From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2006 #9 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 10 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 009 Win a free VIP ticket to Carnegie Hall! details: jmdl.com/winvip.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Desktop pic #35 ["Kate Bennett" ] sjc, Graham Nash & Friends ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE ["Kate Bennett" ] Fillmore njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt [Smurf ] Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt [Smurf ] The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Jerry Notaro ] NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE [Smurf ] Re: Gretchen Wilson/NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Jerry Notaro ] his dark materials, pandora etc njc [mags h ] RE: NJC Pat Robertson's latest mis-step ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Jerry Notaro ] its not will and grace njc [vince ] Re: its not will and grace njc ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Dear friends NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt [Michael Paz ] Re: Austin City Limits/Soundstage/NJC [Bob Muller ] I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) [Michael Paz ] "A Case of You" pitched to CBC's National Playlist ["Allison Crowe Music ] Boy on cover of DJRD [Wes Taft ] Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) [Bob Muller ] Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [vince ] Favorite albums of 2005 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc [Smurf ] RE: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) ["Richard Flynn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:09:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Desktop pic #35 Mark! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Here's another desktop pic for you. This time it's, I Had a King. This one is a little cynical. I just hope Chuck Mitchell isn't on this list. Download it here: http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1VUGSAJJFOA042C3EE0V2LPMAL Mark in Sydney< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:11:58 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: sjc, Graham Nash & Friends Patti, thanks for the great CSN concert review... pretty sure Peev still plays in your neck of the woods occasionally... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:23:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE The dudes truly a sociopath... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:30:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Furry Lewis >Also, I can sorta understand Furry's resentment at being visited by a coked-up limoload of "beautiful people," one of whom eventually wrote an unflattering song that mentioned his false teeth and leg. The song has always made me a little uncomfortable in that Furry seems to be treated a bit like a sideshow curiosity. Maybe Joni is totally innocent of any 'wrongdoing' -- whatever that means -- but hers is a perspective Bonnie Raitt (for one) never would have taken, and this is a song Bonnie never would have written. - - --Smurf< You nailed this one smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:36:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fillmore njc >That Fillmore Auditorium is the house that he and Bill Graham built, for all practical purposes. Sigh. Those were the days, my friend, I thought they'd never end...< cool story Julius... I remember a bit of those days when I was living in SF back then... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 02:55:29 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt - --- Julius wrote: > It sure pays to be a Friend-of-Paz. I'm so glad it works for you, Julius. All it has ever gotten me is cavity searches. - ---Julius also said: > Wish you coulda been there, smurfy. Me too! The one-and-only time I met Bonnie was backstage at a Boston Common concert in '86 or '87, a couple of years before her big comeback. ("'Comeback!' I hate that word . . . it's 'a return'!" -- Norma Desmond.) I was so completely in awe of meeting Bonnie I was barely able to speak, but she was totally gracious and charming. I have always had lots of admiration for her -- as a performer, of course, and also as a human being. - --Smurf __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL  Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 03:16:05 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt My apologies to the Joni-onlies for not tagging my previous post for its lack of Joni content. My excuse is that it is 6 a.m. on a Monday morning and I am a stupid bastard. Have a great week, everybody. - --Smurf __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL  Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:55:09 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc It is the plan, but enough, already. If they don9t start releasing it to more theaters people will soon be tired of being turned away. Finally saw it. Must say I was very disappointed. Much of the plot is laughable. Much of their misery they brought upon themselves and to others around them. Not by being gay (or whatever) but by lying to themselves. I grew up in the same era and many of us did not follows their paths to please others. I found the acting above average, but the story threadbare. I guess I9ve become cynical in my old age. I sat in the audience of Rent and yelled 3Get a job!2 Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:04:59 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE Patti wrote: One of the last times I *tried* to sit through church was just before the war started. Scared and helplessly hoping, I went to pray for peace, and this is what I heard from the altar: "We have to pray for George Bush. What COURAGE he has to bring us into Iraq to FIGHT for peace! (me: HUH?????????) And what about all these peace activists? Who are THEY to judge?" Hi Patti, Next time you are in my neck of the woods, you are welcome to come to church with me. We pray for an end to the war and for all people. Afterwards, I'll introduce you to our priest who is definitely a peace activist and has a dream. He is so uplifting and right on. There are lots of Pat Robertson's out there, but thank God not all churches and ministers are of the church of Pat mentality. