From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #406 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 29 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 406 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- "Early Joni Mitchell"? [Karen Marie Espeland ] Re: Desktop Pic ["Ric Robinson" ] RE: "Early Joni Mitchell"? ["Ross, Les" ] RE: "Early Joni Mitchell"? [Bob Muller ] Sox ["MIKE HICKS" ] Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? ["Michael Flaherty" ] Re: Good music in Buffalo, NY, NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Sox win!!!! (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? ["Mark Scott" ] Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? [Karen Marie Espeland ] dawn treader desk top [LCStanley7@aol.com] justice hopefully at last NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni in latest VF [Bob Muller ] My final word on the gun thing... NJC [Lucy Hone ] Dolly and BSN [Jerry Notaro ] ill be seeing you Part 3 njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: justice hopefully at last NJC ["gene" ] (njc) Robert is home!!! [littlebreen@comcast.net] Re: (njc) Robert is home!!! ["Cassy" ] RE: justice hopefully at last NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: justice hopefully at last NJC ["Cassy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:03:49 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: "Early Joni Mitchell"? Hi Joni-experts! What would you say "Early Joni Mitcell" would refer to? That is, until when is her material considered 'early', and what are the characteristics of her 'early' music? ("helium" voice, no band, etc...?) Is there a year, a concert, a certain voice quality or a song that marks the end of her 'early period'? For instance, can the Miles of Aisles concert in 1974 be seen her last 'early material' concert? 'Jericho' appeared on this concert - even though it didn't appear on DJRD until 1977. Can it still be considered an 'early' song? I hope some of you can help me with this! Thanks! Have a nice weekend, everyone! :) Karen Marie PS: Thank you for the beautiful desktop pictures, Mark! (By the way, what does 'dawntreader' mean?) And thanks for the Rosa Parks information - the articles and especially the song! I'll certainly use it if I start working as a teacher one day - Parks is compulsory knowledge for all Norwegian high school students. Thanks, Les, Mark & Bob! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:46:57 +0100 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Re: Desktop Pic Very nice indeed. Cheeky question: Could you make one 1280x1024 pixels? (So it fits my screen resolution better) Ric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark-Leon Thorne" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:00 AM Subject: Desktop Pic > Hi everyone. If you would like a copy of my first desktop picture, you > can get it here. > http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=39FPDL2MV4MWV0VF9BWPXPOXLD > > I hope to make a series of them. Watch this space. > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Happiness Is Easy - Talk Talk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:29:34 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: "Early Joni Mitchell"? Hi Karen In my opinion, her early period ended with the second album, Clouds. After that, she broadened her pallette musically within the songs and also by bringing in other musicians not just for accompaniment so much as for the music they were required to bring to the compositions. A greater degree of orchestration, if you will. There's was a component integrated with her songs; less tacked-on. It's my observation that even when she revisited earlier work in later performances such as are recorded in Miles of Aisles, that naive and innocent, almost engenue quality is gone replaced by something altogether more worldly. Compare, Cactus Tree in its original form with that appearing on MOA. I see Ladies of the Canyon, Blue and For the Roses as another disctinct period, one of transition, before Court and Spark and Hissing of Summer Lawns. Just in my opinion, of course. Les (London) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Karen Marie Espeland Sent: 28 October 2005 10:04 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: "Early Joni Mitchell"? Hi Joni-experts! What would you say "Early Joni Mitcell" would refer to? That is, until when is her material considered 'early', and what are the characteristics of her 'early' music? ("helium" voice, no band, etc...?) Is there a year, a concert, a certain voice quality or a song that marks the end of her 'early period'? For instance, can the Miles of Aisles concert in 1974 be seen her last 'early material' concert? 'Jericho' appeared on this concert - even though it didn't appear on DJRD until 1977. Can it still be considered an 'early' song? I hope some of you can help me with this! Thanks! Have a nice weekend, everyone! :) Karen Marie PS: Thank you for the beautiful desktop pictures, Mark! (By the way, what does 'dawntreader' mean?) And thanks for the Rosa Parks information - the articles and especially the song! I'll certainly use it if I start working as a teacher one day - Parks is compulsory knowledge for all Norwegian high school students. Thanks, Les, Mark & Bob! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: RE: "Early Joni Mitchell"? I second Les' proposition. And you have to recall that she had about 100 or so songs under her belt when she went in to record STAS. Had she been recording all along, Clouds would have been like her 6th record or so. But it's not just a matter of numbers - there are some definite stylistic changes that occurred from Clouds to LOTC, plus she had become more well-known and was performing in front of bigger audiences as well. Bob NP: Kaki King, "Sweet Juicy Little Bun" (Thanks Mona for turning me on to this great guitarist. Anybody else heard this?) PS - Happy Friday everyone!!! - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:04:58 -0400 From: "MIKE HICKS" Subject: Sox "Astros fans got out of Uribe's way so he could catch the foul ball". Do you think that happens in New York? Houston showed class throughout. Mike NP: Stills(not Stephen)-Yesterday Never Tomorrows ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:47:03 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? > I see Ladies of the Canyon, Blue and For the Roses as another disctinct > period, one of transition, before Court and Spark and Hissing of Summer > Lawns. And my favorite Joni period of all, probably because I was young and at an age when everything was all so new and exciting. Jerry "And if I cried a little bit when first I learned the truth, Don't blame it on my heart, blame it on my youth." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:28:21 -0500 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Bob Muller wrote: But >it's not just a matter of numbers - there are some >definite stylistic changes that occurred from Clouds to >LOTC, plus she had become more well-known and was >performing in front of bigger audiences as well. I agree with you all, and will just add that while Joni's lyrics were always personal, with LOTC they started to become far more introspective and less universal (an improvement IMO, but of course, not everyone's). This comes to the full with Blue. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:40:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Good music in Buffalo, NY, NJC > Are there any Buffalonians in the house? Yes, but now from Florida! Be happy to see her if she heads South! Jerry Beth Patterson is going to be at > Shannon Pub at 2250 Niagara Falls Blvd, Buffalo, NY from Nov 16-19. > > If you go and don't like her, I'll reimburse your cover charge. > > Jim > Dayton, OH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:54:58 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: Re: Sox win!!!! (njc) Until last year, everyone always said "Not in my lifetime." So, you never know. There was an add for Dunkin Donuts that played all winter here. It showed a man in a car at a stop light. Suddenly he raisies his fists and does a little upper body dance in his car. The voice over says "Every so often, it just hits you..." meaning you realize the Sox actually won. You'll have moments like that too. Enjoy it, my friend! lots of love, Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: revrvl@comcast.net To: "Anne Sandstrom" , joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Sox win!!!! (njc) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:30:08 +0000 Thanks, Anne! You hadn't won one since 1918, we hadn't won one since 1917 - so you know how it feels - beyond words. Today we live in a world in which the Chicago White Sox are World Series champs - who ever would have thought. Vince -- http://www.southsiders.net -------------- Original message -------------- > A big congratulations to Chicago - and especially Vince. (who, if it's anything > like it was in Boston last year, is delirious and bleary-eyed). I have one word > of advice, Vince. GO TO THE PARADE!!! > > Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!!!!! > > lots of love, > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:30:07 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Marie Espeland" > PS: Thank you for the beautiful desktop pictures, Mark! (By the way, > what does 'dawntreader' mean?) There is a book in C. S. Lewis's fantasy series 'The Chronicles of Narnia' called 'The Voyage of the Dawntreader'. In this book, the Dawntreader is a ship that Prince Caspian sails through many enchanted seas to the edge of the world. I'm fairly certain this is where Joni got the name of the song. Her references to 'a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams' and other sailing/sailor references on the 'Song to a Seagull' album were most probably inspired by David Crosby who had a sailboat at the time she met him and probably sails one to this day. Crosby produced 'STAS'. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:25:03 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: Re: "Early Joni Mitchell"? Thank you, Mark! This was clarifying - I made futile attempts to figure out what a Dawntreader was - googling and MW-ing - so thanks a lot for the information! It's a beautiful song, with a certain mystique, her voice is so careful, the guitar accompaniment a bit 'somber'... I just read about the song in the O'Brien-biography, where she refers to Crosby claiming to be the source of inspiration for the song. He even wanted to rename his schooner 'Dawntreader' - but Joni said that he was not the inspiration for it. 