From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #222 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, June 11 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 222 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Exciting News!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Exciting News!! [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: The "Joni Standard" ["Garret" ] Good news njc ["Garret" ] Re: Exciting News!! NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Shawn Colvin's next album - These 4 Walls (SJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Originality in Music!! NJC [Bob Muller ] Kenny Werner digs Joni [Joseph Palis ] Re: Good news njc ["Cassy" ] Re: Originality in Music!! NJC ["ron" ] Re: Joni Standard [Bobsart48@aol.com] Exciting News! [Nancie Post ] Re: Exciting News!! [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: njc, more on marriage and goofy politicians [Catherine McKay ] Re: Good news njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Originality in Music [Monafitz@aol.com] Re: Good news njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: njc, goofy politicians ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: njc, more on marriage, then peace ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Exciting News!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni Standard [Nuriel Tobias ] ELLIS - njc ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: The Starry Night [Nuriel Tobias ] njc, Neil Young Alert, then some oversharing ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Joni Standard ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Good news njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 23:16:22 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Exciting News!! I wrote: > Occasionally some people even do an original song BETTER than Joni did it in the first place. The word "original" doesn't belong in that sentence. Lori, policing my own English, albeit belatedly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 02:52:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Exciting News!! Lori Fye wrote: "Occasionally some people even do a song BETTER than Joni did it in the first place." I used to know a girl from my high school who actually thought that her reflection in the mirror looked better than she did and the only thing i can think of that some people do BETTER than Joni did in the first place is divorcing for the third time. Sometimes i wish my name was also Hell so i could freeze over:) Nuri Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:34:18 +0100 (BST) From: "Garret" Subject: Re: The "Joni Standard" Wow BOb, you put a lot of thought into this one. It has given me a lot to think about over a nice cup of tea. I do enjoy reading these exchanges on list more than the price of oil or politics. I can get that anywhere else, where else can i read about the (perceived) role of gender in modern popular music?? >You see Joni as a standard defining art. Those that do not > aspire > to the above are not aspiring to art. I agree. The question is - is > aspiration > and originality enough ? Some might say yes; I think not. You want to > paint > Van Gogh's - well, that will take a lot of things lining up; talent, > creativity, inspiration, hard knocks, harder work and determination, to > produce that > which is excellent, brilliant or ultimately great. And much more of which > I > have no understanding, I'm sure. Just let me add that execution of the [artistic] idea is critical to sell records, and it is really what appeals to many of us. Billy Corgan once said (something like) that you could come up with the best piece of music, most wonderful lyrics, a piece of musical genius but if it is not well put together then you really don't have anything. He went on to talk about the importance of tune and melody and harmony and all of these other things that i am sure i do not define adequately, so much so that they overlap in my mind. So, yes, ok, art *is* about great ideas and aspiring to originality (ref; Yoko Ono, Cough Piece, hehe;-) and also great execution in my opinion. How often have you walked around the Tate Modern or some other and felt that the idea behind the art was amazing but it really just looks a bit silly when made manifest? HOw often do you see some technically wonderful piece of art in a museum but you feel the idea behind it is a bit thin or, much worse in my opinion, tacked on afterwards? Much popular music gives us great execution without a great idea (good vocals, catchy tune, slick production). It is probably teh case that some artists give us great ideas without great execution (i cannot give examples of this immediately.... i guess this is when you recognise something great but you just don't like it, eh, hi there Aimee Mann and Carly Simon). This is all thoroughly subjective - but of course that is the point, isn't it? The ability to tie great lyrics to innovative music is Joni's talent. It is not the most common talent. This is why she is not a poet in the sense that Gerard Manley Hopkins was a poet. Her words and her music work in concert to create a coherent whole. perhaps these are just my thoughts, but sometimes her words work better in song than when considered 'cold' if you know what i mean. It often relates to the delivery of the vocal in relation to the often unexpected turn of the music. I think this is why we all find so much in Joni's songs - it is not a case of listening and hhaving a straightforward understanding of what she is 'trying to say to us'. IN short Bob, i think i am agreeing with you:-) I have been enjoying this thread/these threads this week so keep it up guys. GARRET NP- Whitney, I Will Always Love You (well, definitely great execution in many many ways and extremely enjoyable and so therefore justifies itself but the idea, mmmmm....) