From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #160 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 26 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 160 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Republican mysteries (njc) [] Sounds great: preview of new Springsteen, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] njc, Bo's wisdom ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: ding dong the Rush is on, njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: ding dong the Rush is on, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] This JUST in!! [Michael Paz ] Re: Bree, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] njc, CSNY TOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Welcome To Asbury Park njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: republican mysteries NJC ["mike pritchard" ] NJC Bob Dylan on XM - Preview Stream ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:21:15 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Hi Mike: Just two points, Kakki,: 1. "Whatever the criticisms of the U.S. we are still the most free country in the world in terms of individual freedoms and opportunities for a chance at a better life and prosperity vs. stagnation and "stay in your classism." This sounds to me like a mantra, not an objective, realistic assessment of the USA. You mention Chinese, Korean, Irish and Filipinos, but where are the Canadians, Swedish, Finns and Dutch people flocking to the US? I haven't heard about that. You select some countries but ignore others. I think most of the countries I mention would dispute your claim that the USA is the most free country. I think I said free and provides the best opportunities for personal prosperity. I think the original point was about people who come from perhaps "semi-democratic" countries or those countries that are marginally democratic and the idea some have that people might be O.K. in their countries regardless of opportunity because "it is their culture." Maybe Canada, Finland, Sweden and the Netherlands are superior, and I do not have the statistics of people fleeing their homelands and trying to live in those countries, legally or illegally I really think I live in a city that contains some of the most diverse groups of immigrants in the world. I work with immigrants, am friends with immigrants, have had relationships with them and sometimes employ them. Some of my immigrant friends are also from Europe, Australia and Africa. They are all highly skilled and educated and are seeking to live and work here legally by going through the long legal process. They want to be here rather than their homeland. Why would that be? Sure there can be all kinds of reasons but all the ones I know have adopted their new country and think they are fortunate to be here. I'm not sure why they feel that way and have not asked them to give me specific details but they are not here because something forced them to be here. 2. "Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections" Given what's been happening recently in the US, do you really think these reflect present-day US values, or are they goals to be achieved one day in the future, or memories of a golden age in the past? Mike, do you really think you know conclusively what is "happening in the U.S.?" I would never assume to be an expert or all knowledgeable about what is happening in Spain or France or any country, even my own sometimes! But I would believe I know more as a native than someone who is not and who has no real experience of my country. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:24:21 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Sounds great: preview of new Springsteen, njc I heard previews of 2 tracks from the new Springsteen and WOW! I will enjoy this one. "The World Cafe" invited a critic on to review the new project. He said they're not echoes of Tom Joad on this disc although the material is from Pete Seeger's era. What I love about it (already) are 2 things: 1. The Boss is having fun again, like those roadhouse songs on "The River". 2. Without giving anything away, there are some rhythms and instruments in play this time around that are new to his music. Because they overlap with forms I already like a lot, I'm psyched to hear the rest. I'll buy it. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:43:47 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC Maybe we can steer this thread back towards music. "If unable to dance", what would you do? (It's a reference to "Touch of Gray", a late Grateful Dead song.) Jim L'Hommedieu np: a video clip from Springsteen's "We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Sessions" called "John Henry". It's on Amazon, ya'll. Lori said, >I would wait until he was buried and then dance on his grave.> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:46:29 -0700 From: Subject: Red-staters (njc) JR in NH wrote: "Because the red-staters, through their ignorance, have highjacked the term 'patriotism' by using it to describe their feelings of jingoism, which most on the left, that I know of, do not share." Oh come on, even the media is starting to acknowledge that most of the states are purple - a mix of red and blue. "As soon as one of those flag-waving, gun-toting, Nascar-loving red-staters can explain the difference between honest support for their country (patriotism) and their brand of my-country-right-or-wrong, love-it-or-leave it (jingoism), THEN I might have a small bit of respect for them." That's a stereotype taken from TV, films and other sources. People are people are people. They get angry and frothing at the mouth on BOTH SIDES sides of the spectrum and say things that are sometimes outrageous because they are so fed up and they let themselves get all riled up by emotion and reactiveness. Everyone does it on both sides. "Until then, as far as I'm concerned, you're either on the side of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Rush Limbaugh. It's as simple as that. Either you care about the poor and disadvantaged of the world, or you just think "I've got mine, f*%k everyone else"." Oh baloney! If the Rush Limbaugh crowd really thought that way then why aren't they collectively leading a massive tax boycott and revolt so they can keep ALL their money instead of paying an average or 50 - 70% percent total taxes? Sure maybe they don't want the IRS to put them in jail but if they really didn't care about anyone else like the poor and disadvantaged, they would have enough numbers to radically change the status quo. What you probably don't consider is that many of the people you stereotype HAVE been poor and have been disadvantaged and many have struggled for years to improve their personal lives. You will never convince those people, who are many, that they are uncaring and have no understanding and are some dumb NASCAR stereotype. They will likely look at you as someone who personally doesn't know what it is like to have been there. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:00:09 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Bo's wisdom Bo wrote: Hello everyone! The sun is shining at 6:32PM this Tuesday evening. That's a good thing... a Spring-like, happy thing. Throughout our planet, regardless of time zone, way too many human beings are crying, suffering, in some cases, that their unimaginable suffering silences their screams. That's a very, very bad thing. Regardless of Bush's mental status, (most everything we can think of is contained within a continuum....as are sociopaths and their close relatives, the psychopaths), we don't have a choice....YET....we, as members of the human beings on planet earth, most particularly in the USA, must learn to accept that this "leader" is with us for the next few YEARS. A very sobering thought. Yes, I'm extremely interested in keeping up-to-date with all of the world's current events and most likely will borrow a copy of Justin A. Frank's "Bush On The Couch" from my local (magnificent) library....but, I'm trying with all my heart and soul to lead my life in a way that's best described by the title of a book written by Frieda Fromm-Reichmann, "To Redeem One Person Is To Redeem The World". Freida Fromm-Reichmann, a German-Jewish refugee analyst, was the first wife of Erich Fromm. She was born in 1889 and died in 1957. I vow never to be a member of the tribe "Sheeple". As I grow older, I'm more and more convinced that I can only enthusiastically attempt to brighten, enhance (not at the "redeem" level) the life of one person at a time. Some of my days include eight or ten people at a time. Some days less. I'm not quite sure what motivates these written thoughts. I'm extremely enlightened, fascinated and filled with respect by so much of the contents of what the members of the JMDL family shares in their postings. For whatever reason, these are my thoughts as I read the #158 Digest. Just wanted to share them with you ..... Peace with love, Bo - ---- Yeah, "what she said". Particularly this: "As I grow older, I'm more and more convinced that I can only enthusiastically attempt to brighten, enhance (not at the "redeem" level) the life of one person at a time." "Be the change you wish to see in the word." "That's what I think!" Brava, Bo! However, the one thing I have terrible trouble with is accepting three more years of this administration. I just cannot accept that. I will not accept that, and I will continute speaking out. Enough is enough. You've all been brilliant today, and pretty much respectful. I love the dialogue here. I wish I had more time on my hands to read and say more, but I've got way too much going on....all good stuff, but kind of overwhelming right now. Love and peace to all (and you know I mean it), Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:06:47 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: ding dong the Rush is on, njc No...I take full credit. > Did Rush write this post for you... with song and all and a >demoralizing >PS conclusion to boot? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:33:37 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Just a thought or two from Bo Who asked you?!!! Stay out of it!!! >Hello everyone! > The sun is shining at 6:32PM this Tuesday evening. That's a good >thing... a Spring-like, happy thing. Throughout our planet, regardless of >time zone, way too many human beings are crying, suffering, in some cases, >that their unimaginable suffering silences their screams. That's a very, >very bad thing. > Regardless of Bush's mental status, (most everything we can think of is >contained within a continuum....as are sociopaths and their close >relatives, the psychopaths), we don't have a choice....YET....we, as >members of the human beings on planet earth, most particularly in the USA, >must learn to accept that this "leader" is with us for the next few YEARS. >A very sobering thought. > Yes, I'm extremely interested in keeping up-to-date with all of the >world's current events and most likely will borrow a copy of Justin A. >Frank's "Bush On The Couch" from my local (magnificent) library....but, I'm >trying with all my heart and soul to lead my life in a way that's best >described by the title of a book written by Frieda Fromm-Reichmann, "To >Redeem One Person Is To Redeem The World". Freida Fromm-Reichmann, a >German-Jewish refugee analyst, was the first wife of Erich Fromm. She was >born in 1889 and died in 1957. > I vow never to be a member of the tribe "Sheeple". As I grow older, I'm >more and more convinced that I can only enthusiastically attempt to >brighten, enhance (not at the "redeem" level) the life of one person at a >time. Some of my days include eight or ten people at a time. Some days >less. > I'm not quite sure what motivates these written thoughts. I'm extremely >enlightened, fascinated and filled with respect by so much of the contents >of what the members of the JMDL family shares in their postings. > For whatever reason, these are my thoughts as I read the #158 Digest. >Just wanted to share them with you ..... > Peace with love, > Bo > > > >--------------------------------- >Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! >Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:39:02 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Just a thought or two from Bo Hi Bo... I was just kidding ..of course... in my last post to you. (I get kind of wacky at night..slap happy...and a bit sociopathic) This is a very beautiful and sweet ..honest...post. Thanks for sharing! I'll put that book you wrote about on my birthday presents list. Bree >Hello everyone! > The sun is shining at 6:32PM this Tuesday evening. That's a good >thing... a Spring-like, happy thing. Throughout our planet, regardless of >time zone, way too many human beings are crying, suffering, in some cases, >that their unimaginable suffering silences their screams. That's a very, >very bad thing. > Regardless of Bush's mental status, (most everything we can think of is >contained within a continuum....as are sociopaths and their close >relatives, the psychopaths), we don't have a choice....YET....we, as >members of the human beings on planet earth, most particularly in the USA, >must learn to accept that this "leader" is with us for the next few YEARS. >A very sobering thought. > Yes, I'm extremely interested in keeping up-to-date with all of the >world's current events and most likely will borrow a copy of Justin A. >Frank's "Bush On The Couch" from my local (magnificent) library....but, I'm >trying with all my heart and soul to lead my life in a way that's best >described by the title of a book written by Frieda Fromm-Reichmann, "To >Redeem One Person Is To Redeem The World". Freida Fromm-Reichmann, a >German-Jewish refugee analyst, was the first wife of Erich Fromm. She was >born in 1889 and died in 1957. > I vow never to be a member of the tribe "Sheeple". As I grow older, I'm >more and more convinced that I can only enthusiastically attempt to >brighten, enhance (not at the "redeem" level) the life of one person at a >time. Some of my days include eight or ten people at a time. Some days >less. > I'm not quite sure what motivates these written thoughts. I'm extremely >enlightened, fascinated and filled with respect by so much of the contents >of what the members of the JMDL family shares in their postings. > For whatever reason, these are my thoughts as I read the #158 Digest. >Just wanted to share them with you ..... > Peace with love, > Bo > > > >--------------------------------- >Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! >Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:49:38 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC I love your honesty..I know a lot of people feel this way. I had my own little dreams about Clinton's demise. ( Too dark to share ) Bree > > > PS. I'm thinking about how if Bush died tonight ..you all would be >dancing > > in the streets tomorrow. > >No, not true. > >I would wait until he was buried and then dance on his grave. > >Lori, >not as nice as other people ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:04:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Music njc Bob>looking forward to that Mark Knopfler/Emmylou Harris CD, a< Woohooo me tooo! Just got presale tickets for this show & looking forward to my free cd! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:07:31 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: ding dong the Rush is on, njc well we have the guy with no brains & the guy with no heart & they both have no courage... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:17:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC >More people were executed in Texas than under any other >governor. < There is a song by mary gauthier about the woman (carla fay?) executed in texas (I believe under bush's reign) who repented (in a christian way) but was not pardoned... You mary g fans, did I get my facts right? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:21:14 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: This JUST in!! Hi Everybody Tune in over the next two weeks and watch us work at the 2006 NOJHF. Here is the info below on what' we are doing. I will be the stage manager on most of these bands listed below. Watch for me upstage or in the wings as I do my thing. I am so excited it is going to be a gas. To top it off I get to go to HOB tomorrow night to see my buddy Eric Johnson open for Joe Satriani. Then over to Tips to do the 3rd of the Putomayo series. 3 Brass bands. Tune in to that at www.tipitinas.com Happy Jazz Fest ya'll. Love Paz NP-Why Can't We Be Friends-War MSN Video Bands Together With Music Legends for Video Webcast of the 2006 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival MSN Video to stream original performances from Jimmy Buffet, Dave Matthews Band, Paul Simon, Elvis Costello and others. Related Links Microsoft Resources: MSN & Windows Live Newsroom on Presspass REDMOND, Wash. April 14, 2006 MSN is celebrating the return of the legendary New Orleans Jazz & Heritage musical event by bringing select performances into homes around the globe April 28-30 and May 5-7. MSN has entered into an agreement with the 2006 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival to be the exclusive webcast provider of the first Jazz Fest following the catastrophic events of Hurricane Katrina and will donate all the advertising proceeds to benefit New Orleans Katrina Relief efforts. The webcast is scheduled to include concert performances by globally popular artists such as Jimmy Buffett, Elvis Costello, Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon and the Dave Matthews Band, as well New Orleans music legends including Dr. John, Allen Toussaint, Irma Thomas and Buckwheat Zydeco. ******************************************************** Viewers can tune in to the festival coverage at http://msnvideo.com/jazzfest. ******************************************************** To enable an even deeper connection with the bands, MSN is planning to provide listeners with interactive and dynamic links from the webcast page to artist photos, interviews, feature stories and other content. 3The New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival is a landmark music and cultural event, and MSN is honored to be a part of this year9s festival and to give people everywhere a front-row seat to see their favorite artists and experience the rich culture of New Orleans,2 said Rob Bennett, general manager for Entertainment and Video Services at MSN. The 37th annual Jazz Fest will be held at its traditional home at the New Orleans Fair Grounds Race Course (a Churchill Downs Company) and is expected to draw hundreds of thousands of fans to the event. 3We9re inviting the world to come to Jazz Fest with the help of MSN,2 said festival producer and director Quint Davis. 3MSN is enabling a global audience to embrace the music and soul of New Orleans, bringing amazing musicians, culture and the goodwill of our great city into the homes of millions who continue to support our community following Hurricane Katrina.2 About Jazz Fest The New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival and Foundation Inc. is the nonprofit institution that oversees the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival presented by Shell. The Foundation uses proceeds from the Festival to develop and support special projects designed to preserve and perpetuate the area9s rich music and cultural heritage. For information on the Foundation and its programs, visit nojhf.org or call (504) 522-4786. The New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival presented by Shell is a co-production of Festival Productions L.L.C. (a wholly owned subsidiary of Festival Productions Inc.-New Orleans) and AEG Louisiana Production L.L.C. (a subsidiary of AEG LIVE). About MSN Video MSN Video is one of the largest video-only streaming services on the Web, watched by more than 11 million unique users per month. In addition to streaming news, entertainment and sports video clips from more than 45 content partners, MSN Video presents a broad array of live events to online audiences worldwide. More than 50 top advertisers support MSN Video, which is available to consumers at no charge. MSN Video is available on the Web at http://msnvideo.com to consumers in the U.S. MSN Video is also live in Australia, Canada and Japan, and in Spanish in the U.S.; the service also is in beta testing in the U.K. About Microsoft Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq 3MSFT2) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential. Microsoft and MSN are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corp. in the United States and/or other countries. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners. Note to editors: If you are interested in viewing additional information on Microsoft, please visit the Microsoft. Web page at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass on Microsoft9s corporate information pages. Web links, telephone numbers and titles were correct at time of publication, but may since have changed. For additional assistance, journalists and analysts may contact Microsoft9s Rapid Response Team or other appropriate contacts listed at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/contactpr.mspx. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:21:54 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Bree, njc A man of the cloth said: Oh Bree, keep on with the insults. Brings to my mind this Dylan song. I think I'd rather sing to Bree than continue on in this discussion. Anybody who would like to join in is welcome: Darkness at the break of noon Shadows even the silver spoon The handmade blade, the child's balloon Eclipses both the sun and moon To understand you know too soon There is no sense in trying. Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn Suicide remarks are torn From the fool's gold mouthpiece The hollow horn plays wasted words Proves to warn That he not busy being born Is busy dying. Temptation's page flies out the door You follow, find yourself at war Watch waterfalls of pity roar You feel to moan but unlike before You discover That you'd just be One more person crying. So don't fear if you hear A foreign sound to your ear It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing. As some warn victory, some downfall Private reasons great or small Can be seen in the eyes of those that call To make all that should be killed to crawl While others say don't hate nothing at all Except hatred. Disillusioned words like bullets bark As human gods aim for their mark Made everything from toy guns that spark To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark It's easy to see without looking too far That not much Is really sacred. While preachers preach of evil fates Teachers teach that knowledge waits Can lead to hundred-dollar plates Goodness hides behind its gates But even the president of the United States Sometimes must have To stand naked. An' though the rules of the road have been lodged It's only people's games that you got to dodge And it's alright, Ma, I can make it. Advertising signs that con you Into thinking you're the one That can do what's never been done That can win what's never been won Meantime life outside goes on All around you. You lose yourself, you reappear You suddenly find you got nothing to fear Alone you stand with nobody near When a trembling distant voice, unclear Startles your sleeping ears to hear That somebody thinks They really found you. A question in your nerves is lit Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy Insure you not to quit To keep it in your mind and not forget That it is not he or she or them or it That you belong to. Although the masters make the rules For the wise men and the fools I got nothing, Ma, to live up to. For them that must obey authority That they do not respect in any degree Who despise their jobs, their destinies Speak jealously of them that are free Cultivate their flowers to be Nothing more than something They invest in. While some on principles baptized To strict party platform ties Social clubs in drag disguise Outsiders they can freely criticize Tell nothing except who to idolize And then say God bless him. While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in. But I mean no harm nor put fault On anyone that lives in a vault But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him. Old lady judges watch people in pairs Limited in sex, they dare To push fake morals, insult and stare While money doesn't talk, it swears Obscenity, who really cares Propaganda, all is phony. While them that defend what they cannot see With a killer's pride, security It blows the minds most bitterly For them that think death's honesty Won't fall upon them naturally Life sometimes Must get lonely. My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards False gods, I scuff At pettiness which plays so rough Walk upside-down inside handcuffs Kick my legs to crash it off Say okay, I have had enough What else can you show me? And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:30:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc, CSNY TOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patti>>i am soooooooooo there and i am soooooooo late for work....a csnyra instead of a jmra (related absence) oh my oh my oh my!!!<< Lol, I had a mk/elh (ticket buying) related absence from work today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:52:50 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC Original Message: - ----------------- From: Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama jlamadoo@sbcglobal.net Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:43:47 -0400 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC >Maybe we can steer this thread back towards music. "If unable to dance", >what would you do? >(It's a reference to "Touch of Gray", a late Grateful Dead song.) Actually, it's not Touch of Grey, but Hell in a Bucket, from the same album, 1987's In the Dark. "There may come a day when I will dance on your grave, If unable to dance I'll still crawl across it, If unable to dance I'll still crawl, If unable to dance, I'll crawl" JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 01:15:31 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Welcome To Asbury Park njc It was an awesome day....priceless event enjoy! _http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1887925_ (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1887925) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:57:49 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: republican mysteries NJC >>Mike, do you really think you know conclusively what is "happening in the U.S.?" I would never assume to be an expert or all knowledgeable about what is happening in Spain or France or any country, even my own sometimes! But I would believe I know more as a native than someone who is not and who has no real experience of my country.