From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #173 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 4 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 173 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni thingy at the Mendel [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [vince ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni thingy at the Mendel [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] United 93 njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] njc Teaching Fishing [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: United 93 njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: United 93 njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: United 93 njc ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol ["Cassy" ] njc, (For the) Roses, for the mothers ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [dsknyc05 ] RE: United 93 njc [dsknyc05 ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [dsknyc05 ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: United 93 njc [Em ] Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol ["Lori Fye" ] NJC: A sad anniversary [Allmanfan54@aol.com] njc life sentence for Moussaoui [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] RE: NJC: A sad anniversary ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Duplex review - april 23 ["patrick leader" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:26:19 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol Hi Vince... I read your list and would say ..of course..I look at these things differently than you. The issue isn't immigration...who isn't for immigration? But it's rather illegal immigration that are the concerns. Welfare..cut back on food stamps..you know ..one could look at that as keeping people down..just giving them enough to keep their head above water. Rather than giving them the fish ..how bout ..teaching them to fish. But all this is debatable and we just look at the world differently. But I was surprised to see Afghanistan on your list. I wasn't surprised to see Iraq but I thought many on the left thought that going after Bin Laden was a good thing? Am I wrong? Bree > > > Promoting a culture of life...I agree with this one hundred percent. >It is > > > probably one of the reasons I sought out the Republican party. I think >all > > > life is sacred. > > >Yes, the Republicans show us the sacredness of life every day. > >In Iraq. >In Afghanistan. >In the death penalty. >In cut backs in food stamps. >In cut backs on unemployment benefits. >In despoiling the environment and blocking efforts to curb global warming. >In opposing universal health care. >In efforts to deny education and medical care to children based on their >parents immigration status. >In efforts to deny medical care and fair wages to adults based on their >immigration status. >In its response to Katrina. > >Frankly, anyone who claims to support a culture of life and supports the >Republican platforms of 1964 onward is going to have to a lot of tap >dancing in front of God. > > >(theRev)Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 07:30:19 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni thingy at the Mendel Rob writes: > I got some pics from the remaining film on my normal camera which I just > emailed to a few listas (if I figured out how to actually send the frigging > things from my laptop - long story, so Catherine, Bob, Ashara, and Jimmy, lemme > know if they don't show up, and if they do, feel free to share with whoever) Thanks for letting us know about the Mendel, Rob! If anyone wants me to forward the pics Rob took, email me off list. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 08:09:18 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol Bree Mcdonough wrote: > But I was surprised to see Afghanistan on your list. I wasn't > surprised to see Iraq but I thought many on the left thought that > going after Bin Laden was a good thing? Am I wrong? > > And if only we had gone after bin Laden. (theRev)Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 08:24:46 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol Hard to teach them anything with all the education cuts they've sponsored. Maybe they'd be for teaching them how to pray for fish and watching them starve (with compassion, of course). < I wasn't surprised to see Iraq but I thought many on the left thought that going after Bin Laden was a good thing? Am I wrong?> And something else that's been bopping around in my mind lately...I suppose that nabbing Bin Laden is OK, but does anyone really think that getting rid of ONE GUY is going to alter the path of terrorism? It seems that we tend to transpose our 'horror-movie' upbringing to the real world; that if we can just get rid of the boogeyman we'll be all right. As if terror was one guy. I mean, how many of Osama's #2's have we supposedly disposed of, and there are always a vast number of evildoers to take his place. If we did capture Osama, don't you think that another guy would take over the slot? Has capturing the big Mafia bosses done anything to reduce organized crime in the US? What makes more sense to me is to not create an environment that allows the terrorist movement to grow and fester. Bush #1 knew that with Desert Storm, Clinton certainly knew that as well. Dubya can't grasp the concept, and has created a better recruitment tool for Al-Qaida than Bin Laden could have put together himself. And now we're in too deep for too long. If we withdraw, Bin Laden gets to declare victory over the infidels, and if we stay he gets to continue to recruit to support his jihad. Like the subject line says...Thanks, George. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "World Wide Suicide" (playing by mere coincidence) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 08:36:53 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni thingy at the Mendel Rob, Thanks a bazillion for your most excellent report - I got the pics but didn't have time to look at them this morning, I can't wait to get home and give them a look. And to have gotten so much detail with all of your drape-climbers running loose - what an accomplishment! I loved the Ode to her Dad, so cute and heartfelt - you can certainly tell that there's a lot of love there. Of course, I was instantly transported to "Let The Wind Carry Me" when I read this portion: You don't remember birthdays or anniversaries you criticize your daughter "no paint, less powder, please!" And wondered when it transitioned to: Papa says "Leave the girl alone, mother She's looking like a movie queen" Oh, and congratulations on your "prom date"! Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "Unemployable" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 09:19:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol And how do you teach them to fish when: "Many of the bills are by Republican legislators looking to reduce public benefits to undocumented immigrants and investigate what they cost the state in resources and infrastructure. One bill would eliminate in-state discounted tuition rates for undocumented immigrants to attend community colleges and the state university system." This is in the state of California. The same is happening here in Florida. One of he only Republicans opposing it? A state senator from Miami who, you guessed it, is a child of immigrants. "Bense also supports two proposals in the House that would help children of illegal immigrants get either in-state tuition (HB 119, SB 366) at Florida colleges and universities or grants for college (HB 785, SB 1750). But both measures are struggling and Rep. Juan Zapata, R-Miami, sponsor of the proposal to grant in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants, conceded they have little chance this session. He said that while the migrant community has had its most successful session in years, he is disappointed that it remains such a struggle to pass anything that will help the community. "These children have played by the rules," Zapata said. "But when you try to do something for immigrants, somehow there's this automatic pushback. People need to see things for what they are and not throw the baby out with the bathwater  that to a certain degree is what we've been doing." And what did the Republican federal government do? "Rep. Mike Davis tried to get the children of legal immigrants back into the state-sponsored KidCare program. They were cut out of the program two years ago when the federal government stopped spending money on that group of children, meaning the state would have to foot the roughly $18 million bill on its own. KidCare is the state's health care plan for parents who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but are too poor to pay for private health insurance." Bree wrote: > Then Bob M. > Hard to teach them anything with all the education cuts they've sponsored. > Maybe they'd be for teaching them how to pray for fish and watching them > starve (with compassion, of course). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 09:37:24 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol You're sending the teachers to fight your phony war, even a 52-year-old Grandmother... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12581184/ Bob NP: Albert Hammond, "The Air That I breathe" (the original version that was made famous by The Hollies' cover), on Coverville - hopefully with a Joni episode soon. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 13:47:20 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol Wow. Very well said. Thanks, Bob. (theRev) Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Hard to teach them anything with all the education cuts they've sponsored. Maybe they'd be for teaching them how to pray for fish and watching them starve (with compassion, of course). < I wasn't surprised to see Iraq but I thought many on the left thought that going after Bin Laden was a good thing? Am I wrong?> And something else that's been bopping around in my mind lately...I suppose that nabbing Bin Laden is OK, but does anyone really think that getting rid of ONE GUY is going to alter the path of terrorism? It seems that we tend to transpose our 'horror-movie' upbringing to the real world; that if we can just get rid of the boogeyman we'll be all right. As if terror was one guy. I mean, how many of Osama's #2's have we supposedly disposed of, and there are always a vast number of evildoers to take his place. If we did capture Osama, don't you think that another guy would take over the slot? Has capturing the big Mafia bosses done anything to reduce organized crime in the US? What makes more sense to me is to not create an environment that allows the terrorist movement to grow and fester. Bush #1 knew that with Desert Storm, Clinton certainly knew that as well. Dubya can't grasp the concept, and has created a better recruitment tool for Al-Qaida than Bin Laden could have put together himself. And now we're in too deep for too long. If we withdraw, Bin Laden gets to declare victory over the infidels, and if we stay he gets to continue to recruit to support his jihad. Like the subject line says...Thanks, George. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "World Wide Suicide" (playing by mere coincidence) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 10:20:59 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: United 93 njc Hi all.. Marianne and I along with her mother (ma) saw United 93 at an early matinee yesterday. The director/writer/producer Peter Greenglass of the UK did a remarkable job. The movie started off showing the perfunctory and in some cases boring routines from the various industries effected by those hijacked planes. And then as the movie progressed you realized this wasn't going to be your run-of-the-mill kind of day. I heard the director interviewed recently..he is a self-described liberal, btw.. and after the London bombing last year he thought it would be a good idea for people to be reminded of that horrific day ..September 11, 2001. There wasn't any politics interjected into it as far I could it tell..just the facts. I found this interesting.. out of the entire cast I didn't see one recognizable actor or actress. I found my self pulling for the people on board...hoping they would somehow get down safely...knowing full well the outcome. It was powerful...and very sobering. Last thought..during this interview with Greenglass (still not sure if that's how you spell his name) when talking about September 11 he would say we have to do something..he didn't know what ...but we have to do something. I'm thinking along the same lines with the interviewer...... I thought we were. Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 14:44:55 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: njc Teaching Fishing The phrase "Rather than giving them the fish ..how bout ..teaching them to fish" is one that grates on me. We hear it so often. It serves as an abdication of responsibility in caring for the needs of others. Methodological presupposition: the phrase Culture of Life comes from Pope John Paul 2 in a letter to Christians. JP's usage of it was in a Christian context and of course has no special significance to those who are not Christian. That phrase has been used by Republicans (Bush especially in one the 2004 debates) in their politcal efforts. It is repugant to me that a political party takes a theological concept and adopts it for its own for partisan purposes, especially when they do such violence to what JP was saying. Culture of life does not equal opposition to abortion. It is a much broader, far more expansive concept, obvious in its use of the word "culture." It includes total and absolute opposition to the death penalty, to torture, to war, to nuclear weapons. It includes what we may term extravagent welcome to the alien, to the poor and dispossed, to the refuge, the homeless, the hungry. The use of one small piece of the whole and claiming it is the whole is obscene and does great violence to the emssage of JP2. If one is to use his language, then do what he says in total, don't pick and choose, especially when one allows, other than abortion, everything that JP opposed so strenuously. The Roman Catholic bishops who have taken such a lead on the immigration issue are doing so in keeping with what JP taught on culture of life. I give them credit for consistency. You cannot say, with any fidelity to JP's teaching, I support a culture of life but then want to clamp down on immigrants, and say I support the war, I support the death penalty, I support use of torture, I support cutbacks in aid to the poor. And the last brings us to the "teach them to fish" thing. Whenever Jesus was confronted by hungry people, they were feed the hungry - but Jesus rebuked them and said, "you feed them." Others have spoken eloquently of the hypocrasy of saying "teach" when funding for that is slashed in every place. Our first obligation - and by our, I mean Christians, as I am, and those others who share the same faith as I, our obligation is to feed those who are hungry. Teaching to fish, to use that phrase, comes afterwards. And some people will never be able to fish, our obligation to feed those people continues. Note the lesson from the book of Acts for the 2nd Sunday in Easter - all shared what they had so none was in need and the proof of the Resurrection was not in words, but in the total care for those in need.. The welcome to the aliens is so strongly and repeatedly made in the Scriptures - you were aliens so you must care for aliens - as is the call for justice for the poor and condemnation of those who ignore the plight of the poor, and Jesus' special scorn for those who said, "we wish you well" but did not supply the material items that were needed to help those without food, that to be informed by the Scriptures, by the prophets, by Jesus at all requires - not certain partisan politcal policies - but an active caring for people that is not found in so much of the political debate today. (theRev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 14:46:56 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: United 93 njc Thanks for the review. I have heard good things of it from other sources and this review just about clinches that I will go see it this weekend. (theRev) Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Bree Mcdonough" > Hi all.. > > Marianne and I along with her mother (ma) saw United 93 at an early matinee > yesterday. The director/writer/producer Peter Greenglass of the UK