From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #125 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 3 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 125 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) [] Conspiracy Theories (njc) [] Dona Alias story [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #98 [StDoherty@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2006 #124(NJC) ["clive sax" ] conspiracy theroies, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) [Em ] Re: Joni's voice [J Kendel Johnson ] Sheila chandra and joni ["clive sax" ] The Hat Box ["c Karma" ] Re: Sheila chandra and joni ["ron" ] Top 20 singers [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Netflix - NJC ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: The Hat Box ["roberto munguia" ] Judy the snooty, re-verbed diva NJC [Bryan ] Re: Favorite among Joni's guitar licks ["Arkay O'Malley" ] Re: Favorite among Joni's guitar licks ["roberto munguia" ] Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) [Em ] Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: conspiracy theroies, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: conspiracy theroies, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: conspiracy theories njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: njc, about 9/11 ["Lori Fye" ] Re: conspiracy theories njc ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: conspiracy theories njc [dsknyc05 ] Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) -long (sorry) [Randy Remote ] Monday, Monday [Peep Richman ] Re: Netflix - NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Netflix - NJC [Catherine McKay ] My kid is going to art school!!! njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 00:34:07 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) Em, Here is a link below to several eye witness accounts from people inside and outside the Pentagon. Many of them describe the AIRPLANE wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon. There are many witnesses, including from several prominent Democrats. Remember how everyone saw the plane fly low over D.C.? Remember there were thousands of people in rush hour traffic on the highway facing the Pentagon? It's incredible to me that people think this happened in outer Siberia somewhere where there were no witnesses! This happened in a major U.S. city with thousands of witnesses. Do you really think that if it wasn't an airplane, that so many people said it was? The reason there may not be more video or photos is because it happened at one of the most secure military installations in the world. Whatever was confiscated is for other reasons, not a cover-up that no plane hit the building. Kakki http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html > but according to that video sent by Lori, there was no wreckage even. > So not only no in-flight pics, but precious little scrap on the ground > or in the building. And the one piece they do have, according to the > vid. is argueably not even from that supposed plane. > I gotta go re-watch. > Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 01:35:03 -0700 From: Subject: Conspiracy Theories (njc) Kate wrote: "It would be interesting to hear the specifics of why some of the information is ludicrous to those in the defense industry." It would be impossible to convey in one or 1,000 posts. It is like you would have had to work in it to understand. Just like me not being able to perform Calculus. Someone couldn't give me a few specifics in one post or probably even 1,000 and then I'd understand it. The allusions and connections the video tries to make is like someone playing Beethoven and insisting to you that it is Country Western. But they are both considered music, right, so maybe we can parse them enough to make them morph together. "The statement you made about people wanting to believe anything can describe people on both sides of this argument & is not really productive to the discussion anyway." So we are only suppose to discuss how the video might be true? I just cannot begin to fathom people seriously entertaining the thought that this was all some dort of Bushco neo-con plot to kill Americans, damage the ecoonomy for a couple of years, kill their own military personnel in the Pentagon, pay Bin Laden to make a video saying he did it and perhaps having David Copperfield devise an illusion of airplanes striking the WTC and Pentagon and crashing in Pennsylvania. And what about the victims of Flight 77? Were they disappeared some other way even after many called to say they were hijacked and crashing into the Pentagon? Are they in a witness protection program somewhere? I can only think that the level of disillusionment is so extreme that something like this video would cause people to seriously say "well, there are questions now." Wouldn't a really good documentary provided answers, not questions? " If we can avoid slinging mud at the messenger & stay with the message we might get through this discussion without hurt feelings." Hurt feelings? I become physically ill reading some of this stuff. It is very offensive to many people. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:21:56 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Dona Alias story I guess I should post my Don Alias story one last time.... I was in college and playing piano behind Tommy Sullivan around Boston, on the strength of a summer long Cape gig and an appearance on the Mike Douglas Show. We got a Friday-Saturday gig somewhere in Boston (Ken's Pub, maybe) and we thought it would be cool to get a drummer to round out the sound. We called the Boston Musicians Union and asked for a drummer. Alias shows up with another drummer, with traps and hand drums. (Don was in his Boston grad student phase?) , He was still largely a hand drummer, and he was teaching the other guy. Don played traps. This was 1970, and I can still remember how sweet it was playing over the grooves these guys were creating. (Here we are doing MOR like Bachrach and showtunes.) We were in 'good hands with AllState'. Among my best -ever musical experiences. About two years ago I sent Don an email about this gig, and he claimed to remember it well. A wonderful player and a sweet soul. Chucke ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:26:39 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #98 In a message dated 04/03/2006 3:30:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: This 'hatbox' issue could not have been more of a fiasco. First of all, it's certainly not a collector's item - you can go on Amazon.com today and buy one for $14, about a third of what the original release commanded. Second of all, as we recall, the CD wasn't secured and lots of them got scratched as they bounced and shook in transit. Third (and worst, imo) the hatbox came out 6 weeks prior to the basic jewel-case edition, exploiting I've got the hatbox and glad to have it. The only thing is that it's fabric and collects dust. But as far as these things go - it's fine. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:27:05 +0100 From: "clive sax" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2006 #124(NJC) >NP: The brilliant April Fool's Day Coverville>podcast - Clive, have you heard it? Not yet bob but I'm onto it...I'll let you know. Thanks clive _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 09:10:04 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: conspiracy theroies, njc Even though I have not seen the film.. . and want to . my gut feeling is that Bush did not create the tragedy of 911. I do not believe he is good and I do believe he is a dumb man.. . yet, I do not think this was his conspiracy. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 06:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) so what that video says, has no basis in reality? Thats fine too, if that's the case then people *should* debunk it. And I'd very much like to see a video or movie or TV show where someone I trust says it to the whole country. Proves that this is all not true, so we can go on with our lives. But at the moment it seems eerily natural, to maybe, sorta believe in this all. I'd like to see, say, Anderson Cooper investigate, and tell us to our collective face, that its not true and spell out the concrete reasons. Em - --- kbhla@sbcglobal.net wrote: > Em, Here is a link below to several eye witness accounts from people > inside > and outside the Pentagon. Many of them describe the AIRPLANE > wreckage > inside and outside the Pentagon. There are many witnesses, including > from > several prominent Democrats. Remember how everyone saw the plane fly > low > over D.C.? Remember there were thousands of people in rush hour > traffic on > the highway facing the Pentagon? It's incredible to me that people > think > this happened in outer Siberia somewhere where there were no > witnesses! > This happened in a major U.S. city with thousands of witnesses. Do > you > really think that if it wasn't an airplane, that so many people said > it was? > The reason there may not be more video or photos is because it > happened at > one of the most secure military installations in the world. Whatever > was > confiscated is for other reasons, not a cover-up that no plane hit > the > building. > > Kakki > > http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html > > > > but according to that video sent by Lori, there was no wreckage > even. > > So not only no in-flight pics, but precious little scrap on the > ground > > or in the building. And the one piece they do have, according to > the > > vid. is argueably not even from that supposed plane. > > I gotta go re-watch. > > Em > > http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/imsorry.wav ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 06:17:15 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Joni's voice rsc1@humboldt.edu wrote: As a live sound engineer, I've had the opportunity to do a couple of shows with Judy Collins in the last 3 years. I The last time I worked with her was worse. She did a couple of tunes ("things I picked up from my granddaughter - here's a song by the group Train") with her accompanying herself on piano and a cheesy drum and bass track on a laptop. She got lost a couple of times and fumbled and smiled, obviously embarassed. The songs weren't very good, and her performance of them poor. She also had a lot of trouble staying in pitch during the second set. Plus, she was the stereotypical diva... walked right off stage, smiled, and had her assistant wrap a coat around her as she walked out the door and straight into the limo. Sorry folks, Judy has left the building. I witnessed the same erratic, embarassed forgetfulness with Judy at this year's Folk Alliance in Austin -- compounded by the fact that she had the "headliner of headliners" kind of slot in front of the largest crowd at the conference. The reverb never caught my attention -- or seemed excessive -- so maybe she didn't get as cooperative a sound engineer as you, Gus. The same sort of oddball/erratic accompaniment showed up, though, with her pianist, who was bent on excessive, distracting noodling under -- and sometimes over -- her vocals. J rsc1@humboldt.edu wrote: > The destruction of her voice through decades of chain smoking is a > tragedy that stabs me in the heart every time I think about it. > Sitting in auditoriums recently listening to the still-vibrant, > full-ranged voices of Joan Baez and Judy Collins -- Judy, in particular > -- just twisted the knife that much further. As a live sound engineer, I've had the opportunity to do a couple of shows with Judy Collins in the last 3 years. I was once a fan of her work, but she was really difficult to listen to now. She requests that her voice be drenched