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:43:21 +0100 (BST) From: "Garret" Subject: Good news njc I've been offered a little place on a doctoral programme that i have been building up to for as long as i can remember! It has been a stressful six months and most of my spare time has been spent gearing up to application and two rounds of interviews and written assessments etc etc but it paid off. From october i will be doing the clinical psychology doctorate here in DUblin. I really am surprised that they offered me a place. I guess i could say i'm overwhelmed. I had already begun preparing my applications for next year (and was, in some ways, hoping to end up back in London but am absolutely thrilled to offered a place here and will accept it of course) when i got their letter offering me a place. I'm nervous and a bit scared - - this will be the most difficult thing i will ever have done. My plan is to continue working as i am for the summer. Then take a couple of weeks to get myself together just before the training programme starts. We have a week in Berlin booked at the end of september so that is good timing too. I feel restless and totally excited (the Grumpy Old Women dislike the use of 'totally' by us young people, so i will totally make sure that i totally don't use that all of the time. Totally. That show is gas;-) GARRET (wouldn't you know it.... you work hard all week long, the hottest week of the year and probably hotter than any week last year and then the bloody sun decides to hide on a saturday morning *and* you went and paid a small fortune yesterday for wild strawberries so you could make ice cream to enjoy sitting in the garden with an Iris Murdoch novel!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:46:39 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Exciting News!! NJC nurielt@yahoo.com writes: > I used to know a girl from my high school who actually thought that her > reflection in the mirror looked better than she did > The reflection did actually look better than she did, Nuri, because the girl projected idealized attributes onto the mirror image that she craved like crazy in her subconscious. I bet there were times when the mirror image looked much 'worse' than she actually did, too. But that's not something she'd share even with herself. Her real self, I mean. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:22:37 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Shawn Colvin's next album - These 4 Walls (SJC) There seems to be a good buzz developing for Shawn Colvin's next album - due out in September. She herself says it's the best record she's ever made and in a recent post on her website forum at www.shawncolvin.com she writes: > We are done! It took a little less than a year to make. > I am so so proud of this work. > It will be called "These 4 Walls". John [Leventhal] has > done a beautiful job. I'm so happy. And relieved. The > artwork is kooky, of course, done by a woman named > Maggie Taylor. [ www.maggietaylor.com ] Apparently the new album also has Patty Griffin, Marc Cohn and Teddy Thompson (son of Richard Thompson) singing on it. She's also just announced more good news for us Brits - the probability of a UK tour in September! Whilst I've seen her several times since, the first time was at the Jazz Cafe in London - with Larry Klein on bass and Stueart Smith (now with The Eagles) on guitar, in 1994. It was absolutely brilliant - a Sony showcase promoting her then new album 'Fat City' which she'd not long recorded in Joni's home studio (The Kiva). On her site there's a really lovely photo of Joni - taken (I like to think) mid-handclap on the recording of 'Object of My Affection' - click 'photos' at www.shawncolvin.com and then choose 'Shawn's Personal Photos - Gallery 1' - and click next twice. All the very best to everyone PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 08:15:45 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Gay Men In Joni's Lyrics now njc Catherine wrote: Doesn't Paz just do shoes? What would that make him? A shoe queen? Hi Catherine, Paz is a very attractive lesbian who likes to go barefoot. He told me he's a lesbian; the rest is my appraisal from when I saw him at the Jonifest in 2004. I'll never forget that walk and those feet. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 08:38:53 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: njc, more on marriage As a Pennsylvanian, I'm so embarrassed that Rick Santorum is my senator. Did anyone see the good old moralist William Bennett on the Daily Show last week trying to spout the same crap about gay marriage? He did raise the polygamy issue. Jon Stewart went after him pretty aggressively. Click on: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml And scroll down to William J. Bennett At 10:28 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote: >Really now, where would they end? And what about the polygamists? