From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #428 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 16 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 428 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- FW: RE: Paul McCartney. . land mines, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: We're in the semi-finals (njc) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: what was just a false alarm? ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Arrested Development NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Beck [Bob Muller ] Re: what was just a false alarm? [Bob Muller ] Start saving now! [Bob Muller ] Why love Joni? [" janine sherman" ] Re: Start saving now! [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: So - Why Do You Love Joni?:) ["Arkay O'Malley" Subject: FW: RE: Paul McCartney. . land mines, njc Bree meant to post this on the list: - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bree Mcdonough" To: scjoniguy@yahoo.com, treegreen1@hotmail.com, ldpeekn@yahoo.com Subject: RE: Paul McCartney. . land mines, njc Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:25:35 -0500 Hi Bob and All... When I say America is successful I'm looking at it from it's very early infancy..from the beginning.. not just from my own little prism or from the day I was born. We all have a tendency to look at things from a generational standpoint rather than from all of history. America's IDEA has been a success. In my eyes anyway. I would point out that millions upon millions try to get in this country every year....our borders are flooded with people knowing there are opportunities ...unlimited resources.... freedom. Yes...there have been bumps on the way and there isn't justice for everyone..BUT we strive for that .. Apparently you believe success is synonymous with perfection? Education: I don't even want to go there...it is a mess! Billions and billions (sounding like Carl Sagan here) have been pumped into schools...but I do know pumping billions and billions more... is not the answer. Why? Lack of discipline...no parental involvement...dumbing-down... (Marianne has told me horror stories about the education system in Rochester's inner city school district.) Here is a shocker: Every floor..which I believe there are three in her school.. have a guard. Taxes $ at work. And yes...they need these guards..I know Marianne has been threatened more than once. (multiply that by all city schools) School lunches: The children have the option of getting Pizza Hut pizza everyday. What's wrong with a parent packing a kids lunch? Oh no ..can't do that! A lot of things are now coming home to roost. It's Monday and I don't want to even think more about the things that are wrong ....but I do know a lot is right. Bree > >Successful how, Bree? Just wondering what your criteria is for this >statement. > >Certainly not in trade - our trade deficit is at a record high. We USED to >be successful in industry & manufacturing, now we import WAY more than we >ship out. > >Certainly not in fiscal responsibility - our budget deficit is also at a >record level, Bush has borrowed more from foreign governments than EVERY >PRESIDENT THAT CAME BEFORE HIM. > >Certainly not in ecological responsibility - the Bush years have rolled >back environmental progress about 35 years, and we're way behind most other >nations in environmental innovation. > >Certainly not in education and not even in infant mortality - things we >used to lead the world in but no longer, and falling father behind with >each new "reward the rich and f*ck the needy" bill that gets passed. > >Even in terms of how we're viewed by the rest of the world...remember after >9/11, when all the world wept with us, and that goodwill has been >squandered so that now our government is held in amazingly low esteem and >our leader is the world's most despised person. (Witness the "welcomes" he >got in Argentina and Brazil). > >And the list goes on and on....arrogance? I'd say we lead the world in that >category, but it ain't nothing to be proud of. And in Bush's defense, not >all of these problems are of his making...BUT he is to blame for either >ignoring them or exacerbating them. > >We are in desperate need of leadership; frankly I don't care what party can >provide it but we are in some serious doo-doo and the rah-rah jingoistic >"Go America" cheers will do nothing to help. Just like battling any kind of >problem, step 1 is admitting that you have one. > >Bob > >NP: Led Zeppelin, "Misty Mountain Hop" _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 04:44:31 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: djp discovers ANOTHER layer, was: what was just a false alarm? 