From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #10 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 11 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 010 Win a free VIP ticket to Carnegie Hall! details: jmdl.com/winvip.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- A Strange Girl [Wes Taft ] World Caf=?ISO-8859-1?B?6SA=?=Tue Jan. 10 [Patti Witten ] Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE [lcstanley7@aol.com] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) [JoniPD ] mac users NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: judgement mentality, njc [lcstanley7@aol.com] still not will and grace - njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] brokeback v midnight njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] re: Boy on DJRD ["c Karma" ] van babyiNJC [mags h ] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Smurf ] Re: judgement mentality, njc ["Sherelle Smith" ] This guy is worth it! (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] njc, Brokeback Mountain ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) ["Donna Binkley" ] joni ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Boy on DJRD [Box of Paints ] Re: Boy on cover of DJRD ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: njc, Brokeback Mountain [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] ebert's review njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Boy on cover of DJRD [Box of Paints ] Re: Boy on DJRD - that's not Joni [Wes Taft ] Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Fw: Brokeback Mountain njc ["Mark Scott" ] Red State Update review of Brokeback Mountain -- njc [Smurf ] Joan Osborne on for Tribute [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:41:42 -0500 From: Wes Taft Subject: A Strange Girl Thanks for the DJRD "drag" info from several members. Had no idea. What a hoot. Once again she proves she is an artist without boundaries; a real free spirit. Still curious about the boy... and boy, how I love Don Juan's reckless daughter ; ) Wes On 1/10/06, Lori Fye wrote: > > Wes wonders: > > > Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless > > Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. > > What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any > info. > > I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about is > the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. > > Lori, > still in Berkeley > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:12:10 -0500 From: Patti Witten Subject: World Caf=?ISO-8859-1?B?6SA=?=Tue Jan. 10 Tue, 10 Jan 2006 - Today's playlist includes one of my faves: JONI MITCHELL REFUGE OF THE ROADS HEJIRA http://worldcafe.org Patti - -- http://pattiwitten.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:22:41 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc > -- Mark wrote: > >> Another voice chimes in. Bob Murphy or 'Smurf' is >> another gay man who is >> mostly deaf. > > Huh? > > I think a more apt description would be that I am > mostly gay and partially deaf! > > This leads me to another point I'd like to make about > this movie, and then I'll shut up. I didn't see either > character as 100% gay. Great JMDL thread! Anyone who isn't interested, delete away! Sorry. Any man who stems another's rose the first chance he gets and then carries on a secret 20 year affair with him is gay. I don't care how married they get. > Oddly enough, I saw this film in the same movie > theater -- now a multiplex -- in which I had seen > another 'cowboy' movie with gay content more than 35 > years ago: "Midnight Cowboy." That movie was rated X > when it first came out -- despite the fact that I > don't think there's one swear word in it. I was too > young to be allowed to buy a ticket, so I snuck in. > > "Midnight Cowboy" came out in 1969, I think, which > would have placed it at 6 years into Jack and Ennis's > ficticious relationship. I wouldn't put the two movies in anywhere near the same class. Midnight Cowboy has proven to be one of the great American classics and was far more believable with world class acting. I think Brokeback Mountain will be a blip in just a few years. I'm not criticizing the movie because it isn't about gay liberation, what I am saying is I didn't care about the characters so it didn't move me. There was never any sex between the characters in Midnight Cowboy, but I truly believed they cared about each other and cried when Rizzo died in Voight's cradled arms. When I saw Ennis fondle Jack's shirt I almost laughed out loud. It reminded me of Marlon Brando's rubbing the candy wrapper in Reflections In a Golden Eye. I was only 17 then in 1967 and living in a very gay repressed era and even I laughed at the immaturity of it back then. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:18:41 -0500 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE Laura wrote: < Next time you are in my neck of the woods, you are welcome to come to church with me. We pray for an end to the war and for all people. > Smurf wrote: Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's very nice to pray for an end to all people, Laura. Sorry. Couldn't help myself. Hi Smurf! It was just a little for play on my part. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:25:38 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Jerry Notaro wrote: > I wouldn't put the two movies in anywhere near the same class. > Midnight Cowboy has proven to be one of the great American classics > and was far more believable with world class acting. I think > Brokeback Mountain will be a blip in just a few years. You may be right about Brokeback fading into obscurity eventually but it won't be because of any lack of quality, imo. I don't think the acting gets any better than Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall's performances in this movie. Personally, I have only seen 'Midnight Cowboy' once and I didn't particularly care for those characters. I should watch it again, though, as I don't remember it all that well and time sometimes makes a difference in how we perceive and judge things. But I think Ledger and Gyllenhall's portrayals will stand up against Voight and Hoffman or any performances put on film, whether you empathize with the characters or not. When I saw Ennis fondle Jack's shirt I > almost laughed out loud. It reminded me of Marlon Brando's rubbing > the candy wrapper in Reflections In a Golden Eye. I was only 17 then > in 1967 and living in a very gay repressed era and even I laughed at > the immaturity of it back then. It seems that you are equating Ennis's gesture with Brando's and calling them both immature. I don't want to go too much into my reasoning as I don't want this email to become a 'spoiler' for 'Brokeback Mountain'. But given the context of the scene in question, I have to say that I heartily disagree with your assessment. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:33:19 +0100 From: JoniPD Subject: Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) Michael Paz wrote: >Does anyone have a copy of a song called "I'll Be Your Lover Too" by Van >Morrison. I heard the song on a movie soundtrack and liked it so much I >wrote down the name of the song, but I have not been able to find it >anywhere. I have a lyric sheet for it and the melody was so easy I was >playing it before the song ended on guitar. I don't even remember the name >of the movie. Any help will be appreciate it. > > >Best > >Paz > > > !Hola, Michael! yes! it's a very beautiful tune! I've seen Bob and Richard have already told the details about the original album and the movie... Here it's the song: http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0E40NMZV2QNQB38FUN3H7RRBKH "renamed_06 - I'll Be Your Lover Too.mp3" (5488 KB) Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Stan Rogers: Three Fishers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:44:58 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: mac users NJC I know that there are many Mac users out there and my question here is directed to them. One of my students (a mac user) uses a phonetic font with his Mac, using Operating System 9 (OS9). I believe the font is called Times IPA (International Phonetic Association?). Over the xmas hols he changed over to OSX (Ten) and is distraught to learn that OSX cannot read his phonetic font and only shows hieroglyphics. His HD is loaded with OS9 and OSX (Dual Boot) so he has not lost everything; it is just that he believed (was told) that X would recognise OS9 files and this seems not to be the case. Can anyone suggest a way for OSX to read his OS9 files correctly, or suggest a font which he can use with OSX. I know there are two matters here, but if he finds a workaround for the first problem then the second one disappears. I hope you can help him (and me; he is crying all over my dictionaries). Thanks in advance. mike in bcn np Jamie Cullum - The Wind Cries Mary (jeez, what a dreadful CD this is; an unwanted xmas pressie). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:46:37 -0500 From: lcstanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: judgement mentality, njc Sherelle wrote: I've seen this "judgement mentality" utterly destroy people's hearts and minds as well as their bodies. This is what a lot of people are taught and my hope and prayer is that it will stop. It makes me so, so very sad...I don't even know where to begin. I'm just thankful that I have eyes to see now. Hi Sherelle, I'm glad you got out of CBN alive! I survived Concerned Women for America and the Christian Coalition! Nothing much has changed in the land of religion really in my opinion. There are still Pharisees preying on innocent peoples' fears. History repeats itself. And there are always St. Francis like people out there convicting the pious and living out the way of love. Somewhere there is a scripture that says, "let not your heart be troubled" and another that goes with, "for I am always with you," and another that says, "God is love." Some of my favorite Beatles scriptures are: There's nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love, all you need is love, Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:48:48 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: still not will and grace - njc Mark speaks for me here, I am sure Mark speaks from his experience which is true to mine. Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mark Scott" >> > It seems that you are equating Ennis's gesture with Brando's and calling > them both immature. I don't want to go too much into my reasoning as I > don't want this email to become a 'spoiler' for 'Brokeback Mountain'. But > given the context of the scene in question, I have to say that I heartily > disagree with your assessment. > > Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:08:44 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: brokeback v midnight njc Somehow I am afraid we will end up debating these two movies as one against the other as if one ahs to be lesser and one better. Not every movie works for or speaks to every person. Brokeback Mountain is powerful for some, as is the Annie Proulx story on which it is based. It's place in cinematic history, way too soon to know. Midnight Cowboy has itsown place. There movies do not stand against each other or in opposition to each other, and liking one is not mutally exclusive of the other. Different works of art evoke different reactions. Brokeback is very real to me and to say that it speaks to my experience and people I know and to myself means I like it. If it doesn't work for every human being on the planet, that's fine. Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:40:26 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Boy on DJRD Wes queried: >Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless >Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. >What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any info. And Lori responded I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about is the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. And my two cents: I read Joni said that "all THREE figures" on the cover art were herself. That would include the little boy. There is a photo credit to Myrtle Anderson and something in the back of my mind traces some reference of a photo (perhaps the one of young Joni in Indian dress) to a school pageant...can anyone corraborate? Now, the question I have is whether the "third" figure is the boy. Could it be the nude? Oh, Margaret! CC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:54:49 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: van babyiNJC bro... dripping with gorgeous. thanks for sending this gem along. and thanks mikey for the headsup. mags, with something to say about brokeback mountain, but will do so later. np: that van song ;-) let us go then you and i ~t.s.eliot~ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:34:10 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Jerry wrote: << Any man who stems another's rose the first chance he gets and then carries on a secret 20 year affair with him is gay. I don't care how married they get. >> This is just too simplistic and pat a view for me, Jerry, but if it works for you, that's fine. It reminds me of racial categorization, which I am not against since I am currently working in a field in which it can be very helpful and even life-saving. The categories are evolving, but there has been a tendency in past years, for example, to make any non-white parentage trump the white. So someone who had one parent of Asian ancestry and one parent of European ancestry became "Asian" in the record books. This has, not surprisingly, angered people because it presents an incomplete view of who they are and many have insisted on more accurate racial categories, which are being put into form the US census on down. To recast what you said above, Jerry, someone -- not me -- with a different point of view could go to the other extreme and say that any man who leaves a relationship with another man and goes off and gets married to a woman and has children with her is straight, no matter how many times he slips back into his former ways. I think both statements are way off, and that the truth -- as is often the case -- lies somewhere in-between. --Smurf - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:41:44 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: judgement mentality, njc Hi Laura, This is one of my favorite Beatle's songs! It's funny though because I've never really looked at the lyrics on paper before and when I do, they are so profound! Yes, there is a lot of carnage out there isn't there? I'm glad you made it out alive too! Love, Sherelle >From: lcstanley7@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org, sherellesmith@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: judgement mentality, njc >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:46:37 -0500 > >Sherelle wrote: > > I've seen this "judgement mentality" utterly destroy people's hearts and >minds as well as their bodies. This is what a lot of people are taught and >my hope and prayer is that it will stop. It makes me so, so very sad...I >don't even know where to begin. I'm just thankful that I have eyes to see >now. > > >Hi Sherelle, > > I'm glad you got out of CBN alive! I survived Concerned Women for >America and the Christian Coalition! > > Nothing much has changed in the land of religion really in my opinion. >There are still Pharisees preying on innocent peoples' fears. History >repeats itself. And there are always St. Francis like people out there >convicting the pious and living out the way of love. > > Somewhere there is a scripture that says, "let not your heart be >troubled" and another that goes with, "for I am always with you," and >another that says, "God is love." Some of my favorite Beatles scriptures >are: > >There's nothing you can know that isn't known. >Nothing you can see that isn't shown. >Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. >It's easy. >All you need is love, all you need is love, > >Love, >Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:56:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc > Jerry wrote: > > << Any man who stems another's rose the first chance he gets and then > carries on a secret 20 year affair with him is gay. I don't care how married > they get. >> > > This is just too simplistic and pat a view for me, Jerry, but if it works > for you, that's fine. > > It reminds me of racial categorization, which I am not against since I am > currently working in a field in which it can be very helpful and even > life-saving. The categories are evolving, but there has been a tendency in > past years, for example, to make any non-white parentage trump the white. So > someone who had one parent of Asian ancestry and one parent of European > ancestry became "Asian" in the record books. This has, not surprisingly, > angered people because it presents an