did a > remarkable job. The movie started off showing the perfunctory and in some > cases boring routines from the various industries effected by those hijacked > planes. And then as the movie progressed you realized this wasn't going > to be your run-of-the-mill kind of day. I heard the director interviewed > recently..he is a self-described liberal, btw.. and after the London bombing > last year he thought it would be a good idea for people to be reminded of > that horrific day ..September 11, 2001. There wasn't any politics > interjected into it as far I could it tell..just the facts. I found this > interesting.. out of the entire cast I didn't see one recognizable actor or > actress. I found my self pulling for the people on board...hoping they > would somehow get down safely...knowing full well the outcome. It was > powerful...and very sobering. > > > Last thought..during this interview with Greenglass (still not sure if > that's how you spell his name) when talking about September 11 he would say > we have to do something..he didn't know what ...but we have to do something. > I'm thinking along the same lines with the interviewer...... > > > I thought we were. > > > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 11:01:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: United 93 njc I heard nothing but glowing reviews of how the director and the producers were sensitive to all of the needs of the families. Can't wait to see it. Thanks for the review, Bree. Jerry > Hi all.. > > Marianne and I along with her mother (ma) saw United 93 at an early matinee > yesterday. The director/writer/producer Peter Greenglass of the UK did a > remarkable job. The movie started off showing the perfunctory and in some > cases boring routines from the various industries effected by those hijacked > planes. And then as the movie progressed you realized this wasn't going > to be your run-of-the-mill kind of day. I heard the director interviewed > recently..he is a self-described liberal, btw.. and after the London bombing > last year he thought it would be a good idea for people to be reminded of > that horrific day ..September 11, 2001. There wasn't any politics > interjected into it as far I could it tell..just the facts. I found this > interesting.. out of the entire cast I didn't see one recognizable actor or > actress. I found my self pulling for the people on board...hoping they > would somehow get down safely...knowing full well the outcome. It was > powerful...and very sobering. > > > Last thought..during this interview with Greenglass (still not sure if > that's how you spell his name) when talking about September 11 he would say > we have to do something..he didn't know what ...but we have to do something. > I'm thinking along the same lines with the interviewer...... > > > I thought we were. > > > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 11:01:31 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol The only scary thing about this to me is the fact she's a 52 YEAR OLD GRANDMOTHER. Ouch! I'm not too far from 52 myself and that's scary to me to be of that grandmotherly age. But seriously...regardless is this a illegitimate war...not just...immoral..I respect your opinion..btw...but she signed on for it when she enlisted years ago. Would you rather it be a 52 year old grandfather? (I know you reject this war..so you don't want anyone fighting over there..but we are in it..at least for now) We (women) wanted to be treated fairly..and so now we are. I skimmed the article but she didn't seem to be complaining too much. I know she said something about it being hard to say goodbye to her 300 students. Military people aren't asked when they sign up ..will you go to war ..ONLY if it's popular . I think they sign up for a plethora of reasons. This headline from MSNBC was meant to incite.(and go with their liberal bias too)..to give the notion ..Geez...we are resorting to sending even grandma over there. War is hell ..there is no denying it..and no one is saying it isn't. .... it comes down to when to engage or not. Bree > > >You're sending the teachers to fight your phony war, even a 52-year-old >Grandmother... > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12581184/ > >Bob > >NP: Albert Hammond, "The Air That I breathe" (the original version that >was made famous by The Hollies' cover), on Coverville - hopefully with a >Joni episode soon. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The information transmitted is intended only for the person >or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, >business-confidential and/or privileged material. >If you are not the intended recipient of this message you >are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, >dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken >in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received >this in error, please contact the sender and delete the >material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message >are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect >the views of the company. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:26:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol <...but she signed on for it when she enlisted years ago.