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:41:12 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC Pat Robertson is a flaming A$$HOLE Laura wrote: < Next time you are in my neck of the woods, you are welcome to come to church with me. We pray for an end to the war and for all people. > Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's very nice to pray for an end to all people, Laura. Sorry. Couldn't help myself. --Smurf - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos  Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:05:13 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Jerry Notaro wrote: Much of their misery they brought upon themselves and to > others around them. Not by being gay (or whatever) but by lying to > themselves. I grew up in the same era and many of us did not follows > their paths to please others. Sexuality aside, I have met men like the two characters in 'Brokeback', many times. My feeling is that given the types of characters that Proulx and the film makers very successfully created and the place and circumstances they were in, Jack & Ennis had no choice but to talk and behave exactly the way they did in this movie. Would someone else have done otherwise? Possibly. But not those two men. And what would their alternatives have been? Can you imagine either one of them in New York or San Francisco? Jack, maybe. But Ennis would never last. That was the point I was trying to make with my original post on this subject. To me this movie felt so real. I wish Edward were alive to hear what he would have had to say about it. My opinion. We all have our own, don't we? Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:22:28 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Gretchen Wilson/NJC Hi Mike, I totally agree with you on some forms of Country not being my taste. I too know in the first few moments of the song whether or not I am going to like the piece of music or not. Some Honkytonk I like and some I don't. I really like Trace Adkins but not sure if I like this latest one, "Honkytonk Badonkadonk". (Yes America, a new word..."Badonkadonk"!) The word "Badonkadonk" actually came from "Misdemeanor Missy Elliott" who is from my home town of Portsmouth Virginia and who graduated from the same, (now defunct) high school as I did (Manor High School). Another schoolmate who did all right for himself is Nathan McCall who wrote a bestseller called "Make Me Wanna Holla". (and he used real names in the book!) Back to Country music though; One thing I do like is Country with a Bluegrass flavor like Allison Krauss and Union Station. I melt everytime I hear their music. Willie Nelson and any other "Country Outlaw" have always been at the top of my list and Johnny Cash goes without saying. Roseanne Cash did this remake of a song, "Tennesse Flat Top..." (I can't remember the correct name!) and I absolutely love it! I have loyalties to Brad Paisley because he grew up in the Ohio Valley where I lived for sixteen years and my musical friends used to play behind him at the Capital Music Hall in Wheeling, West Virginia. "Whiskey Lullabye" with Allison Krauss is my favorite song of his! I don't always care for everything he does though. With any artist, it's usually something I catch in their voice on the first few bars which lets me know if I want to delve deeper. Everyone has a different way of listening and you should not apologize for yours! That's why music is such a beautiful thing! It's personal and we can make it into whatever we want to. I just hear something in Gretchen Wilson that lets me know there is more to her than meets the eye. Nice to acknowledge you my friend! Love,Sherelle Mike wrote: Sherelle, You know I totally respect your opinion. You have some very valid points, some that I probably miss because many times I don't delve enough into the artists background. Definitely a fault of mine. I usually know immediately if I am going to like someone or a piece of music immediately. With country music, I have very little patience for the honky tonk. Like any other music I listen to, it has to speak to me and that doesn't fit for me. I will usually know after about the first 5-10 notes if I will give it a listen or go to something else. I have always been very impatient with listening because I feel I could be spending that time trying out something else, or listening to something I know I like. Glad you acknowledged my dislike. I always pay close attention to your passages. Good to see you again! Mike NP: Sea and Cake - Do Now Fairly Well ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:31:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc > Jerry Notaro wrote: > Much of their misery they brought upon themselves and to >> others around them. Not by being gay (or whatever) but by lying to >> themselves. I grew up in the same era and many of