incomplete view of who they are and many > have insisted on more accurate racial categories, which are being put into > form the US census on down. > > To recast what you said above, Jerry, someone -- not me -- with a different > point of view could go to the other extreme and say that any man who leaves a > relationship with another man and goes off and gets married to a woman and has > children with her is straight, no matter how many times he slips back into his > former ways. This is absolutely my last post on this. The two statements are not the same at all. Once you have slept with a member of the same sex, that IS what you have done. Especially when it continues over the years. It cannot be undone. So many men I knew did the same thing and thought that by getting married and having kids they were straight. They are not. They can call themselves bi, and deny they are gay. They can call themselves whatever. But what they are not, and what Ennis was not, was straight. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:53:52 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: This guy is worth it! (NJC) Hi Joni family, Last month, I hired someone for a pittance and also for only one month to do some Internet PR for me and he hit pay dirt this morning. I am so pleased and proud about this, I wanted to share his remarks to you! Hi, Sherelle. Everybody got hit by the holidays, too. Your reviews are just now starting to pop up. I'll send you the links as I receive them. Anyway, they loved you in the U.K. Here's the first: http://www.whisperinandhollerin.com/reviews/review.asp?id=3308 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:22:54 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Brokeback Mountain Wow. All this talk about "Brokeback Mountain" now! And if it brought a stupid bastard like Smurf to tears, I know I'm in trouble again. Seriously though, I have enjoyed everyone's comments and will be thinking of you all when I finally get to see it. Smurf, Vince, Suze, Jerry, Mark E., and you know...... Love, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:45:29 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) Wow! Congratulations Sherelle, you're on your way! And it was good to see your smiling face again. db >>> "Sherelle Smith" 01/10/06 11:53 AM >>> Hi Joni family, Last month, I hired someone for a pittance and also for only one month to do some Internet PR for me and he hit pay dirt this morning. I am so pleased and proud about this, I wanted to share his remarks to you! Hi, Sherelle. Everybody got hit by the holidays, too. Your reviews are just now starting to pop up. I'll send you the links as I receive them. Anyway, they loved you in the U.K. Here's the first: http://www.whisperinandhollerin.com/reviews/review.asp?id=3308 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:54:19 -0500 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc From: "Jerry Notaro" <<< Finally saw it. Must say I was very disappointed. >>> I got an opportunity to see "Brokeback Mountain" at the late Sunday night showing and would like to make a few comments (if you're tired of hearing about the film, delete here). Initially when I sat down I was prepared with my tissues in my pocket to have a good cry. I am a heterosexual female who was raised by very liberal parents who taught me to be not only tolerant but accepting and welcoming of the differences in people. I was ready to embrace the suspension of disbelief and plunge headlong into this film. I was also sorely disappointed. It's not that the story isn't good, or deep, or honest. It's not that the acting isn't up to par because I'd have to say the acting was well above-average. My biggest problem with the film was the extremely poor sound-editing/quality. Ennis' constant mumbling in combination with his dialect made it difficult for me to follow the dialogue at times. I am not deaf and am normally quite good at discerning what people are saying but Heath Ledger barely moved his lips when speaking and appeared to have marbles in his mouth for the duration of the film. Combine that with the poor equalization of sound, the combative peripheral sound and it made for an annoyance which ruined the film for me. I understand that there are many people who mumble and it's a reality that we don't all have perfect elocution but when making a film, especially a film with a message as powerful as this one, the dialogue is essential and, personally, I would have made the choice to suspend that aspect of reality so that the audience wouldn't miss anything. After the first 10 minutes my companion said "what do you think so far?" and I replied "If I could understand a word they were saying it would help." The story is a good one and probably one which many older (and perhaps not much older) gay men and women can relate to. The raising of a child by a bigotted parent who had to dramatically demonstrate to his boys the effects of living an honest life as a gay man in rural 1950-60's America had a profound effect on Ennis' ability communicate and I don't know that it was a "choice" on his part to keep such a tight rein on his feelings as much as it was ingrained in him to keep his emotions in check so as not to be perceived as less-than-manly. "Living on the down-low" is a topic which has gained some understanding in recent years, I mean if Oprah does a show on it, by Goddess, most of the television-owning population is familiar with that term. The necessity to have a "beard" for some gay people is sad but even today is part of our ever-increasingly influenced "Christian" country. Hell it's not just the gays who have to hide their proclivities it's anyone who lives any kind of sexually-alternative lifestyle. The actress who played Ennis' wife, Michelle Williams, was terrific. The emotions played across her face so that one knew, simply from her expression, the depth of her pain and it was moving. She was only one of a wonderful ensemble of actors. The cinematography was worthy of an Oscar nomination, some of the most beautiful areas of our nation backdropped this touching film... too bad the sound quality couldn't have matched the rich visuals. There's a lot more to say about this film, I barely touched on it. Warmly, Cassy I'll give it a 2-kleenex rating and a 3 out of 5 stars. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:27:43 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: joni She never ceases to amaze or surprise me. While driving on a trip the other day attending to elderly mother problems I played a game I play. I pick the cd's I am going to listen to without looking at them and then am surprised and usually happy with what comes out from the speaker. Picked one, put it in, and out comes the first sounds of Mingus. I thought 'oh, no, anything but Mingus.' I have listened to parts of it since I got it but have never really listened as it didn't do much for it. I didn't like it. I decided to give it a go and listen to the whole thing at one time. After doing so have decided I still don't care much for it but one time during it I was thrilled to find more magic from Joan. Don't know which tune it was or the exact line but it said something to the effect of knowing someone and going through the entire life without ever kissing them. Now, forgetting the Greek definition, that is tragedy and could think of two or three persons that the line pertained to. Made me sad then resolved to find them and kiss them before my days are over. This am have the music on revolve and 'circle game' played. Always liked the tune but heard a line that had never got through before. 'there will be new dreams.' New dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah Joan, I love ya. mack np: missy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:07:55 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Some people like pie, others prefer cake. I prefer cake 80% of the time but the other 20% I like pie. On rare occasions, I will eat a brownie. Some like it all. Everyone is different. Labels are a waste of time. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: njc, Brokeback Mountain About "Brokeback Mountain," someone aledgedly named "Patti" wrote: < Wow. All this talk about "Brokeback Mountain" now! And if it brought a stupid bastard like Smurf to tears, I know I'm in trouble again. > Okay, Jerry, step away from Patti's keyboard. --Smurf - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:00:04 +0000 From: Box of Paints Subject: Re: Boy on DJRD I'm sure I read somewhere that the boy was a friend of the photographer or something, or the kid of the person who brought in the balloons. I will have to look it up in the extensive jmdl library! Much Joni Jamie Zoob Happy 2006 folks On 10/01/06, c Karma wrote: > > Wes queried: > > > >Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless > >Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. > >What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any > info. > > And Lori responded > > I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about is > the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. > > And my two cents: > > I read Joni said that "all THREE figures" on the cover art were herself. > That would include the little boy. There is a photo credit to Myrtle > Anderson and something in the back of my mind traces some reference of a > photo (perhaps the one of young Joni in Indian dress) to a school > pageant...can anyone corraborate? > > Now, the question I have is whether the "third" figure is the boy. Could > it > be the nude? Oh, Margaret! > > CC > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... A Case Of You , Joni Mitchell 1971 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:24:19 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Boy on cover of DJRD >>> Lori Fye 01/10/06 12:23 AM >>> I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about is the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. Lori, still in Berkeley Donna replied: Thanks for clearing that up Lori, it was on the list sometime back too. I still chuckle when I tell you that for years and years I thought that was Jaco Patorius, I have no idea why, guess it just seemed logical at the time...db ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:36:05 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: njc, Brokeback Mountain Patti, I have loved the story for so long - as I have posted tediously I am sure - and I loved the movie - whioch I have been almost as tedious about - I hope you love it too. After a few more people have seen it I want to discuss the one line from the story that they omitted which I wish they had kept, and the one scene from the movie that is in the book that is the one that haunts me, and the several images from the movie that I hope get burned on people's consciousness' forever. Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Patti Parlette" > Seriously though, I have enjoyed everyone's comments and will be thinking of > you all when I finally get to see it. Smurf, Vince, Suze, Jerry, Mark E., > and you know...... > > Love, > > Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:07:07 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: ebert's review njc Ennis tells Jack about something he saw as a boy. "There were two old guys shacked up together. They were the joke of the town, even though they were pretty tough old birds." One day they were found beaten to death. Ennis says: "My dad, he made sure me and my brother saw it. For all I know, he did it." This childhood memory is always there, the ghost in the room, in Ang Lee's "Brokeback Mountain." When he was taught by his father to hate homosexuals, Ennis was taught to hate his own feelings. Years after he first makes love with Jack on a Wyoming mountainside, after his marriage has failed, after his world has compressed to a mobile home, the laundromat, the TV, he still feels the same pain: "Why don't you let me be? It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this -- nothing, and nobody." But it's not because of Jack. It's because Ennis and Jack love each other and can find no way to deal with that. "Brokeback Mountain" has been described as "a gay cowboy movie," which is a cruel simplification. It is the story of a time and place where two men are forced to deny the only great passion either one will ever feel. Their tragedy is universal. It could be about two women, or lovers from different religious or ethnic groups -- any "forbidden" love. The movie wisely never steps back to look at the larger picture, or deliver the "message." It is specifically the story of these men, this love. It stays in closeup. That's how Jack and Ennis see it. "You know I ain't queer," Ennis tells Jack after their first night together. "Me, neither," says Jack. Their story begins in Wyoming in 1963, when Ennis (Heath Ledger) and Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) are about 19 years old and get a job tending sheep on a mountainside. Ennis is a boy of so few words he can barely open his mouth to release them; he learned to be guarded and fearful long before he knew what he feared. Jack, who has done some rodeo riding, is a little more outgoing. After some days have passed on the mountain and some whiskey has been drunk, they suddenly and almost violently have sex. "This is a one-shot thing we got going on here," Ennis says the next day. Jack agrees. But it's not. When the summer is over, they part laconically: I guess Ill see ya around, huh?Their boss (Randy Quaid) tells Jack he doesn't want him back next summer: "You guys sure found a way to make the time pass up there. You weren't getting paid to let the dogs guard the sheep while you stemmed the rose." Some years pass. Both men get married. Then Jack goes to visit Ennis in Wyoming, and the undiminished urgency of their passion stuns them. Their lives settle down into a routine, punctuated less often than Jack would like by "fishing trips." Ennis' wife, who has seen them kissing, says nothing about it for a long time. But she notices there are never any fish. The movie is based on a short story by E. Annie Proulx. The screenplay is by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana. This summer I read McMurtry's Lonesome Dove trilogy, and as I saw the movie I was reminded of Gus and Woodrow, the two cowboys who spend a lifetime together. They aren't gay; one of them is a womanizer and the other spends his whole life regretting the loss of the one woman he loved. They're straight, but just as crippled by a society that tells them how a man must behave and what he must feel. "Brokeback Mountain" could tell its story and not necessarily be a great movie. It could be a melodrama. It could be a "gay cowboy movie." But the filmmakers have focused so intently and with such feeling on Jack and Ennis that the movie is as observant as work by Bergman. Strange but true: The more specific a film is, the more universal, because the more it understands individual characters, the more it applies to everyone. I can imagine someone weeping at this film, identifying with it, because he always wanted to stay in the Marines, or be an artist or a cabinetmaker. Jack is able to accept a little more willingly that he is inescapably gay. In frustration and need, he goes to Mexico one night and finds a male prostitute. Prostitution is a calling with many hazards, sadness and tragedy, but it accepts human nature. It knows what some people need, and perhaps that is why every society has found a way to accommodate it. Jack thinks he and Ennis might someday buy themselves a ranch and settle down. Ennis who remembers what he saw as a boy: "This thing gets hold of us at the wrong time and wrong place and we're dead." Well, wasn't Matthew Shepard murdered in Wyoming in 1998? And Teena Brandon in Nebraska in 1993? Haven't brothers killed their sisters in the Muslim world to defend "family honor"? There are gentle and nuanced portraits of Ennis' wife Alma (Michelle Williams) and Jack's wife Lureen (Anne Hathaway), who are important characters, seen as victims, too. Williams has a powerful scene where she finally calls Ennis on his "fishing trips," but she takes a long time to do that, because nothing in her background prepares her for what she has found out about her husband. In their own way, programs like "Jerry Springer" provide a service by focusing on people, however pathetic, who are prepared to defend what they feel. In 1963 there was nothing like that on TV. And in 2005, the situation has not entirely changed. One of the Oscar campaign ads for "Brokeback Mountain" shows Ledger and Williams together, although the movie's posters are certainly honest. Ang Lee is a director whose films are set in many nations and many times. What they have in common is an instinctive sympathy for the characters. Born in Taiwan, he makes movies about Americans, British, Chinese, straights, gays; his sci-fi movie "Hulk" was about a misunderstood outsider. Here Lee respects the entire arc of his story, right down to the lonely conclusion. A closing scene involving a visit by Ennis to Jack's parents is heartbreaking in what is said, and not said, about their world. A look around Jack's childhood bedroom suggests what he overcame to make room for his feelings. What we cannot be sure is this: In the flashback, are we witnessing what really happened, or how Ennis sees it in his imagination? Ennis, whose father "made sure me and my brother saw it." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:12:42 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc mack wrote: > Some people like pie, others prefer cake. I prefer cake 80% of the time but > the other 20% I like pie. On rare occasions, I will eat a brownie. Some > like it all. Everyone is different. Labels are a waste of time. You got that right. Furthermore, in my never-humble opinion, everyone is bisexual to *some* degree. It's a shame that our various societies are so hung up about it. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:19:38 +0000 From: Box of Paints Subject: Re: Boy on cover of DJRD This is from the jmdl's lovely website! Hope it's informative.... I wonder what the 'previous album was, probably from Hejira? Would you say he's meant to be there? I wonder if he's in the music book for Hejira? I'll have to have a look! Much Joni Jamie Zoob "In the song, Don Juan is really the art of the tongue, it's rapping - coffee house poet talk," says Joni who dressed up as a black guy for the LP's cover and sleeve. That's her too, underneath the Indian garb. The shooting sessions were upbeat, with Joni trying on different dresses and dancing around while Norman Seeff clicked away. When he asked for another change of clothes, he hardly recognized the black character that strutted from the dressing room five minutes later. "At that point, I realized I really enjoy character acting," she says. Working again with the Camera Lucida (Lucy) machine, Joni arranged the photos agreed upon from the sessions: she blew up the shot of her as the black guy and put it in the foreground; she liked the spirit of the shot with the top hat because it symbolized what she felt was the 'magic' on the album; and she included the shot of a kid who'd been in a session for a previous album. "He was shy and had never danced before, that's why he's looking at his feet," she says. But to her, the elements were not "homogenized" enough to be the final cover shot. When she noticed a postcard of a nude with a Mickey Mouse hat and balloons on a bulletin board she felt it was "the element that was like the cherry on the pudding that makes the whole thing come together." She worked it onto the dress, partly obscuring the pubic area and figure of Mickey Mouse (for legal reasons), I added the birds, and then had an airbrusher smooth over the edges of all the photos. She then selected the background colors from the options presented by Glen Christensen, who, she says, has a "wonderful knowledge of inks." According to Joni, most reviews of the album missed its point: "Basically it has to do with turning your back on America and heading into the Third World...at the time Muslims were messing around in Washington, there were radical tensions. I was disillusioned. The songs on the album have a lot of ethnic references and there's a certain sentimentality for the North American Indian." On 09/01/06, Wes Taft wrote: > Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless > Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. > What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any info. > > Wes > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... A Case Of You , Joni Mitchell 1971 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:18:49 -0500 From: Wes Taft Subject: Re: Boy on DJRD - that's not Joni While, I recognize the picture of her as a little girl (recalls the cowboys/germans story she tells during the 1/26/95 Gene Autry radio broadcast), and I definitely see her in the "Don Juan" shots, she just can't be the boy. Thanks to everyone for the info. Wes On 1/10/06, Box of Paints wrote: > > I'm sure I read somewhere that the boy was a friend of the photographer or > something, or the kid of the person who brought in the balloons. I will > have > to look it up in the extensive jmdl library! > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > Happy 2006 folks > > On 10/01/06, c Karma wrote: > > > > Wes queried: > > > > > > >Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless > > >Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about > her. > > >What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any > > info. > > > > And Lori responded > > > > I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about > is > > the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. > > > > And my two cents: > > > > I read Joni said that "all THREE figures" on the cover art were herself. > > That would include the little boy. There is a photo credit to Myrtle > > Anderson and something in the back of my mind traces some reference of a > > photo (perhaps the one of young Joni in Indian dress) to a school > > pageant...can anyone corraborate? > > > > Now, the question I have is whether the "third" figure is the > boy. Could > > it > > be the nude? Oh, Margaret! > > > > CC > > > > > > -- > > I am a lonely Painter > I live in a Box of Paints > I'm frightened by the devil > But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... > A Case Of You , Joni Mitchell 1971 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) Sherelle - that review is incredible! (And well-deserved I might add) He sure gave it a mess of stars - I almost ran out of fingers counting. Congratulations