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Originality in Music!! NJC > The point you missed is that Hendrix Clapton, J > Page, Zappa, Santana and P Metheny were doing > this in the late 60's and early 70's, 40 years > ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I was trying to do was to put some of today's better players in the context you understand. Do you actually think that the players you listed here INVENTED the stuff they did? One could argue that it was an outgrowth of the 12-bar guitar blues format that Chuck Berry, Howling Wolf, Albert King, etc were doing decades prior to them, and that (non-guitarists) Louis Armstrong and King Oliver (among countless others) did before them. They had their inspirations, just as players like Mayer and White (among countless others) do today. > people came up with everything new and > different you could do with a Guitar, there is > nothing new left to do, can you argue with me > on this ????????, I really don't want to, because it appears that your mind is so closed on the subject that you're not willing to listen to anything I have to say. I'll only say that I believe it's naive to think that nothing new can ever be done with a guitar - the possibilities of music seem endless to me, and as we explode with new ideas in technology, I just refuse to think that innovation is totally gone. so as good as John Mayer is, > he is only copying what was done 40 years ago, > can you see my point, where is the Originality > in Music these days????. Mostly NOT in the rock arena - I hear more originality in the hip-hop world, with artists like The Beastie Boys, Beck, and The Roots melding sampled and found music and overlaying jazz and rock riffs around it. And I'm not saying I know it all - unfortunately I don't have the resources to explore music in the depth that I'd like. Thanks for your points. Bob NP: Canned Heat, "On The Road Again" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:43:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Kenny Werner digs Joni Hi JoniAmigos ~ Some of you jazz pianist aficionados may know Kenny Werner's excellent work as well as piano accompaniments to Betty Buckley. I don't know if this was discussed or mentioned before here in the list but he composed a song called "One For Joni" which was said to be inspired by "Court and Spark". Anyone heard it yet? Here's the link to that article. It was also mentioned in slightly different wordings in this month's issue of Downbeat. http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=20900 Finally, when asked to rank his CD picks, Werner listed Joni's "Blue" first followed by Vladimir Horowitz's legendary "Horowitz in Moscow", and Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane's collaboration in third place. maybe our NYC Listers can catch Werner in performance and make a report of his Joni-oriented tunes? Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Nicola Hitchcock "Because" P.S. I watched "A Prairie Home Companion" yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. Altman at his vintage best, IMHO (althoug nowhere as brilliant as "The Player" and "Thieves Like Us"). En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Mail vous offre la meilleure protection possible contre les messages non sollicitis http://mail.yahoo.fr Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:47:33 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Good news njc From: "Garret" <<< It has been a stressful six months and most of my spare time has been spent gearing up to application and two rounds of interviews and written assessments etc etc but it paid off. From october i will be doing the clinical psychology doctorate here in DUblin. the bloody sun decides to hide on a saturday morning *and* you went and paid a small fortune yesterday for wild strawberries so you could make ice cream to enjoy sitting in the garden with an Iris Murdoch novel!) >>> Garret, CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm very proud of your accomplishment and glad you shared your news with us all. I wish you well in your studies and prosperity in your chosen career when it's all said and done. Do you want to practice Psychology when you've earned your doctorate? My niece just graduated with her bachelors in science from McGill University in Montreal and is currently studying to take her MCAT (Medical College Admission Test), she had a severe illness when she was a child and her experiences with medical professionals at that time has steered her toward a career in pediatric medicine. Regarding the weather and strawberries, I do sympathize... I love to do home improvements (when I can afford them) and, with a friend in tow, recently undertook reroofing my garage (it had to be done it was leaking). I kept an eye on the weather reports so that we could begin when there were a few nice days strung together. We stripped the old shingles and bagged them to take them to the dump, discovered that whoever did the shingles the last time just laid shingle over wood, no paper, drip-edge or anything. In Michigan, this past Memorial Day we tied a record for the hottest Memorial Day on record and where was I? Lying on a beach, soaking up the sun somewhere? Hell no, I was up on the roof sweating myself to death in 93 degree weather. It took a day and a half to drip-edge, paper and shingle one half of the roof and then the heavens opened and it didn't stop raining for three days. Fortunately, I had purchased a tarp for just this situation. We finally finished the second half a few days ago. Now we have lovely low 70s with a slight breeze and a cloud or two and I am wishing we'd waited... oh well, at least it's