in reverb, ALL THE TIME, even when she speaks, which helps smoothe out the notes that she has trouble sustaining, but also makes her sound like she is in a huge cave. It was weird when she talked between tunes with this 3-4 second concert hall 'verb on her voice. Ugh. The last time I worked with her was worse. She did a couple of tunes ("things I picked up from my granddaughter - here's a song by the group Train") with her accompanying herself on piano and a cheesy drum and bass track on a laptop. She got lost a couple of times and fumbled and smiled, obviously embarassed. The songs weren't very good, and her performance of them poor. She also had a lot of trouble staying in pitch during the second set. Plus, she was the stereotypical diva... walked right off stage, smiled, and had her assistant wrap a coat around her as she walked out the door and straight into the limo. Sorry folks, Judy has left the building. Give me Joni and her weathered, but full-bodied and passionate voice over that any day! Now Joan Baez - she can still sing! I actually prefer her voice of the last ten years to any before. Her pipes have just gotten better and better. Gus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:50:55 +0100 From: "clive sax" Subject: Sheila chandra and joni Hi all, wanted to post a nice link to a mashed video on 'You Tube' of Joni and sheila chandra. It opens with queen so don't think it's the wrong link. http://youtube.com/watch?v=75RBTpkUywY I hope you enjoy - it had me bopping in my chair. Clive xx _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:24:08 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The Hat Box " Limited edition "Night Ride Home" cd ... or Limited Edition "Both Sides Now" hatbox (neither of which are really worth a whole, whole lot in terms of price, at least not yet). "I threw that hatbox thing away. . I couldn't stand it. . ." "A useless and impractical packaging scheme, and that doesn't even touch on the quality of the music on the discs that did play. I was all too happy to give my worthless dust-collecting hatbox to Ashara for a Jonifest giveaway." GOSH, folks. Joni is an artist. Every artist must do one DADA piece. (Although for some, CMIRS came pretty close.) My "hatbox" is still in it's original shipping container, unopened. I guess I'm Joni speculating. CC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:52:01 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Sheila chandra and joni hi >>>clive wrote > wanted to post a nice link to a mashed video on 'You Tube' of Joni and > sheila > chandra. It opens with queen so don't think it's the wrong link. thanks - that was kinda cool also - quite a good site - lots of other joni mitchell (also some joni covers & and other) video clips ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:57:08 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: Top 20 singers This was really tough...here is mine... Joni Mitchell Ricki Lee Jones Laura Nyro Neil Young Jim Morrison Stevie Wonder Patti Smith Cat Stevens Michael Franks Sade Aimee Mann Madonna Sting Donald Fagen Dolores O'Riordan Alanis Morrisette Chrissie Hynes James Taylor Tom Rush Kenny Rankin And to whoever provided that link to Jane Siberry ......thanks.....really good stuff... Stewart - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:38:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Netflix - NJC For you Netflix fans, this is a positive case of content provider affecting content. Netflix Quietly Buying Arthouse Films April 02, 2006 By REUTERS By Gina Keating Online DVD renter Netflix Inc. hopes its subscribers will fall in love this week with "Cowboy del Amor," and many other unsung movies it is quietly buying at film festivals to release in arthouse theaters. Netflix will begin offering its customers the low-budget, independent "Cowboy" film as the first title it has backed with a theatrical release under a strategy to be the only place cinephiles can rent some small, critically praised works. Typically, DVD rentals get a boost from the publicity films receive in theatrical release. That is especially true for low-budget and art-house films like "Cowboy," which was released at theaters in a handful of cities for a few days in February . Netflix's publicity department made sure "Cowboy" -- a documentary by award-winning filmmaker Michele Ohayon about an ex-rodeo cowboy who runs what he calls a "woman bidness" to introduce lonely American men to marriage-minded Mexican women -- got noticed by reviewers. For the next month, "Cowboy" will be available only at Netflix. "I was married to an American woman for 17-1/2 years. She spoke perfect English and I never could understand her," begins the film's folksy narration, by "Cowboy Cupid" Ivan Thompson, who Netflix sent out on a media tour, including a visit to Howard Stern's radio show set for Monday. Lonely and unable to find an American wife, Thompson ran an ad in a Mexican newspaper more than 16 years ago and said he was astounded to receive replies from more than 80 women, including one from the gal he married, then divorced -- twice. "I said to myself, 'Self, this will make a good bidness,' and so I started doing it for the public," Thompson explained. The film, shot over three years in Mexico, New Mexico and Texas, traces the varying successes of three of Thompson's customers in finding cross-border love. "To present a woman good, I have to be enthused about 'em and like 'em, so it's a whole lot like the horse bidness," Thompson muses toward the end of "Cowboy." 