From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #156 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 25 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 156 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today ["Jamie's Box of Pai] Re: BUSH njc ["ash" ] Re: decisions, njc [lcstanley7@aol.com] Re: decisions, njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: decisions, njc [Smurf ] Re: decisions, njc [lcstanley7@aol.com] Re: decisions, njc ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: decisions, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: the decider/NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: decisions, njc PC [dsknyc05 ] Re: decisions, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today [J Kendel Johnson ] Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) [dsknyc05 ] RE: njc, I'm the Decider ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) ["bluejr@adelph] csny in winnipeg NJC and some changes [mags h ] nukes njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: nukes njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni's speech at the Commonwealth Club, April 22, 2005 ["Les Irvin" ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["gene" ] RE: joni mention in ny times editorial section today ["patrick leader" ] Re: decisions, njc PC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Republican mysteries (njc) [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:47:20 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today Hi Patrick, Yes, the Joni lifts from Shakespeare discussion has been a really interesting one on the list previously... I think Joni quotes WtS mainly because Myrtle quoted Shakespeare when she was teaching her at home, while other mothers quoted the Bible... Other notable liftings are I am as constant as the Northern Star (Julius Caesar) 'A Case of You' Romeo, Romeo (Romeo and Juliet) (Talk to Me) Blood, blood blood (Othello) (Dog Eat Dog) ok, so the last one isn't true, but its a great line from Shakespeare ;o) Jamie Zoob On 23/04/06, patrick leader wrote: > there was an editorial in the sunday 'week in review' section in the new > york times, about shakespeare, with a joni mention: > > "Or that his words would inspire their own honoring thefts: Joni Mitchell > took a glittering simile of his for "That Song About the Midway"; ..." > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/opinion/23moore.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&page > wanted=all > > so i googled to find the original reference and found a direct comparison... > > "It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night > Like a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear; > Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! > > --Romeo and Juliet, I, v, 49 > > This would seem to be the source for a line in the Joni Mitchell > song called "That Song about the Midway": > > I met you on the midway at a fair last year > And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear" > > now i'm thinking i'm going to write the times about 'talk to me' in which > joni makes fun of people who quote shakespeare... > > patrick > > np - underworld, 'jal to tokyo' > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 and http://uk.castingcallpro.com/jamie.zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:56:21 +1000 From: "ash" Subject: Re: BUSH njc > Please watch this again and you will see what I mean. It's his "answer" > to > Helen Thomas's question. > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12437.htm > >Dear Joni's! The other day. I downloaded the film ' Road to 9/11' and the other film from the site, 'Loose change' and took on board, bits of it, just bits Okay I am a sucker for X Files, the JFK conspiracies, that Elvis and Jim Morrison are alive, UFO's were at Rosewell etc I enjoyed West Wing, Commander in Chief, Manchurian Candidate, and others such as Dr Stranglove and Damien was that 2 in the series? I treat most of this as fun, it would be too hard to bear if there was a World Conspiracy for a World Government. !! ..okay there is an eye and a pyarmid on the American dollar and the moon landing was a fake? but I am having this creeping feeling about the idea of crashing planes into buildings to pass certain laws? Could this be true? 1984 was just a silly book! Nah!, even in a Judge Dredd world!! So yesterday I re watched Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 ( with extra features) and this feeling of well, alarm hit me, but again I dismissed it then seeing this clip of Mr Bush tonight......well!! My comfy world is getting a bit of knocking here!! Thanks? Ash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:14:07 -0400 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: I am still perplexed as to why the visceral hate for Bush..Cheney....I really don't understand. I have been disappointed with some things...government has gotten even bigger under his watch..immigration...(follow the F**king laws of the land!) But I really feel that he did the right thing with Iraq...removing that dictator....killing and scattering the terrorists. Hi Bree, Bush acted hastily and has cost our country lives, money, and relationships with other countries. I think he's a sociopath. He seems to me like an alcoholic who is not in recovery... and "all or nothing" sort of person. It isn't so much a visceral hatred from me but rather finding nothing to like about him. I'll be very glad when he's gone. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:36:55 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: decisions, njc To tell you the truth ..I'll be glad when he is gone too. I'm hoping the most liberal..far leaning left candidate wins in 2008. My other dream is for both houses to go democratic. Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that would lessen my belief in that. But here's something..maybe he didn't want to make the same mistake as his father...so that forced his hand....all or nut tin when it came to SH. He chose all. Bree >Hi Bree, > >Bush acted hastily and has cost our country lives, money, and relationships >with other countries. I think he's a sociopath. He seems to me like an >alcoholic who is not in recovery... and "all or nothing" sort of person. >It isn't so much a visceral hatred from me but rather finding nothing to >like about him. I'll be very glad when he's gone. > >Love, >Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: To tell you the truth ..I'll be glad when he is gone too. I'm hoping the most liberal..far leaning left candidate wins in 2008. My other dream is for both houses to go democratic. Bree this is WONDERFUL! Marianne is having such a positive influence on you! Well done, Marianne! You know, I've always thought you were much too nice a person to belong to the party of the dark side, so welcome into the light! --Smurf, who has greatly admired Bree since 2001-- but now is just ecstatically happy and very proud of her - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:12:38 -0400 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote: "Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that would lessen my belief in that." Hi Bree, Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to fool people. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:17:57 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: decisions, njc Original Message: - ----------------- From: Bree Mcdonough bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:36:55 -0400 To: lcstanley7@aol.com, joni@smoe.org, treegreen1@hotmail.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc >He chose all. I'd seriously doubt if he's even in charge of choosing when to wipe his own ass. The whole show is being run WAY over his head. He's just the dork in the front window. The amazing part is how many people left their brains at the door when they pulled the lever for him, if they had any ability to think critically to begin with. Doubtful. After just seeing George Carlin two nights ago, (not that I needed reminding) I was reminded of just how STUPID the average American voter really is. "I'm the decider!"....Shit, he's almost as dumb as the sheeple who voted for him. JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:54:50 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Kakki, thank you for sharing The Euston Manifesto ( http://eustonmanifesto.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1 2&Itemid=1). I'm still reading and digesting it. Bob, you made some great comments. For now, and regarding this: - -- 10) *A new internationalism.* We stand for an internationalist politics and the reform of international law  in the interests of global democratization and global development. Humanitarian intervention, when necessary, is not a matter of disregarding sovereignty, but of lodging this properly within the "common life" of all peoples. If in some minimal sense a state protects the common life of its people (if it does not torture, murder and slaughter its own civilians, and meets their most basic needs of life), then its sovereignty is to be respected. But if the state itself violates this common life in appalling ways, its claim to sovereignty is forfeited and there is a duty upon the international community of intervention and rescue. Once a threshold of inhumanity has been crossed, there is a "responsibility to protect". - -- This is all fine and well, and I don't disagree with it. But I think we're going to be damn busy taking care of everyone who has been the victim of inhumanity. DAMN busy. More later ... Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:08:58 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: decisions, njc Bree wrote, of the Prez: > But here's something..maybe he didn't want to make the same mistake as his father... What mistake would that be? Listening to the generals? Yes, GHWBush might've screwed up Gulf 1 by not taking out Saddam, but the stated mission didn't include taking him out. It should have, but it didn't. So I don't know what mistake Bush Sr. made that Junior didn't want to repeat. At least Senior LISTENED to his military. As much as I generally disliked Bush Sr., during Gulf 1 I actually considered that I might vote for him when reelection time came around. Then again, by the time the election rolled around I was reminded about all the OTHER things that were wrong on his watch, so I ended up not doing so. My thoughts on why some Repubs cling to this burning Bush, or any Republican president, really: they're desperate for a return to the 1950s when things were more black and white (oh, were they ever! in more ways than just metaphorically) and more "certain." Everyone knew his or her role, his or her place, and no one had to THINK about much of anything. Like life on a black & white 1950s sitcom or something. Not that anyone's life was really like that, but Repubs seem to wish for that. I know, I know ... I'm speaking in generalities ... but that's still the impression I get. I would like to have a president I could feel confidence in too, but Bush ain't it. (Far, far from it.) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:11:02 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: the decider/NJC Mike H wrote: > When I saw George on the news saying "I am the decider", I was up with both arms saying "you go George". I kinda got fired up. > I kinda liked it. Thank you, Mike, for reminding me why I don't watch TV anymore. Lori, who really did stop watching TV around the middle of January ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:15:26 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC - --- lcstanley7@aol.com wrote: > Bree wrote: > > "Bush a sociopath...could be? He cries...so that > would lessen my belief in that." > > Hi Bree, > > Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do > cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to > fool people. Yes, exactly. Sociopaths are masters of manipulation. Even when there's a tear in Bush's eye, there's also the smirk and that squinty-eyed sly sideways look. He is so obviously NOT genuine it's crazy that anyone falls for his act. A friend told me about a book by Justin A. Frank called "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President." It describes Bush as a sadistic sociopath. Not a surprise to me. His glee at the dead bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons being displayed made that obvious. I've seen the author interviewed and been tempted to get the book, and the entries on Amazon are interesting, but I haven't read it. Just watching Bush I already know how sick he is. But I mention the book in case anyone here is interested in reading it. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: decisions, njc - --- lcstanley7@aol.com wrote: > Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do > cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to > fool people. > Definitely. That's one thing they're very good at - pretending to think and feel like "normal" people (whatever "normal" is), in order to get their way with them - whatever it takes. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today Hey, Patrick. Thanks for pointing out the Joni editorial reference. I just reread the lyrics to Talk to Me. Can you explain where/how you draw the conclusion that Joni is making fun of people who quote Shakespeare? J patrick leader wrote: there was an editorial in the sunday 'week in review' section in the new york times, about shakespeare, with a joni mention: "Or that his words would inspire their own honoring thefts: Joni Mitchell took a glittering simile of his for "That Song About the Midway"; ..." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/opinion/23moore.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&page wanted=all so i googled to find the original reference and found a direct comparison... "It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night Like a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear; Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! - --Romeo and Juliet, I, v, 49 This would seem to be the source for a line in the Joni Mitchell song called "That Song about the Midway": I met you on the midway at a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear" now i'm thinking i'm going to write the times about 'talk to me' in which joni makes fun of people who quote shakespeare... patrick np - underworld, 'jal to tokyo' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:25:46 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Hear Neil's new album for free njc from Punmaster's Musicwire: Neil Young's newly recorded protest album "Living With War," including a song calling for the impeachment of President Bush, will be posted for free Internet streaming next week, his label said on Friday. Starting April 28, fans can log onto Young's Web site, www.neilyoung.com, and listen to the 10-track collection in its entirety, free of charge, said Bill Bentley, a spokesman for Warner Music Group's Reprise Records. The album will first become commercially available as a digital download beginning May 2, "and we plan to get it into retail stores as soon after that as we can get them manufactured," Bentley said. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: RE: njc, I'm the Decider - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Bush...I always have felt..still do...even though no > WMD"S found..(funneled > into Syria..perhaps?).(even though everyone thought > Saddam had them) No, they didn't. That's more administration garbage. The Bushies ignored the reports that didn't fit in with their plans. There wasn't enough evidence for their Iraq invasion plans, so they made some up. Hussein buying yellowcake from Niger is the most obvious example of that. > and his breaking UN resolution (twelve in all) time and time > again.....that > sometimes a bully just has to be taken out...a > sadistic one at that. That describes Dubya perfectly. And, yes, he does need to be taken out... Democrats winning the majority in November of at least one house of Congress will do that. > In 1998 Clinton declared Saddam Hussein a threat. So what? Talk about schoolyard behavior... HE did it HE did it Don't look at me! > I can't remember the exact > wording or the decree but SH was declared > hostile...a threat. Clinton didn't invade and kill and maim thousands of people! > Joe Wilson? Well...if a person is telling out > right lies about > you.. Where do you get the idea that he was telling lies? He was sent to find out about the claim of Hussein trying to buy yellowcake from Niger, and he found out that Hussein was not doing that, and that's the report Joe Wilson gave. So where's the lie? The claim that Hussein was trying to do that started with some Italian "official" papers, that were such lousy forgeries no one believed them. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Karl Rove planted those fake documents in Italy. In college he was known as a dirty dealer. He was probably doing dirty tricks in kindergarten. > wouldn't want to get the truth out? So > leaking....and disseminating > truth are two different things. What we all have to > remember is the > president..any president.. IS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.. > so when he decides to > release things to the press...he has the right to do > so. So then release it to the press! Don't go mucking around giving partial information to administration shills in the media. And in the process, name a CIA agent! > Remember...the > reason Scooter Libby was indicted wasn't for outing > Joe Wilson's wife The prosecutor isn't finished yet, so don't get too comfortable with that. As Fitzgerald said, you can't find truth when someone's lying to you. And if there was no wrongdoing to hide, why did Libby lie in the first place? > (was > she covert or not? She worked at a CIA front organization, and once her name was known then she and everyone in that organization, and everyone she even talks to now, is in some danger. That CIA "company" had to be completely disbanded. So this Republican crap about whether she was covert or not is just typical garbage meant to confuse and distract the base in order to keep their support. It works disgustingly well. And the distraction about exactly who in the CIA sent him (his wife? ooohhh what a girly man!) is just that... another distraction. Out of curiosity, Bree... where do you get your information? You're parroting the administration's lines and excuses, which sounds like Fox news to me. Does that feel good to you? Do you believe everything anyone tells you? If so, I know of a really nice bridge for sale... Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:42:43 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > I am still perplexed as to why the visceral hate for > Bush..Cheney....I > really don't understand. I sometimes wonder myself why I think Bush is such a bad president. His tight-lipped squinty eyed looks never appealed to me, and my assumption that those "looks" resulted from a wicked heart have been, unfortunately for us all, proven true. But, I could live with his ugly expressions if what he said (which usually sounds pretty good and what his supporters repeat like parrots) matched what he did. They rarely do. I look at actions as the truth. My disagreement with Bush's policies has grown into hatred of him and his entire administration because of their manipulation of the truth and people (including his supporters), and the result is that many people are not merely disadvantaged, but dead or maimed, for no honorable or honest reason. I hate the Bushies for their self-serving lying evil behavior that is based largely on making people afraid, of each other, of the future, of other countries, of everything. Be afraid (vote for us). And also for their chronic unwillingness to take responsibility for what happens. The Bushies ALWAYS blame someone else. Those are my general reasons. After thinking about it for, oh, three seconds, here are some specific reasons, what Bushco has said versus the truth: New Orleans "do whatever it takes" speech: levies not ready for upcoming hurricane season, citizens still disbursed, no housing, little health care (Bush's first action after his first visit to New Orleans was to rescind the existing "fair wages" bill so that workers there would be paid less (so their employers could have bigger profits -- really, how much money does Halliburton and its stockholders, which includes Cheney, need?)) (That's similar to Bush visiting Atlanta to "honor" Dr. King, and then when he returned to Washington, first thing he did was appoint a racist recess judge, thereby bypassing Congressional approval, which that judge would not have gotten... his racist attitude didn't appeal to the Democrats.) (That's similar to Bush visiting veterans at Walter Reed hospital and first thing he does when he gets back to his office is cut their health benefits.) (See a pattern here? There's a photo op and while all eyes are on that, the action taken is completely the opposite and unpublicized; it takes reading way-inside-the-paper articles to learn of such actions.) biggest deficit in history; Bush has borrowed/spent more between 2001 and now than all the other presidents combined blame deficit on 9/11: no, blame it mostly on the tax cuts that Bush insists are so beneficial to the economy; the deficits started BEFORE 9/11 tell us all to be very afraid so we'll vote for the Bushies: so far alerts have worked, now that Karl Rove is putting all his attention to getting the Repubs elected again in November (as though he ever stopped working toward that), well, maybe just alerts won't work this time tell us how well they are protecting us: meanwhile do not secure the ports and the chemical factories; invade Iraq and add to the numbers and fury of people who want to do the U.S. harm "Get him dead or alive" -- and then leave bin Laden alone so the U.S. can invade Iraq Link Hussein and bin Laden, sometimes slyly, but all lies, and evidence now coming out shows they knew they were lying "concern about the troops" but not enough funding for appropriate body armor, troops buying their own armor, and attaching metal themselves to lightweight trucks to try to protect themselves; cutting veterans' health benefits; cutting veterans' education benefits (I learned that two days ago from a veteran whose tuition just skyrocketed so much he couldn't continue his education); dishonor them by sending their bodies home as commercial freight on cheapest flights; firing people who took pictures (a year ago?) of flag draped caskets "our actions are based on what generals tell us" -- if generals don't say what Bushies want to hear, they are demoted or fired or otherwise disappeared "we don't do torture" -- we let other countries do it for us; when that doesn't work and photos are shown, we let the lowest soldiers on the totem pole do our dirty work and then blame them; and ignore the memo to Rumsfeld that says torture is okay "guantanemo is a well run place" -- why aren't inspectors allowed in to see it all, not just the "showpiece" areas? Allowing an administration supporter to be part of the press corps at briefings and toss Scott McClellan softball pro-Bushie questions, and barring from such briefings reporters who are too challenging (that is, reporters who want honest answers); Helen who'd-been-there-forever was barred for a while, and probably will be again. "stock market is doing well" -- sure, for now, and especially for the wealthiest people, until the economy totally tanks; until then it's doing well even for some workers, assuming those workers aren't being ripped off a la Enron, and assuming they will continue to have a job in the U.S., which fewer and fewer workers can assume