From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #416 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 6 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 416 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Chat, anyone? [Bob Muller ] Re: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers [Box of P] back to the fold JC [debra pease ] Re: back to the fold JC [JoniPD ] Hidden Agenda, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC #415 Kate Bush [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers [JoniPD <] Re: Honesty, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] RE: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers ["Richard] Re: NJC #415 Kate Bush ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Honesty, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: back to the fold JC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Honesty, njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: NJC #415 Kate Bush ["Mark Scott" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:05:07 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Chat, anyone? http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:12:18 +0000 From: Box of Paints Subject: Re: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers Patti get your kids out of that country now!!! The Coalition Forces will probably turn up at it's borders - it's another dictatorship in the making!!!! Let the era of the Bush Dynasty end with some sort of peace for mankind... But seriously... a San Franciscan friend of mine said that you could 'opt out' your American tax dollar away from the military and onto something else like education or environment. Not sure how her sister did it but it was a process that you had to register for... Sounds like another way for the Govt to monitor you... Anyway she was so fed up with being in Bushland that she is now living and teaching in the Philippines and no longer in SF. She felt so strongly about her tax dollar being spent on the military (yes, euphemistically called 'defence' ) that she no longer pays it and prefers to educate the young minds of Filipinos. Jamie Zoob On 05/11/05, Patti Parlette wrote: > Dear Joniamigos: > > Reading the news and it sure pisses me off today!!! If I'm feeling > contempt, I'm gonna tell it! > > From the Washington Post: "The Pentagon just launched a $10 million > marketing campaign aimed at encouraging parents to be more open to allowing > their children to enlist." > > I'm going to roar like forest fire! Out of the fire like Catholic saints > Comes Parlette and her deep complaint: > > How DARE they abuse MY tax dollars to convince ME to allow MY SONS to join > THEIR war machine!!!!! This administration never ceases to outrage me, but > this one is beyond the beyond. > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... A Case Of You , Joni Mitchell 1971 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:18:12 -0800 (PST) From: debra pease Subject: back to the fold JC Hi All, I am sure there are still a few of you out there who remembers me as Catgirl. I left the list several times and had returned a few months ago to lurk. I left before because my life was in such a mess and I felt miserable that I felt like I had nothing to offer and even got into a fight off list with Wally. Well, I was planning on writing a few months ago but was so busy with my wonderful new life that i never got around to it. I had been in a miserable relationship and trying to figure out how to get out of it. Well, as soon as I got out of it the door to a fabulous life opened for me and three months later was married. That was well over a year ago so Brian and Mags, YES, it does work. However, I got blindsided a few weeks ago with the death of my only child, Michael, age 22, in a car crash down in Florida. It has left me numb and so filled with pain and sorrow. So, I am back to being miserable again. I have missed so many of you and wanted to share my joy, now I have nothing to share but sorrow. We are having a benefit in memory of my son for my 4 year old grand daughter, Autumn in Lansdale, PA. I trimmed my finger nails and am back to playing guitar again which is a soothing balm for me. I plan on singing Michael from Mountains in dedication to him. When he was young, he would urge me to sing that song to him and would chime in. I am also playing Night Ride Home, another song that we would sing together. Memeories of us driving in the car with him by side and singing together, *I love the man beside me...