'Data-Driven Hunches' Data collected on Netflix's 4.2 million subscribers' movie tastes help the company find an audience for hidden gems like "Cowboy," Netflix Chief Content Officer Ted Sarandos said. "We do fill a unique niche around small-market films," Sarandos said. Netflix often recommends little-known films to subscribers based on ratings customers give to earlier movies they have rented. Netflix's practice has built a level of trust among subscribers who believe the company is recommending a movie they will like. The company, which pioneered online DVD rental, began dabbling in distributing small films in 2004 with DVD releases of films such as "Born Into Brothels," a documentary on the children of prostitutes in Calcutta, which later won an Academy Award for best documentary. From "Brothel," Netflix learned "the importance of making the film an event for a particular audience but not trying to make one film for everybody," Sarandos said. "Being able to identify what niche wants a particular film and marketing that film (to them) ... is really valuable." Sarandos said he and his staff plan to secure rights to 100 more titles per year based on what he called "data-driven hunches." Sarandos saw "Cowboy Del Amor" at the South by Southwest film festival in Austin, Texas, and realized it was made by Ohayon, whose previous two films, "The First Year" and "It Was A Wonderful Life," were distributed exclusively by Netflix. "As far as I'm concerned everything I have done with Netflix has been successful," Ohayon said. "I know that every film has a long shelf life if you handle it right. There was complete respect for the filmmaking behind it, which is a filmmaker's dream." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:53:02 -0500 From: "roberto munguia" Subject: Re: The Hat Box now, what would a good Joni Dada piece be??? a statue of a business man in the town square made of......birdfeed, so that it would eventually be half eaten and covered in bird poo....on a concrete pedestal, of course. oh, yeh, he'd be holding Indian cigars, too! or.....an airplane smoke trail in the sky in the form of Amelia's face.....like a vapor trail. a piece of old Beale Street asphalt with Furry's leg glued to it sitting on a limo parked on a stage. So many possibilities. Cheers to all on this GREAT DAY, (first day of the rest -o-y-l) Roberto On 4/3/06, c Karma wrote: > > " Limited edition "Night Ride Home" cd ... or Limited Edition "Both > Sides Now" hatbox (neither of which are really worth a whole, whole lot in > terms of price, at least not yet). > > > "I threw that hatbox thing away. . > I couldn't stand it. . ." > > "A useless and impractical packaging scheme, and > that doesn't even touch on the quality of the > music on the discs that did play. > > I was all too happy to give my worthless > dust-collecting hatbox to Ashara for a Jonifest > giveaway." > > > GOSH, folks. Joni is an artist. Every artist must do one DADA piece. > (Although for some, CMIRS came pretty close.) > > My "hatbox" is still in it's original shipping container, unopened. I > guess > I'm Joni speculating. > > CC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:21:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Judy the snooty, re-verbed diva NJC Well, I have heard similar reports on Judy from other sources. If she wants to be a limo-loving diva, I don't mind too much, but I can't get past the vocal touch-ups. That's dishonest. Maybe that's what she means when she says "I want to thank the crew for making me sound like Judy Collins." I have really enjoyed recent concerts and have marginal feelings for the latest CD, Portrait of an American Girl, but...oh gosh, I just hate it when my idols are revealed to be flawed human beings. Bryan >As a live sound engineer, I've had the opportunity to do a couple of >shows with Judy Collins in the last 3 years. I was once a fan of her >work, but she was really difficult to listen to now. She requests >that her voice be drenched in reverb, ALL THE TIME, even when she >speaks, which helps smoothe out the notes that she has trouble >sustaining................, - --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:50:18 -0500 From: "Arkay O'Malley" Subject: Re: Favorite among Joni's guitar licks >* That loosely-strung opening slide upwards at the beginning of "Cold Blue > Steel and Sweet Fire". > when i read the subject line this is exactly what i heard, lol great minds and all that... arkay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:22:23 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: conspiracy theories njc A local talk show host whom I use to listen to said this about conspiracy theories...this makes sense to me: (paraphrasing) In order for a conspiracy to work it involves several and sometimes many people keeping their mouths shut for eternity....a major major task. Human nature is such we like to run our mouths...we like to share...spill the beans..we like to brag..on and on.. from the small town bank heist.... to the moon landing JFk and the magic bullet and now September 11..01 I haven't seen this video yet..only because the computer won't cooperate...so I will hold judgment. IF our government was involved...how many people on the inside would have to keep this secret to themselves? The most monumental task..I would think...involving hundreds of people..considering the scope of 911.. would for people to keep quiet about one of the most evil acts ever perpetuated on American soil. Bree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:08:34 -0500 From: "roberto munguia" Subject: Re: Favorite among Joni's guitar licks I really like that crazy loose string on The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey...especially when she goes Zen sonic banging on it over and over and over. Roberto On 4/3/06, Arkay O'Malley wrote: > > >* That loosely-strung opening slide upwards at the beginning of "Cold > Blue > > Steel and Sweet Fire". > > > > when i read the subject line this is exactly what i heard, lol great minds > and all that... > > arkay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:00:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Conspiracy Theories (njc) Me> "The statement you made about people wanting to believe anything can describe people on both sides of this argument & is not really productive to the discussion anyway."