'I guess people identify with songs you wrote and think you wrote them just for them', Joni says. (Perhaps she would agree with Carly Simon...) But I think it's likely that being at sea with Crosby (I guess he would sometimes take her out sailing?!) inspired lots of songs. The sea-imagery is also apparent in Blue. But then, perhaps she had some brand new 'sea-input' from her journey through Europe... All the best, Karen Marie On 10/28/05, Mark Scott wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen Marie Espeland" > > > > PS: Thank you for the beautiful desktop pictures, Mark! (By the way, > > what does 'dawntreader' mean?) > > There is a book in C. S. Lewis's fantasy series 'The Chronicles of Narnia' > called 'The Voyage of the Dawntreader'. In this book, the Dawntreader is a > ship that Prince Caspian sails through many enchanted seas to the edge of > the world. I'm fairly certain this is where Joni got the name of the song. > Her references to 'a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams' > and other sailing/sailor references on the 'Song to a Seagull' album were > most probably inspired by David Crosby who had a sailboat at the time she > met him and probably sails one to this day. Crosby produced 'STAS'. > > Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:58:39 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: dawn treader desk top Hi Mark, Very beautiful! Thanks! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:19:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: justice hopefully at last NJC Last night I wept as the names (of mostly young men) scrolled across my tv screen- the names of some of the over 2,000 americans & their ages (the vast majority were young men in their twenties and many the age of my son) & their home towns. How do their mothers & fathers live with the unbelievable grief of loosing their babies? It is a nightmare scenario I never thought I'd live to see again. I remember when my son was born, with the end of the Vietnam war only a few years prior & the horrors of the draft still an open wound in our generation, how I worried about whether I should even put his name on a birth certificate (he was born at home with midwives) for fear of that day in the future when the past might repeat itself. These young people were indeed brave & heroic. I remember the idealism of that age. Many of them believing the words that their country's leaders were saying. Truth is also that many of them were poor and/or were looking at a future without much to offer them in the way of a job or a paycheck when the military offered them more money upfront (double digit in the thousands plus other incentives) to join. More money than they could hope to make in a year, probably more money than their parents made in a year. This morning I rejoice that their has been an indictment of I. Lewis Libby, chief of staff to the vp. I really was beginning to believe that the corruptness of this current administration was somehow impenetrable. I laughed out loud when I read Maureen Dowd's op ed piece a few days ago where she wrote, "The shocking thing about the trellis of revelations showing Dick Cheney, the self-styled Mr. Strong America, as the central figure in dark conspiracies to juice up a case for war and demonize those who tried to tell the public the truth is how unshocking it all is. It's exactly what we thought was going on, but we never thought we'd actually hear the lurid details: Cheney and Rummy, the two old compadres from the Nixon and Ford days, in a cabal running the country and the world into the ground, driven by their poisonous obsession with Iraq, while Junior is out of the loop, playing in the gym or on his mountain bike. Mr. Cheney has been so well protected by his Praetorian guard all these years that it's been hard for the public to see his dastardly deeds and petty schemes. But now, because of Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation and candid talk from Brent Scowcroft and Lawrence Wilkerson, he's been flushed out as the heart of darkness: all sulfurous strands lead back to the man W. aptly nicknamed Vice." The deep corruption of this administration that so many of us have known to be true has certainly taken an excruciatingly long time to come to light. Anyway we'll see. Some say this could be bigger than Watergate. I hope so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Joni in latest VF From the November 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, Sheryl Crow contributes an article called "25 For The Road" listing her top 25 road-trip albums. They don't seem to be in any order, not numbered or anything. Among them is Hejira, and here's what Sheryl says: "There are just not that many women singer-songwriter-poet-performing artists who consistently move me. Joni Mitchell has and still does. Her album Hejira in many ways changed how I look at music, from the standpoint of creating what I refer to as "cinematography" for each song - in other words, the way a song should come across visually. I studied the song 'Hejira' like a handbook because its imagery of what it feels like to always be leaving or coming home so heavily resonated with me. I have admired Joni Mitchell, particularly during her early years, for giving voice to what we all sense sometimes: that we are searching for what feels like home." Bob NP: Fleetwood Mac, "World Turning" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:21:13 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: My final word on the gun thing... NJC Hey Brian (see his post below) Not going to enter into debate here. but here is my reponse.......... For me I dont want anyone to have guns... Not you, not me, not anyone . The opinion expressed by that woman in her post is hardly coming from someone with an unbiased view of the world. She is clearly pro gun lobby..thinks we should all live in fear and clearly has no understanding that it is the almost 100% certainty that most people will not have a gun that keeps us happy to remain gun free. IT is precisely that everyone in your society has the right to hold arms for any reason they can think of..(lions and tigers and bears OH MY).... that perpertrates the almost 100% CERTAINTY that you are likely to be shot at by criminals and all citizens who are too afraid to go anywhere without a gun....... We in the UK live with the calm assuredness that we wont be shot on a daily basis....