* If anyone is local and would like to attend the event, please email me privately. I am sorry for such back in fourth commitment to the list and miss the conversations..... Hugs to all! Catgirl aka Debi And if you don't know where you're going, Any road will take you there - -George Harrison - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 01:41:35 +0100 From: JoniPD Subject: Re: back to the fold JC Oh, Debi, that's so Devastating! Michael from Mountains. Let me take my STAS album (always so close) and put it for you, for me, for everyone of us. Please, Debi, you've got always much to share. We want to hear from you, from your sorrow today, from your joy of other days (in the past, and in the Future) Well, you know, even if you don't have the strength/humour to write... it's good to know you're here) A big transoceanic hug to you, Catgirl. Emiliano NP: I Had A King debra pease wrote: >Hi All, >I am sure there are still a few of you out there who remembers me as Catgirl. I left the list several times and had returned a few months ago to lurk. I left before because my life was in such a mess and I felt miserable that I felt like I had nothing to offer and even got into a fight off list with Wally. >Well, I was planning on writing a few months ago but was so busy with my wonderful new life that i never got around to it. I had been in a miserable relationship and trying to figure out how to get out of it. Well, as soon as I got out of it the door to a fabulous life opened for me and three months later was married. That was well over a year ago so Brian and Mags, YES, it does work. However, I got blindsided a few weeks ago with the death of my only child, Michael, age 22, in a car crash down in Florida. It has left me numb and so filled with pain and sorrow. So, I am back to being miserable again. I have missed so many of you and wanted to share my joy, now I have nothing to share but sorrow. We are having a benefit in memory of my son for my 4 year old grand daughter, Autumn in Lansdale, PA. I trimmed my finger nails and am back to playing guitar again which is a soothing balm for me. I plan on singing Michael from Mountains in dedication to him. When he was ! > young, he > would urge me to sing that song to him and would chime in. I am also playing Night Ride Home, another song that we would sing together. Memeories of us driving in the car with him by side and singing together, *I love the man beside me...* If anyone is local and would like to attend the event, please email me privately. I am sorry for such back in fourth commitment to the list and miss the conversations..... >Hugs to all! >Catgirl aka Debi > > >And if you don't know where you're going, >Any road will take you there >-George Harrison > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 03:06:47 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Hidden Agenda, njc Catherine wrote : > It seems that every so often, some people feel the > need to stir up the shit. Maybe it's because they're > bitter, maybe it's because they're bored, or maybe > it's because they just don't get it. ..... >That's how it strikes me, but some people like to play >all innocent about it. (What, lil ol' me? try to start >something? Nothing could be farther from the truth - I >just wanted to have a little private conversation, >with 800 or so people...) Hi All, Sure I caught the bait, but don't blame Brian only. I was his accomplice . I guess we both like to stir shit, the only difference is I think Brian won't admit that he prefers his shit stirred by other people. That is his problem and I hope he faces it someday so he can stir up his own. As much as I do enjoy these discussions and find them intellectually challenging , especially when Dear Mike puts the finger where it hurts. Still i do < get it > that the List is not a middle east forum. Since I'm neither bored nor bitter, I try not to initiate these topics. At least not anymore since that fateful letter I posted in september 2001 which Azeem will never let anybody forget. I'd much rather talk about music related topics, but whenever there is a statement on the middle east I disagree with, if I happen to read it I'll comment. Maybe it was a coincidence but I did respond to Azeem's post a day or 2 before Brian's bait. I guess this crap is recurrent and it rises up every so often, here there and everywhere. So who's really to blame ? Laurent PS : Mike your post is great but I wish to clarify 1 point: the french riots are not done by < arab immigrants > but mostly by french born citizens of arab origin. That is to say the lack of integration problem is even worse. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 21:03:08 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: NJC #415 Kate Bush I wanted to check in on the Kate Bush thread.... First of all, I recommend her to us, appreciating Joni's work as we do . Check it out, at least. The compilation 'The Whole Story' is perhaps the best place to start, and there's an excellent video as well. (Kate is very visual/dramatic/dance, and this starts to show it off.) The most amazing concert footage is certainly that from Hammersmiith Odeon (in I think 79-80) part of her only tour ever. But I have story! Up in western Maine (Rangeley) there survives a museum honoring the memory of 'crackpot' natural scientist Wilhelm Reich, who moved to America in the 30's to escape, basically, all politics in Europe, left and right. The cover art of her compilation, and the video of the song 'Cloudbusting' and the song itself, all relate directly to Reich, and is set in place resembling, if not actually, Reich's castle/laboratory in the hill country of western Maine. In the video, Kate