done. Next... the house roof. I am planning strawberry shortcake after supper this evening in your honour, Garret. Warmly, Cassy NP: Riding With The King - Eric Clapton & B.B. King (I wish there were software which would just add the NP tag for me) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:11:04 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Originality in Music!! NJC >>>>somebody bemoaned the lack of originality in music & here i am bemoaning the fact that i just cant keep up with all the great music out there :-) i actually think theres more happening now than ever before. new technologies, new recording, new distribution. if you really want to find the music instead of just complaining about it go invest some time nosing around sites like cdbaby, or the ectophiles guide to good music http://ectoguide.org/ or join a list like the ectophile list http://www.smoe.org/ecto/ectophilia/ectophilia.html where you'll find so many good new artists discussed that your head will spin :-) >> people came up with everything new and different you could do with a >> Guitar, there is nothing new left to do, can you argue with me on this >> ????????, not gonna argue - just say flat out youre wrong. take a listen to people like phil keaggy (okay - so he's been around for ages - but hes still innovating with an acoustic & boxes of electronics), & dan patlansky (local guy here) is starting to abuse his fender in amazing ways. (he does a instrumental version of purplehaze that does for the song what jimi did for all along the watchtower) & in other areas - americana is exploding - blending country, blues, folk, jazz into one amazing big melting pot.then theres all the electronica & hip hop & stuff - who knows whats going on out there? & how about all the blending of genres & traditions. bands like afro celtic sound connection blending african & celtic music to great effect. ron np - russ barenburg - halloween rehearsal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:18:55 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Standard Mingus replied "Two Grey Rooms" and "The Beat of Black Wings" to my post "It is true that Joni is not in the perfect position to write a song that is distinctly male in its perspective - though I would love to listen to her best effort in that direction." Yes ! Good examples. Although the lyric to Two Grey Rooms is not completely apparent as being from a male perspective (I realize that we know it is from Joni's explanation of the inspiration source). Another song, capturing a different slice of life from a male perspective, is The Arrangement. When I introduced my father to Joni's LOTC 35 years ago, that was the song he immediately spotted as being relevant to him. I confess its relevance ex post facto to my own life. Any more ? Too bad - too few. See what I meant, even though my memory was weak ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:34:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancie Post Subject: Exciting News! Thanks for the tip Bob! This is Tucker coming out of de-lurkation. I love those 3 unreleased songs and this gal does a great job of singing them! I've ordered it just in time to have it for my cross-country drive from New Mexico to Nova Scotia for the summer! I'll be leaving as soon as the CD arrives! Thanks so much! Tucker Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:19:08 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Exciting News!! Wonderful news! Thanks Bob for the thumbs up ;~)I listened to most of the tracks...phenominal!!!! Love Come to the Sunshine....Kudos to Henning, Christina and the rest of the band. What's really kewl is that Joni Approves:~) Congrats, I am so excited for you!!! Rosie in NJ NP: Marah, City of Dreams I saw then live at the Pony last night Bob, and wasn't disappointed ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc, more on marriage and goofy politicians - --- Deb Messling wrote: > As a Pennsylvanian, I'm so embarrassed that Rick > Santorum is my senator. > I guess he's right up there with John Hostettler, who said that Canada "hosts an abundance of terrorists and as many as 50 terrorist organizations" and made reference to "South Toronto" as an "enclave for radical discussion" (i.e. of the terrorist variety.) There is no such thing as "South Toronto." Way to go, Mr Hostettler, you diplomat, you! http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/09062006/6/n-canada-canada-slams-ignorant-comments-security.html Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:24:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Originality in Music!! NJC - --- ron wrote: > if you really want to find the music instead of just > complaining about it go > invest some time nosing around sites like cdbaby, or > the ectophiles guide to > good music http://ectoguide.org/ > > or join a list like the ectophile list > http://www.smoe.org/ecto/ectophilia/ectophilia.html > where you'll find so > many good new artists discussed that your head will > spin :-) > I stumbled across that site when I was looking for info on somebody (can't remember who at the moment). If you're trying to overcome a music addiction, don't go there. ;-) One thing leads to another and, the next thing you know, you're scooping up more stuff to add to your collection. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:32:12 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Good news njc That's wonderful news Garret! Congrats, and don't be nervous or scared, I'm sure you'll do just fine..... rosie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:35:41 EDT From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re: Originality in Music In a message dated 6/9/2006 8:36:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, andeemac2005@comcast.net writes: everything new and different you could do with a Guitar, there is nothing new left to do, can you argue with me on this ????????, Yes, and no. Sure you can argue that there is nothing new under the sun but have you listened to Kaki King? While I would agree that playing up the neck is not new, she certainly has been innovative with it lately. Has Joni, Mayer etc. ever played a tune up the neck the way Kaki King does? It is awesome to see and hear. For those of you in the Northampton Mass, area she will be at the Ironhorse in a few weeks. Check it out. Cheers, Mona Mona A. Fitzgerald, JD Windsor, CT 06095 USA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Good news njc - --- Garret wrote: > I've been offered a little place on a doctoral > programme that i have been > building up to for as long as i can remember! > Congratulations, Garret! I am totally pleased for you, and your parents must be totally proud of you! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:04:15 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, goofy politicians Catherine wrote: > >I guess he's right up there with John Hostettler, who >said that Canada "hosts an abundance of terrorists and >as many as 50 terrorist organizations" and made >reference to "South Toronto" as an "enclave for >radical discussion" (i.e. of the terrorist variety.) >There is no such thing as "South Toronto." > >Way to go, Mr Hostettler, you diplomat, you! > >http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/09062006/6/n-canada-canada-slams-ignorant-comments-security.html > >Catherine >Toronto There's goofy and ignorant and uninformed -- and then there's downright "Liars, Liars, Pants on Fire!" From non-existent "South Toronto" to Baghdad and Istanbul, they seem to have problems with geography and "you know...." From a friend in CA: "Oh by the way, remember that story I told you about a couple of months ago -- the one about the Republican House candidate (Howard Kaloogian) that put some pics of peaceful, bucolic, downtown Baghdad on his web site that turned out to be downtown Istanbul?" I guess he did that to show how well the war is going and the "progress" we have made. How DARE he twist and manipulate reality and LIE to people when the war drags on and people (including little children) are killed and maimed every day. As Joni is my witness, I simply cannot fathom these people. Despicable madmen. I can't wait til Joni's birthday this year -- it's election day in the U.S. I hope that we will then be celebrating getting some of these warmongering liars out of our government. I want to wreck my stockings in some jukebox dive that night! Do you see -- do you see -- do you see -- how they hurt us, babies? Love, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:40:22 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, more on marriage, then peace Deb shared: > >Did anyone see the good old moralist William Bennett on the Daily Show last >week trying to spout the same crap about gay marriage? He did raise the >polygamy issue. Jon Stewart went after him pretty aggressively. > >Click on: > >http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml > >And scroll down to William J. Bennett > Thanks, Deb! That was great! And now I can catch other shows I missed. Such wonderful education you get here on the jmdl! While I'm writing, let me say what a pleasure it was to see your name on the "Global Call for Peace" at: http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/codepink/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=185&t=WSNTW2.dwt Kate Bennett, you too. Like you said: "fwiw" (first time I've seen that one, but life is for learning, of course!)...it may not do any concrete good, but it is comforting to see so many names from all over the world signing on. Friends in spirit. Strength through unity. Sisterhood (and brotherhood) is powerful. You know what I mean. Show 'em we won't expire. (Even if it puts us all on the "no fly" list.) Here is what the appeal states: "Women's Call for Peace: An Urgent Appeal We, the women of the United States, Iraq and women worldwide, have had enough of the senseless war in Iraq and the cruel attacks on civilians around the world. We've buried too many of our loved ones. We've seen too many lives crippled forever by physical and mental wounds. We've watched in horror as our precious resources are poured into war while our families' basic needs of food, shelter, education and healthcare go unmet. We've had enough of living in constant fear of violence and seeing the growing cancer of hatred and intolerance seep into our homes and communities. This is not the world we want for ourselves or our children. With fire in our bellies and love in our hearts, we women are rising up - across borders - - to unite and demand an end to the bloodshed and the destruction. We have seen how the foreign occupation of Iraq has fueled an armed movement against it, perpetuating an endless cycle of violence. We are convinced that it is time to shift from a military model to a conflict-resolution model that includes the following elements: - - The withdrawal of all foreign troops and foreign fighters from Iraq; - - Negotiations to reincorporate disenfranchised