From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #192 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 17 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 192 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- catholic school, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] "Annie" in LOTC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] A song about Santa Barbara ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni now crappy customer serviceNJC [Catherine McKa] Re: A song about Santa Barbara NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] njc, Beckett, encore une fois ["Patti Parlette" ] njc, very moving anti-war videos ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: njc, Beckett, encore une fois [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 07:14:05 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: catholic school, njc Catherine wrote: >Lucky you. You got out of Catholic school once you got >to high school. I endured it all the way through high >school. That probably explains my social ineptitude. >.Oh wait. Maybe not. My sisters are normal >enough, normal being a relative >thing I am curious. . . whomever or whoever (?) would like to respond. . Did you go to catholic school? What grades? Anything you'd like to say about it? I went to Catholic School for grades 5th - 12. 5- 9 (boys and girls) 10 - 12 (all girls) I met many of my good friends there. While I never really embraced the dogma, the rest of it was good for me. It has got potential. LO VE Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 07:59:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC Mark, FYI, Jim is not really giving you the complete context of this phrase, "It's a Black thing". The full slogan was "It's a Black thing - you wouldn't understand". It was a catch phrase that I never really cared for, because it was a dialogue closeout. By its definition, it prohibits understanding and dialogue and makes a blanket accusation. Then again, I don't like responses like that anyway. If I ask someone why they're doing something - or doing something a certain way, and they respond "you wouldn't understand" or "that's just the way I am and I can't change", I can only assume that they don't have a good reason for doing that something. Anyway, it was a catch phrase from a while back - I haven't seen it used in a long time. Bob NP: Thirteen Senses, "Do No Wrong" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 09:36:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Mark, > > FYI, Jim is not really giving you the complete > context of this phrase, > "It's a Black thing". > > The full slogan was "It's a Black thing - you > wouldn't understand". It was > a catch phrase that I never really cared for, > because it was a dialogue > closeout. By its definition, it prohibits > understanding and dialogue and > makes a blanket accusation. Then again, I don't like > responses like that > anyway. If I ask someone why they're doing something > - or doing something > a certain way, and they respond "you wouldn't > understand" or "that's just > the way I am and I can't change", I can only assume > that they don't have a > good reason for doing that something. > > Anyway, it was a catch phrase from a while back - I > haven't seen it used > in a long time. > Huh. I've heard, "It's a guy thing..." or "It's a chick thing..." and variations thereon as well. I agree with ya, Muller. It doesn't promote understanding and it does assume the other party is just too stupid to understand and isn't worthy of having something explained to them. It's very exclusive and that's not a good thing. I've never noticed, when staff (fast food places, retail, whatever) take their sweet time to assist a customer, whether it's related to the race of the customer at the counter, or if it's just general lack-of-paying-attention on the part of the staff, who are caught up with discussing their weekend. I suppose it could be some form of passive-agressive racism, but sometimes I think it has more to do with the fact that some people really aren't that aware of what's going on around them and wouldn't notice you there unless you made yourself very conspicuous. There are some people who are completely oblvious to personal space and who will walk right into you and not even notice. And there are others who are supposed to be serving you who will ignore you unless you ask (often loudly) for service, which is kind of embarassing. I used to take it personally, but later I realized some people really are like bulls in a china shop. There are times I wish I could be that way, because it probably makes life a lot simpler. Maybe it's different in some parts of the U.S. In fact, it most likely is. Not that we're without prejudice here, but Toronto is very multi-cultural and multi-racial and generally both the staff and the customers in fast food places are of a variety of racial and ethnic backgrounds. If they ignore the customer, it's usually because they're not paying attention. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:12:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni NJC It's a pretty safe statement to say that "customer service" has taken a pretty big hit in our culture, whether you're shopping in person or (especially) trying to conduct business on the phone. Anytime I have to call Blue Cross about a medical claim I have major anxiety because I know I will be subjected to the absolute worst customer service and most aggravating bureacratic runaround. I am a really calm & nice guy but these people make me lose it in short order. Bob NP: The Kinks, "Juke Box Music" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:20:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: "Annie" in LOTC Just caught this little article: http://www.laurelcanyonthebook.com/2006/05/15/gary-burdens-cover-story/ And it mentions that Annie in Joni's song "Ladies Of The Canyon" refers to Gary Burden's wife. (Gary designed the cover of Blue). I don't recall that bit o' trivia being mentioned and thought some might find it interesting. Bob NP: Meat Loaf, "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:54:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A song about Santa Barbara >I heard this on the syndicated "Acoustic Cafe"-it was a nice song, not especially happy, though: "Santa Barbara" - World Party< I have not heard it, I'll have to check out the lyrics (anyone know a good site for this... my google search did not lead me to these lyrics)... Toad the Wet Sprocket has a song that to me has the essence of Santa Barbara in it (they grew up here) called Walk on the Ocean... Another person who could write a good SB song is Jack Johnson... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 12:25:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Re: Places of Joni now crappy customer serviceNJC - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > lack-of-paying-attention on the part of the staff> > > It's a pretty safe statement to say that "customer > service" has taken a > pretty big hit in our culture, whether you're > shopping in person or > (especially) trying to conduct business on the > phone. Anytime I have to > call Blue Cross about a medical claim I have major > anxiety because I know > I will be subjected to the absolute worst customer > service and most > aggravating bureacratic runaround. I am a really > calm & nice guy but these > people make me lose it in short order. > I thought it was a Canadian thing (that you wouldn't understand, heh-heh-heh) because we Canadians often have a bit of a 'tude about customer service (giving it, that is. Instead of service with a smile, it might be service with a sneer or a smirk, or it could be a smile but it's more of an ironic smile.) I've been in the unfortunate situation of managing a call centre at one time and if you really want to torture someone, put them in charge of a call centre. You're constantly having to monitor where your staff are, y'know, some of them take longer breaks than they should, or they go to the washroom too often; move them around to cover absenteeism (and there's a lot of sick days in call centres, hmm, I wonder why); make do with fewer staff than your needs warrant; drive the ones you do have to produce more, all the while pondering the ethics of what you're doing... I feel sick to the stomach just thinking about the dreaded words, "call. centre." I think if you want your terrorist suspects to spill the beans, you make them work in one and it's hard to say whether being one of the customer service reps (and I recognize the irony in that title) or the manager is worse. Where the hell is my Gaviscon? But, what's even worse is being a customer and calling some place that's got one of those automated answering systems that makes you choose from 9 different options and then, when you choose one, you have to choose from 9 more, and sometimes there's no zero-out to get a real person option. Or, if there is, then you get put in a queue to get a real person and in the meantime you're bombarded either with ads for the company's friggin' products, or with really crappy music-on-hold, interspersed with some BS about how much they *value* you as a customer and then... and then... when a *real* person DOES pick up the phone... they cut you off! and you have to go through it all over again ... and then, finally, you get a real person and that person is an obsequious bureaucrat with major attitude and the power to cut. you. off! Or, by the time someone does answer the phone... you've forgotten what you called about. But every once in a while, you get someone that answers the phone, doesn't give you attitude, answers your questions and sounds like a happy, human being and not a robot - and that surprises the hell out of me and I wonder what happened. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:26:47 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: A song about Santa Barbara NJC I checked out the official website and found out that the album it's on just came out this month. I've got a couple of WP CD's (WP is actually the solo project of Karl Wallinger, ex-Waterboy)and I recommend Goodbye Jumbo of the ones I've heard. Anyway, his site doesn't feature any lyrics. A pity. We are truly spoiled by having all things Joni at our fingertips. It used to be easy to pull up lyrics but the copyright people jumped in and said that posting lyrics was copyright infringement and most of the lyric websites have shut down since then. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Girls Talk" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 17:56:17 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Beckett, encore une fois Here is more reading for Beckett fans! (French-speaking ones, that is.) A recent copy of "Le Nouvel Observateur" just landed on my workplace desk and there is a two-page article in it, "Mon Beckett", by Salman Rushdie. All you can get on-line is this snippet (unless you are a subscriber): Mon Beckett A mes yeux, Samuel Beckett a toujours iti romancier avant d'jtre dramaturge, mjme si, je l'admets, cette opinion n'est peut-jtre que la consiquence de ma propre chronologie beckettienne. J'ai lu les romans de Beckett avant d'avoir vu reprisentie une seule de ses pihces, et lorsque enfin j'ai fait la ... [Le Nouvel Observateur - 2006/05/04] I showed it to my relatively-new (still getting to know each other) department head. She lit up as bright as a neon light when she saw the word "Beckett". I guess she *really* loves Beckett. She said: "DON'T get me going!" So I asked: "What, is he like your Joni Mitchell?" Norma laughed and nodded emphatically: "YES!" She went on and on with such passion, and it was all fascinating. It was like a mini-course in Beckett. (I need to learn more, though. Life is for learning.) Now I'm remembering a book I saw on Norma's desk. "Celine, Gadda, Beckett: Experimental Writing of the 1930s." University of Florida Press, 2000. Author? Norma Bouchard. Isn't that cool? I'm working with a Beckett scholar! And ha! This Beckett scholar is, whether she knows it or not, going to be learning a lot more about Joni Michell! With a wink and a smile, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 19:36:35 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, very moving anti-war videos Dear Joniamigos who are anti-war: There are two new very moving videos at http://www.truthout.org/multimedia.htm 1. "Mothers Day Call for Peace" (six minutes long). If you are in a hurry, I recommend jumping to the most moving part of the video which starts at 3:29. Listen to this mother, Summer Litford, and let me know if you don't cry, because then I will know that you are not human. 2. "Silent March Honors the Fallen" (four minutes long). Two of the speakers will make you cry again, but the last one really pumps you up. And we *need* to get pumped up and start speaking out some more. Do we want our kids to keep getting killed and coming home in boxes until "that's for future presidents to figure out"? (that would be January 2009 at the earliest). Please, if you must, listen again to that soldier at the end of that last video and do what he says. Speak out. Love and Peace, Patti P. (sorry to sound so bossy but I am PISSED OFF today. Neil's CD is getting into my blood like holy wine -- and it don't taste sweet, lemme tell ya!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 12:16:27 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: A song about Santa Barbara NJC I couldn't find any lyrics either, but you can hear a few seconds of the song on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004VVHZ/104-9573819-0545561?v=glance&n=5174 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Kate Bennett" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: A song about Santa Barbara NJC > good > site for this...> > > I checked out the official website and found out that the album it's on > just came out this month. I've got a couple of WP CD's (WP is actually the > solo project of Karl Wallinger, ex-Waterboy)and I recommend Goodbye Jumbo > of the ones I've heard. > > Anyway, his site doesn't feature any lyrics. A pity. We are truly spoiled > by having all things Joni at our fingertips. It used to be easy to pull up > lyrics but the copyright people jumped in and said that posting lyrics was > copyright infringement and most of the lyric websites have shut down since > then. > > Bob > > NP: Elvis Costello, "Girls Talk" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 16:07:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc, Beckett, encore une fois - --- Patti Parlette wrote: > I showed it to my relatively-new (still getting to > know each other) > department head. She lit up as bright as a neon > light when she saw the word > "Beckett". I guess she *really* loves Beckett. > > She said: "DON'T get me going!" So I asked: > "What, is he like your Joni > Mitchell?" > > Norma laughed and nodded emphatically: "YES!" > [...] > And ha! This Beckett scholar is, whether she knows > it or not, going to be > learning a lot more about Joni Michell! > > With a wink and a smile, What do Joni Mitchell and Samuel Beckett have in common, I asked myself. I've been sitting up waiting for Godot to show... I'm supposed to be working, but I can't concentrate, so I went to google and typed "Joni Mitchell and Samuel Beckett" and, as usually happens, a bunch of stuff came up, but this one caught my eye: - --------------------------------------- Grappling with Godot By colin thomas Publish Date: 23-Mar-2006 What do Samuel Beckett and Jerry Seinfeld have in common? Well, theyre both like Pablo Picasso and Joni Mitchellat least according to Morris Panych, who is directing Becketts Waiting for Godot, which runs in an Arts Club production at the Stanley Theatre from next Wednesday (March 29) until April 23. Eating a salmon salad in the lounge of the Arts Clubs Granville Island Stagehe is rehearsing upstairsPanych says: Waiting for Godot is a lot like a painting by Picasso. It makes its own rules. Thats what makes it interesting. Its like a fantastic Joni Mitchell song; Joni Mitchell reinvented music in her own way. Nothing like it existed before. Seinfeld. Theres another one, a reinvention of form. That show made its own rules and then it followed them. - ------------------------------------------ There's more but that about ends the jc. If you want to read the rest, go to: http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=16720 P.s. "Straight" isn't a magazine for heteros. It's from Vancouver. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 20:40:34 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: njc, Beckett, encore une fois Catherine wrote: >What do Joni Mitchell and Samuel Beckett have in >common, I asked myself. > >I've been sitting up waiting for Godot to show... OH MY GOD ! ! ! ! ! ! Catherine, you have me in Joni stitches!!!!!!!!!! That is toooo funnneeeee! LOL! > >I'm supposed to be working, but I can't concentrate, >so I went to google and typed "Joni Mitchell and >Samuel Beckett" and, as usually happens, a bunch of >stuff came up, but this one caught my eye: >--------------------------------------- > >Grappling with Godot >By colin thomas > >Publish Date: 23-Mar-2006 > >What do Samuel Beckett and Jerry Seinfeld have in >common? Well, theyre both like Pablo Picasso and Joni >Mitchellat least according to Morris Panych, who is >directing Becketts Waiting for Godot, which runs in >an Arts Club production at the Stanley Theatre from >next Wednesday (March 29) until April 23. > >Eating a salmon salad in the lounge of the Arts Clubs >Granville Island Stagehe is rehearsing >upstairsPanych says: Waiting for Godot is a lot like >a painting by Picasso. It makes its own rules. Thats >what makes it interesting. Its like a fantastic Joni >Mitchell song; Joni Mitchell reinvented music in her >own way. Nothing like it existed before. Seinfeld. >Theres another one, a reinvention of form. That show >made its own rules and then it followed them. > Wow. What a find! I'm going to reel Norma in with that one, I think. This Joni Mitchell lady. I think we're all on to something pretty good here. Maybe someday the "rest of the world" will get it, too. Love, Patti, still laughing! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:33:13 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Annie" in LOTC Wow, thanks for that tidbit Bob, also, check out the canyon cam....Colors of the Canyon! A while back I had found some early photographs of Joni alongside some gentlemen of the Canyon ;~) being sold on Ebay which . I managed to snatch the jpegs and I posted them on Catgirl's yahoo site.I'll have to see if I can find them and repost them there. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 23:13:51 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Magnificant Desolation: Walking on the Moon, njc Hi Ya'll, Anybody else see this IMAX movie? I saw it today on a field trip with my son's second grade class. The first part of the movie had some very touching history in it. The very last part was disappointing because they showed scenes of futuristic strip mining of the moon. I just about shouted out, "NO WAY!!!" Trips to the moon... interesting see how it affected our culture in the late 60's and into the 70's, space age stuff in music. Joni's writing seems so much more gentle and philosophical than some: We are stardust Billion year old carbon We are golden Caught in the devils bargain And weve got to get ourselves Back to the garden The devil's bargain. On the way home the 2nd graders riding in my car asked, "why aren't we still going to the moon? The teacher was riding with us and said because it costs too much. I said yes, we waste so much of our resources we can't go. I told them I think God is keeping us from going until we can love the earth and other people more. It is a physical thing set in place... use it up and there's not much progress possible in our evolution. I find it disturbing that strip mining the moon was presented as a future "goal" of a sort. If we can't respect the ecology of earth and are a danger to the earth, we will be a danger to the moon. We are already a danger to each other. Balance and respect... the garden. We are seemingly so far away from that reality. At the end of the movie, there was a solicitation of a sort for careers as astronauts. The little children sitting in that big theater getting scenes of strip mining the moon put into their heads. That was a visible devil's bargain: you can go to the moon if you mine it. In the movie, peace was shown to be focused on in the early trips to the moon. World peace, lunar peace... or take a piece of the world and moon? I'm all for space exploration, but not for space exploitation. I hope as a species we can evolve into the consciousness that places love and respect above greed. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 22:22:26 -0700 From: Subject: Surveillance - NSA (njc) We've been monitored since the early 1950s. Ever read about Echelon? Our emails have also been monitored since around the mid-1990s. I absolutely groan when once again Bush is blamed for something that began WAY before his time. The ACLU and other civil libertarian groups have been raising this issue for decades but only now under Bush it gets people's attention. Government agencies (SEC, IRS, DOJ and others) have had databases of telephone records for at least 20 years to detect patterns in calls. The horse was out of the barn years and years ago. Here's some backround on the history and all the systems that have monitored people in the U.S., Europe and other countries for decades: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html http://www.fas.org/irp/program/process/echelon.htm http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=ma00richelson http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/02/24/60minutes/main164651.shtml ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #192 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------