From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #158 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 25 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 158 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #156 [Holly Gearhart ] Wembley Arena 1983 BBC video DVD anyone? [Moni Kellermann ] Impeaching the President (njc) [] Re: Joni's speech at the Commonwealth Club, April 22, 2005 [Moni Kellerma] Re: decisions, njc PC [LCStanley7@aol.com] njc, CSNY TOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) [Smurf ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: decisions, njc PC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] the vote njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] RE: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:14:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Holly Gearhart Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2006 #156 And this, my friends, is why God/Yaweh,Bhudda et. al., gave us Joni. At least I can tune OUT on words and music that have made sense to me for 40 years. JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 25 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 156 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today ["Jamie's Box of Pai] Re: BUSH njc ["ash" ] Re: decisions, njc [lcstanley7@aol.com] Re: decisions, njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: decisions, njc [Smurf ] Re: decisions, njc [lcstanley7@aol.com] Re: decisions, njc ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: decisions, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: the decider/NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: decisions, njc PC [dsknyc05 ] Re: decisions, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today [J Kendel Johnson Hear Neil's new album for free njc ["Randy Remote" RE: njc, I'm the Decider [dsknyc05 ] Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) [dsknyc05 njc, I'm the Decider ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: njc, I'm the Decider ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) ["bluejr@adelph] csny in winnipeg NJC and some changes [mags h ] nukes njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: nukes njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni's speech at the Commonwealth Club, April 22, 2005 ["Les Irvin" NJC - I'm the Decider (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire - Chuck Brodsky) [OzWoma] Re: decisions, njc PC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: decisions, njc PC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["gene" ] RE: joni mention in ny times editorial section today ["patrick leader" RE: njc, I'm the Decider ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) [] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:47:20 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today Hi Patrick, Yes, the Joni lifts from Shakespeare discussion has been a really interesting one on the list previously... I think Joni quotes WtS mainly because Myrtle quoted Shakespeare when she was teaching her at home, while other mothers quoted the Bible... Other notable liftings are I am as constant as the Northern Star (Julius Caesar) 'A Case of You' Romeo, Romeo (Romeo and Juliet) (Talk to Me) Blood, blood blood (Othello) (Dog Eat Dog) ok, so the last one isn't true, but its a great line from Shakespeare ;o) Jamie Zoob On 23/04/06, patrick leader wrote: > there was an editorial in the sunday 'week in review' section in the new > york times, about shakespeare, with a joni mention: > > "Or that his words would inspire their own honoring thefts: Joni Mitchell > took a glittering simile of his for "That Song About the Midway"; ..." > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/opinion/23moore.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&page > wanted=all > > so i googled to find the original reference and found a direct comparison... > > "It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night > Like a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear; > Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! > > --Romeo and Juliet, I, v, 49 > > This would seem to be the source for a line in the Joni Mitchell > song called "That Song about the Midway": > > I met you on the midway at a fair last year > And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear" > > now i'm thinking i'm going to write the times about 'talk to me' in which > joni makes fun of people who quote shakespeare... > > patrick > > np - underworld, 'jal to tokyo' > - - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 and http://uk.castingcallpro.com/jamie.zubairi - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:56:21 +1000 From: "ash" Subject: Re: BUSH njc > Please watch this again and you will see what I mean. It's his "answer" > to > Helen Thomas's question. > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12437.htm > >Dear Joni's! The other day. I downloaded the film ' Road to 9/11' and the other film from the site, 'Loose change' and took on board, bits of it, just bits Okay I am a sucker for X Files, the JFK conspiracies, that Elvis and Jim Morrison are alive, UFO's were at Rosewell etc I enjoyed West Wing, Commander in Chief, Manchurian Candidate, and others such as Dr Stranglove and Damien was that 2 in the series? I treat most of this as fun, it would be too hard to bear if there was a World Conspiracy for a World Government. !! ..okay there is an eye and a pyarmid on the American dollar and the moon landing was a fake? but I am having this creeping feeling about the idea of crashing planes into buildings to pass certain laws? Could this be true? 1984 was just a silly book! Nah!, even in a Judge Dredd world!! So yesterday I re watched Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 ( with extra features) and this feeling of well, alarm hit me, but again I dismissed it then seeing this clip of Mr Bush tonight......well!! My comfy world is getting a bit of knocking here!! Thanks? Ash - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:14:07 -0400 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: I am still perplexed as to why the visceral hate for Bush..Cheney....I really don't understand. I have been disappointed with some things...government has gotten even bigger under his watch..immigration...