Iraqis into all aspects of Iraqi society; - - The full representation of women in the peacemaking process and a commitment to women's full equality in the post-war Iraq; - - A commitment to discard plans for any foreign bases in Iraq; - - Iraqi control of its oil and other resources; - - The nullification of privatization and deregulation laws imposed under occupation, allowing Iraqis to shape the trajectory of the post-war economy; - - A massive reconstruction effort that prioritizes Iraqi contractors, and draws upon financial resources of the countries responsible for the invasion and occupation of Iraq; - - Consideration of a temporary international peacekeeping force that is truly multilateral and is not composed of any troops from countries that participated in the occupation. To move this peace process forward, we are creating a massive movement of women - crossing generations, races, ethnicities, religions, borders and political persuasions. Together, we will pressure our governments, the United Nations, the Arab League, Nobel Peace Prize winners, religious leaders and others in the international community to step forward to help negotiate a political settlement. And in this era of divisive fundamentalisms, we call upon world leaders to join us in spreading the fundamental values of love for the human family and for our precious planet." Something to strive for. Love, Patti P. P.S. I scrolled through the list of names for a while, looking for Joni's, but the list is too long. I'll bet eighteen bucks that she'd sign, though! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 17:43:01 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Standard In a message dated 6/10/06 12:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobsart48 writes: > Any more ? Too bad - too few. See what I meant, even though my memory was > weak ? > > Bobsart > > I guess her first would be "Pirate of Penance" also on "Mingus", "A Chair In The Sky." As for "Two Grey Rooms', she did find the story of the gay Aristocrat watching down on his unrequited lover some 30 years on. There has always been a feeling that she was fantasizing herself finding her daughter secretly and how she would look down and see her pass by "I loved you 30 years ago," because about the time she put the words to "Speechless" killuren would have been coming up on 30 soon. Just letting my head wander before the hurricane hits. Peace Mingus By the way isn't that Anne Coulter a C%&T! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:46:08 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Originality in Music!! Hi folks. Just waking up out of a deep, dark lurkdom. So deep and dark, I don't recognise a lot of the names here now LOL! Anyway, I wanted to chime in on this thread. I think that in the 60s and 70s, there was an aweful lot more scope for originality than now. The whole rock thing, and coupling it up with blues, jazz and classical music gave rise to a lot of original music. It's a fact that most genres are pretty well explored by now. I don't think that this in itself, means that an artist can't be original though. A big problem now is the role of the record companies, who in order to break a new artist, have to spend so much money on publicity to get them noticed, that they can't afford to have a 'product' that won't appeal to millions of people. The other side of that coin is that people tend to be sheep. Most of them have to be told what to wear, what to think and what to buy. (Present company is excepted, of course!) The combination means that most people will never be exposed to anything other than the most commercial of music styles. Here in the UK, pop music seems to pretty much begin and end with 'hip-hop', with a dull foray into what passes for punk. If you want to hear original music these days, you have to go looking for it at small live music clubs where unsigned acts play. Most of them will remain unsigned for the reasons given above, but believe me there is serious talent out there. As to whether these people have a way of making a living at music, that's a very hard question to answer. I could go on, but I'll cap it for now ;0) Martin. In London. > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 00:20:14 +0000 > From: andeemac2005@comcast.net > Subject: Originality in Music!! > > Somebody said "I'll pit John Mayer and Jack White against the 70's guitar > gods any day." > > The point you missed is that Hendrix Clapton, J Page, Zappa, Santana and P > Metheny were doing this in the late 60's and early 70's, 40 years > ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and in my opinion these people came up with everything > new and different you could do with a Guitar, there is nothing new left to > do, can you argue with me on this ????????, so as good as John Mayer is, > he is only copying what was done 40 years ago, can you see my point, where > is the Originality in Music these days????. > Its just not good enough to say "Oh my music is as good as the Beatles" > back then all these artists were coming out with diverse Original Ideas, I > mean like King Crimson ( In the Court of the Crimson King) was back then > a totally new concept. that amazed me when i heard it for the first time, > and that song is still fresh today. If you just take P Metheny and Jimmy > Hendrix can you say there is anything new and different that can be > played on a guitar that those two havent covered, really???. > And Im sorry there isnt many new Melodic Songs being