number of congress people come out all for it in the past few years. They seemed sincerely in favor of it and did not seem to be taking that position as just a ruse to have it shot down. It is not something to play games about. It is a very emotional topic to me and looking back in history to Vietnam, one can see many games that were played. >but this administration has found a way around the draft... the recruiting >methods (obtaining information from the schools >without parents knowing & the large sums of money promised to children if >they enlist and many other promises not always kept) is incredibly sleezy I'm not trying to be dense here, but the government has had recruiting programs for the military ever since I can remember. There have been junior ROTC groups in high schools for a long, long time and in colleges. Information on students has always been shared with the federal government for many purposes other than recruiting. It just kills me that some people seem to think this is one more thing that started with this administration. I don't have details on promises never kept but I'm all for giving them generous compensation for their service. I can't think of any people who deserve it more. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:20:12 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Sax Masters njc John Handy came to our area a few months ago, and he was the best sax fiend I have ever heard. Tangential Joni connection to Mingus: Though alto saxophonist John Handy was officially a member of Charles Mingus' group for only a few months, his recordings with the renowned tough bandleader have since become classics: Ah Um (Columbia), Blues and Roots (Atlantic), and Jazz Portrait: Mingus in Wonderland (United Artists) all were recorded in the beginning of the same year - 1959. "Periodically, within a four to five month period, I would quit from time to time then return to the band. Ultimately, I left because of his bullying of other musicians. I told him I could hit a lot faster with my saxophone than he could with his bass! He said 'You're crazy', and then Mingus and I both laughed." A friend of mine just produced a CD by saxman Gary Brown that is very good, too-although doesn't seem to be available yet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:44:11 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Enough said (not) NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Brown" > As a side note, what happened to good humor? WTF!!! The heyday of > Saturday Night Live, Eddie Murphy, Mike Myers, Chevy Chase, John Belushi > you know what I'm saying. That was they heyday of "real" humor. Comic's > today are not funny!!! Try: The Daily Show w/John Stewart/Steve Colbert Report/Real Time w/Bill Maher/The Simpsons/King of the Hill/Curb Your Enthusiasm Standup: The late Bill Hicks ranks with the very best. Louie CK is good. Re: SNL they floated a lot of turds back then, too-we just remember the funny bits. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:44:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Sax Masters njc And he also does a nice cover of "Hissing of Summer Lawns"... Bob NP: Spirit Of The West, "Coyote" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:57:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Enough said (not) NJC That's an excellent point, Alice, and I agree with you. We associate lots of music with those rites of passage; when we get our first jobs, start making money to buy our own music, go to parties and dances where songs get a special association, hanging out with friends listening to the radio or to records, etc. Even the songs that we remember from when we got our drivers license and got that first taste of real freedom. And like Em said earlier, so much of this music becomes our lifelong musical diet, like Joni says 'songs are like tattoos' and we get tattooed with so many of them over the years we maybe feel like there's no more space to be tattooed! I do think it's interesting however when kids who are in their teens get stuck on the same songs I loved when I was that age. While I think it does speak for the high quality of that era, I don't necessarily think that it condemns what is coming out now. Funny bit of synchronicity...I got the new "Wired" magazine today, and the cover features Beck along with the title "The Rebirth of Music: Radio Sucks, The Labels are Lame. Now Bands are taking over - and fans are getting what they want". Haven't read it yet but I'm sure it'll be fascinating stuff. As for comedians, I love Lewis Black and Carlos Mencia. I agree that SNL definitely had their glory years and they haven't been very funny in a while. There are so many media sources now, the writing has been spread very thin. Bob NP: Jeff Buckley, "Corpus Christi Carol" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:03:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC OK, that's a valid comment. I buy it. The mistaken correlation would be to say that today's music isn't as good though. The point is that the best stuff