these days biggest lender to the U.S. to finance the biggest in history deficit = Communist China second biggest U.S. company (recently, now after Exxon) is Wal-Mart, with all its factories in China (don't totalitarian governments have a history of nationalizing factories? -- looks to me like that would be a big problem for U.S. economy) Bush's messianic belief that he is meant to bring freedom to the world; ignoring slaughter in Africa, Communist China's oppression of its citizens; nuclear weapons and oppression in North Korea concern about immigrants; yeah, right -- let's make sure the Bush friendly corporations get some more cheap labor "any leakers in my administration" comments when Bush is the source of the leaks -- so, if he kills a guy (well, other than all those people he's killing in Iraq and letting die in New Orleans), he can say he's president so it's okay? That seems to be the case clean skies act that allows industries to pollute more healthy forest act that gives loggers access to previously protected forests "U.S. addicted to oil" -- right, we should all drive less even if that's the only way to get to work; meanwhile Bush's energy act benefits the oil companies, with token attention given to alternative energy sources; billions in profits being made by the oil companies while gas prices go up and up no child left behind education act that is not given adequate federal funding so it punishes rather than helps; includes unpublicized requirement that schools give military personal info about their students new drug bill that benefits the pharmaceutical companies; among other problems, leaves a big gap after a certain dollar amount so that seniors will have to pay full price for those drugs (at the highest price because the bill also makes it illegal to purchase the same but cheaper drugs from Canada, or for insurance or groups to negotiate for lower prices) mission accomplished and thousands still being killed and maimed WMD; chemical making trucks; mushroom cloud -- all said when the Bushies KNEW they were lying and ignoring evidence that did not support their goal of invading Iraq; with new evidence coming out, their often-repeated excuse of "other people thought that too" is crumbling tax cuts -- Bush telling us how they benefit mostly the middle class when truth is 40% benefits go to the weathiest 1%; tax cuts are starving the government of funds for needed services claiming that spending on social services is reason for deficit (after war spending); ignoring effect of huge tax cuts for corporations and wealthiest citizens faith based funding from the government adding to the blur between state and church; funding goes to Christian churches, not to other faith based organizations With his insistence on not taking the option of a nuclear attack against Iran off the table, it looks to me like self-described born again Christian Bush is leading us as quickly as he can toward Armageddon. He and his base might think the Rapture is a good idea. I don't. I think he and they are nuts. With the Rapture in mind and Bush and his followers thinking he's sent from God, it's no wonder he's not concerned about the long-term consequences of his actions. And it explains his focus on the Middle East. Until Israel is "made whole" the Rapture will not come. Doesn't explain Cheney's evilness, unless he's also an Evangelical and just keeps quieter about it than Bush does. Might be; the "base" likes Cheney for some mysterious-to-me reason. Otherwise, maybe he has a brain tumor or something. There are probably even more reasons for thinking Bush is a bad president that I've forgotten for the moment. These reasons are horror enough. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:17:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc, I'm the Decider Patti P wrote: >I wish the psychiatrists would speak up< Patti, here is an interview with one doc on dubya (scroll to bush on the couch): http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/newsletter/04.24.2006.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:30:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, I'm the Decider Bree> Marianne and I are pretty much on opposite political spectrums ..but not all things. We don't discuss politics too much anymore because we both agreed she ain't changing my mind and I'm sure as hell ain't changing hers. < I admire you both for that... my sis & I are the same way.... for the most part we don't bring up politics... in fact if we do, it is because she brings it up first (that evangelic christian thing she has going on just has to spread the word from time to time... lol) if she brings up the topic I feel free to let it fly... otherwise I let it be... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:14:23 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: RE: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) Original Message: - ----------------- From: dsknyc05 dsknyc05@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:42:43 -0700 (PDT) To: bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org Subject: Talk vs Actions PC NJC (was RE: njc, I'm the Decider) - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > I am still perplexed as to why the visceral hate for > Bush..Cheney....I > really don't understand. Add it to the list. - ---Debra Shea wrote: >There are probably even more reasons for thinking Bush >is a bad president that I've forgotten for the moment. >These reasons are horror enough. But apparently never enough for the sheeple, unable to form a critical thought of their own. JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:39:04 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: csny in winnipeg NJC and some changes i've heard that csny will be performing in winnipeg this summer; apparently just prior the the winnipeg folk festival...some exciting buzz going on in town as a result. not sure that i will be able to geaux but it's cool that the boys