100% JC hey guess what? I'd thought of something similar too, but I thought it was too crazy to mention, plus it doesn't address the "false alarm" issue. What I thought is that in part of it, she's in a finite universe. Joni in a ball. Inside a sphere. The sphere is the earth and its surrounding atmosphere. Earth and sky. Then there's another vision of her from the real, infinite (out there) universe that most of us know and love, looking down AT the orb/sphere that we are all in, in a way. So there's the view from inside a ball, and the view from outside the ball. She detaches and gains a whole new perspective. Of course the description "ball" makes it sound very claustrophobic, but its far as a flying human can reach. (without NASA help anyway). So its airy and light, but finite and with boundaries. Its our home! :) Em - --- "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" wrote: > djp, > > We've discussed "Amelia" many, many times over the years but I think > you've > discovered something that we've all missed. > > You said, > >I was struck by the formal > change of perspective from the first to the last verse - from looking > up at > the jets to looking down from the jets.> > > You may not even be aware of how cool that observation is! Lindsay > Moon > transcribed this for Les' JMDL Library: > > (MARCH 12, 1967 INTERVIEW WITH ED Sciaky): > > ED Sciaky: Want to do some of the requested songs? > > JONI MITCHELL: Let's see. What have we got here? "Night in the > City," > "Circle Game" -- oh, "From Both Sides, Now." I'm really glad > somebody > requested that, because that's a very new song, and I've been driving > everybody crazy by playing it -- > > ES: Which one? Which one? > > JM: -- twice and three times a night. It's called "From Both Sides, > Now." > > ES: I haven't heard that one. > > JM: I'll play that one first. It -- I should tell people a little > bit about > it. I was reading a book, and I haven't finished it yet, called > "Henderson > the Rain King." And there's a line in it that I especially got hung > up on > that was about when he was flying to Africa and searching for > something, he > said that in an age when people could look up and down at clouds, > they > shouldn't be afraid to die. And so I got this idea 'from both sides > now.' > There are a lot of sides to everything, and so the song is called > "From Both > Sides, Now." > > > > > We've all noticed that Joni conjures the past by mentioning the > Cactus Tree > Motel but I think you've unearthed another gem. In Amelia, I think > she's > building on "From Both Sides, Now", her first song inspired by the > duality > of flight / failure. > > Well done. Thanks and congratulations. > > All the best, > Jim > > Here's the post in its entirety: > > > From: djp > Subject: Re: what was just a false alarm? > > I love the dream image at the end: 747s over geometric farms. I've > always > loved the sense it gave me of solid, aloof, comprehensive, > perspective on > vast landscapes. (Of course, and again, a false alarm) > > As I was singing this in the shower yesterday, I was struck by the > formal > change of perspective from the first to the last verse - from looking > up at > the jets to looking down from the jets. Then I realized that nowhere > do > the lyrics really specify the perspective of the last vision. She's > not > really looking down, she's embodying the whole scene. anyway... > > I also find this song impossible to sing (not that that stops me). So > much > of the depth is in the instrumentals. > > > djp> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:41:03 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: When I've listened to everything else... ...I always come back to Joni and find solace and peace in her music and her lyrics. I like and enjoy so many artists. I appreciate them all for the individual things that they do. But I have yet to find a singer/songwriter that equals Joni's level. I was listening to my favorite CD this morning, Shadows and Light and was just amazed all over again at her lyrical and musical abilities. I made friends with a writer and we exchange emails on a regular basis. I'm about to hip her to Shadows and Light to get a sampling of Joni's artistry. She loves good lyrics. She has no idea!!!! (Smile) She's a huge, huge Michael McDonald fan (as am I) and she loved his duet with Joni in "Good Friends". What I've been trying to tell her is that the song is just an appetizer for the smorgasbord of depth of lyrical writing Joni is capable of. While I like "Good Friends", for me, it just doesn't come close to a song like "Amelia". Just my opinion though! But as I was listening this morning on the commute to work, her music just filled a void in my soul that no one else's music can fill. Teh combination of her lyrical as well as her musical writing talent can't be topped! When I've listened to everything else....I always come back to Joni... Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 07:19:59 -0800 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: Arrested Development NJC Bob M. wrote: <> I thought I was crazy, Bob, but of course we're the "same" crazy. Several people, my in-laws included, have gone on and on about how funny this show is. My husband and I rented it, watched -- as you did -- three episodes and said, 'well, I don't care if we ever see that again.' It happened to us with "Six Feet Under" and "Sex and the City," "Curb Your Enthusiasm" too. I'd have to go into a more thoughtful treatise on why, which I won't, but it's just my sense of humor I guess. Now don't *ever* take away my "Desperate Housewives," or Ricky Gervais' "The Office," but some people aren't into that at all. I now realize I watch *way* too much TV. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:10:44 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: We're in the semi-finals (njc) Oh David!!! This is terrific news! Just absolutely terrific news!!! I'm catching up on digests so my apologies!!!! I'm sure it is very meaningful to you! I am just so full of happiness and pride for you David!!! You are among greats! I will be rooting for you my friend!!! I am so happy for you!!!! Congratulations of making it this far!!!! Hooray!!!! Much respect and love! Sherelle David wrote: Judy and I found out late last night that our CD, "MEDLEYFYIN'--a unique tribute to Richard Rodgers" is one of 36 from which the final Grammy nominees will be chosen in the "traditional pop vocal" category. The second best thing about this, for me, is that we don't know any of the people who made the selection; it seems to have been based entirely on what's on the disc. Very meaningful to me...more so since others listed include Rod Stewart, Keely Smith, Carly Simon, Tony Bennett. Best thing: it's something Judy and I shared then and share now. We're happy! LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:34:12 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Don's Solo I have it if you need it. Let me know! Mark-Leon wrote: Does anyone have a copy of Don's Solo from Shadows and Light? Or the whole Japanese version of the album that includes Black Crow, Free Man In Paris and Don's Solo, zipped. I only have the Australian version and those tracks are missing. I have managed to download a poor copy of Black Crow and Free Man In Paris but, still missing Don's Solo. Please e-mail me off list if you can help. Thanks. Mark in Sydney. NP You Dream Flat Tires (Live At Red Rocks) - JM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:23:40 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: what was just a false alarm? Hi Bob, Yes! Yes! Yes! Flying too high emotionally is exactly what I get from these lyrics! She makes such a great analogy between the two. I think that is why the song touches me so much!!! Here is how I take Joni on Amelia; I feel that Joni related to Amelia's desire to soar high above the clouds and emulated her in some ways. Joni could relate to Amelia desires and need to fly. I never thought that Joni though Amelia was a foolish as a woman, but as a pilot not properly prepared for the undertaking. I saw a segment on the History Channel about how many men and women went before Amelia with the same undertaking also being ill-prepared. There were many more attempts made by both men and women which failed miserably prior to Amelia's effort. I think history records the attempts at world flying records at that time to be numerous and costly. No one took safety into account. It was like this "craze" had taken over everyone's mind at the time. That is what I think of when I think of Joni's "Like Icarus ascending on beautiful foolish arms" lyrics. That's my take anyway. Thanks for such interesting comments Bob!!! Love, Sherelle Bob wrote And to put an even finer point on it, not merely flight, but flying too high, attempting to over-reach other's demands, requests, and restrictions on you. (Flying too high, too close to the sun which melted the wax holding Icarus' wings together). Sounds like a minor point but I think it significant because I feel that Joni is using the comparison to (falsely) imply that Earhart attempted something that was beyond her station as a woman, and was punished for it. Bob NP: Los Lobos, "What In The World" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:36:41 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: djp discovers ANOTHER layer, was: what was just a false alarm? 100% JC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" > So there's the view from inside a ball, and the view from outside the > ball. She detaches and gains a whole new perspective. > Of course the description "ball" makes it sound very claustrophobic, > but its far as a flying human can reach. (without NASA help anyway). So > its airy and light, but finite and with boundaries. Its our home! Nicely said, Em. I think you're absolutely right on. Getting away abit from 'Amelia', she sums this all up with the image in the final verse of the final song on the album, 'Refuge of the Roads' and NASA does lend a hand: In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming from the moon And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all. There's the whole image in a nutshell. She's been up there in the clouds but now she's fallen to earth. And although those arms looked like a safe place to crash, it wasn't a good place to stay and now she's moving on: You couldn't see these cold water restrooms Or this baggage overload Westbound and rolling Seeking refuge in the roads The view from above is dis-orienting, distorting and scary. Maybe she's small down here on the ground and the gods can't see her from way up there. Maybe she's lost in the crowd or amongst the forests or the other vehicles