From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #215 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 6 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 215 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: No Joni ["Garret" ] pets at full moon, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: No Joni ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] some interesting listening njc ["ron" ] FW: NYTimes.com: Antonioni's Nothingness and Beauty ["anon anon" ] 28th amendment njc ["gene" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:12:35 +0100 (BST) From: "Garret" Subject: re: No Joni I know what you mean guys. I often feel entirely misled when someone is supposed to sound "like Joni". I have given up even respecting that description (in fact, it can be insulting to both Joni and the songwriter being compared). I think that Joni has become the standard against which other (female) singer-songwriters are compared (have you ever seen a male called "the next Joni Mitchell" in a music publication?). SOmetimes this lets us know that the critic does not know Joni and her music at all and the reference is an empty one in an attempt to look well versed (and, in fairness, will suffice for a mainstream audience who do don't know Joni as well as we do). Sometimes, i guess, this reference should be interpreted as "in the tradition of Joni". This would make sense for a lot of artists who may have some things in common with JOni (maybe it's "confessional" lyrics, unique tunings, usually a woman with a guitar etc) and who may claim to be influenced by JOni, but the problem, as you know, is that Joni is more than Blue, is better than most men with guitars, and, for us, any overly reductive statement about JOni's talent will fail to please us, the righteous crowd. However, my interpretation of "modern-day Joni's" would not be any of the above. To me, a modern-day Joni does not necessarily have to sound anything like Joni, does not have to be influenced by Joni, look like Joni, smell like Joni;-) For me, it's someone who pushes the proverbial musical envelope. It's someone who is writing original music that goes against the grain, that introduces something new, is both accessable and a challenge, and, most of all, follows a unique path. For me, this is when popular songwriting becomes art. Heck, you don't even have to like it to recognise it. I could mention your Tom Waits and Patti SMith and Bruce Springsteen type people but they aren't always considered modern (why?? do not they still produce great music??). I would point to Beck, Bjork, maybe Fiona Apple, Rufus Wainwright (and others that i just can't think of on a sunny monday) as artists forging unique musical paths that may little resemble Joni, but deserve to be recognsied for their contributions. Maybe the comparisons with Joni are a bit thin on the ground, but i think it is more a conceptual likeness than a musical likeness. Eh, if you know what i mean;-) GARRET NP- Janet and Missy and Carly, Son of Gun Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:08:06 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: No Joni " Bo ..writes. For me there are no modern-day Joni's. There are talented musicians...lyrics that reflect thought provoking reactions....but I haven't EVER come across ANYONE or could even be slightly compared to Joni. I do, however, hear Joni's influence. But "like Joni"...NEVER. I'm with you on that Bo! I have always felt that way that no one compares to Joni.,and wrote that to Smurf awhile back. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:54:07 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: pets at full moon, njc Em, I emailed full moon asking them if pets are permitted and they said no. Full Moon writes: >Hi Marianne, >No, I'm sorry, we do not allow pets. >Kind Regards, >Front Desk _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:01:58 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: No Joni Hi Garrett Well put. Often my friends will come up to me (though even less now, after the reaction they get) to say,' Oh you'll like this girl, she's like Joni Mitchell!' Really? Well, no, she just has a high warble, plays guitar and piano and is quite depressed sounding. There the comparison ends. No bending of notes, no idiosyncratic melody, no writing in 2 keys, no jazz inflection, no irregular tunings, no edge, no humour, no eclectic style, no good observations, no revelations and basically no maturity by the age of 19. A tall order, no? For me there are a few people who have slipped through the net onto my cd shelf apart from the 'classic' artists (Bob Dylan, Rickie Lee Jones, Nick Drake, Billie Holliday). Aimee Mann, Rufus Wainwright, Jeff Buckley. Very few. I guess these 3 have very distictive voices. Their writing is open and edgy, specific and universal. Rufus for his sense of humour and arrangements, Aimee for her humour and her wry observations, Jeff because he promised so much. You could argue that Rufus an Aimee are as nasal as each other and not good vocalists but it's what they do with the voice is what's cool about them. I can'tsay that they're exactly pushing the envelope, musically, but I wouldn't necessarily know what that means. I know they're not playing with tins cans and a burnt-out truck onstage as a musical instrument like Tom Waits might but that's not necessarily pushing the envelope either, it's just his