will be in town, and perhaps i can meet them for a tea at the airport. ;-) anyway, change is in the wind for this writer, and i may be awol for a little while. not that i am writing that much to the list, but ya know, someone might notice my absence... anywaaay......i will be here for this week, and then not sure.... if you want to know more, just write me off list over the next five days..otherwise... well, i just dont know. mags. p.s. Mia...Im sure you will do a wonderful job on the Wedding Song. congrats on that! let us go then you and i ~t.s.eliot~ I'll keep on moving Things are bound to be improving these days These days- These days I sit on corner stones And count the time in quarter tones to ten, my friend Don't confront me with my failures I had not forgotten them ~jackson browne~ - --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:51:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: nukes njc "Thirteen of the nation's most prominent physicists have written a letter to President Bush, calling U.S. plans to reportedly use nuclear weapons against Iran "gravely irresponsible" and warning that such action would have "disastrous consequences for the security of the United States and the world." The physicists include five Nobel laureates, a recipient of the National Medal of Science and three past presidents of the American Physical Society, the nation's preeminent professional society for physicists."http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/519690/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:22:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: nukes njc Now if only we can get 13 PREACHERS to write to him...the ol' boy don't put much creedence in them witch doctor scientists. Bob NP: The Ditty Bops, "Ooh La La" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:28:53 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Joni's speech at the Commonwealth Club, April 22, 2005 The transcript of Joni's talk at "An Earth Day Celebration with Joni Mitchell" at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco on April 22, 2005 is now online. Also included there is the transcript of the question and answer period after the talk. Many thanks to Andrew Lawton (Chair, Environment and Natural Resources) of Commonwealth for providing us with this important transcript. http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/05/05-04mitchell-intro.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:04:10 EDT From: OzWoman321@aol.com Subject: NJC - I'm the Decider (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire - Chuck Brodsky) Hey, All - Patti P. wrote: > All I can say is "Liar, liar! Pants on fire!" I thought some of you would appreciate the lyrics to Chuck Brodsky's song of the same name, found on his most recent release, Tulips for Lunch - the spoken word piece preceding it is written by my friend Nick Annis, a wonderful songwriter in his own right (http://www.nickannis.com/linthebeginning.html)... http://www.chuckbrodsky.com/lyrics.html#tfl Liar Liar Pants On Fire Liar liar, pants on fire See you squirm, see you perspire Not a word you say is true There's never been one out of you Smoke & mirrors, bait and switch You and your friends are getting rich Picking pockets, pulling strings And other more despicable things Liar Liar, pants on fire Preaching only to the choir Photo op in front of the steeple How did you manage to fool these people? Talk the lingo, dress the part Even put your hand on your heart Bomber jacket, emperor's clothes You can't even reach the end of your nose Liar liar, pants on fire Chain of command doesn't get any higher Orders come down from the top Punish the guy who pushes the mop Throw away the key and forget about bail The likes of you ought to rot in jail Guilty! Guilty of the highest crimes And the lowest ones at the very same time Liar liar, pants on fire Teleprompter, hidden wire Who's this G-d that speaks to you Who would authorize the things you do? Bend the rules, twist the facts Make excuses, cover your tracks Why won't you let anybody see The flag-draped coffins on tv? Liar liar, been found out Whistleblowers talked about How you classify & cook the books For the benefit of a bunch of crooks Susan "Well, something's lost but something's gained in living every day..." ~ Joni Mitchell "I am older now, I know the rise and gradual fall of a daily victory..." ~ Dar Williams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:26:25 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC Debra wrote: "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President." It describes Bush as a sadistic sociopath. Not a surprise to me. His glee at the dead bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons being displayed made that obvious. Hi Debra, Yes, this is a very graphic example of how there is something very wrong with Bush. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:14:47 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC I'm saying that sociopaths don't feel empathy for their fellow human beings. ..Laura. I don't remember seeing the pictures of President Bush looking gleefully at the dead bodies of Hussein's sons. I do recall seeing ALL the sociopaths celebrating around the world on VE-DAY recently on the History channel. The glee in their faces.... the wild celebrating do to the death of Hitler and of course the crush of Nazism. Oh... I remember the sociopath .....MSNBC... Keith Olbermann ....proclaiming with just a hint of glee.." Uday and Qusay are ed-day I'm thinking of all the sociopaths reverie at the dismantling of the Berlin Wall.........I'll be fretting all night thinking about that. Bree ... > > Hi Bree, > > > > Are you saying sociopaths don't cry? Sociopaths do > > cry and sometimes very often... to get their way, to > > fool people. > >Yes, exactly. Sociopaths are masters of manipulation. >Even when there's a tear in Bush's eye, there's also >the smirk and that squinty-eyed