travelling, travelling, travelling. But it's safe and it's real. Being grounded has its advantages and in someways allows a clear, if less spectacular view. She needs heart, humor, humility and human companionship to ground her. Also, it occured to me that she's really addressing two people or entities in 'Amelia'. At the Gorge in '98 she introduced the song by saying she's talking to a ghost. But I think she might also be addressing the part of herself that wants to be up there in those clouds with Amelia. But she's telling that self that it has failed to find whatever it is that's lacking in her life. But crashing down to earth into some guys arms hasn't done it either. All her quests turn out to be false alarms. I'm really enjoying reading everybody's take on 'Amelia'. It stimulates new thoughts and associations. Anybody care to relate this one to 'Judgment of the Moon and Stars'? It occured to me that there are connections. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:59:41 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: kindergarten, njc _treegreen1@hotmail.com_ (mailto:treegreen1@hotmail.com) writes: All I want are kinder gardens and psychedelic geometric farms. Grow them then. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:14:48 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re:dislikes list, njc A Repukelican wrote: American basher wants to know why we should hate us. (part of the blame America first crowd) (dislike...not as harsh as hate...) I'll start the list: oh....where do I begin... we are warmongers.... we are selfish..... we are imperialistic stupid cowboys.... egomaniacal uncultured.... loud.... Christian-Judea nuts..... suv driving gas-guzzling hedonists..... freedom-lovers... But most of all because AMERICA is SUCCESSFUL.... and you know there may be more.... Dear Propagandist, The so called American basher is an American so she has a right to speak out. Looking at and speaking about our downfalls, as well as our merits, is a freedom that keeps us accountable and balanced. American success is American suckcess according to our Nigerian priest. America has sucked resources from his country and does so from other poorer countries so he says. Love, An American ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:38:11 +1100 From: michael.cathyb@optusnet.com.au Subject: cd weeds [demime could not interpret encoding binary - treating as plain text] Hi ya All Long time JMDLer here but I haven't posted in ages. Time to start reading again. I am on a Bruce Cockburn list that trades in bootlegs. They have a system called weeding where it is like the old tape trees that we used to do on this list. The only difference is that it is done sort of one to one. Someone offers first one to ask gets it and promises to re offer. This is a weed. It seems to work well. Is there anything like this happening in Joni circles? I participated in quite a few tape tress many years ago but I am sure there is lots more out there now or at least that stuff has been converted to cd or dvd. Cheers Brownie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:10:36 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Beck From: Bob Muller > NP" Beck, "Debra" (sidebar - I've really become enamored with this guy's >work, he's definitely one of the best & most creative artists working today) > Here's that auld list synchronicity again.... I went out to celebrate a friend's graduation last night. We had a lovely Indian meal and some drink was taken, as you can imagine;-) One of her friends that i had not seen for many months was chatting with me and thanked me for recommending Joni to him (don't have a specific memory of this, but i am quite sure i happened, lol). He recently bought Blue and is quite enamoured. He is coming around to our way of thinking. He was talking about her originality as a songwriter and how she did things that were so unexpected that she lost a lot of her audience and airplay. We got talking about which artists today might be doing something as important as what Joni did in the 1970s. This is where Beck comes in. A few names were thrown around, but i did not really think that many of them were as innovative or original. Beck, Bjork, and SUfjan Stevens are among the more unique artists producing music today. I wonder how people like this will be seen in time. Does Joni know of their existence? GARRET NP- Sufjan Stevens, (something from his Illinois album with a very long title. Fecking amazing) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:15:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Arrested Development NJC I guess I've just reached an age where I don't have a problem with being honest about stuff...at the same time I respect that everyone likes different things & that's cool. The same co-worker recommended The Offic to me which I thought was great. And come hell or high water, on Sunday I watch The Simpsons and howl while my wife rolls her eyes and watches the clock waiting for 8:30 so she can watch more football. I would probably watch a lot more TV if I had the opportunity - I'm glad I don't, but I sure wouldn't mind watching Eva