< kakki >So we are only suppose to discuss how the video might be true?< I don't get the logic of your response but I hope not. In fact I was hoping for a reasoned argument about why it might not be true. At any rate, I did not draw the same conclusions that you did from watching the video although perhaps some did. I do think there were some questions asked that are incredibly thought provoking. Some more than others. > Wouldn't a really good documentary provided answers, not questions?< I am not sure that all of these questions will ever be answered so I'd say no, a good documentary does not need to provide answers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:25:14 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) (Kakki) > Wouldn't a really good documentary provided answers, not questions?< > (Kate)> I am not sure that all of these questions will ever be answered so I'd say > no, a good documentary does not need to provide answers. > Mack - I find that, after reading much from different sites on the matter, much of the eyewitness testimony cannot be discounted. Not sure what happened but that still doesn't answer too many questions. Difficult, if not impossible, to answer said questions if the government will not cooperate. They haven't and won't. In the case of the Pentagon attack? it would be easy to prove if it was a plane by releasing those videotapes. Makes one wonder why they will not? This administration has lied on multiple occasions with the monumental example being this montrous war. Don't find that blindly following the government, despite their actions or policies, to be patriotic or the American way. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: conspiracy theories njc - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > I haven't seen this video yet..only because the computer won't > cooperate...so I will hold judgment. IF our government was > involved...how > many people on the inside would have to keep this secret to > themselves? hey Bree, and all, even having SEEN the video, I, for one am not able to completely pass judgement either. I certainly hope hope HOPE that no one of *us* would have a part in such a thing. I think the fact that some of us are willing to even lend an ear to such theories is being interpreted as us wanting it to be true! And at least for my part, nothing could be farther from the truth. I would not get my jollies if this proved to be true. I would be horrified beyond anything I've ever personally known. Would perhaps be equal to or worse than the horror of seeing the twin towers fall. Worse! Something you think you're never gonna see - and yet there it is, before your eyes. To me the size and scope of what happened on 9-11 taught me that almost anything is possible. I mean, as cold war era children we used to watch cartoons where some mastermind villain would plot to, ummm, well the huge one was "take over the universe", right? This just almost seems like that! So if it were true, it would just cause my sense of reality to really feel sick. For my part, its not like I *want* it to be true. I would not delight in nailing Bush and co with this. Did anyone notice that alot of the voice overs were clips of Hunter S. Thompson speaking? So right there, it was obvious to me there was/is a paranoid element to this. Fear and loathing radiates off this. But in a weird way I have to plead guilty to satisfaction in thinking that this current extension of the "Generation of Swine" would be capable of something really really crummy. But the reality is too horrible. All I can do is listen. I just don't see why at this late date, if US citizens are questioning, why, oh why can't at least a bit more light be shed??? It seems like the secrecy didn't WORK, we got SMACKED despite it..so why not open this up just a bit? I can understand the necessity of some military secrets. Even lots of them, I guess. But if enough of the citizens start to doubt, then it seems the veils will have to be lifted at some point. Gosh, why would any of us NOT trust our current leadership??? Imagine that! Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:51:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) - --- mack watson-bush wrote: > Don't find that blindly following the government, despite their > actions or > policies, to be patriotic or the American way. Mack! BLESS you for saying that! Questioning IS patriotic, and I think its our duty. For my own part - I wish I were not so paralyzed with laziness. Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:55:22 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) > I didn't see the video but it doesn't surprise me that the > Pentagon isn't releasing any details. It's military, okay? > It's at the very heart of national security. Of *course* they > aren't releasing details. Just because there are military > secrets doesn't mean every strange fantasy is real. Jim, before you wrote this, you should've WATCHED the video. The Pentagon is a secure installation, yes, but only to a point. You can drive by most of the outside walls. Just drive by. My partner sat in her office in Virginia and watched the Pentagon (where she worked in the early 80s burn.) It's not like the "plane" crashed into the (inner) A ring -- it was the (outer) E ring that was most damaged. Don't you think the most newsworthy event in recent U.S. history would have SOME sort of video that shows plane wreckage? Here is the church, here is the steeple. Open the doors and see all the sheeple ... Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:45:01 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (njc) > Questioning IS patriotic, and I think its our duty. Yep. http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dissent2.jpg Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:50:41 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: conspiracy theroies, njc > Even though I have not seen the film.. . and want to . > > my gut feeling is > that Bush did not create the tragedy of 911. > > I do not believe he is good > and > > I do believe he is a dumb man.. . > > yet, I do not think this was his conspiracy. I'm not sure Bush is really as dumb as he plays at being. At any rate, I agree; this wouldn't be his conspiracy. It would be Cheney's. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:51:50 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: conspiracy theroies, njc Let me add to that: by "Cheney's" I mean that Dick (what a truly appropriate nickname) would be the likely ringleader. He certainly did not doing anything alone. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:48:52 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: conspiracy theories njc > The most monumental task..I would think...involving > hundreds of people..considering the scope of 911.. > would for people to keep quiet about one of the most > evil acts ever perpetuated on American soil. I tend to think as you do about this, Bree, but then I also know that money and power are very tempting mistresses. Like Em (and many others, if not most), I would not delight in learning that our gov't was involved in 9/11 -- but I do want answers and I cannot fathom how EVERYTHING can be labeled "classified." It just doesn't make sense. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:06:12 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, about 9/11 > Are y'all saying that NO plane went into the Pentagon? > Wow. That's the first I've heard of that. Didn't people > see the plane? Basically what's being said, Debra, is that there wasn't the amount or sort of debris that would indicate that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. It appears that something much smaller hit it, something that may not have been a jet at all. For several years, I've heard that very thing from various people, and the video seems to indicate that's the deal. Some people saw a jet liner, some people saw a small commercial aircraft, some think they saw something else. I think excited minds get fuzzy about what they think they've seen, especially when a tv camera is shoved in one's face. And of course it all happened so quickly ... (And then there's that strange comment that Rumsfeld made a month later, referencing a missile ...) What amuses me is that the section of the Pentagon that was hit is quite visible as you drive along I-395, and yet the skeptics are claiming it could have been (and should have been) secured from view. It couldn't have been. You can drive right by it on any day. Perhaps in the smoke from the fire, you could do some hiding, but how fast can you really hide or move the debris from a Boeing 757? And why wasn't the HOLE bigger??? Feh. I'm going to stop for now. Debra, I know it will be beyond painful for you to watch the video, but if you're up to it, please watch. I'll be thinking of you (and everyone else). Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:35:49 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: conspiracy theories njc Original Message: - ----------------- From: Lori Fye lrfye58@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:48:52 -0700 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: conspiracy theories njc >I would not delight in learning that >our gov't was involved in 9/11 -- Lori It wouldn't be "our" gov't, Lori. It's the Repubs, the party of the plutocrats, by the rich for the rich, which would be gone forever. That, I'd LOVE to see. JR in NH - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:33:11 -0700 (PDT) From: dsknyc05 Subject: Re: conspiracy theories njc - --- Em wrote: > I would not delight in nailing Bush and co with > this. Me either. I wouldn't even have any grim satisfaction in having my gut feelings confirmed. I expect Cheney, Bush and Co to have plenty of money in Swiss bank accounts, but murdering U.S. citizens? Although why would I think that's so strange considering they've not had any problem sending kids over to Iraq to be slaughtered and maimed. Just now they're getting around to giving them decent body armor. This video has boggled my mind. I had some, "wow, I didn't know that" moments (those flashes of lights in the towers that look similar to flashes explosives make, for example), and other things that were, "yeah, I always thought that was weird," such as the patch of burnt grass in the field in Pennsylvania that looked unlike any crash site I've ever seen on tv. The news cameras were there right away. Where's the wreckage? Another thing that's always seemed oddly convenient is that the spot of the Pentagon that was hit was undergoing renovations so there were very few people there, and that section could be easily and quickly rebuilt. I hadn't heard about the damage being caused by a missile or explosives. Wow. I don't know what to think about that. The proof given in the video that it wasn't caused by a huge plane is compelling. And it is weird that there are no personal videos. Sure, NYC is loaded with tourists, but so is DC, and since the buildings in DC are rather low to the ground, it would be even easier to get video footage there than in NYC. And why not show the security tapes? And I've always wondered how bin Laden has managed to survive considering he's unusually tall (and he couldn't hide that) and he needs dialysis. So, the U.S. is taking care of him? Our arch enemy? Our get 'im dead or alive guy? There are records of him being in American hospitals? Wow. My thought about the destruction at the Pentagon and no plane going down in Pennsylvania is... if the Bushies are willing to aim planes and plant explosives in buildings that have 150,000 U.S. citizens in them, then killing the few hundred more on those two planes wouldn't be a problem. Much easier to