plays Peter Reich (the son, who is the narrative voice in the song) and Donald Sutherland (a curious, but not a bad cast) plays Reich. In the video of Cloudbusting, the 'men in black' are coming to take him away (1953, the McCarthy era) and he was imprisoned by the Feds for contempt of court for refusing to defend himself of charges that he violated interstate commerce statutes. HE DIED IN PRISION 18 MONTHS LATER. TONS OF HIS BOOKS WERE BURNED IN THE FRONT YARD OF HIS LABORATORY/HOME, none of which (the books) had anything to do with the litigation. The FDA wanted him squashed because he was distributing (for a pittance) devices he thought could cure cancer (and really often really seemed to). Booths one sat in. I don't know where Kate Bush picked up on this. For myself, I was intrigued by Reich's story perhaps 35 years ago. There are numerous (rather turgid) books by Reich still in print, most on post-Freudian psychoanalytic theory, but there is also an excellent bio, 'Fury on Earth' by Myron Sharaf. I believe the Cloudbusting apparatus in the Whole Story cover art is actually WWII pre-radar listening devices. They more or less resemble 'orgone projectors' which Reich designed and built to project earthly life energies into the atmosphere to affect weather patterns, create rainfall (which he did on numerous occasions) and stave off saucer attacks (hmmmm....) Anyway, Barb and I are Friends of the Wilhelm Reich Museum (Organon), and are personally acquainted with the Trustees. We have stayed on the grounds many times, in one or the other of Reich's cabins, But to come to the end of very long my story: On one visit years ago, we were paying a visit to the lab and we had the very 'edgy' experience of watching, for first time, the Kate Bush video of 'Cloudbusting' with the Trustee of the Reich Foundation, Mary Higgins, in Reich's laboratory, where the events took place. I recommend a visit here if you are ever in shouting distance of Rangeley, Maine, and enjoy a good conundrum, beautiful scenery, and reminder that truly evil repression of free inquiry and free thinking is not only in our most recent past, but also, here today. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 01:30:59 +0100 From: JoniPD Subject: Re: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers Oh! 10 millions on "that" marketing campaign. Patti, I always read your words just like the Blessed Truth from Above that they are, but this time I really *feel* your anger!!! and, Jamie... "Fiscal Objection" but only aimed at one objective? I mean: it's really possible to indicate in your taxes declaration that you don't agree supporting military costs and that your money should go to other social matters? Here on Spain they let us only decide if you want to support Catholic Church... or other social interest organizations. There's a strong campaign trying to separate the costs inverted on military investigation from the porcentage of the funds aimed at *real* I+D (Investigation & Development, it isn't it?)! and your friend going to Filipinas to *teach*... that's a good chance! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano (who remembers the time when the Objection, here, was against Military Service (that facked obligatory 19 months that male youngs had to serve in camps & "cuarteles". Fortunately your little espanyolito friend was declared "non valid"...) NW: Jeferson Airplane: The Crown of Creation Box of Paints wrote: Patti get your kids out of that country now!!! The Coalition Forces will probably turn up at it's borders - it's another dictatorship in the making!!!! Let the era of the Bush Dynasty end with some sort of peace for mankind... But seriously... a San Franciscan friend of mine said that you could 'opt out' your American tax dollar away from the military and onto something else like education or environment. Not sure how her sister did it but it was a process that you had to register for... Sounds like another way for the Govt to monitor you... Anyway she was so fed up with being in Bushland that she is now living and teaching in the Philippines and no longer in SF. She felt so strongly about her tax dollar being spent on the military (yes, euphemistically called 'defence' ) that she no longer pays it and prefers to educate the young minds of Filipinos. Jamie Zoob On 05/11/05, Patti Parlette wrote: Dear Joniamigos: Reading the news and it sure pisses me off today!!! If I'm feeling contempt, I'm gonna tell it! From the Washington Post: "The Pentagon just launched a $10 million marketing campaign aimed at encouraging parents to be more open to allowing their children to enlist." I'm going to roar like forest fire! Out of the fire like Catholic saints Comes Parlette and her deep complaint: How DARE they abuse MY tax dollars to convince ME to allow MY SONS to join THEIR war machine!!!!! This administration never ceases to outrage me, but this one is beyond the beyond. -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... A Case Of You , Joni Mitchell 1971 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:00:42 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Re: Honesty, njc In the beginning, there was intolerance. To name 2 varieties, intolerance of political threads, and intolerance of Julie's creative writing. Some wanted mandatory Joni Content in every post. Some wanted a moderated list to enforce these rules. For a long time my signature line was "tolerance, tolerance, tolerance, tol..." I'm not the boss, of course, but I hoped the JMDL would be kinda open, inspite of my own intolerance for some topics. As Joni said, >wide, like jazz> (Hi Patti) I recognize the negative connotation inside 'tolerance' but I like the word over 'acceptance' for 3 reasons. 