(in fact it does not enter our heads).....it is nice here, calm..... we dont even think about terrorist attacks that much..... when we are more likely to be attacked by a bomb.... but I was in London yesterday and it was lovely and happy and full of smiling calm people.........I digress........ You people of America (some of you certainly, but not all) live with the fear and almost sure certainty that you will possibly ............infact probably ..........WILL be shot by the guy next to you, the woman across the street the kid in the car driving past..... it makes you fearful, cynical and willing and keen to over arm yourselves because you dont trust that society is, for the main part 97% good...... of the 3% that will end up with some form of criminal record........ you have to remember that crime includes includes financial fraud, tax evasion, non payment of fines for things like parking tickets, fathers who dont support their kids, parents who dont send their kids to school, an 84 year old woman was sent to prison for being behind with her council tax..... Violent crime is a tiny proportion of criminal activity here...... it is not commonplace.. and rarely includes shooting..... Sadly there are a few more shootings (about 15 a YEAR?) and the whole fashion for guns and gang crime comes from the USA culture....... in films and TV programmes where guns and violence are shoved through our TV Screens... aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhh. In our society guns are only ever "ILLEGAL" owned outside of the law. Unless in the hands of Police officers, Army officers, MI5/6 or whilst people are out shooting game or clays (something I have done) They have to be kept locked away, separate from ammunition, kept at gun clubs and owned under a licence granted after police checks......Guns have no place in civil society out in the street or in the hands of mr and mrs average suburban liver...... we have no dangerous wild animals living around our houses....... Kids have always played with "guns" but why? Cowboy films? Herioc tales of derring doo ...... gangster films in the 50s......... WAR films,...........films that continue the stereotypes of manliness and being TOP DOG...... FILMS...TV... not the reality of faces blown away, brains all over the place, blood streaming down stairs..... its not pretend when someone dies... it is horrible to see gunshot wounds... people think that when someone shoots themselves in a suicide bid that there is a bit of a splatter on the wall....... your head blows open......... it is awful.... a girl I was at school with found her father when he had had enough..... 12bore shotgun under what was left of his chin with the top of his head in the far corner of the room..... it is terrible....... you can fire at pictures in shooting galleries with high powered guns and that feels like fun (been there and done it) BUT ITS NOT REAL.......... If they used real bodies you would not be so gung ho...... if you had to smell the blood and hear the flesh split you would not be so keen.. Most people who are pro-gun have never fired a shot in anger, they just like the thought of having the chance to just in case...... most people like me, who have fired guns, but are anti are very aware that they have a place ......but that is not in the street.. not in the hands of the Billy the Kid wannabes...... raised on a diet of Claude Van Damme and Shoot em up video games...... We have learneda national horror from the rare shootings here........, a 6 year old girl who was shot when her American father welched on a drug deal and he (and she) were shot by the dealers who were armed... the death of a dealer is no loss.... it is the innocents who should not be around guns.... most people who get shot here are criminals and they are shot by other criminals..(but its still not common).... its rare for guns to be used... knives feature too much and I would have them banned too.... Defence of your home here does not require guns........not here in the UK........ it requires good locks and self awareness. Maybe some CCTV and a good alarm system...... Society has always had criminals. Every country has its criminals.... Arming yourselves in the USA has not stopped crime, not stopped the death toll from shootings from rising, nor has it meant that guns are only held by honest and loyal citizens... It breeds a fear of people who are "other" who "dont fit" who are maybe foreign or even of a religion that you dont trust somehow... If I ever get shot it will be a dreadful mistake...... because I just do not expect to ever meet anyone who would have a gun they would want to use against me..... I would offer no resistance.... They can break in and take my stuff, I dont care, they can have it. That is what insurance is for..... It is almost certain that they will not take a gun to me.... Who might shoot you, not just you Brian, but anyone in the USA? Well with your gun laws.......it could be anyone, couldn't it? That is my response and I have no wish to discuss it further..NO GUNS FOR ANYONE...MAKE IT A CRIME TO POSSESS ONE...........take back your society from the gun lobby,,,, experience freedom that you have never known, cease living in fear......... you will love it and it will make you sleep well... Lucy in happy old England... Feeling a lot better for having vented. Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:38:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: UK Jmdlers only, please (njc) http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/10/31/do3102.