written by artists of > this Century, apart from Tori Amos that stay in the memory, or you can > sing or hum yourself, Returning to the Original thread, Joni Mitchells > songs TOWER over all but a handfull of other artists songs in terms of > Execution, Production, Feeling of the rendition of the Lyrics and Melody, > and the partnership of her and Jaco was made in Heaven. > American Idol was mentioned, the one thing about this show is the singers > CAN sing well live, there is no bucking the art, like a lot of singers do > today on Albums, with Digital Voice enhancers in the Studio, and when they > sing live there horrible. > I think to a certain extent we live in a post Prince and G Micheal world, > where the Big labels are wary of signing Artists that can Sing well, > Write there own songs, Produce themselfs in the Studio, and really dont > need the label to survive. No they want Artists they can use for 3 years > then toss aside like Creed where are they now???? Prince and G > Micheal dared to say to the label, " The art in my Music is 100 percent > ME, I can write new songs for any label and be just as good," and in > Princes case he is right isnt he after hearing his new CD last month. > Time will be the adudicater, but I dont see many new artists and Bands > around today being around in 2010 > Originality is the Key. you know stylize your music like no other artist > has done before. its not good enough just to Copy. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:47:54 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Exciting News!! > What's really kewl is that Joni Approves:~) Thanks for reminding us of this, Rose. I think that point has somehow been missed. And it's right there on the website for the world to notice. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni Standard Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: "Mingus replied "Two Grey Rooms" and "The Beat of Black Wings" to my post "It is true that Joni is not in the perfect position to write a song that is distinctly male in its perspective - though I would love to listen to her best effort in that direction." Yes ! Good examples. . Any more?" Hi Bob and Mingus I can think of some other songs that reflect some male perspective if only for the fact that they include lyrics "by" the man: The Priest - He said, "You wouldn't like it here No, it's no place you should share The roof is ripped with hurricanes And the room is always bare I need the wind and I seek the cold" The Last Time I Saw Richard - "he told me: "all romantics meet the same fate someday Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe You laugh he said you think you're immune Go look at your eyes they're full of moon You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you All those pretty lies pretty lies When you gonna realise they're only pretty lies Only pretty lies just pretty lies" A Bird That Whistles - "Last time I saw that man He hung down his head and cried: Corrina Corrina Do you have to go Corrina Corrina Tell me why do you have to go Just made me come to love you girl Now you pack your things and go Leave me this bird that whistles Leave me this bird that sings I got a bird that whistles I got a bird that's singin' If I don't have you darlin' Birds don't mean nothin'" (btw, Isn't Corrina Corrina a traditional love song that usualy men used to sing? You should now that better than me:) Slouching Toward Bethlehem - Worth mentioning cause it was originaly written by a man, and though Joni "arranged" some of the original poet lyrics, most of his original images remained the same, so i'd say it's somewhere between him and her. The Sire of Sorrow - Basicaly (as i proved in a post years ago) most, if not all, of the lyrics are a translation to the original Hebrew (Biblical) words of Job's "little chats" with God. Though often considered as Joni's "own" suffering, it's still a man's song, and the fact that Joni hasn't changed the original Biblical "This vein man wishes to seem wise" and "man born of asses" lines says a lot. Love Puts on a New Face - Again, this song is divided between "his" point of view and "hers". The Crazy Cries of Love - If only for the fact that it was Donald Freed's poem, though Joni "helped" it a bit, i'd say it's started as his point of view about romance. One song that always confuses me, regarding this issue, is Woodstock. I often don't know where "his" (the child of God) lyrics end and where Joni's-self is taking place again. Not too sure which live show it was, (MOA? I'm really not sure) but in that live recording Joni adds the words "he said" before the "we are stardust" chorus, making it seem as if he was the one that said it to her. There are several other songs that include a man's "quate", but i thought the male's "lines" were too short to be really considered as male's point of view so i didn't mention them here. But i shell at least mention the brief general's speach from No Apologies, for it's not only male'ish but very shovenistic. Nuri Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 17:48:55 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: ELLIS - njc Went to a house concert in Chicago last night to see ELLIS. If you haven't heard her stuff check it out here: http://www.ellis-music.com/music/ You can get a free download of her entire song Grand Exit (Annette's Song) about her friend who died in April of cancer. ELLIS is this mix of whimsy and soul, wrapped up in a package of irony and acoustic. She reminds me in a way of