us did not follows >> their paths to please others. > > Sexuality aside, I have met men like the two characters in 'Brokeback', many > times. My feeling is that given the types of characters that Proulx and the > film makers very successfully created and the place and circumstances they > were in, Jack & Ennis had no choice but to talk and behave exactly the way > they did in this movie. Absolutely. Even Ennis referred to the many men of the West that did, but his fear of retribution stopped him. Many, Many men and women of their era left the homophobic states and fearlessly went on their own to create a gay and lesbian culture so they could live the lives society told them they couldn't. Those were and are my heroes, not gay men who married when they didn't want to and ruined theirs and their families lives, or shacked up with other married men or male Mexican prostitutes. > My opinion. We all have our own, don't we? Absolutely. That is why I love this list for more than Joni. But I heard so many reports of people weeping and being profoundly affected by this movie. That didn't happen at the showing I was at. There have been many, many more movies about this subject that affected me so much more. I read on one of my lists it was going to create a cultural revolution. A big overstatement to be sure. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:14:00 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: his dark materials, pandora etc njc greetings and salutations yes virginia, there's plenty of coincidence of the synchronistic kind a la jmdl...welcome to the ride. i've been listening to pandora for a few weeks, as suggested by my daughter..it's a blast. bruce cockburn news...i did mention this on another little list, however, it is worth repeating because it is the bruce news....he's now confirmed to attend the winnipeg folk festival. he'll be doing main stage no doubt, as welll as small stage/guitar workshop things. this is as big as it gets for me, and i'm thrilled to the bone. as for his dark materials trilogy, a brilliant literary journey to behold. i attended the children's international literature conference here in the peg last june with another jmdler (the last time i saw richard ;-) , and we learned much ado about philip pullman . highly recommended. anyone in the UK see the stage production? we saw clips of it, sheer magic. and speaking of books, some new gems i've recently discovered: the time in between david bergen winner of the 2005 giller prize the case of lena s david bergen see the child david bergen david is a writer from winnipeg and has a style that is elegant and down to earth. he tackles subject matter in a way that leaves you wanting more, thus my reading three of his books thus far. he has that gift of character development and story line that pulls you in from the first phrase onward. he says things that some of us think but don't dare say out loud. the time in between is a story set mainly in viet nam. protagonist charles boatman has spent 20 years dancing with his demons as a result of a tour in viet nam, and decides to go back and confront whatever it is that happened back in 68. this much we know. what we dont know is what has happened to charles as he goes missing after a month, which propels two of his children, ada and jon, to rush in to search for him. not the typical viet nam war story whatsoever, and yet we see how deeply the war bleeds from generation to generation and beyond. plenty of twists and turns, and beauty in the most mundane of scenarios. see the child is a heart breaking tale of a couple who lose a child and yet gain something in the end. even if all it is is a bit of insight into the why. i'll not say too much more about this, as the story speaks well enough for itself. the case of lena s. is another heart breaking tale of what it is to be a teenager in the world. set in winnipeg, it was wonderful to recognize locations in my own neighbourhood. i've walked over the maryland bridge countless times, i rehearse on wellington crescent...these are but a few of the things that drew me in. that said, even if you are not from 'here' , i guarantee that this story will keep you suspended throughout. bergen utters things we dare not say out loud. three day road joseph boyden the rumbling thunder of world war one rolls across the ocean, tugging on the heart strings of boys of all ages across this fair land. set iniitally in moose factory, ontario, and then toronto and then france; three day road is a story within a story within a story. a tender, graphic telling of two young first nations boys who are taken from home into residential school (sadly, a common story here) and they escape and grow up together as blood brothers of the most sacred kind. elijah and xavier decide to go to war...off to toronto they go via canoe, to train for action in world war one. straight away, it becomes evident that due to their hunting skills , the boys are an excellent addition . once the boys land knee deep in the muck and stench of the front lines, they become sharp shooters/snipers for the canadian cause. they work magic in the cold dank forests, many a time, and are able to get inside spaces that no one believes possible. the events are gruesome as the story unfolds. a brilliant stage is set and the reader travels back and forth through time, space and voice...as each character, elijah, xavier and x' aunt niska offer up their perspective on common threads throughout. heart wrenching, moving, unforgettable. brilliant writing. based on a true story, joseph boyden captures the tradition of first nation story