way. Which is cool and why he's on my shelf. Anyway Will be in touch about the growing list of vague Suzannahs that get compared to our Joan. Much Joni Jamie Zoob On 05/06/06, Garret wrote: > I know what you mean guys. I often feel entirely misled when someone is > supposed to sound "like Joni". I have given up even respecting that > description (in fact, it can be insulting to both Joni and the songwriter > being compared). I think that Joni has become the standard against which > other (female) singer-songwriters are compared (have you ever seen a male > called "the next Joni Mitchell" in a music publication?). SOmetimes this > lets us know that the critic does not know Joni and her music at all and > the reference is an empty one in an attempt to look well versed (and, in > fairness, will suffice for a mainstream audience who do don't know Joni as > well as we do). Sometimes, i guess, this reference should be interpreted > as "in the tradition of Joni". This would make sense for a lot of artists > who may have some things in common with JOni (maybe it's "confessional" > lyrics, unique tunings, usually a woman with a guitar etc) and who may > claim to be influenced by JOni, but the problem, as you know, is that > Joni is more than Blue, is better than most men with guitars, and, for us, > any overly reductive statement about JOni's talent will fail to please us, > the righteous crowd. > > However, my interpretation of "modern-day Joni's" would not be any of the > above. To me, a modern-day Joni does not necessarily have to sound > anything like Joni, does not have to be influenced by Joni, look like > Joni, smell like Joni;-) For me, it's someone who pushes the proverbial > musical envelope. It's someone who is writing original music that goes > against the grain, that introduces something new, is both accessable and a > challenge, and, most of all, follows a unique path. For me, this is when > popular songwriting becomes art. Heck, you don't even have to like it to > recognise it. I could mention your Tom Waits and Patti SMith and Bruce > Springsteen type people but they aren't always considered modern (why?? > do not they still produce great music??). I would point to Beck, Bjork, > maybe Fiona Apple, Rufus Wainwright (and others that i just can't think of > on a sunny monday) as artists forging unique musical paths that may little > resemble Joni, but deserve to be recognsied for their contributions. Maybe > the comparisons with Joni are a bit thin on the ground, but i think it is > more a conceptual likeness than a musical likeness. Eh, if you know what i > mean;-) > GARRET > > NP- Janet and Missy and Carly, Son of Gun > > > Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:08:06 EDT > From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com > Subject: No Joni > > " Bo ..writes. > For me there are no modern-day Joni's. There are talented > musicians...lyrics that reflect thought provoking reactions....but I > haven't EVER > come across > ANYONE or could even be slightly compared to Joni. I do, however, hear > Joni's > influence. But "like Joni"...NEVER. > > I'm with you on that Bo! > I have always felt that way that no one compares to Joni.,and wrote that to > Smurf awhile back. > > Peace > Mingus > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 and on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/jamiezoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:24:01 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: some interesting listening njc hi this link will take you to the village records samplers on jukebox alive, with some great music to listen to: http://www.mynewsletterbuilder.com//refer.php?s=24858373&u=693033 ron np: the pilgrim: chapter 33 - emmylou harris (from "the pilgrim: a clebration of kris kristoffersen") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:29:20 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: FW: NYTimes.com: Antonioni's Nothingness and Beauty >From: icnh@hotmail.com >Reply-To: icnh@hotmail.com >To: icnh@hotmail.com >Subject: NYTimes.com: Antonioni's Nothingness and Beauty >Date: 3 Jun 2006 09:05:43 -0700 > >This page was sent to you by: icnh@hotmail.com. > >Hi mom, thought you might find this interesting! > > >MOVIES | June 4, 2006 >Antonioni's Nothingness and Beauty >By STEPHEN HOLDEN >The Italian director Michelangelo Antonioni was the poetic, Existentialist >answer to the neo-realists. >http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/movies/04hold.html?ex=1149998400&en=278fa978474818ae&ei=5070&emc=eta1 > > > >----------------- Advertisement -------------------------- > >/--------- E-mail Sponsored by >Fox Searchlight Pictures ------------\ > >WATER  In theatres April 28th > >See the controversial film Time Magazine proclaims "A Triumph." Set in 1938 >Colonial India, against Mahatma Gandhi's rise to power, Water begins when >8-year-old Chuyia is widowed and sent to a home where Hindu widows must >live in penitence. Chuyia's feisty presence deeply affects the lives of >the other >residents, including a young widow, who falls for a Gandhian idealist. > >http://clk.atdmt.com/ORG/go/nwyrkfxs0040000009org/direct;at.orgfxs00000892/01/ > > > > > >----------------- Advertisement -------------------------- > >0 > > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >ABOUT THIS E-MAIL >This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This >Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to >help@nytimes.com. > >NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 > >Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:20:30 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: njc don't try this yourself Sometimes one comes upon something in reading court decisions that is just too good to be true - but it is. http://www.michbar.org/opinions/us_appeals/2006/060106/31937.pdf Man writes book on his life as a criminal, includes chapter on how to cash bad checks. His method as explained in book: meet a woman in AOL chat, mail checkes to her, have her deposit checks, then have her withdraw money a few days later, fly out to see her, take her shopping (buys most stuff for himself), and fly home with rest of money. Man puts his picture in book. Man sells book on his website and through Amazon. Man identies himself in the "about us" section of his website. Man then meets a woman in AOL chat, mails checkes to her, has her deposit checks, then has her withdraw money a few days later, flies out to see her, takes her shopping (buys most stuff for himself), and flies home with rest of money. Man then appeals conviction because court allowed his book to be introduced as evidence after defense claimed Man was duped by the woman. Court with a straight face denies appeal. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 13:23:19 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) What's next in BushWorld? The gas chambers? This is disgusting. I challenge any Bush supporter to tell me it's not, and explain why it's not. PENTAGON TO DROP BASIC GENEVA RULE But State Department objects to removal of protection from degrading treatment http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/05/MNGSVJ8H171.DTL Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:37:08 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Bruce Springsteen and the Seeger Sessions Band On Jay Leno njc tonight at 11:30 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:09:44 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: (NJC) What's next in BushWorld? The gas chambers? It's disgraceful, and stupid, too, unless you are TRYING to get the rest of the world to hate you to perpetuate "never ending war"...but they wouldn't...... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: > This is disgusting. I challenge any Bush supporter to tell me it's not, > and > explain why it's not. > > PENTAGON TO DROP BASIC GENEVA RULE > But State Department objects to removal of protection from degrading > treatment > http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/05/MNGSVJ8H171.DTL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: It's a brand new week!!! Hi Everyone! The best of all special wishes comes your way, from me to you, for a really lovely first whole week of June, 2006. I enjoy celebrating, if only by recognizing a new week, a new month....yep, a brand new year!!! " Sistowbell Lane Anywhere else now would seem very strange The seasons are changing Everyday in everyway Sometimes it is spring Sometimes it is not anything A poet can sing Sometimes we try Yes we always try We have a rocking chair Somedays we rock and stare At the woodlands and the grasslands and the badlands 'cross the river Sometimes we do We like the view" I am continually comforted and luxuriate in the calm, settling feelings I discover deep within me when I listen to early Joni. I've been listening to Joni's works from 1968 to 1975 now, and realize, with awe, the amazing gift she shares with us all. I am deeply grateful. On to a few responses to some of the most recent postings....Laura, I am guilty of the same exact ELEVEN World Wars!!!! And it was my mother who brought this error in writing to my attention!!! HHHMMMM......I have to wonder, though, if there may have been a pop-up from my good old unconscious!!! Thank you, Mingus!!! Isn't it always cool to discover that there's a similar thinking love of Joni person out there...sort of feeling like kindred spirits!! Catherine, thank goodness you are safe!!!!!! I had you in my heart of hearts and deep, deep prayers. I'm very glad to learn that you no longer work in that government building, and there must be a calming feeling knowing that there's the day-care center just across the street. Will we, in our generation, experience peace?? Will any future generation experience peace?? Big wars, "little" wars, personal "wars".....I miss the late 1960's and early to almost the end of the 1970's....not that there wasn't one horrendous War going on, but there were many, many of us that united in protest. Was it of any impact? I think so but can't articulate exactly how or why. I'm COMPLETELY confused about when and where the next Joni-fest is being planned. Help me out? Sending love with hope that life is treating everyone gently. Bo Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:09:29 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: 28th amendment njc to our president and congressman: before we change the constitution, how about first fix the borders. get back to work and do your jobs. fix the healthcare crisis and fix social security. there are a whole lot of problems other than same sex marriage. gene "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein __________________ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #215 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------