sly sideways look. He >is so obviously NOT genuine it's crazy that anyone >falls for his act. > >A friend told me about a book by Justin A. Frank >called "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the >President." It describes Bush as a sadistic sociopath. >Not a surprise to me. His glee at the dead bodies of >Saddam Hussein's sons being displayed made that >obvious. I've seen the author interviewed and been >tempted to get the book, and the entries on Amazon are >interesting, but I haven't read it. Just watching Bush >I already know how sick he is. But I mention the book >in case anyone here is interested in reading it. > >Debra Shea, >in NYC >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:51:42 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC hello, i don't think the glee was about the death of hitler and the crushing of nazism-------rather the glee was for no more fighting, no more risk of dying, no more killing, no more war. nice concept. as for bush, gawd is he stupid. rich and stupid. he's one up on me. gene There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. will rodgers I do recall seeing ALL the sociopaths > celebrating around the world on VE-DAY recently on the History channel. > The glee in their faces.... the wild celebrating do to the death of Hitler > and of course the crush of Nazism. Oh... I remember the sociopath > .....MSNBC... Keith Olbermann ....proclaiming with just a hint of glee.." > Uday and Qusay are ed-day > > > I'm thinking of all the sociopaths reverie at the dismantling of the > Berlin Wall.........I'll be fretting all night thinking about that. > > > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:08:19 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: joni mention in ny times editorial section today hey there j. i guess i think she's making fun of herself, or of the character she's singing. i mean, she takes so many tones trying to get this guy to talk to her. first she's vulgar, trying to be 'one of the guys' drinking too much and pissing in the parking lot. then she talks about how cultured and well-read she is, able to talk about martha or bergman. and when she starts quoting shakespeare, one quote is not enough. this chick (not joni, but the girl in the song) is so insecure, and the pompousness is but a symptom. and i do think joni's sticking a gentle pin in the balloon of her own pretentiousness. with very good humor. 'talk to me' is one of my favorite joni songs, the neediness i identify with, but i love that she laughs at herself and all of us in our neediness, and makes us laugh too. patrick np - silence - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org]On Behalf Of J Kendel Johnson Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:14 PM To: jonilist Subject: Re: joni mention in ny times editorial section today Hey, Patrick. Thanks for pointing out the Joni editorial reference. I just reread the lyrics to Talk to Me. Can you explain where/how you draw the conclusion that Joni is making fun of people who quote Shakespeare? J patrick leader wrote: there was an editorial in the sunday 'week in review' section in the new york times, about shakespeare, with a joni mention: "Or that his words would inspire their own honoring thefts: Joni Mitchell took a glittering simile of his for "That Song About the Midway"; ..." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/opinion/23moore.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&page wanted=all so i googled to find the original reference and found a direct comparison... "It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night Like a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear; Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! - --Romeo and Juliet, I, v, 49 This would seem to be the source for a line in the Joni Mitchell song called "That Song about the Midway": I met you on the midway at a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear" now i'm thinking i'm going to write the times about 'talk to me' in which joni makes fun of people who quote shakespeare... patrick np - underworld, 'jal to tokyo' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 01:14:45 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: njc, I'm the Decider Hi Debra and all... I'm going to only make a few comments because.. frankly..I don't want to bore people. I know they can't delete..but it's pointless to go on and on. > >No, they didn't. That's more administration garbage. >The Bushies ignored the reports that didn't fit in >with their plans. There wasn't enough evidence for >their Iraq invasion plans, so they made some up. >Hussein buying yellowcake from Niger is the most >obvious example of that. I'm not going to try to count heads but didn't most of the senate vote in favor of going into Iraq? And your candidate for president last time.. didn't he vote to invade... as well as his VP? >>Clinton didn't invade and kill and maim thousands of >people! No...he let the thug terrorists gain strength and they in turn act with a in-your-face boldness. >Where do you get the idea that he was telling lies? He >was sent to find out about the claim of Hussein trying >to buy yellowcake from Niger, and he found out that >Hussein was not doing that, and that's the report Joe >Wilson gave. So where's the lie? So who sent him...that is the question? >>So then release it to the press! Don't go mucking >around giving partial information to administration >shills in the media. And in the process, name a CIA >agent! Why was she smiling ear to ear on the cover of Vanity Fair? Maybe she and her husband will be on the cover of Rolling Stone next? >Out of curiosity, Bree... where do you get your >information? You're parroting the administration's >lines and excuses, which sounds like Fox news to me. >Does that feel good to you? Do you believe everything >anyone tells you? If so, I know of a really nice >bridge for sale... Wrong..Debra...I get my news from the