and keep the good news coming. Bob NP: Loggins & Messina, "Same Old Wine" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:42:47 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) Hi Bob, I sat there at my desk with my jaw dropped! Thanks for the congratulations! Seeing that the will to try came from a tape recorder in my bathroom and "A Tape of You", it seems only right to share this with you. Joni is such an inspiration and it is such a joy to listen to her music. I know there are so many here who have also been inspired to find their creative sides. It's just a good feeling all the way around!!! Love, Sherelle >From: Bob Muller >To: Sherelle Smith , joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: This guy is worth it! (NJC) >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:25:12 -0800 (PST) > >Sherelle - that review is incredible! (And well-deserved I might add) > > He sure gave it a mess of stars - I almost ran out of fingers counting. >Congratulations and keep the good news coming. > > Bob > > NP: Loggins & Messina, "Same Old Wine" > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands >ASAP. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:28:09 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Cassy wrote: > From: "Jerry Notaro" > > My biggest problem with the film was the extremely poor > sound-editing/quality. Ennis' constant mumbling in combination with > his dialect made it difficult for me to follow the dialogue at times. > I am not deaf and am normally quite good at discerning what people > are saying but Heath Ledger barely moved his lips when speaking and > appeared to have marbles in his mouth for the duration of the film. > Combine that with the poor equalization of sound, the combative > peripheral sound and it made for an annoyance which ruined the film > for me. I think this is a valid criticism. I saw the movie with Travis and a good friend. We all three had trouble hearing some of the dialogue & I've heard other people say the same thing. Glad you saw it, Cassy and thanks for the very thoughtful post about it. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:31:20 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Fw: Brokeback Mountain njc From my partner of 10 years, Travis. (We bought rings on New Years Eve to commemorate our 10th which was on 12/28/05.) Travis wrote: > Please tell Cassy that most of the outdoor scenes movie were shot in > Alberta Canada. > > L/T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:59 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Red State Update review of Brokeback Mountain -- njc This is a riot. Give it time to get past the "King Kong" bit! http://www.travisandjonathan.com/redstateupdate6.html From Gawker.com: Red State Update review of Brokeback Mountain Travis And Jonathans Red State Update movie review show for the rest of us, the rest of us being people put off by the high-toned smug self-satisfaction of citydwellers like light beer drinker Ebert or sushi nibbling Roper. Here they review Brokeback Mountain, and much is learned. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:21:08 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Red State Update review of Brokeback Mountain -- njc This is a riot. Give it time to get past the "King Kong" bit! http://www.travisandjonathan.com/redstateupdate6.html From Gawker.com: Red State Update review of Brokeback Mountain Travis And Jonathans Red State Update movie review show for the rest of us, the rest of us being people put off by the high-toned smug self-satisfaction of citydwellers like light beer drinker Ebert or sushi nibbling Roper. Here they review Brokeback Mountain, and much is learned. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:23:56 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: joni mack watson-bush wrote: > She never ceases to amaze or surprise me. Don't know which tune it was > or the exact line but it said something to the effect of knowing > someone and going through the entire life without ever kissing them. That was probably 'Chair in the Sky', Mack. It's a song that tries to imagines Charles Mingus' thoughts and feelings as he sees his life coming to an end: Chair in the Sky The rain slammed hard as bars It caught me by surprise Mutts of the planet And shook me down for alibis I'm waiting for the keeper to release me Debating this sentence, biding my time In memories of old friends of mine In daydreams of Birdland I see my soul on fire Burning up the bandstand Next time I'll be bigger I'll be better than ever I'll be happily attached To my cold hard cash But now.... Manhattan holds me To a chair in the sky With the Bird in my ears And boats in my eyes Goin' by..... There's things I wish I'd done Some friends I'm gonna miss *Beautiful lovers* *I never got the chance to kiss* Daydreaming drugs the pain of living Processions of missing lovers and friends Fade in And they fade out again In these daydreams of rebirth I see myself in style Rakin' in what I'm worth Next time I'll be bigger I'll be better than ever I'll be resurrected royal I'll be rich as Standard Oil But now... Manhattan holds me... To a chair in the sky With the Bird in my ears And boats in my eyes Goin' by....... Give it a few more listens, Mack. You might find some more gems in there. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:50:12 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Joan Osborne on for Tribute ...but no official mention of Allison Krauss, as rumoured, yet. http://www.musicforyouth.org/joni/index.htm - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #10 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------