From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #294 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, August 20 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 294 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #293 [Snapple1984@aol.com] Re: need joni help ["Martin Giles" ] Neil Young on the Colbert Report 8/17 njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: synesthesia, njc ["mia _" ] Re: need joni help njc ["Randy Remote" ] Borderline on You Tube ["mia _" ] RE: need joni help njc ["Richard Flynn" ] Slide Guitar ["Cassy" ] Re: need joni help njc [BWORKMAN@woh.rr.com] Joni & James At the BBC on CD, for blanks and postage, njc ["Jim L'Hommed] Re: Minnelli at the Outgames - now Cocker Content -- njc ["Lori Fye" ] njc, TV Alert: Cirque du Soleil's Beatles "Love" ["Patti Parlette" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:17:38 EDT From: Snapple1984@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #293 I still don't think I've figured out this listserv thing yet. I'm trying not to drag along the whole string of messages from last time. I am currently working on a book proposal about a book about my experiences with OCD, depression and the mental health system. I wrote a short piece about Joni and obsessional thinking. I'd really appreciate anyone's feedback if you have the time. Please don't jump on me for being snotty! Thanks! The Circle Game (One, Two, Cinch Up My Shoe) Kira Lesley Until my first psychiatric hospitalization, I never understood the opening skit of Eminem's "The Slim Shady LP", in which he says, "Children should not partake of the listening of this album with laces in their shoes". The nurses took my shoelaces away when I was 20, a late bloomer. (James Taylor had his first psych stay at 17). So here I go, sounding like I'm arrogantly and erroneously comparing myself to James Taylor. Sounding like his one-time lover Joni Mitchell did on her live album, Miles of Aisles, when she responded to audience requests for popular melodies by saying, "No one ever said to Van Gogh, 'Paint us Starry Night again, man'". While music world expectations undoubtedly differ from those of the visual arts world, Joni's comparing herself to Van Gogh can't help but come off as a bit conceited. Allow me to interject that I am also not comparing myself to Joni Mitchell, or even just referencing her quote in a self-important manner. I hate the many music people who reference this quote smugly, but not because I think it's pretentious or even because I don't like the quote very much. Rather, the reason I dislike people quote-dropping this line in particular is that it displays only a sophomoric knowledge of Joni's music - Miles of Aisles is one of her most popular recordings - yet quoters think they are initiating me into the secret mystery rites of Joni Mitchell. So essentially I hate people for falsely believing that they know a lot when they don't. I obsess over Joni and her music and I would never make the mistake of getting in over my head with a fellow fan by using shallow, obvious quotes. How snobbish and yet, simultaneously, I hate music snobs so I go round and round and round in the circle game (but at least I know alluding to "The Circle Game" is trite) and end up hating myself again. Not only do I hate myself for being a music snob, but also I hate myself on a much more visceral level as well. When trying to learn Joni's chords (Polio left her semi-crippled and to match her defects from the disease, she tuned the strings of her guitar to obscure tunings, rather than leaving it in the standard EAGBDE tuning), I twist and contort my fingers to grasp the foreign shapes. Then I strum, and if I hear a dissonant note, I force my fingers back into position and hold them there, stretching to the point where my fingers feel as if they are about to tear apart. If I make another mistake, I pound and pound on my stomach as punishment. I am reminded of my childhood idol, Martin Luther, who was also caught in the cycle of self-hatred. Before his conversion, Martin would beat himself to the point of near death in punishment for sin. One day, he prayed at the altar for several hours. When the chief priest asked Martin why he had taken so long, he replied that he was taught he must confess every sin, and he had been very sinful. The priest responded by asking him whether or not he thought hogging the altar for so long was selfish. The same cycle is true of many fourth-century Christian ascetics I learned about as part of my Religious Studies concentration at Brown. Middle Eastern monks performed spectacular feats, such as hanging themselves off the side of cliffs in burlap sacks and living there for years. St. Anthony of Egypt battled demons for twenty years in an abandoned fort while subsisting on unleavened bread and water. They fought their own bodies and minds in an effort to subjugate them to the soul. When the body and mind were kept in check the ascetics could perform miracles and truly live out God's will. St. Anthony coined the phrase: "My body kills me; therefore I kill my body." But no matter what they did to themselves and how much they suffered, other sects believed these ascetics were selfish for focusing so much on self-betterment. If their lesson taught me anything it's that no matter what I do, I'm going to lose. In the case of Joni Mitchell, I strive to discipline my mind and fingers. Training my fingers is simple, but training my mind takes a bit more finesse. I aim to eradicate my obsession about how it would sound to others if they thought I was comparing myself to Joni, and the subsequent obsession about my obsession, because it's all too selfishly focused on self-betterment. The above goes to show how far an obsessive mind can distance itself from shoelaces. In the mental ward, nurses confiscate shoelaces for fear that we patients will asphyxiate ourselves - auto-erotically or otherwise. Instead, they issue plastic ties that poke through shoelace loops and twist to a painful, cinching knot. If I can keep my mind from obsessing about Joni Mitchell or my feet, I am on the path to subjugating the mind and body to the soul. Currently, my feet hurt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:35:23 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: need joni help Hi Billy So often, I when hear the subject of poetry in popular music come up (on the media or otherwise), I hear Bob Dylan's name immediatley, but very rarely have I heard Joni mentioned. This is in the UK; it could well be different elsewhere. It seems that even the most ignorant have heard of Dylan. On the other hand Mitchell is not on the radar of the GB's poet laureate, Andrew Motion (who is a big Dylan fan). I've never really listened to Bonnie Raitt's guitar playing. Is she good? Martin. > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:05:14 EDT > From: Wtking59@cs.com > Subject: Re: need joni help > > Perhaps, Martin. But then again, I believe Joni IS recognized as one of > popular music's greatest lyricists. In fact, I'd venture to say that most > critic's > consider them to be her absolute specialty. > > And when music magazine's and such conduct their various polls for > "all-time > best (female?) guitarist," Joni often ranks rather highly (...usually, > just > behind Bonnie Raitt). > > However, when it came to playing the piano she (unfortunately) could never > compare to the furious, emotional brilliance of the great Laura Nyro. > > > XXXOOO, > Billy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:46:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Neil Young on the Colbert Report 8/17 njc Neil's view on the war in Iraq. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oBavlNfAKM Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:01:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Your essay NJC Hi Kira, I thought your essay was very engaging. Well-written and thought-provoking. The word "quoter" looked strange to me but it's a valid word, just not one I've seen used very often. Thanks for sharing your talents. Bob NP: Badly Drawn Boy, "Bewilderbeast" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:07:02 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: Re: synesthesia, njc Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you so much for sharing all that wonderful information on synesthesia, neural pathways, connections, etc.. The songs I love the most are the ones in which I can feel and see colors. I need to tap into your neurological expertise regarding a different sensation I've been experiencing. I'm hoping you can help me out (do you charge by the hour? :) ) The past few years I've noticed something strange that happens after I'm done playing my guitar. It usually only happens after I've really gotten lost in the music - both singing and playing. When I'm finished, I'll go over to read something (mail, newspaper, lyrics, etc...), and I can't read the words. There are like fuzzy holes in all the letters. If I wait an hour or so, my reading vision comes back and I can read again. I've talked to my eye doc about this, and he's never heard of it. Could this be the beginning of old age? Am I freak? Can I damage by brain permanently by playing/singing music? (God help me!!) Thanks, (and I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for advice today) Mia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:31:36 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: need joni help njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Giles" > I've never really listened to Bonnie Raitt's guitar playing. Is she good? IMO there have been 3 great (stimulating?) slide guitarists in the rock idiom; Duane Allman, George Harrison, and Bonnie Raitt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:33:36 -0500 From: "mia _" Subject: Borderline on You Tube I'm just now starting to get addicted to youtube.com (always runnin' behind the times). The Borderline video is my favorite Joni video, hands down! Makes me cry every time I watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4fvbzmDmoM&NR Mia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:54:22 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: need joni help njc How could you leave out Lowell George (who taught Bonnie _a lot_). Beats George Harrison with his slide tied behind his back in the guitar battles in the hereafter. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy Remote Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:32 PM To: Martin Giles; joni@smoe.org; Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: need joni help njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Giles" > I've never really listened to Bonnie Raitt's guitar playing. Is she good? IMO there have been 3 great (stimulating?) slide guitarists in the rock idiom; Duane Allman, George Harrison, and Bonnie Raitt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:43:13 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Slide Guitar And Elmore James? He's not chopped liver, albeit he's a blues man. Warmly, Cassy From: "Richard Flynn" <<< How could you leave out Lowell George (who taught Bonnie _a lot_). Beats George Harrison with his slide tied behind his back in the guitar battles in the hereafter. >>> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Remote IMO there have been 3 great (stimulating?) slide guitarists in the rock idiom; Duane Allman, George Harrison, and Bonnie Raitt. >>> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:42:28 -0400 From: BWORKMAN@woh.rr.com Subject: Re: need joni help njc What about Ry Cooder, David Lindley? The ones you name are good but you've got to consider those two as well. Brian Workman - ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Remote Date: Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:39 pm Subject: Re: need joni help njc To: Martin Giles , joni@smoe.org, Wtking59@cs.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Giles" > > > I've never really listened to Bonnie Raitt's guitar playing. Is > she good? > > IMO there have been 3 great (stimulating?) slide guitarists in the > rock idiom; Duane Allman, George Harrison, and Bonnie Raitt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:56:21 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Joni & James At the BBC on CD, for blanks and postage, njc Yo, If anyone is new to the list, you may not have the 3 discs I'm offering today. If you send blanks and return postage, I'll put these shows on them and send 'em back. Disc 1 - ----- Joni's appearance at the Paris Theatre for BBC on Oct. 29, 1969 is disc1. This recording has my favorite "take" of `California`; it's just Joni on dulcimer and James on guitar. She tells several stories and played at least one song that was unreleased at the time. The chemistry between Joni & James in unmistakable. For his part, James explains and plays a song that began life as a parody. Since then, it has become one of his classics. This disc is a classic performance which many people bought as a poor-quality bootleg 30 years ago. Now you can have a top-quality edition. Heck, there are even bonus tracks. http://www.jonimitchell.com/chronology/ Discs 2 & 3 - ----------- Joni gives great interviews. Here, she visited one of the most musically-literate interviewers in the US, David Dye. He asked her to explain how she works with Wayne Shorter for example. Along the way, she picked a "Nefertiti" as a Miles Davis track which she likes and talked about collaborating with Crosby on "Yvette In English". So, if you promise not to sell it, write to me off-list and I'll set you up. All the best, Jim L. Dayton, Ohio, US To see me now is like watchin' a fish on dry land. I only wish you could see me down in the islands. Mister, that's my home. What a fool I was to leave the only happiness I've known. jt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:46:46 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Minnelli at the Outgames - now Cocker Content -- njc Smurf asked, about my comment that Joe Cocker behaved like a buffoon when I saw him in concert a few years ago: > And this performance differed from his earlier ones in what way? LOL! I guess it didn't. He never really could sing, although there is a song or two of his that I liked at one time ... although I couldn't tell you the name(s). Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 00:02:08 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: ABC Primetime - Colors - Synestheisa (NJC) Thanks Kakki. I think the main difference between what you experience and what I experience is one, my experience is totally involuntary and two, it's like an old friend...someone you've known all of your life. The unique thing about synesthesia is that it's life long. The joy that you get from those visuals I think is always the same. With synesthesia, it's like a crashing and explosion of emotion, color and sound. A beautiful sunset or sunrise evokes similar emotions and the swirling of colors has a similar affect. The colors are not the same as actually looking at a solid pallatte (sp?). Your