all-knowing Rush Limbaugh. But seriously....maybe I am a parrot for the administration but I will always believe the sadistic Hussein had to be removed. So maybe the sociopath Bush was just the guy to do it. One sociopath kind of guy to another .... Bree >Debra Shea, >in NYC >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:52:34 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: decisions, njc PC > I'm thinking of all the sociopaths reverie at the dismantling of the Berlin > Wall.........I'll be fretting all night thinking about that. Okay, that was supposed to satire ... yes? Lori, admittedly just a little lost at the moment ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:58:34 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Republican mysteries (njc) Hi Bob, > I certainly agree that we are in desperate need > of a leader and a legislative body that can unify > our country around the principles that we have in > common, which in fact are many. Yes. I would bet you that most Americans, whether they be labeled Democrat or Republican DO have common values. They are both basically rooted in the culture and ideals of "classic liberalism." The problem, I think, sometimes is that a lot of Democrats and Republicans don't really know or forget what they originally stood for. They may vote the way they do because their family always voted that way, or they want to vote differently than their parents voted. They get into pissing contests at a petty level and never really sit back and contemplate "what do I stand for?" > That just sounds like it leaves everything open > to interpretation - who's to judge whether or not > ideas and voices are anti 'democratic norms'? I think you can kind of boil down the basic of "democratic norms." Liberty, Equality & Fraternity. Pluralist rather than one-party systems. Freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, non-discrimination, free elections, representative government and so on. You can't tell me that some people like living under oppressive and backward regimes because "it is their culture" when we have millions of people breaking through our border every year. They are not just the Latinos, but also thousands of Chinese, Korean, Irish, Filipino and other groups from all over the world that are giving up everything back home and risking deportation to be here. Whatever the criticisms of the U.S. we are still the most free country in the world in terms of individual freedoms and opportunities for a chance at a better life and prosperity vs. stagnation and "stay in your classism." If all these millions liked the systems in their home country so much, why not stay there? > After all (and we even see it in the recent Neil > Youn tng video), the right is quick to say that when > the left speaks out against a blatantly wrong, > counter-productive and destructive war, they are > being un-patriotic and aren't supporting their > troops It's just not that simplistic and I resent the left trying to portray it as such. For one thing many on the left have nothing but contempt for any notions of "patriotism" and always seem to loudly reject it as "fascist." But then they get all upset if someone calls them "unpatriotic." Why would they care to be called "patriotic" anyway if is something they revile? Most of the criticism is because of the "unholy alliances" they have made in their organized dissent. The manifesto addresses that very issue. It's one thing to dissent and criticize and we have a long tradition of it. But to hook up with groups and radicals and nuts who truly hate our country and our system to make their point does nothing but detract from their aims and turns people way off. It is just not effective other than pissing people off. > Is there anything left in our culture that isn't turned into a wedge > issue? If we jump like Pavolian dogs to every daily piece of whatever that blathers out from the media (both mainstream, alternative, blog and discussion lists) then we will always be manipulated and distracted and dancing to the tune of the day rather than seeking real answers and resolution. > Perhaps this manifesto is a step in the right > direction (at a minimum it at least acknowledges > the problem), but it hardly qualifies as a > document that settles the issues that divide us > as a nation. I didn't see it as something that is suppose to solve all our problems, but rather as a group who want to state and clarify their ideas and I think their ideals are brilliantly stated and offer much for many to rally around. >Most of it reads like general > rhetoric to me, and the writer tends to write in > flowery Kerryisms that the average man on the > street is not even going to understand. That's funny! Bush gets so much grief for talking folksy and being non-intellectual but Kerry is too intellectual and can't talk like the "folks?" I have faith in the folks that they can parse it all either way. ;-) >The Republican leadership has certainly fumbled >and bungled things badly in the last five years, >the challenge for the Democrats is proving to the >public that they have a grasp on ideas which will >do any better. I know many here will disagree but I think Bush inherited the backwash of 40-50 years of not taking care of issues that were either shelved or swept under the rug. He inherited quite a bit of a mess that was a long time in the making. He has tried to deal with it while having a large group in congress and the public and the media spending all their energy dogging him and attacking him 24/7/365. Maybe if those people could have come up with some good ideas and plans to help him or work with him, things might have been better. The concept of working together and for the common good, building consensus, is true whether it be dealing with your family, your work mates, your clients or the business of your country. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #156 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------