doesn't get exposed and marketed as well as it did in 1969. Another interesting point from the two lists - the 1969 list (with the exception of Miles Davis) was all white and the 2005 list was mostly black. I think it also speaks to the rising purchasing power of the increase in the black middle class. Bob NP: Patricia van Nunen, "Woodstock" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:20:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC notaro@stpt.usf.edu wrote: >The point is that it was a classic period of both making great music and great music selling and being listened to. There have always been period in culture where the cream rises to the top. That seems like a different issue to me. Keep in mind, Miles Davis's biggest seller, Kind of Blue, predates this era (65-75 or whatever years are so special). To Andeemac's point, Classical music has been kept alive more through academic and cultual institutions (who now find the job nearly impossible) than by being popular. Of course, technically Mozart, Bach, etc. leave all modern popular music in the dust, but I think that, again, is a different issue. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:41:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: music today(njc) - --- Victor Johnson wrote: > It was just a joke Catherine...not to be taken > seriously...:) > > Victor, who tries to find humor in everything > OK. Sorry. I'm obviously hypersensitive these days. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Enough said (not) NJC - --- Alice Brown wrote: > Hey JoniBuds, > > Interesting thread. Here's my 2 cents: I've > always looked at it this way, each generation digs > the music that was out in their teens and 20's, > then, when the next generation's music becomes > sufficiently different, we aren't sparked by it, > it's too different from the music we fell in love > with when our horomones were raging. I think you've got it. What we listen to in our formative years becomes the music of our lives. Which is not to say that there isn't anything else good out there, because there is plenty. You just have to elbow your way past the Pussycat Dolls and Fergie singing (for lack of a better word) "London Bridge" and go to festivals and clubs and talk to other people that like music, or pay attention to what your kids are listening to, once they've got past the Barbie-doll stage. > As a side note, what happened to good humor? > WTF!!! I've seen and heard a lot of good comics on the Comedy Network, but I probably couldn't tell you any of their names. We've been watching BBC-K (BBC service in Canada) and reruns of "Kids in the hall", but I guess that's at least ten years old, so it doesn't count, but it still makes me laugh. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:56:09 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Draft (njc) The reason some on the left has called for a draft is strategic- they feel that until the reality of this idiotic war hits home with voters, and their own sons and daughters are enlisted, they will not get heated up enough to pull the plug. No one on the left wants this to go on....that's the neo cons and of course the armament profiteers, infrastructure corporations, etc....(oops, same thing). I do not support a draft, but recognize that we already have a poverty draft. Because poor kids have limited options, they fall for the lure of education and salary. They mostly regret their decision, and resent their shoddy treatment by the military. I've met a couple of them-one in my family. While they are patriotic middle America types, they have no intention of going back there. As to the comment that there are other non-combat jobs in the military, whatever they promise, once you sign, they put you wherever they want to. I've heard this over and over-that despite your training, you usually end up doing something you weren't trained for. The whole 'support the troops' sloganry is pretty hollow considering how the gov't itself treats them. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:12:15 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC Another analogy comes to mind...One might think there may never be pitchers again as amazing as Roger Clements, Nolan Ryan, Greg Maddux, Sandy Koufax....but then you see players like Jonathon Papelbon, Justin Verlander, Dontrelle Willis....there is amazing young talent and someday, many of these young pitchers will be held in as much revery as the ones who have retired or are close to retiring....look at Johnny Pujols, A-Rod, Carlos Beltran who are said the among the best players in the game today. Life doesn't stop...it just keeps growing. "There's something lost and something gained in living every day." Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:24:22 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Enough said (not) NJC >> As a side note, what happened to good humor? >> WTF!!! > One word..... Chapelle Show! as well as Robot Chicken from adult swim(which I just discovered last weekend!) and the Simpsons, Family Guy. Speaking of television there are three shows I watch that I think are brilliant Lost 24 and Prison Break. Victor NP: Braves post game show ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:53:05 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Enough Said (not) - NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" > Good point. However, there is one difference between the other forms of > culture you mention(movies, broadway) which is that the production & > distribution is pretty much the same. Jerry has already addressed this but I wanted to add my 2 cents as someone who loves classic movies and has held 1939 as *the* banner year of the Hollywood movie for a long time. The production and distribution of movies was very different then from what it is today. The studio's were all-powerful back then, holding their stars under very restrictive contracts and churning out films practically like an assembly line. They were like factories with armies of people employed in each department - set design and contruction, matt painting, costume design and construction, music, sound, special effects, lighting, photography, publicity, promotion, legal department - all under one employer, one studio. It's a wonder that so much quality did emerge if you think of it like that. But if you consider the quality of the talent that went into the making of those movies, it's not that hard to see why so many of them were so wonderful. Sound in films had only been around for about 10 years and technicolor was even newer than that. Hollywood was just beginning to explore the possibilities of these innovations and it drew skilled people from almost all of the arts. Writers like Lillian Hellman, Dashiel Hammet, William Faulkner, Alduous Huxley, Ring Lardner and many others wrote for films at one time or another during the 30s and 40s. Actors and musicians were recruited from the broadway stages. Designers, painters, composers were all under contract to the studios. It's true, MGM turned out a lot of fluff, Warner Brothers put out a stream of programmers and all of the studios put out more than their share of 'B' movies. But there were also a lot people very much concerned with quality and it seems there were an uncommon number of 'prestige' pictures that were released in 1939. They were beautifully crafted, well written, often based on high quality material and acted by committed, competent performers, many of whom were at the peak of their careers. Actors often went on promotional tours to promote a movie. MGM also controlled the distribution of their films and owned the Loew's chain which had theatres all over the US. For highly anticipated releases, promotional materials were sent out to all of the theatres with posters, lobby cards, sometimes commemorative programs with instructions on how the film was to be presented and promoted. A far cry from the multiplex experience of today. I don't think there is anything in place like the studio system now. It had its pluses and its drawbacks. But the dream factory did turn out a lot of entertaining, high quality and even occasionally provocative movies in its heyday. I have to admit that the only album I am familiar with on the list of top releases from 1969 was Abbey Road. I never really had the money to spend on record albums that some of you seem to have had. Even in college when I bought a lot more music, I had to be very selective with what I bought. I also came late to an appreciation of the music of that time, being very naive and conservative in some ways in my teens. I can't really speak to the music of the present as I know very little about it. One comment that stood out to me in this discussion is that some of today's artist point to the artists of the classic rock era as influences. I don't think that necessarily proves anything because if you were to ask any of the artists of the so-called 'Golden Era' they would cite artists from previous eras that influenced them. None of them appeared out of the blue completely formed, completely new, completely original. Each new generation takes something from the previous generations and builds on it. My particular fluke is that I seem to get drawn into explorations of what came before and therefore have a tendency to miss the here and now. At some point, Rickie Lee Jones clicked with me and I had to go back and find out what I'd missed. Right now I am fascinated by 'Hounds of Love' and am trying to assimilate Kate Bush. In the 80s somebody gave me a Billie Holiday album for my birthday and that was a long, long detour into the vast amount of recorded material that she left behind, almost to the exclusion of everything else. That particular detour went on for a few years. Dusty Springfield is another artist that I didn't discover until a few years ago. So much music, not enough time. Somebody else mentioned listening to music in their car. I used to listen to music all the time when I drove back and forth to work. Now I take a bus downtown back and forth to work and I read. I don't like the way headphones cut me off from the rest of the world and I like to read on the bus. So my music listening is confined to the weekends when I use my car and the odd occasion when I put something on while I'm at the computer. I too used to just sit in front of the stereo and listen, often with the album cover in my hand, looking at lyrics and liner notes. I find it hard to imagine doing that now. Of course, marijuana played a part in that. It was easy to do nothing but listen to music while I was stoned. But pot is too strong nowadays and I stopped using it a long time ago because I just didn't enjoy it anymore. Ok, I'm done for now. Just walking what's left of my wits. Back to lurkdom. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:59:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Re: Joni Mitchells talent NJC Bob Muller said >Subject: Re: Joni Mitchells talent NJC >I guess I hace to finally concede your point - >after all, it's hard to overestimate the massive >effect that "Car Wash" had on the history of >modern music. Jesus. - ----------------------------------------------------- Hey!! why do bother to subscribe to the joni Digest if you hold that Opinion. Lame very lame Bob!!!!!!!!!!!! and you had to use profanity as well MY My !!!!! You may as well do what the Republicans do in this situation and call me a Liberal the ultimate insult. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:09:01 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Television NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" <<< Speaking of television there are three shows I watch that I think are brilliant Lost 24 and Prison Break >>> My favorite shows are: Mythbusters The 4400 Medium The Closer The L Word Weeds ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:21:51 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Television NJC From: "Cassy" <<< My favorite shows are: Mythbusters The 4400 Atiques Roadshow Medium The Closer The L Word Weeds >>> I was watching television during the day a few days ago which I very rarely do. I started watching a movie called "A Walk on the Moon" (1999). The movie stars Diane Lane, Viggo Mortensen and Anna Paquin. The story was set in 1969 and is about the awakening of a repressed housewife and her teenage daughter during the Woodstock era. All of a sudden my ears perked up... OMG it was Cactus Tree - Joni Mitchell! The soundtrack for this film was excellent and I found myself wondering what would be next. Here is a list of the soundtrack contents but this doesn't include everything they used in the film.. 1. Sunlight - The Youngbloods 2. Town Without Pity - Mandy Barnett 3. Wishin' & Hopin' - Dusty Springfield 4. Sally Go Round The Roses - Damnations TX 5. Summertime - Big Brother & The Holding Company 6. Crystal Blue Persuasion - Morcheeba 7. Today - Jefferson Airplane 8. Embryonic Journey - Jefferson Airplane 9. Cactus Tree - Jone Mitchell 10. Ripple - Grateful Dead 11. Helplessly Hoping - Taxiride 12. No Matter What You Do - Mojave 3 13. Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Judy Collins 14. White Bird - It's A Beautiful Day 15. Follow - Richie Havens 16. Crimson & Clover - Elijah Blue Allman/Cher Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:31:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Enough said (not) NJC - --- Victor Johnson wrote: > >> As a side note, what happened to good humor? > >> WTF!!! > > > > One word..... > > Chapelle Show! All I've seen is snippets as TV ads, but he looks very funny. > as well as Robot Chicken from adult swim(which I > just discovered last > weekend!) and the Simpsons, Family Guy. > The Simpsons continues to be very good and very funny, most of the time - as long as they leave celebrities out of it, or as long as the celebrities aren't playing themselves. Futurama was also very good, but unfortunately they cancelled it, but I think that was due to the fact that they kept moving it around so you never knew when it was on. > Speaking of television there are three shows I watch > that I think are > brilliant > > Lost > 24 > and Prison Break. > I got hooked on Prison Break after my son started watching it. We rented all the DVDs of Season 1 and now are watching Season 2 as it plays. I've become more of a couch potato since moving and am watching more TV (sigh). I'll admit I'm addicted to Rock Star Supernova. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Joni "In Her Own Words" / Searching the JMDL > I was just trying to explain to someone about the > thing we did a couple of years ago (aka "Thesaurus > Joni") where we took Joni songs and substituted > synonyms for Joni's words. Unfortunately, I couldn't > remember ANY examples, and I have no idea how to > search the JMDL archives. I know Hell was involved, > and that Catherine wrote one based on "Don't > Interrupt > the Sorrow," but I couldn't remember any more -- > even > whatever I wrote. > > Can someone help? > > Thanks. > > XO, > > --Smurf > > . > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #304 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------