(follow the F**king laws of the land!) But I really feel that he did the right thing with Iraq...removing that dictator....killing and scattering the terrorists. Hi Bree, Bush acted hastily and has cost our country lives, money, and relationships with other countries. I think he's a sociopath. He seems to me like an alcoholic who is not in recovery... and "all or nothing" sort of person. It isn't so much a visceral hatred from me but rather finding nothing to like about him. I'll be very glad when he's gone. Love, Laura - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:36:55 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: decisions, njc To tell you the truth ..I'll be glad when he is gone too. I'm hoping the most liberal..far leaning left candidate wins in 2008. My other dream is for both houses to go democratic. Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that would lessen my belief in that. But here's something..maybe he didn't want to make the same mistake as his father...so that forced his hand....all or nut tin when it came to SH. He chose all. Bree >Hi Bree, > >Bush acted hastily and has cost our country lives, money, and relationships >with other countries. I think he's a sociopath. He seems to me like an >alcoholic who is not in recovery... and "all or nothing" sort of person. >It isn't so much a visceral hatred from me but rather finding nothing to >like about him. I'll be very glad when he's gone. > >Love, >Laura - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: To tell you the truth ..I'll be glad when he is gone too. I'm hoping the most liberal..far leaning left candidate wins in 2008. My other dream is for both houses to go democratic. Bree this is WONDERFUL! Marianne is having such a positive influence on you! Well done, Marianne! You know, I've always thought you were much too nice a person to belong to the party of the dark side, so welcome into the light! --Smurf, who has greatly admired Bree since 2001-- but now is just ecstatically happy and very proud of her - - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:12:38 -0400 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: "Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that would lessen my belief in that." Hi Bree, Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to fool people. Love, Laura - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:17:57 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: decisions, njc Original Message: - - ----------------- From: Bree Mcdonough bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:36:55 -0400 To: lcstanley7@aol.com, joni@smoe.org, treegreen1@hotmail.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc >He chose all. I'd seriously doubt if he's even in charge of choosing when to wipe his own ass. The whole show is being run WAY over his head. He's just the dork in the front window. The amazing part is how many people left their brains at the door when they pulled the lever for him, if they had any ability to think critically to begin with. Doubtful. After just seeing George Carlin two nights ago, (not that I needed reminding) I was reminded of just how STUPID the average American voter really is. "I'm the decider!"....Shit, he's almost as dumb as the sheeple who voted for him. JR in NH - - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:54:50 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Kakki, thank you for sharing The Euston Manifesto ( http://eustonmanifesto.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1 2&Itemid=1). I'm still reading and digesting it. Bob, you made some great comments. For now, and regarding this: - - -- 10) *A new internationalism.* We stand for an internationalist politics and the reform of international law  in the interests of global democratization and global development. Humanitarian intervention, when necessary, is not a matter of disregarding sovereignty, but of lodging this properly within the "common life" of all peoples. If in some minimal sense a state protects the common life of its people (if it does not torture, murder and slaughter its own civilians, and meets their most basic needs of life), then its sovereignty is to be respected. But if the state itself violates this common life in appalling ways, its claim to sovereignty is forfeited and there is a duty upon the international community of intervention and rescue. Once a threshold of inhumanity has been crossed, there is a "responsibility to protect". - - -- This is all fine and well, and I don't disagree with it. But I think we're going to be damn busy taking care of everyone who has been the victim of inhumanity. DAMN busy. More later ... Lori - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:08:58 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote, of the Prez: > But here's something..maybe he didn't want to make the same mistake as his father... What mistake would that be? Listening to the generals? Yes, GHWBush might've screwed up Gulf 1 by not taking out Saddam, but the stated mission didn't include taking him out. It should have, but it didn't. So I don't know what mistake Bush Sr. made that Junior didn't want to repeat. At least Senior LISTENED to his military. As much as I generally disliked Bush Sr., during Gulf 1 I actually considered that I might vote for him when reelection time came around. Then again, by