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/10/31/ixop.html Hi everyone, I'm very interested in your feedback about this. Thank you in advance. Brian in south jersey usa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:51:23 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Dolly and BSN From the review of Dolly9s new cd in the St. Petersburg Times: If Parton truly loved Mitchell, she would have never reimagined the languorous, lovely Both Sides Now as a revved-up, banjo-led barnburner. Mitchell, with her now deep, throaty, rasp, could offer a more stirring rendition a capella. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:19:03 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: ill be seeing you Part 3 njc Jerome Barde- A piano instrumental. Very good work. Soothing and quiet. Kate Smith- Have never heard Kate sing anything but 'God Bless America." She can really sing. Gives the lyrics, the melody, and the meaning of the song complete attention and does a job that is close to perfection. Adds the wistfulness, the angst of being separate from her love, and one can almost see her smile as she sings the words and looks forward to the reunion. Liza Minnelli- Almost sounds as if she has been drinking too when she starts out. She doesn't have the pipes she used to have and I am a big Liza fan. She brings it back though and have to give her credit because she does it accapello. By the end, she has lit the Liza magic. Liberace- The vocal version. This guy was really talented. The more I hear of him, the more I appreciate him and can't understand all the derision directed his way or the jokes made about him. Well, maybe I can seeing as how the world thinks. He does a fine job, very heartfelt. mack- enjoying listening to different performers put different twists on different tunes. Tod says I am very odd. Maybe so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:52:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: My final word on the gun thing... NJC Hello Lucy, and everone, I'm *not* looking for a debate. I readily acknowledge I am vastly outnumbered here on the JMDL with regard to the rights endowed by the Second Amendment to the US Constitution. Not a problem in this particular venue. I'm not looking for a fight, or even an argument. I was simply interested in UK jmdlers' feedback to the article for which I posted the link. And yours, Lucy, was the first one received. Thank you very much for taking the time to write. I neglected to ask for responses OFFLIST so as not to add traffic here that might serve to annoy a number our friends. My bad. Other UK jmdlers, I *am* interested in getting your feedback if you would be so kind. Please write offlist. I'm sure some blood pressures will appreciate it. Have a good weekend everyone, Brian in south jersey usa - --- Lucy Hone wrote: > Hey Brian (see his post below) > > Not going to enter into debate here. but here is my reponse.......... < long response acknowledged and snipped here> my original post: > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:38:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Brian Gross > Subject: UK Jmdlers only, please (njc) > > http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/10/31/do3102.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/10/31/ixop.html > > Hi everyone, > > I'm very interested in your feedback about this. > Thank you in advance. I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all --Joan, with the wisdom of the ages __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:06:39 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: guns guns guns NJC well Lucy, Im not "from" the UK, but Im "of" the UK, so perhaps I'll chime in here and say brava and kudos for speaking your peace on this issue. I think that someone might suggest to that person who posted that he might consider signing up for the NRA discussion list, where he might find a few more sympathisers. Pretty out of line for a Joni Discussion List topic, but hey.. doesnt their constitution also allow freedom of speech. what do I know? Im a peaceable Canadian bloodywell happy to be, just so. Mags. np: Find the Cost of Freedom by you know who. ~be the change you want to see in the world...Ghandi~ let us go then you and i ~t.s.eliot~ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:29:56 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: justice hopefully at last NJC hi kate, sometimes the system really works. but an indictment is a long ways from a conviction. in between those two (indictment/conviction) you can bet a lot of deals are going to be made. it would really be a surprise to see anything happen to cheney or rove. thank you president bush, you really got us into very fine mess. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:19 AM Subject: justice hopefully at last NJC > Last night I wept as the names (of mostly young men) scrolled across my tv > screen- the names of some of the over 2,000 americans & their ages (the > vast > majority were young men in their twenties and many the age of my son) & > their home towns. How do their mothers & fathers live with the > unbelievable > grief of loosing their babies? It is a nightmare scenario I never thought > I'd live to see again. I remember when my son was born, with the end of > the > Vietnam war only a few years prior & the horrors of the draft still an > open > wound in our generation, how I worried about whether I should even put his > name on a birth certificate (he was born at home with midwives) for fear > of > that day in the future when the past might repeat itself. > These young people were indeed brave & heroic. I remember the idealism of > that age. Many of them believing the words that their country's leaders > were saying. Truth