1. It has an instantly recognizable antonym, 'intolerance'. 'Inacceptance' isn't in Merriam-Webster and 'rejection' isn't quite the same. 2. Webster's www.m-w.com thinks that 'patience' is a synonym for 'tolerance'. Patience has a positive connotation but it also has a passive one. I think of 'tolerance' as 'patience' that's been summoned by intellect then willed into action. 3. I like the fact that there's a bit of a negative connotation. It challenges the reader to think again, overlook a minor discomfort, to change the channel. i.e. "There's always the delete key." When I silently delete a post, it isn't because of 'acceptance'; it's 'tolerance'. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:06:14 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: njc, another round for these creeps and these poor soldiers This has been bugging me ever since this thread started: Isn't it "Let's have another round / for these freaks and these soldiers /Have another round for these friends of mine"? For Joni, freaks and soldiers were all friends. So, it's not "creeps." OK? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 19:22:28 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: NJC #415 Kate Bush - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Eisenhardt" > Up in western Maine (Rangeley) there survives a museum honoring the > memory of 'crackpot' natural scientist Wilhelm Reich, who moved to > America in the 30's to escape, basically, all politics in Europe, left and > right. > > > I recommend a visit here if you are ever in shouting distance of Rangeley, > Maine, and > enjoy a good conundrum, beautiful scenery, and reminder that truly evil > repression of > free inquiry and free thinking is not only in our most recent past, but > also, here today. > > ChuckE Here is a link to Reich's bio on the Reich Museum's website. My friend Melanie pointed it out to me after she gave me a copy of 'The Whole Story'. http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/biography.html It's a fascinating story. It really makes me wonder why this man was perceived as so threatening that our government felt the need to come down on him like a sledge hammer. 'Cloudbursting' is a great song. Very cool that you've been to Organon and that you support the museum, Chuck. What was the reaction to the video, by the way? Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:55:17 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Honesty, njc Jim wrote: When I silently delete a post, it isn't because of 'acceptance'; it's 'tolerance'. Hi Jim, For me it is "indifference" which in my dictionary means, nothing to say. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:50:09 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: back to the fold JC Oh Catgirl, I am so so sorry. rosie in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 20:58:58 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Honesty, njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" > In the beginning, there was intolerance. To name 2 varieties, intolerance > of political threads, and intolerance of Julie's creative writing. Some > wanted mandatory Joni Content in every post. Some wanted a moderated list > to enforce these rules. > > 3. I like the fact that there's a bit of a negative connotation. It > challenges the reader to think again, overlook a minor discomfort, to > change > the channel. i.e. "There's always the delete key." I don't understand your point here. I suppose it depends entirely on the context. I suppose the word can stand if you're talking about a heated political debate. The context I object to is when someone's race or gender or sexuality is the issue at hand. To say you tolerate something as fundamental as someone's gender or the color of their skin or their sexual preference is insulting, in my opinion. What is there about these things that anyone feels they have to tolerate? They just are. You don't tolerate or not tolerate facts. You either accept them or reject them. Climbing down off the soapbox now. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 20:59:59 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: NJC #415 Kate Bush - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Scott" > Very cool that you've been to Organon... That should have been Orgonon. Sorry about that. Mark E. in Seattle being somewhat anal tonight ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #416 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)