> This reminds me of the classic line in Animal House when Flounder looked at his wrecked car and all his buddies could say was "you f*cked up - you trusted us!" There should be a balance between those who commit themselves to military service and those who respect that spirit enough not to engage them in illigimate combat. That is sorely lacking here, perhaps because those making the decisions are military service-avoiders themselves. Those who know first-hand the realities of war seem to be more hesitant to commit those lives, young and old. I appreciate your respect and return the same, though the things you say often make the eyes roll 'round in my head. Bob NP: Gomez, "All Too Much" (it's getting hard to keep up with all the great new music!) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:10:48 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: United 93 njc I know it's gotten rave reviews, but I just can't bring myself to see it. That day was horrifying enough when it really happened, and I have no desire to revisit it at the movie theater. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:01 AM To: Bree Mcdonough; Joni List; treegreen1@hotmail.com Subject: Re: United 93 njc I heard nothing but glowing reviews of how the director and the producers were sensitive to all of the needs of the families. Can't wait to see it. Thanks for the review, Bree. Jerry > Hi all.. > > Marianne and I along with her mother (ma) saw United 93 at an early matinee > yesterday. The director/writer/producer Peter Greenglass of the UK did a > remarkable job. The movie started off showing the perfunctory and in some > cases boring routines from the various industries effected by those hijacked > planes. And then as the movie progressed you realized this wasn't going > to be your run-of-the-mill kind of day. I heard the director interviewed > recently..he is a self-described liberal, btw.. and after the London bombing > last year he thought it would be a good idea for people to be reminded of > that horrific day ..September 11, 2001. There wasn't any politics > interjected into it as far I could it tell..just the facts. I found this > interesting.. out of the entire cast I didn't see one recognizable actor or > actress. I found my self pulling for the people on board...hoping they > would somehow get down safely...knowing full well the outcome. It was > powerful...and very sobering. > > > Last thought..during this interview with Greenglass (still not sure if > that's how you spell his name) when talking about September 11 he would say > we have to do something..he didn't know what ...but we have to do something. > I'm thinking along the same lines with the interviewer...... > > > I thought we were. > > > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:19:03 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol <<<...but she signed on for it when she enlisted years ago.>>> I am reminded of my brother a lot of years ago when he decided he was going to enlist in the military in order to get his college tuition paid. He asked me what I thought and I asked him point-blank "Are you prepared to die for your country?" He chose NOT to enlist. Those who sign up for reserve duty know there is a chance they will be called up to serve in the event of war whether they agree with the politics of that war is irrelevant. To be in the reserves for 19 years and only now be called up to perform the duties one agreed to when enlisting seems like a long pass to me. It's unfortunate that there aren't enough new recruits to cover the needs of our military to exempt a woman of 52 from having to go to the front and (without getting into the politics of whether we should or should not be fighting in Iraq) when a person makes a committment and takes the compensation for it they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contract. The article stated that the woman will serve in "security", I read that to mean she will not be running across the burning desert into hordes of Iraqi insurgents with her rifle in her hands or taking them on in hand to hand combat. For 19 years the woman has taken my tax dollars, for what? To play weekend warrior and suplement her income? I am not unsympathetic to her situation by any means but personally don't feel it's "unfair" as her sister does to call her into service 10 months prior to her retirement. I don't honestly know what's involved in benefits for retired reserves but it must be worth hanging on for another 10 months to be eligible for them. This cannot be an isolated case, though it does demonstrate the extremes; It makes me thinks whether I am prepared to give the woman a pass on her obligation and continue to pay her for 10 months then pay her for an undefined period of retirement. Call me heartless but in my conscience I can't justify it. So we give this woman a pass, how many others do we give a pass to and at what cost to the taxpayer? Warmly Cassy NP: Bridge of Sighs - Robin Trower ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 16:25:37 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, (For the) Roses, for the mothers Dear Joniamigos: "Give me some time I feel like I'm losing mine..." Argh!!! I wish I had more time to read and write here lately. Sometimes this job interferes with my life! : ) So I'm just popping in quickly to share something from the actforchange website: "This Mothers Day (May 14), thousands of mothers will mark this occasion with a heavy heart  mothers whose children have been killed or wounded in the war in Iraq. Mothers from all over the country, including Cindy Sheehan and women from Iraq and Iran, will gather in front of the White House for a 24-hour-vigil to honor the war dead and demand an end to the war. What can you do? Send a Mothers Day rose to Washington, D.C., and let the mothers of