Longoria on a weekly basis. Bob NP: The Clash, "The Guns of Brixton" (which will always remind me of Lizzie & Jonifest '05) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Beck Well, surely the first two...she did a duet with Bjork at the Stormy Weather benefit and I think she's fascinated and intrigued by her individual spirit. Still hope to hear that someday. She & Beck were photographed together for Vanity Fair's Music issue a couple of years back, and Beck talked of giving her a hug. Beck's knowledge of music is amazing, like that of Elvis Costello. I think Joni likes Beck in the same context as Bjork. If only she would put 2 & 2 together and see that popular music can be more than girly guile and whiny white kids she'd get re-inspired. Bob NP: Joni & Pink Floyd, "Goodbye Blue Sky" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: what was just a false alarm? Just like love does, no? "The strongest poison and medicine of all" Thanks for your impressions as well, Sherelle - I've lost count of how many great Amelia threads we've had over the years; like I say, the song is so complex you can just keep peeling off the layers. Hope we continue to do so for years to come. Bob NP: Cowboy Junkies, "I'm So Open" Sherelle Smith wrote: Hi Bob, Yes! Yes! Yes! Flying too high emotionally is exactly what I get from these lyrics! She makes such a great analogy between the two. I think that is why the song touches me so much!!! Here is how I take Joni on Amelia; I feel that Joni related to Amelia's desire to soar high above the clouds and emulated her in some ways. Joni could relate to Amelia desires and need to fly. I never thought that Joni though Amelia was a foolish as a woman, but as a pilot not properly prepared for the undertaking. I saw a segment on the History Channel about how many men and women went before Amelia with the same undertaking also being ill-prepared. There were many more attempts made by both men and women which failed miserably prior to Amelia's effort. I think history records the attempts at world flying records at that time to be numerous and costly. No one took safety into account. It was like this "craze" had taken over everyone's mind at the time. That is what I think of when I think of Joni's "Like Icarus ascending on beautiful foolish arms" lyrics. That's my take anyway. Thanks for such interesting comments Bob!!! Love, Sherelle Bob wrote And to put an even finer point on it, not merely flight, but flying too high, attempting to over-reach other's demands, requests, and restrictions on you. (Flying too high, too close to the sun which melted the wax holding Icarus' wings together). Sounds like a minor point but I think it significant because I feel that Joni is using the comparison to (falsely) imply that Earhart attempted something that was beyond her station as a woman, and was punished for it. Bob NP: Los Lobos, "What In The World" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Start saving now! How would you like the original artwork from Court & Spark on your wall? Well, it could be yours, if....the price is right! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051114/nym256a.html?.v=1 Excerpt: "Just in time for the holiday shopping season, the BID 2 BEAT AIDS auction features: the original artwork from Joni Mitchell's "Court and Spark" album" Bob, wishing he was a billionaire so he could win it and give it to Patti P! NP: Lydia van Dam, "Shadows & Light" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:58:28 -0500 From: " janine sherman" Subject: Why love Joni? I love Joni for her authenticity, word choice, and imagery. Her expressions of joy, pain, hurt, diappointment, disgust, affection, loneliness, lust, love......et al are REAL. So real, she brings me to tears.In fact, she takes my breath away at times. and the music just FITS. Smiles to all, Janine NP: Magadalene Laundries ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:04:25 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Start saving now! Bob wrote: > How would you like the original artwork from Court > & Spark on your wall? > > Well, it could be yours, if....the price is right! > > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051114/nym256a.html?.v=1 > > Excerpt: > "Just in time for the holiday shopping season, > the BID 2BEAT AIDS auction features: the original > artwork from Joni Mitchell's "Court and Spark" > album" Ooooh, I want the 50 Cent tambourine! Does anyone else think that sounds really incongrous ;o)? Hell - wishing I had a billion dollars to buy the C&S artwork for ME! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:06:07 -0600 From: "Arkay O'Malley" Subject: Re: So - Why Do You Love Joni?:) because i CAN. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nuriel Tobias" To: Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: So - Why Do You Love Joni?:) > Well...It's not SUCH a bad question, is it?:) > > OK. > > I love her for giving me a promise of life and love. The gift of > salvation. A mircale in a world full of liars. > > Nuriel > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #428 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)