the time the election rolled around I was reminded about all the OTHER things that were wrong on his watch, so I ended up not doing so. My thoughts on why some Repubs cling to this burning Bush, or any Republican president, really: they're desperate for a return to the 1950s when things were more black and white (oh, were they ever! in more ways than just metaphorically) and more "certain." Everyone knew his or her role, his or her place, and no one had to THINK about much of anything. Like life on a black & white 1950s sitcom or something. Not that anyone's life was really like that, but Repubs seem to wish for that. I know, I know ... I'm speaking in generalities ... but that's still the impression I get. I would like to have a president I could feel confidence in too, but Bush ain't it. (Far, far from it.) Lori - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:11:02 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: the decider/NJC Mike H wrote: > When I saw George on the news saying "I am the decider", I was up with both arms saying "you go George". I kinda got fired up. > I kinda liked it. Thank you, Mike, for reminding me why I don't watch TV anymore. Lori, who really did stop watching TV around the middle of January - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:15:26 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC - - --- lcstanley7@aol.com wrote: > Bree wrote: > > "Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that > would lessen my belief in that." > > Hi Bree, > > Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do > cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to > fool people. Yes, exactly. Sociopaths are masters of manipulation. Even when there's a tear in Bush's eye, there's also the smirk and that squinty-eyed sly sideways look. He is so obviously NOT genuine it's crazy that anyone falls for his act. A friend told me about a book by Justin A. Frank called "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President." It describes Bush as a sadistic sociopath. Not a surprise to me. His glee at the dead bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons being displayed made that obvious. I've seen the author interviewed and been tempted to get the book, and the entries on Amazon are interesting, but I haven't read it. Just watching Bush I already know how sick he is. But I mention the book in case anyone here is interested in reading it. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: decisions, njc - - --- lcstanley7@aol.com wrote: > Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do > cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to > fool people. > Definitely. That's one thing they're very good at - pretending to think and feel like "normal" people (whatever "normal" is), in order to get their way with them - whatever it takes. Catherine Toronto - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today Hey, Patrick. Thanks for pointing out the Joni editorial reference. I just reread the lyrics to Talk to Me. Can you explain where/how you draw the conclusion that Joni is making fun of people who quote Shakespeare? J patrick leader wrote: there was an editorial in the sunday 'week in review' section in the new york times, about shakespeare, with a joni mention: "Or that his words would inspire their own honoring thefts: Joni Mitchell took a glittering simile of his for "That Song About the Midway"; ..." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/opinion/23moore.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&page wanted=all so i googled to find the original reference and found a direct comparison... "It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night Like a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear; Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! - - --Romeo and Juliet, I, v, 49 This would seem to be the source for a line in the Joni Mitchell song called "That Song about the Midway": I met you on the midway at a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear" now i'm thinking i'm going to write the times about 'talk to me' in which joni makes fun of people who quote shakespeare... patrick np - underworld, 'jal to tokyo' - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:25:46 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Hear Neil's new album for free njc from Punmaster's Musicwire: Neil Young's newly recorded protest album "Living With War," including a song calling for the impeachment of President Bush, will be posted for free Internet streaming next week, his label said on Friday. Starting April 28, fans can log onto Young's Web site, www.neilyoung.com, and listen to the 10-track collection in its entirety, free of charge, said Bill Bentley, a spokesman for Warner Music Group's Reprise Records. The album will first become commercially available as a digital download beginning May 2, "and we plan to get it into retail stores as soon after that as we can get them manufactured," Bentley said. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: RE: njc, I'm the Decider - - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Bush...I always have felt..still do...even though no > WMD"S found..(funneled > into Syria..perhaps?).