the fallen and wounded soldiers know that you stand with them and against the war. Organic roses will be presented to the mothers and tied to the fence outside the White House as a memorial to the dead and a call for peace." Isn't this a great idea? I love it! "Where have all the flowers gone?" We can bring them back for only $3 each. There are two other proposed actions you can take (write to Laura Bush -- Stepford Wife, imo -- or volunteer for the DC vigil) at this website: http://by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=0A8C3CA3-D902-4016-BA34-CABA00A2D13C&start=0&len=10661&msgread=1&imgsafe=n&curmbox=00000000%2d0000%2d0000%2d0000%2d000000000001&a=4d2d8665ed49f67a350178e82d1d7c66eb3053a8e8c4ebb699fd4e482f198180 I tried this link myself and it actually worked, so I hope it does for you all, too. And if it doesn't, here's the one for just the flower power part: https://www.workingforchange.com/Order/index.cfm?OrderFormID=8 Love, peace, and flower power, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 12:55:19 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol I get this quite often..Bob..from you-know-who. "Covers" is great...I'm listening as I type....and reading your synopsis for each song. Thanks! Bree >I appreciate your respect and return the same, though the things you say >often make the eyes roll 'round in my head. > >Bob > >NP: Gomez, "All Too Much" (it's getting hard to keep up with all the great >new music!) > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The information transmitted is intended only for the person >or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, >business-confidential and/or privileged material. >If you are not the intended recipient of this message you >are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, >dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken >in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received >this in error, please contact the sender and delete the >material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message >are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect >the views of the company. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > And something else that's been bopping around in my > mind lately...I > suppose that nabbing Bin Laden is OK, but does > anyone really think that > getting rid of ONE GUY is going to alter the path of > terrorism? It would have made a huge difference if he'd been caught six months to a year after 9/11. Catch him and then look at what can be done to address the terrorists' grievances (which were tangible at the beginning but not anymore; now it's generalized destructive fury). For example, why does the U.S. have military bases in Saudi Arabia, considered holy ground by Muslims? Since that is one of bin Laden's and his followers' main irritants, why not at least consider moving the bases elsewhere? It might have been that no matter what the U.S. did, the extremists were looking for a fight and would have found other things to focus on even if the U.S. bases had been moved out of Saudi Arabia. But, since that sensible path was not followed, we'll never know. > It seems > that we tend to transpose our 'horror-movie' > upbringing to the real world; > that if we can just get rid of the boogeyman we'll > be all right. As if > terror was one guy. I mean, how many of Osama's #2's > have we supposedly > disposed of, and there are always a vast number of > evildoers to take his > place. If we did capture Osama, don't you think that > another guy would > take over the slot? You're right, Bob, catching bin Laden now won't mean much, except to Dubya who'll make a big deal about it. Meanwhile, invading Iraq has made even mild mannered Muslims angry and recruited so many terrorists, there are a million #2s. Now. > What makes more sense to me is to not create an > environment that allows > the terrorist movement to grow and fester. Bush #1 > knew that with Desert > Storm, Clinton certainly knew that as well. Dubya > can't grasp the concept, > and has created a better recruitment tool for > Al-Qaida than Bin Laden > could have put together himself. And now we're in > too deep for too long. > If we withdraw, Bin Laden gets to declare victory > over the infidels, and > if we stay he gets to continue to recruit to support > his jihad. All well said. Thanks, Bob. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: RE: United 93 njc - --- Richard Flynn wrote: > I know it's gotten rave reviews, but I just can't > bring myself to see it. > > That day was horrifying enough when it really > happened, and I have no desire > to revisit it at the movie theater. That's how I feel about it. It's distasteful to me that it's been made into entertainment in what feels to me like a very short time since that horrible day. The good thing, maybe, is that it will give people who did not directly experience it a more emotional visceral understanding of that day. I'm not sure what that's worth... I'd hate for people who see it to get so emotionally charged up against the "bad guys" that invading Iran seems like a good idea. It'll be interesting to see how the Bushies use this movie for their own benefit. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 13:28:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol For example, why does the U.S. have > military bases in Saudi Arabia, considered holy ground > by Muslims? Since that is one of bin Laden's and his > followers' main irritants, why not at least consider > moving the bases elsewhere? The answer to that one is easy. The bases are there to protect our oil interests. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > For example, why does the U.S. have > > military bases in Saudi Arabia, considered holy > ground > > by Muslims? > > The answer to that one is easy. The bases are there > to protect our oil > interests. And to keep the Saudi royal family protected, too. All the killing done for that oil! Considering the recent quick rise in gas prices in the U.S., that "protection" isn't working out very well. Wouldn't it be great if fuel from corn became the most-used fuel? Take the corn syrup out of all the processed food helping to make Americans fat, and make fuel from the corn instead. Corn farmers would be happy, taxpayers wouldn't have to subsidize them to keep them from growing too much corn, Americans would (eventually) lose that "all food has to taste sweet to be good" training, and we wouldn't have to be killing people to "protect" that oil. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:12:17 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol <"Covers" is great...I'm listening as I type....and reading your synopsis for each song.> Awesome, Bree - thanks for your big-hearted support. "You-know-who" told me that you were burning the midnight oil listening last night. Glad you're diggin' 'em. And one of the many things I love about Joni covers is that they are apolitical. Bob NP: Al Jarreau, "You Don't See Me" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: United 93 njc as I told some friends the other day, no I don't want to see it and have more emotions dragged up out of "perimenopausal me" like the egyptians used to drag dead people's brains out through their noses. At this point I feel like just let the emotions stay put, for once. They're there; they'll rise up on their own soon enough. Em - --- dsknyc05 wrote: > --- Richard Flynn wrote: > > > I know it's gotten rave reviews, but I just can't > > bring myself to see it. > > > > That day was horrifying enough when it really > > happened, and I have no desire > > to revisit it at the movie theater. > > That's how I feel about it. > > It's distasteful to me that it's been made into > entertainment in what feels to me like a very short > time since that horrible day. The good thing, maybe, > is that it will give people who did not directly > experience it a more emotional visceral understanding > of that day. I'm not sure what that's worth... I'd > hate for people who see it to get so emotionally > charged up against the "bad guys" that invading Iran > seems like a good idea. It'll be interesting to see > how the Bushies use this movie for their own benefit. > > Debra Shea, > in NYC > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:33:20 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC - Thanks - Pol As a former member of the U.S. Air Force and Arizona Air National Guard, I agree with everything you wrote, Cassy -- and I even agree with Bree that MSN is trying to sensationalize the Janet Grass's situation with its headline. However, I do need to make a point about this comment from Cassy: > I don't honestly know what's involved in benefits for retired reserves but it must > be worth hanging on for another 10 months to be eligible for them. The article states: "Grass will train in California and Texas before deploying to Iraq for 12 to 18 months." This is what we've seen, time and time again. Service members scheduled to separate or retire have had to stay in, due to the military's "stop loss" plan being implemented. Now Grass has had her time extended -- and there's no guarantee that she'll be home in a year and a half. Yes, she signed up for service knowing that all of this possible -- but, until this war, it's been a very remote possibility. And the whole thing really does comes down to what Bob wrote: > There should be a balance between those who commit themselves > to military service and those who respect that spirit enough not to engage > them in illigimate combat. That is sorely lacking here, perhaps because > those making the decisions are military service-avoiders themselves. THAT is the unfairness that so sickens me. None of the powers-that-be would fight themselves, and they aren't sending THEIR kids or other loved ones to fight this war. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 16:26:17 EDT From: Allmanfan54@aol.com Subject: NJC: A sad anniversary Jeffrey Miller, Sandy Scheuer, William Schroeder, & Allison Krause. How many here know those names? They are the "4 dead in Ohio." 36 years ago today they were murdered at Kent State. That's just what it was, murder, and no one could ever convince me otherwise. They were kids, just kids. Allison Krause had just turned 19 on April 23rd. 9 more students were wounded, the most seriously, Dean Kahler, was permanently paralyzed. When I found out about it the next day, it changed my life. Tuesday, May 5 started just like any other day for me. I got up, and got ready for school. I was 15, so I didn't have my license, but I was cool because I rode to school with Rich Franzino every morning. If we were lucky, we had a joint to smoke on the way there. I walked out and sat on the steps waiting for Rich. Beautiful spring day, dew on the new grass, buds on the twin dogwood trees in the front lawn. Rich pulled up, and I walked to the car. I knew when I saw him that something was terribly wrong. He had tears in his eyes. He showed me the newspaper, and I know that my mouth fell open. I just couldn't believe