is also that many of them were poor and/or were > looking > at a future without much to offer them in the way of a job or a paycheck > when the military offered them more money upfront (double digit in the > thousands plus other incentives) to join. More money than they could hope > to make in a year, probably more money than their parents made in a year. > This morning I rejoice that their has been an indictment of I. Lewis > Libby, > chief of staff to the vp. I really was beginning to believe that the > corruptness of this current administration was somehow impenetrable. I > laughed out loud when I read Maureen Dowd's op ed piece a few days ago > where > she wrote, > "The shocking thing about the trellis of revelations showing Dick Cheney, > the self-styled Mr. Strong America, as the central figure in dark > conspiracies to juice up a case for war and demonize those who tried to > tell > the public the truth is how unshocking it all is. It's exactly what we > thought was going on, but we never thought we'd actually hear the lurid > details: Cheney and Rummy, the two old compadres from the Nixon and Ford > days, in a cabal running the country and the world into the ground, driven > by their poisonous obsession with Iraq, while Junior is out of the loop, > playing in the gym or on his mountain bike. Mr. Cheney has been so well > protected by his Praetorian guard all these years that it's been hard for > the public to see his dastardly deeds and petty schemes. But now, because > of > Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation and candid talk from Brent Scowcroft > and > Lawrence Wilkerson, he's been flushed out as the heart of darkness: all > sulfurous strands lead back to the man W. aptly nicknamed Vice." > The deep corruption of this administration that so many of us have known > to > be true has certainly taken an excruciatingly long time to come to light. > Anyway we'll see. Some say this could be bigger than Watergate. I hope > so. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:18:41 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: (njc) Robert is home!!! Hi, gang, To my and the entire hospital staff's atonishment, Robert's progress has been so rapid that they could see no reason not to let him come home with me today (previous estimate had been Monday morning)!!! He's still very weak, and I have to see to it that he sticks to a careful regimen, food-, rest-, and meds-wise. But he's here, thank god. (For those of you to whom this will mean anything, Robert's first CD4 reading at the hospital was 6, and the most recent is 2 -- we're thinking of calling them Itchy and Scratchy or Terrence and Phillip, but we're entertaining other suggestions; if you have one or more, mail me off-list.) Again, thanks for all the wonderful poisitive thoughts and prayers y'all sent this way -- it means a lot to both of us. love, Walt - -- Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:44:37 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: (njc) Robert is home!!! <<< He's still very weak, and I have to see to it that he sticks to a careful regimen, food-, rest-, and meds-wise. But he's here, thank god. >>> Nurture, nurture, nurture. I know you have it in you... all that love needs an outlet. I will continue to channel reiki energy in your direction. Warm Regards, Cassy NP: Alice Peacock - Northern Star ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:28:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: justice hopefully at last NJC Hey gene, yeah I know the difference between indictment & conviction but today I celebrate the indictment... I agree it would be a surprise for cheney or rove to be touched but I don't think anyone really knows yet how it is all going to play out... >hi kate, sometimes the system really works. but an indictment is a long ways from a conviction. in between those two (indictment/conviction) you can bet a lot of deals are going to be made. it would really be a surprise to see anything happen to cheney or rove. thank you president bush, you really got us into very fine mess. later gene< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 02:27:00 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: justice hopefully at last NJC Kate wrote: <<< Last night I wept as the names (of mostly young men) scrolled across my tv screen- the names of some of the over 2,000 americans & their ages (the vast majority were young men in their twenties and many the age of my son) & their home towns. How do their mothers & fathers live with the unbelievable grief of loosing their babies? It is a nightmare scenario I never thought I'd live to see again. >>> I try very hard to stay away from political discussions but when sons and daughters are put in harms way for "causes loosely defined" (from a poem I wrote in 1972) I fear for my own son, now age 16. I am gratified to see that the latest polls show that Bush's ratings are at an all-time low. My son's paternal relatives are all of military inclination, most notably his grandfather who served as Sargeant Major of the Old Guard in Washington D.C. but my son has no leanings in that direction at all, he is a musician and a creative soul. I cannot imagine him in any military situation, especially if the draft is reinstated and he is inducted. I fear for him in that situation, not only for what could happen in military operations but also for what might happen to his psyche. I empathize with you, Kate, I too get emotional watching all the bang bang ketchup colour stories. Warm Regards, Cassy NP: Phil Ochs - Universal Soldier ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #406 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)