(even though everyone thought > Saddam had them) No, they didn't. That's more administration garbage. The Bushies ignored the reports that didn't fit in with their plans. There wasn't enough evidence for their Iraq invasion plans, so they made some up. Hussein buying yellowcake from Niger is the most obvious example of that. > and his breaking UN resolution (twelve in all) time and time > again.....that > sometimes a bully just has to be taken out...a > sadistic one at that. That describes Dubya perfectly. And, yes, he does need to be taken out... Democrats winning the majority in November of at least one house of Congress will do that. > In 1998 Clinton declared Saddam Hussein a threat. So what? Talk about schoolyard behavior... HE did it HE did it Don't look at me! > I can't remember the exact > wording or the decree but SH was declared > hostile...a threat. Clinton didn't invade and kill and maim thousands of people! > Joe Wilson? Well...if a person is telling out > right lies about > you.. Where do you get the idea that he was telling lies? He was sent to find out about the claim of Hussein trying to buy yellowcake from Niger, and he found out that Hussein was not doing that, and that's the report Joe Wilson gave. So where's the lie? The claim that Hussein was trying to do that started with some Italian "official" papers, that were such lousy forgeries no one believed them. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Karl Rove planted those fake documents in Italy. In college he was known as a dirty dealer. He was probably doing dirty tricks in kindergarten. > wouldn't want to get the truth out? So > leaking....and disseminating > truth are two different things. What we all have to > remember is the > president..any president.. IS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.. > so when he decides to > release things to the press...he has the right to do > so. So then release it to the press! Don't go mucking around giving partial information to administration shills in the media. And in the process, name a CIA agent! > Remember...the > reason Scooter Libby was indicted wasn't for outing > Joe Wilson's wife The prosecutor isn't finished yet, so don't get too === message truncated === Ta! Holly - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:28:29 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Wembley Arena 1983 BBC video DVD anyone? I got a DVD copy from Cassy and now want to forward it to anybody else interested in this video DVD. I will forward it to anyone who sends me her/his snail mail address first. I made a new cover for my own copy and will include it with the disc that I received. You can take a look at the back cover for track list details: http://moni-kellermann.de/images/wembley83dvd_back.jpg moni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:33:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Holly Gearhart Subject: [none] [input] [input] [input] [input] And this, my friends, is why God/Yaweh,Bhudda et. al., gave us Joni. At least I can tune OUT on words and music that have made sense to me for 40 years. Ta! Holly - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:42:15 -0700 From: Subject: Impeaching the President (njc) Here's the line of succession if Bush is removed from office through impeachment: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa010298.htm That would make it Cheney, then Dennis Hastert, then Ted Stevens, then Condi. Looks like old Neil has lots more material to mine for a few years. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:13:50 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Joni's speech at the Commonwealth Club, April 22, 2005 Les Irvin schrieb: > The transcript of Joni's talk at "An Earth Day Celebration with Joni > Mitchell" at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco on April 22, 2005 is now > online. > > http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/05/05-04mitchell-intro.html If you would like to save a copy of the audio recording of Joni's talk for offline listening, right-click the following link: http://audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/05-04mitchell-complete.rm (file size 7MB, 58:34 minutes) Enjoy! moni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:59:04 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC Bree wrote: I'm saying that sociopaths don't feel empathy for their fellow human beings. Hi Bree, Yes, I knew what you were trying to say. I think you knew what I was trying to say too. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:09:00 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, CSNY TOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woke up, it was a Chelsea CSNY morning!!!!! I can barely type.....tickets go on sale at noon today. link patti link patti post the link..... fingers don't fail me now..... http://www.csny.tickets.musictoday.com/CSNY/calendar.aspx all four of them!!!!! talk about a fab four! i am soooooooooo there and i am soooooooo late for work....a csnyra instead of a jmra (related absence) oh my oh my oh my!!! jones beach, baybeeeeeee!!!!!! and they're starting off in magsville-winnipeg. hi mags!!!!! xoxoxo! mary -- call me! we're not missing this one, babe! keep on rockin' in the free world! love, patti p, out of her ever-lovin' mind just at this moment of the world NPIMH: Everybody, I love you Everybody, I do Though your heart is in anger I need your love to get through When I tell you I love you You can believe that it's true Everybody, I love you Everybody, I do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:34:29 -0500 From: djp Subject: Re: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC At 01:16 AM 4/25/2006, Bree Mcdonough wrote: >I mean we were happy the bad (guy)witch met her fate...and along with >Dorothy and the Munchkins we were actually glad ..gleefully happy that she >..well..DIED. Then some of us grew up. djp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:17:11 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Kakki said: >>I think you can kind of boil down the basic of "democratic norms." Liberty, Equality & Fraternity. Pluralist rather than one-party systems. Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections, representative government and so on. You can't tell me that some people like living under oppressive and backward regimes because "it is their culture" when we have millions of people breaking through our border every year. They are not just the Latinos, but also thousands of Chinese, Korean, Irish, Filipino and other groups from all over the world that are giving up everything back home and risking deportation to be here. Whatever the criticisms of the U.S. we are still the most free country in the world in terms of individual freedoms and opportunities for a chance at a better life and prosperity vs. stagnation and "stay in your classism." If all these millions liked the systems in their home country so much, why not stay there?<< Just two points, Kakki,: 1. "Whatever the criticisms of the U.S. we are still the most free country in the world in terms of individual freedoms and opportunities for a chance at a better life and prosperity vs. stagnation and "stay in your classism." This sounds to me like a mantra, not an objective, realistic assessment of the USA. You mention Chinese, Korean, Irish and Filipinos, but where are the Canadians, Swedish, Finns and Dutch people flocking to the US? I haven't heard about that. You select some countries but ignore others. I think most of the countries I mention would dispute your claim that the USA is the most free country. 2. "Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections" Given what's been happening recently in the US, do you really think these reflect present-day US values, or are they goals to be achieved one day in the future, or memories of a golden age in the past? mike in barcelona np Ron Blake - Sonic Tonic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:41 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC Debra wrote> A friend told me about a book by Justin A. Frank called "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President."< Syncro alert! That is the same Dr. I was referring to in the link I posted (probably within moments of you posting yours!) http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/newsletter/04.24.2006.html Debra wrote> After thinking about it for, oh, three seconds, here are some specific reasons, what Bushco has said versus the truth:< Wow, great post debra! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:31:36 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Original Message: - ----------------- From: kbhla@sbcglobal.net Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:58:34 -0700 To: scjoniguy@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org, lrfye58@gmail.com Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) >For one thing many on the left have nothing but contempt for any >notions of "patriotism" and always seem to loudly reject it as "fascist." >But then they get all upset if someone calls them "unpatriotic." Why would >they care to be called "patriotic" anyway if is something they revile? Because the red-staters, through their ignorance, have highjacked the term 'patriotism' by using it to describe their feelings of jingoism, which most on the left, that I know of, do not share. As soon as one of those flag-waving, gun-toting, Nascar-loving red-staters can explain the difference between honest support for their country (patriotism) and their brand of my-country-right-or-wrong, love-it-or-leave it (jingoism), THEN I might have a small bit of respect for them. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, you're either on the side of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Rush Limbaugh. It's as simple as that. Either you care about the poor and disadvantaged of the world, or you just think "I've got mine, f*%k everyone else". JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:35:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, I'm the Decider Bree wrote> I'm not going to try to count heads but didn't most of the senate vote in favor of going into Iraq? And your candidate for president last time.. didn't he vote to invade... as well as his VP?< I agree with you on this one Bree... it is why many people are disgusted with a lot of our democratic leadership... in spite of the fact that congress, as well as the citizens of the usa, were lied to about what was going on in iraq, some of the democratic leaders used their god given intelligence to pay attention to those experts on the middle east who said attacking iraq would be folly... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:39:13 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Touchi, Mike! Very good points. JR in NH Original Message: - ----------------- From: mike pritchard ink08@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:17:11 +0200 To: joni@smoe.org, kbhla@sbcglobal.net, dsknyc05@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Just two points, Kakki,: 1. "Whatever the criticisms of the U.S. we are still the most free country in the world in terms of individual freedoms and opportunities for a chance at a better life and prosperity vs. stagnation and "stay in your classism." This sounds to me like a mantra, not an objective, realistic assessment of the USA. You mention Chinese, Korean, Irish and Filipinos, but where are the Canadians, Swedish, Finns and Dutch people flocking to the US? I haven't heard about that. You select some countries but ignore others. I think most of the countries I mention would dispute your claim that the USA is the most free country. 