telling as he is himself metis and knows that path well. while i read them ages ago, worth mentioning again: the time traveler's wife audrey niffenegger a gorgeous love story , travelling through time with many surprises. the kite runner khaled hosseini a first novel for hosseini, the kite runner is set in afghanistan...and brings the reader full force inside his memory of home and what it is to grow up and face familiar demons as a child and then revisit them as a grown man. compelling, wonderful story telling, a gifted writer. serious excellent reading all of them. mags, back ever so briefly, from the land of lurk. let us go then you and i ~t.s.eliot~ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:24:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: NJC Pat Robertson's latest mis-step Oh dear! I read the article and shook my head. Unfortunately, this kind of teaching is what I was given because I actually worked at CBN for a time. I will just tell you that I am still picking up pieces of my life because of it. My heart was in the right place but I knew something was terribly wrong. Can I share my dream with you? I had a dream one night when I worked there that I was on the grounds of CBN and it was dusk. There was every sort of animal roaming the grounds, giraffs, elephants, zebra All of a sudden a predatory animal like a lepoard or a tiger started chasing the animals trying to kill them and devour them. One in particular was a sheep. He then started running after me. I ran as fast as I could and jumped over a fallen log and hid myself from him. He kept running after other animals and I was spared. This was one of those dreams that I knew meant something. I knew the other animals were other innocent people working at CBN who thought they were doing the right thing and a good thing by being there. They were hurt and wounded from the attack and scattered. What I have seen in real life are many who used to work there who have been so damaged or even destroyed. The carnage is unbelieveable...that's all I can say. I saw things there that disheartened me to the point of despair and shook my faith in God to its very foundations. I've seen people pass away in utter despair and hopelessness. I've seen this "judgement mentality" utterly destroy people's hearts and minds as well as their bodies. This is what a lot of people are taught and my hope and prayer is that it will stop. It makes me so, so very sad...I don't even know where to begin. I'm just thankful that I have eyes to see now. I can't even begin to express my sadness and disappointment at his statement so I will just leave it at that. Sorrowfully, Sherelle Bree wrote: I just don't understand the rationale behind this kind of thinking. SO...the little girl who is just diagnosed with bone cancer...is that God showing His enmity towards her? The family that died in a car accident..God's wrath? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:51:11 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Jerry wrote: < Many, Many men and women of their era left the homophobic states and fearlessly went on their own to create a gay and lesbian culture so they could live the lives society told them they couldn't. Those were and are my heroes, not gay men who married when they didn't want to and ruined theirs and their families lives, or shacked up with other married men or male Mexican prostitutes. > I am not sure how or when this became about heroes -- and I am at work, so I can't go back and check to see if I missed something -- but Ennis and Jack weren't heroes at all to me. They were just a couple of guys whose all-too-human stories moved me very deeply. And I, for one, identified much more with them than I probably would have with fictional characters who lived heroic lives, because I sure haven't! --Smurf - --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:07:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc It became about heroes because of my explaining why I was not sobbing or emotionally attached to the story the way it has been described to me. Rightly or wrongly, it did not affect me because I did not identify with them as characters or feel emotionally involved. I kept thinking, probably because I have taught gay history and have seen so many documentaries and read so many books on the subject, about the true sacrifice so many others have made and THAT affected me more than these fictional characters. But that is just me. It was not the cinematic marvel that it has been for many other gay men. That's all, no more. Jerry > Jerry wrote: > > < Many, Many men and women of their era > left the homophobic states and fearlessly went on their own to create a gay > and lesbian culture so they could live the lives society told them they > couldn't. Those were and are my heroes, not gay men who married when they > didn't want to and ruined theirs and their families lives, or shacked up > with other married men or male Mexican prostitutes. > > > I am not sure how or when this became about heroes -- and I am at work, so I > can't go back and check to see if I missed something -- but Ennis and Jack > weren't heroes at all to me. They were just a couple of guys whose > all-too-human stories moved me very deeply. And I, for one, identified much > more with them than I probably would have with fictional characters who lived > heroic lives, because I sure haven't! > > --Smurf > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:16:19 -0500 From: vince Subject: its not will and grace njc Jerry Notaro wrote: > Many, Many men and women of their era > >left the homophobic states