Jonatha, but w/ only guitar as backdrop. It was a really fun night of music and laughter. ELLIS is a joy to watch as every chord is played with passion. Please go and check out her site and music. It is worth the listen. Suze - -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:44:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: The Starry Night Since the lyric "He'd piss in their fireplace" was mentioned on one version of this thread, i'd like to say that though Turbulent Indigo is mainly a song about Van Gogh, i think that this lyric, however, refers to another painter who was also considered a bit mad (Joni mentions him and his work as an influence to her early abstract paintings) - Pollock. In the book "Pollock - An Americam Saga" (and i also think it features in the movie "Pollock" with Ed Harris), a famous incident that since then has become sort of a sybmbol to an artist's frustation, deals with Pollock pissing in the fireplace at a party at Guggenheim's townhouse during a fancy cocktail event. I think it's him that she's refering to in the pissing lyric. Nuri Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:17:32 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Neil Young Alert, then some oversharing Dear Joniamigos: According to the TV listings in my newspaper, Neil Young is supposed to be on Saturday Night Live tonight -- a repeat from December. Just thought I'd let y'all know, as I take a much-needed break from writing out tons of "Thank you for your condolences over the death of my Dad" cards. Ouch. I'm too raw. And it's comin' on Fathers' Day.... I thank all of you too, once again, who wrote (or even just thought) such compassionate and comforting messages. With a gentle reminder to "shower the people you love with love", Patti P. NPIMH, one of my Dad's favorite songs, the lyrics of which I printed in the thank you cards (would I *ever* write anything without quoting lyrics? ): When Irish Eyes Are Smiling words and music Chauncey Olcott & George Graff, Jr. There's a tear in your eye, And I'm wondering why, For it never should be there at all. With such pow'r in your smile, Sure a stone you'd beguile, So there's never a teardrop should fall. When your sweet lilting laughter's Like some fairy song, And your eyes twinkle bright as can be; You should laugh all the while And all other times smile, And now, smile a smile for me. When Irish eyes are smiling, Sure, 'tis like the morn in Spring. In the lilt of Irish laughter You can hear the angels sing. When Irish hearts are happy, All the world seems bright and gay. And when Irish eyes are smiling, Sure, they steal your heart away. For your smile is a part Of the love in your heart, And it makes even sunshine more bright. Like the linnet's sweet song, Crooning all the day long, Comes your laughter and light. For the springtime of life Is the sweetest of all There is ne'er a real care or regret; And while springtime is ours Throughout all of youth's hours, Let us smile each chance we get. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:50:03 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: No artist compares to Joni, year 2006, njc Well maybe I just have to get some of that music. . cause, I seem to be holding on to the 60's and 70 's music with some 50's and maybe 40's. . and thinking to myself. . . there's nothing like the music of these times. . nothing has compared . . . to me Marianne Bob Muller writes: I will agree however that there is just as much great music coming out today as ever...I'll pit John Mayer and Jack White against the 70's guitar gods any day. Had Built To Spill's 2006 release "You In Reverse" come out in 1974, boomers would be loving it today and belly-aching that "they don't make 'em like that anymore". Likewise, Gomez' "How We Operate" is a phenomenal Brit-Pop album, it fits in nicely with Rubber Soul & Revolver. Really. The good old days are happenin' right now. Bob _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:57:17 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: NJC Gay Men In Joni's Lyrics,now gay jmdler's Mark writes: >What is gay? Jimmy writes: >>a large number of jmdler's :~) yeah, and I wonder why. interesting. . . .huh? _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:03:57 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Exciting News From: Lori >I'm not the type who sits enthralled by every performance at Jonifest. . . I am and I was _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 19:39:25 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni Standard - ----- Original Message ----- From: > As for "Two Grey Rooms', ..... There has always been a > feeling that she was fantasizing herself finding her daughter secretly and > how she > would look down and see her pass by "I loved you 30 years ago," because > about > the time she put the words to "Speechless" killuren would have been coming > up > on 30 soon. Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets this vibe from 'Two Grey Rooms'. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 23:59:52 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Good news njc > ...and your parents must be totally proud of you! > Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a while, Catherine! And congratulations, Garret. I know you'll be a great one. Some lucky folks out there, whoever gets to talk to you. Break a leg! - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #222 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------