2. "Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections" Given what's been happening recently in the US, do you really think these reflect present-day US values, or are they goals to be achieved one day in the future, or memories of a golden age in the past? mike in barcelona np Ron Blake - Sonic Tonic - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:06:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: patriotism njc >For one thing many on the left have nothing but contempt for any notions of "patriotism" and always seem to loudly reject it as "fascist." < kakki, since this administration has moved so far right, many who were once centrists are now considered 'left'... it seems that you often lump all of those on the left into one group & often refer to those on the extreme left in your posts... so let's forget about those at the extreme because they are all wacky (left & right)... its just that many feel that the extreme right is pretty much in power right now & may be considering nuclear war... back to patriotism... after 9/11 there was a huge reaction of violent anger in response to the attacks... & jingoism & racism reared their ugly heads... many of these people considered themselves patriotic & it was a very very scary time to be among those who felt we needed to look at the roots of what had happened rather than to bomb them back to the stone age... it is the contempt for this knee jerk emotional self proclaimed patriotism that so many take issue with... the fact that this word was ever used to attack & disenfranchise those who were not buying into the bush/cheney lies is a real shame... >But then they get all upset if someone calls them "unpatriotic." Why would they care to be called "patriotic" anyway if is something they revile?< I hope the above sentence clarifies your question more... it is false patriotism (my president right or wrong...he's the president so he is right, etc) that is reviled... >But to hook up with groups and radicals and nuts who truly hate our country and our system to make their point does nothing but detract from their aims and turns people way off.< the vast majority on the left (many who used to be center!) love this country & are horrified at the current administration who, by their actions not their words, show so little regard for the citizens they serve... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) Debra, I am always in awe of your ability to articulate my own rage, hope and fears. The US would be in a much better place if we had someone of your caliber either in office or on the airwaves. WIth great admiration, --Smurf dsknyc05 wrote: --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > I am still perplexed as to why the visceral hate for > Bush..Cheney....I > really don't understand. I sometimes wonder myself why I think Bush is such a bad president. His tight-lipped squinty eyed looks never appealed to me, and my assumption that those "looks" resulted from a wicked heart have been, unfortunately for us all, proven true. But, I could live with his ugly expressions if what he said (which usually sounds pretty good and what his supporters repeat like parrots) matched what he did. They rarely do. I look at actions as the truth. My disagreement with Bush's policies has grown into hatred of him and his entire administration because of their manipulation of the truth and people (including his supporters), and the result is that many people are not merely disadvantaged, but dead or maimed, for no honorable or honest reason. I hate the Bushies for their self-serving lying evil behavior that is based largely on making people afraid, of each other, of the future, of other countries, of everything. Be afraid (vote for us). And also for their chronic unwillingness to take responsibility for what happens. The Bushies ALWAYS blame someone else. Those are my general reasons. After thinking about it for, oh, three seconds, here are some specific reasons, what Bushco has said versus the truth: New Orleans "do whatever it takes" speech: levies not ready for upcoming hurricane season, citizens still disbursed, no housing, little health care (Bush's first action after his first visit to New Orleans was to rescind the existing "fair wages" bill so that workers there would be paid less (so their employers could have bigger profits -- really, how much money does Halliburton and its stockholders, which includes Cheney, need?)) (That's similar to Bush visiting Atlanta to "honor" Dr. King, and then when he returned to Washington, first thing he did was appoint a racist recess judge, thereby bypassing Congressional approval, which that judge would not have gotten... his racist attitude didn't appeal to the Democrats.) (That's similar to Bush visiting veterans at Walter Reed hospital and first thing he does when he gets back to his office is cut their health benefits.) (See a pattern here? There's a photo op and while all eyes are on that, the action taken is completely the opposite and unpublicized; it takes reading way-inside-the-paper articles to learn of such actions.) biggest deficit in history; Bush has borrowed/spent more between 2001 and now than all the other presidents combined blame deficit on 9/11: no, blame it mostly on the tax cuts that Bush insists are so beneficial to the economy; the deficits started BEFORE 9/11 tell us all to be very afraid so we'll vote for the Bushies: so far alerts have worked, now that Karl Rove is putting all his attention to getting the Repubs elected again in November (as though he ever stopped working toward that), well, maybe just alerts won't work this time tell us how well they are protecting us: meanwhile do not secure the ports and the chemical factories; invade Iraq and add to the numbers and fury of people who want to do the U.S. harm "Get him dead or alive" -- and then leave bin Laden alone so the U.S. can invade Iraq Link Hussein and bin Laden, sometimes slyly, but all lies, and evidence now coming out shows they knew they were lying "concern about the troops" but not enough funding for appropriate body armor, troops buying their own armor, and attaching metal themselves to lightweight trucks to try to protect themselves; cutting veterans' health benefits; cutting veterans' education benefits (I learned that two days ago from a veteran whose tuition just skyrocketed so much he couldn't continue his education); dishonor them by sending their bodies home as commercial freight on