kill the evidence, right? All fascinating, gut wrenching bits of information! I don't know what to think about it all. The video didn't give any satisfactory reason for why the Bushies would do this, but there are no satisfactory reasons for why Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, and all power hungry killers did what they did either. So the fact there's no answer to "why" doesn't stop me from wondering about things. Debra Shea, in NYC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:49:13 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Conspiracy theories (njc) -long (sorry) Of *course* President Bush didn't say anything > for 7 minutes; he was in shock just exactly like the rest of us. Were you > in shock? There were numerous very specific warnings that this kind of attack was imminent. The Hart senate committee report was very specific that terrorists were likely to use a hijacked airliner to strike prominent buildings; it even had an illustration of the same on it's cover! This report was delivered to President Bush on 1/31/01, and Hart and committee co-chair Sen. Rudman personally briefed Powell, Condi Rice and Rumsfeld on the subject at that time. Five days before the 9/11 attack, Hart met with Rice, saying "Get going on homeland security, you don't have all the time in the world." She said she would relay the message to the vice-president. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/005907.html Gary Hart: "But as one of those fearing a near-term attack, I went out on my own throughout the spring and summer of 2001 saying, "The terrorists are coming, the terrorists are coming." One of the speeches I gave was, ironically enough, to the International Air Transportation Association in Montreal. And the Montreal newspapers headlined the story, "Hart predicts terrorist attacks on America". Funny that this has not been in big headlines before and after the attacks in the US media. The Bushites were not the only ones asleep at the wheel. Richard Clarke, former National Security Council official and terrorism advisor/expert (going back to Reagan in case anyone suspects partisanism) was another person frustrated with the Bush administration's inability or unwillingness to take these threats seriously; he eventually resigned. The guard was down. Bush has made a statement that 'after 9/11 everything changed-I realized we could be attacked on our own soil'. During the 9/11 commission investigation, Condi Rice said that no one could have imagined that someone would attack the WTCs with aircraft. This is as absurd as when Bush claimed that no one could have predicted the New Orleans levees breaking down- another inevitability that was described in precise detail years before it happened. Frankly, that I think most everyone has known since the 1940's (or maybe since the British invasions) that we could be attacked on our own soil. Either he was blowing smoke up our asses, or he really is that stupid. Either way, he should not be president. And whether he was in shock or not, he should have stopped reading the book about the goat, excused himself and gotten up, and done his job. My own opinion (and fairly widely held, btw) is that they let it happen, to supercharge the agenda they had clearly laid out in the PNAC documents. Whether they knew it was going to happen that day, or just sooner or later, I don't know. RR another interesting site about the conspiracy theories and link to the "Loose Change" movie. http://tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:50:06 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Top 10, no top 20 The other thing is: where is Roger Daltry? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Monday, Monday Hey everyone! I just caught up on reading the past few Digests. Ron, you gave us all a magnificent gift!!! Thank you so very much for your hard, hard work! I think it may have been "Smurf" who mentioned all the birthdays we're having....and this thought coincides with a thought I had the other day about growing older. I'm smack in the middle of being 55. Sometimes I can feel my middle-age physically. There are even a few times when I feel a change in my tolerance for a variety of things. But, the primary feeling I have is how fortunate I feel because I can revisit almost every age anytime I want or need to....for therapy when I'm working with kids, as an example of "need". Growing older...thinking that Joni is now 62...recognizing that some of the best years are behind me now and the future is not looking real bright...feeling less fear about things that were the boogie-men of the past...and thinking about things like idealism, having a passion for a cause....I've retained these....I was reading what Kakki posted and wonder if people live fighting or rationalizing their disillusionment or are we talking about illusions? What exactly is it that we do with the potential power of having collective knowledge? Or, are we collectively (unconsciouly) agreeing to ourselves to be put in the position of being disillusioned because there is some faint recognition that we live in multiple layers of illusions. Sorry if I sound nuts...maybe I am...but, it seems to me that each person has the inner-power to interpret all the knowledge that's freely manipulated and thrown in our face or continue searching for truth....that's where the idealism comes in. It's too much of a disillusionment to really accept the fact that life is lived by so many people in response to other people, who may have more power, who then create a society that permits poverty, starvation, mass killings, profiling, child abuse, wife/husband abuse, slavery, exploitation, dishonesty, and manipulation...and you know this list can continue. When I see a movie, a documentary, or read a news article, or hear debates on TV/Radio, I always end up thinking that people are more apt to condone killing and all the other