it. Other students had been killed while protesting, but for some reason, this event hit hard. Part of it was the picture of Mary Ann Vechio kneeling beside the lifeless body of Jeffrey Miller as he lay dying. She was a 14 year old runaway, hanging out on the campus. The anguish on her face is something no 14 year old should ever have to feel. From that day on I was an active participant in any protest I could get to. Tear gassed in New Haven, and corralled with a few thousand others into the Yale Bowl till they let us go, marches in NYC, distributing flyers, anything I could do. I just knew that killing kids was wrong, and more than that, the war was wrong. Eventually, we made the war unpopular enough so that even the lemmings responded, and the war ended. But not before 60,000 Americans died, and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. War is wrong. The war in Iraq is wrong. On this sad anniversary, I hope with all my heart that it won't take 4 more dead in Ohio, or Texas, or some other state, for people to see the futility of this war, and for the lemmings to wake up once again. I agree with Ben Franklin's quote; "There never was a good war, or a bad peace." The people need to wake up, and rise up. Bush is evil, he will undoubtedly go down in history as our worst president ever, and his war is just plain wrong. There is a lot of information available on Kent State if anyone is interested, and a good place to start is KentState.org. Mary Ann Vechio, the girl in the photo fell into obscurity after May 4th, and wasn't heard from for many years. I was happy to find out that she has surfaced, and will be the key speaker at Kent State today. "...it's very hard to ignore that Kent State thing. They were down there, man, ready to do it. You can see them, they're all kneeling there, they're all in the kneeling position and they got their slings tight and they're ready to shoot. And there's this kid, this long-haired kid standin' there with a flag wavin' it... I mean, I cannot be a man, and be a human, and ignore that." - -- DAVID CROSBY, ROLLING STONE magazine interview, July 23, 1970, pp. 22-23. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 21:11:54 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: njc life sentence for Moussaoui As one who is totally opposed to the death penalty, I thank God the jury decided not to make this deranged person into a martyr. (theRev) Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:51:35 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: RE: NJC: A sad anniversary Original Message: - ----------------- From: Allmanfan54@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 16:26:17 EDT To: joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC: A sad anniversary >Jeffrey Miller, Sandy Scheuer, William Schroeder, & Allison Krause. How many >here know those names? They are the "4 dead in Ohio." 36 years ago today >they were murdered at Kent State. Actually, it was on May 4th, 1970, but a very nice post nonetheless. JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 00:54:19 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: Duplex review - april 23 hey, i've been crazed busy, but i did hope to review the "Tales of Joni: The Storefront Sings Mitchell" event i attended week before last with brian gross, michael o'malley and his partner rene. we had a short but lovely time catching up. so i've been rolling thoughts around in my head 1) cabaret singers are extremely well trained. each of these performers had really strong vocal technique and variety in their voices. 2) cabaret singers really emphasize the lyrics, and this is a pleasure, because it makes the songs extremely communicative 3) i was also struck by how young many of the singers were. made me feel a little old. 4) they smile a lot, sometimes too much, sometimes when it doesn't fit the lyric at all. 5) no guitar at this event, just a damn fine-sounding grand piano. some of the singers had pianists as accompanists, a couple of the singers played for themselves. the piano work was of a very satisfying, consistently high level. 6) the three men who took solo songs made them distinctly gay. this is in direct contrast with how i've heard some of the songs sung on cover frisbees or at fests. not good or bad, and with varying degrees of success. this brings me to the first highlight: - - michael holland singing 'strange boy' (and his strange boy sang 'woodstock' within the song). holland played piano and sang, his voice wasn't striking but very smooth, and he really truly felt the song. strange boy has always felt the most potentially 'gay' song of joni's; the attitude toward the guy feels very familiar to me as a gay man, much more than 'coyote' and other songs. holland just really inhabited the song, and i think we were all in agreement that it was a great moment. - - baby jane dexter singing 'be cool'. this was late in the show, and it felt like an adult had come on stage, almost for the first time. i've heard the version that showed up on a cover disk, but her dark and low voice sounds much better live, and her rhythmic push, her sass, just work. - - liz mccartney did a lovely job with 'night ride home' and it was great to hear a later song. most of the rest of the show was very entertaining, there were many fine voices, but i think i'm going to leave it at that. patrick, overscheduled again np - matmos - steam and sequins for larry levan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #173 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------