cheapest flights; firing people who took pictures (a year ago?) of flag draped caskets "our actions are based on what generals tell us" -- if generals don't say what Bushies want to hear, they are demoted or fired or otherwise disappeared "we don't do torture" -- we let other countries do it for us; when that doesn't work and photos are shown, we let the lowest soldiers on the totem pole do our dirty work and then blame them; and ignore the memo to Rumsfeld that says torture is okay "guantanemo is a well run place" -- why aren't inspectors allowed in to see it all, not just the "showpiece" areas? Allowing an administration supporter to be part of the press corps at briefings and toss Scott McClellan softball pro-Bushie questions, and barring from such briefings reporters who are too challenging (that is, reporters who want honest answers); Helen who'd-been-there-forever was barred for a while, and probably will be again. "stock market is doing well" -- sure, for now, and especially for the wealthiest people, until the economy totally tanks; until then it's doing well even for some workers, assuming those workers aren't being ripped off a la Enron, and assuming they will continue to have a job in the U.S., which fewer and fewer workers can assume these days biggest lender to the U.S. to finance the biggest in history deficit = Communist China second biggest U.S. company (recently, now after Exxon) is Wal-Mart, with all its factories in China (don't totalitarian governments have a history of nationalizing factories? -- looks to me like that would be a big problem for U.S. economy) Bush's messianic belief that he is meant to bring freedom to the world; ignoring slaughter in Africa, Communist China's oppression of its citizens; nuclear weapons and oppression in North Korea concern about immigrants; yeah, right -- let's make sure the Bush friendly corporations get some more cheap labor "any leakers in my administration" comments when Bush is the source of the leaks -- so, if he kills a guy (well, other than all those people he's killing in Iraq and letting die in New Orleans), he can say he's president so it's okay? That seems to be the case clean skies act that allows industries to pollute more healthy forest act that gives loggers access to previously protected forests "U.S. addicted to oil" -- right, we should all drive less even if that's the only way to get to work; meanwhile Bush's energy act benefits the oil companies, with token attention given to alternative energy sources; billions in profits being made by the oil companies while gas prices go up and up no child left behind education act that is not given adequate federal funding so it punishes rather than helps; includes unpublicized requirement that schools give military personal info about their students new drug bill that benefits the pharmaceutical companies; among other problems, leaves a big gap after a certain dollar amount so that seniors will have to pay full price for those drugs (at the highest price because the bill also makes it illegal to purchase the same but cheaper drugs from Canada, or for insurance or groups to negotiate for lower prices) mission accomplished and thousands still being killed and maimed WMD; chemical making trucks; mushroom cloud -- all said when the Bushies KNEW they were lying and ignoring evidence that did not support their goal of invading Iraq; with new evidence coming out, their often-repeated excuse of "other people thought that too" is crumbling tax cuts -- Bush telling us how they benefit mostly the middle class when truth is 40% benefits go to the weathiest 1%; tax cuts are starving the government of funds for needed services claiming that spending on social services is reason for deficit (after war spending); ignoring effect of huge tax cuts for corporations and wealthiest citizens faith based funding from the government adding to the blur between state and church; funding goes to Christian churches, not to other faith based organizations With his insistence on not taking the option of a nuclear attack against Iran off the table, it looks to me like self-described born again Christian Bush is leading us as quickly as he can toward Armageddon. He and his base might think the Rapture is a good idea. I don't. I think he and they are nuts. With the Rapture in mind and Bush and his followers thinking he's sent from God, it's no wonder he's not concerned about the long-term consequences of his actions. And it explains his focus on the Middle East. Until Israel is "made whole" the Rapture will not come. Doesn't explain Cheney's evilness, unless he's also an Evangelical and just keeps quieter about it than Bush does. Might be; the "base" likes Cheney for some mysterious-to-me reason. Otherwise, maybe he has a brain tumor or something. There are probably even more reasons for thinking Bush is a bad president that I've forgotten for the moment. These reasons are horror enough. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2"/min or less. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:13:34 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) That canard should have been disproved a long time ago, certainly on September 11th. Those on the right have nothing but contempt for any opinions that differ from theirs and thus judge everything that isn't their way as "unpatriotic," rejecting it loudly and calling it "socialist," "communist," "anti-American," etc. Vince > >For one thing many on the left have nothing but contempt for any > >notions of "patriotism" and always seem to loudly reject it as "fascist." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:17:19 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bree Mcdonough Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:16 AM To: joni@smoe.org; treegreen1@hotmail.com Subject: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC It just hit me...the most sociopathic manipulation EVER to be perpetrated on the masses. Yes..ding dong the witch is dead the which old witch the wicked witch is dead..ding dong the wicked witch is dead... Bree wrote: PS. I'm thinking about how if Bush died tonight ..you all would be dancing in the streets tomorrow. __________________________________________________________________________ Bree, I think that this is not true. I think if Bush died we would all be in shock and would mourn him in the same way we would any President who dies in office. I was no fan of Reagan, but when he was shot, I was horrified. To suggest that this is so is and unfair characterization, indeed a caricature, of the sentiments of us liberals. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:18:18 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC Hi Kate... I just read an interview at EIR (Executive Intelligence Review) from August 20, 2004 with the good doctor. It does look like an interesting read. ..I must admit. After reading the interview ..I thought ..I wonder if he ever used psychoanalysis on our previous president? Wouldn't that make a interesting read?!! On this president...he says...So if Cheney left, I think he would zone out and he would be taken care of by the women in his life...Karen Hughes...Laura Bush....and Condi Rice. And they really do take care of him." Then I thought about president Clinton's women...the hundreds of them...and especially the one..Juanita Broderick was her name..who was told to put ice on it (meaning her injured bleeding lip after the assault) after he had his way with her in a hotel room in Little Rock while governor. I wonder which book would be the most interesting...and accurate? Bree >Debra wrote> A friend told me about a book by Justin A. Frank >called "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the >President."< > >Syncro alert! That is the same Dr. I was referring to in the link I posted >(probably within moments of you posting yours!) >http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/newsletter/04.24.2006.html > >Debra wrote> After thinking about it for, oh, >three seconds, here are some specific reasons, what >Bushco has said versus the truth:< > >Wow, great post debra! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:30:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: decisions, njc PC Hi Bree, Psychoanalysis of Clinton would be interesting I agree... my own take on Clinton is that he is a sexoholic... I think he needs help too! fyi I was disgusted at Clinton's behaviors (but disgusted with impeachment efforts more)... most importantly, Clinton is not in power right now & starting what could be ww3 >I wonder which book would be the most interesting...and accurate? Bree< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:31:07 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: RE: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC I just caught this. Please know that I am being incredibly restrained in my anger at reading such a statement. There is no chance for dialogue when people want to wallow in their hate while crying about hate. I shall choose to believe it was a mistake and that the unnamed (by me) author did not mean that at all and was horrified to see that sentiment ttached to her/his name. Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- > > PS. I'm thinking about how if Bush died tonight ..you all would be dancing in the streets tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:32:12 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: the vote njc On this one, I disagree. The resolution was not to invade Iraq. The resolution was to approve use of force if certain conditions were not met. The administration promptly took it as a vote to authorise immediate invasion, which it was not. There has never been a vote on whether to invade Iraq. Was it a weasel resolution? Of course it was. Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, and other normally decent Senators should have known what Bush was going to do with the resolution. Two of those three hurt themselves badly with some constituencies (Edwards get a pass on that for the most part). We are still waiting for those conditions to be met/not met/acted upon (such as a UN authorization - remember all Bush's lies about seeking a second resolution?) which is why Senators who voted for the resolution are free to criticize the actual invasion. And I don't think anyone can say anything good about the execution from any perspective other than those who support terrorism. Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Kate Bennett" > Bree wrote> I'm not going to try to count heads but didn't most of the > senate vote in favor of going into Iraq? And your candidate for president > last time.. didn't he vote to invade... as well as his VP?< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:27:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Wizard of OZ with PC NJC Well, of course - it's like here at work, where I've been a lone voice in the wilderness against Bush's leadership for a long time. People will ask me "Gee Bob, I guess you're happy now that Bush's approval rating is in the crapper" and my standard reply to those kinds of comments is "Hell no, I wish he was doing a GOOD job and his approval rating was 100%". And I've never seen any death wishes against him, just wishes for his political demise. Oh, and by the way Richard, thanks for the link to the Springsteen stream, I listened to it a number of times and am planning on picking it up today. I only hope the one I buy at Earshot doesn't have that annoying lady chiming in every 2 minutes with "hear it here first on sneak peek". Bob NP: Joni, "Cool Water" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. 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