brain is sending the signal telling you what the actual color is you are hearing instead of your eyes, so the color is actually spacial, something right in front of you and simultaneous with the chord you are hearing. (I have this with chords) Someone likened the movie Fantasia as a good example of what synesthesia would be like but since I've only seen it once, I can't say for sure. Your former boyfriend may actually have synesthesia of some sort. That's a common reaction among us. From a young age, we are under the impression that everyone else has what we have. We painfully find out otherwise when we try to tell our parents that "the song is green" only to be met with a blank stare. That's no one's fault because how can a song be green? I'm not sure how I would have reacted either if the situation were reversed! (Smile) Sherelle Kakki wrote: What a gift to see colors when you hear music. I don't quite have it but when I was in college studying for tests in music history where we had to listen to music and identify the composer and style, I studied by writing down the visuals that I saw in my mind's eye when I heard a particular piece of music. I had a whole list for classical and jazz music and my method worked fairly well. A former boyfriend who is a songwriter and musician used to tell me that whenever he closed his eyes he saw vivid rainbows of colors and thought that was normal and everyone had that experience. Um, no. Way back in my college days, I took a few physiological psychology courses to see what research had been done connecting the physical senses and creativity. It was in its infancy then but over the years there have been many fascinating discoveries and synesthisia is just one of them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:55:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: RE: ABC Primetime - Colors - Synestheisa (NJC) - --- Sherelle said: > That's no one's fault because how can a song > be green? Well, Sherelle, I think we can all agree that a song can be a little green. XO, - --Smurf, hoping I get this response posted before Catherine beats me to it . . . . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:27:27 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Shameless Self-Promotion NJC If anyone is in or around Savannah, Georgia, my trio is playing at the Savannah Folk Music Society First Friday for Folk Music on September 1st: http://www.savannahfolk.org/firstfriday.htm With a pic of me playing slide guitar! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:31:05 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, TV Alert: Cirque du Soleil's Beatles "Love" An NBC special on right now (9 p.m. EST).....Beatles, French Canadian style...magnifique! If you can tolerate the Entertainment Tonight/Access Hollywood-whatever announcers and Las Vegas-y glitz, there are some real pearls here! I think I heard the whole thing was George's idea. (All You Need Is) Love, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:27:47 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Bell peppers, a stupid question, njc I think black olives taste different from green olives. To me, the green ones are one-dimensional, just a salt flavor, while the black ones are more complex, like walnuts. So my question is this: Do all bell pepper taste alike? Red, green, and yellow all have the same texture and slightly citrus flavor, right? Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:47:38 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Minnelli at the Outgames - now Cocker Content -- njc Lori wrote: He never really could sing - --I find him to be a very good singer, very passionate, and some of his music is very moving. The entire album 'I Can Stand A Little Rain' is absolutely tremendous. His take of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is too moving for words. Bill Withers had a huge hit with 'ain't no sunshine' and I always liked it very much but Cocker's version blows it out of the water. Very big talent. Lucky to have heard him. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:39:18 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: ABC Primetime - Colors - Synestheisa (NJC) Ah!!! Perfect Smurf! Perfect! Sherelle Smurf wrote: > > > >--- Sherelle said: > > > That's no one's fault because how can a song > > be green? > > >Well, Sherelle, I think we can all agree that a song >can be a little green. > >XO, > >--Smurf, hoping I get this response posted before >Catherine beats me to it . . . > > >. >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:00:13 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Off-Topic I am interested in communicating offlist with anyone who has knowledge of the Seattle/Everett area of Washington State. Anyone who is willing to exchange mail with me please contact me off the list at Siquomb@Comcast.net Thanks for the bandwidth. Thanks for the Bandwidth. Cassy ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #294 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------