and fearlessly went on their own to create a gay >and lesbian culture so they could live the lives society told them they >couldn't. Those were and are my heroes, not gay men who married when they >didn't want to and ruined theirs and their families lives, or shacked up >with other married men or male Mexican prostitutes. > Not everyone had that option, or has the option. Not everyone's self knowledge of being gay is so total an epiphany as it is for some others. Ennis and Jack did not realize their own reality until four years later - and by then they were in circumstances that are very familiar to many of us. Even now in the number of states that have no protection under law, in a country where anti gay measures disguised as defense of marriage bills sweep state after state, how advanced are we? Interesting that Annie Proulx's story about two men who are from Wyoming, and one who continued to live there, was published in 1997 about a relationship that began in 1963 and ended as it did in 1993. The year the story was published was the year of Mathew Shepherd's murder in Wyoming. Their story spoke to me and that of a lot of people that I know. For those who have lived a different reality, for them, it is good. I relate a hell of a lot more to Jack and Ennis - and have since I read the story the year I moved in with Pete - where even then we had to maintain a facade that I was renting a room in order to preserve his practice - than I do to those who could pick up and move thousands of miles away. Should we have left behind our children or grandchildren who didn't ask for the situation that obtained? The story of Brokeback Mountain is a universal story as is Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, Ramades and Aida, of love that is thwarted by outside pressures. It is not universal to the gay experience. There were certainly a lot of tears in the audience I saw it with - because I suspect Annie Proulx' story is a lot closer to us here than anything we have seen before. If the build up led to expecting a transcendent experience, one could be let down, and no film or artistic experience works for everyone. I am sorry it did not work for you Jerry and I appreciate your perspective. The closing line of dialogue - "Jack, I swear - " speaks of something so utterly painful learned too late in life. That speaks to a hell of a lot of us who did not do bad acts on purpose but found ourselves in something we did not understand and then had to make the best of it trying very hard not to hurt those who were innocent, and often made bad choices because that was all we had to chose from. The last words is the story: "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it." Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:04:54 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: its not will and grace njc Yeah, what Vince said. I guess for me the story was of an everlasting love that could not come to fruition in the daily sense of actually being together. It is a tale of longing for something that you know you can't have, and the times you do get a taste just make you yearn for it all the more. Yes, it's a story of two male lovers, but also all that goes with love, the risk, the heartache, the joy. This movie conveyed all those emotions and more, as it showed the wreck that living in a loveless marriage can bring. The fact that Ennis wanted to be so much more, but was bound by his family, and his love for Jack, really packed an emotional punch for me. He would always sacrifice his job to be with his children or his lover. My 2 cents. Suze, who is the luckiest of all to have seen the movie with the wonderful Vince. > Not everyone had that option, or has the option. Not everyone's > self knowledge of being gay is so total an epiphany as it is for > some others. Ennis and Jack did not realize their own reality > until four years later - and by then they were in circumstances > that are very familiar to many of us. Even now in the number of > states that have no protection under law, in a country where anti > gay measures disguised as defense of marriage bills sweep state > after state, how advanced are we? > > Interesting that Annie Proulx's story about two men who are from > Wyoming, and one who continued to live there, was published in 1997 > about a relationship that began in 1963 and ended as it did in > 1993. The year the story was published was the year of Mathew > Shepherd's murder in Wyoming. > > Their story spoke to me and that of a lot of people that I know. > For those who have lived a different reality, for them, it is good. > I relate a hell of a lot more to Jack and Ennis - and have since > I read the story the year I moved in with Pete - where even then we > had to maintain a facade that I was renting a room in order to > preserve his practice - than I do to those who could pick up and > move thousands of miles away. Should we have left behind our > children or grandchildren who didn't ask for the situation that > obtained? The story of Brokeback Mountain is a universal story as > is Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, Ramades and Aida, of love > that is thwarted by outside pressures. It is not universal to the > gay experience. There were certainly a lot of tears in the > audience I saw it with - because I suspect Annie Proulx' story is a > lot closer to us here than anything we have seen before. If the > build up led to expecting a transcendent experience, one could be > let down, and no film or artistic experience works for everyone. I > am sorry it did not work for you Jerry and I appreciate your > perspective. The closing line of dialogue - "Jack, I swear - " > speaks of something so utterly painful learned too late in life. > That speaks to a hell of a lot of us who did not do bad acts on > purpose but found ourselves in something we did not understand and > then had to make the best of it trying very hard not to hurt those > who were innocent, and often made bad choices because that was all > we had to chose from. The last words is the story: "There was some > open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but > nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it, you've got > to stand it." > > Vince - -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:23:26 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Dear friends NJC Bob Wrote: >>> Bob Muller 1/3/2006 6:45:24 PM >>> If you'd like to send a card to Donna: Thank you for this Bob, To you and to everyone here who has contacted me I thank you for your kind words, thoughts and prayers. I look forward to seeing many of you in NYC in 3 weeks. I haven't told the list I was coming til now cuz the last 2 times I tried to do something with the JMDL it got cancelled at the last minute due to some problem or another, but these are my plans as of now: Arriving Wed. 2/1 @ 1:30 p.m. Leaving Sat. 2/4 @ 1:45 p.m. Staying at Park Central Hotel My CG ticket is Parque Section Row P I'm interested in any and all JMDL gatherings (woo hoo) db >>> Bob Muller 1/3/2006 6:45:24 PM >>> If you'd like to send a card to Donna: Donna Binkley 819 Curtin St. Houston, TX 77018 Michael Paz wrote: Dear Friends Our dear Donna Binkley (Texas Tush) lost her daddy very early this morning (1:45am Jan 6, 2006). Please send your thoughts and prayers to her at this time of massive sorrow. With great respect, Love Paz - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:11:46 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Furry Lewis...now Bonnie Raitt You did seem to enjoy it though. ;-) Paz > --- Julius wrote: > >> It sure pays to be a Friend-of-Paz. > > I'm so glad it works for you, Julius. All it has ever > gotten me is cavity searches. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:00:09 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Austin City Limits/Soundstage/NJC They're definitely good enough for me - like I said, I love their sound, I didn't like X&Y as much as "Rush of Blood" (which tied with Beck's Sea Change for album of the year) but it sounds great jumping out of the speakers, and their success spans a couple of generations; lots of old-timers like me dig them and my son's crowd lines up for their arena shows, so like you say "they're pretty successful"...LOL, most musicians would enjoy being as 'pretty successful' as Coldplay. Bob NP: David Lahm, "Coyote" (side note to David, my Dad loved your Richard Rodgers "Medleyfyin'" CD, and wanted me to pass that along. And he can be hard to please when it comes to Rodgers' music) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:50:43 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) Does anyone have a copy of a song called "I'll Be Your Lover Too" by Van Morrison. I heard the song on a movie soundtrack and liked it so much I wrote down the name of the song, but I have not been able to find it anywhere. I have a lyric sheet for it and the melody was so easy I was playing it before the song ended on guitar. I don't even remember the name of the movie. Any help will be appreciate it. Best Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:38:26 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music Mgmt" Subject: "A Case of You" pitched to CBC's National Playlist I'm on Digest, so, forgive me if this has already been raised - but, fyi, here in Canada, on CBC Radio today, broadcaster/author Bruce Dowbiggin made an eloquent pitch for Joni's "A Case of You" to make the "National Playlist". ( http://www.cbc.ca/nationalplaylist/ and http://www.cbc.ca/insite/NATIONAL_PLAYLIST/2006/1/9.html It's a fun morning program hosted by well-known musician and personality Jian Ghomeshi.) Should the song make it through to the final four (new additions to the list) this Friday, folks will then be able to vote online to keep it on the list thereafter ( : cheers, Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:26:52 -0500 From: Wes Taft Subject: Boy on cover of DJRD Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any info. Wes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) Hey Mikey, You can hear a .wav of it and get the lyrics here: http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/ClassyInVA/LoverToo.html Looks like it's originally from his "His Band & The Street Choir" album. The movie soundtrack you're looking for is "Moonlight Mile". You can also snag it off itunes or any other download service, of course if I had it I'd send you the mp3 myself. Hope that helps - you owe me a cavity search dude. Bob NP: Ben Folds, "Kalamazoo" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos  Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:56:25 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) I have Limewire, I'll do a search and send it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:41:29 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Jerry Notaro wrote: > It became about heroes because of my explaining why I was not sobbing > or emotionally attached to the story the way it has been described to > me. Rightly or wrongly, it did not affect me because I did not > identify with them as characters or feel emotionally involved. I kept > thinking, probably because I have taught gay history and