<< Hi Kakki, No, I do not know conclusively what is "happening in the U.S", and neither would I claim to be an expert about France, Spain, the UK or the US or anywhere, and yes, I also believe that you as a native know more about the US than I do, and yes, I have very little 'real experience' of the USA. But I can read, and watch films, and listen to people who also live in the USA and whose experience and views are as valid as yours, and I have read, heard and seen much which lead me to ask my question, which I repeat below, and which still has not been answered by anyone. "Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections" Given what's been happening recently in the US, do you really think these reflect present-day US values, or are they goals to be achieved one day in the future, or memories of a golden age in the past? You continue: >>... Maybe Canada, Finland, Sweden and the Netherlands are superior, and I do not have the statistics of people fleeing their homelands and trying to live in those countries, legally or illegally I really think I live in a city that contains some of the most diverse groups of immigrants in the world. I work with immigrants, am friends with immigrants, have had relationships with them and sometimes employ them. Some of my immigrant friends are also from Europe, Australia and Africa. They are all highly skilled and educated and are seeking to live and work here legally by going through the long legal process. They want to be here rather than their homeland. Why would that be? << I have selected, but I think fairly, only a piece of your response and do not dispute anything in that is included here or omitted. I do not, and did not, claim these four countries are superior; but they are countries where there is a high degree of social welfare, a social fabric, high immigration of both unskilled and skilled workers and I would say (while not an expert here either) that these countries could make a good case to be a 'freer' (or at least 'equally free') place to live, thinking only about the right to practice religious beliefs, freedom of the press, a more open immigration policy and other indices of 'freedom'. I have no doubt you have immigrant friends of all types and I have no doubt they are happy (why would they come/stay if they were not?), but living where you do you only see these people; what I'm saying is that there are people like this in many other countries too, such as the countries I mention. In other words, I think you are possibly extrapolating the positive situation you see onto a wider framework and this is preventing you from seeing that other countries have 'positive situations' too and I feel it may also be preventing you from seeing the negative aspects of what I believe is happening to the USA, as mentioned in recent posts here, notably by Debra and others. Best, mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:18:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC Bob Dylan on XM - Preview Stream Very cool...thanks bob, I sent to jeff who is smiling & listening right now! You are so inside! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:41:01 -0700 From: Subject: We're off to see the Wizard (njc) Hey Bree, Did you know that the Wiz was originally written as an allegory against the "evil" Republicans of the time and was representing pro-Democratic populism? No matter - the allegory is wonderful and can be applied to so many truly evil and oppressive elements that always rear their heads. While Baum was partisan at the time, his message is universal. Good vs. evil and the ultimate triumph of good. And for those who believe the concept of evil is only for fairy tales and archaic religious beliefs, well, you are lucky it has never personally affected you and remains a fantastical concept in your lives. I always thought of the Wizard character was a great lesson in learning about those who are perceived to be so powerful and omniscient but really it's just a little man behind a curtain turning up volume knobs and creating smoke and mirrors only to be easily exposed by just a little doggie ;-) Also the concept of the lowly and humble creatures such as the scarecrow, tin man and lion coming to realize they really do have a brain, a heart and courage. Side L.A. trivia note: Baum owned most of what is now Hollywood - had a big ranch there - and the Hollywood and Vine Subway station has a long yellow brick road in his honor ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #160 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------