negatives I just listed, rather than consider productive change. Sometimes it feels as though we're missing the point. We're carrying on like wild, frightened, cornered animals because we can't fathom even the notion of real change. We fight one another, have passionate debates, enforce 'new' infra-structures....but everything remains the same. Nothing really changes. We Americans have a president who actually thinks he can say "When I talk about war, I am talking about peace", and the masses say...'oh yeah, that's right...how can we have peace unless we have war'...as if those two words are able to be interchanged at whim. I realize that I'm adding my thoughts to people who care....but I doubt you want to read a friggin' novel! On to other significant things. When I read about Joni collaborating with Jean Grand Maitre on a ballet I was absolutely thrilled. Once again, Joni is challenging herself...freely exploring foreign waters. This is exactly how I think Joni has always managed her talents as her talents interchanged with the necessities of her life. What I admire about Joni, with continuing awe, is that she doesn't follow a current or challenges a current...she lives with complete honesty in her life, exploring the many gifts she has wherever they may lead. I wonder how death affects Joni...Mingus, now Don Alias (not to say there haven't been many deaths). I wonder how Joni expresses her grief. Just wondering....maybe because some of our Digest family have lost people so dear to them....maybe because I feel that unresolved grief is so dangerous. I had a moment of sheer magnificence today. I'm living in a rented condo...since September 15TH to be exact. When I was financially forced to sell my beloved house that I had saved for 17 years to finally apply and get a mortgage, one of the attractions to this magnificent house was that it has three separate gardening areas. I felt as though I was living in a fairy tale, complete with bunnies and frogs and a pond I built with gorgeous fish....and such brilliantly colored flowers. Well, I have a MUCH smaller area to plant a little garden this year for the first time in so many years (4 to be exact), and I noticed that a former tenant had planted bulbs. They were in full bloom for two days...white with orange middles...daffodils...and this morning I cut a few and made an arrangement in a lovely glass a friend gave me many years ago. The reason I experienced such magnificence this morning was that for a short time I know I can watch a part of nature, that with little effort, I 'composed' into a glass. Then, of course (if you really know me) I thought for a long, long time about what it feels like to have the magic gift of talent...like Joni...and to memorialize emotions through music and art and now collaborating with Ballet. Enough...enough...!!! I know. I'm rambling! (Sorry). Love to all of you very precious people. BO - --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Netflix - NJC That's cool, Jerry - I've had Cowboy Del Amor in my queue for a while now and noticed today that the DVD comes out tomorrow. I also used it to get Soderbergh's "Bubble" when it came out in theaters & DVD simultaneously. Got Jim Jarmusch's "Down By Law" with Tom Waits today and watched Donnie Darko last night. Netflix rox. Bob NP: That mash-up that Clive posted Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Netflix - NJC Hey, if you haven't seen it yet, DO see "Everything is illuminated." I've been yakking about it to various special peeps, and I guess you lot qualify (heh-heh.) You will laugh, you will cry - unless you are made of stone, that is, but I don't think Joni fans are. - --- Bob Muller wrote: > That's cool, Jerry - I've had Cowboy Del Amor in > my queue for a while now and noticed today that > the DVD comes out tomorrow. I also used it to get > Soderbergh's "Bubble" when it came out in > theaters & DVD simultaneously. > > Got Jim Jarmusch's "Down By Law" with Tom Waits > today and watched Donnie Darko last night. > > Netflix rox. > > Bob > > NP: That mash-up that Clive posted > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:16:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: My kid is going to art school!!! njc I am so excited that I have to tell all my friends and everyone I know - especially my Joniamigos. My daughter just got an acceptance letter from the Ontario College of Art and Design. Of course, most of you have never heard about it, but it's a bit of a big deal here and of all the schools Sarah applied to, this is the one she really wanted to get into, but we were afraid she might not and were going for Plan B (and C and so on down the line.) She has a learning disability and doesn't get the best marks in some subjects but HOT DAMN!!! my kid is going to art school next year and I am thrilled to bits! http://www.ocad.on.ca/ocad_home.htm Thanks for indulging an old and foolish, but very proud, mother. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 17:31:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Sheila chandra and joni - --- clive sax wrote: > Hi all, > > wanted to post a nice link to a mashed video on 'You > Tube' of Joni and sheila > chandra. Thanks, Clive! I enjoyed this very much. I know nothing about Sheila Chandra, so I just googled and found out a bit. I'd like to check out more of her music. Anyone have any recommendations? Also, the drummer, Steve Reich is new to me but from googling him, I see everyone in the world knows him. I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder -- or 'french fry' here in the states -- about the endless attention "don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone" gets when Joni has said so many pithy and profound things -- right, Patti? -- but this little video was very nice. - --Smurf Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #125 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------