have seen so > many documentaries and read so many books on the subject, about the > true sacrifice so many others have made and THAT affected me more > than these fictional characters. I'm going to chime in with Smurf, here. I don't think 'Brokeback Mountain' was meant to be about heroes of the gay liberation movement or to create role models. I do think it was meant to convey the pain that is inflicted by the closet mentality and the oppressive environment that produces that mentality. The characters were not meant to be necessarily admirable or heroic. They were portrayed, above all, as human beings. Human beings with imperfections and flaws like all humans have. Human beings who, whether because of circumstances of environment or birth or societal attitudes or because of their own fear and shortcomings (if you want to label it that way) are unable to break out of the destructive pattern of denial and concealment they find themselves in. As Ennis says, if you can't fix it, you have to stand it. In Ennis's eyes, he and Jack can't fix it. Whether that attitude is right or wrong is not the point, in my opinion. The fact that these two men are made to *feel* forced to stay in their respective closets and live frustrated, unfulfilled lives is the point and the tragedy of 'Brokeback Mountain'. That and the undeniable, unrelenting, indestructible nature of what they feel for one another. I think it's wonderful and admirable that there have been people that would not accept the status quo and chose to break out and make a stand against it. Edward was most certainly one of them. Hell, I'm one of them, too, as are Travis and Jerry and Smurf and probably every gay and lesbian person on the JMDL. But that doesn't stop me from feeling some empathy and sadness for those who have been unable to find the courage or whatever it takes to do that. The fact that the two characters in 'Brokeback Mountain' even acknowledged what happened between the two of them and chose to continue to connect with one another, even on the sly, given the type of people they were and the place and the time was a huge act of courage, in my opinion. It also speaks volumes against the argument that sexual preference is a choice. Part of what impressed me about the movie was how successfully it portrayed the irresistable force that Jack and Ennis had to contend with. As much as they wanted to believe otherwise, these two men were in love, each of them, with another man. Well I've already said more than I ever intended to say about this. I hope it hasn't spoiled the film for anybody who hasn't seen it yet. I still urge everybody to see it and make up your own mind about it. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:59:16 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc Mark, well said, thank you, Vince Mark Scott wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> It became about heroes because of my explaining why I was not sobbing >> or emotionally attached to the story the way it has been described to >> me. Rightly or wrongly, it did not affect me because I did not >> identify with them as characters or feel emotionally involved. I kept >> thinking, probably because I have taught gay history and have seen so >> many documentaries and read so many books on the subject, about the >> true sacrifice so many others have made and THAT affected me more >> than these fictional characters. > > > I'm going to chime in with Smurf, here. I don't think 'Brokeback > Mountain' was meant to be about heroes of the gay liberation movement > or to create role models. I do think it was meant to convey the pain > that is inflicted by the closet mentality and the oppressive > environment that produces that mentality. The characters were not > meant to be necessarily admirable or heroic. They were portrayed, > above all, as human beings. Human beings with imperfections and flaws > like all humans have. Human beings who, whether because of > circumstances of environment or birth or societal attitudes or because > of their own fear and shortcomings (if you want to label it that way) > are unable to break out of the destructive pattern of denial and > concealment they find themselves in. As Ennis says, if you can't fix > it, you have to stand it. In Ennis's eyes, he and Jack can't fix it. > Whether that attitude is right or wrong is not the point, in my > opinion. The fact that these two men are made to *feel* forced to > stay in their respective closets and live frustrated, unfulfilled > lives is the point and the tragedy of 'Brokeback Mountain'. That and > the undeniable, unrelenting, indestructible nature of what they feel > for one another. > > I think it's wonderful and admirable that there have been people that > would not accept the status quo and chose to break out and make a > stand against it. Edward was most certainly one of them. Hell, I'm > one of them, too, as are Travis and Jerry and Smurf and probably every > gay and lesbian person on the JMDL. But that doesn't stop me from > feeling some empathy and sadness for those who have been unable to > find the courage or whatever it takes to do that. The fact that the > two characters in 'Brokeback Mountain' even acknowledged what happened > between the two of them and chose to continue to connect with one > another, even on the sly, given the type of people they were and the > place and the time was a huge act of courage, in my opinion. It also > speaks volumes against the argument that sexual preference is a > choice. Part of what impressed me about the movie was how > successfully it portrayed the irresistable force that Jack and Ennis > had to contend with. As much as they wanted to believe otherwise, > these two men were in love, each of them, with another man. > > Well I've already said more than I ever intended to say about this. I > hope it hasn't spoiled the film for anybody who hasn't seen it yet. I > still urge everybody to see it and make up your own mind about it. > > Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:03:19 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Favorite albums of 2005 Hi to all, I saw a few people listing their favorite albums of 2005 a few weeks back even though they're not Joni-related. I have recently completed an article for the next issue of a writers' journal that lists my top 13 (lucky?) albums of 2005, with reviews, but don't want to clutter up the JMDL with it for those who frown upon non-Joni posts. If anyone is interested, drop me an email and I'll paste my musings into a reply for you to check out. Kenny B (looking forward to seeing everyone in NYC for the show) NP: The White Stripes, "Take, take, Take" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:22:13 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: The Cowboys have no clothes - njc - -- Mark wrote: > Another voice chimes in. Bob Murphy or 'Smurf' is > another gay man who is > mostly deaf. Huh? I think a more apt description would be that I am mostly gay and partially deaf! This leads me to another point I'd like to make about this movie, and then I'll shut up. I didn't see either character as 100% gay. They were, like many people, complex and not so easy to pin labels on. I think Ennis's internalized homophobia was made even more painful for him by the fact that he had a burning physical attraction and deep love for Jack, not because he couldn't find a tearoom out West. Oddly enough, I saw this film in the same movie theater -- now a multiplex -- in which I had seen another 'cowboy' movie with gay content more than 35 years ago: "Midnight Cowboy." That movie was rated X when it first came out -- despite the fact that I don't think there's one swear word in it. I was too young to be allowed to buy a ticket, so I snuck in. "Midnight Cowboy" came out in 1969, I think, which would have placed it at 6 years into Jack and Ennis's ficticious relationship. In those days, even in liberal old Cambridge, Massachusetts, anything 'gay' was pretty much underground. There was no internet, no "WIll & Grace," no "Gay Eye." For just about any young person questioning his or her sexuality, there was only a kind of floundering around in desperate attempts to understand what the hell was going on. Homosexuality was still considered a mental problem, and would continue to be thought of as such by the American Psychiatric Association for another four years. Then there were "moral issues" that caused confusion and conflict. There were laws that forbade any hooking up. If you went to the library and looked up homosexuality, the Dewey decimal catalog's index cards probably would have directed you to well-worn books about ancient Greece that other poor, questioning souls had turned to over the years. There were no gay heroes, per se, because few books mentioned that Walt Whitman or Willa Cather or any of the hundreds of people we now know as gay had same-sex lovers. If you worked up the courage to go to a bar that was reputed to be gay you could be pretty sure that it would be seedy and perhaps even dangerous. The bar could be raided by the police. You could be harrassed, or even arrested. You risked "exposure," which brought with it some of humanity's greatest fears: banishment from family and community, loss of job, commitment to a mental institution, or even jail. 1969 also brought the Stonewall riots in New York, and the beginning of what has become massive change worldwide. But it happened very slowly in many areas of the globe, especially when one thinks about how short a human lifetime really is. So, given their -- and my -- time and place in the world, I found the story of Jack and Ennis overwhelmingly compelling and believable. - --Smurf __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL  Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:06:24 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) It's on the "Moonlight Mile" soundtrack--originally from His Band and Street Choir, which I only own on vinyl, or I'd send you an mp3. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Michael Paz Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:51 PM To: Joni Digest Subject: I'll Be your Lover Too (NJC) Does anyone have a copy of a song called "I'll Be Your Lover Too" by Van Morrison. I heard the song on a movie soundtrack and liked it so much I wrote down the name of the song, but I have not been able to find it anywhere. I have a lyric sheet for it and the melody was so easy I was playing it before the song ended on guitar. I don't even remember the name of the movie. Any help will be appreciate it. Best Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:23:40 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Boy on cover of DJRD Wes wonders: > Does anyone know who the kid is on the front of Don Juan's Reckless > Daughter? I used to think it was her son until I learned more about her. > What about the older guy (who I presume is Don Juan?). Thanks for any info. I am not sure about the kid, but if the "older guy" you're asking about is the black guy, that is actually Joni Mitchell in drag. Lori, still in Berkeley ~ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2006 #9 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------